From wrenchwench at blast.com  Thu Nov  1 07:00:12 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:00:12 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article from NREL today
References: <D81872B8-1A97-4E85-A564-7C881CA3773E@blast.com>
Message-ID: <27BEAA5D-3F63-4F87-9091-3904072AFEB9@blast.com>


>
>
> Algae from NREL......
>
>> http://www.nrel.gov/news/press/2007/535.html
>> ______________
>>


From tobin at tjcog.org  Thu Nov  1 07:44:30 2007
From: tobin at tjcog.org (Tobin Freid)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:44:30 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt
References: <20071030.232325.21777.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com><47288329.80009@yovo.info><4c758e6d0710310634m3aaab1ceufc051b4e49d0a7fb@mail.gmail.com><4c758e6d0710310639s5e39497mb7088a85a922c53a@mail.gmail.com><4728E140.8060100@theforestfoundation.org>
	<4c758e6d0710311358y66c92047j4be01d36b4b1eaea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005a01c81c85$d764e180$1800a8c0@cleancities>

I would like to point out that plugging in a car at night really doesn't 
increase the amount of pollution created by power plants, whatever type they 
might be.  Power plants produce excess energy at night because they can't 
just shut down during low demand periods.  And they don't have a way to 
store that energy so right now it is being wasted.  Plugging in a car at 
night does not increase demand beyond what is already being produced.  Also, 
fully charging a Plug-in Prius, for example, only takes about $0.50 worth of 
electricity.  Charging a neighborhood electric vehicle is about equivalent 
to running a 25 watt lightbulb for an hour.

Of course, if we all had plug-ins, that might be a different story, but we 
are a long way off from that.

Tobin L. Freid
Project Coordinator for Energy and Environment
Triangle J Council of Governments
(919) 558-9400

-- Triangle J Council of Governments is a Best Workplace for Commuters --
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cameron Conover" <shiftlink at gmail.com>
To: <info at theforestfoundation.org>
Cc: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt


> My yard is your yard, If it gets us out of the middle eastern oil and
> cleans the air I breathe the amount of waste it creates is minimal
> compared to the amount of power generated.  The waste from most our
> power plants is now floating around in the air, it's in your yard,
> your lungs, your kids lungs, everywhere, one containment area is a
> better alternative to me.
> The Chevy volt and all the other plug in cars burn coal, thats worse
> than gasoline and less efficient. .
>
>
> On 10/31/07, Info -TFF <info at theforestfoundation.org> wrote:
>> I guess you'll volunteer your town for the next spent fuel disposal site?
>>
>> It's an issue of relative risk and internalization of all costs and
>> benefits.  Nuke is the most expensive electricity out there.  Most costs
>> are in regulatory requirements, design and construction.  France used
>> one design and stamped it out, that lowered cost.
>>
>> Cameron Conover wrote:
>> > Nothing wrong with a little nuke action!
>> >
>> > Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry
>> > use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it
>> > wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is
>> > going nowhere without nuclear.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn <biodiesel at yovo.info> wrote:
>> >
>> >>  Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient 
>> >> designs
>> >> like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can
>> >> take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 
>> >> MPG).
>> >>
>> >> Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech 
>> >> hybrids
>> >> don't look so good, because their components require very
>> >> energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the
>> >> simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle.
>> >>
>> >> Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density
>> >> urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are
>> >> babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while.
>> >> Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal 
>> >> electricity
>> >> that picture changes, of course!
>> >>
>> >> And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all 
>> >> times
>> >> is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ...
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Jurgen
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged, 
>> >>> especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than 
>> >>> a W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt!
>> >>>
>> >>> Rich Cregar
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>> >>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group 


From info at theforestfoundation.org  Thu Nov  1 12:53:30 2007
From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:53:30 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt
In-Reply-To: <22207747.1193878753389.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <22207747.1193878753389.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <472A129A.5030908@theforestfoundation.org>

This has been a very entertaining thread, and most of us are pretty well 
informed.

However, these are complex issues, that require cradle to cradle analysis.

Bang for the buck, alternatives are hands down more cost effective, safe 
and less polluting.  The problem is we consume way too much for 
renewables to make but a slight dent.

Coal gasification/liquification is likely the energy of the of the 
future, but also very expensive.

Coal can be burned with low emissions and carbon sequestration, the 
problem has been the grandfathered plants that are not retrofitted with 
clean air tech, use mercury laden ore, promote mountain top removal, etc.

The biggest problem is large energy companies and utilities buying our 
politicians, and nothing is going to get changed, or the correct 
policies and strategies made until we reform the election process and 
our economy so that true costs and benefits are reflected in our 
decisions.  Oh yeah and China is building very dirty plants, 1 a week.

www.fairvote.org

time for a revolution!

Marc

Ken wrote:
> chernobyl
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
>
> or is that too knee-jerk?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>   
>> From: Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Oct 31, 2007 8:22 PM
>> To: Ned Ryan Doyle <info at seeexpo.com>
>> Cc: info at theforestfoundation.org, biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt
>>
>> I'll get back to this, I know for one thing that a nuclear plant
>> provides many more jobs than you describe, my brother has one of those
>> jobs.  And I'm going to find out for you how many metric tons of
>> particulate emissions and HC's and CO are spewed from other types of
>> power plants on an annual basis in this country.  I'd seriously rather
>> bury that breathe it, that aside, the government has regulations that
>> basically produce more waste from the fuel rods, they can be used much
>> more thoroughly than we are using them.
>>
>> I'm going to be out of town for a couple of weeks, but I'm not
>> disappearing, and I really would like to have a real discussion about
>> this, because I think that there is a bit of a knee jerk reaction, in
>> the "green" sustainable energy community against nuclear, when a lot
>> of people don't know all the sides of the story.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/07, Ned Ryan Doyle <info at seeexpo.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Cameron,
>>>     Your thoughts reflect that of many American regarding, among other
>>> misconceptions, the 'minimal amount' of waste.
>>>     In fact, there are currently over 44,000 metric tons of high level waste
>>> in storage - with no where to go safely- plus 100's of tons of so called
>>> 'low level' waste. Since some of it will deliver a lethal dose in 3 hours,
>>> rather than only 20 minutes like reactor rods, they are technically low
>>> level waste. Some of this is already being shipped nationwide, nearly all
>>> heading this way to the South, or back. A longer story.
>>>     However, information and education on this issue is easily obtainable,
>>> such as if one considers tuning in this Sunday to "Our Southern Community"
>>> on WNCW 88.7 FM, Spindale, NC at 9:30 AM for an interview with Mary Olson,
>>> SE Coordinator for NIRS, Nuclear Information and Resource Service about this
>>> very issue, or at www.nirs.org for more specific details.
>>>     And as Info TFF noted, even if you believe on faith alone it's safe, the
>>> economics are incredibly bad, beyond any other energy source. Wall Street
>>> refuses to finance any new reactors, that's why the Energy Bill in the
>>> Senate has a one line provision to offer 50 billion dollars in taxpayer
>>> guarantees, with no oversight and no limits for more money. Imagine the cost
>>> of only one nuke plant - about 3-4 billion dollars when things go 'right' -
>>> instead spent on solar, wind or bio fuels development... how many more jobs?
>>> One nuke plant offers maybe 30-40 jobs long term. Why is health care for
>>> kids such a bad idea, yet billions in 'energy welfare' for the nuclear
>>> industry is just fine? Even without climate change problems, it makes no
>>> sense.
>>>     And there is no net positive contribution to climate issues by using
>>> nukes, but that's another reason worth some independent research on nuke
>>> issues :)
>>>
>>> Sustainably Yours, Ned Ryan Doyle
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Info -TFF" <info at theforestfoundation.org>
>>> To: "Cameron Conover" <shiftlink at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevy Volt
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I guess you'll volunteer your town for the next spent fuel disposal site?
>>>>
>>>> It's an issue of relative risk and internalization of all costs and
>>>> benefits.  Nuke is the most expensive electricity out there.  Most costs
>>>> are in regulatory requirements, design and construction.  France used
>>>> one design and stamped it out, that lowered cost.
>>>>
>>>> Cameron Conover wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Nothing wrong with a little nuke action!
>>>>>
>>>>> Fossil I don't like, but if the Gov't would let the Nuclear industry
>>>>> use the fuel as efficiently as they are allowed to in Europe it
>>>>> wouldn't be considered to be nearly as dirty, and Hydrogen power is
>>>>> going nowhere without nuclear.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/07, Jurgen Henn <biodiesel at yovo.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  Styling aside - I think the future is in simple, ultraefficient designs
>>>>>> like the Loremo (http://evolution.loremo.com/). Give me a car that can
>>>>>> take me to work for a week on a Dr-Pepper-batch or biodiesel (200 MPG).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at "dust-to-dust" energy analyses, the fancy, high-tech hybrids
>>>>>> don't look so good, because their components require very
>>>>>> energy-intensive production processes. That perspective favors the
>>>>>> simple designs, like the old-style VW Beetle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly, electric cars, and plug-in hybrids are needed in high-density
>>>>>> urban areas. But that "pure electricity" the marketing shills are
>>>>>> babbling about is going to be fossil and nukes for a quite a while.
>>>>>> Nothing pure about that. Eventually, when we get geo-thermal electricity
>>>>>> that picture changes, of course!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as far as the stying goes - my favorite classic design of all times
>>>>>> is the early-1980s Porsche 911 ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Jurgen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> And the Prius is-------- ? I may be aesthetically challenged,
>>>>>>> especially as I think there is no better looking or timeless car than a
>>>>>>> W-126 Benz, but I'll take the styling of the Volt!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rich Cregar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>>>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>>         
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>     
>
>
>
>   

From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 16:22:16 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 17:22:16 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Doing what Detroit says is impossible."
Message-ID: <84a57a420711011422u4a82efd3q38c078c773fd4b8c@mail.gmail.com>

Big thanks to Steve Rankin for posting a link describing the article
about Johnathan Goodwin.  Just yesterday a friend gave me a photocopy
of the article from Fast Company magazine.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

I detected a bit of excessive exuberance on the part of the writer,
and some hyperbole from the clever Mr Goodwin, but it's still an
interesting and compelling article.  I'd be very curious to hear
engineers' thoughts on it.

Thanks,

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Doing what Detroit says is impossible
by kos
Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 11:50:06 AM PDT

This story is so incredible, I had to do additional research to
confirm that it was indeed true. It centers on Kansas City auto
mechanic and inventor Johnathan Goodwin.

    Two years ago, Goodwin got a rare chance to show off his tricks to
some of the car industry's most prominent engineers. He tells me the
story: He was driving a converted H2 to the SEMA show, the nation's
biggest annual specialty automotive confab, and stopped en route at a
Denver hotel. When he woke up in the morning, there were 20 people
standing around his Hummer. Did I run over somebody? he wondered. As
it turned out, they were engineers for GM, the Hummer's manufacturer.
They noticed that Goodwin's H2 looked modified. "Does it have a diesel
engine in it?"

    "Yeah," he said.

    "No way," they replied.

    He opened the hood, "and they're just all in and out and around
the valves and checking it out," he says. They asked to hear it run,
sending a stab of fear through Goodwin. He'd filled it up with grease
from a Chinese restaurant the day before and was worried that the cold
morning might have solidified the fuel. But it started up on the first
try and ran so quietly that at first they didn't believe it was really
on. "When you start a diesel engine up on vegetable oil," Goodwin
says, "you turn the key, and you hear nothing. Because of the
lubricating power of the oil, it's just so smooth. Whisper quiet. And
they're like, 'Is it running? Yeah, you can hear the fan going.'"

    One engineer turned and said, "GM said this wouldn't work."

    "Well," Goodwin replied, "here it is."

And what's the bottom line for Goodwin's modified vehicles? Stuff like this:

    Goodwin's feats of engineering have become gradually more visible
over the past year. Last summer, Imperium Renewables contacted MTV's
show Pimp My Ride about creating an Earth Day special in which Goodwin
would convert a muscle car to run on biodiesel. The show chose a '65
Chevy Impala, and when the conversion was done, he'd doubled its
mileage to 25 mpg and increased its pull from 250 to 800 horsepower.
As a stunt, MTV drag-raced the Impala against a Lamborghini on
California's Pomona Raceway. "The Impala blew the Lamborghini away,"
says Kevin Kluemper, the lead calibration engineer for GM's Allison
transmission unit, who'd flown down to help with the conversion.

Remember -- Detroit tells us it's impossible to increase gas mileage
without taking a hit on horsepower. Yet here's Goodwin -- with an
eight-grade education -- able to design motors that blow the doors off
the conventional (and obviously bullshit) wisdom.

His latest project?

    Goodwin leads me over to a red 2005 H3 Hummer that's up on jacks,
its mechanicals removed. He aims to use the turbine to turn the Hummer
into a tricked-out electric hybrid. Like most hybrids, it'll have two
engines, including an electric motor. But in this case, the second
will be the [jet] turbine, Goodwin's secret ingredient. Whenever the
truck's juice runs low, the turbine will roar into action for a few
seconds, powering a generator with such gusto that it'll recharge a
set of "supercapacitor" batteries in seconds. This means the H3's
electric motor will be able to perform awesome feats of acceleration
and power over and over again, like a Prius on steroids. What's more,
the turbine will burn biodiesel, a renewable fuel with much lower
emissions than normal diesel; a hydrogen-injection system will then
cut those low emissions in half. And when it's time to fill the tank,
he'll be able to just pull up to the back of a diner and dump in its
excess french-fry grease--as he does with his many other Hummers. Oh,
yeah, he adds, the horsepower will double--from 300 to 600.

    "Conservatively," Goodwin muses, scratching his chin, "it'll get
60 miles to the gallon. With 2,000 foot-pounds of torque. You'll be
able to smoke the tires. And it's going to be superefficient."

    He laughs. "Think about it: a 5,000-pound vehicle that gets 60
miles to the gallon and does zero to 60 in five seconds!"

And here's the punchline:

    Goodwin's work proves that a counterattack is possible, and maybe
easier than many of us imagined. If the dream is a big, badass ride
that's also clean, well, he's there already. As he points out, his
conversions consist almost entirely of taking stock GM parts and
snapping them together in clever new ways. "They could do all this
stuff if they wanted to," he tells me, slapping on a visor and
hunching over an arc welder. "The technology has been there forever.
They make 90% of the components I use."

The problem with Detroit isn't the laws of physics, it's the fact that
a guy who never even went to high school can do things -- with stock
parts -- that Detroit's auto executives and their armies of engineers
claim is impossible. Good ol' American know-how and ingenuity is alive
and well, just not where we need it.

From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com  Thu Nov  1 18:28:52 2007
From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:28:52 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Doing what Detroit says is
	impossible."
In-Reply-To: <84a57a420711011422u4a82efd3q38c078c773fd4b8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84a57a420711011422u4a82efd3q38c078c773fd4b8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1193959732.19906.1219114247@webmail.messagingengine.com>

now we can all guiltlessly (is that even a word?) drive Hummers around!
:)


On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 17:22:16 -0400, "John Bonitz" <john.bonitz at gmail.com>
said:
> Big thanks to Steve Rankin for posting a link describing the article
> about Johnathan Goodwin.  Just yesterday a friend gave me a photocopy
> of the article from Fast Company magazine.
> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html
> 
> I detected a bit of excessive exuberance on the part of the writer,
> and some hyperbole from the clever Mr Goodwin, but it's still an
> interesting and compelling article.  I'd be very curious to hear
> engineers' thoughts on it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> John Bonitz
-- 
  Steve J. Rankin
  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com


From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com  Thu Nov  1 18:33:27 2007
From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:33:27 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Doing what Detroit says is
	impossible."
In-Reply-To: <3527113b0711011603g4016c3d7x328840d9c1fbf3f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84a57a420711011422u4a82efd3q38c078c773fd4b8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<3527113b0711011603g4016c3d7x328840d9c1fbf3f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1193960007.20651.1219114483@webmail.messagingengine.com>

You're right: it doesn't sound very good or feasible especially in the
long term, really! But the possibilities are interesting...

