From dentonconrad at netzero.net Mon Oct 1 08:47:05 2007 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 08:47:05 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] =?windows-1252?q?Ethanol=92s_Boom_Stall?= =?windows-1252?q?ing_as_Glut_Depresses_Price?= Message-ID: <4700EC49.9000608@netzero.net> Ethanol?s Boom Stalling as Glut Depresses Price http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/business/30ethanol.html?_r=3&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Mon Oct 1 10:43:29 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 10:43:29 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] =?iso-8859-1?q?Ethanol_=B9_s_Boom_Stall?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ing_as_Glut_Depresses_Price?= Message-ID: Thanks to BIG lister, Denton Conrad, for passing this along... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/business/30ethanol.html?_r=3&ref=todayspap er&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin Snips: NEVADA, Iowa, Sept. 24 ? The ethanol boom of recent years ? which spurred a frenzy of distillery construction, record corn prices, rising food prices and hopes of a new future for rural America ? may be fading. . . . ?The end of the ethanol boom is possibly in sight and may already be here,? said Neil E. Harl, an economics professor emeritus at Iowa State University who lectures on ethanol and is a consultant for producers. ?This is a dangerous time for people who are making investments.? . . . Since construction crews broke ground on the Lincolnway plant in 2005, the price of ethanol on the local market has fallen to $1.55 a gallon from about $2, Mr. Brehm said. Over the same period, the price of corn, representing 70 percent of production costs, has risen to $3.27 a bushel from $1.60. ?We?re trapped between two commodities,? he said. ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Mon Oct 1 14:14:14 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:14:14 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Grant awardees for on-farm renewable energy Message-ID: Dear Friends, Please join me in congratulating Piedmont Biofuels for winning a cost-share grant for methanol recovery in biodiesel production! This grant was one of 16 awarded to North Carolina farmers and rural businesses, to implement smart renewable energy and energy efficiency technologies. The full list of 21 grants in my five-state work-area is enclosed below -- including 3 in Georgia, and 1 each in South Carolina and Tennessee. This grant program, sometimes called the Section 9006 Program, is funded through the Farm Bill Energy Title. The funds are awarded on a 25% cost-share basis, to reduce the capital costs of clean energy improvements. The program is administered by the USDA and all proposals are reviewed for technical merit by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. This ensures that grant funds are invested in technologies with real benefits - both in terms of energy and the rural economy. Piedmont Biofuels will use methanol recovery to further improve the cost-efficiencies of their community-scale biodiesel plant. The new equipment will save money, cut air pollution, and save energy, too. Piedmont will be able to dedicate more of their resources to making renewable fuel made from local fats and oils, thus boosting the local economy. No doubt, they'll do it with their usual ingenuity, resourcefulness, and drive for sustainability. This is an excellent example of how the 9006 program helps create economic opportunity and reduce energy costs for farmers, ranchers and small businesses in rural communities. However, the future of this excellent program is in question: It was included in the 2007 Farm Bill passed by the House of Representatives in July, although funding was not mandated. Its fate in the Senate is less certain. Please join me in urging Senate leadership to rise to the challenge of a clean energy future. Use the following link to send a quick fax, asking for full funding of the Energy Title. http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/RuralEnergy4America To learn more about our campaign with the Environmental Law and Policy Center, click here: http://farmenergy.org/RuralEnergy4America.php Feel free to forward to friends. Sincerely, John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. * * * * * * * * * * 2007 Awards for Section 9006 Grants in SACE States: Georgia Brian Heatherington $5,374 Georgia John Simmons $5,595 Georgia Mountain Creek Enterprises $49,875 $49,875 North Carolina Chapel Hill Creamery $3,603 North Carolina Bradley J. Overby $3,069 North Carolina Gerald Bell $11,251 North Carolina Piedmont Biofuels Industrial, LLC $12,500 North Carolina Kinston Grain, LLC $41,967 North Carolina Double K Farms, Inc. $4,024 North Carolina S & B Farms, Inc. $22,740 North Carolina William B Linville $26,660 North Carolina Agrarian, Inc. $10,536 North Carolina Don C Sparks $49,890 North Carolina Edmund Farms Inc $2,550 North Carolina Black River Farms, LLC $11,629 North Carolina Grady Farms, Inc. $7,425 North Carolina Tommy S. Kimbro $29,066 North Carolina Triple S Farms and Cleaning, Inc. $47,000 $47,000 North Carolina Mack V. Dixon, Jr. $11,450 $11,450 North Carolina Robert & Patrick Edwards $24,200 $24,200 North Carolina Robert & Patrick Edwards $40,300 $40,300 South Carolina Kim's Pinewood Farm $12,400 Tennessee Warner Acres $50,000 NOTE: Details on awarded projects should be announced in the near future. Download the whole list (345 projects in 37 states) here as a PDF: http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rd/newsroom/2007/9006-recipients-sept-07.pdf From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Oct 1 18:05:11 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:05:11 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Certified Technical Services Begins Assembling Kreido Biofuels' New Modular Biodiesel Plant Message-ID: Camarillo, CA--Kreido Biofuels, Inc. (OTCBB:KRBF), a renewable energy company, announced on Sept. 27 that Certified Technical Services, a leading general contractor and fabrication specialist, has completed the framework construction and has begun assembling the major components of Kreido Biofuels? modular plant. By building the plant modularly in Texas and then shipping to the operating site, Kreido Biofuels will be able to start biodiesel production faster than if it were to build on site. On schedule to be shipped to Wilmington, NC at the end of 2007, the modular plant will be Kreido Biofuels? first full-scale commercial biodiesel plant. This inaugural plant is targeted to begin biodiesel production in the first quarter of 2008 and is expected to have an annual capacity of 33 million gallons per year. Ben Binninger, Chief Executive Officer, Kreido Biofuels, said, "Our modular plant design is one of the major differentiating elements of our business strategy. "As Certified builds, we simultaneously construct our spinning tube in tube, or STT, Systems at our new and expanded California facility. "We believe this approach will allow us to most efficiently accelerate the development and deployment of our biodiesel plants worldwide. "Simultaneously building STT Systems and modules while moving forward on site development advances the company?s goal of having biodiesel production capacity of 100 million gallons per year by the end of 2008.? For more information, call Ina McGuinness at 310-954-1100, or Denica Gordon at 323-253-9337. From john.bonitz at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 18:06:14 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:06:14 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] more news from ConocoPhillips Message-ID: <84a57a420710011506y34aeaffajba862c0751ccc79e@mail.gmail.com> I just read that Conoco Phillips and Archer Daniels Midland have joined forces to produce fuel from Biomass. See clip, below. Has anyone heard what NBB is going to do about ConocoPhillips plans for "co-processing" to produce "renewable diesel"? SNIP: ConocoPhillips and Archer Daniels Midland have agreed to collaborate on the development of renewable transportation fuels from biomass. The two companies said the alliance will research and seek to commercialize two components of a next-generation biofuel production process: the conversion of biomass from crops, wood or switchgrass into biocrude and the refining of biocrude to produce transportation fuel. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Oct 1 18:08:11 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:08:11 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Biodiesel Bulletin - Oct. 1, 2007 References: <8778315.1191275195093.JavaMail.atg@xeon1> Message-ID: <1494520F-7F67-4976-AF3D-D20AB38BABDA@blast.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: National Biodiesel Board > Date: October 1, 2007 5:46:35 PM EDT > To: rachel at biofuels.coop > Subject: Biodiesel Bulletin - Oct. 1, 2007 > > In This IssueOctober 2007 > > California Biodiesel Industry Launches Trade Group > A Newwww Car! Chrysler Provides Incentives to NBB Members > Chicago Area School Children to Breathe Easier Thanks to Biodiesel > > California Refuse Company Switches to B20 > NBB Hopes for Low Response to Recent Rollout - a Helpline > Alabama Pump Sports New Toppers > East & West Coast Workshops Round Out Petro Education Series > > California Biodiesel Industry Launches Trade Group > > Biodiesel pioneers and industry leaders have created a new not-for- > profit trade association to promote increased use and production of > high quality, renewable biodiesel fuel in California. The group, > known as the California Biodiesel Alliance (CBA), is a diverse > association of biodiesel feedstock suppliers, producers, fuel > marketers and distributors, technology providers, fuel retailers, > consumers, and advocates. > > ?We?re inviting industry and members of the public to join us in > unleashing the power of the biodiesel market here in California,? > said Alliance Chair Eric M. Bowen of Tellurian Biodiesel. > > CBA is committed to developing and protecting the biodiesel supply, > educating the public about the benefits of biodiesel, and > representing the California biodiesel industry in government > relations in Sacramento and beyond. > > ?Our goal is to ensure that biodiesel receives favorable treatment > by state and federal regulatory agencies as part of the solution to > California air quality challenges and as a benefit to California > workers, farmers, and the economy,? said Alliance Secretary Doug > Smith of Baker Commodities. ?We support California Air Resources > Board research studies and the inclusion of biodiesel into the > California transportation fuels portfolio.? > > CBA offers memberships to biodiesel producers, marketers, and > distributors as well as to companies and individuals who support > the industry at the highest level of fuel quality. Membership forms > are available at www.claiforniabiodieselalliance.org. > back to top > > > A Newwww Car! Chrysler Provides Incentives to NBB Members > > Chrysler LLC is teaming with the National Biodiesel Board (NBB) to > offer a discount program to NBB members in the U.S. who purchase or > lease a new Chrysler, Jeep or Dodge product. The program has > special emphasis on the company?s new diesel passenger vehicles ? > Dodge Ram heavy duty pickup and Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV. > > ?Modern clean diesel offers significant improvements in fuel > economy, which also means a reduction in carbon dioxide greenhouse > gas emissions,? said Deborah Morrissett, Vice President ? > Regulatory Affairs for Chrysler. ?When our diesel products are run > on clean, renewable biodiesel, the environmental benefits are even > greater ? at the same time we are reducing our dependence on > petroleum and supporting America?s farm economy.? > > Chrysler and NBB have partnered on several initiatives to promote > the use of diesel technology and biodiesel, such as a new national > fuel standard specifically for B20. > > ?We are very pleased to see the level of commitment that Chrysler > has put into supporting the use of biodiesel,? said Joe Jobe, NBB > CEO. ?Chrysler?s incentive program is an attractive benefit for our > NBB members, and a great opportunity to buy a new vehicle from a > company that is working hard to provide consumers with more ?green > vehicle? options running on renewable fuel.? > > Information on the discount purchase/lease program is available to > NBB members on the organization?s Members Only web site at > www.biodiesel.org. To find out information on becoming a member, > visit www.biodiesel.org/members. > back to top > > > Chicago Area School Children Breathe Easier Thanks to Biodiesel > > The nation?s largest independently owned and operated school bus > company has expanded its use of biodiesel. The Chicago-area Cook- > Illinois Corporation originally began using a biodiesel blend in > about 1,400 buses. Now the company has announced that it will > refuel an additional 400 buses with B11. Company officials estimate > that they have reduced toxic emissions in Chicago?s air by nearly > 1,000 tons over a one year period. > > ?As a national leader in alternative fuels, we want to make a > difference in the air quality for school children,? said John > Benish, CEO of Cook Illinois Corporation. ?Biodiesel is > environmentally safe and will benefit students and the community by > reducing pollution.? > > Studies reveal that children riding school buses with regular > diesel fuel are exposed to higher level of emission toxins than > other children. Exhaust emissions inhaled on a consistent basis, > particularly exhaust from diesel engines, have been linked to > asthma and other respiratory conditions. > > To educate kids on the benefits of biodiesel fuel, the company > unveiled a new Clean Air Club for kids with an interactive website. > back to top > > > California Refuse Company Switches to B20 > > Another garbage and recycling company is reducing its own waste by > switching to biodiesel. Allied Waste Services of San Mateo County, > Calif., which provides recycling and disposal services to 100,000 > residential and commercial customers, announced it has begun using > B20 in some of its fleet vehicles. All of Allied?s 225-truck fleet > is expected to be running on biodiesel by the end of January 2008. > With its full fleet conversion, Allied will replace some 80,000 > gallons of ultra-low sulfur petroleum diesel each month with > cleaner-burning alternative fuel produced from local renewable > resources. > > ?Biodiesel is the best greenhouse gas mitigation strategy for heavy > duty vehicles available, and this conversion will have a > demonstrative, positive environmental impact in the Bay Area > communities we serve,? said Allied Waste Industries Chairman and > CEO John Zillmer. ?In addition, there are proven maintenance cost > savings to biodiesel, making this both a good business decision as > well as the environmentally right thing to do.? > > As the program grows, residents will continue to see more ?Powered > by Biodiesel? trucks making the rounds throughout the area. > back to top > > > NBB Hopes for Low Response to Recent Rollout - a Helpline > > A new biodiesel hotline has been set up by the National Biodiesel > Board (NBB) ? but we hope you never have to call it. Though the > recent past has shown that this line may rarely be used, the NBB > set up a Troubleshooting Helpline. The call staff will take > biodiesel users? calls on problems they think may attributed to > using biodiesel or biodiesel blends that aren?t resolved through > the normal channels. The Troubleshooting Helpline number is > 800-929-3437. > > This year-round resource models a hotline that has been set up in > the U.S. to take calls on diesel quality issues. End users and > fleets should always contact their biodiesel distributor first if > they think there is an issue related to the use of biodiesel > blends. Distributors should contact their biodiesel supplier. If > additional assistance or expertise is needed, the Troubleshooting > Helpline expert staff is there to help users and distributors get > to the bottom of any issues surrounding the use of biodiesel blends > in the field. It is funded by the United Soybean Board and the > soybean checkoff. > > The NBB?s intention in launching this hotline is to be proactive, > and to ensure everyone has a good experience when using biodiesel > blends. Again, this line is for potential problems thought to be > caused by biodiesel blend use only ? general inquiries still go to > 800-841-5849. Also, this is not to be confused with the Biodiesel > Hotline to find biodiesel at the pump ? 866-BIODIESEL. > back to top > > > Alabama Pump Sports New Toppers > > The first public B20 pump in Birmingham, Ala. recently celebrated > its grand opening in grand style. The pump is wearing with pride a > new pump topper kit. Developed by the National Biodiesel Board, the > kit gives biodiesel marketers an opportunity for a new look to draw > the attention of their customers. The Birmingham station proprietor > is reportedly as pleased with the new look as he is with the new > sales of B20! > > Click here to purchase pump topper kits from the Biodiesel Store, > only at AllThingsBiodiesel.com. > back to top > > > East & West Coast Workshops Round Out Petro Education Series > > The next stop for petroleum distributors wanting to learn more > about handling biodiesel is in Seattle, as a series paid for > through grants awarded to select Clean Cities Coalitions draws to a > close. These Department of Energy program coalitions educated > petroleum marketers, fleet managers and other officials about > biodiesel fuel quality and ideal management practices. The Seattle, > Wash., workshop will be held Oct. 23. Another workshop will be held > in Goldsboro, NC, Oct. 24. > > The Maryland Energy Administration, the Clean Cities program and > the National Biodiesel Foundation teamed up to award grants to > Ohio; New Mexico; Columbia/Willamette, Ore.; South Carolina; Puget > Sound; Philadelphia; Colorado; Virginia and the Triangle area, > North Carolina, Clean Cities. The goal of these seminars, and of > Clean Cities, is to increase the use of alternative fuels in > metropolitan areas. > For more details, please check www.biodiesel.org/events. The > National Biodiesel Foundation was created to conduct outreach, > education, research and demonstrations for the advancement of > biodiesel and its co-products. > back to top > > > Upcoming Events > > > > Hart's World Refining Fuels & Conference > Oct. 15-17 > L'Enfent Plaza Hotel > Washington, D.C. > www.hartenergy.com > > > South Shore Clean Cities/IN Soybean Alliance Fuel Quality Workshop > Oct. 18 > Radisson Hotel at Star Plaza > Merrillville, Ind. > www.southshorecleancities.org > > > International Congress on Biodiesel, The Science and the Technologies > AOCS > Nov. 5-7 > Vienna, Austria > www.aocs.org/meetings/biodiesel > > > Please visit "biodiesel events" on biodiesel.org for more. > back to top > > Contact Us > > For more information on biodiesel visit our website at > www.biodiesel.org or contact us at 888-BIODIESEL. > > Amber Pearson, Communications Specialist > apearson at biodiesel.orgBev Thessen, Information Coordinator > bthessen at biodiesel.org > > > This bulletin is also available in PDF format online at > http://www.biodiesel.org/news/bulletin/ > back to top > > > > 2004 National Biodiesel Board - www.biodiesel.org > > Unsubscribe > > From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Mon Oct 1 18:31:16 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:31:16 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Leave it to the LA Times to cover an east coast phenomenon... Message-ID: Leave it to the LA Times to cover an east coast biodiesel phenomenon... SNIP: Del Bueno argues that one of the magic properties of the fuel is that it encourages people to research the sources of their energy. "It forces people to look at all of these other issues they hadn't looked at before. . . . The next thing you know, they're putting solar panels on their roof, or whatever," he says. "It kind of transforms their perspective." http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-delbueno1oct01,1,559850 9.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true Props to Piedmont Biofuels and Atlanta's ReFuel Project. ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Tue Oct 2 08:12:46 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:12:46 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] more news from ConocoPhillips Message-ID: <20071002.081246.17745.0@webmail18.dca.untd.com> As I recall, NBB is trying to get Congress to close the loophole that allows feedstocks, including animal wastes such as chicken fat from Tyson Foods, to receive the $1.00/gal FET credit. I think we all need to remember that NBB, while a great organization, is beholding to the farm organizations and may not always advocate the best interests of the American Public, if they conflict with financial interests of the Soy growers. Rich Cregar From info at theforestfoundation.org Tue Oct 2 08:55:00 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 08:55:00 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] [Fwd: BBC E-mail: Biofuel trial flight set for 747] Message-ID: <47023FA4.1000106@theforestfoundation.org> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: BBC E-mail: Biofuel trial flight set for 747 Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:18:14 +0100 From: marc To: marc at theforestfoundation.org marc saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you should see it. ** Biofuel trial flight set for 747 ** Air New Zealand aims to mount the first test flight of a commercial airliner partially powered by biofuels. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/7017694.stm > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > ** Disclaimer ** The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. Please note that neither the e-mail address nor name of the sender have been verified. If you do not wish to receive such e-mails in the future or want to know more about the BBC's Email a Friend service, please read our frequently asked questions. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/4162471.stm From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Tue Oct 2 15:13:32 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:13:32 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Energy Title in Senate Farm Bill May Face Cuts Message-ID: The following urgent news from 25x25 coalition: Energy Title in Senate Farm Bill May Face Cuts Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA), Chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, announced last week that work on the current Farm Bill will likely be extended for another month to allow more time for the Senate to craft its version of the bill. This may result in final Congressional action on the Farm Bill being delayed until late in the year. In the meantime, the fundamental problem of insufficient funding to support the measure stands unresolved. While support is evident for the 25x25 vision for the future, some of the key programs which will help realize the vision are in jeopardy. Sen. Harkin announced Tuesday that he may have to drastically cut the energy title of the Farm Bill. The original proposal provided $4 billion over five years and addressed the full spectrum of cellulosic bioenergy needs, from crop experiments to crop transition; provided additional funding for biomass feedstock procurement, harvesting and processing equipment, and development of rural biorefineries, as well as funded research needed to deliver bioenergy technologies. It also created a key new program to help farmers and ranchers adopt renewable energy and energy efficiency to manage their energy needs. But in yesterday's announcement, Sen. Harkin said the title will now have to be cut by 50- to 75-percent, falling below the $2 billion level over 5 years. This places the Senate energy title funding well below the House-passed level of $2.4 billion over 5 years. The cuts would mean very limited support for the transition to cellulosic bioenergy, putting more pressure on corn production and hindering progress towards the 25x'25 goal. It would also slash the popular section 9006 program of renewable energy and energy efficiency grants and loan guarantees to little more than today's levels, which only cover about 20 percent of demand, and reduce bioenergy research to only about 25 percent of the levels needed to enable the transition to domestic biofuels supplying 30 percent of transportation fuel demand by 2030. Sen. Harkin said that there was no definitive timeframe as of yet for the Committee to take up the Farm Bill. Originally, markup was scheduled for late September, but many now think that it will not occur before the Columbus Day break. Considering that this is a tight budget year, most additional funding above the 2002 funding levels will have to come from offsets, which are within the jurisdiction of the Finance Committee. Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-MT) is committed to channeling some new funding into the Farm Bill, however to date he has only communicated support for providing increases in two areas: funding for a permanent disaster aid program and conservation tax credits. In addition, the Finance Committee has not agreed to any changes in the direct payments program. As a result, the debate is focused primarily on the commodity title front, thus the announcement yesterday to cut the funding for the energy title. ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From markj.ambrose at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 23:05:59 2007 From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:05:59 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tuesday Diane Rehm Show In-Reply-To: <1494520F-7F67-4976-AF3D-D20AB38BABDA@blast.com> References: <8778315.1191275195093.JavaMail.atg@xeon1> <1494520F-7F67-4976-AF3D-D20AB38BABDA@blast.com> Message-ID: <47030717.30407@gmail.com> Today's 1st hour of the Diane Rehm Show on NPR dealt with food prices, and part of the discussion dealt with the effect of biofuels production on grain prices. One interesting tidbit is that soy prices are being pushed up, not so much by demand for soy oil for biodiesel, but because farmers are putting more land into corn because the ethanol boom has pushed up corn prices, leading to a shortage of soybeans. You can listen by following this link and selecting the 10:00 hour for Tues 10/2: http://wamu.org/programs/dr/ -- Mark From mweaver at misteam.net Sun Oct 7 22:06:23 2007 From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:06:23 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tuesday Diane Rehm Show In-Reply-To: <47030717.30407@gmail.com> References: <8778315.1191275195093.JavaMail.atg@xeon1> <1494520F-7F67-4976-AF3D-D20AB38BABDA@blast.com> <47030717.30407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4709909F.4040005@misteam.net> Living in Va. I've always wondered why biodiesel ins't made from peanut oil more often - I've always made great fuel from peanut oil - it's popular in oriental restaurants. Mark J. Ambrose wrote: >Today's 1st hour of the Diane Rehm Show on NPR dealt with food prices, >and part of the discussion dealt with the effect of biofuels production >on grain prices. > >One interesting tidbit is that soy prices are being pushed up, not so >much by demand for soy oil for biodiesel, but because farmers are >putting more land into corn because the ethanol boom has pushed up corn >prices, leading to a shortage of soybeans. > >You can listen by following this link and selecting the 10:00 hour for >Tues 10/2: > >http://wamu.org/programs/dr/ > >-- Mark >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Sun Oct 7 20:44:50 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:44:50 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tu esday Diane Rehm Show Message-ID: <20071007.204450.6327.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Peanut oil is expensive. The best Biodiesel would come from Olive oil (In terms of energy density). Way too expensive! Rich Cregar From francismiller at comcast.net Sun Oct 7 22:26:41 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:26:41 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tu esday Diane Rehm Show In-Reply-To: <20071007.204450.6327.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20071007.204450.6327.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <47099561.5030007@comcast.net> I have read a couple of books recently about the exhaustion of the soils and its role in the migration of humans from east to west. Soils which have been exhausted of humus and tend to be sandy grow olives and grapes. Any reason why certain areas of the world grow such products? Because they want or that's all the soil will allow? Fran Miller rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: >$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >Peanut oil is expensive. The best Biodiesel would come from Olive oil (In terms of energy density). Way too expensive! >Rich Cregar > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From wenck at unc.edu Mon Oct 8 09:01:51 2007 From: wenck at unc.edu (Wendy Wenck) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:01:51 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tuesday Diane Rehm Show In-Reply-To: <47099561.5030007@comcast.net> References: <20071007.204450.6327.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> <47099561.5030007@comcast.net> Message-ID: <470A2A3F.70006@unc.edu> Peanuts grow best in sandy soils (vs. clay) due to their need for good drainage. Often soil type influences what crops can best be grown in an area. The other major factor is climate. Olives can only be grown in warmer climates (Italy, Spain, Australia) because the trees can't survive much cold. Grapes can be grown in a variety of climates (warm as well as temperate) though they will be less prone to fungus diseases in less humid areas. Selecting the most appropriate varieties can make a big difference though-- for instance, scuppernongs and concord types really thrive and produce well in the southeastern U.S.whether in sandy, clay or loam soils. You can tell to some extent where grapes can be grown most productively by looking for wineries :-) Soil exhaustion has historically played a role in human "migration" though I would say most farmers, unless growing organically, don't really work on maintaining humus in the soils. When I was a student at NC State University in 1990, a soil science professor told me that the humus content of the soil doesn't really matter because you can just add fertilizer. Seems like many learned nothing from the dust bowl in that regard. However salt buildup in soils due to use of conventional fertilizers is more likely a factor in modern days. Seems like I read somewhere that the extremely productive farmlands in California will eventually have to be abandoned due to salt buildup, within our lifetimes, unless a solution is found. Wendy -- Wendy E. Wenck Herb Garden Curator North Carolina Botanical Garden University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Campus Box 3375, Totten Center Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3375 (919)962-0522 wenck at unc.edu www.ncbg.unc.edu From markj.ambrose at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 14:33:43 2007 From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:33:43 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tu esday Diane Rehm Show In-Reply-To: <20071007.204450.6327.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20071007.204450.6327.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <470A7807.2020509@gmail.com> Also, I suspect that you would have more cold flow issues with biodiesel from peanut than from soy or canola, at least if the cold flow properties of the feedstock are any indication of the the properties of the resulting biodiesel. -- Mark rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > Peanut oil is expensive. The best Biodiesel would come from Olive oil (In terms of energy density). Way too expensive! > Rich Cregar > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From tobin at tjcog.org Mon Oct 8 15:10:48 2007 From: tobin at tjcog.org (Tobin Freid) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:10:48 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] volunteers needed for biodiesel demo Message-ID: <00f801c809de$f468d5c0$1800a8c0@cleancities> The Triangle Clean Cities Coalition is having an alt fuels exhibit at the state fair and this year we will be having biodiesel-making demos! We need volunteers to help out. Please consider volunteering for a few hours... it's a lot of fun and a great way to spread the word about biodiesel and other alt fuels. We'll even give you a free pass to get into the fair! There will be someone from Wake Tech leading the demos so don't be shy if you don't know very much about it... this is a great way to learn! The biodiesel demos for which we need volunteers are Oct. 17 and 18 (either 12:30-4:00 or 4:00-7:30) and on the 20th and 21st (12:30-4:00). Of course, we'd love to have volunteers for other shifts if you can make it (Oct. 12-21, 9:00-12:30 or 12:30-4:00 or 4:00-7:30). Please contact me directly to volunteer tobin at tjcog.org. Tobin L. Freid Project Coordinator for Energy and Environment Triangle J Council of Governments (919) 558-9400 -- Triangle J Council of Governments is a Best Workplace for Commuters -- From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Oct 8 17:30:03 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 17:30:03 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel neighbors add claim to lawsuit Message-ID: <155ADF26-ECC3-41C2-A24D-58510DD4D988@blast.com> http://www.statesville.