From biodiesel at yovo.info Sat Sep 1 00:41:33 2007 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:41:33 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bill was signed!! In-Reply-To: <20070831.225116.3213.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20070831.225116.3213.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <46D8ED7D.5010404@yovo.info> PRAISE THE LARD! Senate bill 1272 rocks! Thanks for the heads-up Mr. T. Jurgen Mr. Turner wrote: > Wooo Hoooo! the governor signed the bill S1272 > > http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2007/Bills/Senate/HTML/S1272v6.html > _____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find experienced pros to help with your home improvement project. > http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifhPhDfZtcgyVjj76OOmjqMvqyD48zT0R3QF65qTvuCYKiuW/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From wrenchwench at blast.com Sat Sep 1 11:00:41 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:00:41 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Ambassadors of Rock in New York Event to Launch The Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance Message-ID: <6304F941-D449-4418-A40D-D809CA0BB04D@blast.com> HARD ROCK?S 2007 AMBASSADORS OF ROCK TOUR IS ?ON THE ROAD AGAIN? WITH MUSIC LEGEND WILLIE NELSON Ambassadors of Rock in New York Features Willie Nelson & Friends, Including Hosts Woody Harrelson and Daryl Hannah Event to Launch The Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance Orlando, Fla., August 21, 2007 ? Hard Rock International is bringing its global Ambassadors of Rock Tour to the ?crossroads of the world? with an ?outlaw country? twist. Known for his amazing string of hits, legendary artist Willie Nelson and friends will bring an unforgettable night of music to Hard Rock Cafe New York in Times Square on Monday, September 10, 2007. Dedicated to its ?Save the Planet? motto, Hard Rock?s Ambassadors of Rock in New York will also act as the official launch of the Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance, a non-profit organization founded by Willie?s wife Annie Nelson, biodiesel advocate Daryl Hannah and members of the sustainable biodiesel community, to promote sustainable biodiesel practices, including the harvesting, production and distribution of biodiesel fuels. Hard Rock?s September 10th event will make every effort to be eco-friendly, and ?do the right thing,? including an offering of food from family farms, using recycled materials for invitations and marketing materials, and more. The exclusive V.I.P. event, benefiting the Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance, will be hosted by award-winning actors Woody Harrelson and Daryl Hannah, and will include a green carpet, featuring special appearances by several of Nelson?s closest friends and family. That evening, Willie will also be joined his sons? band, 40 Points, and his daughter?s band, Folk Uke, for a special live performance. ?Some of the biggest names in music have become part of our Ambassadors of Rock program over the last two years ? from The Who and M?tley Cr?e to Aerosmith, The All-American Rejects and P!NK. We are thrilled that Willie Nelson joins the exclusive list of Hard Rock ?Ambassadors,?? said Sean Dee, Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer, Hard Rock International. ?We are also proud to support Willie?s Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance and take action as a company towards a cleaner, greener Earth.? - more - Ambassadors of Rock ? Add One As a songwriter and performer, Nelson has won Grammy? Awards, a President's Merit Award and Lifetime Achievement Award. His credits include "Georgia On My Mind," "Mammas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Cowboys," "On The Road Again," "Heartbreak Hotel" and "Stay A Little Longer.? More importantly, his work with important global charities, including Farm Aid and recently the Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance, has generated millions of dollars and worldwide exposure for worthwhile causes. The day before his Hard Rock appearance, Willie will also be performing at Farm Aid 2007: A HOMEGROWN Festival at Randall?s Island in New York City, alongside several other musicians and supporters of the cause. Save The Planet! Committed to its ?Save the Planet? motto, Hard Rock is partnering with Willie Nelson to create an environmentally-friendly event ? no easy task for a location in Times Square. Efforts include locally grown and organic food from family farms and recycling the event decor. In lieu of gift bags, which can lead to more waste, Hard Rock will make a donation to the Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance on behalf of each guest in attendance that evening. In addition, moving forward, New York-based Tri State Biodiesel will collect waste grease from Hard Rock Cafe New York to be recycled into clean, renewable Biodiesel fuel, in order to fuel up vehicles on the road ? like Willie Nelson?s famous tour bus! ?Hard Rock is exploring all possible sustainable innovations for this event, from renewable energy use to waste reduction and responsible purchasing,? said Corina Beczner, green event specialist for the project. ?Hard Rock?s dedication to the Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance is a great start, and supporting local, family farms and clean energy solutions through this event further demonstrates the brand?s commitment and integrity in saving the planet.? Rockin? for a Great Cause ? and a Chance for Fans to Attend this Amazing Event! As part of Ambassadors of Rock in New York, Hard Rock will host an online auction to directly benefit the Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance. Fans will be able to visit www.hardrock.com to bid on: ? Two pairs of tickets to Ambassadors of Rock event in New York on September 10th to see Willie Nelson and friends perform. The winning bid gets two tickets to the event, and unless you know someone in Willie?s camp ? this is the only way to be part of this memorable night! (Dates of auction: August 22, 2007 through September 2, 2007) - more - Ambassadors of Rock ? Add Two ? A custom-made Hard Rock Ambassadors of Rock Gibson guitar, autographed by Willie Nelson and friends at Ambassadors of Rock in New York. The highest bidder will receive the Willie Nelson- autographed Ambassadors of Rock guitar, along with photo documentation of Willie and friends signing the guitar at the event. (Dates of auction: September 26, 2007 through October 7, 2007) Making Rock History! In addition to an unforgettable performance, Willie Nelson will also donate pieces of memorabilia to Hard Rock. Following the concert, Willie will donate his stage clothes from the event, including his signature red bandana and custom-made New Balance? ?Willie Nelson? sneakers, which will be permanently added to Hard Rock?s world-famous memorabilia collection. Hard Rock?s Ambassadors of Rock Tour For the second year, Ambassadors of Rock will bring together Hard Rock Cafes, Live venues, Hotels and Casinos around the globe to help spread the universal language of rock. Nelson, one of the country?s most iconic music stars, joins an eclectic group of artists on Hard Rock?s 2007 Ambassadors of Rock Tour, including Aerosmith, Peter Gabriel and Crowded House in London; All-American Rejects in Orlando co-sponsored by Pepsi Smash; and P!NK at the Dubai tour stop. Additional artists will be announced with events scheduled for Hollywood (Fla.), Las Vegas, Tokyo, Caracas, Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Singapore and Madrid. About The Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance The Sustainable Biodiesel Alliance, Inc. (?SBA?) is a non-profit organization created to promote sustainable biodiesel practices, including the harvesting, production and distribution of biodiesel fuels. The ultimate goal is to create best practices standards and protocols for verifying that all points in the production and distribution chain are in compliance with the SBA?s certification standards. Those receiving SBA certification will be supported by the SBA through on-going education campaigns that will include outreach programs and maps identifying the locations of the production and distribution points. For further information, please visit www.sustainablebiodieselalliance.com. - more - Ambassadors of Rock ? Add Three About Farm Aid Farm Aid 2007: A HOMEGROWN Festival will take place on Sunday, September 9 at Randall?s Island in New York City. The day-long festival will promote food from family farmers and raise funds for Farm Aid?s work throughout the year to strengthen family farm agriculture. The show will feature great talent from a variety of musical genres, including Farm Aid board members Willie Nelson, Neil Young, John Mellencamp and Dave Matthews, joined by Tim Reynolds, as well as Gregg Allman, The Allman Brothers Band, Counting Crows, Matisyahu, Guster, Derek Trucks Band, Warren Haynes, Supersuckers and Montgomery Gentry. Willie Nelson, Neil Young, John Mellencamp, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds and The Allman Brothers Band are scheduled to play full festival sets. About Hard Rock International With 123 high-energy Hard Rock Cafes and eight Hotels/Casinos in 46 countries, Hard Rock International is one of the world?s most globally recognized brands. Beginning with an Eric Clapton guitar, Hard Rock owns the world?s greatest collection of music memorabilia, which is displayed at its locations around the globe. Hard Rock is also known for its collectible fashion and music-related merchandise, Hard Rock Live performance venues and an award-winning website. In addition to the two flagship Seminole Hard Rock Hotels and Casinos in Tampa and Hollywood, Fla., Hard Rock Hotels/Casinos are located in Las Vegas, Biloxi, Orlando, Chicago, Pattaya and Bali, with San Diego scheduled to open later in 2007. Additional hotel and casino projects have been announced in Palm Springs and Macau, scheduled to open in 2009. Hard Rock International, Inc. is owned by Seminole Hard Rock Entertainment, Inc. For more information on Hard Rock, visit www.hardrock.com. # # # From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Sep 4 16:48:05 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:48:05 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: News Release: Biofuels Center of North Carolina Established References: <0983CAA89BF030428777A9BE2D230F1C02AD8E2F@RTP-MAIL-01.ncbiotech.org> Message-ID: <3ED82A04-EC33-4E1D-BC12-EEEAFB260A4B@biofuels.coop> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Robin Deacle" > Date: September 4, 2007 12:51:14 PM EDT > To: > Subject: News Release: Biofuels Center of North Carolina Established > > N.C. TAKES BIOFUELS LEADERSHIP, ESTABLISHES NEW ENDEAVOR WITH $5 > MILLION STATE APPROPRIATION > OXFORD, N.C., Sept. 4, 2007 ? Catalyzing an entire new industry for > North Carolina is the long-term task of the newly established > Biofuels Center of North Carolina, which moved to reality today > following its first board of directors meeting. > > Funded with a $5 million initial appropriation from the 2007 > General Assembly, the non-profit corporation will in coming years > implement North Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership. > The Plan was mandated by the General Assembly in 2006 and presented > to its Environmental Review Commission in April of this year. > > The Plan offers a challenging goal: by 2017, 10 percent of liquid > fuels sold in North Carolina will come from biofuels grown and > produced within the state. > > At current usage rates, production of almost 600 million gallons > will be required. > > "Meeting this bold goal will require enormous commitment, new > resources, and untold acres of energy crops across the state," said > W. Steven Burke, chair of the Biofuels Center?s board of directors. > "Meeting the goal will also yield a sector of impact statewide, > particularly for rural and agricultural communities. How often does > a state have opportunity to create a large new industry with > widespread benefit?" > > The Strategic Plan was shaped by a 24-member steering committee and > more than 80 public and private participants from across North > Carolina. Six months of discussion and ideas yielded 9 strategies > to ensure that the state gains biofuels capabilities and benefit > over the next 10-15 years. Key among the strategies was > establishment of a neutral catalyzing and assisting agency to work > with researchers, growers, production facilities, educators, and > policy-makers. > > Establishment of the Biofuels Center of North Carolina moves that > key strategy to quick reality. The non-profit corporation will be > headquartered at the newly established North Carolina Biofuels > Campus in Oxford. The site is the former U.S. Department of > Agriculture tobacco research facility that was turned over in 2005 > to the North Carolina Department of Agriculture and Consumer > Services. Goal: By 2017, North Carolina will supply 10 percent of > its liquid fuel needs with biofuels produced in the state. > > Agriculture Commissioner Steve Troxler and his department see > biofuels as an increasingly important sector for the state?s > agricultural economy and have designated the campus for biofuels > development activities. > > "The Biofuels Center is the right idea at the right time," said > state Rep. Jim Crawford, representing House District 32 and > Granville County and a lead advocate for the Center. "It?s valuable > for Granville County and people in Oxford but also for people > across North Carolina. After all, we all need more biofuels." > > Though many states are aggressively pursuing biofuels development, > North Carolina is believed to be the first to establish both a > central targeted agency and a central campus for support and > activities. The catalyzing agency is patterned on the state?s bold > leadership move in 1984 to establish the North Carolina > Biotechnology Center in nearby Research Triangle Park. > > The Strategic Plan focuses the state?s biofuels future on products > made not from important food and feed crops such as corn, but > rather from cellulosic feedstocks such as wood waste, animal > wastes, and high-yield plants and grasses. With its rich forestry > and agricultural resources, North Carolina is well suited to > develop and grow such biomass. > > Initial board members of the Biofuels Center are: > > W. Steven Burke, Chair, senior vice president, corporate affairs > with the North Carolina Biotechnology Center > Billy Ray Hall, president of the North Carolina Rural Economic > Development Center > Ghasem Shahbazi, Ph.D., professor and director of bioenvironmental > engineering at North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State > University > Norris Tolson, Secretary and Treasurer, president and CEO of the > North Carolina Biotechnology Center > Johnny Wynne, Ph.D., dean of the College of Agriculture and Life > Sciences at North Carolina State University > The Board will rapidly gain an executive director and small staff > for the Biofuels Center. Programs will be established to fund > research on crops strategically important across the state, to > strengthen growing and production capacity, to initiate workforce > training programs, and to address public awareness, policies, and > federal funding. > > "The growing biofuels industry offers enormous opportunities for > creating new jobs and decreasing America's dependence on foreign > energy," said Congressman G.K. Butterfield, whose 1st District > includes Granville County. > > "It also provides the potential for strengthening our farms and > rural communities by offering them a strong, sustainable and > important long-term stake in America's energy strategy. The > Biofuels Center of North Carolina will help to ensure that these > possibilities and opportunities become realities." > > A complete copy of Fueling North Carolina?s Future: North > Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership is available on > the Web at www.ncbiotech.org/biofuels/. > > # # # > > Contact: Steven Burke, chairman, Biofuels Center of North Carolina > and senior vice president of corporate affairs at the North > Carolina Biotechnology Center, 919-549-8819. > > If you no longer wish to receive news releases from the > Biotechnology Center, please reply to this message. > > Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us Wed Sep 5 01:00:57 2007 From: lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us (lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 01:00:57 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Larry M Petrovick/CDS/Wake County is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 09/03/2007 and will not return until 09/10/2007. I will respond to your message when I return on 09/10/07. From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Sep 6 21:31:26 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:31:26 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: North Carolina Biodiesel Quality Workshops References: <0983CAA89BF030428777A9BE2D230F1C02379C77@RTP-MAIL-01.ncbiotech.org> Message-ID: > > The following message has been forwarded to you on behalf of the > Triangle Clean Cities Coalition, Centralina Clean Fuels Coalition, > and Piedmont Biofuels. Contact information for the workshop is > located within the message. > > > > > North Carolina Biodiesel Quality Workshops > > Come to either workshop to learn about creating and maintaining > biodiesel that meets national quality standards. > > September 18, 2007 ? Central Carolina Community College, Pittsboro > October 24, 2007 ? Cherry Research Center, Goldsboro > > Both workshops will run from 9:00 am ? 4:00 pm. > > Topics include: > ? Overview of current ASTM specifications for biodiesel > > ? Analytical methods for quality control > > ? Proper handling, safety, and use guidelines in both > production and distribution operations > > ? Biodiesel Production Training > > ? Policy and Economic Considerations > > ? Hands on quality testing demonstration > > > Cost: $20, includes materials and lunch > > > Space is limited and pre-registration is required. To register, > please go to www.trianglecleancities.org/workshop.shtml > > Brought to you by the Triangle Clean Cities Coalition, Centralina > Clean Fuels Coalition and Piedmont Biofuels with sponsorship from > the US Department of Energy, National Biodiesel Foundation, North > Carolina Soybean Producers Association, and NC BioAg Network. > > > Tobin L. Freid > Project Coordinator for Energy and Environment > Triangle J Council of Governments > (919) 558-9400 > > -- Triangle J Council of Governments is a Best Workplace for > Commuters -- > > > > > > > > From shiftlink at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 22:13:40 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:13:40 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Need an Engine Message-ID: <4c758e6d0709061913n670b7ce2vda96410055152de@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I scored a Diesel Rabbit today, but the engine is Kaput. If anyone has one that isn't Kaput, I'm in the market. I was thinking I'd rebuild this one, but swaping them out gets me there faster. Thanks in Advance, Cameron Conover From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Mon Sep 10 14:42:51 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:42:51 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] PR: Algae Production System Announced Message-ID: Dear Friends, Can anyone offer insights into this? Opinions? Thanks, John John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Diversified Energy Introduces Innovative Algae Production System to Address Global Biofuel Oils Shortage and Curtail Carbon Emissions GILBERT, Ariz., Aug. 28 /PRNewswire/ -- Diversified Energy Corporation has formed a partnership and licensing arrangement for a patent pending, breakthrough algae production system invented by XL Renewables, Inc. The approach, called Simgae(TM) (for simple algae), utilizes common agriculture and irrigation components to produce algae at a fraction of the cost of competing systems. At 1/2 - 1/16th the capital cost, profitable oil production costs at $0.08 - $0.12/pound, and low operations and maintenance requirements, the resulting system will offer the biofuels industry access to cheap and readily available oils and starches for the production of biodiesel, ethanol, and other renewable fuels. Under an exclusive worldwide license, Diversified Energy(R) will provide systems engineering and project management to commercialize the technology. Algae has received substantial attention as a high-promise source of biofuel oils to alleviate the supply shortages and high prices of traditional feedstock sources. Since the feedstock inputs can contribute 60 - 80% of the production cost of biofuel, keeping the feedstock cheap and readily available is critical to the renewable fuels industry. Algae has been shown to produce 30X more oil and require 1/100th the water per acre when compared to traditional crops. In addition, the carbohydrate and protein components of algae can be used for a multitude of other purposes including ethanol production, feed, fertilizer, etc. Algae requires very little care to grow, only needing sunlight, water, carbon dioxide (CO2), and basic nutrients. Its ability to ingest carbon dioxide and produce oxygen is particularly attractive to curtail carbon emissions. Given all these benefits widespread algae production has yet to materialize. The reason for the lack of market adoption is centered upon the significant capital and operations and maintenance costs to build and maintain the algae systems. These costs have been the Achilles' heel for investors and developers. Typical architectures rely on a series of rigid and complex frameworks and structures. As a consequence, capital costs can be anywhere from $100k's to over $1M/acre. When factoring in the thousands of algae acres required for any meaningful volume of oils, these up-front costs can kill a project. Simgae(TM) offers a complete paradigm shift by delivering an agriculture- based solution to largescale algae production. Instead of creating elaborate architectures designed to push yield to its utmost maximum, the proposed system makes cost and simplicity the driving variables. The approach can be thought of as the "farmer's solution" to algae production. The system uses unique thin walled polyethylene tubing, called Algae Biotape(R), similar to conventional drip irrigation tubes. The patent pending biotape is laid out in parallel across a field. Under pressure, water containing the necessary nutrients and a small fraction of algae are slowly introduced into the biotape. Carbon dioxide is injected periodically and after roughly 24 hours the flow leaves the Algae Biotape(R) with a markedly greater concentration of algae than was started. All the supporting hardware components and processes involved in Simgae(TM) are direct applications from the agriculture industry. Re-use of these practices avoids the need for expensive and complex hardware and costly installation and maintenance. The Simgae(TM) design is expected to provide an annual algae yield of 100 - 200 dry tons per acre. Capital costs are expected to be approximately $45k - $60k (a 2 - 16 times improvement over competing systems) and profitable oil production costs are estimated at only $0.08 - $0.12/pound. These oil costs compare to recent market prices of feedstock oils anywhere from $0.25 - $0.44/pound. Jeff Hassannia, Vice President of Business Development for Diversified Energy, commented, "The renewable fuels industry is in dire need of feedstock oils that are low priced and readily available. Algae is the perfect solution to this challenge, while at the same time helping to clean up the environment. Simgae(TM) will finally offer a simple, yet elegant means of bringing algae to the market at very reasonable costs. We couldn't be more thrilled to be working with XL Renewables to commercialize this proprietary breakthrough technology." Ben Cloud, President and COO of XL Renewables, remarked, "We've kept the veil on Simgae(TM) until we were absolutely confident in its performance and economics. This is the right technology at the right time to deliver algae biomass for use as a feedstock for biofuel oils, super-antioxidant animal feeds, starches to the ethanol industry, and many other uses. All of this is packaged in a cost effective, easy to install and maintain system that also cleans dirty water and converts carbon dioxide to oxygen through photosynthesis. We are thrilled to be partnered with Diversified Energy to introduce Simgae(TM) on a global basis." The team is currently conducting a demonstration of the technology in Casa Grande, Arizona. Continued testing and system optimization is expected to occur through 2008. More information about Simgae(TM) can be found at http://www.diversified-energy.com/simgae. About Diversified Energy Corporation: Headquartered in Gilbert, Arizona (a suburb of Phoenix), Diversified Energy Corporation (http://www.diversified-energy.com) is a privately held alternative and renewable energy company focused on maturing innovative technologies, developing commercial energy projects, and providing engineering services support to project developers. Principal areas of expertise include biofuels, gasification, and algae