Somewhat related, I saw a show on "nano engines" on the History Channel
several months back... now THOSE are very cool! (Perhaps we already
discussed them in the listserv?)

thanks,
Steve


On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 18:03:46 -0500, "Simon Lobdell"
<simonlobdell at gmail.com> said:
> WEll my first thought is that all these modifications are going to
> greatly
> shorten engine life.  It will all ping harder and faster, it will over
> stress all the mechanical components and will require a significantly
> bigger
> hunk of steel under the hood.  That is my first thought
-- 
  Steve J. Rankin
  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com


From jlwattersj at nc.rr.com  Thu Nov  1 22:02:34 2007
From: jlwattersj at nc.rr.com (Jay Watters)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 23:02:34 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing what
	Detroitsays is impossible"
References: <1193880236.31722.1218930553@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <012001c81cfc$d175e540$6502a8c0@jay>

This is an interesting article.

I drive a 2006 Jetta TDI. I am constantly amazed what this 90 HP engine will 
do on petrodiesel, let alone SVO.

Jay Watters


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Rankin" <sjhr2000 at mailcan.com>
To: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing what 
Detroitsays is impossible"


> http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/30/14161/066
> -- 
>  Steve J. Rankin
>  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> 



From tbuckner at ibiblio.org  Fri Nov  2 06:57:53 2007
From: tbuckner at ibiblio.org (Terri Buckner)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 07:57:53 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Ethanol fireplaces?
Message-ID: <472B10C1.2070703@ibiblio.org>

Anyone know about this product?
http://www.ecogreenfire.com/index.php


From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com  Fri Nov  2 07:43:49 2007
From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 08:43:49 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing what
 Detroitsays is impossible"
In-Reply-To: <012001c81cfc$d175e540$6502a8c0@jay>
References: <1193880236.31722.1218930553@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<012001c81cfc$d175e540$6502a8c0@jay>
Message-ID: <1194007429.3399.1219196235@webmail.messagingengine.com>

It must be interesting to see what a modern German engine like that will
do. I've always wondered if looking into German 1930s and WWII studies
on alternative fuels would be beneficial... perhaps someone already has?

-Steve


On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 23:02:34 -0400, "Jay Watters" <jlwattersj at nc.rr.com>
said:
> This is an interesting article.
> 
> I drive a 2006 Jetta TDI. I am constantly amazed what this 90 HP engine
> will 
> do on petrodiesel, let alone SVO.
> 
> Jay Watters
-- 
  Steve J. Rankin
  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com


From scotttsmith at bellsouth.net  Fri Nov  2 08:01:58 2007
From: scotttsmith at bellsouth.net (Scott Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:01:58 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel SUV/pickup recommendations?
Message-ID: <001601c81d50$93186da0$6503a8c0@Dell>

Hi.

Recognizing the diversity as well as the vast knowledge of the biofuels
interest group members, I would like to seek advice from the list members as
to a vehicle recommendation.  

I?m considering purchasing a new diesel vehicle, most likely either an SUV
or a pickup.? My wife and I live on a small farm, and we presently have a
diesel Excursion and an ?08 diesel F450.? The F450 is my daily driver, and
while it?s well suited for towing heavy farm related trailers (I routinely
tow 20K lbs or more), the non-towing fuel mileage is extremely poor.? Our
Excursion does fairly well, but it is frequently in use by my wife in her
veterinary practice.
?
So, I?m considering purchasing an additional diesel vehicle for non
heavy-towing use in order to significantly reduce my fuel consumption (as
well as wear and tear on the F450). ?Within the next year I expect to be
producing my own bio-diesel from WVO.  Most of my transportation needs are
associated with picking up supplies, materials, etc, so a vehicle suitable
for hauling bulky items is a must (such as a small/midsize SUV or pickup).  
?
In priority order, I?m interested in 1) maximum fuel mileage, 2) bio-diesel
compatibility (something greater than B5), and 3) ability to easily
load/unload materials, supplies, etc.

Purchasing new is an option, but I'm also comfortable with a used vehicle;
mainly I?m not looking for a "project" and would also like something that is
relatively quiet and comfortable to drive.

All suggestions are appreciated.
?
Thanks much.
?
Scott Smith



From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Fri Nov  2 10:02:54 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 11:02:54 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off Topic: update on climate legislation
Message-ID: <C350B45E.1832%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

For those who may be concerned about federal climate change policy, I
provide the following update.  For those opposed to it, please note my use
of the "Off-Topic" warning in the header, and exercise your delete key.

I am hearing from folks in DC that "the only vehicle on the road" is
Warner-Lieberman.  In at least one learned friend's opinion, it is the only
viable legislation due to Lieberman's authorship and power.  Also, this
person suggested that it will collect all manner of amendments and baggage,
so there's no way to say from one day to the next whether or not it will be
a good bill.  The proof will be in the pudding.  But for those North
Carolinians who want to see federal action, it would be good to contact Sen
Dole and thank her, and urge Sen Burr to get on-board.

Interestingly, Lieberman-Warner bill squeaked through Senate subcommittee
yesterday.  It now goes to the full Senate Environment and Public Works
Committee.

I understand that the bill has been strengthened.  However, many pollution
permits are still being freely allocated (despite several admirable attempts
by Sen. Sanders to tighten the allocations provision).  Also, the reduction
targets are still lower than what good science suggests (*at least* 80% by
2050) despite Sanders' attempts to raise them.

Stay tuned!

~ ~ ~

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org


Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that
create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy
communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
http://www.cleanenergy.org.




From rudolfdiesel at netzero.com  Fri Nov  2 11:33:21 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.com (rudolfdiesel at netzero.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 16:33:21 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing what
	Detroit	says is impossible"
Message-ID: <20071102.123321.26516.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>

It was not elegant. Friend of my fathers was a Lt. in the Waffen SS and often talked to me about his wartime experiences. He married in 1944, on the family farm in Germany. Food was being rationed. His wife's family had managed to get ahold of a pig which they slaughtered for a wedding feast. Since having the pig without permission was illegal, they were afraid to cook it in the hearth because neighbors might smell the odor from the chimney and report them to the police. He said they threw an old tire into the hearth. The smell of burning rubber hid the odor from the cooking pork. He said even pork tainted with burnt rubber was better than none at all. 
By the end of the war, Germany was running on coal and wood. The coal was gassified using the F-T process (developed in the early 20's) to produce diesel fuel, and many passenger cars were equipped with an onboard gassification unit. Basically they made charcoal in an anaerobic tank mounted on the rear bumper. they filled it up with wood and got it burning. The gases coming off the wood were collected at the top of the tank and routed thru a hose to the carburetor and inducted into the engine through a mixer not unlike early LPG systems. He said the car ran terrible, but it ran and could not go much faster than 30 MPH. It was still better than walking. You can see these devices on cars in wartime photos. 
Suggestion: read "Inside The Third Reich", the autobiography of Albert Speer

Rich Cregar


From timvictor at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 14:42:15 2007
From: timvictor at gmail.com (Tim Victor)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:42:15 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing what
	Detroit says is impossible"
In-Reply-To: <20071102.123321.26516.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>
References: <20071102.123321.26516.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <c6d151100711021242j47997258h5bcdcf2a7fcc9ba9@mail.gmail.com>

Steve Rankin wrote:
> I've always wondered if looking into German 1930s and WWII studies
> on alternative fuels would be beneficial... perhaps someone already has?

Yes, much. In 1979 Jimmy Carter said: "Beginning this moment, this nation
will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977 -- never. From now on,
every new addition to our demand for energy will be met from our own
production and our own conservation. The generation-long growth in our
dependence on foreign oil will be stopped dead in its tracks right now and
then reversed as we move through the 1980s..."

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0503-22.htm

Uh-huh... A moderately ambition synthetic fuels program was established
by the Synthetic Fuels Corporation Act of 1980, which was quietly killed
by Ronald Reagan in the 1985 (see Wikipedia) after a conveniently engineered
war between Iraq and Iran created an international oil glut. Oh, and it also
cost the lives of over a million men and boys on each side.

Actually more interesting to study at this point is the work--way more
than studies, actual high-volume industrial production--done in the 80s
and 90s in South Africa, another international pariah at the time because
of their apartheid policies.

For instance:
http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/presentations/acs2001_chicago/chic_slide01.htm

This is really attractive stuff and they're sitting pretty right now. It has
high cetane number and zero sulfur content. The state of Montana
is investing heavily in it, among many, to take advantage of their large
coal reserves.


Rich Cregar wrote:
> By the end of the war, Germany was running on coal and wood.
> The coal was gassified using the F-T process (developed in the
> early 20's) to produce diesel fuel, and many passenger cars were
> equipped with an onboard gassification unit. Basically they made
> charcoal in an anaerobic tank mounted on the rear bumper. they
> filled it up with wood and got it burning. The gases coming off the
> wood were collected at the top of the tank and routed thru a hose
> to the carburetor and inducted into the engine through a mixer not
> unlike early LPG systems. He said the car ran terrible, but it ran
> and could not go much faster than 30 MPH. It was still better than
> walking. You can see these devices on cars in wartime photos.

There's a whole online book about it here:

http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml

_Construction of a Simplified Wood Gas Generator for Fueling
Internal Combustion Engines in a Petroleum Emergency_

Peace,

Tim Victor

From ashbshaw at nc.rr.com  Fri Nov  2 18:40:21 2007
From: ashbshaw at nc.rr.com (Joe & Ashlyn)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 16:40:21 -0700
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
References: <20071102.123321.26516.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>
	<c6d151100711021242j47997258h5bcdcf2a7fcc9ba9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001701c81da9$bebbb3f0$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>

That was interesting, changing the subject. Do most co-op members know that 
they are pumping chicken fat waste at the Piedmont Biodiesel Pumps?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Victor" <timvictor at gmail.com>
To: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing 
whatDetroit says is impossible"


> Steve Rankin wrote:
>> I've always wondered if looking into German 1930s and WWII studies
>> on alternative fuels would be beneficial... perhaps someone already has?
>
> Yes, much. In 1979 Jimmy Carter said: "Beginning this moment, this nation
> will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977 -- never. From now on,
> every new addition to our demand for energy will be met from our own
> production and our own conservation. The generation-long growth in our
> dependence on foreign oil will be stopped dead in its tracks right now and
> then reversed as we move through the 1980s..."
>
> http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0503-22.htm
>
> Uh-huh... A moderately ambition synthetic fuels program was established
> by the Synthetic Fuels Corporation Act of 1980, which was quietly killed
> by Ronald Reagan in the 1985 (see Wikipedia) after a conveniently 
> engineered
> war between Iraq and Iran created an international oil glut. Oh, and it 
> also
> cost the lives of over a million men and boys on each side.
>
> Actually more interesting to study at this point is the work--way more
> than studies, actual high-volume industrial production--done in the 80s
> and 90s in South Africa, another international pariah at the time because
> of their apartheid policies.
>
> For instance:
> http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/presentations/acs2001_chicago/chic_slide01.htm
>
> This is really attractive stuff and they're sitting pretty right now. It 
> has
> high cetane number and zero sulfur content. The state of Montana
> is investing heavily in it, among many, to take advantage of their large
> coal reserves.
>
>
> Rich Cregar wrote:
>> By the end of the war, Germany was running on coal and wood.
>> The coal was gassified using the F-T process (developed in the
>> early 20's) to produce diesel fuel, and many passenger cars were
>> equipped with an onboard gassification unit. Basically they made
>> charcoal in an anaerobic tank mounted on the rear bumper. they
>> filled it up with wood and got it burning. The gases coming off the
>> wood were collected at the top of the tank and routed thru a hose
>> to the carburetor and inducted into the engine through a mixer not
>> unlike early LPG systems. He said the car ran terrible, but it ran
>> and could not go much faster than 30 MPH. It was still better than
>> walking. You can see these devices on cars in wartime photos.
>
> There's a whole online book about it here:
>
> http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml
>
> _Construction of a Simplified Wood Gas Generator for Fueling
> Internal Combustion Engines in a Petroleum Emergency_
>
> Peace,
>
> Tim Victor
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> 



From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 22:57:59 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:57:59 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off-Topic: FPL Group criticizes
	Warner-Lieberman
Message-ID: <84a57a420711022057j8af6475j499787a1016fc38a@mail.gmail.com>

FPL Group, Inc.
Corporate Communications
Media Line: (305) 552-3888
November 2, 2007

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

FPL Group Chairman calls climate bill
"Well-intentioned but fundamentally flawed"

JUNO BEACH, Fla. ? A climate change bill approved by a Senate
subcommittee Thursday would reward the country's biggest emitters of
carbon dioxide and fails to provide a reliable mechanism to prevent
possible massive economic damage, the head of one of the country's
largest electric power companies said today.
"I acknowledge and applaud the willingness of key senators to try and
address the important issue of global climate change. Unfortunately,
the bill they have proposed, if left unchanged, would reward the
country's biggest emitters of carbon dioxide with billions of dollars
of free allowances that they don't need.  Moreover, the bill contains
no clear 'safety valve,' to ensure that we don't inadvertently damage
the economy," said Lewis Hay, III, Chairman and CEO of FPL Group Inc.
(NYSE: FPL), which operates the country's largest wind and solar power
generating facilities. His comments came after a subcommittee of the
Senate Environment and Public Works Committee voted 4-3 to move the
America's Climate Security Act (S. 2191) to the full committee for
hearings and a markup.

Hay, noting that his company is a strong proponent of mandatory
climate change legislation, said he appreciated the hard work that the
measure's sponsors, Senators Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) and John Warner
(R-VA), and their staffs had put into the effort.

However, he pointed out that the bill as drafted provides generous
quantities of free allowances to companies that are the biggest
emitters of carbon dioxide, the major greenhouse gas, and that have
done little to improve their generating fleets' emissions profiles.
"If allowances are to be given away, they should be given away fairly,
treating every kilowatt-hour the same," Hay said.  "It makes no sense
to give the biggest emitters a disproportionate share of the
allowances.  That's like giving a bigger rebate to those of us who
dump the most trash on our sidewalks," he said.  "We have said all
along that giving away allowances is problematic, because it leads
inevitably to a political food fight. Unfortunately, this draft
legislation just illustrates our concern."

Hay also expressed concerns over the bill's provisions for controlling
costs.  "Industry and consumers alike need assurance that the costs of
addressing climate change will be manageable.  A well-defined 'safety
valve' mechanism is a must.  Unfortunately, the bill proposes an
elaborate and murky new bureaucracy that will provide anything but
clarity and reassurance," he said.  "Climate change is a long-term
problem and requires a long-term solution.  We should not run the risk
of wrecking our economy in a misguided effort to try and address it
too quickly.  Any legislation has to provide a sound mechanism to keep
that from happening."

Hay went on to say, "I fully agree with the overall goal of the
legislation. We need to enact a mandatory, economy-wide program that
slows the growth of carbon emissions and ultimately reverses the
trend. But we must take the time to get it right.  Compromising on key
provisions, like giving away allowances to the biggest emitters or
failing to include a clear safety valve, is not the way to start."

FPL Group, with annual revenues of nearly $16 billion, is nationally
known as a high quality, efficient, and customer-driven organization
focused on energy-related products and services. With a growing
presence in 27 states, it is widely recognized as one of the country's
premier power companies. Its principal subsidiary, Florida Power &
Light Company, serves 4.5 million customer accounts in Florida.  FPL
Energy, LLC, an FPL Group competitive energy subsidiary, is a leader
in producing electricity from clean and renewable fuels.  Additional
information is available on the Internet at www.FPLGroup.com
<http://www.fplgroup.com/> , www.FPL.com <http://www.fpl.com/>  and
www.FPLEnergy.com <http://www.fplenergy.com/> .