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=SRL%2FMGArticle% 2FSRL_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173352973400&path=!news By Bethany Fuller jfuller at statesville.com Wednesday, October 3, 2007 -------------- next part -------------- The Iredell County Planning Department failed to provide adequate notice for the public hearing on the biodiesel plant on Snow Creek Road, according to court documents filed by opponents of the proposed plant. The 24 plaintiffs have asked an Iredell Superior Court judge to overturn an Aug. 7 decision by Iredell County commissioners to rezone 7.88 acres from single-family residential to heavy manufacturing. The claim, which was added to the lawsuit by the plaintiffs? attorneys last week, was partially confirmed by county planning and development director Ron Smith. Smith said the county did not publish the required public hearing notice in the newspaper. ?For whatever reason it was not run in July,? Smith said. ?It was an oversight ... pure and simple.? County lawyer Bill Pope, who has not filed a response to the original complaints, didn?t return phone messages Tuesday. The McLains? lawyer, Bill McMillan, requested additional time for the defendants to respond to the lawsuit on Sept. 18. ?It?s pretty standard in a civil action,? said Bill McMillan, who practices law with Pope at Pope, McMillan, Kutteh, Privette, Edwards and Schieck. T.C. Morphis Jr., a Chapel Hill lawyer representing the plaintiffs, said the claim of improper notice was the only change in the 11-page amended complaint filed last Wednesday. Morphis said the original complaint was filed to meet court deadlines. Since then, his clients, who refer to themselves as Iredell Neighbors for Rural Life, have come forth with new information. Smith, who became planning director June 1, said the 7.88 acres on McLain Farms was originally slated to go before commissioners in April, but the planning department pulled it off the agenda. Because the planning department did not hold the public hearing, it was not advertised, he said. Commissioners postponed the hearing once again on July 24 at the request of the McLain family. Smith said the required advertisement did not run before the July 24 or the Aug. 7 meeting. The R&L legal advertisement department could not find any record of a public hearing notice for McLain Farm either. With the exception of the newspaper notice, Smith said, his department has followed every other regulated procedure. He said his department sent multiple letters to the neighbors and posted the rezoning sign in front of the property in question. ?The letters were definitely sent,? Smith said. ?We wanted to make sure they got sent out.? Judging by the number of people at the meeting, Smith said, everyone knew about the meeting. From markj.ambrose at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 15:52:46 2007 From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:52:46 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tuesday Diane Rehm Show In-Reply-To: <470A2A3F.70006@unc.edu> References: <20071007.204450.6327.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> <47099561.5030007@comcast.net> <470A2A3F.70006@unc.edu> Message-ID: <470BDC0E.5030602@gmail.com> This is getting a little off-topic for the biofuels list, but I am a stickler for scientific detail, so I am jumping in here. In your last paragraph, below, Wendy, you lumped several important issues together that are really distinct problems. To address them effectively, one needs to understand them individually. > Soil exhaustion has historically played a role in human "migration" Absolutely right! > though I would say most farmers, unless growing organically, don't > really work on maintaining humus in the soils. However, loss of humus in soils has historically not been the major factor in soils being exhausted for agricultural use. In most places, the biggest cause of soils becoming unfit for agriculture was EROSION of topsoil due to cultivation methods. That was clearly the case here in the Southern Piedmont where all our red clay used to have several inches to a foot (or more) of topsoil on top of it. The other "classic" situation where soil exhaustion occurs is where the soils are naturally so low in nutrients that any agriculture without fertilizing is problematic to start with. Fore example in so parts of the tropics the soils are very poor and what nutrients are in the system are tied up in the existing vegetation. The only way to farm is to cut down the trees and burn them. The ash provides fertilizer for a few years of crops, and then you have to move somewhere else. (Or you import fertilizer to replace what nutrients you used up.) > When I was a student at > NC State University in 1990, a soil science professor told me that the > humus content of the soil doesn't really matter because you can just add > fertilizer. That seems an odd, short-sighted statement by the professor. He seems to have missed the key point about the roles that humus plays in soils (which I also learned from soil science classes at NCSU in the 90's). Humus does provide nutrients in soils, but it is more important because it increases the nutrient holding capacity of the soils (cation exchange capacity or CEC). The other important role of humus is how it affects soil structure and improves water-holding capacity (in sandy soils) or drainage (in clay soils) -- very important whether or not you add fertilizer in your agricultural system. > Seems like many learned nothing from the dust bowl in that regard. Well, the dust bowl was really caused by loss of the native vegetation (the prairie grasses whose dense root-mats would hold the soil in place), not loss of humus. Even organic farming would have produced dust bowls under the weather conditions of the dust bowl years unless a VERY LARGE area had been left uncultivated with native grasses in place. > However salt buildup in soils due to use of conventional > fertilizers is more likely a factor in modern days. Seems like I read > somewhere that the extremely productive farmlands in California will > eventually have to be abandoned due to salt buildup, within our > lifetimes, unless a solution is found. Salt build-up is a major issue in may places. However, in many parts of CA and other western states the salt problem is only partly due to chemical fertilizers. Much of the salt build-up is due to salt accumulation from the river water used to irrigate. The problem is that many of those areas are really too dry for agriculture to be sustainable in the long term. -- Mark Wendy Wenck wrote: > Peanuts grow best in sandy soils (vs. clay) due to their need for good > drainage. Often soil type influences what crops can best be grown in an > area. The other major factor is climate. Olives can only be grown in > warmer climates (Italy, Spain, Australia) because the trees can't > survive much cold. > > Grapes can be grown in a variety of climates (warm as well as temperate) > though they will be less prone to fungus diseases in less humid areas. > Selecting the most appropriate varieties can make a big difference > though-- for instance, scuppernongs and concord types really thrive and > produce well in the southeastern U.S.whether in sandy, clay or loam > soils. You can tell to some extent where grapes can be grown most > productively by looking for wineries :-) > > Soil exhaustion has historically played a role in human "migration" > though I would say most farmers, unless growing organically, don't > really work on maintaining humus in the soils. When I was a student at > NC State University in 1990, a soil science professor told me that the > humus content of the soil doesn't really matter because you can just add > fertilizer. Seems like many learned nothing from the dust bowl in that > regard. However salt buildup in soils due to use of conventional > fertilizers is more likely a factor in modern days. Seems like I read > somewhere that the extremely productive farmlands in California will > eventually have to be abandoned due to salt buildup, within our > lifetimes, unless a solution is found. > > Wendy > > > From weareallnow at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 16:40:36 2007 From: weareallnow at gmail.com (Daniel Hunter) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:40:36 -0700 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tuesday Diane Rehm Show In-Reply-To: <470BDC0E.5030602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <470be745.1fba720a.7dca.033c@mx.google.com> PLEASE remove me from this list! Thanks, Daniel -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Mark J. Ambrose Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53 PM To: wenck at unc.edu Cc: Francis M. Miller; rudolfdiesel at netzero.net; Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net; mweaver at misteam.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting references to biofuels on Tuesday Diane Rehm Show This is getting a little off-topic for the biofuels list, but I am a stickler for scientific detail, so I am jumping in here. In your last paragraph, below, Wendy, you lumped several important issues together that are really distinct problems. To address them effectively, one needs to understand them individually. > Soil exhaustion has historically played a role in human "migration" Absolutely right! > though I would say most farmers, unless growing organically, don't > really work on maintaining humus in the soils. However, loss of humus in soils has historically not been the major factor in soils being exhausted for agricultural use. In most places, the biggest cause of soils becoming unfit for agriculture was EROSION of topsoil due to cultivation methods. That was clearly the case here in the Southern Piedmont where all our red clay used to have several inches to a foot (or more) of topsoil on top of it. The other "classic" situation where soil exhaustion occurs is where the soils are naturally so low in nutrients that any agriculture without fertilizing is problematic to start with. Fore example in so parts of the tropics the soils are very poor and what nutrients are in the system are tied up in the existing vegetation. The only way to farm is to cut down the trees and burn them. The ash provides fertilizer for a few years of crops, and then you have to move somewhere else. (Or you import fertilizer to replace what nutrients you used up.) > When I was a student at > NC State University in 1990, a soil science professor told me that the > humus content of the soil doesn't really matter because you can just add > fertilizer. That seems an odd, short-sighted statement by the professor. He seems to have missed the key point about the roles that humus plays in soils (which I also learned from soil science classes at NCSU in the 90's). Humus does provide nutrients in soils, but it is more important because it increases the nutrient holding capacity of the soils (cation exchange capacity or CEC). The other important role of humus is how it affects soil structure and improves water-holding capacity (in sandy soils) or drainage (in clay soils) -- very important whether or not you add fertilizer in your agricultural system. > Seems like many learned nothing from the dust bowl in that regard. Well, the dust bowl was really caused by loss of the native vegetation (the prairie grasses whose dense root-mats would hold the soil in place), not loss of humus. Even organic farming would have produced dust bowls under the weather conditions of the dust bowl years unless a VERY LARGE area had been left uncultivated with native grasses in place. > However salt buildup in soils due to use of conventional > fertilizers is more likely a factor in modern days. Seems like I read > somewhere that the extremely productive farmlands in California will > eventually have to be abandoned due to salt buildup, within our > lifetimes, unless a solution is found. Salt build-up is a major issue in may places. However, in many parts of CA and other western states the salt problem is only partly due to chemical fertilizers. Much of the salt build-up is due to salt accumulation from the river water used to irrigate. The problem is that many of those areas are really too dry for agriculture to be sustainable in the long term. -- Mark Wendy Wenck wrote: > Peanuts grow best in sandy soils (vs. clay) due to their need for good > drainage. Often soil type influences what crops can best be grown in an > area. The other major factor is climate. Olives can only be grown in > warmer climates (Italy, Spain, Australia) because the trees can't > survive much cold. > > Grapes can be grown in a variety of climates (warm as well as temperate) > though they will be less prone to fungus diseases in less humid areas. > Selecting the most appropriate varieties can make a big difference > though-- for instance, scuppernongs and concord types really thrive and > produce well in the southeastern U.S.whether in sandy, clay or loam > soils. You can tell to some extent where grapes can be grown most > productively by looking for wineries :-) > > Soil exhaustion has historically played a role in human "migration" > though I would say most farmers, unless growing organically, don't > really work on maintaining humus in the soils. When I was a student at > NC State University in 1990, a soil science professor told me that the > humus content of the soil doesn't really matter because you can just add > fertilizer. Seems like many learned nothing from the dust bowl in that > regard. However salt buildup in soils due to use of conventional > fertilizers is more likely a factor in modern days. Seems like I read > somewhere that the extremely productive farmlands in California will > eventually have to be abandoned due to salt buildup, within our > lifetimes, unless a solution is found. > > Wendy > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Tue Oct 9 17:29:38 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:29:38 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Why subsidize agriculture? Message-ID: Friends of biofuels, In response to my recent posts about Farm Bill, I got a couple good emails challenging agricultural subsidies and government support for clean-energy on farms. I ask in response, "But what about peak oil?" Here in the southeast, where farmers are increasingly pressured to grow rooftops instead of crops, sprawl will be our un-doing once cheap oil is gone. If we do not help farms remain in production, our food-productive capacity in proximity to population centers will be eroded. Biofuels and biopower will help the rural economy defer subdivided sprawl. Most of us agree that biofuels are merely a stepping-stone to a cleaner energy future, when transportation will be less energy- and ghg-intensive. Perhaps we should instead think of biofuels (and their subsidies) as the *bridge* to a post-peak-oil future? Right now, the Energy Title of the Farm Bill is in jeopardy of being de-funded. In the article I sent a week ago (from 25x25 Coalition), Sen Tom Harkin warned that funds for the Farm Bill's Energy Title may be slashed 50% to 75%. This would seriously set-back vital R&D and commercialization for biofuels, and would drastically cut the excellent 9006 grant program. Your action is needed to assure federal funding for biodiesel, cellulosic ethanol, and on-farm renewable energy. Please join me in urging Senate leadership to take action to ensure robust funding of the Energy Title. Click here to send a quick fax to Senate leadership: http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/RuralEnergy4America Click here to learn more about our campaign with ELPC: http://farmenergy.org/RuralEnergy4America.php Please forward to others. Sincerely, John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From tavanas at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 20:47:07 2007 From: tavanas at gmail.com (t avanas) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:47:07 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FS '87 Mercedes Benz 300TD wagon Message-ID: <01d101c80ad7$1914f770$120d530a@amer.cisco.com> folks, i am planning to sell my '87 Mercedes Benz 300TD wagon, i want to offer it here before posting to craigslist or ebay. here are some details: - 199k miles - silver exterior - blue MB Tex interior in very good condition - third seat - extensive service at A Better Wrench - runs and drives well - running on B100 - some paint fade - small amount of rust at jack points - new brakes and tires all around - asking $5600 obo thanks -saeed one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Oct 9 22:40:55 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:40:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] UK: Renault's multi-brand V6 diesel plan Message-ID: <6A1E1136-0932-4763-B85E-F4C386CB0335@biofuels.coop> > UK: Renault's multi-brand V6 diesel plan > > 9 October 2007| Source: just-auto.com editorial team > > The Renault-Nissan Alliance is to apply its new three-litre V6 dCi > diesel engine across a global, multi-brand variety of vehicles, > ranging from Renault?s new Laguna to the Nissan Murano and Infiniti > models. > > Publicly the group?s executives have only nominated the new Laguna > and its coupe counterpart, due in Europe next Autumn, for the twin > turbo, 265-horsepower diesel although they plan to amortise the > development and production costs across four brands. > > Pierre Loing, Nissan Europe?s vice president of product strategy > and planning, said: ?Murano will come with a diesel as part of our > plan to extend the concept of our crossovers.? > > But it is anticipated that Infiniti?s European range, due on sale > from October next year, will incorporate the high-performance > diesel in the G35 sedan, plus the new EX crossover and its larger > FX counterpart. > > In Europe the Murano, with a single 3.5-litre petrol V6 automatic- > only driveline, is a token player in the SUV sector selling 8,345 > units last year, down from 8,963 in 2005. With diesel power > available within two years, Nissan Europe believes privately > volumes could treble. > > On the Renault front, the Euro V emissions standard (200gms/km in > the Laguna Coupe) V6 dCi is also likely to be used in a larger SUV > crossover counterpart (mid 2009) to next summer?s Korean-built > Koleos and a large sedan planned as part of Renault?s upscale model > programme. > > RenaultSamsung Motors, which is developing and building these cars, > will produce parallel Samsungs equipped with the diesel. When it > announced the power unit at the Frankfurt show, Renault highlighted > that its particulate filter and NOx trap helped meet ?US emission > standards.? > > Much is resting on the new engine?s success as the Alliance seeks > to regain the initiative from the joint PSA-Ford V6 diesel, > currently powering Citroens, Peugeots, Land Rovers and Jaguars. > > General Motors, in conjunction with VM Motori, is developing an > equivalent 2.9-litre engine for Saab, Cadillac, Opel and Vauxhall. > > Hugh Hunston From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Oct 9 23:39:03 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:39:03 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] VW one litre car 'not a top seller' Message-ID: <7C59E95E-D035-4C3A-8166-F136502A4C78@biofuels.coop> GERMANY: VW one litre car 'not a top seller' 9 October 2007| Source: just-auto.com editorial team Volkswagen Group CEO, Martin Winterkorn, has reaffirmed that VW will bring a one-litre car (consuming just one litre of fuel for every 100km [60 miles] driven) to the market by 2010 at the latest. Speaking at an international steel congress in Berlin, he was reported by a local newspaper as saying that, ?the car will not be a top seller.? The body of the car will be made principally from plastic and magnesium, making it significantly more expensive than a basic car. The engine will have two cylinders and 300cc capacity. Top speed should be around 120km/h. A one-litre car has been a dream of Volkswagen?s chairman, Ferdinand Piech, since he was CEO of the group. The project was dropped by Bernd Pischetstrieder but has been revived again under Piech?s influence. Piech said earlier this year that the project would be helped by falling prices for lightweight body parts, in particular plastics. Piech said a plastics manufacturer had told him that parts that currently cost EUR35,000 to produce would cost just EUR5,000, meaning that they become economically viable. "That was not possible in my time," said Piech, formerly CEO of Volkswagen. "This is progress." Piech was driven to his last annual general meeting as CEO in 2002 in a small two-seat one litre car prototype. The car had a carbon body and consumed just 0.89l of fuel per 100km. From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Wed Oct 10 00:25:16 2007 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:25:16 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] wanted to buy: two steel barrels, not oily Message-ID: <470C542C.90008@localb100.com> I'm looking for two steel barrels, either closed head or (better) open head. The important thing to me is that they didn't contain oils at any point. I'd prefer food-grade or methanol barrels that can be cleaned out easily. Also, looking for a 15-gallon drum or two, open or closed head... Please email me offlist. Thanks for the suggestions about the trailer last week, I'm still looking on Craigslist. Mark From rudolfdiesel at netzero.com Tue Oct 9 21:00:13 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.com (rudolfdiesel at netzero.com) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:00:13 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting commentary in this week's Automotive News Message-ID: <20071009.210013.27038.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com> Hi Guido Reinking is the European editor of the leading news source of the auto industry, The Automotive News. I would love to just cut and past his article, but respect for copyright prohibits this. Instead, I will summarize what he wrote; Commenting on the Frankfurt Auto Show which ended recently, he pointed out that were cars only built for logical reasons, there would be no hybrids at the show. He believes marketing, not logic, is driving hybrid development. Guido claims that the buyer of a typical hybrid spends about $1425 (US) to prevent the emission of one ton of CO2, where as the same reduction of CO2 can be achieved in a Diesel, or even gasoline direct injection, at a cost of $710 and that assumes use of fossil fuel. His point: "Rational thought does not always shape political resolve" Based on my own reserach, I am in agreement with these figures. My commentary is that electric drive technologies such as regenerative braking and idle stop, which are the offspring of hybrid development, are efficiency improvers for vehicles. What is truly needed is the Diesel Hybrid, which could combine the best of all these systems and attain an efficiency in excess of 50%. Cost is the barrier, not technology. Rgds, Rich Cregar From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 06:27:41 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 06:27:41 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] VW one litre car 'not a top seller' Message-ID: <84a57a420710100327i4cd87ff8s959d0ed855218cc4@mail.gmail.com> Forwarding, as I'm not sure it went through. JB -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Matthew Rudolf To: BIG List Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:42:47 -0400 Subject: VW one litre car 'not a top seller' GERMANY: VW one litre car 'not a top seller' 9 October 2007| Source: just-auto.com editorial team Volkswagen Group CEO, Martin Winterkorn, has reaffirmed that VW will bring a one-litre car (consuming just one litre of fuel for every 100km [60 miles] driven) to the market by 2010 at the latest. Speaking at an international steel congress in Berlin, he was reported by a local newspaper as saying that, "the car will not be a top seller." The body of the car will be made principally from plastic and magnesium, making it significantly more expensive than a basic car. The engine will have two cylinders and 300cc capacity. Top speed should be around 120km/h. A one-litre car has been a dream of Volkswagen's chairman, Ferdinand Piech, since he was CEO of the group. The project was dropped by Bernd Pischetstrieder but has been revived again under Piech's influence. Piech said earlier this year that the project would be helped by falling prices for lightweight body parts, in particular plastics. Piech said a plastics manufacturer had told him that parts that currently cost EUR35,000 to produce would cost just EUR5,000, meaning that they become economically viable. "That was not possible in my time," said Piech, formerly CEO of Volkswagen. "This is progress." Piech was driven to his last annual general meeting as CEO in 2002 in a small two-seat one litre car prototype. The car had a carbon body and consumed just 0.89l of fuel per 100km. From gbathree at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 08:06:35 2007 From: gbathree at gmail.com (Greg Austic) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:06:35 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] =?windows-1252?q?Piedmont_is_collecting?= =?windows-1252?q?_used_fryer_oil_=96_and_we_need_your_help!?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The cooperative is taking a new look in an old direction: fryer oil collection from local restaurants, cafeterias, and anybody else with yellow grease. We're interested in picking up from anyone in this area, and we are looking for potential customers. That's where you can help: 1. Let us know of anyone who might be interested in having us pick up their waste fryer oil ? or just tell them about us (contact info is below). 2. Do a little Piedmont "name dropping" at your favorite greasy restaurant to get the owner thinking about switching to us ? your opinion means a lot to restaurant owners, so if they think you care, then they'll care. 3. If you really want, you can bring us oil from restaurants that your connected with (Bob's been doing it for a long time - thanks Bob!). 4. If you own a restaurant, give us a call! CONTACT: Greg Austic phone: 919 545 1083 email: greg at biofuels.coop Also, we are aware that lots of you out there might be using grease sitting behind dumpsters for your cars and trucks converted to run on WVO. Well, of course, we'd appreciate you not taking all our oil if you see it ? but we also recognize that we should be trying to provide good, settled WVO for those with converted vehicles. Please send us suggestions on how we might help WVOers get the oil they need in an easy, legal fashion ? if we think it's feasible we'll try to make it happen. Thanks for all your help and support! Greg Austic From info at theforestfoundation.org Thu Oct 11 08:12:46 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (info at theforestfoundation.org) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:12:46 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BBiofuels_=5FInterest?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5FGroup=5D_Piedmont_is_collecting_used_fryer_oil=96_and_w?= =?iso-8859-1?q?e_need_your_help!?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50394.71.65.245.194.1192104766.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Is this for coop or industrial's use? > The cooperative is taking a new look in an old direction: fryer oil > collection from local restaurants, cafeterias, and anybody else with > yellow grease. We're interested in picking up from anyone in this > area, and we are looking for potential customers. That's where you > can help: > > 1. Let us know of anyone who might be interested in having us pick up > their waste fryer oil ? or just tell them about us (contact info is > below). > > 2. Do a little Piedmont "name dropping" at your favorite greasy > restaurant to get the owner thinking about switching to us ? your > opinion means a lot to restaurant owners, so if they think you care, > then they'll care. > > 3. If you really want, you can bring us oil from restaurants that your > connected with (Bob's been doing it for a long time - thanks Bob!). > > 4. If you own a restaurant, give us a call! > > CONTACT: > Greg Austic > phone: 919 545 1083 > email: greg at biofuels.coop > > Also, we are aware that lots of you out there might be using grease > sitting behind dumpsters for your cars and trucks converted to run on > WVO. Well, of course, we'd appreciate you not taking all our oil if > you see it ? but we also recognize that we should be trying to provide > good, settled WVO for those with converted vehicles. Please send us > suggestions on how we might help WVOers get the oil they need in an > easy, legal fashion ? if we think it's feasible we'll try to make it > happen. > > Thanks for all your help and support! > > Greg Austic > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From gbathree at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 08:20:30 2007 From: gbathree at gmail.com (Greg Austic) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:20:30 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] =?windows-1252?q?=5BBiofuels_=5FInteres?= =?windows-1252?q?t=5FGroup=5D_Piedmont_is_collecting_used_fryer_oi?= =?windows-1252?q?l=96_and_we_need_your_help!?= In-Reply-To: <50394.71.65.245.194.1192104766.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> References: <50394.71.65.245.194.1192104766.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Message-ID: The new oil will be used at industrial. The coop will continue to use about 500 - 800 gallons per month, but everything above and beyond that will go to industrial. Greg On 10/11/07, info at theforestfoundation.org wrote: > Is this for coop or industrial's use? > > > The cooperative is taking a new look in an old direction: fryer oil > > collection from local restaurants, cafeterias, and anybody else with > > yellow grease. We're interested in picking up from anyone in this > > area, and we are looking for potential customers. That's where you > > can help: > > > > 1. Let us know of anyone who might be interested in having us pick up > > their waste fryer oil ? or just tell them about us (contact info is > > below). > > > > 2. Do a little Piedmont "name dropping" at your favorite greasy > > restaurant to get the owner thinking about switching to us ? your > > opinion means a lot to restaurant owners, so if they think you care, > > then they'll care. > > > > 3. If you really want, you can bring us oil from restaurants that your > > connected with (Bob's been doing it for a long time - thanks Bob!). > > > > 4. If you own a restaurant, give us a call! > > > > CONTACT: > > Greg Austic > > phone: 919 545 1083 > > email: greg at biofuels.coop > > > > Also, we are aware that lots of you out there might be using grease > > sitting behind dumpsters for your cars and trucks converted to run on > > WVO. Well, of course, we'd appreciate you not taking all our oil if > > you see it ? but we also recognize that we should be trying to provide > > good, settled WVO for those with converted vehicles. Please send us > > suggestions on how we might help WVOers get the oil they need in an > > easy, legal fashion ? if we think it's feasible we'll try to make it > > happen. > > > > Thanks for all your help and support! > > > > Greg Austic > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > -- Greg Austic 938 Bill Thomas Rd. Moncure NC 27559 cell 919 545 1083 Relevant both then and now: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4670423 From info at theforestfoundation.org Thu Oct 11 08:31:13 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (info at theforestfoundation.org) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BBiofuels_=5FInterest?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5FGroup=5D_Piedmont_is_collecting_used_fryer_oil=96_and_w?= =?iso-8859-1?q?e_need_your_help!?= In-Reply-To: References: <50394.71.65.245.194.1192104766.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Message-ID: <50410.71.65.245.194.1192105873.