production. About XL Renewables, Inc.: Based in Phoenix, Arizona, XL Renewables, Inc. (http://www.xlrenewables.com) is developing an integrated biorefinery located in Vicksburg, Arizona, 100 miles west of Phoenix in La Paz County. The $260 million project integrates a modern dairy operation with a biofuels plant to produce ethanol, biodiesel, milk, animal feed and compost fertilizer. The integrated biorefinery utilizes the dairy manure, along with other waste streams to provide 100% of the power, heat and steam needs of the project and significantly lower production costs. XL Renewables, Inc. developed Simgae(TM) and Algae Biotape(R) for the economical production of algae biomass to be used as an alternative feedstock to corn for biofuels production. Media Contact: Jeff Hassannia 480-507-0297, ext 105 jeff.hassannia at diversified-energy.com Website: http://www.diversified-energy.com/ Website: http://www.xlrenewables.com/ From shiftlink at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 15:09:22 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:09:22 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] PR: Algae Production System Announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c758e6d0709101209u511a3c3pfd232a39a10b61d@mail.gmail.com> Sounds like someone has cracked the nut. On 9/10/07, John Bonitz wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Can anyone offer insights into this? Opinions? > > Thanks, > > John > > John Bonitz, > Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate > Southern Alliance for Clean Energy > PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 > Phone: 919-545-2920 > Mobile: 919-360-2492 > bonitz at cleanenergy.org > > > > Diversified Energy Introduces Innovative Algae Production System to Address > Global Biofuel Oils Shortage and Curtail Carbon Emissions > > GILBERT, Ariz., Aug. 28 /PRNewswire/ -- Diversified Energy Corporation has > formed a partnership and licensing arrangement for a patent pending, > breakthrough algae production system invented by XL Renewables, Inc. The > approach, called Simgae(TM) (for simple algae), utilizes common agriculture > and irrigation components to produce algae at a fraction of the cost of > competing systems. At 1/2 - 1/16th the capital cost, profitable oil > production costs at $0.08 - $0.12/pound, and low operations and maintenance > requirements, the resulting system will offer the biofuels industry access > to cheap and readily available oils and starches for the production of > biodiesel, ethanol, and other renewable fuels. Under an exclusive worldwide > license, Diversified Energy(R) will provide systems engineering and project > management to commercialize the technology. > > Algae has received substantial attention as a high-promise source of biofuel > oils to alleviate the supply shortages and high prices of traditional > feedstock sources. Since the feedstock inputs can contribute 60 - 80% of the > production cost of biofuel, keeping the feedstock cheap and readily > available is critical to the renewable fuels industry. Algae has been shown > to produce 30X more oil and require 1/100th the water per acre when compared > to traditional crops. In addition, the carbohydrate and protein components > of algae can be used for a multitude of other purposes including ethanol > production, feed, fertilizer, etc. Algae requires very little care to grow, > only needing sunlight, water, carbon dioxide (CO2), and basic nutrients. Its > ability to ingest carbon dioxide and produce oxygen is particularly > attractive to curtail carbon emissions. > > Given all these benefits widespread algae production has yet to materialize. > The reason for the lack of market adoption is centered upon the significant > capital and operations and maintenance costs to build and maintain the algae > systems. These costs have been the Achilles' heel for investors and > developers. Typical architectures rely on a series of rigid and complex > frameworks and structures. As a consequence, capital costs can be anywhere > from $100k's to over $1M/acre. When factoring in the thousands of algae > acres required for any meaningful volume of oils, these up-front costs can > kill a project. > > Simgae(TM) offers a complete paradigm shift by delivering an agriculture- > based solution to largescale algae production. Instead of creating elaborate > architectures designed to push yield to its utmost maximum, the proposed > system makes cost and simplicity the driving variables. The approach can be > thought of as the "farmer's solution" to algae production. The system uses > unique thin walled polyethylene tubing, called Algae Biotape(R), similar to > conventional drip irrigation tubes. The patent pending biotape is laid out > in parallel across a field. Under pressure, water containing the necessary > nutrients and a small fraction of algae are slowly introduced into the > biotape. Carbon dioxide is injected periodically and after roughly 24 hours > the flow leaves the Algae Biotape(R) with a markedly greater concentration > of algae than was started. All the supporting hardware components and > processes involved in Simgae(TM) are direct applications from the > agriculture industry. Re-use of these practices avoids the need for > expensive and complex hardware and costly installation and maintenance. > > The Simgae(TM) design is expected to provide an annual algae yield of 100 - > 200 dry tons per acre. Capital costs are expected to be approximately $45k - > $60k (a 2 - 16 times improvement over competing systems) and profitable oil > production costs are estimated at only $0.08 - $0.12/pound. These oil costs > compare to recent market prices of feedstock oils anywhere from $0.25 - > $0.44/pound. Jeff Hassannia, Vice President of Business Development for > Diversified Energy, commented, "The renewable fuels industry is in dire need > of feedstock oils that are low priced and readily available. Algae is the > perfect solution to this challenge, while at the same time helping to clean > up the environment. Simgae(TM) will finally offer a simple, yet elegant > means of bringing algae to the market at very reasonable costs. We couldn't > be more thrilled to be working with XL Renewables to commercialize this > proprietary breakthrough technology." Ben Cloud, President and COO of XL > Renewables, remarked, "We've kept the veil on Simgae(TM) until we were > absolutely confident in its performance and economics. This is the right > technology at the right time to deliver algae biomass for use as a feedstock > for biofuel oils, super-antioxidant animal feeds, starches to the ethanol > industry, and many other uses. All of this is packaged in a cost effective, > easy to install and maintain system that also cleans dirty water and > converts carbon dioxide to oxygen through photosynthesis. We are thrilled to > be partnered with Diversified Energy to introduce Simgae(TM) on a global > basis." > > The team is currently conducting a demonstration of the technology in Casa > Grande, Arizona. Continued testing and system optimization is expected to > occur through 2008. More information about Simgae(TM) can be found at > http://www.diversified-energy.com/simgae. > > About Diversified Energy Corporation: > > Headquartered in Gilbert, Arizona (a suburb of Phoenix), Diversified Energy > Corporation (http://www.diversified-energy.com) is a privately held > alternative and renewable energy company focused on maturing innovative > technologies, developing commercial energy projects, and providing > engineering services support to project developers. Principal areas of > expertise include biofuels, gasification, and algae production. > > About XL Renewables, Inc.: > > Based in Phoenix, Arizona, XL Renewables, Inc. (http://www.xlrenewables.com) > is developing an integrated biorefinery located in Vicksburg, Arizona, 100 > miles west of Phoenix in La Paz County. The $260 million project integrates > a modern dairy operation with a biofuels plant to produce ethanol, > biodiesel, milk, animal feed and compost fertilizer. The integrated > biorefinery utilizes the dairy manure, along with other waste streams to > provide 100% of the power, heat and steam needs of the project and > significantly lower production costs. XL Renewables, Inc. developed > Simgae(TM) and Algae Biotape(R) for the economical production of algae > biomass to be used as an alternative feedstock to corn for biofuels > production. > > Media Contact: Jeff Hassannia > > 480-507-0297, ext 105 > > jeff.hassannia at diversified-energy.com > Website: http://www.diversified-energy.com/ > Website: http://www.xlrenewables.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Tue Sep 11 14:55:59 2007 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:55:59 -0700 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Mississippi, Nov 3-4: Biodiesel Class and Equipment Building/Barbeque Message-ID: <46E6E4BF.6080003@localb100.com> Biodiesel Homebrewing/Equipment Building Class with Maria 'girl Mark' Alovert of http://biodieselcommunity.org Seminary, MS (near Hattiesburg) November 3-4 10-5 Hosted by Mississippi Biofuels Group (www.msbiofuels.com) with an optional barbeque/additional equipment build time on Saturday night 5 pm till?? camping is available at the site Building a processor: You may build your own processor to take home during the class. Parts are available at a discount from www.b100supply.com after you register with me. During the class we only build a processor, but you can get b100supply's processor-wash tank kit and assemble the wash tank later. Additional equipment build after class: If you'd like to build additional equipment such as a wash tank, a methanol recovery condensor, mistwash or bubble wash equipment, or a Turk burner, we can work on those on Saturday night, and will have a small MIG welder to do modifications to metal wash tanks (metal are preferable over plastic ones that can't be modified easily). The barbeque is a potluck/bring your own grillables sort of event, and we'll work on the hosts' system as well as any other gear you'd like to work on. To arrange for getting parts for this 'extracurricular' after-class equipment build, please contact me with 'Mississippi equipment barbeque' in the subject line and we'll talk about your equipment and where to get the parts. You do not have to attend the class to attend the barbeque. to register: see http://girlmark.com/tour ************************* Biodiesel is a clean-burning diesel alternative made from any natural oil or fat. It can be made easily in a backyard or garage environment. In this class, you will learn how to make your own clean burning diesel fuel alternative and how to build the processing equipment to make it at home safely... This is a comprehensive, hands-on workshop on making homebrew biodiesel fuel out of waste restaurant fryer oil, which can usually be acquired for 'free'. Most of the class focuses on the chemistry behind biodiesel homebrewing and quality control, and we'll be doing a lot of 'lab' work making test batches, and variations on different formulas. The feel of the class is a bit like the mad scientist version of "high school chem lab" (hopefully without the spitballs and giggling)- you'll be doing hands-on lab exercises in small groups, which will teach you how to make and troubleshoot your home batches- and we'll be learning the chemistry basics that underlie making good quality fuel for your vehicle. This is a fast-paced class, and I strongly recommend that you read this website first: http://www.biodieselcommunity.org to get a background for this subject. The class will also cover equipment and system construction. We will discuss heat exchangers, solar thermal heating of the process, some minimal methanol recovery information, and other equipment topics. This class is two hours longer than usual so as to cover more information, as I will not be doing an advanced class in this part of the country anytime soon. To register, please see the online registration at http://www.girlmark.com/tour From mattr at biofuels.coop Wed Sep 12 17:43:06 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:43:06 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Seminar: Diesel Technology for Renewables Message-ID: Seminar: Diesel Technology for Renewables Saturday, September 1st, 2007 (Events) On Sept. 14th from 6-8pm, we will host a seminar on biodiesel engine technology at our Grand Opening, conducted by Rich Cregar, instructor at Wake Tech. This Seminar is will explore the history and technology associated with the Diesel engine and provide students with both hands on experience and a theoretical approach to maintaining and operating diesel equipment on renewable fuels. Handling and use of biodiesel and other bio-fuels will be covered thoroughly. 1) Examine the drivers that are leading our society to the use of Biofuels; ?Energy Security ?Petroleum supply and demand ?Classic emission issues ?Global warming?Carbon issues 2) Examine the development of modern Diesel technologies: ?Brief history of the Diesel Engine ?Brief introduction to principles of Diesel combustion ?High pressure (common rail) fuel systems ?Air control and delivery (Turbos and related technology) ?Emission systems 3) Examine renewable alternatives: ?Biodiesel ?SVO?s ?Synthetic fuels (DiMethyl Ethers and F-T) 4) What we need to do to improve our future (General Discussion) Richard E. Cregar, Instructor, Wake Technical College, 9101 Fayetteville Rd., Raleigh, N.C. 27603 Rich Cregar joined the National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium (NAFTC) as the National Instructor in July, 2004. He joined the Faculty of Wake Technical College, An NAFTC National Training Center, in the summer of 2006. Mr. Cregar represents Wake Tech at nationwide conferences, seminars, and training events, such as the SAE Hybrid Technology Symposium. He has presented papers at the 2006 SAE World Congress and the 2007 North American Council of Automotive Teachers (NACAT) convention in Long Beach, Ca. He has also served as co-chair of the Committee on Hydrogen Vehicle Safety of SAE. For several years, Mr. Cregar was Technical Training Manager at Leith Mercedes-Benz in Raleigh, NC. In this role, he trained apprentice technicians to staff dealerships. This position involved hands-on management and technical troubleshooting of a franchised high-line workshop. In a career spanning more than 30 years, Mr. Cregar has served as a Team Leader and Site Manager for Universal Technical Institute in Houston, TX, and Allentown, PA; as Operations Manager for the Bosch Technical Hotline in St. Paul, MN; and as Service Manager for a number of automotive dealerships. Mr. Cregar holds the following certifications from the Institute for Automotive Service Excellence (ASE): Master Automotive Technician, Advanced Level Specialist in Automobile Advanced Engine Performance, and Alternative Fuels Technician. He is a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), International Automotive Technicians? Network (IATN), and North American Council of Automotive Teachers (NACAT). Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From mattr at biofuels.coop Wed Sep 12 18:49:51 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:49:51 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Seminar: Diesel Technology for Renewables References: Message-ID: <22D83A17-5F67-44D7-8D32-A97BB6F58F41@biofuels.coop> This event is being put on by Bull City Biodiesel. Contact Marc Dreyfors at marc at theforestfoundation.org for more info. Begin forwarded message: > From: Matthew Rudolf > Date: September 12, 2007 5:43:06 PM EDT > To: BIG List > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Seminar: Diesel Technology for > Renewables > > > Seminar: Diesel Technology for Renewables > > Saturday, September 1st, 2007 (Events) > > On Sept. 14th from 6-8pm, we will host a seminar on biodiesel engine > technology at our Grand Opening, conducted by Rich Cregar, instructor > at Wake Tech. This Seminar is will explore the history and technology > associated with the Diesel engine and provide students with both > hands on experience and a theoretical approach to maintaining and > operating diesel equipment on renewable fuels. Handling and use of > biodiesel and other bio-fuels will be covered thoroughly. > > 1) Examine the drivers that are leading our society to the use of > Biofuels; ?Energy Security ?Petroleum supply and demand ?Classic > emission issues ?Global warming?Carbon issues > > 2) Examine the development of modern Diesel technologies: ?Brief > history of the Diesel Engine ?Brief introduction to principles of > Diesel combustion ?High pressure (common rail) fuel systems ?Air > control and delivery (Turbos and related technology) ?Emission systems > > 3) Examine renewable alternatives: ?Biodiesel ?SVO?s ?Synthetic fuels > (DiMethyl Ethers and F-T) > > 4) What we need to do to improve our future (General Discussion) > > Richard E. Cregar, Instructor, Wake Technical College, 9101 > Fayetteville Rd., Raleigh, N.C. 27603 > > Rich Cregar joined the National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium > (NAFTC) as the National Instructor in July, 2004. He joined the > Faculty of Wake Technical College, An NAFTC National Training Center, > in the summer of 2006. Mr. Cregar represents Wake Tech at nationwide > conferences, seminars, and training events, such as the SAE Hybrid > Technology Symposium. He has presented papers at the 2006 SAE World > Congress and the 2007 North American Council of Automotive Teachers > (NACAT) convention in Long Beach, Ca. He has also served as co-chair > of the Committee on Hydrogen Vehicle Safety of SAE. > > For several years, Mr. Cregar was Technical Training Manager at Leith > Mercedes-Benz in Raleigh, NC. In this role, he trained apprentice > technicians to staff dealerships. This position involved hands-on > management and technical troubleshooting of a franchised high-line > workshop. In a career spanning more than 30 years, Mr. Cregar has > served as a Team Leader and Site Manager for Universal Technical > Institute in Houston, TX, and Allentown, PA; as Operations Manager > for the Bosch Technical Hotline in St. Paul, MN; and as Service > Manager for a number of automotive dealerships. > > Mr. Cregar holds the following certifications from the Institute for > Automotive Service Excellence (ASE): Master Automotive Technician, > Advanced Level Specialist in Automobile Advanced Engine Performance, > and Alternative Fuels Technician. He is a member of the Society of > Automotive Engineers (SAE), International Automotive Technicians? > Network (IATN), and North American Council of Automotive Teachers > (NACAT). > > Matthew Rudolf > Piedmont Biofuels > www.biofuels.coop > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From dlane20 at nc.rr.com Thu Sep 13 09:55:42 2007 From: dlane20 at nc.rr.com (dlane20 at nc.rr.com) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 9:55:42 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sourcing biodiesel fuel hose in the triangle area Message-ID: <1895482.811021189691742482.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web09-z01> My name is David and I'm in the middle of an engine swap where I'm installing a Nissan SD22 diesel engine into a 1984 Nissan 720 4x4 that originally had a 2.4 liter gas engine. I'm halfway through the wiring and will need to start the plumbing process soon. I'm having difficulty in finding hose that is biodiesel compliant, but does not cost an arm and a leg, or leaves me with many extra feet of unused hose from having to order a large quantity. I want to see if anyone knows where I can purchase about 10' of 1/4" ID hose and 10' of 3/8" ID hose. Napa sells a Gates RLA type hose for $2.09 a foot for 1/4" and $2.89 a foot for 3/8", but I have to order both in 25' rolls since its not a commonly sold hose. I can order polyurethane fuel hose from www.procycle.us which will work, but I'd rather not use it and the largest size they have is 5/16" which may pose a problem, and I still have to order 25' rolls. If I can't find where I can purchase hose by the foot only without a minimum order quantity, then I may just have to order the 25' rolls of Gates hose, and I'd be willing to sell some of the extra hose that I won't use to someone if anyone is interested. So please get in touch if you know of a solution for my fuel hose needs or if you could use some biodiesel safe hose for your current vehicle or project. If you're interested in seeing my swap, here's a link where I'm posting information about what I'm doing. Hopefully it will be done in a few weeks...at least I keep saying that to myself! http://www.hotrodcoffeeshop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44 Thanks!! David Lane From shiftlink at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 10:04:18 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:04:18 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sourcing biodiesel fuel hose in the triangle area In-Reply-To: <1895482.811021189691742482.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web09-z01> References: <1895482.811021189691742482.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web09-z01> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0709130704p8987772tad12d23c0d9140e6@mail.gmail.com> Autozone has goodyear highpressure fuel injection hose in 3/8" I think, you can buy it by the foot, and it'll will handle biodiesel. Don't know about the 1/4" Or buy the rolls and sell your leftovers, to me, maybe? I could just put them in stock here at the shop. Cameron Conover www.raceconover.com On 9/13/07, dlane20 at nc.rr.com wrote: > My name is David and I'm in the middle of an engine swap where I'm installing a Nissan SD22 diesel engine into a 1984 Nissan 720 4x4 that originally had a 2.4 liter gas engine. I'm halfway through the wiring and will need to start the plumbing process soon. I'm having difficulty in finding hose that is biodiesel compliant, but does not cost an arm and a leg, or leaves me with many extra feet of unused hose from having to order a large quantity. > > I want to see if anyone knows where I can purchase about 10' of 1/4" ID hose and 10' of 3/8" ID hose. Napa sells a Gates RLA type hose for $2.09 a foot for 1/4" and $2.89 a foot for 3/8", but I have to order both in 25' rolls since its not a commonly sold hose. I can order polyurethane fuel hose from www.procycle.us which will work, but I'd rather not use it and the largest size they have is 5/16" which may pose a problem, and I still have to order 25' rolls. If I can't find where I can purchase hose by the foot only without a minimum order quantity, then I may just have to order the 25' rolls of Gates hose, and I'd be willing to sell some of the extra hose that I won't use to someone if anyone is interested. > > So please get in touch if you know of a solution for my fuel hose needs or if you could use some biodiesel safe hose for your current vehicle or project. If you're interested in seeing my swap, here's a link where I'm posting information about what I'm doing. Hopefully it will be done in a few weeks...at least I keep saying that to myself! http://www.hotrodcoffeeshop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44 > > Thanks!! > > David Lane > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Sep 14 11:42:20 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 11:42:20 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Please Support Clean Energy Development Funding in the 2007 Farm Bill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear friends of farm-based energy, Please take a moment to click and send a fax. Thanks! John Bonitz Support Clean Energy Development Funding in the 2007 Farm Bill The Senate will soon take up the 2007 Farm Bill renewal and address the clean energy programs in the Energy Title. Please ask your Senators to support substantial and consistent federal investments in the five-year Farm Bill. Their vote can make a huge difference in advancing renewable energy and energy efficiency on family farms in the Southeast. Please send a free fax now to your senators at http://actionnetwork.org/ct/s1NDqOS1rX83/ruralenergy to encourage them to support robust Farm Bill clean energy funding for a wide variety of clean energy technologies. This link also explains the issue in more detail, describing what we're requesting, how tiny a fraction of the Farm Bill budget it is, what has been accomplished so far, and how much more we can do. Please join us in this effort to help farmers while helping the environment, boosting the rural economy, enhancing national security, and mitigating climate change. http://actionnetwork.org/ct/s1NDqOS1rX83/ruralenergy Thanks to the Environmental Law & Policy Center for leading this campaign. Sincerely, John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From mbcahoon at blast.com Sat Sep 15 10:10:46 2007 From: mbcahoon at blast.com (Mary Beth Cahoon) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:10:46 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 1984 Mercedes 300S Turbo Diesel Message-ID: <9DAB5365-0722-40F0-8ACF-C91E9BCC5DD4@blast.com> 1984 Mercedes 300S Turbo Diesel for sale. Working sunroof, cruise control. Recent brakes replacement (including rotors). Power windows, sunroof, steering. Includes original stereo; new stereo available (not installed) w/CD player for no extra charge (requires an interface for installation). Engine runs well; oil leak at differential seal (normal for the age of the car). A recent mechanic's assessment is available. Odometer stopped at 209K; estimated 230K. Maintenance records for the duration of my ownership. This car is a sound running vehicle; it performs well on long trips (including mountains), gets excellent gas mileage (38-40 mpg interstate). The body and interior are in fair condition. The paint is sound, although faded on the top of the sunroof. The A/C needs replacing; and there is a rear suspension repair that I would recommend for comfort, though it's not a safety issue. (This part can be obtained through import salvage at about $150; labor cost undertermined.) Asking price $3000. This asking price is FIRM. Please call between 10am-9pm for Sage; feel free to leave a message if you get the voicemail. 