~ ~ ~

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org


Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices
that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and
healthy communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
http://www.cleanenergy.org.

From ashbshaw at nc.rr.com  Sat Nov  3 09:34:42 2007
From: ashbshaw at nc.rr.com (Joe & Ashlyn)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 07:34:42 -0700
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
References: <20071102.123321.26516.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com><c6d151100711021242j47997258h5bcdcf2a7fcc9ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<001701c81da9$bebbb3f0$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>
Message-ID: <001e01c81e26$ac870720$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>

Sorry for the rude change of subject in my last email, the software would 
not let me send something out on my on.

As far as Piedmont Biodiesel Industrial I would like to work with people in 
our co-op to help change the PBI feedstock from chicken waste to more veggie 
oil over time. I plan to make my own veggie fuel with PBC and work in anyway 
I can to support the co-op now and in the future.

Thanks, Joe Hayes
Vegan In Raleigh
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe & Ashlyn" <ashbshaw at nc.rr.com>
To: "Tim Victor" <timvictor at gmail.com>; 
<biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat


> That was interesting, changing the subject. Do most co-op members know 
> that
> they are pumping chicken fat waste at the Piedmont Biodiesel Pumps?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tim Victor" <timvictor at gmail.com>
> To: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing
> whatDetroit says is impossible"
>
>
>> Steve Rankin wrote:
>>> I've always wondered if looking into German 1930s and WWII studies
>>> on alternative fuels would be beneficial... perhaps someone already has?
>>
>> Yes, much. In 1979 Jimmy Carter said: "Beginning this moment, this nation
>> will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977 -- never. From now 
>> on,
>> every new addition to our demand for energy will be met from our own
>> production and our own conservation. The generation-long growth in our
>> dependence on foreign oil will be stopped dead in its tracks right now 
>> and
>> then reversed as we move through the 1980s..."
>>
>> http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0503-22.htm
>>
>> Uh-huh... A moderately ambition synthetic fuels program was established
>> by the Synthetic Fuels Corporation Act of 1980, which was quietly killed
>> by Ronald Reagan in the 1985 (see Wikipedia) after a conveniently
>> engineered
>> war between Iraq and Iran created an international oil glut. Oh, and it
>> also
>> cost the lives of over a million men and boys on each side.
>>
>> Actually more interesting to study at this point is the work--way more
>> than studies, actual high-volume industrial production--done in the 80s
>> and 90s in South Africa, another international pariah at the time because
>> of their apartheid policies.
>>
>> For instance:
>> http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/presentations/acs2001_chicago/chic_slide01.htm
>>
>> This is really attractive stuff and they're sitting pretty right now. It
>> has
>> high cetane number and zero sulfur content. The state of Montana
>> is investing heavily in it, among many, to take advantage of their large
>> coal reserves.
>>
>>
>> Rich Cregar wrote:
>>> By the end of the war, Germany was running on coal and wood.
>>> The coal was gassified using the F-T process (developed in the
>>> early 20's) to produce diesel fuel, and many passenger cars were
>>> equipped with an onboard gassification unit. Basically they made
>>> charcoal in an anaerobic tank mounted on the rear bumper. they
>>> filled it up with wood and got it burning. The gases coming off the
>>> wood were collected at the top of the tank and routed thru a hose
>>> to the carburetor and inducted into the engine through a mixer not
>>> unlike early LPG systems. He said the car ran terrible, but it ran
>>> and could not go much faster than 30 MPH. It was still better than
>>> walking. You can see these devices on cars in wartime photos.
>>
>> There's a whole online book about it here:
>>
>> http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml
>>
>> _Construction of a Simplified Wood Gas Generator for Fueling
>> Internal Combustion Engines in a Petroleum Emergency_
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> Tim Victor
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> 



From info at theforestfoundation.org  Sat Nov  3 09:32:23 2007
From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:32:23 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off-Topic: FPL Group
	criticizes	Warner-Lieberman
In-Reply-To: <84a57a420711022057j8af6475j499787a1016fc38a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84a57a420711022057j8af6475j499787a1016fc38a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472C8677.3020209@theforestfoundation.org>

"include a clear safety valve"

That smells of loop hole, if not properly designed.

The biggest problem is we are tackling symptoms not disease. We need 
transformative economic policy that gets the price right and levels the 
playing field.

What we get under our current democracy is pork.


John Bonitz wrote:
> FPL Group, Inc.
> Corporate Communications
> Media Line: (305) 552-3888
> November 2, 2007
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
> FPL Group Chairman calls climate bill
> "Well-intentioned but fundamentally flawed"
>
> JUNO BEACH, Fla. ? A climate change bill approved by a Senate
> subcommittee Thursday would reward the country's biggest emitters of
> carbon dioxide and fails to provide a reliable mechanism to prevent
> possible massive economic damage, the head of one of the country's
> largest electric power companies said today.
> "I acknowledge and applaud the willingness of key senators to try and
> address the important issue of global climate change. Unfortunately,
> the bill they have proposed, if left unchanged, would reward the
> country's biggest emitters of carbon dioxide with billions of dollars
> of free allowances that they don't need.  Moreover, the bill contains
> no clear 'safety valve,' to ensure that we don't inadvertently damage
> the economy," said Lewis Hay, III, Chairman and CEO of FPL Group Inc.
> (NYSE: FPL), which operates the country's largest wind and solar power
> generating facilities. His comments came after a subcommittee of the
> Senate Environment and Public Works Committee voted 4-3 to move the
> America's Climate Security Act (S. 2191) to the full committee for
> hearings and a markup.
>
> Hay, noting that his company is a strong proponent of mandatory
> climate change legislation, said he appreciated the hard work that the
> measure's sponsors, Senators Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) and John Warner
> (R-VA), and their staffs had put into the effort.
>
> However, he pointed out that the bill as drafted provides generous
> quantities of free allowances to companies that are the biggest
> emitters of carbon dioxide, the major greenhouse gas, and that have
> done little to improve their generating fleets' emissions profiles.
> "If allowances are to be given away, they should be given away fairly,
> treating every kilowatt-hour the same," Hay said.  "It makes no sense
> to give the biggest emitters a disproportionate share of the
> allowances.  That's like giving a bigger rebate to those of us who
> dump the most trash on our sidewalks," he said.  "We have said all
> along that giving away allowances is problematic, because it leads
> inevitably to a political food fight. Unfortunately, this draft
> legislation just illustrates our concern."
>
> Hay also expressed concerns over the bill's provisions for controlling
> costs.  "Industry and consumers alike need assurance that the costs of
> addressing climate change will be manageable.  A well-defined 'safety
> valve' mechanism is a must.  Unfortunately, the bill proposes an
> elaborate and murky new bureaucracy that will provide anything but
> clarity and reassurance," he said.  "Climate change is a long-term
> problem and requires a long-term solution.  We should not run the risk
> of wrecking our economy in a misguided effort to try and address it
> too quickly.  Any legislation has to provide a sound mechanism to keep
> that from happening."
>
> Hay went on to say, "I fully agree with the overall goal of the
> legislation. We need to enact a mandatory, economy-wide program that
> slows the growth of carbon emissions and ultimately reverses the
> trend. But we must take the time to get it right.  Compromising on key
> provisions, like giving away allowances to the biggest emitters or
> failing to include a clear safety valve, is not the way to start."
>
> FPL Group, with annual revenues of nearly $16 billion, is nationally
> known as a high quality, efficient, and customer-driven organization
> focused on energy-related products and services. With a growing
> presence in 27 states, it is widely recognized as one of the country's
> premier power companies. Its principal subsidiary, Florida Power &
> Light Company, serves 4.5 million customer accounts in Florida.  FPL
> Energy, LLC, an FPL Group competitive energy subsidiary, is a leader
> in producing electricity from clean and renewable fuels.  Additional
> information is available on the Internet at www.FPLGroup.com
> <http://www.fplgroup.com/> , www.FPL.com <http://www.fpl.com/>  and
> www.FPLEnergy.com <http://www.fplenergy.com/> .
>
>
> ~ ~ ~
>
> John Bonitz,
> Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
> Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
> PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
> Phone: 919-545-2920
> Mobile: 919-360-2492
> bonitz at cleanenergy.org
>
>
> Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices
> that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and
> healthy communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
> http://www.cleanenergy.org.
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>
>   

From marc at carolinabiofuels.org  Sat Nov  3 09:42:12 2007
From: marc at carolinabiofuels.org (Marc Dreyfors)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:42:12 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] [Fwd: BBC E-mail: Biofuel rush harmful,
	Oxfam warns]
Message-ID: <472C88C4.6090708@carolinabiofuels.org>

** Biofuel rush harmful, Oxfam warns **

The rush to cash in on EU biofuel demands could destroy the livelihoods of farmers in developing countries, the charity says.
< http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/7072386.stm >


** BBC Daily E-mail **
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in one daily e-mail
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From pdowker at mac.com  Sat Nov  3 08:54:43 2007
From: pdowker at mac.com (Peter Dowker)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 09:54:43 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off-Topic: FPL Group	criticizes
	Warner-Lieberman
In-Reply-To: <472C8677.3020209@theforestfoundation.org>
References: <84a57a420711022057j8af6475j499787a1016fc38a@mail.gmail.com>
	<472C8677.3020209@theforestfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <23D3A4E9-98FD-43E5-8E32-5307FEF3F1C0@mac.com>

America has the best government money can buy.

Peter Dowker

The price of freedom of religion, or of speech, or of the press, is  
that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish. - Robert Jackson


On 3-Nov-07, at 10:32 AM, Info -TFF wrote:

> "include a clear safety valve"
>
> That smells of loop hole, if not properly designed.
>
> The biggest problem is we are tackling symptoms not disease. We need
> transformative economic policy that gets the price right and levels  
> the
> playing field.
>
> What we get under our current democracy is pork.
>
>
> John Bonitz wrote:
>> FPL Group, Inc.
>> Corporate Communications
>> Media Line: (305) 552-3888
>> November 2, 2007
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>> FPL Group Chairman calls climate bill
>> "Well-intentioned but fundamentally flawed"
>>
>> JUNO BEACH, Fla. ? A climate change bill approved by a Senate
>> subcommittee Thursday would reward the country's biggest emitters of
>> carbon dioxide and fails to provide a reliable mechanism to prevent
>> possible massive economic damage, the head of one of the country's
>> largest electric power companies said today.
>> "I acknowledge and applaud the willingness of key senators to try and
>> address the important issue of global climate change. Unfortunately,
>> the bill they have proposed, if left unchanged, would reward the
>> country's biggest emitters of carbon dioxide with billions of dollars
>> of free allowances that they don't need.  Moreover, the bill contains
>> no clear 'safety valve,' to ensure that we don't inadvertently damage
>> the economy," said Lewis Hay, III, Chairman and CEO of FPL Group Inc.
>> (NYSE: FPL), which operates the country's largest wind and solar  
>> power
>> generating facilities. His comments came after a subcommittee of the
>> Senate Environment and Public Works Committee voted 4-3 to move the
>> America's Climate Security Act (S. 2191) to the full committee for
>> hearings and a markup.
>>
>> Hay, noting that his company is a strong proponent of mandatory
>> climate change legislation, said he appreciated the hard work that  
>> the
>> measure's sponsors, Senators Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) and John Warner
>> (R-VA), and their staffs had put into the effort.
>>
>> However, he pointed out that the bill as drafted provides generous
>> quantities of free allowances to companies that are the biggest
>> emitters of carbon dioxide, the major greenhouse gas, and that have
>> done little to improve their generating fleets' emissions profiles.
>> "If allowances are to be given away, they should be given away  
>> fairly,
>> treating every kilowatt-hour the same," Hay said.  "It makes no sense
>> to give the biggest emitters a disproportionate share of the
>> allowances.  That's like giving a bigger rebate to those of us who
>> dump the most trash on our sidewalks," he said.  "We have said all
>> along that giving away allowances is problematic, because it leads
>> inevitably to a political food fight. Unfortunately, this draft
>> legislation just illustrates our concern."
>>
>> Hay also expressed concerns over the bill's provisions for  
>> controlling
>> costs.  "Industry and consumers alike need assurance that the costs  
>> of
>> addressing climate change will be manageable.  A well-defined 'safety
>> valve' mechanism is a must.  Unfortunately, the bill proposes an
>> elaborate and murky new bureaucracy that will provide anything but
>> clarity and reassurance," he said.  "Climate change is a long-term
>> problem and requires a long-term solution.  We should not run the  
>> risk
>> of wrecking our economy in a misguided effort to try and address it
>> too quickly.  Any legislation has to provide a sound mechanism to  
>> keep
>> that from happening."
>>
>> Hay went on to say, "I fully agree with the overall goal of the
>> legislation. We need to enact a mandatory, economy-wide program that
>> slows the growth of carbon emissions and ultimately reverses the
>> trend. But we must take the time to get it right.  Compromising on  
>> key
>> provisions, like giving away allowances to the biggest emitters or
>> failing to include a clear safety valve, is not the way to start."
>>
>> FPL Group, with annual revenues of nearly $16 billion, is nationally
>> known as a high quality, efficient, and customer-driven organization
>> focused on energy-related products and services. With a growing
>> presence in 27 states, it is widely recognized as one of the  
>> country's
>> premier power companies. Its principal subsidiary, Florida Power &
>> Light Company, serves 4.5 million customer accounts in Florida.  FPL
>> Energy, LLC, an FPL Group competitive energy subsidiary, is a leader
>> in producing electricity from clean and renewable fuels.  Additional
>> information is available on the Internet at www.FPLGroup.com
>> <http://www.fplgroup.com/> , www.FPL.com <http://www.fpl.com/>  and
>> www.FPLEnergy.com <http://www.fplenergy.com/> .
>>
>>
>> ~ ~ ~
>>
>> John Bonitz,
>> Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
>> Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
>> PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
>> Phone: 919-545-2920
>> Mobile: 919-360-2492
>> bonitz at cleanenergy.org
>>
>>
>> Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy  
>> choices
>> that create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and
>> healthy communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
>> http://www.cleanenergy.org.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group


From mattr at biofuels.coop  Sat Nov  3 11:53:12 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:53:12 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] New markets developing for alternative
	crops such as camelina
Message-ID: <5344FB74-AD35-4FBD-A736-D0CEF53B2E1D@biofuels.coop>

GLASGOW, Mont. - Farmers may find more valuable markets for their  
alternative crops in the culinary or cosmetics industries than in the  
fuel industry.
While biodiesel production is important to Montana, the cosmetic and  
culinary markets may be more lucrative for producers growing camelina  
sativa, a member of the mustard family, according to Alice Pilgeram  
of Montana State University.

http://www.theprairiestar.com/articles/2007/10/26/ag_news/ 
farm_and_field/field11.txt


From CapeBobHolt at comcast.net  Sat Nov  3 11:56:43 2007
From: CapeBobHolt at comcast.net (Robert R. Holt)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:56:43 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 28,
	Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23875.1194096485.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
References: <mailman.23875.1194096485.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
Message-ID: <1B54BA82-9C8E-46BE-8DE9-DFCB82B37FFC@comcast.net>

  You put out an interesting newsletter, from which I have learned a  
lot.  One suggestion, which would make it a lot more readable and  
less frustrating: when you put a submission into the next  
aggregation, PLEASE first strip out all of the previously posted  
stuff from each person's new input.  Most of today's issue was such  
repetition, complete with blue bars down the left margin.  It's no  
big deal to delete all that before adding the real new input.