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Okay, we'll take any extra oil in the area, as we are gearing up as well. The benefit is the shorter distance in moving feedstock (lower carbon footprint) and the desire to serve restaurants in our community, offering them the opportunity to participate in a local sustainable energy option. Donated oil will be given to our non-profit, allowing the restaurant to write off the donation. This probably can't be done with industrial as they are for-profit. The non-profit can then sell the filtered, treated oil to iodiesel producers in the area at full value as a fundraiser for it's work in environmental education (at the State Fair this week, for instance). We contract Biologix, a restaurant service company, and our own mini-pumper truck to pick up the oil. Just let us know and thanks!! > The new oil will be used at industrial. The coop will continue to use > about 500 - 800 gallons per month, but everything above and beyond > that will go to industrial. > > Greg > > On 10/11/07, info at theforestfoundation.org > wrote: >> Is this for coop or industrial's use? >> >> > The cooperative is taking a new look in an old direction: fryer oil >> > collection from local restaurants, cafeterias, and anybody else with >> > yellow grease. We're interested in picking up from anyone in this >> > area, and we are looking for potential customers. That's where you >> > can help: >> > >> > 1. Let us know of anyone who might be interested in having us >> pick up >> > their waste fryer oil ? or just tell them about us (contact info is >> > below). >> > >> > 2. Do a little Piedmont "name dropping" at your favorite >> greasy >> > restaurant to get the owner thinking about switching to us ? your >> > opinion means a lot to restaurant owners, so if they think you care, >> > then they'll care. >> > >> > 3. If you really want, you can bring us oil from restaurants that your >> > connected with (Bob's been doing it for a long time - thanks Bob!). >> > >> > 4. If you own a restaurant, give us a call! >> > >> > CONTACT: >> > Greg Austic >> > phone: 919 545 1083 >> > email: greg at biofuels.coop >> > >> > Also, we are aware that lots of you out there might be using grease >> > sitting behind dumpsters for your cars and trucks converted to run on >> > WVO. Well, of course, we'd appreciate you not taking all our oil if >> > you see it ? but we also recognize that we should be trying to provide >> > good, settled WVO for those with converted vehicles. Please send us >> > suggestions on how we might help WVOers get the oil they need in an >> > easy, legal fashion ? if we think it's feasible we'll try to make it >> > happen. >> > >> > Thanks for all your help and support! >> > >> > Greg Austic >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > >> >> >> > > > -- > Greg Austic > 938 Bill Thomas Rd. > Moncure NC 27559 > cell 919 545 1083 > > Relevant both then and now: > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4670423 > From wooster at coastalnet.com Thu Oct 11 08:37:27 2007 From: wooster at coastalnet.com (BENJAMIN F BARNES) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] WVO Message-ID: <410-2200710411123727765@coastalnet.com> Everyone I have around 60 plus gallons of WVO that had too high a FFA concentration for biodiesel. I could not get it to titrate My supplier changed oil types and I collected this oil before I found out. Luckily he is going to switch back, The oil is in the vicinity of Rocky Mount North Carolina. If I can find a WVO er who needs it I don't know anything else to do with it. I could probably help some with transportation. Some of the oil is in a drum on a trailer. The oil is well settled and should have very little water in it. Thanks BENJAMIN F BARNES wooster at coastalnet.com Why Wait? Move to EarthLink From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Thu Oct 11 15:35:37 2007 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:35:37 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] wanted to buy: two steel barrels, not oily In-Reply-To: <8C9DA4C5910B63B-CD8-D3CD@webmail-md11.sysops.aol.com> References: <470C542C.90008@localb100.com> <8C9DA4C5910B63B-CD8-D3CD@webmail-md11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <470E7B09.5080409@localb100.com> Thank you thank you thank you! Anyone know of a source for 30-gallon drums by chance? Mark dhovander at aol.com wrote: > Im not sure of your location but DH Griffith in Greensboro NC has (or > had earlier this summer) hundreds of steel open head barrels with > sealable steel lids (by ringclamp). They have the plastic liner in > them that just pulls out leaving a pristine barrel. The barrels were > used for pharmaceuticals and were cleared to be resold according to > the sticker on the side. They were asking $5 each. > > Hope this helps > > don hovander > > > -----Original Message----- > From: girl mark > To: Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > Sent: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:25 am > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] wanted to buy: two steel barrels, > not oily > > I'm looking for two steel barrels, either closed head or (better) open > > head. The important thing to me is that they didn't contain oils at any > > point. I'd prefer food-grade or methanol barrels that can be cleaned out > > easily. > > > > Also, looking for a 15-gallon drum or two, open or closed head... > > > > Please email me offlist. > > > > Thanks for the suggestions about the trailer last week, I'm still > > looking on Craigslist. > > > > Mark > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail > ! From marc at carolinabiofuels.org Fri Oct 12 12:32:54 2007 From: marc at carolinabiofuels.org (Marc Dreyfors) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:32:54 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] TDI fuel gauge issues Message-ID: <470FA1B6.5070900@carolinabiofuels.org> Hey Everyone, Nope, not selling cars. We have a 2002 TDI jetta wagon (yeah, yeah not bragging and yes we are lucky) and just went through some filter changes and the heat sensor replacement. Upon completion the fuel gauge did not work and then bounced back to life. We just had an incident where we thought the filter was clogged again and then the fuel pump was not working, checked the fuel pump, plenty of suction, and then the filter, using a gravity fed tank and found out the tank was empty though the gauge was at 1/4. Has anybody had gauge problems with bio? Natural replacement rate for the in tank level? Thanks, Marc My the Lard be with you! From shiftlink at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 14:39:35 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:39:35 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] TDI fuel gauge issues In-Reply-To: <470FA1B6.5070900@carolinabiofuels.org> References: <470FA1B6.5070900@carolinabiofuels.org> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0710121139k2309a2fcw5b99666d08c53483@mail.gmail.com> Those things are variable resistors operated by a float on the end of a long steel rod. The sensor itself is directly exposed to fuels. I would not expect any special problems due to using B100. And there is not a particularly common issue with them either. The fact that you says the fuel gauge bounced back to life makes me think it's a wiring harness problem, maybe even just a loose connector. But it is possible for those sending units to wear out, sometimes the pivot point for the arm wears to the point that the contacts are no longer closed on the resistor, some times the contacts just wear out, either would require replacement of the in tank sending unit. There are two different variations on that sensor one has a replaceable module that goes in the housing and one you need to replace the entire housing, that just depends on the production date. The first is cheaper at about $100 and the later with the entire housing is about $150. I'd check the harness first, however, before buying any parts. Cameron 336-226-0540 On 10/12/07, Marc Dreyfors wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > Nope, not selling cars. > > We have a 2002 TDI jetta wagon (yeah, yeah not bragging and yes we are > lucky) and just went through some filter changes and the heat sensor > replacement. Upon completion the fuel gauge did not work and then > bounced back to life. We just had an incident where we thought the > filter was clogged again and then the fuel pump was not working, checked > the fuel pump, plenty of suction, and then the filter, using a gravity > fed tank and found out the tank was empty though the gauge was at 1/4. > > Has anybody had gauge problems with bio? Natural replacement rate for > the in tank level? > > Thanks, > > Marc > > My the Lard be with you! > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Oct 12 15:42:19 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:42:19 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Energy Bill, Farm Bill, etc. Message-ID: With much gratitude to the 25x'25 Coalition for these updates... NATIONAL POLICY UPDATES Energy Legislation to Move without Conference Committee House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) will not convene a formal conference committee on energy legislation pending in both the House and Senate. Aides to the speaker said following a meeting Pelosi had with Democratic leaders Wednesday that instead, the House and Senate can now be expected to arrive at identical bills outside the conference committee process. The identical bills will then be brought to both floors and voted upon without amendment to be sent to President Bush. Other legislation moved this year outside the conference committee structure includes a lobbying reform bill, as well as a recent children's health insurance bill. Significant differences between the bills now pending in each chamber include mileage standards in the Senate version and renewable energy requirements mandated in the House legislation. The Pelosi aides said there is no timetable for passing a final energy bill, but quoted the speaker as saying energy legislation remains "a top priority." Farm Bill Stalls in Senate On the farm bill front, several key members of the Senate Agriculture Committee remain in disagreement over reforming the current law's commodity title, leading to some alternative proposals from Chairman Tom Harkin (D-IA), Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND) and Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA). Harkin and other committee members are continuing discussions that could lead to an agreement, though Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has said that if no agreement is reached by late this year, he will move a version of the 2007 Farm Bill passed by the House in July. None of the proposals currently under discussion among Senate committee members provide new funding in the bill's energy title beyond a mandatory $400 million in Harkin's proposal. The House bill energy title provides $2.4 billion over five years. Senate Finance Panel Adopts Farm Energy Tax Provisions The Senate Finance Committee late last week voted, 17-4, to approve a $16 billion tax bill that includes a number of farm-related renewable energy provisions. The finance legislation is expected to be added to a 2007 Farm Bill originally set for markup by the Senate Agriculture Committee last week, but postponed for at least two weeks. While the big provision in the Senate Finance-approved "Heartland, Habitat, Harvest, and Horticulture Act of 2007," or "4-H Act," is a $5 billion trust fund that will help pay for a permanent disaster assistance program for farmers, the measure also includes language that would extend ethanol and biodiesel tax credits, and establish a new cellulosic tax credit as well as a new wind property credit. Renewable energy provisions in the tax legislation include: Residential Wind Credit: Currently, there are no tax incentives for residential wind property. The proposal creates a new 30 percent personal credit for residential wind property, capped at $4,000 per year. The cost is $5 million over ten years. Small Producer Credit for Cellulosic Alcohol: The package, as proposed, creates a new production tax credit for cellulosic alcohol of 50 cents per gallon (in addition to the current 51 cents/gallon credit and 10 cent/gallon credit) for up to 60 million gallons of cellulosic fuel production in a taxable year. An amendment adopted by the committee from Sen. Ken Salazar (D-CO), a primary sponsor of the 25x'25 resolution adopted by the Senate, would further increase the value of the cellulosic ethanol credit from $1.11 per gallon to $1.28. Another amendment, from Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) would extend the h of the cellulosic ethanol credit by making it subject to available funds. The cost is $828 million over ten years. Expand Expensing for Cellulosic Ethanol Facilities: The proposal expands the eligible property qualifying for the 50-percent expensing to include alcohol produced from any lignocellulosic or hemicellulosic matter that is available on a renewable or recurring basis. Cost is $1 million over ten years. Small Ethanol Producer Credit: The proposal extends for two years (through December 31, 2012) the 10-cent-per-gallon tax credit on the first 15 million gallons of ethanol production for producers with annual capacity of not more than 60 million gallons. Cost is $172 million over ten years. Fossil-Free Alcohol Production Credit: The proposal creates a new small producer alcohol credit of 25 cents per gallon for facilities that produce ethanol through a process that does not use a fossil-based resource available through December 31, 2012. Cost is $278 million over ten years. Biodiesel Tax Credits: Extends for two years (through December 31, 2010) the $1.00 and 50-cent production tax credits for biodiesel, and extends for four years (through December 31, 2012) the 10-cent per-gallon tax credit on the first 15 million gallons of biodiesel production for producers with annual capacity of not more than 60 million gallons. Cost is $267 million over ten years. Among the conservation-related provisions of the 4-H Act is language that will allow Conservation Reserve Program and Wetland Reserve Program participants to choose between the regular cash payment and a tax credit. By making tax credits an option to program participants, the committee says more than $3.8 billion in program payments will be saved to help offset other portions of the bill. Another spending offset found by the committee to pay for the proposed financing provisions is a reduction in the 51-cent-per-gallon tax credit for ethanol by 5 cents, beginning with the first calendar year after the year in which 7.5 billion gallons of ethanol has been produced. The bill also extends the tariff on imported ethanol for two years (through December 31, 2010), which will raise $25 million over ten years. The committee also agreed to extend an alternative fuels credit, including coal-to-liquid fuel, currently due to expire in 2009, for another year, until 2010. Developers must show they can capture half of the carbon emissions from a CTL facility over the next two years and push that percentage up to 75 by 2010. For more on the bill and a complete summary, Click Here. http://www.senate.gov/~finance/press/Bpress/2007press/prb100407a.pdf. ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri Oct 12 16:58:08 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:58:08 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Coop Member featured in Duke News! Message-ID: http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2007/10/veggieoil.html Durham, NC -- To look at Bob Clemen?s silver Volkswagen Jetta, nothing suggests it is any different from the dozens of other vehicles in the parking lot adjacent to Duke?s Fuqua School of Business. To ride in the car, there?s nothing to indicate that it isn?t just like the millions of other vehicles running on petroleum. But there is something different about Clemen?s automotive means of transportation, and he keeps an example of it in a Mason jar on his desk in the Fuqua School of Business. Biodiesel. It?s more eco-friendly, and it?s the fuel that gives the Jetta life. ?The main thing is it?s not petroleum-based,? said Clemen, a professor of decision sciences at Fuqua. ?So, I don?t have to fight a war in Iraq to have fuel for my car. And I don?t have to burn fossil fuel and put the fossil carbon into the atmosphere in order to drive my car.? Biodiesel is a clean-burning alternative fuel, produced from domestic, renewable resources. It contains no petroleum, but it can be blended at any level with petroleum diesel to create a biodiesel blend. It is produced from any animal fat or vegetable oil through a refining process called transesterification. Clemen, who says he?s a ?product of the ?60s environmental movement,? started using biodiesel about two years ago. He and his wife, Margaret, bought a diesel engine RV after doing their homework and deciding to trade in their model that ran on unleaded gasoline. They started using biodiesel in the new rig because, ?We thought this was a good thing to do.? That led to buying the diesel-engine Jetta and joining Piedmont Biofuels Cooperative in Pittsboro. Nearly every week, Clemen collects waste oil and drives it to Pittsboro, where Piedmont Biofuels refines the oil into fuel for his car. ?I turn the key, and it never ceases to amaze me,? Clemen said. ?This complicated machine is running on fuel made from waste vegetable oil.? The Jetta on biodiesel has similar fuel economy to unleaded gas ? mid 30 miles per gallon. The biodiesel burns cleaner, reducing carbon monoxide, sulfur oxides and sulfates emissions. ?I now have a different relationship with my fuel,? Clemen said. ?I make it. That takes effort and time. It?s a lot of fun. I like doing it. Now I think a little bit harder about putting trips together and being more efficient about what I do.? His passion carries over to the classroom. With Lincoln Pratson of the Nicholas School, Clemen ran an independent study last spring with more than a dozen Duke students who assessed the viability of collecting waste vegetable oil from restaurants near Duke. What would it take to have a collection route? What?s the cost? And would area restaurants be interested in contributing to the cause? Clemen said some students involved are interested in pursuing the study further as a part of a master?s project. Clemen hopes that one day, Duke will be able to have its own collection system, a reactor perhaps run by Duke students. He recognized, though, that most people don?t have the ability to trade in their current vehicles for one with a diesel engine. But that doesn?t mean people can?t do their part to raise their eco- consciousness. The best thing people can do, he said, is use compact- fluorescent light bulbs. ?You get bulbs that will reduce your energy consumption to just about one-tenth,? he said. ?That?s the simplest, easiest, inexpensive way to make a difference.? Home>2007>Running on Vegetable Oil From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Oct 12 17:31:44 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:31:44 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Props to CCCC Message-ID: CCCC receives two BioNetwork grants http://carolinanewswire.com/news/News.cgi?database=1news.db&command=viewone& id=7866&op=t 10-09-2007 PITTSBORO ? Central Carolina Community College?s biofuels education programs will move forward in a big way, thanks to two BioNetwork Fund grants recently awarded to it by the North Carolina State Board of Community Colleges. A $44,180 Phase II Biofuels Curriculum Development Grant will fund the creation of courses and workshops on biofuels production and utilization. The courses will be customized to address specific audiences, such as workers already in the biofuels industry, farmers growing crops to be made into biofuels, and entrepreneurs who want to start biofuels businesses. These courses will be offered through the college?s Small Business Center in Chatham County. Biofuels courses for the general public will continue to be offered through the college?s Continuing Education Department. The new $96,737 Biofuels Equipment Funding Grant will pay for equipment and supplies to expand fuel-testing capabilities in the biofuels analytics laboratory at the Chatham Campus. The State Board of Community Colleges voted to award the grants at its September meeting. CCCC?s biofuels programs will serve as prototypes and provide educational resources to other community colleges that want to offer a biofuels program. The new grants enable the college to build on the groundwork established in biofuels education by a previous BioNetwork grant. In 2006, the college received a $58,190 Phase I grant to research the work skills needed in the state?s growing biofuels industry and to develop a curriculum for a two-year Alternative Energy Technology: Biofuels associate degree. The degree program, the first at a North Carolina community college, will be offered at CCCC?s Chatham County Campus starting in fall 2008. Biofuels, the making of fuels out of plant and animal products, is a growing industry nationwide. They can be produced locally, cutting down on the dependence on foreign oil, decreasing air pollution, and keeping fuel profits in local economies. CCCC has been offering biofuels education courses through its Continuing Education Department since 2002. In 2005, a $50,000 allocation from the General Assembly paid for equipment to start a basic biofuels analytical testing laboratory at the Chatham Campus. CCCC?s work in biofuels industry workforce development fits into ?North Carolina?s Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership,? a roadmap developed for the state?s expansion in biofuels production and use. The plan grew out of the ?State Energy Use/Energy Assistance? act, passed by the General Assembly in 2006. The act was in response to the state?s dependence on imported petroleum fuel ? 5.6 billion gallons last year. It calls for in-state production of biofuels to replace at least 10 percent of its petroleum-based fuel imports within 10 years, stating, ?North Carolina?s goal ? is to develop a liquid biofuels industry that is substantial in output, agriculturally and economically important, sustainable, and significant across the state.? That can only be achieved by a major joint effort in research and development on biofuels sources, distribution and uses, growth in manufacturers ? and training a skilled workforce. That?s where CCCC and the grants for developing programs fit in. ?We?re setting the industry standard for biofuels workforce development in North Carolina,? said Karen Allen, Chatham Campus provost. From: Katherine McDonald CCCC News & Feature Writer (919) 718-7265 kmcdonald at cccc.edu From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Sat Oct 13 13:59:17 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:59:17 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] TDI fuel gauge issues Message-ID: <20071013.135917.14148.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com> Hi Mark Problem is the sensor consists of a metal wiper pad that crosses a strip of resistive film. One end of the resistive strip is grounded, and the wiper carries a reference voltage from the gauge unit. As the wiper gets further from the grounded end of the resistive strip, its voltage drop decreases and the fuel gauge can use this variable signal to operate a gauge. Problem is the resistive strip is copper based, and copper is attacked by methyl esters. You will need to anticipate that fuel senders will have a shorter life cycle due to use of Biodiesel. It is issues such as these that are causing much concern among vehicle engineers and contribute to their general reluctance to approve high % Bio fuel blends. Rich Cregar From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Mon Oct 15 10:48:58 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:48:58 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Hmmm, even pro-globalization groups are urging sustainability in biofuels production. Message-ID: Note their definition of sustainability in the final sentence. JB New Publication: "An Examination of U.S. and EU Government Support to Biofuels: Early Lessons" http://www.agritrade.org/Publications/EU_US_Biofuels.html "Both the U.S. and the EU are presently considering significant increases in their biofuels mandates in transportation fuel. IPC?s latest study, An Examination of U.S. and EU Government Support to Biofuels: Early Lessons, finds that in the absence of commercially viable second-generation biofuels, ambitious mandates coupled with high tariffs that serve to largely limit tax incentives to domestic producers, risk a disproportionate focus on U.S. and EU first-generation biofuels. The report also demonstrates that a lack of internationally agreed technical and sustainability standards as well as a lack of clarity about international trade obligations, can increase this tendency. The report urges the U.S. and EU to adopt policies that serve to promote those uses of biomass which are most energy efficient and show the greatest promise of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, regardless of national origin." ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From tes at unc.edu Mon Oct 15 14:52:41 2007 From: tes at unc.edu (tes thraves) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:52:41 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FW: Biofuels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: FYI http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/detail/UN_rapporteur_calls_for_biofuel_mo ratorium.html?siteSect=105&sid=8305080&cKey=1192127505000&ty=st October 11, 2007 - 9:30 PM UN rapporteur calls for biofuel moratorium Image caption: More and more corn is being used for biofuel at the expense of food, according to Jean Ziegler, UN Rapporteur on Food Rights. Switzerland's Jean Ziegler said the conversion of arable land for plants used for green fuel had led to an explosion of agricultural prices which was punishing poor countries forced to import their food at a greater cost. "232kg of corn is needed to make 50 litres of bioethanol," Ziegler said on Thursday. "A child could live on that amount of corn for a year." Using land for biofuels would result in "massacres", he said, predicting a reduction in the amount of food aid sent to developing countries by richer ones. "It's a total disaster for those who are starving." Ziegler's proposal for a five-year moratorium, which he plans to submit to the UN General Assembly on October 25, is aiming to ban the conversion of land for the production of biofuels. Ziegler said he hoped that by the time the moratorium was lifted science would have made sufficient progress to be able to create "second generation" biofuels, made from agricultural waste or from non-agricultural plants such as jatropha, which grows naturally on arid ground. Taking Brazil as an example, Ziegler said he deplored the fact that sugar cane plantations, whose products were used for biofuels, were spreading at the expense of food-producing land. He said ten hectares (100,000 square metres) of food-producing land could sustain an average of seven to ten farmers, whereas the same area could only produce enough sugar cane for one farmer. Threat to poor Only two years ago, with the twin spectres of peak oil prices and climate change looming, biofuels seemed the ideal alternative energy. Now it is the poor who have to contend with the flip side of biofuels: spiralling cereal prices, say experts. "The days of cheap food are over," said Joachim von Braun, director of the International Food Policy Research Institute, in an article for the Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation (SDC) in September. Over the past decade, while production of biofuels using corn, sugarcane, soybean and other staples has risen dramatically, malnutrition has continued. Nearly 900 million people worldwide suffer hunger, 70 per cent of them food producers, peasants and rural dwellers. Von Braun warns this figure could hit one billion in just a few years and that rising demand and increased bioenergy costs are affecting food prices. "The bioenergy market receives considerable state funding and is dominated by the heavyweights in the oil, cereal and automobile industry," he said. "Barring technological progress and enactment of regulations based on transparent standards, we are looking at a 20-40 per cent increase in food prices between now and 2020. And the poorest, some of whom live on 50 cents a day, will be unable to foot the bill." Environmental impact A study commissioned by the Swiss authorities in May also concluded that biofuels might not be the panacea for the world's fossil-fuel woes. Such fuels, touted as an ecologically friendly source of energy, might be more harmful for the environment than their fossil counterparts, it said. According to the authors, while it was true that biofuels might emit less greenhouse gases than fossil fuels when consumed, producing them was generally more stressful on the environment. Growing and processing crops for energy purposes or feedstock can have the heaviest environmental impact, as soil quality can be affected adversely, for example through fertiliser overuse. swissinfo with agencies ------ End of Forwarded Message From mattr at biofuels.coop Mon Oct 15 17:26:01 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:26:01 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Looking for a wood stove Message-ID: <4558D3D7-4994-4A41-BBC1-388704BBD9EF@biofuels.coop> Hey, Piedmont Biofuels coop is in need of a very large wood stove to heat our greenhouse for the winter. If anyone has a free standing wood stove in good working order that you would be willing to donate, or sell very cheap, please contact me at matt at biofuels.coop Thanks! Matt Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From mattr at biofuels.coop Mon Oct 15 18:06:07 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:06:07 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] CAFE and CO2 set automakers for "unprecedented change" Message-ID: CAFE and CO2 set automakers for "unprecedented change" 8 October 2007 With the US government pushing for higher CAFE limits and the European Commission set to impose new CO2 limits on car makers, the industry is braced for an unprecedented change, a Global Insight analyst said in a research note. Aaron Bragman said the regulatory landscape is changing globally, from CO2-linked taxes in Europe to a likely increase in the mileage [fuel economy] requirement in the United States. In both cases, serious advancements and investments in new powertrain technology will be required, and automakers will be unable to foot the bill alone in either region. His comments came after Global Insight held its annual Global Automotive Conference in Dearborn, Michigan, last week. Topics ranged from the progress of the Chinese and Indian markets to a snapshot of what the North American automotive production landscape will look like in 2012. Phil Gott, Global Insight?s director of automotive consulting, has put together a study that examines the ramifications of the passage of a bill currently under consideration in the US Congress. Currently, corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards are set at an average of 24.6 miles per [smaller US] gallon (mpg) - a combination of 27.5mpg for passenger cars and 22.2mpg for light trucks. The Senate bill calls for an increase to 35mpg combined (42.1mpg for cars, 28.7mpg for trucks) by 2020, which is generally considered by automakers and industry to be unattainable. Bragman noted that two competing bills in the House of Representatives are being considered: HR 1506 (the Markey bill) calls for even more stringent standards, upping combined CAFE ratings to 35mpg by 2019, with a combination of 43.3mpg for cars and 27.6mpg for trucks; while HR 2927 (the Hill-Terry bill) is supported by the industry, and calls for an increase to 32-35 mpg by 2022, with provisos that permit special allowances for automakers under certain new conditions. As just-auto reported elsewhere on Friday, hybrid leader Toyota has attracted flak from US environmentalists for siding with Detroit?s Big Three on the Hill-Terry bill. 35mpg by 2020 Bragman said Gott's study assumed that the requirement would be 35mpg combined (45mpg for cars, 30mpg for light trucks) by 2020 and determined that 35mpg was 15% better than the fuel economy of the four most fuel-efficient models available today, on average. If the entire passenger car fleet is considered, 35mpg combined represents an increase of almost 42% from the average 2006 level. Based on a study carried out by Global Insight director of North American research, Rebecca Lindland, of American consumer preferences in relation to small cars, it was then assumed that US consumers are not going to make a dramatic shift towards smaller cars, as they simply do not fulfil the needs of American consumers. So given the assumptions that American consumers will want to maintain their lifestyle, behavioural modification through taxation will not occur (unlikely, given the US political administration's aversion to taxation), and fuel prices will remain elevated at their current levels, what needs to happen to the vehicles themselves in order to meet the government's likely new standards? Or as Gott puts it, "What combination of segments, engines, and drivetrains would give you the lowest-risk, lowest-cost path to 35 miles per gallon by 2020?" Gott's study concluded that nothing short of a massive shift in powertrain technologies would be required to meet the new CAFE standards. By 2020, nearly two-thirds of the US vehicle fleet would need to be powered by a direct-injection engine (either petrol or diesel), downsized from the current displacements and turbocharged. Diesel would need to comprise one-third of the market. Half of all vehicles would need to be one of the four forms of hybrid, and half of those hybrids would also need to be diesel-equipped. 