919-704-6493 From MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 15:48:41 2007 From: MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com (Mark Ambrose) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:48:41 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed In-Reply-To: <46CAD641.2050301@netzero.net> References: <46CAD641.2050301@netzero.net> Message-ID: <46EC3719.9010101@gmail.com> Folks -- I attended the grand opening of Bull City Biodiesel's new tank last night. Rich Cregar, an instructor at Wake Tech gave a talk on diesel technology, and in his talk he gave the answers to some questions that have been baffling biodieselers: 1) If biodiesel contains less energy per gallon than petrodiesel, why don't we get less mpg on biodiesel? 2) Why does biodiesel produce less soot than petrodiesel? 3) Why do newer cleaner diesel get fewer mpg than somewhat older diesels? 4) Why don't auto manufacturers approve the use of higher biodiesel blends in their new cars? The answers to these are all related and I will try to summarize it without messing it up too badly. The key factor is that biodiesel is an oxygenated fuel, which makes the burn spread faster in the cylinder and gives a more complete burn. The oxygenation gives biodiesel a higher cetane number. The more complete burn means less soot is formed. It also means that even though there is slightly less chemical energy in a gal. of biodiesel than in a gal of petrodiesel, a greater proportion of it is recovered as useful work in the engine, so there is no noticeable reduction in mpg. Moving on to the reduced mileage folks get on newer diesels, the issue is NOx. NOx productoion is a function of the temp. and pressure in the engine. In order to meet new emissions standards, one of the things that hass been done is to set the timing to minimize the zone where air experiences the high temps. that produce NOx. Setting the timing in that way is not most efficient for recovering energy from the fuel, so lower mpg. So what does any of this have to do with approving of high biodiesel blends in newer engines. Well, we know that tests have shown that biodiesel produces somewhat more NOx than petrodiesel. The reason is that the faster, more complete burn of the oxygenated fuel increase the zone in the cylinder where NOx is formed. Well, the new NOx standards are really hard to meet, and if using B100 increases NOx emissions by 15%, the engine won't meet the EPA standards. If the manufacturer approves the use of a biodiesel blend, then it is liable to HEAVY FINES by the EPA if an engine running that blend exceeds the emissions limits. So manufacturers will not approve the use of some biodiesel blends even if they will do no harm to the engine because of the NOx issue. -- Mark From ttsinc624 at juno.com Sat Sep 15 21:17:15 2007 From: ttsinc624 at juno.com (Mr. Turner) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 01:17:15 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed Message-ID: <20070915.211715.26873.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Wow so even though it is better it is still bad? _____________________________________________________________ Let great B to B marketing solutions propel your brand to new heights! Click now! http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iigEPMRLG6UpjECTVfK1IjUzYTIDFr7De14jYwWhBtwaNMtaf/ From kcfoxie at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 01:38:27 2007 From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 01:38:27 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed In-Reply-To: <20070915.211715.26873.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> References: <20070915.211715.26873.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <1bb86e040709152238n2894a590g4887762a0eda6cf9@mail.gmail.com> Anyone have the gasoline NOx regulation handy? Is it higher than a diesel regulation? If so, by how much? From panthercat at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 07:09:25 2007 From: panthercat at gmail.com (panthercat at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 07:09:25 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed In-Reply-To: <20070915.211715.26873.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> References: <20070915.211715.26873.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <4b6e46c90709160409r21c69354oe8c4107548e7b44e@mail.gmail.com> Does anybody know of companies trying to solve the NOx problem? -Carlos On 9/15/07, Mr. Turner wrote: > Wow so even though it is better it is still bad? > _____________________________________________________________ > Let great B to B marketing solutions propel your brand to new heights! Click now! > http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iigEPMRLG6UpjECTVfK1IjUzYTIDFr7De14jYwWhBtwaNMtaf/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From george at sunsetcoachmen.com Sun Sep 16 08:47:21 2007 From: george at sunsetcoachmen.com (George Bostic) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:47:21 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] BioD ready hose In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070916124733.0D86A2552AB7@smtp12.dc2.safesecureweb.com> Any SAE30 R9 rated fuel line will have a flor-elastimer liner; the same product sold as Vitton. Gates is one producer. We buy from Carolina Auto Supply in Charlotte. 25' roll for under $30. Their brand in RDP. Probably can find in your area. If not contact George at The Sunset Coachmen. 704.491.6278. From MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 12:18:19 2007 From: MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com (Mark Ambrose) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:18:19 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed In-Reply-To: <1bb86e040709152238n2894a590g4887762a0eda6cf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070915.211715.26873.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com> <1bb86e040709152238n2894a590g4887762a0eda6cf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46ED574B.4080306@gmail.com> The NOx limits for gasoline engines used to be much lower than what was permitted for diesels. The new regs. set the lower NOx limits essentially the same for both types of engines. NOx formation is essentially a function of engine temp. Because gas engines operate at lower temps. than diesels, it is relatively easy to reduce NOx in gasoline engines but MUCH harder to do in diesels. In contrast, diesels emit very little CO and hydrocarbons, and it has been harder to reduce these emissions in gas engines. Chris Browder wrote: > Anyone have the gasoline NOx regulation handy? Is it higher than a > diesel regulation? If so, by how much? > > From CConnor at luckstone.com Mon Sep 17 09:41:21 2007 From: CConnor at luckstone.com (Chris . Connor) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:41:21 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed In-Reply-To: <46ED574B.4080306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B50EDDDB2E@5825-ml.luck.net> So is it fair to say the Biodiesel or a bio-blend produces fewer greenhouse gases than gasoline engines? If so, why does EPA not address this with their regulations? -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Mark Ambrose Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:18 PM To: Chris Browder Cc: Mr. Turner; mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu; Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed The NOx limits for gasoline engines used to be much lower than what was permitted for diesels. The new regs. set the lower NOx limits essentially the same for both types of engines. NOx formation is essentially a function of engine temp. Because gas engines operate at lower temps. than diesels, it is relatively easy to reduce NOx in gasoline engines but MUCH harder to do in diesels. In contrast, diesels emit very little CO and hydrocarbons, and it has been harder to reduce these emissions in gas engines. Chris Browder wrote: > Anyone have the gasoline NOx regulation handy? Is it higher than a > diesel regulation? If so, by how much? > > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. ______________________________________________________________________ From john.bonitz at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 10:33:24 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:33:24 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] biodiesel mysteries revealed Message-ID: <84a57a420709170733o6d3651e9gd247dd2f5e878f4@mail.gmail.com> I'd like to send out props to Bull City Biofuels, Rich Cregar, and Mark Ambrose. Bull City organized a great event, which I am very sorry I was unable to attend. I hope their new pump location got great exposure, and I hope they get scads of drivers using it. Rich Cregar sounds like an amazing addition to our little community of diesel-lovers, and although I met him once, I can't wait to meet him again. Sounds like he's a rich source of valuable information. (I wish I was closer to Wake Tech so I could take his classes!) And Mark gets big-time props for sharing this brief explanation with us so quickly! Good stuff. Thanks for making it accessible to so many folks, Rich. cheers! JB -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ P.S. So, does BIG-list till seem like a used car lot? LOL! JB ******enclosure****** Seminar: Diesel Technology for Renewables Saturday, September 1st, 2007 (Events) On Sept. 14th from 6-8pm, we will host a seminar on biodiesel engine technology at our Grand Opening, conducted by Rich Cregar, instructor at Wake Tech. This Seminar is will explore the history and technology associated with the Diesel engine and provide students with both hands on experience and a theoretical approach to maintaining and operating diesel equipment on renewable fuels. Handling and use of biodiesel and other bio-fuels will be covered thoroughly. 1) Examine the drivers that are leading our society to the use of Biofuels; ?Energy Security ?Petroleum supply and demand ?Classic emission issues ?Global warming?Carbon issues 2) Examine the development of modern Diesel technologies: ?Brief history of the Diesel Engine ?Brief introduction to principles of Diesel combustion ?High pressure (common rail) fuel systems ?Air control and delivery (Turbos and related technology) ?Emission systems 3) Examine renewable alternatives: ?Biodiesel ?SVO?s ?Synthetic fuels (DiMethyl Ethers and F-T) 4) What we need to do to improve our future (General Discussion) Richard E. Cregar, Instructor, Wake Technical College, 9101 Fayetteville Rd., Raleigh, N.C. 27603 Rich Cregar joined the National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium (NAFTC) as the National Instructor in July, 2004. He joined the Faculty of Wake Technical College, An NAFTC National Training Center, in the summer of 2006. Mr. Cregar represents Wake Tech at nationwide conferences, seminars, and training events, such as the SAE Hybrid Technology Symposium. He has presented papers at the 2006 SAE World Congress and the 2007 North American Council of Automotive Teachers (NACAT) convention in Long Beach, Ca. He has also served as co-chair of the Committee on Hydrogen Vehicle Safety of SAE. For several years, Mr. Cregar was Technical Training Manager at Leith Mercedes-Benz in Raleigh, NC. In this role, he trained apprentice technicians to staff dealerships. This position involved hands-on management and technical troubleshooting of a franchised high-line workshop. In a career spanning more than 30 years, Mr. Cregar has served as a Team Leader and Site Manager for Universal Technical Institute in Houston, TX, and Allentown, PA; as Operations Manager for the Bosch Technical Hotline in St. Paul, MN; and as Service Manager for a number of automotive dealerships. Mr. Cregar holds the following certifications from the Institute for Automotive Service Excellence (ASE): Master Automotive Technician, Advanced Level Specialist in Automobile Advanced Engine Performance, and Alternative Fuels Technician. He is a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), International Automotive Technicians? Network (IATN), and North American Council of Automotive Teachers (NACAT). Message: 7 Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:48:41 -0400 From: Mark Ambrose Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed To: Biofuels Class Message-ID: <46EC3719.9010101 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Folks -- I attended the grand opening of Bull City Biodiesel's new tank last night. Rich Cregar, an instructor at Wake Tech gave a talk on diesel technology, and in his talk he gave the answers to some questions that have been baffling biodieselers: 1) If biodiesel contains less energy per gallon than petrodiesel, why don't we get less mpg on biodiesel? 2) Why does biodiesel produce less soot than petrodiesel? 3) Why do newer cleaner diesel get fewer mpg than somewhat older diesels? 4) Why don't auto manufacturers approve the use of higher biodiesel blends in their new cars? The answers to these are all related and I will try to summarize it without messing it up too badly. The key factor is that biodiesel is an oxygenated fuel, which makes the burn spread faster in the cylinder and gives a more complete burn. The oxygenation gives biodiesel a higher cetane number. The more complete burn means less soot is formed. It also means that even though there is slightly less chemical energy in a gal. of biodiesel than in a gal of petrodiesel, a greater proportion of it is recovered as useful work in the engine, so there is no noticeable reduction in mpg. Moving on to the reduced mileage folks get on newer diesels, the issue is NOx. NOx productoion is a function of the temp. and pressure in the engine. In order to meet new emissions standards, one of the things that hass been done is to set the timing to minimize the zone where air experiences the high temps. that produce NOx. Setting the timing in that way is not most efficient for recovering energy from the fuel, so lower mpg. So what does any of this have to do with approving of high biodiesel blends in newer engines. Well, we know that tests have shown that biodiesel produces somewhat more NOx than petrodiesel. The reason is that the faster, more complete burn of the oxygenated fuel increase the zone in the cylinder where NOx is formed. Well, the new NOx standards are really hard to meet, and if using B100 increases NOx emissions by 15%, the engine won't meet the EPA standards. If the manufacturer approves the use of a biodiesel blend, then it is liable to HEAVY FINES by the EPA if an engine running that blend exceeds the emissions limits. So manufacturers will not approve the use of some biodiesel blends even if they will do no harm to the engine because of the NOx issue. -- Mark From brian at blueridgebiofuels.com Mon Sep 17 10:41:42 2007 From: brian at blueridgebiofuels.com (Brian) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:41:42 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed References: <20070915.211715.26873.1@webmail01.dca.untd.com><1bb86e040709152238n2894a590g4887762a0eda6cf9@mail.gmail.com> <46ED574B.4080306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005201c7f938$dd609e50$6600a8c0@eMachines> In regards to NOx, it is not the temperature that causes most of the NOx increase for a diesel compared to a gasoline engine, but rather the air fuel ratio. Diesel engines run lean on fuel, with lots of air and thus the high compression ratio to compress all that air. The atmosphere is 80% Nitrogen and therefore much more nitrogen is present to form NOx in a diesel engine combustion chamber compared to gasoline engines. Gasoline engines run rich and therefore the air fuel mixture is has lots more fuel compared to air. Brian Winslett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ambrose" To: "Chris Browder" Cc: "Mr. Turner" ; ; Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed > The NOx limits for gasoline engines used to be much lower than what was > permitted for diesels. The new regs. set the lower NOx limits > essentially the same for both types of engines. NOx formation is > essentially a function of engine temp. Because gas engines operate at > lower temps. than diesels, it is relatively easy to reduce NOx in > gasoline engines but MUCH harder to do in diesels. In contrast, diesels > emit very little CO and hydrocarbons, and it has been harder to reduce > these emissions in gas engines. > > Chris Browder wrote: >> Anyone have the gasoline NOx regulation handy? Is it higher than a >> diesel regulation? If so, by how much? >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From shipyardphil at yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 11:50:28 2007 From: shipyardphil at yahoo.com (Phil Carter) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] biodiesel mysteries revealed Message-ID: <820944.70715.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I second the props! Valuable and succinct information! I am trying to pitch my business on using Biofuel and do not want to overhype or incorrectly explain the benefits of using Biodiesel. Thanks Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: John Bonitz To: MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com; BIG ; "Marc Dreyfors-President," Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:33:24 AM Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] biodiesel mysteries revealed I'd like to send out props to Bull City Biofuels, Rich Cregar, and Mark Ambrose. Bull City organized a great event, which I am very sorry I was unable to attend. I hope their new pump location got great exposure, and I hope they get scads of drivers using it. Rich Cregar sounds like an amazing addition to our little community of diesel-lovers, and although I met him once, I can't wait to meet him again. Sounds like he's a rich source of valuable information. (I wish I was closer to Wake Tech so I could take his classes!) And Mark gets big-time props for sharing this brief explanation with us so quickly! Good stuff. Thanks for making it accessible to so many folks, Rich. cheers! JB -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ P.S. So, does BIG-list till seem like a used car lot? LOL! JB ******enclosure****** Seminar: Diesel Technology for Renewables Saturday, September 1st, 2007 (Events) On Sept. 14th from 6-8pm, we will host a seminar on biodiesel engine technology at our Grand Opening, conducted by Rich Cregar, instructor at Wake Tech. This Seminar is will explore the history and technology associated with the Diesel engine and provide students with both hands on experience and a theoretical approach to maintaining and operating diesel equipment on renewable fuels. Handling and use of biodiesel and other bio-fuels will be covered thoroughly. 1) Examine the drivers that are leading our society to the use of Biofuels; ?Energy Security ?Petroleum supply and demand ?Classic emission issues ?Global warming?Carbon issues 2) Examine the development of modern Diesel technologies: ?Brief history of the Diesel Engine ?Brief introduction to principles of Diesel combustion ?High pressure (common rail) fuel systems ?Air control and delivery (Turbos and related technology) ?Emission systems 3) Examine renewable alternatives: ?Biodiesel ?SVO?s ?Synthetic fuels (DiMethyl Ethers and F-T) 4) What we need to do to improve our future (General Discussion) Richard E. Cregar, Instructor, Wake Technical College, 9101 Fayetteville Rd., Raleigh, N.C. 27603 Rich Cregar joined the National Alternative Fuels Training Consortium (NAFTC) as the National Instructor in July, 2004. He joined the Faculty of Wake Technical College, An NAFTC National Training Center, in the summer of 2006. Mr. Cregar represents Wake Tech at nationwide conferences, seminars, and training events, such as the SAE Hybrid Technology Symposium. He has presented papers at the 2006 SAE World Congress and the 2007 North American Council of Automotive Teachers (NACAT) convention in Long Beach, Ca. He has also served as co-chair of the Committee on Hydrogen Vehicle Safety of SAE. For several years, Mr. Cregar was Technical Training Manager at Leith Mercedes-Benz in Raleigh, NC. In this role, he trained apprentice technicians to staff dealerships. This position involved hands-on management and technical troubleshooting of a franchised high-line workshop. In a career spanning more than 30 years, Mr. Cregar has served as a Team Leader and Site Manager for Universal Technical Institute in Houston, TX, and Allentown, PA; as Operations Manager for the Bosch Technical Hotline in St. Paul, MN; and as Service Manager for a number of automotive dealerships. Mr. Cregar holds the following certifications from the Institute for Automotive Service Excellence (ASE): Master Automotive Technician, Advanced Level Specialist in Automobile Advanced Engine Performance, and Alternative Fuels Technician. He is a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), International Automotive Technicians? Network (IATN), and North American Council of Automotive Teachers (NACAT). Message: 7 Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:48:41 -0400 From: Mark Ambrose Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Mysteries Revealed To: Biofuels Class Message-ID: <46EC3719.9010101 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Folks -- I attended the grand opening of Bull City Biodiesel's new tank last night. Rich Cregar, an instructor at Wake Tech gave a talk on diesel technology, and in his talk he gave the answers to some questions that have been baffling biodieselers: 1) If biodiesel contains less energy per gallon than petrodiesel, why don't we get less mpg on biodiesel? 2) Why does biodiesel produce less soot than petrodiesel? 3) Why do newer cleaner diesel get fewer mpg than somewhat older diesels? 4) Why don't auto manufacturers approve the use of higher biodiesel blends in their new cars? The answers to these are all related and I will try to summarize it without messing it up too badly. The key factor is that biodiesel is an oxygenated fuel, which makes the burn spread faster in the cylinder and gives a more complete burn. The oxygenation gives biodiesel a higher cetane number. The more complete burn means less soot is formed. It also means that even though there is slightly less chemical energy in a gal. of biodiesel than in a gal of petrodiesel, a greater proportion of it is recovered as useful work in the engine, so there is no noticeable reduction in mpg. Moving on to the reduced mileage folks get on newer diesels, the issue is NOx. NOx productoion is a function of the temp. and pressure in the engine. In order to meet new emissions standards, one of the things that hass been done is to set the timing to minimize the zone where air experiences the high temps. that produce NOx. Setting the timing in that way is not most efficient for recovering energy from the fuel, so lower mpg. So what does any of this have to do with approving of high biodiesel blends in newer engines. Well, we know that tests have shown that biodiesel produces somewhat more NOx than petrodiesel. The reason is that the faster, more complete burn of the oxygenated fuel increase the zone in the cylinder where NOx is formed. Well, the new NOx standards are really hard to meet, and if using B100 increases NOx emissions by 15%, the engine won't meet the EPA standards. If the manufacturer approves the use of a biodiesel blend, then it is liable to HEAVY FINES by the EPA if an engine running that blend exceeds the emissions limits. So manufacturers will not approve the use of some biodiesel blends even if they will do no harm to the engine because of the NOx issue. -- Mark _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ____________________________________________________________________________________ Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Mon Sep 17 11:52:56 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:52:56 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] companies trying to solve the NOx problem? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Carlos, My understanding is that several of the automakers will be releasing new diesel vehicles here in the US market, either in 2008 or 2009, with new technology for controlling the NOx emissions. The technology is called SCR or Selective Catalytic Reduction, and it uses urea injection coupled with a new catalytic system on the exhaust. Here's an old article describing the technology: http://www.naftc.wvu.edu/NAFTC%20eNews/November%2005/ureainjectionsys.html It's not new: For decades, natural gas-fired power plants have been using urea injection to cut NOx. And another article that gives broader perspectives: http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/13/Autos/diesel/index.htm?cnn=yes "Diesel: Using oil to cut oil use -- The fuel could be the quickest and most efficient way to make a big cut in U.S. oil consumption. But there are problems." By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer February 13, 2006: 4:31 PM EST DaimlerChrysler will sell Mercedes diesels with the technology branded as BlueTEC. VW's is called BlueMotion. I hear that Nissan, Audi, and BMW will join the game, too. Dunno about Ford. It will be nice to see new diesel vehicles on the market, but I'm eagerly awaiting the entry of diesel-electric hybrids onto the market. ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From gilmc at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 18 11:46:45 2007 From: gilmc at bellsouth.net (Gil McNeill) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:46:45 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel for sale Message-ID: <002301c7fa0b$1ea9b090$5bfd11b0$@net> Hey folks, This posting is for a friend (and former co-op member). Please respond to him directly. "I have a 1982 diesel Peugeot 504 wagon that runs fine but needs some repairs to the gear box. Will tow to location (100 mi max) for $200.00. Neil Vittum (919) 357-3685" Thanks Gil McNeill From gilmc at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 18 17:54:29 2007 From: gilmc at bellsouth.net (Gil McNeill) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:54:29 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Peugeot Message-ID: <005501c7fa3e$7df89d30$79e9d790$@net> Folks, The Peugeot I posted for Neil Vittum earlier today has been sold. Thanks. Gil McNeill From marc at theforestfoundation.org Fri Sep 21 17:38:10 2007 From: marc at theforestfoundation.org (marc) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:38:10 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 05 TDI Wagon and 300TD For Sale!! Message-ID: <46F439C2.1090109@theforestfoundation.org> Hi Everyone, Wow, what a rarity to find these cars available: Selling 2005 Jetta Wagon TDI with 51,700K miles, gorgeous silver color, CD player and tape player, monster mats (rubber floor mats,easy to clean). One owner, no wrecks, complete maintenance records. All suggested preventative maintenance has been performed at the proper mileage marks. The condition of the exterior is excellent. The condition of the interior is very good, though there is a light stain on the drivers seat where we spilled a coffee some time ago. Has been run on varying percentages of biodiesel throughout its life. (B100 here in N.C.) Bought in Texas, driven there since 2006, then brought here in May 2007. We LOVE this car and will miss it so much; we are only selling it because we've both gone back to graduate school now and need a less expensive vehicle. We very much want to sell to someone who will keep running it on biodiesel! We've been offered more than we paid for it in the past, because the Jetta Wagon TDI was discontinued and has held its value. In the past we were not looking to sell, but now would consider offers. On www.cars.com these cars, with a bit more mileage, are being listed for $24 and $25K. Starting Price $22K. Photos are available for viewing. Just email us. And The car is a 1982 Mercedes Benz 300TD. It is red over palomino mb tex interior. It has the sought after third row seat, which does have a small tear in it. I have the original owners manual, tool kit, and first aid kit for it. It has a manual sunroof that will leak a bit in torrential rains. The car is fully equipped for 1982 and for the most part everything works. The window work, the AC works, the original Becker radio works. The car passes inspection with no problems. The car has about 200k on odometer, which works. The odometer shows around 181k on it. I had to replace the odometer which died at around 197k with one from salvage car that read around 177k. I still have the original cluster with the car. The transmission has been replaced with a low mileage replacement and shifts great, no signs of slipping or flaring. The car has new upper control arms and bushings in the front end which is very tight, a new blower motor, valve job, tires, belts, filters, and many other things that I am sure I am forgetting. I have all of the receipts for everything that I have done to it. It also comes with an assortment of parts. Lets see...what is wrong with it...the antennae does not work, the motor does but the gears are stripped. One of the back windows sometimes sticks, the AC switch is moody when its really hot, it requires a few pushes of the button to get it to kick in sometimes, the cruise control does not work, and I am not sure about the rear wiper. The red paint is faded unevenly, the interior I think is fine for 25years of service, the dash is NOT cracked, the front seats could use new springs at some point though. And it needs the return fuel lines replaced which I will be doing this week. Other than that its a great car, I know that I will regret selling it, but all I see it doing in the future at my house is sitting 90% of the time. Photos available. Asking $4400. Let me know if you are interested in either vehicle. The Forest Foundation is asking for a small finders fee donation as a fundraiser for our work. Thanks! Marc 919.957.1500 From john.bonitz at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 13:59:13 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 13:59:13 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FREE FILM! Power of Community: Cuba and Peak Oil, Thursday, 7pm, Pittsboro Message-ID: <84a57a420709231059t7fa4885dy42885284c106a278@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, Does anyone remember what happened to fuel supplies after Hurricane Katrina? When the refineries shut-down for repairs, and pipelines stopped flowing due to power-loss, gas prices soared from $2.50 to $3.50 a gallon. Down in Georgia, the governor closed the schools in hopes of saving diesel fuel consumed by buses. What would we do here in Chatham if it happened again? What would we do if the disruption lasted longer than a few weeks? This year's mild hurricane season is not quite over. I won't even go into our vulnerabilities from intentional disruptions. More importantly, we're still burning petroleum five times faster than we're discovering it. The Chatham Alliance for Sustainable Energy is hosting a film which explores the options a community used when their petroleum supplies were cut-off. It is a film full of hope and inspiration. I hope folks will plan to come watch it. Sincerely, John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WHAT: "Power of Community: Cuba and Peak Oil" (53 min.) WHEN: Thursday, Sept. 27, 7pm WHERE: District Courtroom, Pittsboro, NC. WHO: Everyone is invited to attend. HOW MUCH: FREE! When Cuba lost access to Soviet oil in the early 1990s, the country faced an immediate crisis ? feeding the population ? and an ongoing challenge: How to create a new low-energy society. This optimistic film tells the story of the Cuban people's hardship, ingenuity, and triumph over sudden adversity ? through cooperation, conservation, and community. For more information: http://www.askquestions.org/articles/oil/ http://www.caseinchatham.org/ http://www.biofuels.coop/ From francismiller at comcast.net Sun Sep 23 14:22:26 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:22:26 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FREE FILM! Power of Community: Cuba and Peak Oil, Thursday, 7pm, Pittsboro In-Reply-To: <84a57a420709231059t7fa4885dy42885284c106a278@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a57a420709231059t7fa4885dy42885284c106a278@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46F6AEE2.6070809@comcast.net> John Bonitz wrote: >Dear Friends, > >Does anyone remember what happened to fuel supplies after Hurricane >Katrina? When the refineries shut-down for repairs, and pipelines >stopped flowing due to power-loss, gas prices soared from $2.50 to >$3.50 a gallon. Down in Georgia, the governor closed the schools in >hopes of saving diesel fuel consumed by buses. > >What would we do here in Chatham if it happened again? What would we >do if the disruption lasted longer than a few weeks? > >This year's mild hurricane season is not quite over. I won't even go >into our vulnerabilities from intentional disruptions. More >importantly, we're still burning petroleum five times faster than >we're discovering it. > >The Chatham Alliance for Sustainable Energy is hosting a film which >explores the options a community used when their petroleum supplies >were cut-off. It is a film full of hope and inspiration. I hope >folks will plan to come watch it. > >Sincerely, > > > John: Too bad I am out in Colorado. I would like to take in that movie. Let me add something from an economist's point of view on this issue, which is more important than most people realize. There is a tendency when prices rise for the public to cry out for regulation. History has shown that price controls inevitably lead to rationing, less supply and a black market. The compelling reason for learning how to generate your own energy may be less a matter of saving money as in having a supply. I am convinced that "big oil" has been allowed to concentrate its power and restrict the supply. Back in the 1960s there was such a glut that price wars broke out. The OPEC cartels responded by controlling production but "big oil" controlled refining capacity. In the long run it will be a matter of being able to generate your own energy locally, off the grid. That's my opinion, for what it is worth. Francis M. Miller, Parker, Colorado. >John Bonitz >Silk Hope, NC >~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >WHAT: "Power of Community: Cuba and Peak Oil" (53 min.) >WHEN: Thursday, Sept. 27, 7pm >WHERE: District Courtroom, Pittsboro, NC. >WHO: Everyone is invited to attend. >HOW MUCH: FREE! > >When Cuba lost access to Soviet oil in the early 1990s, the country >faced an immediate crisis ? feeding the population ? and an ongoing >challenge: How to create a new low-energy society. This optimistic >film tells the story of the Cuban people's hardship, ingenuity, and >triumph over sudden adversity ? through cooperation, conservation, and >community. > >For more information: >http://www.askquestions.org/articles/oil/ >http://www.caseinchatham.org/ >http://www.biofuels.coop/ >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 15:02:23 2007 From: MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com (Mark Ambrose) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:02:23 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Seeking tanks & barrels Message-ID: <46F6B83F.20601@gmail.com> This is not truly biofuels related, but folks on this list are great at sourcing out the same items free or cheap, so I thought I would post it here. I want to expand my rainwater collection system for my garden and am looking to find some 55 gallon barrels and/or larger (100-200 gal) tanks for water storage. I know that folks have had similar items avail. here in the past, and I would appreciate any leads. -- Mark Ambrose From mattr at biofuels.coop Sun Sep 23 16:55:33 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:55:33 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 275 gallon IBC totes available In-Reply-To: <46F6B83F.20601@gmail.com> References: <46F6B83F.20601@gmail.com> Message-ID: At the biodiesel coop we have a bunch of 275 gallon IBC tote containers for sale for $50 each. They are stackable, and have a large 6 or 9 inch port on the top and a two inch threaded buttress fitting on the bottom. An adapter to go to 2" NPT can be purchased for $10. There are three different kinds of pallets available, wooden, plastic or metal. They come with a spout that attaches to the 2 inch port and a dust cover. These tanks are graduated in 50 liter increments so you can easily determine the amount of liquid they contain. These tanks have been used just one time with virgin vegetable oil and have just a slight oily residue left on the inside of them, but are clean of dirt and sediment. We do have a few that are completely clean. These tanks work great for rain water catchment, vegetable oil or biodiesel storage, and storage or transport of virtually any liquid. Because they are clean, they can be used to store finished biodiesel or filtered SVO. This tanks are perfect for anyone looking for an inexpensive method to store large amounts of liquids. Bulk purchases possible at $40 each. The dimensions of these containers are 3'4" wide x 4' deep x 3'8" tall from the perspective of the drain port. From mbcahoon at blast.com Sun Sep 23 17:29:05 2007 From: mbcahoon at blast.com (Mary Beth Cahoon) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:29:05 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Message-ID: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine tuned for biodiesel VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos available. From francismiller at comcast.net Sun Sep 23 20:17:24 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:17:24 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI In-Reply-To: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> Message-ID: <46F70214.7010207@comcast.net> Here we go again with the used car lot stuff. Sheesh. Use ebay or craigs list. Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >tuned for biodiesel > >VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 > >Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >available. >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From sally.robertson at earthlink.net Sun Sep 23 20:40:33 2007 From: sally.robertson at earthlink.net (Sally Robertson) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:40:33 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F70214.7010207@comcast.net> Message-ID: <034501c7fe43$88e0b440$6601a8c0@Thinkpad> I find the car listings really useful. I have to go search ebay and craig's list. This way, the ads come to me, and they're local! That's my vote anyway. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis M. Miller" To: "Mary Beth Cahoon" Cc: ; "Jan Nichols" Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI > Here we go again with the used car lot stuff. Sheesh. Use ebay or craigs > list. > > Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: > >>2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>tuned for biodiesel >> >>VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >> >>Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>available. >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From tim_turner at ncsu.edu Sun Sep 23 21:07:41 2007 From: tim_turner at ncsu.edu (Tim Turner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:07:41 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI In-Reply-To: <034501c7fe43$88e0b440$6601a8c0@Thinkpad> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F70214.7010207@comcast.net> <034501c7fe43$88e0b440$6601a8c0@Thinkpad> Message-ID: <46F70DDD.6020806@ncsu.edu> I also think the vehicle listings provide a useful service to the local biodiesel community. A good diesel is hard to find... Tim Sally Robertson wrote: > I find the car listings really useful. I have to go search ebay and craig's > list. This way, the ads come to me, and they're local! > That's my vote anyway. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Francis M. Miller" > To: "Mary Beth Cahoon" > Cc: ; "Jan Nichols" > > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI > > > >> Here we go again with the used car lot stuff. Sheesh. Use ebay or craigs >> list. >> >> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >> >> >>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>> tuned for biodiesel >>> >>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>> >>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>> available. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From efcox at charter.net Sun Sep 23 21:11:18 2007 From: efcox at charter.net (Everett Cox) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:11:18 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI In-Reply-To: <46F70DDD.6020806@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <000101c7fe47$d7e216c0$63f5884b@CoxNC3809976> I agree. If I wanted to sell either of my MB 300SD's I would try to place them in a good home. This list is the place. Ev -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Tim Turner Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:08 PM Cc: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net; Jan Nichols Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI I also think the vehicle listings provide a useful service to the local biodiesel community. A good diesel is hard to find... Tim Sally Robertson wrote: > I find the car listings really useful. I have to go search ebay and craig's > list. This way, the ads come to me, and they're local! > That's my vote anyway. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Francis M. Miller" > To: "Mary Beth Cahoon" > Cc: ; "Jan Nichols" > > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI > > > >> Here we go again with the used car lot stuff. Sheesh. Use ebay or craigs >> list. >> >> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >> >> >>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>> tuned for biodiesel >>> >>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>> >>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>> available. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From alicehinman at earthlink.net Sun Sep 23 21:15:50 2007 From: alicehinman at earthlink.net (Alice Hinman) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:15:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Message-ID: <16142469.1190596550989.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I appreciate the car notices. Someday soon I hope to reply to someone with the necessary cash in my hot little hand. LOL -----Original Message----- >From: "Francis M. Miller" >Sent: Sep 23, 2007 8:17 PM >To: Mary Beth Cahoon >Cc: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net, Jan Nichols >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI > >Here we go again with the used car lot stuff. Sheesh. Use ebay or craigs >list. > >Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: > >>2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>tuned for biodiesel >> >>VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >> >>Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>available. >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From kcfoxie at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 21:41:02 2007 From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:41:02 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI In-Reply-To: <16142469.1190596550989.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <16142469.1190596550989.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1bb86e040709231841t506df9ffo6c8b4f1337e683eb@mail.gmail.com> I agree, this is a good way to ensure the vehicles gets a good home. If needed, lets require FOR SALE be added to the title, so that people can set filters to filter out the FOR SALE ads and all replies? From tes at unc.edu Sun Sep 23 21:44:15 2007 From: tes at unc.edu (tes thraves) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:44:15 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI In-Reply-To: <16142469.1190596550989.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ditto on yea for car notices. Please don't kick them off. . . . If we are voting. tes On 9/23/07 9:15 PM, "Alice Hinman" wrote: > I appreciate the car notices. Someday soon I hope to reply to someone with > the necessary cash in my hot little hand. > > LOL From wooster at coastalnet.com Sun Sep 23 21:53:49 2007 From: wooster at coastalnet.com (wooster at coastalnet.com) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:53:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Message-ID: <395958.1190598829866.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I appreciate the ads. I hope to get a golf diesel before too long. Ben -----Original Message----- >From: tes thraves >Sent: Sep 23, 2007 9:44 PM >To: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI > >Ditto on yea for car notices. Please don't kick them off. >. . . If we are voting. >tes > >On 9/23/07 9:15 PM, "Alice Hinman" wrote: > >> I appreciate the car notices. Someday soon I hope to reply to someone with >> the necessary cash in my hot little hand. >> >> LOL > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From docbry at earthlink.net Sun Sep 23 22:31:04 2007 From: docbry at earthlink.net (mike bryan) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:31:04 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please delete me from the mailing list. Thanks! Message-ID: <946c84213169bec58bcb4137de285f01@earthlink.net> From alicia at seventhgenergy.org Sun Sep 23 22:35:15 2007 From: alicia at seventhgenergy.org (Alicia) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:35:15 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI In-Reply-To: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> Message-ID: <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably knows a bit more than the average joe about diesels. AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested in? Why complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even though I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't apply. STILL wonderful to knwo it's happening. Thanks list keepers! Alicia Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: > 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good > condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine > tuned for biodiesel > > VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 > > Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos > available. > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > From francismiller at comcast.net Sun Sep 23 23:50:43 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:50:43 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] for sale: 2002 Volkswagen Jetta TDI In-Reply-To: <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> Message-ID: <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years ago there was a lot of really good technical information being posted. Those people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of Lemons" has driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used car lot will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. Alicia wrote: >The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably knows a >bit more than the average joe about diesels. > >AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested in? Why >complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even though >I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't apply. STILL >wonderful to knwo it's happening. > >Thanks list keepers! Alicia > >Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: > > >>2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>tuned for biodiesel >> >>VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >> >>Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>available. >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From biodiesel at yovo.info Mon Sep 24 10:04:56 2007 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:04:56 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> Message-ID: <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you have to - add a "for sale" in the subject AND - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first J?rgen Francis M. Miller wrote: > It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was > more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years ago > there was a lot of really good technical information being posted. Those > people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of Lemons" has > driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used car lot > will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. > > > > Alicia wrote: > >> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably knows a >> bit more than the average joe about diesels. >> >> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested in? Why >> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even though >> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't apply. STILL >> wonderful to knwo it's happening. >> >> Thanks list keepers! Alicia >> >> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >> >> >>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>> tuned for biodiesel >>> >>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>> >>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>> available. From shiftlink at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 10:16:28 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:16:28 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0709240716j770ef436y8730e093361ca820@mail.gmail.com> I scored a good cheap Diesel vehicle quickly from this list, before that I did not have a diesel alternative to my work truck to drive around, which will save mileage and allow me to use renewable fuel. Doesn't that help the cause just as much as talk about fuel filters