Thanks,

Bob Holt
Truro Energy Committee


From mattr at biofuels.coop  Sat Nov  3 12:00:27 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:00:27 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] OEMs profits won't be hit by new CAFE
	rules - report
Message-ID: <0590353B-F760-4F0C-8051-D0AABF5F3022@biofuels.coop>

1 November 2007 | Source: just-auto.com editorial team

A report from the bank Citigroup released this week has found that  
corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) provisions being set by the US  
Senate for 2020 are achievable and that vehicle manufacturers can  
still make profits at this level.

A bill recently passed by the Senate is targeting an average fuel  
economy of 35mpg by 2020. Vehicle manufacturers have been lobbying  
against the change in the legislation, which is the first change to  
CAFE rules in 30 years, and represents a 10mpg improvement over  
previous legislation.

The chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Energy Independence  
and Global Warming, Edward Markey, reacted forcefully to the report.  
He said, "When you have the world's number one bank, which has  
financial ties to many major automakers, saying fuel economy  
standards are a good economic play, it drives a stake through the  
heart of the auto industry's scare tactics."

The report, "CAFE and the US Auto Industry; A Growing Auto Investor  
Issue, 2012-2020", was created in partnership with Ceres and the  
Investor Network on Climate Risk, along with industry experts at the  
Planning Edge, University of Michigan Transportation Research  
Institute, and NRDC.

GM is expected to be the major winner from the legislation, while  
Chrysler is forecast to be the loser. The report estimates that the  
market for fuel savings technology needs to grow by around US$4.3bn  
by 2012 to meet the new standards, and by more beyond that. Key  
beneficiaries of this growth include BorgWarner, Johnson_Controls and  
Tenneco.

According to a press release from the House Select Committee on  
Energy Independence and Global Warming, the Senate bill, which  
contains the 35 mpg fuel economy standard and other oil saving  
provisions, would save more than twice as much oil as the US  
currently imports from the Middle East by 2030.


From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Sat Nov  3 18:53:40 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:53:40 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] [Fwd: BBC E-mail: Biofuel rush
	harmful, Oxfam warns]
Message-ID: <20071103.195340.3746.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com>

Indonesia and Malaysia produce about 85% of the global production of Palm Oil (15 mmt each), which presently is the only feedstock that meets the EN standard for stability (Iodine #) and is legal to import. ( Canola also meets the standard, but because it is a genetically modified species, no oil from Canola can be imported to the EU. Another of their regulations) 
It is generally believed that widespread devastation to the rain forests in these countries has occured in order to plant palm trees. The governments of both countries claim they have safegaurds to prevent this, but data suggests otherwise. 
Some in the EU Parliament have called for a ban on Palm Oil imported from these areas, but it has not been enacted. The EU probably cannot meet its fossil CO2 reduction goals without importing feedstock from these equatorial countries. 
Hell of a mess were in Huh!

-Rich Cregar 


From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Sun Nov  4 18:45:43 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:45:43 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!
Message-ID: <20071104.184543.3035.2@webmail15.dca.untd.com>

A little birdie (a friend in the oil business) has warned me to expect at least a 30-40 cent/gal increase in gasoline by December. He said $4.00/gal gas now appears likely in the near term. Mostly this is the pass through for  $96.00/bbl oil coming down the pipeline. Just a heads up, for what it is worth.

--Rich Cregar


From kcfoxie at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 09:26:35 2007
From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:26:35 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!
In-Reply-To: <20071104.184543.3035.2@webmail15.dca.untd.com>
References: <20071104.184543.3035.2@webmail15.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1bb86e040711050626p2d11eec9lf5b28c6b082d002d@mail.gmail.com>

Diesel is 3.25 at most stops I've seen in Raleigh. The extra quarter
is becoming really negotiable in regards to where the fuel comes from,
even to the nay-sayers of the biofuel movement.

On 11/4/07, rudolfdiesel at netzero.net <rudolfdiesel at netzero.net> wrote:
> A little birdie (a friend in the oil business) has warned me to expect at least a 30-40 cent/gal increase in gasoline by December. He said $4.00/gal gas now appears likely in the near term. Mostly this is the pass through for  $96.00/bbl oil coming down the pipeline. Just a heads up, for what it is worth.
>
> --Rich Cregar
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From kcfoxie at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 09:29:17 2007
From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:29:17 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
In-Reply-To: <001e01c81e26$ac870720$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>
References: <20071102.123321.26516.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>
	<c6d151100711021242j47997258h5bcdcf2a7fcc9ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<001701c81da9$bebbb3f0$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>
	<001e01c81e26$ac870720$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>
Message-ID: <1bb86e040711050629u62caf4f8iddc3a9fcd01d667c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Joe,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the chicken fat give a
slightly better fuel than waste veggie oil? I know the type of oil
will greatly affect the fuel product, but I was under the impression
that while it gels the quickest, chicken/animal fats are the best
sources for biodiesel.

Thanks,

Chris
Omnivore / Chipped 06 Jetta, B70 powered.

On 11/3/07, Joe & Ashlyn <ashbshaw at nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the rude change of subject in my last email, the software would
> not let me send something out on my on.
>
> As far as Piedmont Biodiesel Industrial I would like to work with people in
> our co-op to help change the PBI feedstock from chicken waste to more veggie
> oil over time. I plan to make my own veggie fuel with PBC and work in anyway
> I can to support the co-op now and in the future.
>
> Thanks, Joe Hayes
> Vegan In Raleigh
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe & Ashlyn" <ashbshaw at nc.rr.com>
> To: "Tim Victor" <timvictor at gmail.com>;
> <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
>
>
> > That was interesting, changing the subject. Do most co-op members know
> > that
> > they are pumping chicken fat waste at the Piedmont Biodiesel Pumps?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Victor" <timvictor at gmail.com>
> > To: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
> > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing
> > whatDetroit says is impossible"
> >
> >
> >> Steve Rankin wrote:
> >>> I've always wondered if looking into German 1930s and WWII studies
> >>> on alternative fuels would be beneficial... perhaps someone already has?
> >>
> >> Yes, much. In 1979 Jimmy Carter said: "Beginning this moment, this nation
> >> will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977 -- never. From now
> >> on,
> >> every new addition to our demand for energy will be met from our own
> >> production and our own conservation. The generation-long growth in our
> >> dependence on foreign oil will be stopped dead in its tracks right now
> >> and
> >> then reversed as we move through the 1980s..."
> >>
> >> http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0503-22.htm
> >>
> >> Uh-huh... A moderately ambition synthetic fuels program was established
> >> by the Synthetic Fuels Corporation Act of 1980, which was quietly killed
> >> by Ronald Reagan in the 1985 (see Wikipedia) after a conveniently
> >> engineered
> >> war between Iraq and Iran created an international oil glut. Oh, and it
> >> also
> >> cost the lives of over a million men and boys on each side.
> >>
> >> Actually more interesting to study at this point is the work--way more
> >> than studies, actual high-volume industrial production--done in the 80s
> >> and 90s in South Africa, another international pariah at the time because
> >> of their apartheid policies.
> >>
> >> For instance:
> >> http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/presentations/acs2001_chicago/chic_slide01.htm
> >>
> >> This is really attractive stuff and they're sitting pretty right now. It
> >> has
> >> high cetane number and zero sulfur content. The state of Montana
> >> is investing heavily in it, among many, to take advantage of their large
> >> coal reserves.
> >>
> >>
> >> Rich Cregar wrote:
> >>> By the end of the war, Germany was running on coal and wood.
> >>> The coal was gassified using the F-T process (developed in the
> >>> early 20's) to produce diesel fuel, and many passenger cars were
> >>> equipped with an onboard gassification unit. Basically they made
> >>> charcoal in an anaerobic tank mounted on the rear bumper. they
> >>> filled it up with wood and got it burning. The gases coming off the
> >>> wood were collected at the top of the tank and routed thru a hose
> >>> to the carburetor and inducted into the engine through a mixer not
> >>> unlike early LPG systems. He said the car ran terrible, but it ran
> >>> and could not go much faster than 30 MPH. It was still better than
> >>> walking. You can see these devices on cars in wartime photos.
> >>
> >> There's a whole online book about it here:
> >>
> >> http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml
> >>
> >> _Construction of a Simplified Wood Gas Generator for Fueling
> >> Internal Combustion Engines in a Petroleum Emergency_
> >>
> >> Peace,
> >>
> >> Tim Victor
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> > Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com  Mon Nov  5 09:37:01 2007
From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:37:01 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
In-Reply-To: <1bb86e040711050629u62caf4f8iddc3a9fcd01d667c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071102.123321.26516.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>	<c6d151100711021242j47997258h5bcdcf2a7fcc9ba9@mail.gmail.com>	<001701c81da9$bebbb3f0$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>	<001e01c81e26$ac870720$020fa8c0@josephnwhv0mhh>
	<1bb86e040711050629u62caf4f8iddc3a9fcd01d667c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472F2A8D.8070006@localb100.com>

In terms of oxidative stability and cetane, yes, animal fats are great.
Also, saturated fats increase NOx less than other oils do.

 I think there might be one more metric by which it's a good fuel-
energy content maybe? I'm not sure about the last one.

Mark

Chris Browder wrote:
> Hi Joe,
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the chicken fat give a
> slightly better fuel than waste veggie oil? I know the type of oil
> will greatly affect the fuel product, but I was under the impression
> that while it gels the quickest, chicken/animal fats are the best
> sources for biodiesel.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
> Omnivore / Chipped 06 Jetta, B70 powered.
>
> On 11/3/07, Joe & Ashlyn <ashbshaw at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>   
>> Sorry for the rude change of subject in my last email, the software would
>> not let me send something out on my on.
>>
>> As far as Piedmont Biodiesel Industrial I would like to work with people in
>> our co-op to help change the PBI feedstock from chicken waste to more veggie
>> oil over time. I plan to make my own veggie fuel with PBC and work in anyway
>> I can to support the co-op now and in the future.
>>
>> Thanks, Joe Hayes
>> Vegan In Raleigh
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe & Ashlyn" <ashbshaw at nc.rr.com>
>> To: "Tim Victor" <timvictor at gmail.com>;
>> <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
>>
>>
>>     
>>> That was interesting, changing the subject. Do most co-op members know
>>> that
>>> they are pumping chicken fat waste at the Piedmont Biodiesel Pumps?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tim Victor" <timvictor at gmail.com>
>>> To: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] interesting article: "Doing
>>> whatDetroit says is impossible"
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Steve Rankin wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> I've always wondered if looking into German 1930s and WWII studies
>>>>> on alternative fuels would be beneficial... perhaps someone already has?
>>>>>           
>>>> Yes, much. In 1979 Jimmy Carter said: "Beginning this moment, this nation
>>>> will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977 -- never. From now
>>>> on,
>>>> every new addition to our demand for energy will be met from our own
>>>> production and our own conservation. The generation-long growth in our
>>>> dependence on foreign oil will be stopped dead in its tracks right now
>>>> and
>>>> then reversed as we move through the 1980s..."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0503-22.htm
>>>>
>>>> Uh-huh... A moderately ambition synthetic fuels program was established
>>>> by the Synthetic Fuels Corporation Act of 1980, which was quietly killed
>>>> by Ronald Reagan in the 1985 (see Wikipedia) after a conveniently
>>>> engineered
>>>> war between Iraq and Iran created an international oil glut. Oh, and it
>>>> also
>>>> cost the lives of over a million men and boys on each side.
>>>>
>>>> Actually more interesting to study at this point is the work--way more
>>>> than studies, actual high-volume industrial production--done in the 80s
>>>> and 90s in South Africa, another international pariah at the time because
>>>> of their apartheid policies.
>>>>
>>>> For instance:
>>>> http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/presentations/acs2001_chicago/chic_slide01.htm
>>>>
>>>> This is really attractive stuff and they're sitting pretty right now. It
>>>> has
>>>> high cetane number and zero sulfur content. The state of Montana
>>>> is investing heavily in it, among many, to take advantage of their large
>>>> coal reserves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rich Cregar wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> By the end of the war, Germany was running on coal and wood.
>>>>> The coal was gassified using the F-T process (developed in the
>>>>> early 20's) to produce diesel fuel, and many passenger cars were
>>>>> equipped with an onboard gassification unit. Basically they made
>>>>> charcoal in an anaerobic tank mounted on the rear bumper. they
>>>>> filled it up with wood and got it burning. The gases coming off the
>>>>> wood were collected at the top of the tank and routed thru a hose
>>>>> to the carburetor and inducted into the engine through a mixer not
>>>>> unlike early LPG systems. He said the car ran terrible, but it ran
>>>>> and could not go much faster than 30 MPH. It was still better than
>>>>> walking. You can see these devices on cars in wartime photos.
>>>>>           
>>>> There's a whole online book about it here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml
>>>>
>>>> _Construction of a Simplified Wood Gas Generator for Fueling
>>>> Internal Combustion Engines in a Petroleum Emergency_
>>>>
>>>> Peace,
>>>>
>>>> Tim Victor
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>   

From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Mon Nov  5 10:34:37 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:34:37 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
Message-ID: <20071105.103437.12784.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com>

Energy content is higher in animal fats because they contain more hydrogen. ( due to saturation) The ration of hydrogen to carbon determines the energy density of fuel. Of course, since pure hydrogen has no carbon, its ratio is zero. thus, by weight, Hydrogen has the highest energy density of any fuel.


From mapmantx at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  5 11:43:15 2007
From: mapmantx at yahoo.com (John Hollingsworth)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 08:43:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24000.1194272527.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
Message-ID: <707607.15511.qm@web55303.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Back in May, I posted a message about what our co-op's
response would be to petrodiesel prices north of
$3.50.  There was no action on that thread then.
 
I'll fess up and say that along with my eco-ethics the
main force driving my decision to go with B100 and
support this co-op is that I believe that Peak Oil is
real and I want to mitigate its eventual havoc.  To
quote Cypress Hill, "When the shit goes down, you'd
better be ready".
 
It would be comforting to know that those of us that
pay $3.50 year-round will be protected against fuel
outages during the upcoming price increases.  Is this
unrealistic?  Am I alone in feeling this way?
 
Is anyone interested now?  If not, how's the view of
the subterranian sand?
 
John Hollingsworth

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:45:43 GMT
From: "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net"
<rudolfdiesel at netzero.net>
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel
prices!

A little birdie (a friend in the oil business) has
warned me to expect at least a 30-40 cent/gal increase
in gasoline by December.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Mon Nov  5 11:05:55 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:05:55 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off-Topic: Sen. Dole's op-ed on ACSA and
	global warming
In-Reply-To: <C354B0ED.186E%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>
Message-ID: <C354B7A3.1875%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

Friends,

Here is Sen Dole?s explanation of her support for climate change policy.
Below the op-ed is a SACE press release on the subject.  We applaud her
leadership and urge that ACSA be strengthened by increasing pollution
reduction targets and by auctioning 100% of the pollution credits.

To contact Dole to thank her, and to contact Sen Burr to urge his support,
the following info is provided.

Burr:
Winston-Salem Office
Phone: (800) 685-8916
Phone: (336) 631-5125
Fax: (336) 725-4493
Washington, DC Office
Phone: (202) 224-3154
Fax: (202) 228-2981

Dole:
Raleigh Office:
Ph: 919.856.4630
Toll Free: 866.420.6083
Fax: 919.856.4053
Washington Office
Ph: 202.224.6342
Fax: 202.224.1100
Salisbury Office:
Ph: 704.633.5011
Toll Free: 866.420.6084
Fax: 704.633.2937
Hendersonville Office:
Fax: 828.698.1267
Greenville Office:
Ph: 252.329.1093
Fax: 252.329.1097

If you are in another state, look-up your reps here:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
And your Senators here:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Please do take a moment to contact them.  The oil companies and coal
interests certainly will.