30% more powertrain cost According to Gott, the variable cost impact necessary to introduce such a stunning shift from port-injected gasoline engines (the vast majority of US powertrains) to the new configurations would require a staggering amount of investment. Automakers would face powertrain costs that are a minimum of 30% more expensive than the current lowest-cost technology, costs that would very likely be passed on to consumers. But the even bigger impact would come from the investment required in order to build the infrastructure that can make the new technologies. Automakers would have to make a capital investment in components to install direct-injection technology on 8m engines for the US market, invest in component plants and suppliers to make components for an additional 8m hybrids, and construct the equivalent of eight new diesel-engine manufacturing plants at a cost of nearly US$1bn each, not including associated fuel-injection and emissions controls systems manufacturing. Suppliers would have to be able to make up to 12m turbochargers a year, or more if two-turbo systems become more common. Investment in plants, technology, research, and products that can fulfil these goals would have to start occurring now. According to Gott, new drivetrain technologies routinely require 10-15 years before they achieve "mainstream" status in the market, such as the advent of port fuel injection, four-valve cylinder heads, front-wheel-drive, and so on. Investment needed now If the technologies described above are to be available in the quantities mentioned, pretty much the only reasonable way to achieve the likely government standards, massive investments must be made now in order to begin heading down that road. ?But the big problem is that none of the domestic automakers has the kind of cash on-hand necessary to undertake that kind of endeavour. Neither has the government shown a willingness to foot any significant portion of the bill either,? Bragman wrote. ?This leaves the situation in limbo, with a worrying combination of a populace that resists increased taxes to bring about behavioural change, a cash-strapped domestic industry just trying to stay afloat amid stiff international competition and detrimental economic conditions, and a political body that has proven itself more than capable of creating standards meant to show action on climate change with little in the way of support for making these attainable. ?It is highly unlikely that any true changes will come about to CAFE standards before the end of the George W Bush administration; certainly any legislation passed by Congress will receive a presidential veto, as President Bush has stated that he feels that new mandates should come from experts at the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and not from Congress. ?However, the writing on the wall says that CAFE increases are only a matter of time, and action will thus soon have to be taken one way or another to pursue these new technologies.? From tbuckner at ibiblio.org Mon Oct 15 21:33:37 2007 From: tbuckner at ibiblio.org (Terri Buckner) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:33:37 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] UNC Campus Sustainability Day Message-ID: <471414F1.8050606@ibiblio.org> Dear Friends and Colleagues, It?s time for celebration! Thanks to your efforts, Carolina is a leader in sustainability. To learn more about campus-wide progress and to share in a celebration of our accomplishments, please plan to attend Campus Sustainability Day on Friday, October 26. The Chancellor will be presented with the 2007 Campus Sustainability Report at 9:00 a.m. State Senator Janet Cowell will speak at 12:00 noon about high performance building and renewable energy legislation in North Carolina. There will be staffed displays and presentations throughout the day, so come when you can. You can learn about our energy, transportation, stormwater, recycling, and high performance building projects as well as Carolina North planning and our academic focus on sustainability. Food, drink, and Segway rides will be available throughout the day. The event will take place from 8:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. in the Johnston Center for Undergraduate Excellence in Graham Memorial Hall on McCorkle Place. Please post the attached flyer on your departmental bulletin board (let us know if you need a color copy) and circulate this notice on your listservs I hope to see you there. Cindy Cindy Pollock Shea, LEED AP Director, Sustainability Office UNC Chapel Hill, CB 1800 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-1800 Tel: (919) 843-5251 http://sustainability.unc.edu Change is inevitable. It's the resistance to change that's optional. From dentonconrad at netzero.net Tue Oct 16 08:07:00 2007 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:07:00 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Catalyst could revolutionize biodiesel production Message-ID: <4714A964.7090808@netzero.net> Catalyst could revolutionize biodiesel production http://machinedesign.com/ContentItem/70308/Catalystcouldrevolutionizebiodieselproduction.aspx From dentonconrad at netzero.net Tue Oct 16 08:10:55 2007 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:10:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Algae-powered jets Message-ID: <4714AA4F.7060000@netzero.net> " Sandia researchers are evaluating oil crops that will not compete with food and feed markets. They want crops that don?t need higher-quality agricultural land, and demand less energy and fresh water than other crops." http://machinedesign.com/ContentItem/70306/Algaepoweredmilitaryjets.aspx From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Oct 16 13:19:28 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:19:28 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel Mercs California-compatible again Message-ID: <2DC8736E-6FE1-4E45-B487-BFAC364E5A46@biofuels.coop> Diesel Mercs California-compatible again 16 October 2007| Source: just-auto.com editorial team Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) has used a fashion show to launch a version of its E320 Bluetec, a diesel sedan that will immediately be available in limited numbers in California through a special two-year/ 24,000-mile lease. California's stringent emissions requirements have kept new diesel cars off the California market for the better part of a decade. "In order to be able to provide the power and economy of diesel technology throughout the world, we had to make the diesel version as clean as the gasoline model. With Bluetec, nitrogen oxides can be reduced to such an extent that our diesel vehicles will satisfy the strictest emission regulations in the world - even in the future. This makes Mercedes-Benz the first manufacturer in the world to fully bring all exhaust gas components under control," said Leopold Mikulic, head of powertrain development at Mercedes-Benz Cars. MBUSA is offering the diesel E320 through a Mercedes-Benz Financial Services lease priced on par with the petrol E350. The special limited-mileage lease programme is the first step in the company's plans to offer consumers diesel alternatives in all 50 states. All-state-compliant diesels will be available across the SUV model lines (M, GL and R- Class) late next year and Mercedes will continue to add to its alternative powertrain offerings. Tom Cackette, executive director for the California Air Resources Board (CARB), said: "The E320 is testimony to demanding nothing but the cleanest vehicles for California. Mercedes-Benz has developed a diesel emission control system that results in a car as clean as comparable gasoline vehicles being sold here. ?This vehicle has shed the reputation of diesel as a dirty technology. And we hope California has shed its anti-diesel reputation by certifying this vehicle as the first diesel passenger car to meet the most stringent smog emission standards in the world." MBUSA president and CEO Ernst Lieb said the California market plays a critical role in the comeback of the diesel. "In addition to being one of the top automotive markets in the world, California has tremendous influence." A next step is the extension of the special lease programme to other states which do not currently allow sales of new diesel cars in January 2008. Later next year, Mercedes will introduce another Bluetec system on its M-, R- and GL-Class vehicles which AdBlue injection, a process that adds precisely measured quantities of a urea-based solution into the exhaust stream which enhances long-term emissions performance sufficient to meet the stringent BIN 5 standards. Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From johnesmart at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 17:09:34 2007 From: johnesmart at gmail.com (John Smart) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:09:34 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] John Deere 997 Message-ID: <1f494c800710161409i255ea087k6d1b2109ac871ea7@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone on the list have experience with running high % bio in a new John Deere 997 diesel mower under commercial conditions? Thanks in advance for sharing. John Smart From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Wed Oct 17 07:00:58 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:00:58 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel Mercs California-compatible again Message-ID: <20071017.070058.17482.0@webmail20.dca.untd.com> Thanks for the info. I wonder why nothing was mentioned as to whether these cars will also be available in the N.E. Compact states such as N.Y., which have adopted the CARB emissions standards and do not currently allow sales of this vehicle. Wake Tech will be presenting two Biodiesel Workshops this winter which will include a detailed description of Blu-tec technology and NOx reduction systems. Rich Cregar From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Wed Oct 17 07:03:27 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:03:27 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Makin Bio at the Fair Message-ID: <20071017.070327.17482.1@webmail20.dca.untd.com> Hi I will be brewing WVO Biodiesel at the Clean Cities booth Wed, Thur, Sat & Sun. Stop by and visit if you are around! Rich Cregar From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 12:19:58 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:19:58 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] OFF TOPIC: personal request Message-ID: <84a57a420710170919h4597c0dbqb3dcbc0bf9ada632@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends, I have been told that my letter to the editor of the Herald Sun was published this past Sunday. (See letter enclosed below.) It does not appear on their website, but I would like to obtain a copy of the printed letter. I don't plan to be in Orange County anytime soon, and I fear that I will miss finding it at a library. Are there any subscribers here who also take the Herald Sun newspaper, and might be willing to drop it in the mail to me? Please let me know and I'll send along my address. I would be much obliged for this small personal favor. Many thanks, John Bonitz ***************** Let's 'grow' more energy I'm proud of Chapel Hill Creamery and Pittsboro's Piedmont Biofuels for recently winning federal cost-share grants. These grants were two of 23 awarded to North Carolina farmers and rural businesses, to implement smart technologies for renewable energy and energy efficiency. The grant program is funded through the Farm Bill Energy Title. The cost-share grant funds are an incentive to encourage clean energy investments. All grant proposals are reviewed for technical merit by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL). This ensures that grant funds are invested in technologies with real benefits - both in terms of energy and the rural economy. Chapel Hill Creamery is capturing the sun's heat for milk processing. Piedmont Biofuels is further improving the efficiencies of their community-scale biodiesel plant. Other awardees are improving the energy efficiency of poultry houses, or saving energy in tobacco curing. This new equipment will save energy and money, and cut air pollution. By increasing their energy-productivity, these rural businesses and farmers are boosting the local economy and helping fight climate change. Sadly, funding for the Energy Title of the Farm Bill is in jeopardy. Please contact Senators Burr, Dole, Reid and McConnell to urge robust funding of the Energy Title by closing loopholes in the petroleum industry. Let's harness the powers of ingenuity, resourcefulness, and a drive for economic sustainability to help the environment and improve our balance-of-trade. Let's 'grow' more energy in our beautiful state: Give them a call. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Thu Oct 18 12:21:09 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:21:09 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Major NSF oilseeds research initiatives Message-ID: NSF Awards 26 New Grants to Seed Plant Systems Biology http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=110311 Looks very promising for oilseeds, in particular. ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Oct 19 12:17:58 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:17:58 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Tropical maize could be the Midwest's version of sugar cane Message-ID: Tropical maize could be the Midwest's version of sugar cane http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071016101454.htm "Early research results show that tropical maize, when grown in the Midwest, requires few crop inputs such as nitrogen fertilizer, chiefly because it does not produce any ears. It also is easier for farmers to integrate into their current operations than some other dedicated energy crops because it can be easily rotated with corn or soybeans, and can be planted, cultivated and harvested with the same equipment U.S. farmers already have. Finally, tropical maize stalks are believed to require less processing than corn grain, corn stover, switchgrass, Miscanthus giganteus and the scores of other plants now being studied for biofuel production. What it does produce, straight from the field with no processing, is 25 percent or more sugar -- mostly sucrose, fructose and glucose." ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Oct 19 13:35:20 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:35:20 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Farm Bill emerges! Message-ID: Dear Friends, The major impasse over the Farm Bill has apparently ended. Key Senate leaders have reached compromise, and the Farm Bill will proceed to Ag Committee mark-up this week. Debate will soon follow, perhaps in two or three weeks. I am uncertain as to the details of the Energy Title (especially Sections 9005 and 9006) but here's what I know so far about the provisions agreed by Harkin, Chambliss, and Conrad: ? A strengthened safety net for oilseeds is included. ? $2.8 billion in bio-energy and rural energy systems development ? $245 million to assist production of biomass crops ? $422 million in grants and loan guarantees for new biofuel refineries ? $270 million in grants and loan guarantees to incentivize use of biomass fuels in combined heat and power systems ? $145 million in R&D towards advanced biofuels ? $1.5 billion in Finance Committee-approved rural energy credits ? Adds the Finance Committee's permanent disaster program, to reduce the need for ad hoc responses and enhances economic security for farmers (which in turn enhances our national security as we increasingly rely upon farms for fuel) ? Maintains the current 39.2 mil acre enrollment in the Conservation Reserve Program, and invests $4.5 bil wildlife habitat improvements and envir protection. Source: http://www.minotdailynews.com/News/articles.asp?articleID=15347 QUOTE: ?What Chairman Harkin [IA], Senator Chambliss [GA] and I [Sen Kent Conrad of ND] have been doing is trying to reach consensus on a farm bill that will increase our investments in energy, nutrition and conservation, all while improving our safety net for farmers,? Conrad said. A different source noted one of the reforms under consideration: A provision that would ban subsidies to non-farmers whose income averages more than $750,000 a year, down from the current limit of $2.5 million. A House provision would ban subsidies to any farmers who have an average income of more than $1 million. That provision is not yet final, though. I believe that Sen Saxby Chambliss deserves our appreciation for his efforts in crafting this compromise. From what I have read, he has done good by southeastern farmers. The fight is not yet over, though. I'll share more as this develops. Sincerely, John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Fri Oct 19 13:37:01 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:37:01 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Tropical maize could be the Midwest's version of sugar cane Message-ID: Simon, I did not see answers to your questions at the link I provided. This is the first I?ve ever heard of it. So I imagine there is a lot of work still to be done, perhaps several more growing seasons, before your questions can be addressed. I reckon you saw the ?25% more sugar? figure? I suppose that this is in contrast to corn. Extrapolate that to 25% more sugar per acre, and assume higher mechanical processing costs to release the sugars from the stalks (as opposed to combining corn), who knows where it will come out. Great questions, tho. My hunch (pure speculation) is that it will be more energy efficient to make ethanol from tropical maize than from corn, but less energy efficient than sugarcane. Thanks, John ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Sat Oct 20 13:40:58 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:40:58 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off-topic: Applauding Dole for Global Warming Leadership Message-ID: Dear friends of biofuels, I'd like to applaud Senator Elizabeth Dole for her leadership on new climate change legislation. Such legislation will undoubtedly benefit the biofuels industries. For more information, check out the following press release. Sincerely, John October 19, 2007 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Ulla Reeves, Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, 828-254-6776 Group Applauds Dole?s Support of Climate Security Act North Carolina Senator?s Overdue on Global Warming Leadership Asheville, NC ? The Southern Alliance for Clean Energy applauds the announcement from Senator Elizabeth Dole?s office (R-NC) that she is an original cosponsor of America?s Climate Security Act (ACSA). Senator Dole is the only Southeastern Senator to join the bill introduced yesterday by Senators Lieberman (I-Connecticut) and Warner (R-Virginia). Other cosponsors include Senators Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland), Norm Coleman (R-Minnesota), Susan Collins (R-Maine), and Tom Harkin (D-Iowa). ?We have anxiously awaited Senator Dole?s leadership in addressing global warming pollution,? Jennifer Rennicks, federal policy coordinator for Southern Alliance for Clean Energy stated. ?Her support of this bill demonstrates a commitment to protect North Carolinians and our state from the impacts of global warming.? While the bill offers real, verifiable reductions of global warming pollution, it does fall short of the reduction targets recommended by scientists for climate stabilization. Under the bill, global warming pollution must be reduced 2% every year until 2050 to achieve a 70% reduction from 2005 levels. The bill protects the economy by creating a cap and trade market system that sets limits on carbon dioxide, but allows emitters to buy and sell pollution credits. The bill can be strengthened by increasing pollution reduction targets and by auctioning the pollution credits. About 25% of the nation?s global warming pollution sources are also missing from the bill and need to be added. ?We support 100% auctions of pollution credits in order to generate income to encourage clean energy industries while helping economically disadvantaged people transition in a carbon-constrained economy,? Rennicks said. The group also encouraged Senator Richard Burr to address the serious issue of global warming urgently by cosponsoring this or similar legislation. # # # ~ ~ ~ John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From tavanas at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 18:45:35 2007 From: tavanas at gmail.com (t avanas) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:45:35 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FS '87 Mercedes Benz 300TD wagon Message-ID: <471BD68F.6090500@gmail.com> here is the link to CL posting http://raleigh.craigslist.org/car/455626960.html > folks, > i am planning to sell my '87 Mercedes Benz 300TD wagon, i want to > offer it here before posting to craigslist or ebay. > > here are some details: > - 199k miles > - silver exterior > - blue MB Tex interior in very good condition > - third seat > - extensive service at A Better Wrench > - runs and drives well > - running on B100 > - some paint fade > - small amount of rust at jack points > - new brakes and tires all around > - asking $5600 obo > > thanks > > -saeed > one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics > is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Sun Oct 21 23:03:07 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:03:07 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Global Peaking Message-ID: <20071021.230307.5905.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Marion Hubbert predicted, in the late 50's, that production of oil in the United States would "peak" in the early 70's. He developed a theory for plotting the rate of decrease in production after the peak. (Hubbert's Curve) He was scoffed at by oil geologists at the time. He became somewhat more respected when our national oil output peaked in 1972, right on his schedule. Several years ago, oil geologist Matty Simmons predicted that globally, we would soon reach the same peak. In early 2006, he announced that global production of oil had, in fact, peaked in Dec. of 2005. At that time, his arguments looked reasonable and I began to include his statements and data into my alternative fuel presentations and workshops. A German energy consulting group has just released a study which supports Simmons conclusions. Energy Watch Group claims that the world peaked sometime in 06. Simmons said 12/05. Close enough for me. Assuming we have peaked, global production will likely follow Hubbert's curve. As EWG stated, this will mean that global oil production will slip from its present level of 80-85 million barrels/day to 39 mm/bbls/day by 2030. The decrease will ramp at about 7%/year. In the meantime, global demand for oil is expected to double by 2050. Energy Watch Group points out that this energy shortage will likely lead to "wars and social breakdown". Not a good situation, but I believe it is an accurate assessment. Shouldn't we act? Rich Cregar From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Sun Oct 21 23:29:15 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:29:15 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 2007 NC State Fair Message-ID: <20071021.232915.5905.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com> The Fair is over! At the Triangle Clean Cities Coalition tent the Wake Tech Bio-Diesel plant turned out about 40 gallons of fuel, during which time I think we successfully reached out to hundreds of adults and children and got the good news out about Biodiesel and Diesel technology. (As well as other renewable fuel options!) We also signed up alot of folks who indicated they will likely attend our Wake Tech Biodiesel Production Seminars being held this January & February at our Main Campus Automotive Complex. I want to thank all of the people who took their time to help out at the tent, especially Tobin. I also want to sincerely thank Marc and Bull City Biodiesel for their contribution of that excellent WVO feedstock for our plant. It's a beautiful clear, golden fuel- just as it should be! Please give them your support. Kindest regards to all; Rich Cregar Wake Technical College From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Oct 22 15:59:20 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:59:20 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Fuel quality class- this Wednesday! Message-ID: <10880A45-D3BF-40D2-B69C-281FB968223B@blast.com> North Carolina Biodiesel Quality Workshops Come to learn about creating and maintaining biodiesel that meets national quality standards. Workshop will run from 9:00 am - 4:00 pm. Wednesday, October 24, 2007 Biodiesel Quality Workshop, Cherry Research Farm, Goldsboro,NC Topics include: Overview of current ASTM specifications for biodiesel Analytical methods for quality control Proper handling, safety, and use guidelines in both production and distribution operations Biodiesel Production Training Policy and Economic Considerations Hands on quality testing demonstration Cost: $20, includes materials and lunch Space is limited and pre-registration is required. To register, please see here : http://www.trianglecleancities.org/workshop.shtml From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Oct 22 18:56:46 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:56:46 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] World's First 100% Biodiesel-Powered Jet Takes First Flight From Reno, NV Airport References: <9479d2777b514c0395efba55115bd13e@biofuelsjournal.com> Message-ID: http://www.psfk.com/2007/10/biodiesel-jet-takes-off.html > From skepticbill at mac.com Tue Oct 23 08:19:12 2007 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:19:12 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey all, Does anyone know of O rings for fuel lines for the 1998 E300 that don't degrade when you use bio? Is there some sort of viton equivalent out there? I run B100 most of the time but splash blend a bit of dino when it gets in the 40's. Recently I've run a few tankfuls of ULSD dino that I bought at the Citgo in Carrboro (I'm not singling them out mind you but as I sit here in Tioga's shop there is another Carrboronian E300 with fuel line/O-ring issues). Thoughts and suggestions appreciated, -Bill- From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Oct 23 14:40:36 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:40:36 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Jatropha article Message-ID: <6F1EFABD-3D10-439A-B1A7-1F169C511492@biofuels.coop> http://www.nature.com/news/2007/071010/full/449652a.html From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Tue Oct 23 15:30:09 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:30:09 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Conference, Asheville, NC 11/7/07 Message-ID: <20071023.153009.16067.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> An exciting, two track Biodiesel Workshop will be held Nov. 7, 2007 at the Asheville-Buncombe Community College in Candler, N.C. The event is sponsored by the N.C. Community College System BioNetwork and will feature both business track and consumer track workshops through the day. Workshops include Biodiesel 101, Bioheat & Off Road Applications, "Fueling Around With Diesels", Biodiesel business Finance, Feedstoick Issues, and more. Cost for the day, including lunch, is $25.00. Keynote speaker is Larry Shirley, Director of the NC Energy Office. Register for this conference at www.ncbionetwork.org [ncbionetwork.org] Questions? Give me a shout! Richard Cregar Educator/Instructor/Technical Writer Wake Technical College Clayton, North Carolina, USA From marc at carolinabiofuels.org Tue Oct 23 18:15:22 2007 From: marc at carolinabiofuels.org (Marc Dreyfors) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:15:22 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] RAINFOREST VICTORY: Uganda Government Finally Scraps Mabira Rainforest Giveaway Message-ID: <471E727A.5000203@carolinabiofuels.org> ALERT VICTORY *********************************************** RAINFOREST NEWS TODAY Uganda Government Finally Scraps Mabira Rainforest Giveaway *********************************************** Rainforest Portal a project of Ecological Internet, Inc. http://www.rainforestportal.org/-- Rainforest Portal http://www.rainforestportal.org/news/ -- Rainforest Newsfeed October 17, 2007 OVERVIEW & COMMENTARY by Dr. Glen Barry, Ecological Internet In a major victory for Uganda's people, rainforests, environment and ecologically sustainable development aspirations; the Ugandan government has finally scrapped controversial plans to allow Mabira rainforest, one of the country's largest and most important protected area, to be partially cleared for sugar production for biofuels. This may sound slightly familiar, as on a previous occasion it was reported the plan was dead but it came back to haunt us. Statements by the government this time are from the Minister of Finance, other numerous sources and are more firm. Mabira rainforest will remain protected, and a precedent has been set that protected rainforests must not be cleared for biofuel production. This is huge! The "Save Mabira Rainforest Crusade" represents a historical moment in Africa's modern environmental movement; as Ugandans used cell phones and Internet technologies to organize street protests. Ecological Internet has been extremely pleased to lead an international support campaign for Mabira protestors, as nearly two million protest emails were sent by 11,000 network participants (YOU!) from 111 countries. This was the most participation and total messages ever. Sadly, perhaps the biggest factor in the victory was the recent severe flooding throughout Uganda and neighboring countries which were widely reported to have been exacerbated by deforestation. We at Ecological Internet very much desire that seeds from the Mabira rainforest go forth to restore rainforests, development opportunities and peoples' hope. Please continue to take action and to forward messages to grow our reach and effectiveness. Current alerts can be found at http://www.ecoearth.info/alerts/ . g.b. To comment: http://www.rainforestportal.org/issues/2007/10/victory_uganda_government_fina.asp ******************************* RELAYED TEXT STARTS HERE: ITEM #1 Title: Country Uganda Scraps Controversial Rainforest Plan Source: Copyright 2007, Reuters Date: October 18, 2007 Uganda has agreed to scrap an unpopular plan to give a swath of protected rainforest to a sugar planter, the environment minister said on Wednesday. Maria Mutagamba told Reuters the government had finally rejected a request by the privately owned Mehta Group to destroy a third of Mabira Forest and convert it to sugarcane. "The idea of sugar growing in Mabira is no longer there. We are looking for money for other land," she said. Uganda's cabinet suspended the proposal by President Yoweri Museveni to give 7,100 hectares (17,540 acres) or nearly a third of Mabira Forest to Mehta's sugar estate in May, following a public outcry. Three people died in violent protests against the plan, including an Indian stoned to death by rioters. Mehta is owned by an ethnic Indian family. "A committee of cabinet was set up to examine the plan but did not get back to us. In the meantime, other land was identified," Mutagamba explained. Critics said razing part of Mabira would have threatened rare species, dried up a watershed for streams that feed Lake Victoria and removed a crucial buffer against pollution of the lake from two industrial towns. Scientists estimate some 20 percent of net global emissions of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that causes climate change, are the result of deforestation, because trees suck carbon from the atmosphere. Experts say Mabira sinks millions of tonnes of carbon. This was the second time the government has heeded public anger over plans to trash forests -- in May, it withdrew a license to Kenyan company, Bidco, to bulldoze a protected forest on an island in Lake Victoria to plant palm oil. A spokesman for President Museveni, Tamale Mirundi, said new land would have to be secured for the sugarcane. Mutagamba said land had been spotted but the complex, semi- feudal system of land ownership meant the government would have to buy the land itself from small-holders. "We want to encourage investors to do this kind of business. They can't start negotiating with 30,000 farmers." The government is trying to draw up maps of land available to investors in Uganda for sectors like coffee, sugar, manufacturing or tourism that do not encroach on forests. ITEM #2 Title: Govt Finally Drops Mabira Giveaway Source: Copyright 2007, Monitor Date: October 17, 2007 Byline: Enock Mayanja Kiyaga & Emmanuel Gyezaho THE Government has finally dropped plans to give away part of Mabira Forest to the Sugar Corporation of Uganda Ltd, ending months of public apprehension and controversy. The move will stand out as a sweet victory for environmental activists who have crusaded for months against the giveaway of the forest to the Mehta Industrial family which owns Scoul. Finance Minister Ezra Suruma on Monday announced that the government was abandoning the planned giveaway at a dinner hosted by the President of the Republic of Guyana, Bharrat Jagdeo, in Georgetown, Guyana. "We have committed ourselves to conserving Mabira Forest," Dr Suruma said, stressing that the government is at the forefront of conserving forests. Pressed to substantiate, Dr Suruma said: "There is other land in Uganda suitable for sugarcane growing." Dr Suruma is in the South American country to attend the 2007 Commonwealth Finance Ministers' Meeting (CFFM) on climate change. The conference, which precedes the IMF and World Bank meeting in Washington DC and Chogm in Uganda, is organised by the Commonwealth secretariat to create a platform for member countries from both developed and developing countries sit together to agree on a common position. Water and Environment Minister Maria Mutagamba told Daily Monitor yesterday that if Dr Suruma has spoken, then his word can not be doubted. "If the Minister of Finance is saying that Mabira won't be sold, then that is a fact. He has had the authoritative position of the government." The new government position, she said, is contained in a report by a Cabinet subcommittee that was created to consider the proposal to allocate 7,1000 hectares of the natural rainforest to the Mehta family to expand its sugar estate. Although the report is yet to be discussed in Cabinet, she said, "It is a happy ending, isn't it?" Sporadic riots broke out in the country in April, claiming the lives of one Indian and five Ugandans, over the planned forest giveaway but more than five months later, no official government position had been reached. Last month, Ms Mutagamba told Parliament that no decision had been taken on whether to degazzette or give out part of Mabira to Scoul "or to any other person" because the Cabinet sub-committee was yet to conclude its investigations. Following growing outrage and public hostility over the proposal, several land owners, including the Kabaka of Buganda, offered the Mehta family alternative land on which to expand their sugar estate but the government insisted none would be as cost effective as Mabira. But the Suruma announcement will go miles in soothing tensions over the forest. Shadow Environment Minister Beatrice Anywar Atim, who is the chief campaigner of the Save Mabira Crusade, yesterday commended the government for backtracking on the proposal. "Wow, that is really good news for me and congratulations to the whole country. We must thank the government for listening to the voice of the people," said Ms Anywar, also Kigtum woman MP. "It would have been a shame to violate what matters to the rest of the world." Focusing on the special theme for the meeting - The Challenges Facing Finance Ministers, Dr Suruma said his ministry had responded vigorously to climate change by re- adjusting the budget to address the flood disaster in northern and eastern Uganda. He said Shs22 billion had been committed to the cause as a supplementary budget to be spent on roads, food, aid and re-settlement. At least 44 finance ministers in the Commonwealth are attending the conference. Speaking at the opening of the meeting, President Bharrat Jadgdeo warned against tropical deforestation as a major way of addressing the issue of climatic change. He noted that deforestation contributes 18 per cent of the global greenhouse gas emissions- which is about the same as the US, the equivalent of India and China combined, and more than a cumulative total of aviation since aviation began. He said in 24 hours, deforestation will release as much carbondioxide into the atmosphere as 8 million people flying from London to New York. "That climate change demands the attention of global leaders is no longer in doubt," he said. The Commonwealth Deputy Secretary General, Mr Ransford Smith, said Climate change represents, perhaps, the single largest challenge to the world's collective future. He warned that as the world looks for ways to reduce carbon emissions and mitigate the effects of climate change, it is clear that Finance ministers and global economic institutions have a key contribution to make. The meeting ends today. --- You are subscribed to ecological_internet as marc at forestsoftheworld.com. Before unsubscribing, please consider modifying your list profile at: http://www.ecoearth.info/subscribe/welcome.asp?email=marc at forestsoftheworld.