and hot water heaters? By the way, I saw this and thought I'd pass it along: http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/1570 On 9/24/07, Jurgen Henn wrote: > How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you > have to > - add a "for sale" in the subject AND > - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first > > J?rgen > > > > Francis M. Miller wrote: > > It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was > > more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years ago > > there was a lot of really good technical information being posted. Those > > people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of Lemons" has > > driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used car lot > > will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. > > > > > > > > Alicia wrote: > > > >> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably knows a > >> bit more than the average joe about diesels. > >> > >> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested in? Why > >> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even though > >> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't apply. STILL > >> wonderful to knwo it's happening. > >> > >> Thanks list keepers! Alicia > >> > >> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: > >> > >> > >>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good > >>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine > >>> tuned for biodiesel > >>> > >>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 > >>> > >>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos > >>> available. > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From skepticbill at mac.com Mon Sep 24 10:17:56 2007 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:17:56 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> Message-ID: Why don't we create another listserve that people who are interested in buying and selling vehicles can subscribe to? That way we can focus on biofuels and related issues on 'BIG' and have a 'BIG Car' group that interested folks can use. I'd subscribe to both. Just a thought, -Bill- On 9/24/07 10:04 AM, "Jurgen Henn" wrote: > How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you > have to > - add a "for sale" in the subject AND > - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first > > J?rgen > > > > Francis M. Miller wrote: >> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was >> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years ago >> there was a lot of really good technical information being posted. Those >> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of Lemons" has >> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used car lot >> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. >> >> >> >> Alicia wrote: >> >>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably knows a >>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. >>> >>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested in? Why >>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even though >>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't apply. STILL >>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. >>> >>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia >>> >>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >>> >>> >>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>>> tuned for biodiesel >>>> >>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>>> >>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>>> available. > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From shiftlink at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 10:19:38 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:19:38 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Seeking tanks & barrels In-Reply-To: <46F6B83F.20601@gmail.com> References: <46F6B83F.20601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0709240719s6e02d0bbl427f147adaf57312@mail.gmail.com> You can buy new 55 gallon drums for $19 a piece from Marco Container in Kernersville. There may also be a shipping container seller nearer to you, $19 is cheap enough, and saves you having to wash something out of it. . . On 9/23/07, Mark Ambrose wrote: > This is not truly biofuels related, but folks on this list are great at > sourcing out the same items free or cheap, so I thought I would post it > here. I want to expand my rainwater collection system for my garden and > am looking to find some 55 gallon barrels and/or larger (100-200 gal) > tanks for water storage. I know that folks have had similar items > avail. here in the past, and I would appreciate any leads. > > -- Mark Ambrose > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From francismiller at comcast.net Mon Sep 24 10:31:46 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:31:46 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> Message-ID: <46F7CA52.10302@comcast.net> Jurgen: That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the last ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large number of people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of people who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I suggest we take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the forum as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then there will be peace amongst the hagglers. Fran Miller Jurgen Henn wrote: >How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you >have to >- add a "for sale" in the subject AND >- post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first > >J?rgen > > > >Francis M. Miller wrote: > > >>It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was >>more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years ago >>there was a lot of really good technical information being posted. Those >>people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of Lemons" has >>driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used car lot >>will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. >> >> >> >>Alicia wrote: >> >> >> >>>The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably knows a >>>bit more than the average joe about diesels. >>> >>>AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested in? Why >>>complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even though >>>I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't apply. STILL >>>wonderful to knwo it's happening. >>> >>>Thanks list keepers! Alicia >>> >>>Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>>>condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>>>tuned for biodiesel >>>> >>>>VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>>> >>>>Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>>>available. >>>> >>>> > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From tami at blast.com Mon Sep 24 10:33:10 2007 From: tami at blast.com (Tami Schwerin) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:33:10 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <46F7CA52.10302@comcast.net> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> <46F7CA52.10302@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6B5DA2C5-BDA5-4D9C-9096-FFC10C332A20@blast.com> In order to use biodiesel, you need a diesel vehicle to run it. I vote you keep the car information. It's a great service and there is a HUGE scarcity of vehicles around here. It's great to learn about the technical, and it is even greater to run biodiesel and live your philosophy. Tami Schwerin tami at blast.com 919-444-9300 http://www.theabundancefoundation.org On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Francis M. Miller wrote: > Jurgen: > That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the last > ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the > bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large number of > people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of people > who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I > suggest we > take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a > diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the > forum > as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then > there > will be peace amongst the hagglers. > > Fran Miller > > > Jurgen Henn wrote: > >> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you >> have to >> - add a "for sale" in the subject AND >> - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first >> >> J?rgen >> >> >> >> Francis M. Miller wrote: >> >> >>> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was >>> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years >>> ago >>> there was a lot of really good technical information being >>> posted. Those >>> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of >>> Lemons" has >>> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used >>> car lot >>> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. >>> >>> >>> >>> Alicia wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably >>>> knows a >>>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. >>>> >>>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested >>>> in? Why >>>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even >>>> though >>>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't >>>> apply. STILL >>>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. >>>> >>>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia >>>> >>>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, >>>>> engine >>>>> tuned for biodiesel >>>>> >>>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>>>> >>>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. >>>>> Photos >>>>> available. >>>>> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From troy at ncstate.net Mon Sep 24 10:48:08 2007 From: troy at ncstate.net (Troy Holder) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:48:08 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <46F7CA52.10302@comcast.net> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> <46F7CA52.10302@comcast.net> Message-ID: <14AFFE69-8897-4F22-886B-40C974D34A50@ncstate.net> I think what should be addressed here is the intended audience of the list. If the list is geared toward being a local resource for biofuel information, then the local classifieds seem to fit since they are helping folks in the area find local vehicles to purchase for biofuel use. If the the list is to be a national or worldwide source for biofuels info, then the classifieds may not be as welcome. To settle this debate, and to stop the bickering traffic that is out numbering the classifieds hands down, the list owners need to state their intentions on the list. From there folks can decide to stay or go. My 2 cents. On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Francis M. Miller wrote: > Jurgen: > That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the last > ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the > bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large number of > people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of people > who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I > suggest we > take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a > diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the > forum > as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then > there > will be peace amongst the hagglers. > > Fran Miller > > > Jurgen Henn wrote: > >> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you >> have to >> - add a "for sale" in the subject AND >> - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first >> >> J?rgen >> >> >> >> Francis M. Miller wrote: >> >> >>> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was >>> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years >>> ago >>> there was a lot of really good technical information being >>> posted. Those >>> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of >>> Lemons" has >>> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used >>> car lot >>> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. >>> >>> >>> >>> Alicia wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably >>>> knows a >>>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. >>>> >>>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested >>>> in? Why >>>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even >>>> though >>>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't >>>> apply. STILL >>>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. >>>> >>>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia >>>> >>>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, >>>>> engine >>>>> tuned for biodiesel >>>>> >>>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>>>> >>>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. >>>>> Photos >>>>> available. >>>>> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From oakleaf1 at charter.net Mon Sep 24 10:49:09 2007 From: oakleaf1 at charter.net (oakleaf1 at charter.net) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:49:09 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <6B5DA2C5-BDA5-4D9C-9096-FFC10C332A20@blast.com> Message-ID: <20070924104909.OGTZ2.39973.root@fepweb07> I agree with putting a 'FOR SALE:" in the subject line. If you want to open it, you can; while giving you the option to just delete. Randy ---- Tami Schwerin wrote: > In order to use biodiesel, you need a diesel vehicle to run it. I > vote you keep the car information. > It's a great service and there is a HUGE scarcity of vehicles around > here. It's great to learn about > the technical, and it is even greater to run biodiesel and live your > philosophy. > > > Tami Schwerin > tami at blast.com > 919-444-9300 > http://www.theabundancefoundation.org > > > > > > On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Francis M. Miller wrote: > > > Jurgen: > > That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the last > > ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the > > bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large number of > > people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of people > > who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I > > suggest we > > take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a > > diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the > > forum > > as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then > > there > > will be peace amongst the hagglers. > > > > Fran Miller > > > > > > Jurgen Henn wrote: > > > >> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you > >> have to > >> - add a "for sale" in the subject AND > >> - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first > >> > >> J?rgen > >> > >> > >> > >> Francis M. Miller wrote: > >> > >> > >>> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was > >>> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years > >>> ago > >>> there was a lot of really good technical information being > >>> posted. Those > >>> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of > >>> Lemons" has > >>> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used > >>> car lot > >>> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Alicia wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably > >>>> knows a > >>>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. > >>>> > >>>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested > >>>> in? Why > >>>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even > >>>> though > >>>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't > >>>> apply. STILL > >>>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia > >>>> > >>>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good > >>>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, > >>>>> engine > >>>>> tuned for biodiesel > >>>>> > >>>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 > >>>>> > >>>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. > >>>>> Photos > >>>>> available. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From tim_turner at ncsu.edu Mon Sep 24 10:55:54 2007 From: tim_turner at ncsu.edu (Tim Turner) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:55:54 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <46F7CA52.10302@comcast.net> References: <3E024E94-7602-41C4-B685-9E8AA64C5683@blast.com> <46F72263.8070408@seventhgenergy.org> <46F73413.8030403@comcast.net> <46F7C408.30902@yovo.info> <46F7CA52.10302@comcast.net> Message-ID: <46F7CFFA.2070007@ncsu.edu> Would the list moderator please bring some order to this discussion? I think a line has been crossed. Tim Francis M. Miller wrote: > Jurgen: > That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the last > ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the > bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large number of > people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of people > who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I suggest we > take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a > diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the forum > as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then there > will be peace amongst the hagglers. > > Fran Miller > > > Jurgen Henn wrote: > > >> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you >> have to >> - add a "for sale" in the subject AND >> - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first >> >> J?rgen >> >> >> >> Francis M. Miller wrote: >> >> >> >>> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was >>> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years ago >>> there was a lot of really good technical information being posted. Those >>> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of Lemons" has >>> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used car lot >>> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. >>> >>> >>> >>> Alicia wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably knows a >>>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. >>>> >>>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested in? Why >>>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even though >>>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't apply. STILL >>>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. >>>> >>>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia >>>> >>>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >>>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, engine >>>>> tuned for biodiesel >>>>> >>>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>>>> >>>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. Photos >>>>> available. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From shiftlink at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 10:57:16 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:57:16 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <20070924104909.OGTZ2.39973.root@fepweb07> References: <6B5DA2C5-BDA5-4D9C-9096-FFC10C332A20@blast.com> <20070924104909.OGTZ2.39973.root@fepweb07> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0709240757j611a77cv53d21b11194ec715@mail.gmail.com> It sounds like to me it is time to graduate from a mail list to an internet Forum, someone could host a website and put up a Forum then inside the forum you can have different categories for people to read different threads in and respond to what gets them going there. Categories might include: Diesel engine tech Reactor builds/ tech Car classifieds equipment classifieds SVO Conversions Fuel Chemistry Biofuels news/main forum Mailing lists are sort-of 1999 Cheers, Cameron On 9/24/07, oakleaf1 at charter.net wrote: > I agree with putting a 'FOR SALE:" in the subject line. If you want to open it, you can; while giving you the option to just delete. > > Randy > > ---- Tami Schwerin wrote: > > In order to use biodiesel, you need a diesel vehicle to run it. I > > vote you keep the car information. > > It's a great service and there is a HUGE scarcity of vehicles around > > here. It's great to learn about > > the technical, and it is even greater to run biodiesel and live your > > philosophy. > > > > > > Tami Schwerin > > tami at blast.com > > 919-444-9300 > > http://www.theabundancefoundation.org > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Francis M. Miller wrote: > > > > > Jurgen: > > > That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the last > > > ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the > > > bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large number of > > > people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of people > > > who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I > > > suggest we > > > take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a > > > diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the > > > forum > > > as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then > > > there > > > will be peace amongst the hagglers. > > > > > > Fran Miller > > > > > > > > > Jurgen Henn wrote: > > > > > >> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you > > >> have to > > >> - add a "for sale" in the subject AND > > >> - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first > > >> > > >> J?rgen > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Francis M. Miller wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was > > >>> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years > > >>> ago > > >>> there was a lot of really good technical information being > > >>> posted. Those > > >>> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of > > >>> Lemons" has > > >>> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used > > >>> car lot > > >>> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Alicia wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably > > >>>> knows a > > >>>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. > > >>>> > > >>>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested > > >>>> in? Why > > >>>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even > > >>>> though > > >>>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't > > >>>> apply. STILL > > >>>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia > > >>>> > > >>>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good > > >>>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, > > >>>>> engine > > >>>>> tuned for biodiesel > > >>>>> > > >>>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. > > >>>>> Photos > > >>>>> available. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From john.bonitz at gmail.com Mon Sep 24 12:24:18 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:24:18 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] This list is what YOU make it. Message-ID: <84a57a420709240924u12df764fsbb3570c95e8b84c3@mail.gmail.com> Dear folks interested in biofuels, Perhaps it's stating the obvious, but I believe that this list is what we as individuals make it to be. Like any community, it is a product of participation. This being said, the list was created here in Chatham County, NC by a group of homebrew biodiesel enthusiasts. The orginal subscribers were students in a series of community college classes on biofuels. This necessarily implies that there may be occasional content which could be deemed parochial by folks who live somewhere other than the Piedmont region of North Carolina. Since those early years, we Carolinians have been honored to gain subscribers from all over the country, and perhaps the world. Some lurk, some participate, everyone gets something out of it. But the bottom line is that it is free. (I'm reminded of the saying about looking a gift horse in the mouth.) While the original founders are busy running a million-gallon-per-year biodiesel plant, let's all pitch-in and post the sorts of info (or questions) that we'd like to read. Alternatively, the suggestions about the delete key are helpful. Sincerely, John -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ P.S. To paraphrase Smokey the Bear, "Only YOU can unsubscribe from this list!" To my knowledge, our list admininstrators do not respond to "unsubscribe requests" posted to the list. You can do it yourself right here: http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group Scroll to the bottom where it says "To unsubscribe from Biofuels_Interest_Group, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options enter your subscription email address:" From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Sep 24 13:20:55 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:20:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] South Hill residents raise concerns over proposed biodiesel plant in Chesapeake Message-ID: <1491A02F-FCD0-4808-9608-B18B54CBDD2A@blast.com> story here: http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=7086342&nav=23ii From wooster at coastalnet.com Mon Sep 24 18:05:41 2007 From: wooster at coastalnet.com (wooster at coastalnet.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:05:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales Message-ID: <28953321.1190671542026.