Sincerely,

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org




Charlotte Observer
Op-Ed: Needed: cap-and-trade plan
Congress should use market to combat global warming
By SEN. ELIZABETH DOLE, Special to The Observer
 
Although debates continue over global warming, its causes and its impact,
the consensus in the scientific community is that Earth is getting warmer
and the emission of greenhouse gases, namely carbon dioxide, or CO2, is
largely to blame. American leaders have a responsibility to future
generations to address this problem in a way that not only cleans our air,
land and water, but also strengthens our economy, competitiveness and
security.
 
The burning of fossil fuels such as oil, coal, and gas emits CO2 and other
greenhouse gases, which adds too much to the earth's natural carbon cycle
and traps more heat within the atmosphere. Today's CO2 levels are higher
than ever, well above any period of time in earth's history, and the
dramatic increase has taken place during our lifetime.
 
The cost of climate change
 
The predicted negative ramifications of global warming could initiate a
chain-reaction of events -- such as severe drought or floods that diminish
food supply and displace millions of people. Or, take for example the effect
of melting ice caps and glaciers on sea level, which is rising as the
earth's temperature increases. According to a report prepared by scholars at
North Carolina universities, the losses in property value, recreation and
tourism due to sea level rise is estimated at nearly $11 billion beginning
in 2030 in New Hanover, Dare, Carteret and Bertie Counties alone.
 
After careful analysis and deliberation, I decided to cosponsor bipartisan
legislation that confronts pollution and global warming head on by reducing
the emissions of the electric power, manufacturing and transportation
sectors, which together generate about 75 percent of the nation's emissions.
 
The bill, America's Climate Security Act, sets emission allowances starting
in 2012 through 2050 for specific sectors and provides a framework for
businesses to trade or bank unused allowances. Conversely, polluters that
exceed their limit can buy or borrow leftover allowances from other sectors
or auction. This is what is called a "cap and trade" system, and allowance
amounts will decrease over time, thereby lowering total emissions.
 
The goal is to spur businesses to take leadership and develop technologies
that will improve efficiency and reduce emissions. ACSA is projected to
reduce total greenhouse gas emissions by 15 percent below the 2005 level in
2020 and 70 percent below the 2005 level in 2050. Small businesses,
commercial buildings and homes are exempt under the bill.
 
There are a number of proposals, including other cap and trade plans, that
purport to best address the climate change issue; however, America's Climate
Security Act does so without harming America's economy. It uses the market
-- not big government and tax increases -- to solve the problem at the
lowest possible cost.
 
Instituting a responsible cap and trade system will provide American
businesses with the certainty they require to make sound investments for the
future. ACSA establishes a Carbon Market Efficiency Board, which will
function in a manner similar to the Federal Reserve Board and ensure that
implementation of the system is not causing harm to the economy.
 
ACSA is expected to create a clean energy sector as well as many thousands
of related jobs. By encouraging new technologies and alternative sources of
energy, it will help reduce our dependence on oil from unstable parts of the
world. This bill also provides opportunities for North Carolina's
agriculture sector, which is not included under the cap, by rewarding
farmers for reducing greenhouse gas emissions through low-carbon practices,
such as no-till farming.
 
In addition, the legislation provides a safeguard especially important to
North Carolina, where many of our industries have faced challenges from
global competition. ACSA includes a mechanism to induce nations such as
China and India to reduce their emissions or face penalties when importing
products into the United States.
 
Inaction isn't an option
 
If we are complacent, our children and grandchildren very well may face
disastrous and irreversible environmental and economic consequences.
 
The Stern Review, the leading analysis of the economic aspects of climate
change conducted by Sir Nicholas Stern, head of the U.K. Government Economic
Service and former chief economist at the World Bank, estimates that the
monetary cost of inaction is equivalent to losing at least 5 percent, or
$2.4 trillion, of global gross domestic product each year. In North Carolina
and throughout the Southeast, these costs are caused by extreme events such
as coastal flooding, persistent drought, diminished agricultural yields and
increased energy use.
 
For the first time, there is significant common-ground to build upon to
address global warming in an economically responsible way. Now is the time
for solutions -- not inaction. We must reverse pollution and global warming
while we have the chance.
 
Elizabeth Dole, a Republican, is North Carolina's senior U.S. Senator.
Contact her at http://dole.senate.gov/ or 555 Dirksen Senate Office
Building.

************************************

October 19, 2007
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 
Contact: Ulla Reeves, Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, 828-254-6776
 
Group Applauds Dole?s Support of Climate Security Act
North Carolina Senator?s Overdue on Global Warming Leadership
 
Asheville, NC ? The Southern Alliance for Clean Energy applauds the
announcement from Senator Elizabeth Dole?s office (R-NC) that she is an
original cosponsor of America?s Climate Security Act (ACSA).
 
Senator Dole is the only Southeastern Senator to join the bill introduced
yesterday by Senators Lieberman (I-Connecticut) and Warner (R-Virginia).
Other cosponsors include Senators Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland), Norm Coleman
(R-Minnesota), Susan Collins (R-Maine), and Tom Harkin (D-Iowa).
 
?We have anxiously awaited Senator Dole?s leadership in addressing global
warming pollution,? Jennifer Rennicks, federal policy coordinator for
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy stated. ?Her support of this bill
demonstrates a commitment to protect North Carolinians and our state from
the impacts of global warming.?
 
While the bill offers real, verifiable reductions of global warming
pollution, it does fall short of the reduction targets recommended by
scientists for climate stabilization.  Under the bill, global warming
pollution must be reduced 2% every year until 2050 to achieve a 70%
reduction from 2005 levels.  The bill protects the economy by creating a cap
and trade market system that sets limits on carbon dioxide, but allows
emitters to buy and sell pollution credits.
 
The bill can be strengthened by increasing pollution reduction targets and
by auctioning the pollution credits. About 25% of the nation?s global
warming pollution sources are also missing from the bill and need to be
added.
 
?We support 100% auctions of pollution credits in order to generate income
to encourage clean energy industries while helping economically
disadvantaged people transition in a carbon-constrained economy,? Rennicks
said. 
 
The group also encouraged Senator Richard Burr to address the serious issue
of global warming urgently by cosponsoring this or similar legislation.
 

~ ~ ~

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org


Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that
create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy
communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
http://www.cleanenergy.org.



From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Mon Nov  5 11:37:16 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:37:16 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] PLEASE edit posts for brevity and to
	avoid duplication
Message-ID: <C354BEFC.1877%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

Friends,

As another subscriber recently requested, please edit your posts for brevity
and to avoid duplication of listserv content.

If we've all already received it once, we only need to see it again if you
are commenting directly on prior text.  So, if you are responding /
replying, before you hit send, please scroll to the end of your reply and
delete the previously-posted text.  In other words, don't send everyone a
bunch of junk at the tail-end of your own message.

This is really simple to do, saves electrons, and makes it much more
pleasant for everyone on the list.

Thanks,

John
(co-moderator of the list)



From timvictor at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 12:38:50 2007
From: timvictor at gmail.com (Tim Victor)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:38:50 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
In-Reply-To: <c6d151100711050937y49238720w62f4a028c21fb077@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071105.103437.12784.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com>
	<c6d151100711050937y49238720w62f4a028c21fb077@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c6d151100711050938j3a303c49ma4277766c3e75300@mail.gmail.com>

Meant to send this to the list, not just rudolfdiesel. --Tim

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tim Victor
Date: Nov 5, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat

On 11/5/07, rudolfdieselwrote:
> Energy content is higher in animal fats because they contain more hydrogen.
> ( due to saturation) The ration of hydrogen to carbon determines the energy
> density of fuel. Of course, since pure hydrogen has no carbon, its ratio is
> zero. thus, by weight, Hydrogen has the highest energy density of any fuel.

Good technical point and interesting stuff. However I don't think that that
was the what Joe was commenting on. He made a point of identifying
himself as a vegan, so I gather that it was more about not using animal
products than technical issues with the fuel.

Not particularly sympathetic to chickens myself (vegetables with legs)
but I think that's what he was getting at.

Peace,

Tim Victor

From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Mon Nov  5 11:42:04 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:42:04 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biobutanol
Message-ID: <C354C01C.1879%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

http://www.pr-inside.com/bp-hopes-to-have-butanol-available-r283551.htm

2007-11-05 15:41:17 -

In an attempt to enter the ethanol market, BP and DuPont are trying to
develop a more sophisticated type of fuel alcohol, called butanol. BP says
it is meant to overcome some of the drawbacks of ethanol such as limited
mileage, water attraction and limited blending in standard vehicles.
Although its properties are promising, it's still in the development phase
with several years of research ahead.

When confronted with the question when butanol could be commercially
available, Philip New, President of BP Biofuels, says 'he wants to avoid
setting expectations that are inappropriate on the basis of cutting edge
biotech.- But in a interview with Ethanol Statistics, Mr. New said 'we (BP)
have our targets, but I hope that we will have butanol available on a
commercial scale, before we have cellulosic ethanol on an economically sound
basis.-

The comment was made at the end of an interview that covered BP's recent
joint venture with DuPont and Associated British Foods for the construction
of a 420 million litres per year ethanol plant in Hull, UK. When asked for
BP's renewed interest for biofuels, Mr. New said that 'BP believes that
biofuels could represent as much as 30% of the fuels mix in 25 years time.
As one of the main players in the industry, we have a choice: Either we do
nothing and potentially lose access to a third of the market, or we try to
participate in the biofuels value chain.-
?




From wrenchwench at blast.com  Mon Nov  5 12:47:54 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:47:54 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Central Virginia Business: Biodiesel
	arrives in area
Message-ID: <F26978BC-966C-4D5E-A167-1027FF1C9363@blast.com>

Link to the story : http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite? 
pagename=LNA/MGArticle/ 
LNA_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173353269677&path=

An increasingly popular fuel, biodiesel promises decreased dependence  
on foreign oil and cleaner air. Two companies in Central Virginia are  
now trying to bring those benefits closer to home.
Premium Biodiesel One on Carroll Avenue opened in Lynchburg on Oct.  
1. Owned by two brothers, the company is one of the first to retail  
biodiesel in the city.
Foster Fuels added biodiesel to its product line in February when the  
company moved its base of operations to Brookneal, in southern  
Campbell County.

From biodiesel at yovo.info  Mon Nov  5 13:33:31 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:33:31 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
In-Reply-To: <c6d151100711050938j3a303c49ma4277766c3e75300@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071105.103437.12784.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com>	<c6d151100711050937y49238720w62f4a028c21fb077@mail.gmail.com>
	<c6d151100711050938j3a303c49ma4277766c3e75300@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472F61FB.2090900@yovo.info>

Not real sure what the guiding principles for veganism are, but from a 
bio-ethical standpoint I would argue that using an existing wastestream 
from chicken production is more ethical than using virgin oil 
(especially soy). This issue ties nicely into the "food vs. fuel" debate.

Personally, I am very sympathetic to vegetarianism, but the chicken 
juice from Piedmont is not driving demand for dead chickens. I think 
that's an important distinction.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen


Tim Victor wrote:

> 
> Good technical point and interesting stuff. However I don't think that that
> was the what Joe was commenting on. He made a point of identifying
> himself as a vegan, so I gather that it was more about not using animal
> products than technical issues with the fuel.
> 

From info at theforestfoundation.org  Mon Nov  5 13:33:55 2007
From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:33:55 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
In-Reply-To: <c6d151100711050938j3a303c49ma4277766c3e75300@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071105.103437.12784.0@webmail15.dca.untd.com>
	<c6d151100711050937y49238720w62f4a028c21fb077@mail.gmail.com>
	<c6d151100711050938j3a303c49ma4277766c3e75300@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472F6213.3080600@theforestfoundation.org>

If we really want to cut CO2 emissions, we need to eat less meat, as 
meat production may be greater in CO2 emissions than all our transport 
combustion ...but then where do we get our feedstock....conundrum??!! 

Many questions, simple is better.

Tim Victor wrote:
> Meant to send this to the list, not just rudolfdiesel. --Tim
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tim Victor
> Date: Nov 5, 2007 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Members are pumping chicken fat
>
> On 11/5/07, rudolfdieselwrote:
>   
>> Energy content is higher in animal fats because they contain more hydrogen.
>> ( due to saturation) The ration of hydrogen to carbon determines the energy
>> density of fuel. Of course, since pure hydrogen has no carbon, its ratio is
>> zero. thus, by weight, Hydrogen has the highest energy density of any fuel.
>>     
>
> Good technical point and interesting stuff. However I don't think that that
> was the what Joe was commenting on. He made a point of identifying
> himself as a vegan, so I gather that it was more about not using animal
> products than technical issues with the fuel.
>
> Not particularly sympathetic to chickens myself (vegetables with legs)
> but I think that's what he was getting at.
>
> Peace,
>
> Tim Victor
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>
>   

From markj.ambrose at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 13:37:34 2007
From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:37:34 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] PLEASE edit posts for brevity and to
 avoid duplication
In-Reply-To: <C354BEFC.1877%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>
References: <C354BEFC.1877%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>
Message-ID: <472F62EE.5010900@gmail.com>

I don't want to second guess the moderators, but as a reader of the 
list, I do find it useful to include at least the PORTION of the prior 
message you are commenting on (or a brief summary of what you are 
commenting on), especially if:
 
(1) you tend to be very terse in your responses
or
(2) your response is lagging the original post by a couple of days (or more)
or
(3) the thread has been ongoing for some time and it may not be clear 
which of the prior posts you are responding to.

I try to be diligent about deleting email from my inbox after I read it, 
and it can be very frustrating to receive a comment on something  that I 
have deleted  and have no clue as to what it  refers to.  The subject 
line alone isn't always enough to jog the memory.

And I will admit that I am usually too lazy to search the list archives 
to find the message I had deleted.

(And this is just my personal opinion, but I find it much easier to open 
and read a single email that includes all the comments from multiple 
folks discussing a topic than to open 4 or 5 emails with individual 
comments and try to figure out how they all fit together in the sequence 
of the discussion. But I am not the moderator, so it isn't my opinion 
that counts.)
 
-- Mark

John Bonitz wrote:
> Friends,
>
> As another subscriber recently requested, please edit your posts for brevity
> and to avoid duplication of listserv content.
>
> If we've all already received it once, we only need to see it again if you
> are commenting directly on prior text.  So, if you are responding /
> replying, before you hit send, please scroll to the end of your reply and
> delete the previously-posted text.  In other words, don't send everyone a
> bunch of junk at the tail-end of your own message.
>
> This is really simple to do, saves electrons, and makes it much more
> pleasant for everyone on the list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
> (co-moderator of the list)
>
>   

From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Mon Nov  5 13:05:08 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:05:08 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] PLEASE edit posts for brevity and to
 avoid duplication
In-Reply-To: <472F62EE.5010900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C354D394.1886%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

Excellent points, Mark.

Yes, there's nothing keeping anyone from selectively editing the prior text,
so only the relevant content is forwarded again to the whole list.

Sorry, I thought that was implicit in my request.  Never intended to cramp
effective communication.

Bottom line?  Please just be mindful of bandwidth conservation: Cut the
unnecessary forwarding of text.  For example, the following ...