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to leave-ecological_internet-120486F at email.ecoearth.info Or click here: http://email.ecoearth.info/u?id=120486F&n=T&c=F&l=ecological_internet To subscribe, send a blank email to join-ecological_internet at email.ecoearth.info Or visit here: http://www.ecoearth.info/subscribe/ From mackin at email.unc.edu Tue Oct 23 18:40:57 2007 From: mackin at email.unc.edu (Will Mackin) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:40:57 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I (actually Don Mueller kindly did the work because he's awesome) replaced the o-rings in my fuel pump last year (VW 2001 TDI). It's a ULSD thing. It takes the aromatics out of the fuel. I was using in combination with SVO, but I think it was the ULSD. This problem happened to many many many TDI's last year. It might be catching up to the Mercedes now. You need viton seals. Mine have not leaked since replacement. I think Tioga can confirm that the ring changes have tended to solve the problem over the last year. Will On Oct 23, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > Does anyone know of O rings for fuel lines for the 1998 E300 that don't > degrade when you use bio? Is there some sort of viton equivalent out > there? > I run B100 most of the time but splash blend a bit of dino when it > gets in > the 40's. Recently I've run a few tankfuls of ULSD dino that I bought > at the > Citgo in Carrboro (I'm not singling them out mind you but as I sit > here in > Tioga's shop there is another Carrboronian E300 with fuel line/O-ring > issues). > > Thoughts and suggestions appreciated, > > -Bill- > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Tue Oct 23 19:46:01 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:46:01 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio Message-ID: <20071023.194601.16134.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> You are correct-- It is a ULSD thing. I have been replacing them in Mercedes since summer 06. ULSD phase in began in the spring of 06. Same thing happened back in 95-96 when we did the initial diesel reformulation and went from S1500 to S500, only then nobody knew it was coming! Rich Cregar From Christy.Raulli at facilities.unc.edu Wed Oct 24 08:01:02 2007 From: Christy.Raulli at facilities.unc.edu (Raulli, Christy A (Sustainability Office)) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:01:02 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio In-Reply-To: <20071023.194601.16134.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> References: <20071023.194601.16134.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <7D5DFDD99573BC49BB0CF6F5175F005B0B76E2B969@facmailmb1.facilities.unc.edu> I've been concerned about this, too. I use B99 or B100 in my 2000 Golf, but in a pinch or out of town, I'll use a tank of USDL. Anybody want to hazard a guess at how often it's ok to do this before the rings crack? Or, should I switch over to viton seals anyway? Thanks! christy -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:46 PM To: mackin at email.unc.edu Cc: skepticbill at mac.com; biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio You are correct-- It is a ULSD thing. I have been replacing them in Mercedes since summer 06. ULSD phase in began in the spring of 06. Same thing happened back in 95-96 when we did the initial diesel reformulation and went from S1500 to S500, only then nobody knew it was coming! Rich Cregar _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From info at theforestfoundation.org Wed Oct 24 10:01:20 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:01:20 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] [Fwd: An easy tip to help reduce global warming] Message-ID: <471F5030.4060002@theforestfoundation.org> This is an important consideration when determining farmland/natural area for oilseed vs. food production debate. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: An easy tip to help reduce global warming Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:30:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: jphealer Reply-To: jphealer To: tomdavishome Could you decrease global warming and perhaps improve your own health as well? Simple, just limit the amount of meat and dairy products you eat. You don't have to give them up, just limit them to healthy amounts. For a healthy you and a healthy planet--JP YOUR DIET IMPACTS ENVIRONMENT MORE THAN YOUR CAR 13 PERCENT = The percentage of greenhouse gases created by all trucks, SUVs, cars, airplanes, trains and other transportation. 18 PERCENT = The amount of greenhouse gases created by livestock production. Source: United Nations Moral of the story: If you are an average U.S. meat eater, reducing your meat consumption to 2 ounces per day is roughly equivalent to doubling your vehicle's fuel efficiency, in terms of greenhouse gas reduction. IS IT OKAY TO EAT MEAT? Researchers from Cornell have published a study that reopens the debate over whether it's better for the environment to be an omnivore or a vegetarian. According to the study, a low fat carnivore diet with a limited amount of meat, dairy and/or eggs is actually a more efficient use of the land. The explanation is relatively simple: if you are trying to sustainably produce the maximum amount of food nutrients on a plot of land, the high value soil is better suited for food plants, whereas low value land can create more food via grazing livestock or wild game than by planting crops. Researchers noted that the average modern meat eater consumes levels of meat and dairy that are nearly three times what would be considered "efficient". Although specific geographical areas may result in varying equations, the study's land analysis found that the amount of omnivore intake for environmental efficiency is 2 cooked ounces per day. That amounts to around the size of two decks of cards every three days. Learn more and share your opinions about this study in OCA's web forum. Please take our quick poll there too, so we can determine how many readers are vegan, vegetarian, omnivore and carnivore: http://organicconsumers.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=447 ___________________________________ From phil at causative.net Wed Oct 24 10:19:40 2007 From: phil at causative.net (Philip Olinger) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:19:40 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471F547C.4010907@causative.net> I've been able to avoid the ULSD-related problems in my '02 and '03 VW TDIs by making sure that I never drop below B20. This does somewhat limit long road trips, because it forces me to start off with B80-B100 and fill up at the half-tank, and then do it again, etc. There's usual at least one biodiesel station somewhere along my long trip routes to top the biodiesel back up, so that extends the trip. Great mileage helps, too - there's nothing like going up to D.C. or out to the beach on 1 tank of fuel each way. :) --Phil Olinger Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > Does anyone know of O rings for fuel lines for the 1998 E300 that don't > degrade when you use bio? Is there some sort of viton equivalent out there? > I run B100 most of the time but splash blend a bit of dino when it gets in > the 40's. Recently I've run a few tankfuls of ULSD dino that I bought at the > Citgo in Carrboro (I'm not singling them out mind you but as I sit here in > Tioga's shop there is another Carrboronian E300 with fuel line/O-ring > issues). > > Thoughts and suggestions appreciated, > > -Bill- > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Wed Oct 24 10:52:08 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:52:08 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FW: We Can't Wait for Politicians to Embrace Clean Energy In-Reply-To: <20071023213400.AB14FB806D@alpha.alternet.org> Message-ID: Dear Friends, I often get questions as to the status of the federal Energy Bill. "Will we ever get a federal Renewable Energy Portfolio Standard?" "Are we going to see new CAF? standards?" In answer to these and many other questions, this is the single best update on it that I've seen in many months. "We Can't Wait for Politicians to Embrace Clean Energy" http://www.alternet.org/environment/65058 Tagline: Politicians in Washington are years away from embracing a massive investment in clean energy. We must start an energy revolution ourselves. Note: I disagree that we should entirely abandon hope of Federal progress. In a political environment where Sen. Elizabeth Dole co-sponsors a good bill to mitigate climate-change, there is plenty of room for optimism. Interesting quotes from the article: "Matt Letourneau, energy policy aide to Sen. Pete Domenici, the ranking member of the Senate energy committee, said that a national RES would be unfair to some regions of the country that don't have abundant renewable resources, particularly the Southeast. He said the standard is too high and it is "not possible" to get 15 percent of the region's power from renewable energy." "But Scott Sklar, a solar energy lobbyist, said that there is plenty of renewable energy in the Southeast. "The Southeast is biomass rich and solar rich. Solar could provide 5-6 percent of the region's power, wind, 1-2 percent, and biomass, 10-15 percent. The waste biomass from Hurricane Katrina alone could provide power for 30 years." Utilities can also substitute up to 4 percent of the target with increases in efficiency." "Lynn Hargis, a former attorney with FERC, who now works for Public Citizen monitoring energy regulation, said that the real problem is giant utility companies in the South like Duke, Entergy and Southern Company that want to make huge profits selling cheap coal-generated power in unregulated markets." Sincerely, John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. From wenck at unc.edu Wed Oct 24 10:59:37 2007 From: wenck at unc.edu (Wendy Wenck) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:59:37 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives In-Reply-To: <471F547C.4010907@causative.net> References: <471F547C.4010907@causative.net> Message-ID: <471F5DD9.90507@unc.edu> I am thinking of using a diesel additive, on the advice of my mechanic. We just had to replace a fuel filter that clogged (at 12K rather than usual interval of replacing every 20K) that annoyingly left me stranded and caused me to miss a friend's funeral. My mechanic is concerned about the injectors, based on what he has read online and repairs he has already done on TDIs (I was their first but am not their only customer running on biodiesel) however he thinks that we may avoid troubles with the injectors if I add a dose of additive at a minimum of every other tank. They are recommending Chevron, or Justice Bros, or any other good-quality brands. My car is a 2003 VW Golf TDI, and I am running on B99 most of the year. Will start adding 20% or more dino soon when temperatures drop. My car has just under 75K on it, I have run on bio or high blend for most of that, and so far I have just done scheduled maintenance and replaced three glow plugs. I would appreciate any recommendations on diesel additives with biodiesel, and what your experiences have been with them. Thanks, Wendy -- Wendy E. Wenck Herb Garden Curator North Carolina Botanical Garden University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Campus Box 3375, Totten Center Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3375 (919)962-0522 wenck at unc.edu www.ncbg.unc.edu From shipyardphil at yahoo.com Wed Oct 24 12:02:59 2007 From: shipyardphil at yahoo.com (Phil Carter) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio Message-ID: <638367.21432.qm@web50808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just making sure ya'll have seen this site: http://nearbio.com/ It can send bio stations to your cell phone. Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: Philip Olinger To: Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) Cc: "biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net" Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:19:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio I've been able to avoid the ULSD-related problems in my '02 and '03 VW TDIs by making sure that I never drop below B20. This does somewhat limit long road trips, because it forces me to start off with B80-B100 and fill up at the half-tank, and then do it again, etc. There's usual at least one biodiesel station somewhere along my long trip routes to top the biodiesel back up, so that extends the trip. Great mileage helps, too - there's nothing like going up to D.C. or out to the beach on 1 tank of fuel each way. :) --Phil Olinger Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > Does anyone know of O rings for fuel lines for the 1998 E300 that don't > degrade when you use bio? Is there some sort of viton equivalent out there? > I run B100 most of the time but splash blend a bit of dino when it gets in > the 40's. Recently I've run a few tankfuls of ULSD dino that I bought at the > Citgo in Carrboro (I'm not singling them out mind you but as I sit here in > Tioga's shop there is another Carrboronian E300 with fuel line/O-ring > issues). > > Thoughts and suggestions appreciated, > > -Bill- > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Wed Oct 24 12:47:46 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:47:46 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives Message-ID: <20071024.124746.13202.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Use "Diesel Treat" Available at most truck stops. It includes algicides (The likely cause of your breakdown), anti gels and a lubricant package. (Which you don't need with Biodiesel). As I recall, a gallon treats over 1k gal. of fuel. I suggest early on you double the dosage for a few tanks. Technron, by Chevron, is an excellent cleaner but does not contain the algicides that you need. Rich Cregar From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Wed Oct 24 13:01:16 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:01:16 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio Message-ID: <20071024.130116.13202.2@webmail11.dca.untd.com> I would not be concerned about running ULSD on long trips. Even if there is a possibility of O ring cracking, this process requires long term exposure and multiple fill ups before the Biodiesel in your tank is depleted. Going through a tank or two is not going to provide that type of exposure. Stop worrying, enjoy your vehicle and enjoy driving the highways of America. Rich Cregar From evan at biofuels.coop Wed Oct 24 13:51:49 2007 From: evan at biofuels.coop (Evan Ashworth) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:51:49 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio In-Reply-To: <7D5DFDD99573BC49BB0CF6F5175F005B0B76E2B969@facmailmb1.facilities.unc.edu> References: <20071023.194601.16134.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> <7D5DFDD99573BC49BB0CF6F5175F005B0B76E2B969@facmailmb1.facilities.unc.edu> Message-ID: <755D93F5-E88C-4BC6-B857-C70FDAD3E4B5@biofuels.coop> From my understanding, the best thing to do is to try and use a consistent blend. Biodiesel tends to swell seals, and ULSD tends to shrink them, so jumping back and forth between really high and really low blends puts the most stress on those parts. If you kept five gallons of bio in the trunk, you'd be equipped to add some lubricity to a tankful of diesel if you get stuck in petroleum land. -Evan Piedmont Biofuels On Oct 24, 2007, at 8:01 AM, Raulli, Christy A (Sustainability Office) wrote: > I've been concerned about this, too. I use B99 or B100 in my 2000 > Golf, but in a pinch or out of town, I'll use a tank of USDL. > Anybody want to hazard a guess at how often it's ok to do this > before the rings crack? Or, should I switch over to viton seals > anyway? > > Thanks! > christy > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net > [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf > Of rudolfdiesel at netzero.net > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:46 PM > To: mackin at email.unc.edu > Cc: skepticbill at mac.com; biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio > > You are correct-- It is a ULSD thing. > I have been replacing them in Mercedes since summer 06. ULSD phase > in began in the spring of 06. Same thing happened back in 95-96 > when we did the initial diesel reformulation and went from S1500 to > S500, only then nobody knew it was coming! > Rich Cregar > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Wed Oct 24 21:18:44 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:18:44 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1998 E300 - O rings and bio Message-ID: <20071024.211844.4764.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> ULSD does not shrink seals! It only shrinks seals that have been exposed to S500 for some time prior to exposure to ULSD! The amount of S500 in our fuel stream has become almost negligible over the past year. There are two different issues here: One is the shrinkage of seals saturated in S500 after the S500 went away (a one time occurence), Two, the aggressiveness of biodiesel toward non-viton soft rubber materials- an ongoing occurence. Once you upgrade your soft parts to Viton or equivalent it no longer matters whether you use Bio, ULSD or any combination of the two. Rich Cregar From skepticbill at mac.com Wed Oct 24 22:53:12 2007 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:53:12 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Source for Viton O rings and hoses In-Reply-To: <20071024.211844.4764.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Hey all, After all the back and forth on the BIG listserve (and many helpful comments) I've been poking around looking for sources for Viton O rings and hoses for my '98 E300DT. I thought I'd share this link: http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page11.html Hope this helps folks. -Bill- On 10/24/07 9:18 PM, "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net" wrote: > ULSD does not shrink seals! It only shrinks seals that have been exposed to > S500 for some time prior to exposure to ULSD! The amount of S500 in our fuel > stream has become almost negligible over the past year. > There are two different issues here: One is the shrinkage of seals saturated > in S500 after the S500 went away (a one time occurence), Two, the > aggressiveness of biodiesel toward non-viton soft rubber materials- an ongoing > occurence. Once you upgrade your soft parts to Viton or equivalent it no > longer matters whether you use Bio, ULSD or any combination of the two. > > Rich Cregar > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From bonitz at cleanenergy.org Thu Oct 25 16:58:55 2007 From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:58:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Farm Bill reported out of Ag Committee Message-ID: Friends, Farm Bill is now out of Ag Committee, soon to be presented for debate on the floor of the Senate. Amendments will be offered then. Here's an update on the Farm Bill, thanks to the good folks at Environment & Energy Study Institute (EESI) in Washington, DC. More details to follow. John Bonitz, Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate Southern Alliance for Clean Energy PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC 27312 Phone: 919-545-2920 Mobile: 919-360-2492 bonitz at cleanenergy.org Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy communities throughout the Southeast. Learn more at http://www.cleanenergy.org. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Senate Agriculture Committee Sends 2007 Farm Bill to the Floor ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On October 25, 2007, the Senate Agriculture Committee Chaired by Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) reported out The Food and Energy Security Act of 2007. This bipartisan bill comes together after months of negotiations over reforms to the farm safety net created by the 2002 Farm Bill. Under strict budgetary constraints imposed by the "pay-as-you-go" budget rules, the committee was able to include new investments in conservation, nutrition, specialty crops (fruit and vegetable) and energy production. Controversial amendments over the Average Crop Revenue program, as well as, trade distorting adjustments, food stamps and nutrition received much debate in the committee. No amendments were offered to the $1.1 billion Energy Title of the bill during markup. The bill includes several extensions to the 2002 Farm Bill Energy Title and many new energy and energy efficiency programs as well as essential feedstock development/diversification and infrastructure, harvesting and transportation programs. Programs include loan guarantees for biorefineries, biomass crop transition program, a regional biomass crop experiments (for feedstock), woody-biomass energy research and demonstration, and other biomass and renewable energy-related programs. The Senate bill is scheduled to go to floor before the end of October. Many amendments were withdrawn in committee but will be offered on the Senate floor, including an amendment by Senators Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) called the Farm, Ranch, Equity, Stewardship and Health (FRESH) Act. In July the House of Representatives passed, with a of vote 231-191 [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001iJtR2ecWbJbd45c2ky5z_cCYdtKw76KRUu0GcFxjx7816fEh li-86rh-U6T-_OuiU-GTH34sDuGZjFaXxVbxfCnkza3uqutuSEiyRzEY3X62TYgp7JWVNjcYXNc5 VsGYCO-5S8CjU6U=] The Farm, Nutrition, and Bioenergy Act of 2007 (H.R. 2419) [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001iJtR2ecWbJZcsFLG2YfQwSUbfaSuCb7jD9hrktOHFOlfZLRe a6VRaZYq3Zx1GbMr09343_ibfKFtEhpZtjrSm30a-fxDI2FnTZEhrB63aiH-Lv-jszhYXQ==]. The House and Senate will then conference their two bills later this year. Link to Senate Agriculture Committee Documents: Chairman's Mark, section-by-section and summaries. [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001iJtR2ecWbJYfMGed7sqJd6LM8QsC7lj8ssqyM1FDBmudotZB _z5TOAddNo2FPJEGNaUxKpF5uX01iWUDJ4oXsViyteVa_oMv81glQ2J80SiYCCcnbFVojibgbVwV ND2-] From backhausf at earthlink.net Thu Oct 25 17:33:10 2007 From: backhausf at earthlink.net (96ramdiesel) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:33:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives Message-ID: <18483014.1193347990534.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I use Power Service brand, it's called Diesel Fuel Supplement. It boosts the cetane by 4 points(it's like an octane rating for diesel fuel), it's an antigel, cleans injectors, extra fuel lubrication and can be used in biodiesel. You can find it in any Auto parts store and one 32 oz bottle will take care of 100 gallons. Been using this with b20 - b100 for a couple of years, filters done clog as quick and the extra cetane helps with take offs in my dodge cummings truck -----Original Message----- >From: Wendy Wenck >Sent: Oct 24, 2007 10:59 AM >To: Philip Olinger >Cc: "Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)" , "biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net" >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives > >I am thinking of using a diesel additive, on the advice of my mechanic. >We just had to replace a fuel filter that clogged (at 12K rather than >usual interval of replacing every 20K) that annoyingly left me stranded >and caused me to miss a friend's funeral. My mechanic is concerned >about the injectors, based on what he has read online and repairs he has >already done on TDIs (I was their first but am not their only customer >running on biodiesel) however he thinks that we may avoid troubles with >the injectors if I add a dose of additive at a minimum of every other >tank. They are recommending Chevron, or Justice Bros, or any other >good-quality brands. > >My car is a 2003 VW Golf TDI, and I am running on B99 most of the year. >Will start adding 20% or more dino soon when temperatures drop. My car >has just under 75K on it, I have run on bio or high blend for most of >that, and so far I have just done scheduled maintenance and replaced >three glow plugs. > >I would appreciate any recommendations on diesel additives with >biodiesel, and what your experiences have been with them. > >Thanks, >Wendy > >-- >Wendy E. Wenck >Herb Garden Curator >North Carolina Botanical Garden >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill >Campus Box 3375, Totten Center >Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3375 >(919)962-0522 >wenck at unc.edu >www.ncbg.unc.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From mweaver at misteam.net Thu Oct 25 19:48:35 2007 From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:48:35 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives In-Reply-To: <18483014.1193347990534.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18483014.1193347990534.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <47212B53.3010702@misteam.net> Annoying diesel geek remark: Actually, cetane and octane are opposites. The cetane rating is the measure of the ability of the fuel to auto ignite under compression - a positive thing in diesels, hence a high cetane rating is good. Octane is the opposite, it is a way to rate a fuel's ability to resist auto ignition under compression - a bad thing in gasoline-spark engines. Contrary to popular belief, it does not provide more power nor does it give you better mileage. It is only used is high-compression engines to prevent knocking. However, even if you dump 87 octane in your new BMW, nothing bad will happen; the computer will retard the timing to prevent knocking. You may not get all 350 HP advertised, but it won't hurt the car. Putting high-octane in your average Corolla for more power is a waste of money. -Annoying diesel geek 96ramdiesel wrote: >I use Power Service brand, it's called Diesel Fuel Supplement. It boosts the cetane by 4 points(it's like an octane rating for diesel fuel), it's an antigel, cleans injectors, extra fuel lubrication and can be used in biodiesel. You can find it in any Auto parts store and one 32 oz bottle will take care of 100 gallons. > >Been using this with b20 - b100 for a couple of years, filters done clog as quick and the extra cetane helps with take offs in my dodge cummings truck > >-----Original Message----- > > >>From: Wendy Wenck >>Sent: Oct 24, 2007 10:59 AM >>To: Philip Olinger >>Cc: "Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)" , "biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net" >>Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives >> >>I am thinking of using a diesel additive, on the advice of my mechanic. >>We just had to replace a fuel filter that clogged (at 12K rather than >>usual interval of replacing every 20K) that annoyingly left me stranded >>and caused me to miss a friend's funeral. My mechanic is concerned >>about the injectors, based on what he has read online and repairs he has >>already done on TDIs (I was their first but am not their only customer >>running on biodiesel) however he thinks that we may avoid troubles with >>the injectors if I add a dose of additive at a minimum of every other >>tank. They are recommending Chevron, or Justice Bros, or any other >>good-quality brands. >> >>My car is a 2003 VW Golf TDI, and I am running on B99 most of the year. >>Will start adding 20% or more dino soon when temperatures drop. My car >>has just under 75K on it, I have run on bio or high blend for most of >>that, and so far I have just done scheduled maintenance and replaced >>three glow plugs. >> >>I would appreciate any recommendations on diesel additives with >>biodiesel, and what your experiences have been with them. >> >>Thanks, >>Wendy >> >>-- >>Wendy E. Wenck >>Herb Garden Curator >>North Carolina Botanical Garden >>University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill >>Campus Box 3375, Totten Center >>Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3375 >>(919)962-0522 >>wenck at unc.edu >>www.ncbg.unc.edu >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Oct 25 18:29:34 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:29:34 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Source for Viton O rings and hoses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Bill for that resource! -Rachel On Oct 24, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > After all the back and forth on the BIG listserve (and many helpful > comments) I've been poking around looking for sources for Viton O > rings and > hoses for my '98 E300DT. I thought I'd share this link: > > http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page11.html > > Hope this helps folks. > > -Bill- > > > On 10/24/07 9:18 PM, "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net" > > wrote: > >> ULSD does not shrink seals! It only shrinks seals that have been >> exposed to >> S500 for some time prior to exposure to ULSD! The amount of S500 >> in our fuel >> stream has become almost negligible over the past year. >> There are two different issues here: One is the shrinkage of seals >> saturated >> in S500 after the S500 went away (a one time occurence), Two, the >> aggressiveness of biodiesel toward non-viton soft rubber >> materials- an ongoing >> occurence. Once you upgrade your soft parts to Viton or equivalent >> it no >> longer matters whether you use Bio, ULSD or any combination of the >> two. >> >> Rich Cregar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From wedmonds1 at nc.rr.com Thu Oct 25 19:42:55 2007 From: wedmonds1 at nc.rr.com (Wayne Edmonds) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:42:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Source for Viton O rings and hoses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003001c81760$c47db0d0$ccda4147@wedmondshome> Would diesel Injection of Cary carry them? -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Rachel Burton Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:30 PM To: Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) Cc: BIG Group Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Source for Viton O rings and hoses Thanks Bill for that resource! -Rachel On Oct 24, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > After all the back and forth on the BIG listserve (and many helpful > comments) I've been poking around looking for sources for Viton O > rings and > hoses for my '98 E300DT. I thought I'd share this link: > > http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page11.html > > Hope this helps folks. > > -Bill- > > > On 10/24/07 9:18 PM, "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net" > > wrote: > >> ULSD does not shrink seals! It only shrinks seals that have been >> exposed to >> S500 for some time prior to exposure to ULSD! The amount of S500 >> in our fuel >> stream has become almost negligible over the past year. >> There are two different issues here: One is the shrinkage of seals >> saturated >> in S500 after the S500 went away (a one time occurence), Two, the >> aggressiveness of biodiesel toward non-viton soft rubber >> materials- an ongoing >> occurence. Once you upgrade your soft parts to Viton or equivalent >> it no >> longer matters whether you use Bio, ULSD or any combination of the >> two. >> >> Rich Cregar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Fri Oct 26 00:01:34 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:01:34 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives Message-ID: <20071026.000134.24932.