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I like that idea as well. I appreciate the assistance that I have gotten on this site. And I don't see the big deal about posting cars. If you make biodiesel it helps to have a car to burn it in. and sometimes these vehicles are not the easiest to find. -----Original Message----- >From: oakleaf1 at charter.net >Sent: Sep 24, 2007 10:49 AM >To: Tami Schwerin , "Francis M. Miller" >Cc: Jurgen Henn , biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales > >I agree with putting a 'FOR SALE:" in the subject line. If you want to open it, you can; while giving you the option to just delete. > >Randy > >---- Tami Schwerin wrote: >> In order to use biodiesel, you need a diesel vehicle to run it. I >> vote you keep the car information. >> It's a great service and there is a HUGE scarcity of vehicles around >> here. It's great to learn about >> the technical, and it is even greater to run biodiesel and live your >> philosophy. >> >> >> Tami Schwerin >> tami at blast.com >> 919-444-9300 >> http://www.theabundancefoundation.org >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Francis M. Miller wrote: >> >> > Jurgen: >> > That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the last >> > ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the >> > bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large number of >> > people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of people >> > who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I >> > suggest we >> > take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a >> > diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the >> > forum >> > as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then >> > there >> > will be peace amongst the hagglers. >> > >> > Fran Miller >> > >> > >> > Jurgen Henn wrote: >> > >> >> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for sale, you >> >> have to >> >> - add a "for sale" in the subject AND >> >> - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first >> >> >> >> J?rgen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Francis M. Miller wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if there was >> >>> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years >> >>> ago >> >>> there was a lot of really good technical information being >> >>> posted. Those >> >>> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of >> >>> Lemons" has >> >>> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used >> >>> car lot >> >>> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran Miller. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Alicia wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably >> >>>> knows a >> >>>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. >> >>>> >> >>>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested >> >>>> in? Why >> >>>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even >> >>>> though >> >>>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't >> >>>> apply. STILL >> >>>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia >> >>>> >> >>>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. automatic, good >> >>>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, >> >>>>> engine >> >>>>> tuned for biodiesel >> >>>>> >> >>>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. >> >>>>> Photos >> >>>>> available. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From patjamie23 at isp.com Mon Sep 24 19:41:15 2007 From: patjamie23 at isp.com (patjamie23 at isp.com) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:41:15 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] car sales Message-ID: <816dc6716b06b95f9a9d8027c463abc7@isp.com> I am for it! From francismiller at comcast.net Mon Sep 24 20:48:37 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:48:37 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] car sales In-Reply-To: <816dc6716b06b95f9a9d8027c463abc7@isp.com> References: <816dc6716b06b95f9a9d8027c463abc7@isp.com> Message-ID: <46F85AE5.5080505@comcast.net> Dear Gang: The vote has been tallied and the used car folks win. Out here in Colorado, far removed from the parochial interests where the Scotts-Irish still hold sway, there is a cable company that has a commercial. Ralph, becomes highly inebriated and goes on a bender where he gets tatooed like tiger. Big, black stripes that cover his whole body. When he sobers up he calls the tatoo parlor to see what he can do about it. Not getting satisfaction, he decides to get digital telephone service and recalls the tatoo parlor. The tatoo parlor owner, an Asian, answers and says to Ralph, "I told you that tattoos are permanent." Ralph, still not getting the answer he wants, says, "You don't understand, I am calling you on my new digital telephone". The parlor owners says, "Ralph, I TOLD YOU, TATTOOS ARE PERMANENT, YOU TIGER NOW", and hangs up. You are now a used car lot and the law of lemons has left you with a community of like-minded people. Fran Miller patjamie23 at isp.com wrote: >I am for it! > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From CConnor at luckstone.com Tue Sep 25 13:07:47 2007 From: CConnor at luckstone.com (Chris . Connor) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:07:47 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] car sales In-Reply-To: <46F85AE5.5080505@comcast.net> Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B50EDDDB81@5825-ml.luck.net> I am really sorry that some have chosen to judge our group as nothing more than a used car lot and a bunch of lemons. But if what this list has been over the past 18 months - to use my southern mountain slang -- "I are one!" Over the short time I have been skulking around the shadows, this group has been many things - most all of them good. The title speaks for itself - Biofuels Interest Group. I believe that interest in biofuels is not just hyper-technical information about the actual production of fuel, but it is also a grass-roots advocacy for making better decisions about our lives and how it affects the world around us. Two years ago, my little mind did not know anything about biofuels, and didn't care. Now, thanks to a newspaper article, the people who started this list, the supportive and informative community they brought together, I am different. Can I share that with others and make the community bigger? Yes! Shouldn't we share this space with all forms of biofuels interest? YES! There are those that have the tech questions and this is the place for that. The advocacy part takes many forms. If it comes in the form of an ad for a diesel car, that converts one person to something that is much more fuel efficient. Good! If they make the jump to biofuel. Better!! No drop of rain thinks that it is responsible for the flood. Maybe the BIG group can start the flood of biofuels, one drop at a time. Regards, Chris PS - Wish I could have found a car on the list about 13 months ago. I would not have had to drive 400 miles to get one! -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Francis M. Miller Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:49 PM To: patjamie23 at isp.com Cc: BIG Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] car sales Dear Gang: The vote has been tallied and the used car folks win. Out here in Colorado, far removed from the parochial interests where the Scotts-Irish still hold sway, there is a cable company that has a commercial. Ralph, becomes highly inebriated and goes on a bender where he gets tatooed like tiger. Big, black stripes that cover his whole body. When he sobers up he calls the tatoo parlor to see what he can do about it. Not getting satisfaction, he decides to get digital telephone service and recalls the tatoo parlor. The tatoo parlor owner, an Asian, answers and says to Ralph, "I told you that tattoos are permanent." Ralph, still not getting the answer he wants, says, "You don't understand, I am calling you on my new digital telephone". The parlor owners says, "Ralph, I TOLD YOU, TATTOOS ARE PERMANENT, YOU TIGER NOW", and hangs up. You are now a used car lot and the law of lemons has left you with a community of like-minded people. Fran Miller patjamie23 at isp.com wrote: >I am for it! > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. ______________________________________________________________________ From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Sep 25 18:52:37 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:52:37 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] suggestion re. car sales In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0709240757j611a77cv53d21b11194ec715@mail.gmail.com> References: <6B5DA2C5-BDA5-4D9C-9096-FFC10C332A20@blast.com> <20070924104909.OGTZ2.39973.root@fepweb07> <4c758e6d0709240757j611a77cv53d21b11194ec715@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0AF2A2E8-C7A6-4969-8253-93B54D9A8A93@blast.com> Hello Big list, This is your current list administrator, Rachel. I am open to suggestions on how this list can best serve the community's needs. Currently there are many biodiesel/svo forums on the internet that provide the information below for the biofuels community. These two specifically are well known forums: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc http://www.biodieselnow.com/ I am not interested in duplicating these efforts. Originally the BIg list started as class email list for the biofuels classes at CCCC in Pittsboro,NC. The class list became so populated that we decided to make it a listserve. The purpose behind this listserve is a networking tool for people interested in biofuels. When you joined the listserve this mission was spelled out for all who signed up: "Our goal is to further information sharing about biofuels throughout the Southeast and North Carolina. It is important to have a place to network with others who are producing, using or researching biofuels." Posting information about diesel vehicles for sale/wanted,etc is completely within the scope of this list. Thanks, Rachel Burton Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop 919-321-8260 rachel at biofuels.coop On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:57 AM, Cameron Conover wrote: > It sounds like to me it is time to graduate from a mail list to an > internet Forum, someone could host a website and put up a Forum then > inside the forum you can have different categories for people to read > different threads in and respond to what gets them going there. > > Categories might include: > Diesel engine tech > Reactor builds/ tech > Car classifieds > equipment classifieds > SVO Conversions > Fuel Chemistry > Biofuels news/main forum > > Mailing lists are sort-of 1999 > > Cheers, > Cameron > > On 9/24/07, oakleaf1 at charter.net wrote: >> I agree with putting a 'FOR SALE:" in the subject line. If you >> want to open it, you can; while giving you the option to just delete. >> >> Randy >> >> ---- Tami Schwerin wrote: >>> In order to use biodiesel, you need a diesel vehicle to run it. I >>> vote you keep the car information. >>> It's a great service and there is a HUGE scarcity of vehicles around >>> here. It's great to learn about >>> the technical, and it is even greater to run biodiesel and live your >>> philosophy. >>> >>> >>> Tami Schwerin >>> tami at blast.com >>> 919-444-9300 >>> http://www.theabundancefoundation.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Francis M. Miller wrote: >>> >>>> Jurgen: >>>> That might work but I suspect the people brokering cars are the >>>> last >>>> ones who will come up with something intelligent to say about the >>>> bio-diesel science and technology. The problem is the large >>>> number of >>>> people who have bailed out over the years leaving a residue of >>>> people >>>> who just don't get it. It's like Animal Farm for Biodiesel. I >>>> suggest we >>>> take a vote. Everyone who wants the biofuels interest list to be a >>>> diesel flea market vote one way and everyone who wants to keep the >>>> forum >>>> as a serious place to discuss biofuels vote with their feet. Then >>>> there >>>> will be peace amongst the hagglers. >>>> >>>> Fran Miller >>>> >>>> >>>> Jurgen Henn wrote: >>>> >>>>> How about we just say that if you want to post your car for >>>>> sale, you >>>>> have to >>>>> - add a "for sale" in the subject AND >>>>> - post biofuels-relevant info/question(s) first >>>>> >>>>> J?rgen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Francis M. Miller wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> It wouldn't be so bad to have an occasional car listing if >>>>>> there was >>>>>> more substantive stuff. I remind everyone that two or three years >>>>>> ago >>>>>> there was a lot of really good technical information being >>>>>> posted. Those >>>>>> people have resigned enmass as the classic economic"Law of >>>>>> Lemons" has >>>>>> driven them away. Those of you who want this site to be a used >>>>>> car lot >>>>>> will likely get their wish. It is on a slippery slope. Fran >>>>>> Miller. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alicia wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The added plus that someone who knows about this list probably >>>>>>> knows a >>>>>>> bit more than the average joe about diesels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> AND why is it so hard just to delete what you're not interested >>>>>>> in? Why >>>>>>> complain to everyone else. I LIKE everything on this list, even >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> I'm from Madison, WI and there's a whole lot that doesn't >>>>>>> apply. STILL >>>>>>> wonderful to knwo it's happening. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks list keepers! Alicia >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mary Beth Cahoon wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2002 blue Jetta TDI sedan for Sale, mileage 90944. >>>>>>>> automatic, good >>>>>>>> condition, cruse, power windows, power locks, am/fm/cd player, >>>>>>>> engine >>>>>>>> tuned for biodiesel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> VIN 3VWSP69M72M004315 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Asking $12,000. Contact Jan nichjan at gmail.com for more info. >>>>>>>> Photos >>>>>>>> available. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From shiftlink at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 19:30:03 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:30:03 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bosch Nozzle service Message-ID: <4c758e6d0709251630i1e8c9ea2o1408d7ff9ea73abf@mail.gmail.com> I've got a car with leaking injection Nozzles, does anyone know of a place that will refurb Bosch Injection Nozzles? The car is a Peugot 504. :) I'm thinking that it's going to be kind-of hard to find new replacements for this car, although maybe some Nozzles I have off of a VW diesel will fit, I'm afraid they wont flow enough fuel for the Turbo 2.3L on the Peugot. Maybe nozzles from a Turbo VW but those were all only 1.6L engines. Thanks, Cameron From perkinsfam at yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 20:18:01 2007 From: perkinsfam at yahoo.com (Brian Perkins) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] wanted: VO in High Point Message-ID: <222507.42803.qm@web60325.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, It seems that most of the VO worth having in High Point is being collected by a single individual who is then selling it as either filtered VO or Biodiesel. (More power to him!) But, I need a more steady supply and all attempts to contact the individual have failed (phone number no longer in service, web site no longer registered, etc). Right now, I only have one source and availability is sporadic. Any ideas? Thanks, Brian ____________________________________________________________________________________ Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us Wed Sep 26 01:01:25 2007 From: lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us (lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:01:25 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Larry M Petrovick/CDS/Wake County is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 09/25/2007 and will not return until 10/01/2007. I will respond to your message when I return on 10/01/07 From tim_turner at ncsu.edu Wed Sep 26 10:15:08 2007 From: tim_turner at ncsu.edu (Tim Turner) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:15:08 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] car sales In-Reply-To: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B50EDDDB81@5825-ml.luck.net> References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B50EDDDB81@5825-ml.luck.net> Message-ID: <46FA696C.7030509@ncsu.edu> All, This is a fabulous list which I really enjoy being a part of. I thought this last discussion was pretty unpleasant and I apologize if I added to the unpleasantness by asking the moderator to intervene. I just don't think that the original poster of the car ad deserved to be blasted for following what has been common practice on this list since the beginning. For me, when someone starts saying that anyone who posts a car ad is stupid, it's time to object. But I'm sure I could have phrased it better. John and others have pointed out that the list has grown beyond the original NC base. I have no idea how many members there are from elsewhere, but if these people feel that the car info is not of general interest, I wouldn't have a problem with a separate list for car ads such as already exists for the biofuels workers. To put it another way, is there anyone from outside North Carolina who feels that the car info is helpful and of general interest? Thanks, Tim From jcbaron at verizon.net Wed Sep 26 11:15:30 2007 From: jcbaron at verizon.net (Jim Baron) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:15:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] car sales Message-ID: <26674130.18399881190819730478.JavaMail.root@vms069.mailsrvcs.net> >From: Tim Turner >Date: 2007/09/26 Wed AM 09:15:08 CDT >Cc: BIG >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] car sales >All, > >John and others have pointed out that the list has grown beyond the >original NC base. I have no idea how many members there are from >elsewhere, but if these people feel that the car info is not of general >interest, I wouldn't have a problem with a separate list for car ads >such as already exists for the biofuels workers. To put it another way, >is there anyone from outside North Carolina who feels that the car info >is helpful and of general interest? >Thanks, >Tim > Well, I'm not all that far out of NC, in WMSBG, VA, but I do like to read the car offers -- in fact, I may someday want to put my '86 BMW 524TD in the hands of some biodiesel nut, or another peanut oil blender like me. Jim Baron Senex From tavanas at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 16:18:48 2007 From: tavanas at gmail.com (t avanas) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:18:48 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bosch Nozzle service References: <4c758e6d0709251630i1e8c9ea2o1408d7ff9ea73abf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <057c01c8007a$737cfbc0$6801a8c0@amer.cisco.com> diesel injection of cary (http://www.localcardir.com/profile/38527.html) -saeed one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Conover" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:30 PM Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bosch Nozzle service > I've got a car with leaking injection Nozzles, does anyone know of a > place that will refurb Bosch Injection Nozzles? The car is a Peugot > 504. :) I'm thinking that it's going to be kind-of hard to find new > replacements for this car, although maybe some Nozzles I have off of a > VW diesel will fit, I'm afraid they wont flow enough fuel for the > Turbo 2.3L on the Peugot. Maybe nozzles from a Turbo VW but those > were all only 1.6L engines. > > Thanks, > Cameron > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 17:52:08 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:52:08 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] bio-butanol better than ethanol as gasoline-displacer? Message-ID: <84a57a420709261452q79555327l6143253888b68d41@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, Here's a question for the chemists, ecologists, and air-pollution experts among us: Hypothetically, how much of a health and environmental risk would be posed by widespread use of bio-butanol as substitute/blend for gasoline? I have heard it said that butanol is worse than MTBE. Any elightenment offered would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Butanol ? The Coming Alternative Fuel or "Peak Ethanol" September 25, 2007 | For a couple of years we've been slaves to the ethanol run up into the fuel market. Federal programs geared to support it, protect it and promote it have hidden a far better choice. Butanol is also an alcohol as is ethanol, but it's a different molecule with very different properties. The quick explanation is the molecule of ethanol is 2 carbon atoms with hydrogen and butanol is 4 carbon atoms with hydrogen. That doubling up the carbon increases the density of the fuel getting much closer to gasoline and solves a host of other problems. While ethanol is getting clobbered in the press and blog spheres of late with some but not fully valid complaints, butanol has been quietly getting more traction. For decades the agricultural community and the huge agri business companies have been pushing ethanol, likely because the technology has been around for thousands of years. But the "ethanol peak" is probably right about now. The quick rundown of the problems: In the US ethanol is mostly made from corn which is also a food raw material and animal feed for human food protein. The corn needs the costly and natural gas rich input of anhydrous ammonia and the manufacturing needs even more natural gas or worse, coal fuel to heat the alcohol mash to distill out the ethanol. The end product is about 60 to 70% of the energy density of gasoline and is corrosive to commonly used metals in auto fuel systems and dissolves some plastic materials. Butanol has been researched from the start using the easily acquired plant starches that can be made into sugar. The advantage is that the current butanol people recognized early on that cellulose would be a necessity for market growth. It appears that researchers are using enzymes rather than yeast for the bioconversion, which may simplify the jump over to cellulose feed stocks. Most of the proposed feedstock plants are less demanding for synthetic fertilizers and petroleum based pesticides. The available information about the proposed processes leads one to think that the distillation may well not need to be done at all. The end product is 90 to 95% of the energy density of gasoline, which means that any fuel injected engine and most carbureted engines would use butanol alone or in a mix with gasoline. Butanol isn't corrosive or a solvent of the common plastics in fuel systems. Best of all, butanol doesn't mix with water and can be pipelined in existing systems. Butanol on the other hand is just now becoming a plant-based feedstock for fuel use. Right now British petroleum and DuPont (Dupont owns the huge seed company Pioneer Hybrids, a major corn seed innovator) are refurbishing an ethanol facility in Great Britain to make butanol. See: http://www2.dupont.com/Biofuels/en_US/ A gentleman in Ohio has licensed of some University of Ohio patents and is working on funding a pilot production facility. See: http://www.butanol.com/index.html There is a project under way in Alabama with another technology for using cellulosic feedstock. See: http://www.baer-enterprises.com/biofuels.html And there are news reports that Chevron is looking into biobutanol with Georgia Tech and Weyerhaeuser using forestry products for feedstock. There are some serious people looking into butanol. Opposite that is the information that California has allocated funds for emission research using butanol. There doesn't seem to be any EPA sourced reports on tailpipe emissions but the agency has awarded at least one research grant for butanol. Here are some fascinating links to expand your knowledge of butanol. Honda and Research Institute of Innovative Technology are reported to be using bacteria to produce butanol: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/08/rite-develops-c.html Gevo, a California Institute of Technology spinoff, the infamous Khosla Ventures and now Virgin Fuels are moving from ethanol to butanol research: http://biopact.com/2007/07/gevo-receives-funding-from-virgin-fuels.html Global Energy and Ocean Technology are reported to have been working on an idea of electrochemical production of butanol using CO2, water, and electricity yielding butanol, water and oxygen. Now looking for more funding: http://www.oceanethanol.com/site/Ocean%20Ethanol/Ocean%20Ethanol.html Energy Quest is looking into gasification to make butanol: http://www.syngasinternational.com/news1.html The Brits are developing the next generation of "bugs" for the next generation of butanol production: http://biopact.com/2007/01/green-biologics-awarded-855000-to_22.html The leading blog is: http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2006/05/bio-butanol.html Here is a list of companies and research institutions working in the field: http://www.cpbr.org/membership.html So it was a busy summer for butanol. With the Chicago Board of Trade offering up ethanol futures contracts one would have thought that ethanol is a firmly entrenched alternative fuel. Yet as we discussed, it is most likely