Cheers,
John Bonitz

On 11/5/07 2:37 PM, "Mark J. Ambrose" <markj.ambrose at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't want to second guess the moderators, but as a reader of the
> list, I do find it useful to include at least the PORTION of the prior
> message you are commenting on (or a brief summary of what you are
> commenting on) . . .
>  
> -- Mark
> 
> John Bonitz wrote:
>> Friends,
>> 
>> As another subscriber recently requested, please edit your posts for brevity
>> and to avoid duplication of listserv content.
>> 
>> This is really simple to do, saves electrons, and makes it much more
>> pleasant for everyone on the list.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> John
>> (co-moderator of the list)



From info at theforestfoundation.org  Mon Nov  5 14:19:49 2007
From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:19:49 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!
In-Reply-To: <707607.15511.qm@web55303.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <707607.15511.qm@web55303.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <472F6CD5.2060602@theforestfoundation.org>

We have ample levels of both shit and fans.

I would think the Coop and current customer base would be top priority, 
rather than the highest bidder.   As we are blending B50, half the price 
is tied to diesel's fast ascent, and a good percentage of the bio's cost 
is connected to petroleum, in transport costs, methanol, etc.  Biodiesel 
prices will have to inflate, but ideally not as fast as petrol or with 
as many peaks and valleys.

Story:  This old man from the east Durham neighborhood came into our 
office today with cash to pay the previous resident of our site petro. 
company for his fuel oil.  He was desperate as he new temperatures were 
going to dip down into the low 30's.  I am sure his house, like many in 
our neighborhood, is very poorly insulated.  We wanted to help him pay 
his bill and get fuel, but we felt financially strapped and absolutely 
needed payment upfront. 

Motto:  We need folks thinking of helping others in this time of crises, 
as there will be many that will be much worse off than paying high 
prices for their auto fuel.

Marc

John Hollingsworth wrote:
> Back in May, I posted a message about what our co-op's
> response would be to petrodiesel prices north of
> $3.50.  There was no action on that thread then.
>  
> I'll fess up and say that along with my eco-ethics the
> main force driving my decision to go with B100 and
> support this co-op is that I believe that Peak Oil is
> real and I want to mitigate its eventual havoc.  To
> quote Cypress Hill, "When the shit goes down, you'd
> better be ready".
>  
> It would be comforting to know that those of us that
> pay $3.50 year-round will be protected against fuel
> outages during the upcoming price increases.  Is this
> unrealistic?  Am I alone in feeling this way?
>  
> Is anyone interested now?  If not, how's the view of
> the subterranian sand?
>  
> John Hollingsworth
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:45:43 GMT
> From: "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net"
> <rudolfdiesel at netzero.net>
> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel
> prices!
>
> A little birdie (a friend in the oil business) has
> warned me to expect at least a 30-40 cent/gal increase
> in gasoline by December.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>
>   

From shipyardphil at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  5 14:26:57 2007
From: shipyardphil at yahoo.com (Phil Carter)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 11:26:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!
Message-ID: <974186.12539.qm@web50809.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Out of curiousity,

Is the chicken feedstock sold on a spot market like a commodity or purchased through a contract and what affects that price. I assume that as oil goes up so will demand for feedstock now that there are many biodiesel production facilities....

Thanks,

Phil

----- Original Message ----
From: John Hollingsworth <mapmantx at yahoo.com>
To: Piedmont Biofuels <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Monday, November 5, 2007 9:43:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!


Back in May, I posted a message about what our co-op's
response would be to petrodiesel prices north of
$3.50.  There was no action on that thread then.
 
I'll fess up and say that along with my eco-ethics the
main force driving my decision to go with B100 and
support this co-op is that I believe that Peak Oil is
real and I want to mitigate its eventual havoc.  To
quote Cypress Hill, "When the shit goes down, you'd
better be ready".
 
It would be comforting to know that those of us that
pay $3.50 year-round will be protected against fuel
outages during the upcoming price increases.  Is this
unrealistic?  Am I alone in feeling this way?
 
Is anyone interested now?  If not, how's the view of
the subterranian sand?
 
John Hollingsworth

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:45:43 GMT
From: "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net"
<rudolfdiesel at netzero.net>
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel
prices!

A little birdie (a friend in the oil business) has
warned me to expect at least a 30-40 cent/gal increase
in gasoline by December.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From shipyardphil at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  5 14:27:42 2007
From: shipyardphil at yahoo.com (Phil Carter)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 11:27:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!
Message-ID: <485898.39906.qm@web50811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Out of curiousity,

Is the chicken feedstock sold on a spot market like a commodity or
 purchased through a contract and what affects that price. I assume that as
 oil goes up so will demand for feedstock now that there are many
 biodiesel production facilities....

Thanks,

Phil

----- Original Message ----
From: John Hollingsworth <mapmantx at yahoo.com>
To: Piedmont Biofuels <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Monday, November 5, 2007 9:43:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel prices!


Back in May, I posted a message about what our co-op's
response would be to petrodiesel prices north of
$3.50.  There was no action on that thread then.
 
I'll fess up and say that along with my eco-ethics the
main force driving my decision to go with B100 and
support this co-op is that I believe that Peak Oil is
real and I want to mitigate its eventual havoc.  To
quote Cypress Hill, "When the shit goes down, you'd
better be ready".
 
It would be comforting to know that those of us that
pay $3.50 year-round will be protected against fuel
outages during the upcoming price increases.  Is this
unrealistic?  Am I alone in feeling this way?
 
Is anyone interested now?  If not, how's the view of
the subterranian sand?
 
John Hollingsworth

------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:45:43 GMT
From: "rudolfdiesel at netzero.net"
<rudolfdiesel at netzero.net>
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FYI-watch fuel
prices!

A little birdie (a friend in the oil business) has
warned me to expect at least a 30-40 cent/gal increase
in gasoline by December.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From markj.ambrose at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 20:32:33 2007
From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:32:33 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel vs. food -- Why cellulosic ethanol
	may not be "the answer"
Message-ID: <472FC431.7040203@gmail.com>

Folks -

There has been a whole lot of stuff about biofuels and food costs in the 
news lately.  A lot of it doesn't show a good understanding of 
agro-economics and, I think, overstates the current impact of biofuels 
on food supplies.  However, the articles often speak of cellulosic 
ethanol as if it were the "holy grail," the solution that will get us 
out of the food vs. fuel dilemma.  In doing so, they miss a fundamental 
point -- the food vs. fuel trade-off is not in how we use the corn or 
the soybeans, it is in how we use the LAND!

Already, we have seen soy bean prices rise recently, not because 
biodiesel has been using so much soy bean oil but because the ethanol 
boom has increased corn prices so that more acres of corn have been 
planted and less of soy.

So what happens if we find a cheap way to produce cellulosic ethanol?  
Well, it will certainly open the door to producing liquid fuels from a 
lot of our current waste stream (waste paper, saw mill waste, pulp mill 
waste).  It will also allow fuel crops such as switch grass or 
fast-growing  trees (willow, poplar, etc) to be grown on land unsuitable 
for agriculture.  However, IF fuel prices go high enough and cellulosic 
ethanol yield is high enough, it is conceivable that eventually land 
that is currently used for food crops would be converted to growing 
cellulose crops.   Growing trees on land suitable for agriculture would 
be unprecedented; in general production forestry is never practiced on 
land where agriculture is viable because almost any agricultural crop 
yields more $/acre than does wood production (but ethanol might change 
this). And it is not at all unprecedented for production of a high value 
agricultural crop for a particular market (often an export market) to 
displace food production and force food prices way up.  It is not a 
pretty picture.

Another possibility would be the expansion of high-yield cellulose crops 
onto land currently in forest.  Many environmentalists are not happy 
with loblolly pine plantations being grown on a 25-year rotation and 
clear-cut.  Consider the impact of converting land to high-yield biomass 
plantations on a 5-year rotation.

I think the reall answer is that we absolutely have to reduce our fuel 
consumption.  If we do not, absent strictly enforced strict land-use 
restrictions, the free market and a viable large-scale biofuels industry 
will likely drive food prices way up and/or have negative environmental 
impacts.

Thoughts?

[Of course, maybe there really is a holy grail out there.  If it exists, 
it would probably be one that allows biofuel production using very 
little arable land.  Algae???]

--Mark

From skepticbill at mac.com  Mon Nov  5 22:33:29 2007
From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac))
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:33:29 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel vs. food -- Why cellulosic
 ethanol may not be "the answer"
In-Reply-To: <472FC431.7040203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3554AB9.9D6F%skepticbill@mac.com>

Mark,

I think you are dead on about conservation and efficiency. They truly are
the 'low-hanging fruit' that needs to be addressed. Later this month I will
be going to a small seminar presented by Amory Lovins and Kyle Datta
entitled, "Advanced Energy Efficiency and Alternative Supplies for
Profitable Climate Protection". Whatever I glean from the meeting I plan on
sharing with The BIG. (which might not be a bad brand, "The BIG" - but I
digress.)

Craig Venter was on NPR's Fresh Air tonight talking about cellulosic. He's
clearly a very bright guy and I sure wouldn't bet against him coming up with
some very useful fuel technologies. But, I'm still rooting for algae based
biodiesel and solar powered diesel electric hybrids.

In my opinion there is no one holy grail. There are a number of grails that
will have to be cobbled together with some sort of spiritual (alt/fuel) duct
tape.

-Bill-

 
On 11/5/07 8:32 PM, "Mark J. Ambrose" <markj.ambrose at gmail.com> wrote:

> [Of course, maybe there really is a holy grail out there.  If it exists,
> it would probably be one that allows biofuel production using very
> little arable land.  Algae???]



From mattr at biofuels.coop  Tue Nov  6 07:36:53 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 06:36:53 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] CANDIDATES MCCAIN,
	CLINTON SPEAKING AT IOWA BIOFUEL EVENT
Message-ID: <D33FA6FF-B50A-4D90-A35C-DAD860B31610@biofuels.coop>

2007-11-05 12:38:53 EST
***CANDIDATES MCCAIN, CLINTON SPEAKING AT IOWA BIOFUEL EVENT
    No doubt with an eye towards Iowa's January 2008 caucus,  
presidential
candidates and Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Hillary Clinton (D- 
N.Y.) are
expected to join Iowa biofuel marketer and producer Renewable Energy  
Group
(REG) tomorrow at two separate events.
    According to an announcement from REG, McCain will join REG  
executives
Tuesday morning to officially open the company's new, 60,000 square foot
headquarters. The ribbon cutting will take place at 8:30am CT.
    Then at 11am CT, Clinton will tour Central Iowa Energy, a 30- 
million gal/yr
biodiesel plant managed and marketed by REG which began production in
May. "Immediately following the tour, Sen. Clinton will share her  
thoughts on
the nation's energy concerns," REG said in a press release.
    According to one Iowa energy source, Clinton is expected to give  
"a major
speech on jobs and renewable energy," although it's unclear whether  
any new
initiatives will be announced. In May 2006, before declaring her  
intention to
run for president, Clinton unveiled what became the basis for her  
national
energy plan. She proposed launching a $50 billion "strategic energy  
fund" to
jumpstart ethanol and other renewable energy technologies to help the  
U.S.
reduce oil imports 50% by 2025. The $50 billion for the energy fund  
would
partly come from taxing "big oil" profits.
    On biofuels, Clinton advocated using $1 billion of the energy  
fund to fully
launch a cellulosic ethanol industry and proposed that E85 be offered  
at 50% of
U.S. gasoline stations by 2015 and 100% by 2025 by providing gasoline  
station
owners with a 50% tax credit for the cost of installing pumps. Her  
proposal
also touted a renewable electricity requirement and a doubling of  
consumer tax
breaks for hybrids, clean diesels and other advanced vehicles.
    According to the same Iowa energy source, McCain isn't expected  
to unveil
any new initiatives. In April, McCain unveiled his national energy  
proposal,
calling for a diversified energy strategy and production to reduce  
U.S. oil
imports that includes biodiesel and ethanol made from a variety of  
feedstocks.
However, both he and Clinton have previously spoken against ethanol  
mandates,
which place them in a difficult situation when courting Midwest votes.


From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com  Tue Nov  6 10:41:30 2007
From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 10:41:30 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] this UNC thesis may be of interest
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24021.1194290117.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
References: <mailman.24021.1194290117.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
Message-ID: <1194363690.30832.1219836851@webmail.messagingengine.com>

http://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/etd&CISOPTR=114&REC=1
-- 
  Steve J. Rankin
  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com


From markj.ambrose at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 11:19:20 2007
From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:19:20 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biofuels Research Areas (long message)
Message-ID: <47309408.7040301@gmail.com>

Folks --

I just happened to receive a notice about a Research grant competition 
from the Consortium for Plant Biotechnology, Inc., an organization of 
several universities and private companies. I can't post the entire 
notice, but I thought folks might be interested in the areas that they 
identified where research is needed. Lots of interesting areas for research.

-- Mark

The following research needs and issues have been identified by CPBR 
member companies and sponsoring agency representatives.
? 2007 The Consortium for Plant Biotechnology Research, Inc

AGROCHEMICALS
1. Fate of agrochemicals, including biological/ microbial pesticides, 
with emphasis on environmental impact:
? factors that influence detoxification in soil or water
? pathways of agrochemical metabolism in target organisms
? fate of microbial pesticides in the environment
? fate of agrochemicals in the environment

2. Identification of vulnerable target sites:
? molecular targets of herbicide/pesticide/biopesticide action
? gene products which influence agronomically important traits
? new genes to confer pest and disease resistance, including those 
native to the target species
? pesticidal metabolites from fermentation

3. Mechanisms of resistance to agrochemicals and biological pesticides:
? detoxification systems in insects
? herbicide tolerance in crops
? mechanisms of cross resistance to different agrochemicals and 
biopesticides
? strategies to delay development of resistance

4. Microbes affecting crop production:
? plant pathogens for mycoherbicides
? microbes for control of insect and nematode pests and for plant pathogens
? survival and spread of microbes
? mechanisms determining the host range of entomopathogens

5. Biopesticides and bioherbicides from vegetable oils:
? lipid biosynthesis
? transformation
6. Alternatives to agrochemicals to manage loss of biomass crops due to 
pests and disease:
? genetic modification of crops to increase resistance to pests and diseases
? new genes to confer pest and disease resistance, including those 
native to the target species
7. Mechanisms of plant growth regulation/plant hormones.
8. Development of feedstock chemicals from plants.
9. Novel plant derived chemicals.
10. Isolation of plant enzymes to make chemical products.