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> An even more annoying clatification: The value measured by the Cetane # in Diesel fuel is the "ignition delay" at auto-ignition temperature. Cetane has no delay, hence it is assigned a Cetane # of 100. (The perfect Diesel Fuel) Methyl-Napthalene with a very long ignition delay and a very poor Diesel fuel, has a Cetane # of 0. ULSD typically will score about 44-45, B-100 will score from 45-55 depending on feedstock. In late model (gasoline)vehicles, higher octane does in fact improve economy & power because it allows the engine management system to adopt a more aggressive ignition timing advance map. However, you are correct when you state that using 87 octane fuel in say, a 2005 Mercedes E350 will not cause any problems as the knock sensors will detect detonation and retard the timing map. But some loss of performance & economy will result. A vehicle that takes advantage of high octane is the new Saab Turbo Flex Fuel car. As I recall, Horse Power running on gasoline is about 200, but with E-85 it is about 245, thanks to the high octane # of ethanol. It allows the engine to operate with a much higher ignition advance curve. Interesting side note: Someone recently pointed out that only about 7% of gasoline sold nationally is 93 octane. I wouldn't buy it either! Rich Cregar From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri Oct 26 10:31:27 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:31:27 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] House committee OKs two energy bills Message-ID: <8DFCAF05-FC41-4E6C-8C32-16F0982EB866@blast.com> http://www.wastenews.com/headlines2.html?id=1192733468 Oct. 18 -- Two bills aimed at streamlining energy storage and efficiency have gained a nod of approval from the House Science and Technology Committee. One bill passed Oct. 16 focuses on energy-storage technologies and the other enhances industrial energy efficiency research and development. The Subcommittee on Energy and Environment advanced both bills Oct. 10. Rep. Bart Gordon, D-Tenn., who chairs the science committee, wrote what?s called the Energy Storage Technology Advancement Act of 2007. It authorizes $780 million to improve energy storage for electrical grids and hybrid- and electric-vehicle batteries. Funding would be allotted to the Energy Department between 2009 and 2014. From evan at biofuels.coop Fri Oct 26 11:06:31 2007 From: evan at biofuels.coop (Evan Ashworth) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:06:31 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] O-rings Conversation Message-ID: On Oct 25, 2007, at 1:18 AM, rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: > ULSD does not shrink seals! It only shrinks seals that have been > exposed to S500 for some time prior to exposure to ULSD! The amount > of S500 in our fuel stream has become almost negligible over the > past year. > There are two different issues here: One is the shrinkage of seals > saturated in S500 after the S500 went away (a one time occurence), > Two, the aggressiveness of biodiesel toward non-viton soft rubber > materials- an ongoing occurence. Once you upgrade your soft parts > to Viton or equivalent it no longer matters whether you use Bio, > ULSD or any combination of the two. > > Rich Cregar I feel like these materials issues are really important to the success of the alt. fuels community, so I'd like to respectfully offer another point of view. According to the Chevron technical bulletin "Fuel Leaks From Seals of Vehicles Using Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel," ULSD does shrink seals. In their words, "The change from a higher to a lower aromatics fuel can cause seals to shrink. Aged seals, which do not have the elasticity to adapt to this change, appear to fail sooner." The whole paper is posted here: http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/diesel/ documents/elastomer_chevron_tb_2005Aug.pdf Biodiesel has incredibly high lubricity, and ULSD has incredibly low lubricity, so the transition puts stress on any soft components. Viton is a champ as far as holding up to all blends of biodiesel, but I wouldn't treat it like it's completely immune. On the Wilden Chemical Resistance Guide (check out p.3 of http:// www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/ Materials_Compatibility.pdf), they tested the effects of B100 on materials and rated them on a letter grade system. A is "Minor," B is "Minor to Moderate," C is "Moderate to Severe," and D is "Don't use this, your stuff will melt in four minutes." Teflon was the only elastomer to get an A rating, Viton got a B. . .this is consistent with what we've seen on the ground working with biodiesel for the last five years. The only material we've found to be completely unaffected by B100 is teflon--our teflon lined transfer hoses have lasted for years. But in most cases teflon is too rigid for use in seals. Viton is great, and works fine for most B100 applications, but it is not completely unaffected by biodiesel-- I would be careful about repeated switches between B100 and pure ULSD. -Evan Piedmont Biofuels From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri Oct 26 11:40:34 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:40:34 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NORTH CAROLINA TO ENCOURAGE ETHANOL BLENDING IN GASOLINE References: Message-ID: > North Carolina's Department of Agriculture (NCDA) is proposing > new "looser > regulations" for ethanol blending in gasoline, with the aim to > encourage more > blending in the Southeast state, a DOA official told OPIS on Friday. > The new regulations should encourage shippers and blenders to > use more > ethanol in gasoline blending, he said. > Several RFG non-mandated states are moving quickly toward > blending more > ethanol into gasoline due to cheaper ethanol versus gasoline. > Blenders could blend up to 10% of ethanol in gasoline. > The department is currently drafting a proposal that will > include lowering > the T50 specs to 148 degrees Fahrenheit from 158 year round and > possibly > waiving the vapor liquid ratio. > The V/L ratio is a measure of the tendency of a fuel to vapor lock. > However, North Carolina may follow Tennessee's footsteps, > reducing the V/L > ratio by 10 degrees across the board. > "Some fuel suppliers in North Carolina such as Marathon and a > Hess dealer > were concerned about ethanol blending in gasoline," he said. > The reluctance was partly due to a lack of specs guarantees on fuel > shipments shipped on the pipeline. > The looser regulations could allow shippers and blenders more > room to > engage in ethanol blending in gasoline. > "We are meeting in early November for discussions, and the > proposal could > be finalized by the end of November," the official said. > The agriculture department's board will meet for discuss the > proposal in > early February, he said. > The proposal if approved by the board will be sent to the state > assembly > for a final approval, possibly in July, the official said. > "Currently, we don't have any restrictions about ethanol > blending in > gasoline," he said. "Some fuel suppliers such as Crown and Wilco > are already > doing it." > However, some other suppliers are holding back until the new > regulations > are in place as they may not be confident about meeting the state's > gasoline > quality standards, the official said. From mweaver at misteam.net Fri Oct 26 13:04:47 2007 From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:04:47 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives In-Reply-To: <20071026.000134.24932.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> References: <20071026.000134.24932.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <47221E2F.1040707@misteam.net> From-the-just-leave-it-alone Dept: Sort of. Back in my pre-biodiesel days I had a 1994 5.0 Mustang which took 87 octane gas. Putting 92 octane gas in it didn't make any difference in its perfomance or mileage. However, by manually advancing the timing and running the higher octane gas I did get a bit more power (seat of the pants dyno test). I have been in the diesel world so long I haven't really tinkered much with newer cars, but I wonder if a plain Corolla or Civic would do any better on 92 octane? I'm betting it wouldn't, unless you chipped it and changed the ECU programming. Another interesting fact, according to several studies, ethanol provides less energy than gasoline, leading to lower mileage. From NYT: NY Times Does the SAAB 9-5 beat the ethanol mileage problem? This says it gets 30% fewer mpg. That's worse than normal. Autobog gives these values. Gas 25.7mpg at 30mph, 22.9mpg at 50mph, 16.0mpg at 70mph E85 17.4mpg at 30mph, 15.8mpg at 50mph, 11.4mpg at 70mph. That averages to a 31% reduction in mileage, which is more than other cars. It doesn't adress whether it generates more horsepower, but here an article from the Des Moine Register: *Ethanol gets worse mileage than gasoline because, gallon for gallon, it has about 30 percent less energy. But ethanol does have a higher octane rating, and that can mean more horsepower.* Configuring an engine to run solely on 85 or even 100 percent ethanol would not only add horsepower, but it would be more efficient in burning ethanol, thus using less fuel and delivering more miles per gallon. That's the concept embodied in Saab's BioPower 100 Concept car. Saab, the Swedish automaker, is a division of General Motors. The BioPower 100 can use any blend of gasoline and/or ethanol, but it delivers double the horsepower - 300 hp - with the most ethanol. And it allows for a 2-liter engine compared with a 4-liter engine, reducing the vehicle's overall weight. These efficiencies result in an even further improvement in fuel economy - only half of what you would lose with a regular flex-fuel vehicle running on E85. In late model (gasoline)vehicles, higher octane does in fact improve economy & power because it allows the engine management system to adopt a more aggressive ignition timing advance map. However, you are correct when you state that using 87 octane fuel in say, a 2005 Mercedes E350 will not cause any problems as the knock sensors will detect detonation and retard the timing map. But some loss of performance & economy will result. A vehicle that takes advantage of high octane is the new Saab Turbo Flex Fuel car. As I recall, Horse Power running on gasoline is about 200, but with E-85 it is about 245, thanks to the high octane # of ethanol. It allows the engine to operate with a much higher ignition advance curve. rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: >An even more annoying clatification: > >The value measured by the Cetane # in Diesel fuel is the "ignition delay" at auto-ignition temperature. Cetane has no delay, hence it is assigned a Cetane # of 100. (The perfect Diesel Fuel) Methyl-Napthalene with a very long ignition delay and a very poor Diesel fuel, has a Cetane # of 0. ULSD typically will score about 44-45, B-100 will score from 45-55 depending on feedstock. > >In late model (gasoline)vehicles, higher octane does in fact improve economy & power because it allows the engine management system to adopt a more aggressive ignition timing advance map. However, you are correct when you state that using 87 octane fuel in say, a 2005 Mercedes E350 will not cause any problems as the knock sensors will detect detonation and retard the timing map. But some loss of performance & economy will result. A vehicle that takes advantage of high octane is the new Saab Turbo Flex Fuel car. As I recall, Horse Power running on gasoline is about 200, but with E-85 it is about 245, thanks to the high octane # of ethanol. It allows the engine to operate with a much higher ignition advance curve. > >Interesting side note: Someone recently pointed out that only about 7% of gasoline sold nationally is 93 octane. I wouldn't buy it either! > >Rich Cregar > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From francismiller at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 12:22:57 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:22:57 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives In-Reply-To: <47221E2F.1040707@misteam.net> References: <20071026.000134.24932.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> <47221E2F.1040707@misteam.net> Message-ID: <47221461.7040507@comcast.net> With regards to diesel additives: Has anyone had experience with or knowledge of the use of xylene as an additive. There is a product BG 44K, which I use and my impression is that it is mainly xylene. I have used xylene and it seems to clean the injectors, reduce particulates and gelling. Fran Miller, Parker, CO From francismiller at comcast.net Fri Oct 26 12:24:01 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:24:01 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel additives Message-ID: <472214A1.3080005@comcast.net> With regards to diesel additives: Has anyone had experience with or knowledge of the use of xylene as an additive. There is a product BG 44K, which I use and my impression is that it is mainly xylene. I have used xylene and it seems to clean the injectors, reduce particulates and gelling. Fran Miller, Parker, CO From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Fri Oct 26 13:40:13 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:40:13 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] O-rings Conversation Message-ID: <20071026.134013.5186.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Evan: I agree with all you say. In fact the Chevron article validates my comments about ULSD, but my point is that no bio diesel driver should hesitate taking an extended trip in their bio diesel vehicle because of fueling concerns. In fact, unless the trip is an extended cross country vacation or some such, a significant percentage of the fuel in the vehicle will remain a bio diesel mixture due to dilution. This seemed to be a concern for some and I hope you will agree with this assessment and put this to rest. Rich Cregar From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Fri Oct 26 13:48:33 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:48:33 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives Message-ID: <20071026.134833.5186.2@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Hi Fran I have sold and used the BG formulation for 25 years or so and agree with your assesment. Rich Cregar From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Fri Oct 26 13:55:12 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:55:12 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] diesel additives Message-ID: <20071026.135512.5186.3@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Hi Mike Thanks for the additional information. Yes, ethanol has less energy than gasoline. this is why Flex Fuel vehicles have bigger gas tanks--- so the driving range between fill ups is not affected. From info at theforestfoundation.org Fri Oct 26 14:26:47 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (info at theforestfoundation.org) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage In-Reply-To: <20071026.000134.24932.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> References: <20071026.000134.24932.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <13674.69.38.75.34.1193423207.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Anyone interested in trying this here in the Triangle? http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html From ajmcma23 at cccc.edu Fri Oct 26 13:54:26 2007 From: ajmcma23 at cccc.edu (Andrew McMahan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:54:26 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Central Carolina Community College Does It Again! Message-ID: <4721F18A.C1BF.0043.0@cccc.edu> CCCC Selected to Offer Biofuels Degree Program PITTSBORO: In North Carolina, biofuels education has a simple formula: CCCC. That stands for Central Carolina Community College, a state leader in training workers for the burgeoning biofuels industry. At its September 2007 meeting, the North Carolina Community College Systems Board of Trustees acknowledged this leadership by granting the college the distinction of becoming the first in the state to offer a biofuels associate degree program. The two-year program, Alternative Energy Technology: Biofuels, and related certificate programs will provide the biofuels industry with workforce development and training. The degree program starts in fall 2008. The N.C. Strategic Plan for Biofuels Leadership has identified workforce development as a key factor in growing the industry. To accomplish this, the college has worked closely with industry and will work closely with the newly formed North Carolina Biofuels Center to determine workforce-training needs. New courses have been created for the Alternative Energy Technology: Biofuels degree curriculum, including biofuels analytics, biofuels waste management, and renewable energy technology. As part of the interdisciplinary approach, students will also take courses in chemistry, electrical control systems, welding, bioprocessing practices, and small business development. Biofuels degree graduates will qualify for numerous positions within the industry. Employment opportunities include, but are not limited to, plant technician, plant manager, lab technician, sales manager, process coordinator, or business owner. The college?s Chatham County Campus in Pittsboro has been offering biofuels classes since 2002. The program has grown each year with strong support from numerous state agencies and industry. Since 2004, the college has received more than $300,000 in grants to expand its biofuels curriculum. Most recently, the Community College System?s BioNetwork awarded CCCC two grants totaling more than $140,000. These grants will help fund the expansion of biofuels courses for the degree program as well as non-curricular biofuels education for the public. Biofuels will be housed in a new $3.8 million, 18,000-square-foot Sustainable Technologies Classroom and Lab Building on the Chatham Campus. Ground has been broken, and the facility is scheduled for completion by fall 2009. The new biofuels lab will facilitate training of students with analytical and production methods and equipment used in both biodiesel and ethanol production, including a seed crusher, small-scale biodiesel reactor, and ethanol production facility. The building itself will be green, built to the U.S. Green Building Council?s Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) silver standards. Included in the design, by Cherry Huffman Associates, is the utilization of fuel production byproducts for heat. To learn more about CCCC?s biofuels degree program, contact Andrew McMahan, the college?s biofuels coordinator, at (919) 542-6495, ext. 214, or by email at amcmahan at cccc.edu , or visit the college?s website at www.cccc.edu/biofuels/ . From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri Oct 26 17:23:06 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:23:06 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Rohm And Haas Awarded Grant To Demonstrate New Catalyst Technology For Biodiesel Production Message-ID: <768E7F22-02DF-44F9-AEFD-A6B12A7E9642@blast.com> Rohm and Haas ? $752,000 to demonstrate a newly developed polymeric catalyst technology that produces biodiesel from low-quality feed stocks, including crude soybean oil, rendered animal fats, waste vegetable oil and yellow grease. This technology will expand the field of available feedstocks, giving biodiesel producers greater flexibility and leading to increased volumes. The pilot scale facility will be mobile and made available for trial at other established biodiesel production facilities in Pennsylvania. http://www.ahs.dep.state.pa.us/NewsReleases/Default.asp?ID=4794 From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri Oct 26 17:26:26 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:26:26 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] New biodiesel plant increases need for canola in North Dakota Message-ID: <4510EDFE-BC02-4E25-AFD6-9AC3B94126C1@blast.com> Demand for North Dakota's yellow-flowering canola crop has just jumped by about 1-1.5 million acres a year as the new Archer Daniels Midland Company biodiesel plant east of Velva in north central North Dakota begins churning out clean-burning fuel. Officials said the plant has a permit to make 85 million gallons of biodiesel per year using 750,000 metric tons of canola oil. Approximately 2.7 gallons of biodiesel can be made from one bushel of canola. Located on the site of ADM's canola crushing facility, canola seed will either be crushed for vegetable oil, or the oil will be made into high-quality biodiesel. Read more here- http://www.farmandranchguide.com/articles/2007/10/26/ag_news/ regional_news/news11.txt From shipyardphil at yahoo.com Sat Oct 27 09:31:38 2007 From: shipyardphil at yahoo.com (Phil Carter) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage Message-ID: <876614.60765.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I would love to try it! I am in Colorado though..... If anyone does add cng to their diesel ... please show and tell... good luck on all the inventive projects, Phil ----- Original Message ---- From: "info at theforestfoundation.org" To: "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net" Cc: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:26:47 PM Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage Anyone interested in trying this here in the Triangle? http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From shiftlink at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 10:03:41 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:03:41 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage In-Reply-To: <876614.60765.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <876614.60765.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0710270703l1226ef2w842c1bb82aefb297@mail.gmail.com> Awesome article! Thanks for sharing it! Man I'd love to put a tank of CNG in the back of my pick up truck! > > > Anyone interested in trying this here in the Triangle? > > http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From info at theforestfoundation.org Sat Oct 27 14:37:38 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (info at theforestfoundation.org) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0710270703l1226ef2w842c1bb82aefb297@mail.gmail.com> References: <876614.60765.qm@web50804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4c758e6d0710270703l1226ef2w842c1bb82aefb297@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <33418.69.38.75.34.1193510258.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> vaporized ethanol may be safer, but unsure of the "bang for the buck," so to speak. > Awesome article! Thanks for sharing it! Man I'd love to put a tank > of CNG in the back of my pick up truck! >> >> >> Anyone interested in trying this here in the Triangle? >> >> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From info at theforestfoundation.org Sat Oct 27 14:42:10 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (info at theforestfoundation.org) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage In-Reply-To: <8C9E61EA2DC91CC-70C-56CA@FWM-M28.sysops.aol.com> References: <20071026.000134.24932.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> <13674.69.38.75.34.1193423207.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> <8C9E61EA2DC91CC-70C-56CA@FWM-M28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <33458.69.38.75.34.1193510530.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Maybe we can get this guy or one of his compatriots to come and give a seminar with CCCC, Durham and Wake Tech. Cost? Funding? > ME!!! ME!!!!!? We drive our sweet old 86 suburban diesel to S. Carolina at > least 3 times a month hauling pigs to the processor and I would LOVE to > increase our mileage and decrease our emissions!? How do I get a > conversion kit???? > > > Anita Olinga > Sofia's Farm > Groovy Little Bonlee Store > 28 Bonlee Bennett Road on the mall in Bonlee > 919-837-0220 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: info at theforestfoundation.org > To: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net > Cc: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net > Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:26 pm > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to > increase HP and mileage > > > > Anyone interested in trying this here in the Triangle? > > http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > From tes at unc.edu Sat Oct 27 15:13:14 2007 From: tes at unc.edu (tes thraves) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:13:14 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage In-Reply-To: <33458.69.38.75.34.1193510530.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Message-ID: I would take it! tes On 10/27/07 2:42 PM, "info at theforestfoundation.org" wrote: > Maybe we can get this guy or one of his compatriots to come and give a > seminar with CCCC, Durham and Wake Tech. > > Cost? Funding? > > >> ME!!! ME!!!!!? We drive our sweet old 86 suburban diesel to S. Carolina at >> least 3 times a month hauling pigs to the processor and I would LOVE to >> increase our mileage and decrease our emissions!? How do I get a >> conversion kit???? >> >> >> Anita Olinga >> Sofia's Farm >> Groovy Little Bonlee Store >> 28 Bonlee Bennett Road on the mall in Bonlee >> 919-837-0220 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: info at theforestfoundation.org >> To: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net >> Cc: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net >> Sent: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 2:26 pm >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to >> increase HP and mileage >> >> >> >> Anyone interested in trying this here in the Triangle? >> >> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - >> http://mail.aol.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ________________________ tessa eliza thraves Doctoral Candidate Communication Studies Department Performance, Pedagogy and Critical Ethnography and Curriculum in Folklore Environmental Cultural Studies University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill tes at unc.edu or tes at biofuels.coop home phone: 919.542.9999 cell: 919.619.8897 >> >> We must use time creatively . . . And forever realize that the time is always >> ripe to do right. >> Martin Luther >> King Jr. >> From kcfoxie at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 20:19:24 2007 From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:19:24 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel hybrids using gas boosts to increase HP and mileage In-Reply-To: References: <33458.69.38.75.34.1193510530.squirrel@mail.npsis.com> Message-ID: <1bb86e040710271719p192f4be9kf073c6af5792a75f@mail.gmail.com> I have been talking with ApexTuning out of Raleigh about possibly experimenting with this in a TDI Swap project. I don't know how far it will go, but I am highly interested to see if we can pull the same type of results (or better) out of a VW diesel engine. He was using Duramax engines. From skepticbill at mac.com Sun Oct 28 11:06:10 2007 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:06:10 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate Message-ID: Hey all, Now that I have a good grip on my ULSD/bio related O ring issue (thanks!) I thought I'd post something with a little broader scope. I believe that there will be a growing discussion on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate and we, as members of the biofuels community, need to think about how best to respond. Obviously using algae based biofuels, waste oils, or cellulosic stock is a great way to negate the argument that we are starving folks to power our cars. But we aren't there yet so I thought I'd post an interesting take on the morality of biofuels I read in another listserve I subscribe to. ---------------post below----------------- Faulty logic on biofuels from UN official Posted by: "Lan Barnes" lan at falleagle.net ? lanbarnes Sat Oct?27,?2007 10:41?am (PST) Forwarded from Salon wire stories as an example of the thinking out there. My criticisms are below. ************************** UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output By EDITH M. LEDERER Associated Press Writer Oct 26th, 2007 | UNITED NATIONS -- A U.N. expert on Friday called the growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against humanity," saying it is creating food shortages and price jumps that cause millions of poor people to go hungry. Jean Ziegler, who has been the United Nations' independent expert on the right to food since the position was established in 2000, called for a five-year moratorium on biofuel production to halt what he called a growing "catastrophe" for the poor. Scientific research is progressing very quickly, he said, "and in five years it will be possible to make biofuel and biodiesel from agricultural waste" rather than wheat, corn, sugar cane and other food crops. Using biofuel instead of gasoline in cars is generally considered to cut carbon dioxide emissions, which contribute to global warming ? although some scientists say greenhouse gases released during the production of biofuel could offset those gains. The use of crops for biofuel has being pursued especially in Brazil and the United States. Last March, President Bush and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva signed an agreement committing their countries to boosting ethanol production. They said increasing use of alternative fuels would lead to more jobs, a cleaner environment and greater independence from the whims of the oil market. Ziegler called their motives legitimate, but said that "the effect of transforming hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tons of maize, of wheat, of beans, of palm oil, into agricultural fuel is absolutely catastrophic for the hungry people." The world price of wheat doubled in one year and the price of corn quadrupled, leaving poor countries, especially in Africa, unable to pay for the imported food needed to feed their people, he said. And poor people in those countries are unable to pay the soaring prices for the food that does come in, he added. "So it's a crime against humanity" to devote agricultural land to biofuel production, Ziegler said a news conference. "What has to be stopped is ... the growing catastrophe of the massacre (by) hunger in the world," he said. As an example, he said, it takes 510 pounds of corn to produce 13 gallons of ethanol. That much corn could feed a child in Zambia or Mexico for a year, he said. Ziegler, a sociology professor at the University of Geneva and the University of the Sorbonne in Paris, presented a report Thursday to the U.N. General Assembly's human rights committee saying a five-year moratorium on biofuel production would allow time for new technologies for using agricultural byproducts instead of food itself. Researchers are looking at crop residues such as corn cobs, rice husks and banana leaves, he said. "The cultivation of Jatropha Curcas, a shrub that produces large oil-bearing seeds, appears to offer a good solution as it can be grown in arid lands that are not normally suitable for food crops," he said. ******************************** OK, let's start with some of the twinkie-winkie economics this guy espouses. If he truly believes that the doubling of the price of flour in Africa (flour?! what does flour have to do with biofuels?) is because soy oil is being used to make Willie Nelson BD in the southwest, he's beyond nuts. If imported food prices are rising in Africa or anywhere else, the most likely cause is the incredible rise in cost of petro fuels (Iraq debacle, increased worldwide demand, corporatist greed, etc) needed to transport the food to Africa. Next error: I haven't checked the futures markets in soy recently, but historically soy oil and soy meal (the by product) are reciprocals, with one being price driven and the other being dumped. So if soy oil is being driven up because of (shortsighted) government mandates and tax breaks, livestock feed is being driven down, and locally in the US (and all markets start locally), this should depress or hold level meat prices. You give a little on one hand and get a little on the other. (But it would still be better to give tax breaks to oil crops coming from marginal and uncultivated lands.) Likewise, if ethanol from corn (another boondoggle in IMHO) is driving corn prices up in the US, this should _help_ the Mexican farmers, who are getting screwed by the false "free trade" of NAFTA ... and Mexico is close enough to the US to actually be part of our larger market, unlike Africa. I will repeat (partly because I know it pisses some people off ;) my position that biofuels do absolutely nothing to address the CO2 problem, because they're a drop in the bucket; the vehicles still release the same amount of CO2; and while biofuels rise minutely, fossil fuel use is STILL rising rapidly. So the CO2 from BD, switch grass, and EtOH just add to the growing problem. What IS important about biofuels and BD in particular is the example it sets for the world of grass roots empowerment. When Willie Nelson and Darryl Hannah step up and say "this is important"; when our own Girl Mark and the thousands of home brewers she has instructed and inspired grab the mindspace of Joe Sixpack; then THAT is what shames governments into their usually wrongheaded, corporatist half measures, and THAT is what makes the climate crisis and greenhouse gasses the subject of dinner table conversation throughout the country. And, damn, that's an important contribution. Keep on brewing, guys, you're changing the world. - From shiftlink at gmail.com Sun Oct 28 11:13:14 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:13:14 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c758e6d0710280913g3422749eg9a2d592c55473bc9@mail.gmail.com> There are lots of subsidies on farming that are screwing up the free market process in this country. There are huge Tariffs on foreign sugar, we are growing cotton when there is a surplus of cotton in the world, we are growing tobacco when it is a deadly drug. I think the biggest problem in this issue is our Government. They are working hard to slow the pace of the diversification of energy in this country, while trying to appear as if they are "progressive". Simplify things and let the market actually influence production, and I think a lot of these concerns will reveal themselves as red herrings. On 10/28/07, Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac) wrote: > Hey all, > > Now that I have a good grip on my ULSD/bio related O ring issue (thanks!) I > thought I'd post something with a little broader scope. I believe that there > will be a growing discussion on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate and we, as > members of the biofuels community, need to think about how best to respond. > Obviously using algae based biofuels, waste oils, or cellulosic stock is a > great way to negate the argument that we are starving folks to power our > cars. But we aren't there yet so I thought I'd post an interesting take on > the morality of biofuels I read in another listserve I subscribe to. > > ---------------post below----------------- > > Faulty logic on biofuels from UN official > Posted by: "Lan Barnes" lan at falleagle.net lanbarnes > Sat Oct27,2007 10:41am (PST) > Forwarded from Salon wire stories as an example of the thinking out there. > My criticisms are below. > > ************************** > > UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output > By EDITH