a dead end to be replaced by a far better choice. Keep in mind that the farmer will still be growing crops for fuel, although likely not corn, and will make a lot more money per acre because there is nearly a third again as many BTUs in butanol vs. ethanol. Ethanol plants are well positioned by location and facilities in place to migrate to butanol if they can find the professional expertise and make the engineering transition. We consumers can look for perhaps as much as 30 or 35% of the crude imported for making gasoline to be displaced by butanol with little or no noticeable negative economic impact. From info at theforestfoundation.org Wed Sep 26 18:39:14 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:39:14 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FOR SALE: '05 TDI Jetta Wagon price reduction Message-ID: <46FADF92.6070005@theforestfoundation.org> Hey Everyone, Sorry about the car post again, but these wagons are hard to find and want to see it get a good home. Blue Book is $17,500, but Blue Book does not reflect well diesels longevity nor the rarity of the wagon. So the new price is $19,000 Thanks, Marc From skepticbill at mac.com Wed Sep 26 23:44:55 2007 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:44:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Headline: Biomass Energy Boosts Nitrous Oxide Greenhouse Gas Production In-Reply-To: <84a57a420709261452q79555327l6143253888b68d41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey all, I ran across this issue recently and thought about posting it to BIG for debate/discussion. Below is a small outtake from a website that has a lot of interesting explorations of future trends. Look, I love using biodiesel for a number of reasons but I'm no chemist and I won't pretend to be. When I took my class at CCCC on biodiesel I remember hearing that NOX was an issue. Apparently it may be more of an issue than we initially thought. Can the folks out there who know their chemistry refute this? ----------------article snippet------------------ from: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/004610.html Growing and burning many biofuels may actually raise rather than lower greenhouse gas emissions, a new study led by Nobel prize-winning chemist Paul Crutzen has shown.1 The findings come in the wake of a recent OECD report, which warned nations not to rush headlong into growing energy crops because they cause food shortages and damage biodiversity. Crutzen and colleagues have calculated that growing some of the most commonly used biofuel crops releases around twice the amount of the potent greenhouse gas nitrous oxide (N2O) than previously thought - wiping out any benefits from not using fossil fuels and, worse, probably contributing to global warming. The work appears in Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics and is currently subject to open review. ----------------end snippet------------------ As biofuels become more popular I think you will see more counter-arguments like this. We need to be able to respond quickly, factually and as unemotionally as possible. As my friend Jerry Stifleman who does green marketing says, "The truth is your best tool." Thanks in advance for any input from this "parochial, Southern, Scotch-Irish, biodiesel and alternative fuels enthusiast." -Bill O'Luanaigh- From info at theforestfoundation.org Thu Sep 27 09:49:43 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:49:43 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Headline: Biomass Energy Boosts Nitrous Oxide Greenhouse Gas Production In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46FBB4F7.7060208@theforestfoundation.org> The problem is not the biofuel itself, but how it is made, the process of feedstock production. Canola and other oilseeds are currently produced in energy intensive manners using petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides. The lurch to biofuels and this unintended consequence of greenhouse gas emission is related to market externalization of true costs of using petroleum (natural gas in the case of nitrogen fertilizers). The system is broken and thus these associated problems keep arising. Certification of fuel from sustainable sources, like recycled waste oil, localized production, etc. may help with allowing consumers to drive markets. But until we fix the big problem, by slapping a pollution/carbon tax on petrol, we'll continue to get the unintended consequences to our addiction. Oh yeah, and we all need to ride our bikes more. :) Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > I ran across this issue recently and thought about posting it to BIG for > debate/discussion. Below is a small outtake from a website that has a lot of > interesting explorations of future trends. > > Look, I love using biodiesel for a number of reasons but I'm no chemist and > I won't pretend to be. When I took my class at CCCC on biodiesel I remember > hearing that NOX was an issue. Apparently it may be more of an issue than we > initially thought. Can the folks out there who know their chemistry refute > this? > > ----------------article snippet------------------ > from: > http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/004610.html > > Growing and burning many biofuels may actually raise rather than lower > greenhouse gas emissions, a new study led by Nobel prize-winning chemist > Paul Crutzen has shown.1 The findings come in the wake of a recent OECD > report, which warned nations not to rush headlong into growing energy crops > because they cause food shortages and damage biodiversity. > > Crutzen and colleagues have calculated that growing some of the most > commonly used biofuel crops releases around twice the amount of the potent > greenhouse gas nitrous oxide (N2O) than previously thought - wiping out any > benefits from not using fossil fuels and, worse, probably contributing to > global warming. The work appears in Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics and is > currently subject to open review. > ----------------end snippet------------------ > > As biofuels become more popular I think you will see more counter-arguments > like this. We need to be able to respond quickly, factually and as > unemotionally as possible. As my friend Jerry Stifleman who does green > marketing says, "The truth is your best tool." > > Thanks in advance for any input from this "parochial, Southern, > Scotch-Irish, biodiesel and alternative fuels enthusiast." > > -Bill O'Luanaigh- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From shipyardphil at yahoo.com Thu Sep 27 10:26:07 2007 From: shipyardphil at yahoo.com (Phil Carter) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Headline: Biomass Energy Boosts Nitrous Oxide Greenhouse Gas Production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <475993.18482.qm@web50806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I feel that on balance, the amount of reductions for other particulates especially after combustion, makes up for the amount of nitrogen DiOxide released from the harvest of plant materials. Although I don't know the effects N2O released. B100 B20 CO -45% -11% CO2 -48% -12% PM -47% -12% NOx +10% -2% to +2% PAH -80% -13% nPAH -90% -50% Ozone -50% -10% Potential of Speciated Hydrocarbons Source: California Air Resources Board, National Biodiesel Board and A Comprehensive Analysis of Biodiesel Impacts on Exhaust Emissions, United States Environmental Protection Agency, EPA420-P-02-001, October 2002. Phil --- "Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)" wrote: > Hey all, > > I ran across this issue recently and thought about > posting it to BIG for > debate/discussion. Below is a small outtake from a > website that has a lot of > interesting explorations of future trends. > > Look, I love using biodiesel for a number of reasons > but I'm no chemist and > I won't pretend to be. When I took my class at CCCC > on biodiesel I remember > hearing that NOX was an issue. Apparently it may be > more of an issue than we > initially thought. Can the folks out there who know > their chemistry refute > this? > > ----------------article snippet------------------ > from: > http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/004610.html > > Growing and burning many biofuels may actually raise > rather than lower > greenhouse gas emissions, a new study led by Nobel > prize-winning chemist > Paul Crutzen has shown.1 The findings come in the > wake of a recent OECD > report, which warned nations not to rush headlong > into growing energy crops > because they cause food shortages and damage > biodiversity. > > Crutzen and colleagues have calculated that growing > some of the most > commonly used biofuel crops releases around twice > the amount of the potent > greenhouse gas nitrous oxide (N2O) than previously > thought - wiping out any > benefits from not using fossil fuels and, worse, > probably contributing to > global warming. The work appears in Atmospheric > Chemistry and Physics and is > currently subject to open review. > ----------------end snippet------------------ > > As biofuels become more popular I think you will see > more counter-arguments > like this. We need to be able to respond quickly, > factually and as > unemotionally as possible. As my friend Jerry > Stifleman who does green > marketing says, "The truth is your best tool." > > Thanks in advance for any input from this > "parochial, Southern, > Scotch-Irish, biodiesel and alternative fuels > enthusiast." > > -Bill O'Luanaigh- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From markj.ambrose at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 10:43:47 2007 From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:43:47 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] bio-butanol better than ethanol as gasoline-displacer? In-Reply-To: <84a57a420709261452q79555327l6143253888b68d41@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a57a420709261452q79555327l6143253888b68d41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46FBC1A3.8070201@gmail.com> I'll give what little I know to get the discussion started. Ethanol is C2H5OH H H | | H - C - C - OH | | H H Butanol is C4H9OH H H H H | | | | H - C - C - C - C- OH | | | | H H H H Both are oxygenated fuels. Because of the longer carbon chain, butanol behaves more like a hydrocarbon. It doesn't absorb water the way ethanol does, so it has the potential to be transported using the same pipe infrastructure as is used for gasoline. Being a larger molecule, butanol is less volatile than ethanol. Now I am not an expert on organic chem, and I know you can get some odd reactions happening in the cylinder of an engine if combustion is incomplete, but it looks to me that if butanol is fully oxidized you will just have CO2 and water. I don't see how its use would produce especially toxic emissions. -- Mark John Bonitz wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Here's a question for the chemists, ecologists, and air-pollution > experts among us: > > Hypothetically, how much of a health and environmental risk would be > posed by widespread use of bio-butanol as substitute/blend for > gasoline? > > I have heard it said that butanol is worse than MTBE. Any > elightenment offered would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > From tim_turner at ncsu.edu Thu Sep 27 11:26:38 2007 From: tim_turner at ncsu.edu (Tim Turner) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:26:38 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] bio-butanol better than ethanol as gasoline-displacer? In-Reply-To: <46FBC1A3.8070201@gmail.com> References: <84a57a420709261452q79555327l6143253888b68d41@mail.gmail.com> <46FBC1A3.8070201@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46FBCBAE.9030506@ncsu.edu> Mark is right that in the ideal overall reaction for butanol combustion, only CO2 and H2O are formed. I also agree with his comments about butanol properties, which could provide a big advantage over ethanol. Unfortunately, pollutants can still be produced because even the simplest combustion reaction involves hundreds of tiny reaction steps, in which many different products are formed. btw, the ideal reactions for hydrocarbon fuels also produce only CO2 and H2O. So it all comes down to whether all the tiny little reaction steps add up exactly to the overall reaction Mark mentions. If not, you can get a lot of other compounds floating around. Carbon monoxide is a good example of incomplete combustion. Back in the 80's, I think I remember that there was a problem in Brazil with their ethanol-fueled cars producing formaldehyde emissions. Maybe someone else knows more about this, but I'm guessing you can clean up most of the emissions from alcohol fuels with catalytic converters. Yes? No? There was a nice summary paper on butanol posted on this list earlier. I'll see if I can dig it up tonight. Tim Mark J. Ambrose wrote: > I'll give what little I know to get the discussion started. > > Ethanol is C2H5OH > > H H > | | > H - C - C - OH > | | > H H > > Butanol is C4H9OH > > H H H H > | | | | > H - C - C - C - C- OH > | | | | > H H H H > > Both are oxygenated fuels. Because of the longer carbon chain, butanol > behaves more like a hydrocarbon. It doesn't absorb water the way > ethanol does, so it has the potential to be transported using the same > pipe infrastructure as is used for gasoline. Being a larger molecule, > butanol is less volatile than ethanol. > > Now I am not an expert on organic chem, and I know you can get some odd > reactions happening in the cylinder of an engine if combustion is > incomplete, but it looks to me that if butanol is fully oxidized you > will just have CO2 and water. I don't see how its use would produce > especially toxic emissions. > > -- Mark > > John Bonitz wrote: > >> Dear Friends, >> >> Here's a question for the chemists, ecologists, and air-pollution >> experts among us: >> >> Hypothetically, how much of a health and environmental risk would be >> posed by widespread use of bio-butanol as substitute/blend for >> gasoline? >> >> I have heard it said that butanol is worse than MTBE. Any >> elightenment offered would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From markj.ambrose at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 11:26:50 2007 From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:26:50 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Headline: Biomass Energy Boosts Nitrous Oxide Greenhouse Gas Production In-Reply-To: <46FBB4F7.7060208@theforestfoundation.org> References: <46FBB4F7.7060208@theforestfoundation.org> Message-ID: <46FBCBBA.2070203@gmail.com> This does relate to NOx production in agricultural systems (I hope I get the details right because this is from memory of talks I heard a while back). And it is all very complex because soil chemistry is complex. In general, I recall there are 2 major NOx "sources" associated with agriculture. (1) When land is converted from other land cover (esp. forest) to agriculture there will be a significant amount of NOx released as the soil chemistry changes because of sunlight hitting the soil and tilling bringing more oxygen into the soil. (2) There will be NOx emissions associated with nitrogen fertilization of the soil. I believe this occurs whether you use chemical fertilizers or organic, but I emissions are higher with chemical fertilizers. What makes it complex is that the level of NOx coming off of an acre of farm land will depend on the climate, soil moisture levels, the amount of organic matter in the soil, fertilization levels, the crop being grown, and the amount of tilling done in the ag system (among other things). I think organic farming will tend to produce less NOx because no chemical fertilizers are used, but it may not always be the case. If anyone really wants to read more on the subject, try the following article: http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev.energy.21.1.311?cookieSet=1 or this site: http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=205058 BTW, remember that NOx is bad in several different ways: (1) It is an ozone precursor. (2) It is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than is CO2. (3) NO2 is harmful in itself when inhaled. (4) NOx reacts with volatile organic compounds in the air to produce smog. -- Mark > Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> I ran across this issue recently and thought about posting it to BIG for >> debate/discussion. Below is a small outtake from a website that has a lot of >> interesting explorations of future trends. >> >> Look, I love using biodiesel for a number of reasons but I'm no chemist and >> I won't pretend to be. When I took my class at CCCC on biodiesel I remember >> hearing that NOX was an issue. Apparently it may be more of an issue than we >> initially thought. Can the folks out there who know their chemistry refute >> this? >> >> ----------------article snippet------------------ >> from: >> http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/004610.html >> >> Growing and burning many biofuels may actually raise rather than lower >> greenhouse gas emissions, a new study led by Nobel prize-winning chemist >> Paul Crutzen has shown.1 The findings come in the wake of a recent OECD >> report, which warned nations not to rush headlong into growing energy crops >> because they cause food shortages and damage biodiversity. >> >> Crutzen and colleagues have calculated that growing some of the most >> commonly used biofuel crops releases around twice the amount of the potent >> greenhouse gas nitrous oxide (N2O) than previously thought - wiping out any >> benefits from not using fossil fuels and, worse, probably contributing to >> global warming. The work appears in Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics and is >> currently subject to open review. >> ----------------end snippet------------------ >> >> As biofuels become more popular I think you will see more counter-arguments >> like this. We need to be able to respond quickly, factually and as >> unemotionally as possible. As my friend Jerry Stifleman who does green >> marketing says, "The truth is your best tool." >> >> Thanks in advance for any input from this "parochial, Southern, >> Scotch-Irish, biodiesel and alternative fuels enthusiast." >> >> -Bill O'Luanaigh- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> From jdorff at nc.rr.com Thu Sep 27 11:30:00 2007 From: jdorff at nc.rr.com (Jimmy Dorff) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:30:00 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] bio-butanol better than ethanol as gasoline-displacer? In-Reply-To: <46FBC1A3.8070201@gmail.com> References: <84a57a420709261452q79555327l6143253888b68d41@mail.gmail.com> <46FBC1A3.8070201@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46FBCC78.6000507@nc.rr.com> Mark J. Ambrose wrote: > Now I am not an expert on organic chem, and I know you can get some odd > reactions happening in the cylinder of an engine if combustion is > incomplete, but it looks to me that if butanol is fully oxidized you > will just have CO2 and water. I don't see how its use would produce > especially toxic emissions. I think the concern is over the toxicity of the fuel itself and not the combustion products. There is some info on this very pro-butanol, commercial site: http://www.butanol.com/page4.html -Jimmy From biodiesel at yovo.info Thu Sep 27 11:46:31 2007 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:46:31 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Headline: Biomass Energy Boosts Nitrous Oxide Greenhouse Gas Production In-Reply-To: <46FBB4F7.7060208@theforestfoundation.org> References: <46FBB4F7.7060208@theforestfoundation.org> Message-ID: <46FBD057.5040906@yovo.info> Exactly - it's not the fuel - it's how it's made. One problem with the marketing of "biofuels" is the bad labeling. What, I think, most of us are interested in is not actually "biofuels" or "biodiesel" per se, but really "sustainable fuel" and "clean energy." Biodiesel in and of itself is neither. (Nor is bio-ethanol) But it's a heck of a step in the right direction, I think, especially compared to petro-fuels. But if the bio-fuel/bio-energy production is based on unsustainable feedstock production, it's certainly not a great solution, either. Biofuels, right now, represents a revolution in the energy sector. It helps diversify the fuel choices, creates competition, and puts power-full :) resources in the hands of individuals and communities. A community with a well-developed local fuel-production infrastructure in healthier in many ways, and more resilient during crisis (petro-fuel shortages). I can just hope that smart folks like Paul Crutzen don't just point out problems with biofuels, but that they also recognize the opportunity biofuels represent. I really hope that they put their big brains to work to SOLVE the PROBLEMS! Grease be with you! Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J?rgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Info -TFF wrote: > The problem is not the biofuel itself, but how it is made, the process > of feedstock production. Canola and other oilseeds are currently > produced in energy intensive manners using petroleum based fertilizers > and pesticides. The lurch to biofuels and this unintended consequence > of greenhouse gas emission is related to market externalization of true > costs of using petroleum (natural gas in the case of nitrogen > fertilizers). The system is broken and thus these associated problems > keep arising. Certification of fuel from sustainable sources, like > recycled waste oil, localized production, etc. may help with allowing > consumers to drive markets. But until we fix the big problem, by > slapping a pollution/carbon tax on petrol, we'll continue to get the > unintended consequences to our addiction. Oh yeah, and we all need to > ride our bikes more. :) > > Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> I ran across this issue recently and thought about posting it to BIG for >> debate/discussion. Below is a small outtake from a website that has a lot of >> interesting explorations of future trends. >> >> Look, I love using biodiesel for a number of reasons but I'm no chemist and >> I won't pretend to be. When I took my class at CCCC on biodiesel I remember >> hearing that NOX was an issue. Apparently it may be more of an issue than we >> initially thought. Can the folks out there who know their chemistry refute >> this? >> >> ----------------article snippet------------------ >> from: >> http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/004610.html >> >> Growing and burning many biofuels may actually raise rather than lower >> greenhouse gas emissions, a new study led by Nobel prize-winning chemist >> Paul Crutzen has shown.1 The findings come in the wake of a recent OECD >> report, which warned nations not to rush headlong into growing energy crops >> because they cause food shortages and damage biodiversity. >> >> Crutzen and colleagues have calculated that growing some of the most >> commonly used biofuel crops releases around twice the amount of the potent >> greenhouse gas nitrous oxide (N2O) than previously thought - wiping out any >> benefits from not using fossil fuels and, worse, probably contributing to >> global warming. The work appears in Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics and is >> currently subject to open review. >> ----------------end snippet------------------ >> >> As biofuels become more popular I think you will see more counter-arguments >> like this. We need to be able to respond quickly, factually and as >> unemotionally as possible. As my friend Jerry Stifleman who does green >> marketing says, "The truth is your best tool." >> >> Thanks in advance for any input from this "parochial, Southern, >> Scotch-Irish, biodiesel and alternative fuels enthusiast." >> >> -Bill O'Luanaigh- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From David.Little at nc.usda.gov Thu Sep 27 15:42:24 2007 From: David.Little at nc.usda.gov (Little, David - Wilson, NC) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:42:24 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] MTBE/butanol Message-ID: <1447032AC8D9F54AA935A2BEF04D86D9EA324F@MOSTLOUIS2S301.ageast.one.usda.gov> MTBE is a problem primarily when fuel leaks from storage tanks and MTBE finds its way into drinking water supplies. Check out this website: http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/ > I have heard it said that butanol is worse than MTBE. Any > elightenment offered would be greatly appreciated From mackin at email.unc.edu Thu Sep 27 18:33:39 2007 From: mackin at email.unc.edu (Will Mackin) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:33:39 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Headline: Biomass Energy Boosts Nitrous Oxide Greenhouse Gas Production In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7d554a8a57877956f9255ae122c74af9@email.unc.edu> This one is confusing. N20 (nitrous oxide) is a terrible greenhouse gas produced by overfertilization. NOx - which includes NO and NO2 - is a pollutant that causes ground level ozone, but not global warming (in fact, smog masks some of the greenhouse effect). On Sep 26, 2007, at 11:44 PM, Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > I ran across this issue recently and thought about posting it to BIG > for > debate/discussion. Below is a small outtake from a website that has a > lot of > interesting explorations of future trends. > > Look, I love using biodiesel for a number of reasons but I'm no > chemist and > I won't pretend to be. When I took my class at CCCC on biodiesel I > remember > hearing that NOX was an issue. Apparently it may be more of an issue > than we > initially thought. Can the folks out there who know their chemistry > refute > this? > > ----------------article snippet------------------ > from: > http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/004610.html > > Growing and burning many biofuels may actually raise rather than lower > greenhouse gas emissions, a new study led by Nobel prize-winning > chemist > Paul Crutzen has shown.1 The findings come in the wake of a recent OECD > report, which warned nations not to rush headlong into growing energy > crops > because they cause food shortages and damage biodiversity. > > Crutzen and colleagues have calculated that growing some of the most > commonly used biofuel crops releases around twice the amount of the > potent > greenhouse gas nitrous oxide (N2O) than previously thought - wiping > out any > benefits from not using fossil fuels and, worse, probably contributing > to > global warming. The work appears in Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics > and is > currently subject to open review. > ----------------end snippet------------------ > > As biofuels become more popular I think you will see more > counter-arguments > like this. We need to be able to respond quickly, factually and as > unemotionally as possible. As my friend Jerry Stifleman who does green > marketing says, "The truth is your best tool." > > Thanks in advance for any input from this "parochial, Southern, > Scotch-Irish, biodiesel and alternative fuels enthusiast." > > -Bill O'Luanaigh- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From ttsinc624 at juno.com Thu Sep 27 19:54:45 2007 From: ttsinc624 at juno.com (Mr. Turner) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:54:45 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fw: Reason Magazine - Hit & Run > Ozone Hole Science Revisited Message-ID: <20070927.195445.1672.0@webmail20.dca.untd.com> could this be right? Is ozone not being depleted? http://reason.com/blog/show/122712.html _____________________________________________________________ Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions. http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifUM7zqrBQ2Ni4jMafgbDSSJ5wMFSzLENBmuRB5kPaLK6CVk/ From mackin at email.unc.edu Thu Sep 27 22:45:48 2007 From: mackin at email.unc.edu (Will Mackin) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:45:48 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fw: Reason Magazine - Hit & Run > Ozone Hole Science Revisited In-Reply-To: <20070927.195445.1672.0@webmail20.dca.untd.com> References: <20070927.195445.1672.0@webmail20.