BIOMASS CONVERSION
1. Improve biomass conversion to biofuels:
? improve processing economics
? improve industrial fermentation organisms
(optimize growth rate, ethanol and other product/byproduct tolerance, 
thermo tolerance,
robustness, tolerance to shear and other physical stress)
? use thermophilic bacteria as sources of thermally
stable enzymes for biomass conversion
? improve physical properties and catalytic efficiency
of conversion enzymes through protein engineering
? convert methanogenic organisms to production of other fuel gases (e.g. 
propane, butane)
? improve fractionation/purification of fermentation products
? improve physical and enzymatic pretreatment of cellulosic materials to 
improve conversion
efficiency
? improve rates of enzymatic hydrolysis of cellulose
? better, more efficient conversion of 5-carbon sugars and better 
understanding of pathways
? genetically modify biomass crops to express enzymes required for 
conversion to biofuels
? analyses of enzymology, biochemistry and genetics of degradation of 
starch, cellulose, lignin
and other plant polysaccharides and determine metabolism of sugars released
? genetic modification of plant properties which will tailor them to 
improve processing
? hydrogen production via gasification

2. Identify and develop uses of biomass to conserve petroleum fuels:
? improve plant components for use as substitutes for petroleum products
? develop biodegradable polymers for plastics
? biodiesel, utilization of byproducts
? ethanol, utilization of byproducts
? production of biocarbon/charcoal
? catalytic conversion of syngas to ethanol

3. Develop processes to produce and purify industrially important 
materials from crops:
? produce and utilize alternative end products from fermentation
? industrial uses of vegetable oil methyl esters
? basic biochemistry of non-food products
? improve separation technology for production of chemicals by fermentation

4. Improve utilization of all components of feedstocks:
? improve plant components for use as substitutes
for petroleum products (detergent additives, biodiesel fuels, lubricants)
? combination of fermentation and thermochemical technology
? minimize residues, and/or generate coproducts from residues
? identify, quantify, and ameliorate residues? gaseous, liquid and solid 
phase?generated by
the processing of biomass
? energy production from stillage

5. Biomass for electricity production:
? conversion of biomass in sufficient quantities and at a price 
competitive with conventional fuels used
in electricity generation
? conversion options for specific feedstocks:
gasification, co-firing; combined cycle, fuel flexibility
? waste products and byproducts: ash disposal, nitrogen and sulfur 
oxides, carbon dioxide, scrubber sludge uses
? develop other marketable products from waste material
? compare compositional information and suitability of crops for conversion

ENERGY CROP PRODUCTION
1. Identification and development of novel plant materials suitable to 
serve as biomass feedstock:
? alternative renewable energy crops to serve as cellulosic feedstocks
? harvestable fruits or transported saps/latexes from long term 
perennial crops as alternative
feedstocks

2. Improve productivity of current biomass crops:
? genetic modification of biomass crops to increase yield
? determine microbial interaction with plants
? genetic modification of microorganisms associated with biomass crops
? develop pest control biotechnologies
? environmental and biological stress systems
? genetically engineer herbicide resistant crops

3. Genetically modify biomass crops to increase suitability as a feedstock:
? increase understanding of the structure, composition and conversion of 
cell wall components
? determine mechanisms regulating size and composition of carbohydrate 
pools in plants
? modify carbohydrate composition of biomass crops to be consistent with 
conversion process
(higher starch level in corn, less lignin in cellulosic feedstocks, 
shorter chain length in starch, etc.)
? modify oil content to produce more optimal balance for specific 
industrial applications of
environmentally favorable plant oils (biodiesel, lubricants)
? increase solids content (lower water content) of biomass feedstocks
? characterize mechanisms to control the composition of secondary 
metabolites in biomass crops

4. Improve sustainability of biomass production:
? increase efficiency of Ca+2 and Mg+2 use by plants to minimize 
demineralization of soil
? develop methods to produce and harvest biomass crops that minimize 
soil erosion and promote soil conservation
? determine limitations to achieving truly sustainable biomass production
? monoculture problem

5. Develop somatic embryogenesis for woody crops.
6. Biomass for electricity production:
? perennials and trees applicable for biomass power utilization
? plants with a potential for a high-value co-product that results in 
relatively large amount of residues
available for biomass power
? increase yield through genetic or cultural manipulation (biotechnology 
or bioengineering)
? produce biomass in sufficient quantities and at a price competitive 
with conventional fuels used in
electricity production
? optimize feedstock growth characteristics: growth rate, energy 
content/density, biomass density per
acre, fertilizer and pesticide requirements, water requirement
? optimize feedstock chemical composition: lignin, water, ash, slagging, 
tradeoff with growth rate and
yield, byproduct or coproduct possibilities, relationship between 
composition and suitability for conversion
? optimize other feedstock properties: harvesting, transport, drying, 
storage, combustion, problem wastes
? optimize feedstock availability: seasonality,amount, sustainability

ENABLING BIOTECHNOLOGIES
1. Improve genetics methods:
? genetic purity and fingerprinting for plant variety and patenting
? genetic tools to enhance traditional breeding of biomass crops
? develop genetic maps, especially for biomass crops

2. Improve systems for transformation of agronomic plants:
? develop transformation systems, especially in monocots
? develop vectors and selectable markers
? optimize methods for stable genetic transformation
? determine mechanisms regulating gene expression
? develop Agrobacterium techniques
? develop non-Agrobacterium techniques
? gene tagging
? improve double haploid production techniques
? develop capabilities to transfer multi-gene pathways and clone them 
into commodity crops
3. Plant propagation and regeneration systems
4. Improved processes for plant cell and tissue culture:
? expression of secondary plant metabolites in differentiated tissue culture
? induce differentiated callus cultures to produce differentiated 
secondary tissues
? develop immobilized plant cell systems for production of plant products
? address scale-up problems of natural products
? develop high secretion systems in plant cell culture
5. Characterize molecular mechanisms underlying and controlling 
agronomically important traits:
? develop inducible genetic regulatory systems for syntheses of 
specialized products in plants that
will work in the field as well as in tissue culture
? reproductive biology
? new genes for stress tolerance

6. Characterize metabolic pathways for synthesis of important plant 
products and coproducts:
? genetic modification of rate-limiting reaction steps
? modification of reaction steps to force accumulation of valuable 
intermediates
? modification of enzyme reactions in pathways to produce modified products

7. Gene regulation:
? tissue specific and inducible promoters
? novel methods of regulating gene expression
? sterility and control of sexual reproduction
? development of regulatory genes that respond to environmental, 
chemical, and physical stimuli
8. Determine the metabolism, biochemistry and genetics in plants and 
animals of plant-synthesized
toxins and other undesirable components.
9. Examine chemistry, biochemistry, and physical properties of plant 
carbohydrates, proteins, lipids,
and metabolites and relate this knowledge to physiology and genetics.
10. Develop stereospecific and regiospecific systems for 
biotransformation of existing compounds which are
synthetically difficult for the production of novel and more efficacious 
products.
11. Genomics topics.

ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES
1. Bioremediation/phytoremediation:
? bioremediation of marginal lands by biomass crops
? use of fungi
? evaluation techniques
? identify nutrients to improve bioremediation processes
? treatment of plant effluent
? addition of nutrients to soil-ecology; how to stimulate desirable 
microorganisms and eliminate
undesirable pathogens
? phytoremediation of aromatic pollutants and development of elite clone 
lines

2. Reduction of greenhouse gas emissions:
? methods to fix or use carbon dioxide from fermentation
? develop fermentations yielding products other than ethanol (e.g., 
acetone) which may produce less
carbon dioxide production as a byproduct
? direct conversion of biomass to carbon/charcoal

3. ?Fertigation? with wood mill effluent:
? use marginal/non productive lands
? salt and heavy metal buildup problem
? ground water contamination
4. Identify ecological consequences of intensive biomass cropping.
5. Determine environmental impact of deliberate release of genetically 
modified biomass crops and
microorganisms:
? assess effects of pollen drift on wild plant relatives;
? assess effects of pollen drift on non-target pests;
? assess development of resistance in target pests, microbes, and viruses;
? assess possible toxicity or immunogenicity of new gene products in 
food crops;
? assess possible toxicity of new gene products in soil and water.

6. Develop methods to prevent escape of introduced genes from engineered 
crops.
7. Determine cost-differential for conventional breeding ?release? 
versus laboratory genetic modification
release.
8. Determine environmental impact of using vegetable oil and animal fats 
to replace petrochemicals in
industrial uses.

FOREST PRODUCTS
1. Pulp and paper:
? identify components of post-harvest wood degradation and modify 
resistance, i.e. extend the
?shelf life? of stored wood (to reduce bleaching costs)
? reduce energy in pulping process by fiber structure 
modification--longer, thin-walled fibers
? reduced lignin content
? extraction of higher-valued chemicals from pulp
? methods to approach zero water usage in pulp and paper mill
? design a pulp and paper mill with no aqueous, air or solids pollution
? methods to automatically sort and handle incoming wastepaper for 
recycled paper applications
? requirements to achieve a low energy, high strength, high brightness, 
high yield mechanical
pulp fiber
? zero chlorine bleaching

2. Solid wood products:
? increased strength properties
? stain resistance

3. Forest crop production:
? herbicide tolerance - new genes
? insect and disease tolerance - new genes to inhibit insect damage
? increased specific gravity
? develop more prolific and/or aggressive predators for spruce bud worm 
on spruce, aspen defoliators
(e.g. tent caterpillars)
? better propagation: clone (cell/tissue culture) outstanding conifer or 
deciduous species
? discover the role of the major physiological factors in the growth of 
trees
? design efficient clonal forestry system
? locate/specify key genetic markers related to tree growth
? discover the components for a system of intensive cultivation of trees 
so that optimal growth rates
can be achieved

4. Biomass/cogeneration production for short rotation species including 
hybrid aspen for limiting nutrients
(e.g. Ca+2 on forest soils):
? extract higher valued products (e.g. alcohols, starches) prior to burning
5. Integration of ecosystems and timber management.
6. Controls on transgenic material introduced into the environment (e.g. 
male sterility, female sterility, etc.).
7. How to balance genetic gain against propagation efficiency in 
hard-to-propagate but valuable clones.

PROCESS APPLICATIONS
? Examination of chemistry, biochemistry, and physical properties of 
plant carbohydrates, proteins,
lipids, and metabolites, and relate this knowledge to physiology, and 
genetics.
? Analyses of the enzymology, biochemistry, and genetics of degradation 
by microorganisms of
starch, cellulose, lignin, and other plant polysaccharides, and 
determine metabolism of
sugars released by such degradation.
? Development of new processes for the production and purification of 
industrially important materials
from crops.
? Examination of new processes for the modification and conversion of 
plant materials.
? Determination of the metabolism, biochemistry, and genetics in plants 
and animals of plant-synthesized
toxins and other undesirable components.
? Exploration of genetic engineering of plants to improve processing 
economics.
? Development of improved processes for plant cell and tissue culture.
? Fermentation technology.
? Better separation technology for production of chemicals by fermentation.
? Reduce energy expenditures in processing.

SEEDS
1. Microbial interaction with seeds:
? pathogens
? symbionts
? stimulants
? vigor-enhancing factors from natural products
2. Improved product quality:
? germination
? manipulation of seed components
? long-term seed viability
? altered grain composition
? improved seed vigor and disease resistance
? increased seed yields
? new genes to confer pest and disease resistance, including those 
native to the target species
3. Novel hybrid seed production techniques with or without 
transformation of cytoplasmic elements.
4. Food-related seed industry interests.
5. Develop artificial seeds via somatic embryogenesis.
6. Expression of enzymes in seeds.



From dentonconrad at netzero.net  Wed Nov  7 08:23:19 2007
From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:23:19 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Work starts on new biofuel plant
Message-ID: <4731BC47.7070006@netzero.net>


    Work starts on new biofuel plant



http://www.newsobserver.com/print/wednesday/business/story/763417.html


From wrenchwench at blast.com  Wed Nov  7 12:13:24 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:13:24 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Wired: Turning a Glycerin Glut Into
	Ethanol Helps Biofuel Industry
References: <1194443791.524.57626.m44@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <F7B4DCE9-5E5B-4DD3-A09D-10921B244607@blast.com>

A Texas biotech firm plans "within a matter of months" to begin  
producing ethanol from glycerin using technology
that significantly cuts production costs and could solve one of the  
biggest problems facing the biodiesel industry.

Begin forwarded message:

>
> http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2007/11/glycerin


From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Thu Nov  8 10:48:44 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 11:48:44 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Khosla invests in new biocrude process
Message-ID: <C358A81C.1906%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

http://earth2tech.com/2007/11/06/range-fuels-starts-construction-on-cellulos
ic-ethanol-plant/

<SNIP>
Last week, Khosla Ventures disclosed another investment in a thermochemical
biofuel startup, KiOR
<http://earth2tech.com/2007/11/01/khoslas-latest-biofuel-bet-kior/> , which
has developed a ?biomass catalytic cracking process? ? a thermochemical
process that produces biocrude from grass, wood and plant waste that can
then be refined. KiOR CEO Rob Van Der Meij claims his company?s technology
has lower capital costs compared with other biomass conversion technologies
like gasification.  <ENDSNIP>

~ ~ ~

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org


Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that
create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy
communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
http://www.cleanenergy.org.




From Christy.Raulli at facilities.unc.edu  Thu Nov  8 22:09:15 2007
From: Christy.Raulli at facilities.unc.edu (Raulli,
	Christy A (Sustainability Office))
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 22:09:15 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fire at F & F automotive
Message-ID: <7D5DFDD99573BC49BB0CF6F5175F005B0B76E586D3@facmailmb1.facilities.unc.edu>

Many of us get our cars repaired at F & F Automotive in Carrboro, so I thought y'all would want to know the sad news that they had a fire tonight after everyone left the shop. No one was hurt, but there looks to be pretty extensive damage to the building. Cars parked out front (mine included) seem to be ok, as well as the buildings on either side. Kudos to the Carrboro and Chapel Hill fire departments for stopping a bad situation before it got even worse. I'm sure there will be more information forthcoming, but for now, keep Cleve and his folks in your thoughts.

christy

From wrenchwench at blast.com  Fri Nov  9 08:59:34 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 08:59:34 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: 100% Biodiesel endorsement
References: <20071109T085237Z_C77A00030000@gtcc.edu>
Message-ID: <4BAE0857-38C6-4C89-BEB7-9E1022D601C4@blast.com>



Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> New Holland Agricultural Equipment Supports Use of 100% Biodiesel
>
> November 08, 2007: 01:29 PM EST
>
> New Holland Agricultural Equipment today announced it supports the  
> use of B100 biodiesel in all equipment with New Holland- 
> manufactured diesel engines, including electronic injection engines  
> with common rail technology The announcement consolidates New  
> Holland's leading position on biodiesel, ensuring its customers  
> have the widest and most comprehensive choice of biodiesel- 
> supported machinery on the market.
>
> Overall, nearly 80% of New Holland-branded products with diesel  
> engines are now available to operate on B100 biodiesel. New Holland  
> has also asked other suppliers of diesel engines used in New  
> Holland-branded products to test and approve higher levels of  
> biodiesel.
>
> In addition to extensive testing and development within the  
> company, New Holland has been involved in an ongoing research  
> project in collaboration with Penn State University's College of  
> Agricultural Sciences to put B100 to the test under real-life  
> conditions. Penn State's College of Agricultural Sciences is  
> operating new, unmodified New Holland tractors on B100 biodiesel on  
> their 1,500-acre research farm to find out what diesel equipment  
> owners can expect to experience when they use B100. After nearly  
> two years of use, the tractors have performed with no adverse  
> effects in performance or maintenance, according to Glen Cauffman,  
> the university's manager of farm operations and services.
>
> Paul Trella, New Holland Director of Product Marketing for  
> Under-100 HP Tractors, said that by supporting B100 use, New  
> Holland is making a leap forward in its commitment to renewable  
> energy. "We are committed to providing equipment that is compliant  
> with biodiesel use, and to providing top-rate biodiesel support for  
> our customers. As the use of biodiesel continues to gain greater  
> acceptance and the infrastructure for providing a quality product  
> to consumers expands, New Holland equipment is ready," Trella said.
>
> Trella stressed it is essential to use high-quality biodiesel  
> produced to ASTM D6751 standards from a reputable supplier who can  
> offer consistent fuel quality to ensure optimum performance and  
> engine durability. It is imperative that consumers use nothing less  
> than this quality. With the use of approved fuels, it is also  
> essential that biodiesel be used in strict compliance with proper  
> handling, storage and maintenance requirements to maintain the  
> integrity of the fuel.
>
> Details of the models that can run on B100, as well as New  
> Holland's requirements and recommendations to do so safely, are  
> available from New Holland dealers or on the New Holland Web site  
> at www.newholland.com/na.
>
> New Holland Agricultural Equipment is a world leader in  
> agricultural, utility and construction equipment. New Holland sells  
> and services an innovative and diverse line of agricultural and  
> utility equipment, including a full line of tractors as well as hay  
> and forage equipment, harvesting, crop production and material  
> handling equipment.
>
> Sales, parts and service are provided to customers by New Holland  
> dealers throughout the United States and Canada. There are more  
> than 1,100 New Holland dealerships located throughout North  
> America. New Holland Agricultural Equipment is a division of CNH  
> Global N.V. (NYSE: CNH), a majority-owned subsidiary of Fiat S.p.A.  
> (FIA.MI).
>
> For more information, contact: Gene H. Hemphill Industry Affairs  
> Manager Phone: (717) 475-2152 Email Contact www.newholland.com/na


From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 13:21:54 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:21:54 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Question re: N2O
Message-ID: <84a57a420711091021p4eff6174w154c4906418c0d8@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I was just asked about the work of Nobel Laureate Paul Crutzen, who
suggested that emissions of Nitrous Oxide (N2O) in the production of
biofuels are more than enough to offset the advantages of displaced
fossil carbon emissions. Download his paper here:
http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/Crutzen/biofuels_NO2_release_2007.pdf
(728k)

I know we talked about this here once before, but I don't recall a
very thorough discussion.  (Although I do recall learning much from  a
kind lurker who helped me understand the soil-nitrogen cycle.)