M. LEDERER Associated Press Writer > > Oct 26th, 2007 | UNITED NATIONS -- A U.N. expert on Friday called the > growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against > humanity," saying it is creating food shortages and price jumps that cause > millions of poor people to go hungry. > > Jean Ziegler, who has been the United Nations' independent expert on the > right to food since the position was established in 2000, called for a > five-year moratorium on biofuel production to halt what he called a > growing "catastrophe" for the poor. > > Scientific research is progressing very quickly, he said, "and in five > years it will be possible to make biofuel and biodiesel from agricultural > waste" rather than wheat, corn, sugar cane and other food crops. > > Using biofuel instead of gasoline in cars is generally considered to cut > carbon dioxide emissions, which contribute to global warming ? although > some scientists say greenhouse gases released during the production of > biofuel could offset those gains. > > The use of crops for biofuel has being pursued especially in Brazil and > the United States. > > Last March, President Bush and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da > Silva signed an agreement committing their countries to boosting ethanol > production. They said increasing use of alternative fuels would lead to > more jobs, a cleaner environment and greater independence from the whims > of the oil market. > > Ziegler called their motives legitimate, but said that "the effect of > transforming hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tons of maize, of > wheat, of beans, of palm oil, into agricultural fuel is absolutely > catastrophic for the hungry people." > > The world price of wheat doubled in one year and the price of corn > quadrupled, leaving poor countries, especially in Africa, unable to pay > for the imported food needed to feed their people, he said. And poor > people in those countries are unable to pay the soaring prices for the > food that does come in, he added. > > "So it's a crime against humanity" to devote agricultural land to biofuel > production, Ziegler said a news conference. "What has to be stopped is ... > the growing catastrophe of the massacre (by) hunger in the world," he > said. > > As an example, he said, it takes 510 pounds of corn to produce 13 gallons > of ethanol. That much corn could feed a child in Zambia or Mexico for a > year, he said. > > Ziegler, a sociology professor at the University of Geneva and the > University of the Sorbonne in Paris, presented a report Thursday to the > U.N. General Assembly's human rights committee saying a five-year > moratorium on biofuel production would allow time for new technologies for > using agricultural byproducts instead of food itself. > > Researchers are looking at crop residues such as corn cobs, rice husks and > banana leaves, he said. "The cultivation of Jatropha Curcas, a shrub that > produces large oil-bearing seeds, appears to offer a good solution as it > can be grown in arid lands that are not normally suitable for food crops," > he said. > > ******************************** > > OK, let's start with some of the twinkie-winkie economics this guy > espouses. If he truly believes that the doubling of the price of flour in > Africa (flour?! what does flour have to do with biofuels?) is because soy > oil is being used to make Willie Nelson BD in the southwest, he's beyond > nuts. If imported food prices are rising in Africa or anywhere else, the > most likely cause is the incredible rise in cost of petro fuels (Iraq > debacle, increased worldwide demand, corporatist greed, etc) needed to > transport the food to Africa. > > Next error: I haven't checked the futures markets in soy recently, but > historically soy oil and soy meal (the by product) are reciprocals, with > one being price driven and the other being dumped. So if soy oil is being > driven up because of (shortsighted) government mandates and tax breaks, > livestock feed is being driven down, and locally in the US (and all > markets start locally), this should depress or hold level meat prices. You > give a little on one hand and get a little on the other. (But it would > still be better to give tax breaks to oil crops coming from marginal and > uncultivated lands.) > > Likewise, if ethanol from corn (another boondoggle in IMHO) is driving > corn prices up in the US, this should _help_ the Mexican farmers, who are > getting screwed by the false "free trade" of NAFTA ... and Mexico is close > enough to the US to actually be part of our larger market, unlike Africa. > > I will repeat (partly because I know it pisses some people off ;) my > position that biofuels do absolutely nothing to address the CO2 problem, > because they're a drop in the bucket; the vehicles still release the same > amount of CO2; and while biofuels rise minutely, fossil fuel use is STILL > rising rapidly. So the CO2 from BD, switch grass, and EtOH just add to the > growing problem. > > What IS important about biofuels and BD in particular is the example it > sets for the world of grass roots empowerment. When Willie Nelson and > Darryl Hannah step up and say "this is important"; when our own Girl Mark > and the thousands of home brewers she has instructed and inspired grab the > mindspace of Joe Sixpack; then THAT is what shames governments into their > usually wrongheaded, corporatist half measures, and THAT is what makes the > climate crisis and greenhouse gasses the subject of dinner table > conversation throughout the country. And, damn, that's an important > contribution. > > Keep on brewing, guys, you're changing the world. > > - > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From tes at unc.edu Sun Oct 28 11:49:48 2007 From: tes at unc.edu (tes thraves) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:49:48 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I completely and totally buy what you have here in your conclusion, but your first few paragraphs on farming aspects miss on how ag chains work so some of your rational there just doesn't fly in my head. And I don't buy that this is all simply red herrings, as suggested in reply to you, as current *consumer* prices on cornmeal in Mexico can illustrate, and sugar cane production has been a nightmare crop throughout its *entire* history, so why would we go there, and that's just two examples for starters. . . . Still, the combination of the problems in Ag and your grassroots point together reveal the core problems: the production practices in big-ag, corporate greed and disinterest in sustainable practices, and governmental manipulation on numerous levels. I tend to think that Piedmont Biofuels co-op and Industrial, Grrl Mark, and homebrewers are changing the world because of their wisdom in process and scale, not just because they are making biodiesel accessible. PB puts systems in place and people in control, not just product on the market. They and the others working on these small scales (individual and corporate) encourage consciousness, about what you put in your auto, what you put in your mouth, etc and *how* you get it there. . . . When we, at large, start looking at systemic issues, beyond products, we can feed the hungry (as we have been *capable* of doing for decades now and yet still have not--big ag, greed, gov.) AND shift energy sources to sustainable ones. That is the good point of Ziegler's release--though wrongheaded perhaps in some areas and even damaging (certainly a moratorium seems ludicrous) in others--he is asking us to think through the whole chain. So simply, in response to Ziegler-type arguments on food verses fuel, I tend to turn the discussion to production and corporate practices. I mean, I also personally am far from convinced that ethanol is of any worth and have issues with lots of feedstock options for biodiesel, but still, the *main* issues are in *how* despite the what. tes On 10/28/07 12:06 PM, "Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)" wrote: > What IS important about biofuels and BD in particular is the example it > sets for the world of grass roots empowerment. When Willie Nelson and > Darryl Hannah step up and say "this is important"; when our own Girl Mark > and the thousands of home brewers she has instructed and inspired grab the > mindspace of Joe Sixpack; then THAT is what shames governments into their > usually wrongheaded, corporatist half measures, and THAT is what makes the > climate crisis and greenhouse gasses the subject of dinner table > conversation throughout the country. And, damn, that's an important > contribution. > > Keep on brewing, guys, you're changing the world. From john.bonitz at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 08:36:17 2007 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:36:17 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 240D for sale Message-ID: <84a57a420710290636w5740a0e3y61d6cb7039a5cc49@mail.gmail.com> 1982 240D for sale, please contact owner directly. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John, Here is some information on the Mercedes that I mentioned at Chatham Marketplace. I appreciate your help. Greg Carter and Sherry Yarkosky For Sale: 1982 Mercedes 240-D diesel ? Currently runs, but will soon need a new engine: burning oil at the rate of 1 quart every 100 miles or so. ? Only 160,000 miles. ? I am 3rd generation owner: my grandparents bought it, my mom then drove it for several years, and I bought it to make a grease-car but never did. ? The body and interior are in excellent condition. ? Price negotiable and open to bartering. OR: Wanted: Engine for 1982 Mercedes 240-D diesel. If you're interested in either of these, email aliasgregcarter at mac.com From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com Mon Oct 29 12:01:55 2007 From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:01:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate Message-ID: <1193677315.20085.1218421065@webmail.messagingengine.com> Well, the price of corn has gone up from something like $1.40 to $3.50 per bushel, but that's in the U.S.; since much of that corn is genetically modified, I would think that it wouldn't affect the price of corn in Africa (for instance) as much because of their concerns with GMOs (but I'm not an economist) and I'm not even aware of any industrial ethanol production being done in Africa. Anyway, I have a question: once we "switch over" from grains to agricultural byproducts (for ethanol, in this case), won't we be having problems with the genetically modified yeasts that are being created to ferment these byproducts? The "episode" in Oregon (where the "killer yeast" that turns all plant life -- well, their root systems -- into alcohol was created) comes to mind... -- Steve J. Rankin sjhr2000 at mailcan.com From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Mon Oct 29 13:06:48 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:06:48 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Fo od" debate Message-ID: <20071029.140648.6124.1@webmail17.dca.untd.com> An excellent question that I asked at a Bio fuels conference. Answer from the Ag experts at WV State U. is "not to worry" and that we have been modifying plant genetics for decades, sometimes unkowningly, and nothing bad has happened. Nature adapts. I still worry and think that we all should worry. Safeguards are needed. -Rich Cregar From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Mon Oct 29 16:03:13 2007 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:03:13 -0700 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Last call: Biodiesel equipment party and workshop in Seminary, Mississippi, (Hattiesburg area) Nov 2-4 Message-ID: <47264A91.4090002@localb100.com> I have a workshop coming up in Mississippi at Will Aultman's place in Seminary (near Hattiesburg), on November 3-4. Because we're gluttons for punishment, we're also setting up a big pre-workshop equipment build and barbeque, which involves breaking out the welders and modifying things more heavily than my usual 'bolt together an Appleseed' workshop gets to do. That equipment build starts on Friday, and might continue on Saturday night in a less-formal setting. I am extending the deadline for ordering parts for the equipment build, to Wednesday, Oct 31. If you want to build any of this stuff, please contact me by email: classregistration at girlmark.com . There is camping available at this class for those coming from further away. It should be a lot of fun. info about the basic workshop: Biodiesel Essentials To sign up, please see the link at: http://www.girlmark.com/tour Note: I'm traveling at the moment, not online much, and the class is nearly full. When the class fills up, I'll remove the registration link from the above web site. Until then, you may register online without having to check with me first (as some people seem to be doing unnecessarily). If the Paypal link is there, there's space, after it's gone there'll be a note saying there isn't space and we'll start a waiting list. If you miss the Mississippi class, there's one 6 hours away in Tennessee the following weekend. See my web page for registration info. The Tennessee class will not have the 'advanced equipment build' this time around, though you can build just an Appleseed biodiesel processor in class to get you started. 10-5 each day, a bit longer than my usual workshops $120 hosted by Will Aultman of Mississippi Biofuels Group, www.msbiofuels.com This class teaches you everything you need to know to make high quality biodiesel, use your system more efficiently, and make informed decisions about shortcuts. This class is a bit more advanced/faster paced than my usual classes. We'll do a lot of hands-on lab work with small-scale batches, and I'll have a processor on a trailer with some full-scale processes in progress. Extras: I will have an Amberlite column, an improved Appleseed with a venturi-based methoxide addition and possibly an eductor, static mixers, hydronic heating system, and some other equipment changes in place on the processor by then. We'll discuss some cheaper alternatives to some of this new equipment, and process alternatives that compensate. We'll use my motorized methoxide mixer for the large-scale batch. Tour a variac-based methanol recovery system, discuss vacuum pumps, discuss other methanol recovery and dewatering oil alternatives, see a Turk Burner in action and discuss what to do with it to use it safely, and more. We'll even run a lab batch of acid-base biodiesel and discuss how to apply it to an Appleseed. ************************** optional: pre-class equipment build fest on Friday night: time to be announced (email msbiofuels at msbiofuels.com for exact start time, social starts in late afternoon probably) $ by donation BYOB and potluck barbeque offerings encouraged We're also having a Friday-evening equipment build and barbeque. Will, our host, is also threatening to find a caterer friend to serve catfish at the Friday night event. We'll ask donations for the food costs, or you can bring some potluck dishes and BYOB. Friday night: Most likely we'll build Will a Turk Burner, fire up mine, and play with some of my 'unusual' equipment. However, if you wish, you too could build yourself an Appleseed processor or some of the following if you're willing to buy parts. Deadline for parts orders is Wednesday Oct 31: options: Appleseed processor, contact me for details on where the parts are coming from (probably b100supply, possibly the hardware store instead. You supply new or used electric water heater) -tube-in-shell condensor for methanol recovery, made of copper pipe similar to a Plumbers Delight. Should cost under $100, I don't know the exact costs yet. (see end of message for costs contact email) -possibly some other kind of condensor if I can get the parts list together (a copper coil in PVC type of system, a bit easier to build, possibly cheaper) -improved steel wash tank with extra ports welded on for sampling and heating- buy a b100supply wash tank kit and we'll add some extra stuff to it (about $40 in valves) so as to make your wash tank more efficient and continuous-wash-ready, or heatable (about another $25 in parts). -air-powered motorized methanol/lye mixer: you'll need a 10-30 gallon STEEL drum for this, or anther mild steel container with a removable lid ( a 30 gallon open-head drum with removable lid will work). The parts will cost something like $100 (I still have to price out the machining work necessary), and the result is a motorized methanol/lye mixer powered by an air drill and a propeller stirrer, with vapors kept locked inside the container. if anyone has machine shop access and can cut a few adaptors for us, please let me know. -alternate methanol/lye mixer: hand-cranked mixer that uses a pump to agitate the KOH. (This is useful for those without access to an air compressor) Parts: a few valves and steel drum, and a hand-cranked barrel pump. Parts cost is about the same as the air-powered unit above because the 'safe' hand cranked pump we're using costs about $75 alone (plus fittings/valves), although the unit is easier to build and doesn't require a machine shop. The pump has the advantage of being a methanol dispenser as well (ie the pump stays in your methanol barrel, not with the mixer unit). This mixer is essentially a bottom-up version of what the Fuelmeister tried to accomplish- the methanol is crank-pumped through the pile of KOH on the bottom of the mixer. The drawback is that it's much slower than mixing with the air-powered mixer. The advantage is that you may need a dispenser pump anyway if you're buying your methanol by the barrel and not by the carboy. This system also keeps vapors locked inside. Both methanol/lye mixers can use 10-55 gallon drums as a 'base' container. The pump-cranked system can use an old air compressor tank or other mild steel container (if any of you can weld stainless then we can use beer kegs also, I don't have the capability with me to work on stainless). Turk Burner demonstration: this is more of a fun/not quite stand-alone piece of gear for generating a lot of energy for dewatering oil or other ways to use heat (it burns glycerine). I'll have mine to look at- we wont build more of them on Saturday as they're not quite optimized for safe homebrewing. I know some of you will get ideas on things to do with them at home (heat water, heat oil, etc). They work best with a hydronic system and indirect heat, to minimize the dangers. To participate in the equipment build, you don't have to actually build your own. Please feel free to bring tools and expertise and suggestions and even bring examples of your own inventions to share. To buy parts for the optional equipment, please see this list: -condensor: 3/4" by 1" pipe copper 'plumbers delight' style condensor, 4' long, about $100 or less. It's possible that Rick of b100supply.com will have a kit for a simpler condensor by then. -methanol/lye mixer: you need to acquire a drum for use as a mixer. for the air-powered motorized mixer it needs to be open-head but fully sealable- such as a small 10-gallon KOH drum or a Jiffy Lube type 15-gallon lube oil drum (with seal still intact and re-sealable). For the hand-crank-pump mixer the container can be completely closed-head, such as an closed-head 10, 15 30, or 55 gallon drum, or an old air compressor tank big enough to hold your methanol (remove all old compressor motor/fittings), or a 15-gallon beer keg if you can get someone to weld fittings onto it (ask me which ones), or a clean propane tank if you really know what you're doing when it comes to used propane tanks. in addition to the containers, you'll need to order parts through me- about $100 for either mixer gets you: mixer A: -air drill to act as a mixer motor -high-pressure bearing -mixer shaft and coupling -custom-made adaptor for bearing-to-shaft sealing -miscellaneous valves and brackets mixer B (easier to build): -alcohol-proof pump (actually proven to be alcohol-proof, not one of those Northern Tool ryton leakers) -miscellaneous fittings welded onto your drum or closed-head container you'll also need some thick jumper cables or other wire to act as a safety ground for this unit when you install it at home, and as much hose as necessary to fill the unit from your methanol drum and vent it safely. Improved steel wash tank with heater, continuous-wash overflow preventer, and thermostat: -get a b100supply.com wash tank kit -send me $65 for heating element, thermostat, electrical boxes, electrical cable, interconnecting fittings, and extra valves for optimized wash tank use -I'll also have bubblewash aerator parts for sale at the event, they'll be something like $5-7 each depending on actual costs at the store Anyone who has welding experience and a portable welder that can handle thin material, please let me know, we may be able to run more than one machine simultaneously if you can help do the welding. It might be nice to set up a basic 'how MIG works' (or torch for that matter) practice station for those new to the process as well, if we have extra welding helmets or other safety gear to bring for newcomers to the process. For any of these steel barrels, if you can drop them off at Will's farm earlier than Friday afternoon, I can get started cutting holes in it and the process will be more efficient. For getting parts orders to me: -deadline Thursday, Oct 25 -email me at classregistration at girlmark.com for updates on pricing- above prices are estimates, I'll know more details within a few days of this post. -you have to acquire and transport the barrels/containers for your system -you can also buy a b100supply Appleseed kit or deluxe kit, and come assemble it in the build. -for the more complicated welded systems (methoxide mixers) I'd prefer to meet you earlier in the afternoon to get started. For the condensor, Appleseed processors, or wash tanks, we can zip them out in the evening and possibly carry over to finish up on Saturday after the class. To register for the class, please see www.girlmark.com/tour To get more directions/camping info/what food to bring sort of info about the Friday event alone, please email Will at msbiofuels at msbiofuels.com To discuss getting equipment parts, please email me at classregistration at girlmark.com From mackin at email.unc.edu Mon Oct 29 18:31:28 2007 From: mackin at email.unc.edu (Will Mackin) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:31:28 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate In-Reply-To: <1193677315.20085.1218421065@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1193677315.20085.1218421065@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: I don't have a citation for this, but my impression of the cellulosic process is as follows; Mass produce an enzyme with transgenic bacteria. Purify that enzyme, as is done for any amino acid supplement, many other products. The enzyme is used to break the cellulose into digestible sugars. The sugars are fermented with yeast. If that's the process, it should not be a problem ethically, at least for me. On Oct 29, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Steve Rankin wrote: > Well, the price of corn has gone up from something like $1.40 to $3.50 > per bushel, but that's in the U.S.; since much of that corn is > genetically modified, I would think that it wouldn't affect the price > of > corn in Africa (for instance) as much because of their concerns with > GMOs (but I'm not an economist) and I'm not even aware of any > industrial > ethanol production being done in Africa. > > Anyway, I have a question: once we "switch over" from grains to > agricultural byproducts (for ethanol, in this case), won't we be having > problems with the genetically modified yeasts that are being created to > ferment these byproducts? The "episode" in Oregon (where the "killer > yeast" that turns all plant life -- well, their root systems -- into > alcohol was created) comes to mind... > -- > Steve J. Rankin > sjhr2000 at mailcan.com > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From francismiller at comcast.net Mon Oct 29 18:48:20 2007 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:48:20 -0600 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate In-Reply-To: References: <1193677315.20085.1218421065@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <47267144.5070103@comcast.net> Sorry, that's the recipe for moonshine. Fran Will Mackin wrote: >I don't have a citation for this, but my impression of the cellulosic >process is as follows; > >Mass produce an enzyme with transgenic bacteria. Purify that enzyme, as >is done for any amino acid supplement, many other products. > >The enzyme is used to break the cellulose into digestible sugars. > >The sugars are fermented with yeast. > >If that's the process, it should not be a problem ethically, at least >for me. > > >On Oct 29, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Steve Rankin wrote: > > > >>Well, the price of corn has gone up from something like $1.40 to $3.50 >>per bushel, but that's in the U.S.; since much of that corn is >>genetically modified, I would think that it wouldn't affect the price >>of >>corn in Africa (for instance) as much because of their concerns with >>GMOs (but I'm not an economist) and I'm not even aware of any >>industrial >>ethanol production being done in Africa. >> >>Anyway, I have a question: once we "switch over" from grains to >>agricultural byproducts (for ethanol, in this case), won't we be having >>problems with the genetically modified yeasts that are being created to >>ferment these byproducts? The "episode" in Oregon (where the "killer >>yeast" that turns all plant life -- well, their root systems -- into >>alcohol was created) comes to mind... >>-- >> Steve J. Rankin >> sjhr2000 at mailcan.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From lyle at blast.com Mon Oct 29 20:35:16 2007 From: lyle at blast.com (Lyle Estill) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:35:16 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Crimes Against Humanity Message-ID: <98314F3A-0163-48FD-B98A-D00E8184C56A@blast.com> If biofuels are a crime against humanity, what does that make petroleum? If I end up in the Hague, do me a favor, don't slip me a file. Get me my plasma cutter. Lyle Estill Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop 919-321-8260 Fax: 919-321-6769 From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Oct 30 00:21:14 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:21:14 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] RANGE FUELS TO HOLD GROUNDBREAKING FOR CELLULOSIC PLANT References: Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > 2007-10-29 02:34:06 EDT > ***RANGE FUELS TO HOLD GROUNDBREAKING FOR CELLULOSIC PLANT > A cellulosic ethanol company funded by California-based Khosla > Ventures is > holding a groundbreaking next week for its first planned facility > in Georgia, > the company recently announced. > The Nov. 6 groundbreaking at Range Fuels' Soperton, Ga., > location will > include remarks from Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue (R), Range Fuels CEO > Mitch > Mandich and Khosla Ventures founder Vinod Khosla. > The facility has a goal of producing 100 million gal/yr of > cellulosic > ethanol from wood residues and wood-based energy crops, with a > first phase of > producing 20 million gal/yr sometime in 2008. It's unclear when the > remaining > 80 million gal/yr of planned capacity would begin production. > Company officials previously told OPIS the ethanol site will > have rail > access through the Georgia Central shortline, but the plant will > likely also > truck product to main blending points in Savannah, less than 100 > miles away > from Soperton. > The groundbreaking will take place at 2 p.m. EST. > U.S. DOE announced earlier this year that the company would > receive up to > $76 million to help fund the project. Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com Tue Oct 30 09:42:56 2007 From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:42:56 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate In-Reply-To: References: <1193677315.20085.1218421065@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1193755376.26119.1218606329@webmail.messagingengine.com> Good information to know. My main concern is really about the genetic modification of the various "super yeasts" that is currently being conducted (even in RTP). Since gentically-modified products do not tend to be thoroughly tested by neutral scientific groups or whatever, I'm afraid that the yeasts will eventually cause problems for any area its used in, in the both short and long term. thanks, Steve On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:31:28 -0400, "Will Mackin" said: > I don't have a citation for this, but my impression of the cellulosic > process is as follows; > > Mass produce an enzyme with transgenic bacteria. Purify that enzyme, as > is done for any amino acid supplement, many other products. > > The enzyme is used to break the cellulose into digestible sugars. > > The sugars are fermented with yeast. > > If that's the process, it should not be a problem ethically, at least > for me. -- Steve J. Rankin sjhr2000 at mailcan.com From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com Tue Oct 30 09:45:17 2007 From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:45:17 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate In-Reply-To: <47267144.5070103@comcast.net> References: <1193677315.20085.1218421065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <47267144.5070103@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1193755517.26778.1218607513@webmail.messagingengine.com> wait... this isn't the white lightnin' listserv? Oops! My bad... :) On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:48:20 -0600, "Francis M. Miller" said: > Sorry, that's the recipe for moonshine. Fran > > > > Will Mackin wrote: > > >I don't have a citation for this, but my impression of the cellulosic > >process is as follows; > > > >Mass produce an enzyme with transgenic bacteria. Purify that enzyme, as > >is done for any amino acid supplement, many other products. > > > >The enzyme is used to break the cellulose into digestible sugars. > > > >The sugars are fermented with yeast. > > > >If that's the process, it should not be a problem ethically, at least > >for me. -- Steve J. Rankin sjhr2000 at mailcan.com From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com Tue Oct 30 09:48:36 2007 From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:48:36 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Interesting take on the "Biofuels vs. Food" debate In-Reply-To: <3527113b0710291808w21e5d824pf2c3a783e1e0eba5@mail.gmail.com> References: <1193677315.20085.1218421065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <47267144.5070103@comcast.net> <3527113b0710291808w21e5d824pf2c3a783e1e0eba5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193755716.27117.1218607811@webmail.messagingengine.com> I hear ya on that one! I'm a big sustainable farming kinda guy (as many on the listserv are, I'm sure), and the best thing about expensive oil in my opinion is that it'll [hopefully] make known the true cost of industrially-produced food (for people). Now if we can only get rid of certain government subsidies... On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:08:30 -0500, "Simon Lobdell" said: > He is right. That is also the recipe for celusic ethanol. There is no > magic to it the thermodynamics of cell growth. Sugar works better and > the > bugs that grow on cellulose produce said enzyme as part of their life > cycle > that breaks cellulose and hemicellulose (big messy molecules)down to > simple > sugars which can easily be converted into alcohols. the bacteria are > cultured and modified to overproduce the enzyme and that is harvested in > an > extrememly controlled environment. The enzyme is used to pretreat some > feedstock and then the resulting sugar rich feedstock is fed through > standard ethanol production. The resulting thermodynamics continue to > suck > and there is no way around it as of yet. BUt stay tuned the magic bullet > to > relieve all our world's thermodynamic excesses is just a cell away... > Please > excuse my sardonic tone but it is farily clear to me that the only real > "solution" to our energy supply problem is use less energy. biofuels or > others... LEts hear a big hurrah for the 100$ barrel.. > > Simon -- Steve J. Rankin sjhr2000 at mailcan.com From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Oct 30 16:03:06 2007 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:03:06 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt Message-ID: http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/ From biodiesel at yovo.info Tue Oct 30 20:47:20 2007 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:47:20 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4727DEA8.5050204@yovo.info> Oh boy - leave it to Detroit to take a perfectly respectable plug-in hybrid car and turn it UUUgly! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J?rgen Matthew Rudolf wrote: > http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/ > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Tue Oct 30 22:23:25 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:23:25 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt Message-ID: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! Rich Cregar From dlane20 at nc.rr.com Wed Oct 31 07:00:36 2007 From: dlane20 at nc.rr.com (dlane20 at nc.rr.com) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 8:00:36 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Has anyone heard or read about a French designed pneumatic engine? Message-ID: <9973668.277511193832036998.