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: To quote the article: Nothing currently suggests that the role of CFCs must be called into question, Rex stresses. "Overwhelming evidence still suggests that anthropogenic emissions of CFCs and halons are the reason for the ozone loss. But we would be on much firmer ground if we could write down the correct chemical reactions." This paper sounds like a case of atmospheric chemists trying to get their model perfect, not a rejection of the whole model of ozone depletion. On Sep 27, 2007, at 7:54 PM, Mr. Turner wrote: > > could this be right? Is ozone not being depleted? > > > http://reason.com/blog/show/122712.html > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions. > http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/ > Ioyw6iifUM7zqrBQ2Ni4jMafgbDSSJ5wMFSzLENBmuRB5kPaLK6CVk/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From David.Little at nc.usda.gov Fri Sep 28 08:56:45 2007 From: David.Little at nc.usda.gov (Little, David - Wilson, NC) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:56:45 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Nitric and Nitrous Oxides Message-ID: <1447032AC8D9F54AA935A2BEF04D86D90591A1@MOSTLOUIS2S301.ageast.one.usda.gov> There are two main conversions involving Nitrate (NO3) in soils that involve the forms of Nitrogen being discussed. The first is the conversion of Ammonium (NH4) to nitrate, known as nitrification. This is a natural bacterial process which converts Ammonium to Nitrite (NO2) and Nitrite to Nitrate (NH4-->NO2-->NO3). The second occurs when soils containing Nitrate become saturated for periods of time and bacteria run out of oxygen. The bacteria use an alternate source of oxygen, Nitrate in this case. The byproducts are Nitric Oxide (NO) at first and Nitrous Oxide (N2O) later (NO3-->NO + N2O). Both of these forms of Nitrogen are gaseous and Nitrous Oxide (N2O) is produced in much larger quantities than NO. Both begin after about 2 or 3 days of saturation. This process is known as denitrification. So, to clarify, these products occur naturally and at recommended fertilization rates, however, overfertilization will yield higher quantities of NO and N2O, naturally. As dry as it has been this year here, production of NO and N2O have probably been minimal. Dave On Sep 27, 2007, at 6:35 PM, Will Mackin wrote: This one is confusing. N20 (nitrous oxide) is a terrible greenhouse gas produced by overfertilization. NOx - which includes NO and NO2 - is a pollutant that causes ground level ozone, but not global warming (in fact, smog masks some of the greenhouse effect). From info at theforestfoundation.org Fri Sep 28 14:16:25 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:16:25 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fw: Reason Magazine - Hit & Run > Ozone Hole Science Revisited In-Reply-To: <20070927.195445.1672.0@webmail20.dca.untd.com> References: <20070927.195445.1672.0@webmail20.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <46FD44F9.3090105@theforestfoundation.org> Ozone is being depleted, the exact causal connection is complicated. So let's just not do anything about human impacts and just wait till the scientist can show the exact formation of cancer from tobacco, the planet warming from CO2, etc., etc. I would be skeptical about publications and reviews made from a website stating: "free minds and free markets." Ain't that "quaint," as Senior Gonzales would say. The metaphysical paradox of "freedom vs. determinism" hadn't bubbled up on these guys, and there is no such thing as a free market-- nothings' free in a Universe where entropy holds the trump card. Marc Mr. Turner wrote: > could this be right? Is ozone not being depleted? > > > http://reason.com/blog/show/122712.html > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions. > http://3rdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifUM7zqrBQ2Ni4jMafgbDSSJ5wMFSzLENBmuRB5kPaLK6CVk/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Sep 28 15:06:54 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:06:54 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] An excellent article on cellulosic ethanol Message-ID: Five pages, interesting read, seems technically accurate on first skim. http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/15-10/ff_plant I leave the commentary or reactions to others on the list. Sincerely, John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Sep 28 15:55:54 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:55:54 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC Biofuels Ctr - job announcements Message-ID: Dear Friends, The Biofuels Center of North Carolina has announced four initial job openings. I've enclosed the announcement letter and the position descriptions, formatted as text. This and additional information is available on the website: http://www.ncbiotech.org Document Announcement: Four Initial Positions PDF Organizational Chart and Task Areas PDF Initial Framework: Strategy Implementation and Involved Partners Interested individuals might benefit from reading the very good "Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership." http://www.ncbiotech.org/biotechnology_in_nc/strategic_plan/biofuel_plan.htm l Please pass along this notice to interested individuals. Thanks, John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. ******************************************* 21 September 2007 To Biofuels Partners and Strategic Plan Participants >From W. Steven Burke ? Chair Announcement: Four Initial Positions The attached PDF document, Organizational Chart and Task Areas, lays out the initially expected staff structure and emphases of the newly constituted Biofuels Center of North Carolina. A private non-profit corporation with initial funding of $5M from the 2007 General Assembly, the Center and its staff will be located on the also new North Carolina Biofuels Campus in Oxford. Short job descriptions follow for the first four Center positions: ? President ? Director, Science and Research ? Director, Business Development ? Director, Public Awareness, Workforce Training, and Communications Other positions ? including the Director of Farming & Forestry and the Director of Production ? will be announced within weeks. The Biofuels Center is moving purposefully to reality and to filling key first positions as quickly as possible. No chronology for interviews or deadlines has been set. Positions will be open until filled. The PDF document Initial Framework: Strategy Implementation and Involved Partners provides the larger framework for a long-term statewide biofuels initiative that builds from North Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership and that assists involved participants. I convey this information for your interest and ideas. Please also pass it along to any other parties. Confidential replies and requests for more information can be addressed to me by email or mailing: W. Steven Burke Chair, Board of Directors, Biofuels Center of North Carolina Direct 919-549-8819 ? steven_burke at ncbiotech.org Senior Vice President, Corporate Affairs North Carolina Biotechnology Center PO Box 13547 ? 15 T. W. Alexander Drive Research Triangle Park, NC 27709 USA Direct 919-549-8819 ? Fax 919-990-9544 www.ncbiotech.org POSITION: President Job Purpose Leads and represents the Biofuels Center of North Carolina, implements North Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership, and serves as main Biofuels Center conduit to state, national, and international partners, constituencies, and programs. Provides vision and leadership while directing Center activities. Provides short- and long-term direction through astute evaluation of needs and factors, learning from partners and constituencies, and strategic planning. Represents the Center and the biofuels initiative to the North Carolina General Assembly, universities, federal and state agencies, private industry partners, corporate sponsors, and others who can support and provide input into the biofuels field. Serves at the pleasure of the Board of Directors and reports to the Chair of the Board. Key Responsibilities and Activity Areas * Provides vision and leadership for ongoing and future Center programs. * Directs the short and long-term goals of the Center through planning, initiating, and overseeing programs and activities. * Sound financial and administrative oversight. * Presents the Center?s programs and resource requirements to the North Carolina General Assembly and to state leadership in varied settings; serves on state and national committees; serves as spokesperson. * Promotes understanding and use of biofuels by North Carolina government, educational, industry, and public constituencies. * Fosters and sustains mutually strategic and mutually advantageous public-private partnerships with university, industry, and governmental agencies. * Develops and undertakes special assignments and reports requested by the Board of Directors; communicates regularly and comprehensively to the Board at scheduled meetings and at other times. * Builds trust, mutually advantageous strategic solutions, and consensus. The position, as for all Biofuels Center staff, demands: ? Experience and skills merged with imagination, bold thinking, and innovative confidence. ? Proven abilities to craft new endeavors with manifest outcomes. ? Proven disposition and abilities for internal and external partnership. Experience and Education At least ten years of senior development, administration, and project work in technology, public policy, governmental, business, or academic settings. Experience merging two or more of these vantage points is expected, as is a graduate degree in an appropriately related field. Other configurations of experience and education, if strong and distinctive, might also be considered. Salary To be determined, based on experience and skills. POSITION: Director, Science and Research Job Purpose Represents the Biofuels Center of North Carolina, implements North Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership, and serves as key conduit to science and research constituencies, partners, and activities. Performs senior level work and leadership to promote research, development, and application of technology necessary for the identification, adaptation, and eventual growing of feedstocks and biomass. Reports to the President. Key Responsibilities and Activity Areas ? Identify, analyze, and report on existing and developing areas of science and research underlying all aspects of biofuels development. ? Identify and lay out strategies and priorities for science and research funding, activities, and partnerships. ? Develop and coordinate science and research goals, initiatives, and programs. ? Shape, administer, and publicize funding programs, including the Strategic Carolina Crops Research Program. Ensure disciplined administration through internal infrastructure for submission, evaluation, and recommendation of funding requests. ? Convene events and discussion around the science, technology transfer, and economics of biofuels. ? Assist in strengthening research capabilities and resources statewide; assist parties in development and evaluation of funding applications to the Center or other sources. ? Address science and research at all points in the movement from development of key energy crops and biomass, to trial growing, production, and distribution. ? Represent the Center on scientific and technical matters. ? Form partnerships with public and private research organizations. ? Administer science and research resources, program evaluation, and budget. ? Evaluate effectiveness of outcomes. The position, as for all Biofuels Center staff, demands: ? Experience and skills merged with imagination, bold thinking, and innovative confidence. ? Proven abilities to craft new endeavors with manifest outcomes. ? Proven disposition and abilities for internal and external partnership. Experience and Education At least five years of senior development, administration, and project work in appropriate research, technology, governmental, business, or academic settings. Experience merging two or more of these vantage points is expected, as is a PhD in an appropriately related field. Other configurations of experience and education might also be considered. Salary $68,000 ? $85,000, based on experience and education. POSITION: Director, Business Development Job Purpose Represents the Biofuels Center of North Carolina, implements North Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership, and serves as key conduit to business and industry constituencies, partners, and activities. Performs senior level work and leadership to plan, develop, and oversee programs and activities to aid the development and operations of companies involved with biofuels and related biomass and feedstock applications. Works actively to catalyze and support new and entrepreneurial biofuels and related companies, and assists the growth and expansion of existing North Carolina companies. Reports to the President. Key Responsibilities and Activity Areas ? Identify, analyze, and report on existing and new areas for company and commercial development. ? Develop and coordinate business-directed strategies, goals, initiatives, partnerships, and programs. ? Target development, expansion, recruitment, and support of biofuels and biofuels-related companies and commercial enterprises across North Carolina. ? Assist North Carolina biofuels companies with: financing, networking, marketing strategies, site location, business planning, investment capital, strategic partnerships, and technology assessment. ? Plan and implement new innovative approaches to biofuels business development and assistance. ? Target technology transfer, joint ventures, and other means to accelerate commercial outcomes from science, companies, and production facilities. ? Assist biofuels companies in development and evaluation of funding applications to the Center or other sources. ? Provide business and referral services to North Carolina biofuels or related alternative energy companies. ? Implement Biofuels Center funding and support programs to build biofuels capacity and commercial enterprises. ? Evaluate effectiveness of outcomes. The position, as for all Biofuels Center staff, demands: ? Experience and skills merged with imagination, bold thinking, and innovative confidence. ? Proven abilities to craft new endeavors with manifest outcomes. ? Proven disposition and abilities for internal and external partnership. Education and Experience A MBA degree or Masters degree in science with coursework in a science or biofuels related field; three years of experience in a commercial or financial enterprise with an energy or alternative fuels focus; two years experience with technology-based business development, technology transfer and/or commercialization of research; or an equivalent combination of education and experience Salary $68,000 ? $85,000, based on experience and education. POSITION: Director, Communications, Public Awareness, and Workforce Training Job Purpose Represents the Biofuels Center of North Carolina, implements North Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership, and serves as key conduit to communications, public, and educational constituencies, partners, and activities. Reports to the President. Performs senior level work and leadership in three areas, strategically interrelated but necessarily different in required approach and activities. ? Communicate to targeted audiences through appropriate means: about the Biofuels Center and its programs; about the science, products, and value of biofuels; about the State?s commitment and potential for supporting and sustaining a nationally strong biofuels industry and initiative. ? Develop with partners strategies and activities to steadily over time position the importance of biofuels with public and consumer audiences. ? Assist partners and the North Carolina Community College System in development and support of programs, curricula, and resources for workforce training. Key responsibilities and Activity Areas ? Identify, analyze, and report on needs and opportunities to position biofuels within North Carolina?s media, public, and institutions. ? Develop and coordinate targeted and innovative goals, initiatives, and programs for communication and education, with outcomes likely to include: print and electronic materials, media, displays, public awareness programs, meetings, and briefings. ? Identify and lay out strategies, priorities, and activities. ? Identify and assist leveraging partners across North Carolina. ? Work with media, educational, public policy, governmental, and private parties for sustained programs and activities over time. ? Develop well written and well conceived materials in various formats. ? Implement Biofuels Center funding, support activities, and targeted programs. ? Evaluate effectiveness of outcomes. The position, as for all Biofuels Center staff, demands: ? Experience and skills merged with imagination, bold thinking, and innovative confidence. ? Proven abilities to craft new endeavors with manifest outcomes. ? Proven disposition and abilities for internal and external partnership. Education and Experience Ten years experience and increasing responsibility in some combination of communication, public affairs, education, or awareness projects. Strong proven competencies in communication, writing, and public engagement are expected, as is a graduate degree in a related field. Salary $68,000 ? $85,000, based on experience and education. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Sep 28 16:31:20 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:31:20 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] New biofuels R&D website launched by Sun Grant Initiative Message-ID: New biofuels R&D website launched by Sun Grant Initiative The federal Sun Grant Initiative has created a website to provide open access to peer-reviewed papers and information related to bioenergy and bioproducts. "BioWeb" is growing collection of basic and applied scientific knowledge with additional information about production economics and policy. Contact: James Doolittle, Director, North Central Sun Grant Center, (605) 688-6816, James.Doolittle at SDSTATE.EDU, www3.sdstate.edu. BioWeb: http://bioweb.sungrant.org ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Fri Sep 28 18:46:24 2007 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:46:24 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] sorta OT: I'm looking for an enclosed cargo trailer Message-ID: <46FD8440.5080002@localb100.com> I'm traveling around the country for a few months with a biodiesel processor on a flatbed trailer and I"d like to move up in the world- to an enclosed, cargo trailer model. I'm looking for a 6 x 12 sort of size, not any narrower than 6' wide, could go a bit longer if needed. If anyone knows of an inexpensive used one for sale, please let me know offlist. thanks, Mark www.girlmark.com/tour From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Sat Sep 29 18:58:37 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:58:37 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] An excellent article on cellulosic ethan ol Message-ID: <20070929.185837.6791.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> This technology is what Novozymes, in Franklinton, is all about. It is why Dubya visited them earlier this year. They are hoping to be the first with a breakthrough--- and a patent! Rich Cregar From tim_turner at ncsu.edu Sun Sep 30 13:23:20 2007 From: tim_turner at ncsu.edu (Tim Turner) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:23:20 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] bio-butanol better than ethanol as gasoline-displacer? In-Reply-To: <46FBCBAE.9030506@ncsu.edu> References: <84a57a420709261452q79555327l6143253888b68d41@mail.gmail.com> <46FBC1A3.8070201@gmail.com> <46FBCBAE.9030506@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <46FFDB88.7050005@ncsu.edu> Here's the article on biobutanol that I mentioned earlier. I got this link a while back from Will Mackin. Tim http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/12/30/biobutanol-the-other-white-meat/1 From darrell at nearto.us Sun Sep 30 15:30:24 2007 From: darrell at nearto.us (Darrell Edgley) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:30:24 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Solar and Green Building Tours (Durham and Hillsborough NC tour on October 13th) Message-ID: <07cb01c80398$59748560$660fa8c0@DELL> Hello all, I would like to let you know that in October there will be multiple Solar and Green building tours across the nation organized by ASES. http://www.ases.org/tour/2007_tour/2007listings.htm My reason for emailing this list specifically is that I am the coordinator for the tour in Durham County and Hillsborough NC and one of the venues on the tour is connected with Biofuels. The Durham / Hillsborough tour will feature 14 venues. If you live or work in the Durham/Hillsborough NC area please consider coming on the tour, which will be on Saturday October 13th. Further details and links to enrol on to the tour are available via: http://www.durhamsolartour.com For members of NCSEA or Clean Energy Durham the cost is $5, for non-members $10, but only $15 for a carload.... bring your family/friends. I know from reading some of the emails about car sales that this list is geographically diverse, other local tours in the RTP area are in Chapel Hill, Raleigh and Greensboro on October 6th. The full 2007 NC Green Building and Solar Tour will be hosted in Asheville, Boone, Catawba Valley, Chapel Hill, Charlotte, Durham, Greensboro, Greenville, Hendersonville, High Point, Manteo, Raleigh, Southern Pines, Wilmington and Winston-Salem - which makes it the largest tour to date! If you do not live in NC, or you happen to be out of state in early October please see if there is a tour near you.... http://www.ases.org/tour/2007_tour/2007listings.htm Darrell From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com Sun Sep 30 21:51:52 2007 From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:51:52 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] a NYT article on corn-based ethanol woes Message-ID: <1191203512.24650.1213409715@webmail.messagingengine.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/business/30ethanol.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin&oref=slogin -- Steve J. Rankin sjhr2000 at mailcan.com