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web07-z01> This isn't biofuels, but since the Volt is being discussed, when I posted about my gas to diesel truck conversion, a retired Navy gentleman from SC gave me a call and we talked some time about various automotive and other technologies. He told me about a pneumatic engine that worked in conjunction with a carbon fiber air tank that was designed by a French man who used to work with Indy cars. He said the engine was made of plastic and about the size of a soccer ball. The man was supposedly trying to start manufacturing the engine in India. Also, the inventor was told to be working on a pneumatic rotary engine as well. I was told that the engine would allow the vehicle to go 200 miles (?) on a single charge and it only took 90 seconds for a refill. I?ve searched for info time after time online, but I?ve been coming up empty. I?m just curious to learn more about this if it?s out there somewhere. Regards, David Lane From Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com Wed Oct 31 07:10:08 2007 From: Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com (Long, Patrick) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:10:08 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Has anyone heard or read about a Frenchdesigned pneumatic engine? In-Reply-To: <9973668.277511193832036998.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web07-z01> Message-ID: My understanding of pneumatic motors is that they are very inefficient, but can be useful in explosion proof environments. http://www.gastmfg.com/ Patrick This isn't biofuels, but since the Volt is being discussed, when I posted about my gas to diesel truck conversion, a retired Navy gentleman from SC gave me a call and we talked some time about various automotive and other technologies. He told me about a pneumatic engine that worked in conjunction with a carbon fiber air tank that was designed by a French man who used to work with Indy cars. He said the engine was made of plastic and about the size of a soccer ball. The man was supposedly trying to start manufacturing the engine in India. Also, the inventor was told to be working on a pneumatic rotary engine as well. I was told that the engine would allow the vehicle to go 200 miles (?) on a single charge and it only took 90 seconds for a refill. I've searched for info time after time online, but I've been coming up empty. I'm just curious to learn more about this if it's out there somewhere. Regards, David Lane From biodiesel at yovo.info Wed Oct 31 08:29:13 2007 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:29:13 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <47288329.80009@yovo.info> Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG). Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids don't look so good, because their components require very energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle. Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while. Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity that picture changes, of course! And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ... Cheers, Jurgen rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: > And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! > > Rich Cregar > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From shiftlink at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 08:39:36 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:39:36 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> <47288329.80009@yovo.info> <4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> Nothing wrong with a little nuke action! Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is going nowhere without nuclear. On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn wrote: > Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs > like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can > take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG). > > Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids > don't look so good, because their components require very > energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the > simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle. > > Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density > urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are > babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while. > Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity > that picture changes, of course! > > And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times > is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ... > > Cheers, > Jurgen > > > rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: > > And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! > > > > Rich Cregar > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From info at theforestfoundation.org Wed Oct 31 15:10:40 2007 From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:10:40 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> <47288329.80009@yovo.info> <4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com> <4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org> I guess you'll volunteer your town for the next spent fuel disposal site? It's an issue of relative risk and internalization of all costs and benefits. Nuke is the most expensive electricity out there. Most costs are in regulatory requirements, design and construction. France used one design and stamped it out, that lowered cost. Cameron Conover wrote: > Nothing wrong with a little nuke action! > > Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry > use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it > wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is > going nowhere without nuclear. > > > > > On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn wrote: > >> Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs >> like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can >> take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG). >> >> Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids >> don't look so good, because their components require very >> energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the >> simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle. >> >> Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density >> urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are >> babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while. >> Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity >> that picture changes, of course! >> >> And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times >> is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ... >> >> Cheers, >> Jurgen >> >> >> rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: >> >>> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! >>> >>> Rich Cregar >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From shiftlink at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 15:58:33 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:58:33 -0500 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org> References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> <47288329.80009@yovo.info> <4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com> <4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> <4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0710311358y66c92047j4be01d36b4b1eaea@mail.gmail.com> My yard is your yard, If it gets us out of the middle eastern oil and cleans the air I breathe the amount of waste it creates is minimal compared to the amount of power generated. The waste from most our power plants is now floating around in the air, it's in your yard, your lungs, your kids lungs, everywhere, one containment area is a better alternative to me. The Chevy volt and all the other plug in cars burn coal, thats worse than gasoline and less efficient. . On 10/31/07, Info -TFF wrote: > I guess you'll volunteer your town for the next spent fuel disposal site? > > It's an issue of relative risk and internalization of all costs and > benefits. Nuke is the most expensive electricity out there. Most costs > are in regulatory requirements, design and construction. France used > one design and stamped it out, that lowered cost. > > Cameron Conover wrote: > > Nothing wrong with a little nuke action! > > > > Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry > > use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it > > wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is > > going nowhere without nuclear. > > > > > > > > > > On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn wrote: > > > >> Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs > >> like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can > >> take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG). > >> > >> Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids > >> don't look so good, because their components require very > >> energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the > >> simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle. > >> > >> Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density > >> urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are > >> babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while. > >> Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity > >> that picture changes, of course! > >> > >> And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times > >> is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ... > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Jurgen > >> > >> > >> rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: > >> > >>> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! > >>> > >>> Rich Cregar > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > > > From one at swimmindustries.com Wed Oct 31 16:28:59 2007 From: one at swimmindustries.com (Mike Swimm) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:28:59 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0710311358y66c92047j4be01d36b4b1eaea@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> <47288329.80009@yovo.info> <4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com> <4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> <4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org> <4c758e6d0710311358y66c92047j4be01d36b4b1eaea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7b8f03e00710311428y73caddc0he6f17737b843cc5d@mail.gmail.com> "The Chevy volt and all the other plug in cars burn coal, thats worse than gasoline and less efficient." First of all assuming all plug-in hybrids will be powered by non-renewable resources is absurd. There are tens of thousands of people powering their homes with renewable electricity that are anxiously awaiting these cars. Secondly, the vast majority of power plants, regardless of what fuel they use, are WAY more efficient than the cheap engines that power cars. From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Wed Oct 31 17:30:38 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:30:38 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Has anyone heard or read about a French designed pneumatic engine? Message-ID: <20071031.183038.16773.0@webmail18.dca.untd.com> I attended a presentation given by some product development engineers at Ford. Ford is actively pursuing air-hybrid technology. They see the potential for an air-hybrid drive to replace electric drives such as used in Prius due to much lower costs and greater simplicity with the same efficiency. How they do it is difficult to explain via e-mail. If you are really interested, stop by Wake Tech during my office hours and I will lay it out for you---- or convince me that if I write an article someone will publish it! Rich Cregar From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Wed Oct 31 17:36:06 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:36:06 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt Message-ID: <20071031.183606.16773.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Huzzah!! Cameron. Now the big question: Why isn't Al Gore shouting this from the rooftops? Rich Cregar From one at swimmindustries.com Wed Oct 31 18:16:22 2007 From: one at swimmindustries.com (Mike Swimm) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:16:22 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <20071031.183606.16773.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com> References: <20071031.183606.16773.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <7b8f03e00710311616o749152aeu56a9cb81bc9f8ca7@mail.gmail.com> "The Chevy volt and all the other plug in cars burn coal, thats worse than gasoline and less efficient." First of all assuming all plug-in hybrids will be powered by non-renewable resources is absurd. There are tens of thousands of people powering their homes with renewable electricity that are anxiously awaiting these cars. Secondly, the vast majority of power plants, regardless of what fuel they use, are WAY more efficient than the cheap engines that power our cars. From shiftlink at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 19:03:08 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:03:08 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0710311702r42508774s7f784267864d40bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> <47288329.80009@yovo.info> <4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com> <4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> <4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org> <4c758e6d0710311358y66c92047j4be01d36b4b1eaea@mail.gmail.com> <7b8f03e00710311419r3cfb8170x1812c9f9b6e11fbb@mail.gmail.com> <4c758e6d0710311702r42508774s7f784267864d40bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0710311703s5b5c2926r45fd289aef266799@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Cameron Conover Date: Oct 31, 2007 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt To: Mike Swimm No C,mon I want some proof, there are ULEV vehicles in Hondas that actualy clean the air in some enviornments. I'm an automotive technician and I study engine performance and I know what comes out of modern engines, it's not much, and it is much less than what spews out of the coal fired power plants that power most of NC. On 10/31/07, Mike Swimm wrote: > "The Chevy volt and all the other plug in cars burn coal, thats worse > than gasoline and less efficient." > > First of all assuming all plug-in hybrids will be powered by > non-renewable resources is absurd. There are tens of thousands of > people powering their homes with renewable electricity that are > anxiously awaiting these cars. > > Secondly, the vast majority of power plants, regardless of what fuel > they use, are WAY more efficient than the cheap engines that power > cars. > > Mike Swimm > From shiftlink at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 19:22:53 2007 From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:22:53 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: <003e01c81c04$f192b630$e359dd46@acer2e68c49b20> References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> <47288329.80009@yovo.info> <4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com> <4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> <4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org> <003e01c81c04$f192b630$e359dd46@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: <4c758e6d0710311722n370a8ie9b71a33b32ae4ac@mail.gmail.com> I'll get back to this, I know for one thing that a nuclear plant provides many more jobs than you describe, my brother has one of those jobs. And I'm going to find out for you how many metric tons of particulate emissions and HC's and CO are spewed from other types of power plants on an annual basis in this country. I'd seriously rather bury that breathe it, that aside, the government has regulations that basically produce more waste from the fuel rods, they can be used much more thoroughly than we are using them. I'm going to be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'm not disappearing, and I really would like to have a real discussion about this, because I think that there is a bit of a knee jerk reaction, in the "green" sustainable energy community against nuclear, when a lot of people don't know all the sides of the story. Cameron On 10/31/07, Ned Ryan Doyle wrote: > Cameron, > Your thoughts reflect that of many American regarding, among other > misconceptions, the 'minimal amount' of waste. > In fact, there are currently over 44,000 metric tons of high level waste > in storage - with no where to go safely- plus 100's of tons of so called > 'low level' waste. Since some of it will deliver a lethal dose in 3 hours, > rather than only 20 minutes like reactor rods, they are technically low > level waste. Some of this is already being shipped nationwide, nearly all > heading this way to the South, or back. A longer story. > However, information and education on this issue is easily obtainable, > such as if one considers tuning in this Sunday to "Our Southern Community" > on WNCW 88.7 FM, Spindale, NC at 9:30 AM for an interview with Mary Olson, > SE Coordinator for NIRS, Nuclear Information and Resource Service about this > very issue, or at www.nirs.org for more specific details. > And as Info TFF noted, even if you believe on faith alone it's safe, the > economics are incredibly bad, beyond any other energy source. Wall Street > refuses to finance any new reactors, that's why the Energy Bill in the > Senate has a one line provision to offer 50 billion dollars in taxpayer > guarantees, with no oversight and no limits for more money. Imagine the cost > of only one nuke plant - about 3-4 billion dollars when things go 'right' - > instead spent on solar, wind or bio fuels development... how many more jobs? > One nuke plant offers maybe 30-40 jobs long term. Why is health care for > kids such a bad idea, yet billions in 'energy welfare' for the nuclear > industry is just fine? Even without climate change problems, it makes no > sense. > And there is no net positive contribution to climate issues by using > nukes, but that's another reason worth some independent research on nuke > issues :) > > Sustainably Yours, Ned Ryan Doyle > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Info -TFF" > To: "Cameron Conover" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt > > > >I guess you'll volunteer your town for the next spent fuel disposal site? > > > > It's an issue of relative risk and internalization of all costs and > > benefits. Nuke is the most expensive electricity out there. Most costs > > are in regulatory requirements, design and construction. France used > > one design and stamped it out, that lowered cost. > > > > Cameron Conover wrote: > >> Nothing wrong with a little nuke action! > >> > >> Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry > >> use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it > >> wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is > >> going nowhere without nuclear. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn wrote: > >> > >>> Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs > >>> like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can > >>> take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG). > >>> > >>> Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids > >>> don't look so good, because their components require very > >>> energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the > >>> simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle. > >>> > >>> Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density > >>> urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are > >>> babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while. > >>> Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity > >>> that picture changes, of course! > >>> > >>> And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times > >>> is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ... > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Jurgen > >>> > >>> > >>> rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: > >>> > >>>> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, > >>>> especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a > >>>> W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! > >>>> > >>>> Rich Cregar > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > >>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From kkrebs at mindspring.com Wed Oct 31 19:59:13 2007 From: kkrebs at mindspring.com (Ken) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:59:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt Message-ID: <22207747.1193878753389.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> chernobyl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster or is that too knee-jerk? -----Original Message----- >From: Cameron Conover >Sent: Oct 31, 2007 8:22 PM >To: Ned Ryan Doyle >Cc: info at theforestfoundation.org, biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt > >I'll get back to this, I know for one thing that a nuclear plant >provides many more jobs than you describe, my brother has one of those >jobs. And I'm going to find out for you how many metric tons of >particulate emissions and HC's and CO are spewed from other types of >power plants on an annual basis in this country. I'd seriously rather >bury that breathe it, that aside, the government has regulations that >basically produce more waste from the fuel rods, they can be used much >more thoroughly than we are using them. > >I'm going to be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'm not >disappearing, and I really would like to have a real discussion about >this, because I think that there is a bit of a knee jerk reaction, in >the "green" sustainable energy community against nuclear, when a lot >of people don't know all the sides of the story. > >Cameron > > >On 10/31/07, Ned Ryan Doyle wrote: >> Cameron, >> Your thoughts reflect that of many American regarding, among other >> misconceptions, the 'minimal amount' of waste. >> In fact, there are currently over 44,000 metric tons of high level waste >> in storage - with no where to go safely- plus 100's of tons of so called >> 'low level' waste. Since some of it will deliver a lethal dose in 3 hours, >> rather than only 20 minutes like reactor rods, they are technically low >> level waste. Some of this is already being shipped nationwide, nearly all >> heading this way to the South, or back. A longer story. >> However, information and education on this issue is easily obtainable, >> such as if one considers tuning in this Sunday to "Our Southern Community" >> on WNCW 88.7 FM, Spindale, NC at 9:30 AM for an interview with Mary Olson, >> SE Coordinator for NIRS, Nuclear Information and Resource Service about this >> very issue, or at www.nirs.org for more specific details. >> And as Info TFF noted, even if you believe on faith alone it's safe, the >> economics are incredibly bad, beyond any other energy source. Wall Street >> refuses to finance any new reactors, that's why the Energy Bill in the >> Senate has a one line provision to offer 50 billion dollars in taxpayer >> guarantees, with no oversight and no limits for more money. Imagine the cost >> of only one nuke plant - about 3-4 billion dollars when things go 'right' - >> instead spent on solar, wind or bio fuels development... how many more jobs? >> One nuke plant offers maybe 30-40 jobs long term. Why is health care for >> kids such a bad idea, yet billions in 'energy welfare' for the nuclear >> industry is just fine? Even without climate change problems, it makes no >> sense. >> And there is no net positive contribution to climate issues by using >> nukes, but that's another reason worth some independent research on nuke >> issues :) >> >> Sustainably Yours, Ned Ryan Doyle >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Info -TFF" >> To: "Cameron Conover" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt >> >> >> >I guess you'll volunteer your town for the next spent fuel disposal site? >> > >> > It's an issue of relative risk and internalization of all costs and >> > benefits. Nuke is the most expensive electricity out there. Most costs >> > are in regulatory requirements, design and construction. France used >> > one design and stamped it out, that lowered cost. >> > >> > Cameron Conover wrote: >> >> Nothing wrong with a little nuke action! >> >> >> >> Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry >> >> use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it >> >> wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is >> >> going nowhere without nuclear. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn wrote: >> >> >> >>> Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs >> >>> like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can >> >>> take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG). >> >>> >> >>> Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids >> >>> don't look so good, because their components require very >> >>> energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the >> >>> simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle. >> >>> >> >>> Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density >> >>> urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are >> >>> babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while. >> >>> Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity >> >>> that picture changes, of course! >> >>> >> >>> And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times >> >>> is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ... >> >>> >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> Jurgen >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, >> >>>> especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a >> >>>> W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! >> >>>> >> >>>> Rich Cregar >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> >>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com Wed Oct 31 20:23:56 2007 From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:23:56 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing what Detroit says is impossible" Message-ID: <1193880236.31722.1218930553@webmail.messagingengine.com> http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/30/14161/066 -- Steve J. Rankin sjhr2000 at mailcan.com From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Oct 31 20:40:23 2007 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:40:23 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Gaston County schools References: <171FA09CD9AE6E4DAACBEFEBF632143B2590196A08@EXVMBX003-1.exch003intermedia.net> Message-ID: <863BB329-7EBC-42DC-AD74-E255A28B14F5@blast.com> Way to go Grady & team! Begin forwarded message: > http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-103107-krg- > biodiesel.1c48fe1fe.html From skepticbill at mac.com Wed Oct 31 20:44:55 2007 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:44:55 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Oil Majors Quietly Investing In Renewable Fuel Sector In-Reply-To: <1193880236.31722.1218930553@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: An investment blog I read had this (unsurprising) piece. With oil at $95/brl renewables are looking better and better. ------------------------------- Oil Majors Quietly Investing In Renewable Fuel Sector from: http://tinyurl.com/34784f In case you have missed it, the oil majors are quietly investing in the renewable fuel sector. ConocoPhillips (COP) has made the largest foray with its partnership with Tyson Foods (TSN) to produce biodiesel from chicken fat and a recently announced deal with Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) to produce fuel from biomass (farm waste). Exxon (XOM), while publicly downplaying and almost mocking the role of biofuels for years, is currently funding research at Stanford University. Marathon Oil (MRO) has actually partnered with ethanol maker The Andersons (ANDE) and the two are producing ethanol from corn at a plant they plan to retrofit when additional feedstock are viable. BP (BP) has pledged $500 million to research at the University of California at Berkeley and its partners, the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and is attempting to make bio-butanol commercially viable. Royal Dutch Shell PLC has two separate joint ventures, one in Germany and one in Canada, aimed at producing ethanol from noncorn sources. Now, are the investments huge? No. Did they exist three years ago? No. Biofuels are both politically popular and extremely popular with the consumer. The big takeaway here is that the alternative energy companies are not alone in this effort today. It all but assures a permanent place for biofuels. The only question that remains to be asked is what the market looks like. Currently it is extremely fragmented and consolidation is inevitable and necessary. It is becoming a global market like oil and the players who are first to begin the global consolidation will prosper. Bunge (BG) is in South America and ADM has made no secret of its desire to acquire large scale Brazilian production and has even made public pronouncements about acquiring additional US facilities. One thing for sure, it will be exciting to watch.. From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net Mon Oct 29 13:15:33 2007 From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:15:33 GMT Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd. message from Paul Knott, NC Bionetwork Message-ID: <20071029.141533.6124.2@webmail17.dca.untd.com> With just ten days until the November 7th biodiesel conference, I am writing today to ask for you to make a final push to promote attendance. Registrations thus far are modest so we're looking for more participants by the end of the week. Attached are the flier and agenda for your use in spreading the word (again). Thanks for your assistance. Paul K. Paul Knott, MA, MPH Curriculum Coordinator BioNetwork BioBusiness Center Asheville-Buncombe Technical Community College 1463 Sand Hill Road, Suite 109 Candler, NC 28715 Phone: 828.254.1921, x5844 Fax: 828.281.9879 Cell: 828.775.2750 knottp at ncbionetwork.org www.ncbionetwork.org From info at seeexpo.com Wed Oct 31 16:28:06 2007 From: info at seeexpo.com (Ned Ryan Doyle) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:28:06 -0400 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com><47288329.80009@yovo.info><4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com><4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com> <4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org> Message-ID: <003e01c81c04$f192b630$e359dd46@acer2e68c49b20> Cameron, Your thoughts reflect that of many American regarding, among other misconceptions, the 'minimal amount' of waste. In fact, there are currently over 44,000 metric tons of high level waste in storage - with no where to go safely- plus 100's of tons of so called 'low level' waste. Since some of it will deliver a lethal dose in 3 hours, rather than only 20 minutes like reactor rods, they are technically low level waste. Some of this is already being shipped nationwide, nearly all heading this way to the South, or back. A longer story. However, information and education on this issue is easily obtainable, such as if one considers tuning in this Sunday to "Our Southern Community" on WNCW 88.7 FM, Spindale, NC at 9:30 AM for an interview with Mary Olson, SE Coordinator for NIRS, Nuclear Information and Resource Service about this very issue, or at www.nirs.org for more specific details. And as Info TFF noted, even if you believe on faith alone it's safe, the economics are incredibly bad, beyond any other energy source. Wall Street refuses to finance any new reactors, that's why the Energy Bill in the Senate has a one line provision to offer 50 billion dollars in taxpayer guarantees, with no oversight and no limits for more money. Imagine the cost of only one nuke plant - about 3-4 billion dollars when things go 'right' - instead spent on solar, wind or bio fuels development... how many more jobs? One nuke plant offers maybe 30-40 jobs long term. Why is health care for kids such a bad idea, yet billions in 'energy welfare' for the nuclear industry is just fine? Even without climate change problems, it makes no sense. And there is no net positive contribution to climate issues by using nukes, but that's another reason worth some independent research on nuke issues :) Sustainably Yours, Ned Ryan Doyle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Info -TFF" To: "Cameron Conover" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt >I guess you'll volunteer your town for the next spent fuel disposal site? > > It's an issue of relative risk and internalization of all costs and > benefits. Nuke is the most expensive electricity out there. Most costs > are in regulatory requirements, design and construction. France used > one design and stamped it out, that lowered cost. > > Cameron Conover wrote: >> Nothing wrong with a little nuke action! >> >> Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry >> use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it >> wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is >> going nowhere without nuclear. >> >> >> >> >> On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn wrote: >> >>> Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs >>> like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can >>> take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG). >>> >>> Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids >>> don't look so good, because their components require very >>> energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the >>> simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle. >>> >>> Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density >>> urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are >>> babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while. >>> Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity >>> that picture changes, of course! >>> >>> And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times >>> is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jurgen >>> >>> >>> rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote: >>> >>>> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, >>>> especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a >>>> W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt! >>>> >>>> Rich Cregar >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group