I hadn't had a chance to closely examine that paper, but I skimmed it
just now.  I'd like to ask this audience to test my preliminary
conclusions.  Please bear in mind, this is only my personal take on
the subject.  Criticisms of, or additions to my argument are warmly
welcomed.


The nitrous oxide issue is definitely a problem with agriculture.  It
is much worse with wet soils (i.e., rice paddies), or when dryland
acreage gets overly wet / flooded.  N2O is formed by soil bacteria
when they are 'drowned' or immersed in an anaerobic situation.  This
is a general problem related to use of nitrogen fertilizers for any
purpose, not only biofuels.   His criticism applies to all
agriculture, regardless of whether it is producing food, feed, fiber,
or fuel.  (Interestingly, I suspect science is lacking to give Organic
agriculture a pass, because it too involves nitrogen, and the
potential for N2O releases.)

However, I believe that Crutzen's concerns do nothing to undermine the
biofuels that I am most interested in supporting -- namely,
southeastern biodiesel and cellulosic ethanol.

He explicitly gives cellulosic ethanol a pass (see page 11198 of his
paper), saying that switchgrass, elephant grass, hybrid poplar, etc.,
appear to be less of a concern than petroleum.  But it's a qualified
pass, because full life-cycle analyses still need to be performed for
each (which requires we wait til commercialization of the fuel).

Crutzen never once mentions soy in his report.  Because most biodiesel
in our region is currently made from soy oil, chicken fat, or old
fryer grease, I suspect that Crutzen's concerns do not apply.  To my
knowledge, soy does not require nitrogen fertilizer.  Rather, it fixes
nitrogen in the soil as it grows.  Waste vegetable oil has N2O 'costs'
associated with its production, but its conversion into biodiesel is a
recycling process, and so most people would view those costs as a
wash.  Chicken fat (and other animal fats) are produced regardless of
their demand as biodiesel feedstock, so their lifecycle cost is also a
wash (I would argue).

Thanks for reading.  Eager to hear the discussion.

John

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From biodiesel at yovo.info  Fri Nov  9 20:38:30 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:38:30 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Question re: N2O
In-Reply-To: <84a57a420711091021p4eff6174w154c4906418c0d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84a57a420711091021p4eff6174w154c4906418c0d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47350B96.2060309@yovo.info>

John, everyone,
finally I got around to reading the paper - very interesting. Although I 
cannot really evaluate the science in this paper, this does strike me a 
very important analysis. It really underlines the importance of serious 
efforts in improved agricultural practices that reduce the N2O 
emmissions, the importance of feedstock research and better use of waste 
streams in the community.

It has been pointed out before in this forum, and it bears repeating, 
that conservation and sustainable feedstock production are key goals of 
the biofuels movement. So, in that context, this research is really 
important as it sheds light on a very important challenge.

This paper does, however, illuminate a very narrow aspect of the 
petrofuel vs biofuel issue. Global warming is a huge issue, and many 
biodieselers, I think, see themselves as environmentalists, and try 
their best to reduce their contribution to global warming. This study 
does not take into account the huge amounts of fuel needed to ship 
petroleum around the globe, the massive amounts of energy needed to 
extract the crude and produce usable fuel, all of which factor into the 
climate-change impact of petrofuel. But the author does acknowledge that 
broader life-cycle analyses are needed.

In addition, petrofuel production is so brutal on our planet in so many 
ways, from extraction to spills, from cracking to wars fought over 
access, that I don't really see this as an anti-biofuel argument. Just a 
  reminder how important it is that we work hard and diligently at 
solving this enormous challenge. Personally, it confirms my commitment 
to using waste streams for fuel and supporting sustainable agriculture. 
AND to bike to work twice a week.

Grease be with you!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen Henn

          2002 Jetta TDI
      1991 Mercedes 300D
 >>  PRAISE THE LARD  <<
http://words.yovo.info/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


John Bonitz wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> 
> I was just asked about the work of Nobel Laureate Paul Crutzen, who
> suggested that emissions of Nitrous Oxide (N2O) in the production of
> biofuels are more than enough to offset the advantages of displaced
> fossil carbon emissions. Download his paper here:
> http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/Crutzen/biofuels_NO2_release_2007.pdf
> (728k)

<SNIP>


From dentonconrad at netzero.net  Sat Nov 10 10:10:24 2007
From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 10:10:24 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] HCCI engine can run on E85
Message-ID: <4735C9E0.6080501@netzero.net>

"HCCI engines have a compression ratio of 12:1 (similar to that of a 
conventional direct-injected gas engine), so they can run on regular 
pump gas and E85. GM says HCCI engines will cost less to build than 
diesels because the latter need stronger components to withstand 
compression ratios greater than 20:1."

http://machinedesign.com/ContentItem/71548/Compressionignitioncomestogasengines.aspx

From mbcahoon at blast.com  Sun Nov 11 20:28:32 2007
From: mbcahoon at blast.com (Mary Beth Cahoon)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:28:32 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] will a gelled up fuel filter unclog when
	warm?
Message-ID: <5B25BD33-28A8-4BDB-8C0E-9A905661949E@blast.com>

My trusty 84 Volvo ( Dagmar) currently has a full tank of B100.  I  
was able to start her one cold morning last week, having plugged in  
her block heater the night before.  She drove for a very brief time  
and then stopped.  I assume the fuel had gelled in the lines.  But  
today, a fairly mild day,  I tried to start her and she had a REALLY  
difficult time turning over, barely starting once and then dying  
again.  I'm wondering if the fuel filter became clogged that cold  
morning with wax crystals and my question is this: as the temperature  
rises, the fuel in the lines returns to its liquid state right, but  
will the filter unclog too or should I just try a new filter?

MB Cahoon

From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Sun Nov 11 21:02:29 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 02:02:29 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] will a gelled up fuel filter unclog
	when	 warm?
Message-ID: <20071111.210229.6003.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>

Hi
Wax forms at low temperatures, then goes away as tempertaure rises just as you said. It is possible that your tank has chilled and the fuel become "waxy". Is the car parked in the sun or in a garage? Basking in the sun helps of course. It is going to warm up this week. Once you get tyhe car running well, suggest you use up some of that B-100 and then add some petro diesel to lower the waxing point of your fuel. If the car does not run even on a warm sunny day then your fuel filter may be clogged up with lacquers, water, etc. 

Rich Cregar


From mweaver at misteam.net  Sun Nov 11 21:47:36 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:47:36 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] will a gelled up fuel filter unclog
 when	 warm?
In-Reply-To: <20071111.210229.6003.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>
References: <20071111.210229.6003.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4737BEC8.3050909@misteam.net>

You might also add a little PowerService or Diesel911.  Works for me - I 
run about 80% BD and 20% Petro in the Winter.

rudolfdiesel at netzero.net wrote:

>Hi
>Wax forms at low temperatures, then goes away as tempertaure rises just as you said. It is possible that your tank has chilled and the fuel become "waxy". Is the car parked in the sun or in a garage? Basking in the sun helps of course. It is going to warm up this week. Once you get tyhe car running well, suggest you use up some of that B-100 and then add some petro diesel to lower the waxing point of your fuel. If the car does not run even on a warm sunny day then your fuel filter may be clogged up with lacquers, water, etc. 
>
>Rich Cregar
>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From dentonconrad at netzero.net  Tue Nov 13 08:42:34 2007
From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:42:34 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Plant ethanol may help N.C.
Message-ID: <4739A9CA.2040003@netzero.net>

"Technological advances have overtaken five ethanol plants proposed for 
Eastern North Carolina. One has been canceled and at least one other 
delayed. None will start production this year."

http://www.newsobserver.com/print/tuesday/business/story/770630.html

From David.Little at nc.usda.gov  Tue Nov 13 10:41:59 2007
From: David.Little at nc.usda.gov (Little, David - Wilson, NC)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:41:59 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] N2O
Message-ID: <1447032AC8D9F54AA935A2BEF04D86D90591B6@MOSTLOUIS2S301.ageast.one.usda.gov>

On 11/9/07, John Bonitz wrote:

	N2O is formed by soil bacteria
	when they are 'drowned' or immersed in an anaerobic situation.
This
	is a general problem related to use of nitrogen fertilizers for
any
	purpose, not only biofuels.   His criticism applies to all
	agriculture, regardless of whether it is producing food, feed,
fiber,
	or fuel.  

John, you are right about the wet conditions needed by bacteria to
denitrify "Nitrate" and form gaseous nitrogen compounds.  Keep in mind
that these bacteria may experience these conditions inside a soil
aggregate (clod) in a soil that is normally well drained if rainfall has
been plentiful (I'm trying to remember what that is like).  Wet
conditions inside the aggregate may persist longer than in the soil
profile in general.  

As with any chemical reaction, adding more of a reactant (nitrogen from
fertilizer) will push the reaction to make more of the end product
(nitrogen gas).  This happens when farmers add nitrogen fertilizer and
is maximized when crops with a high nitrogen requirement (like corn) are
planted or when nitrogen is over applied.


	He explicitly gives cellulosic ethanol a pass (see page 11198 of
his
	paper), saying that switchgrass, elephant grass, hybrid poplar,
etc.,
	appear to be less of a concern than petroleum.  

These plants require little, if any, added nitrogen.  I have done some
work with switchgrass and other native grasses and know that some of
their roots go down as deep as 25 feet and are very efficient in
removing nitrogen and other nutrients.  As you say, soybeans require no
nitrogen, however, it is common to give them a small amount of nitrogen
when they are planted to get them up and growing until fixation can
begin.

	(Interestingly, I suspect science is lacking to give Organic
	agriculture a pass, because it too involves nitrogen, and the
	potential for N2O releases.)

There has been some research regarding organic agriculture lately,
although I don't know of any specific to the N2O situation.  However,
there has been lots around the CO2 issue.  Agriculture is in a position
to remove huge quantities of CO2 from the atmospere by using certain
practices that result in sequestration of CO2 in the soil.  By planting
cover crops like winter rye or other cereal grains and planting all
crops without tillage, carbon begins to accumulate in the soil (like
mother nature intended).  When the soil is tilled it is like using a
bellows on a fire and soil carbon is oxidized by bacteria and other
microbes.  Tillage is what organic (and traditional) farming methods
have relied on for weed control.  Now, we are finding other methods that
do not include tillage so that levels of soil carbon (organic matter)
can increase.  When soil organic matter increases, so do available
nutrients like nitrogen, although they are slowly available.  This
results in a lower requirement for fertilizer nitrogen and (I assume)
lower rates of denitrification because nitrate concentrations in the
soil are lower.

I am optimistic.



kind lurker

From mapmantx at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 13 13:11:51 2007
From: mapmantx at yahoo.com (John Hollingsworth)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:11:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] It's Supply and Demand, Silly
Message-ID: <743259.19062.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/13/news/economy/gas_prices/index.htm

Since apparently no one cares that our inventory is
about to be wiped out by demand, how about we put some
money on it to make it interesting?

Anyone want to start a pool on when the average NC
diesel price will go north of $3.50?  I'd be willing
to put $10 on December 1st.

Then again, if this web site
(http://www.internetautoguide.com/gas-prices/32-int/north-carolina/chatham/index.html)
is accurate then we could crest $3.50 by
Thanksgiving.

I'm only going off of what I was told happened the
last time the market price for petrodiesel went above
our cost during the fuel crunch after Katrina and
Rita.  Are we protected now?  Has the new production
facility made this a moot point?  Do the laws of
Supply and Demand magically not apply in Pittsboro?

If I'm talking out of my hat, I wish someone (...
paging Lyle, Rachel, Matt or Leif) would educate me
and put my fears to rest.  I know you all are
talking about this.  Can you share the plan with the
rest of us...ya know...paying members of the co-op? 

With apologies for being snarky, this is an issue that
could dramatically affect us and the silence is
deafening.

Regards,

John Hollingsworth




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. 
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 

From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 14:54:52 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:54:52 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] circum-global jet flight on "biofuel"
Message-ID: <84a57a420711131154p52a1598hcccf9aa0ed84a8e4@mail.gmail.com>

Friends,

This may have already been posted.  But I just heard about it myself.
The proposal is to fly a jet around the world on "biofuel."  The tests
were performed on canola biodiesel, eventually running B100
successfully.  The ambiguous language might be due to lack of
sophistication in their PR writer, or it may be that they intend to
blend biodiesel and ethanol.  (I'm guessing.)

http://www.greenflightinternational.com

The ultimate goal of Green Flight International is to fly around the
world in a jet on biofuel and they have taken the test flight already.
 They will take the first official flight right after Thanksgiving.
The pilots will take off from Reno, Nevada but the company heading it
up is from central Florida.


-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From mattr at biofuels.coop  Tue Nov 13 16:10:26 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:10:26 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] It's Supply and Demand, Silly
In-Reply-To: <743259.19062.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <743259.19062.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D374858-CD9E-403B-B0CA-E3B3B1613A9F@biofuels.coop>

John,
I appreciate your concern but rest assured that we have plenty of  
production capacity to keep our tanks filled, even if the price of  
diesel climbs about $3.50/gal.  A more realistic potential problem is  
that the 500 gallon tank is sucked down at an intensely fast rate,  
which would put pressure on us to make drives out to Raleigh and  
Carrboro every other day to keep the tanks filled.  One way we are  
addressing this scenario is by working to get in a new fuel delivery  
truck, that we hope to put into operation in the very near term.   
This will double our capacity to deliver fuel, and increase our  
reliability by having a back up delivery vehicle.

One more pertinent problem that we are currently having is that both  
our Raleigh and Carrboro pumps clogged over the past week.  We were  
able to get the Carrboro pump flowing again today, but the Raleigh  
pump is going to require some more work.  We will be working on it  
tomorrow afternoon and hopefully have it back online by the end of  
the day.

I hope this helps to ease some of your concerns.

Regards,
Matt

On Nov 13, 2007, at 1:11 PM, John Hollingsworth wrote:

> http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/13/news/economy/gas_prices/index.htm
>
> Since apparently no one cares that our inventory is
> about to be wiped out by demand, how about we put some
> money on it to make it interesting?
>
> Anyone want to start a pool on when the average NC
> diesel price will go north of $3.50?  I'd be willing
> to put $10 on December 1st.
>
> Then again, if this web site
> (http://www.internetautoguide.com/gas-prices/32-int/north-carolina/ 
> chatham/index.html)
> is accurate then we could crest $3.50 by
> Thanksgiving.
>
> I'm only going off of what I was told happened the
> last time the market price for petrodiesel went above
> our cost during the fuel crunch after Katrina and
> Rita.  Are we protected now?  Has the new production
> facility made this a moot point?  Do the laws of
> Supply and Demand magically not apply in Pittsboro?
>
> If I'm talking out of my hat, I wish someone (...
> paging Lyle, Rachel, Matt or Leif) would educate me
> and put my fears to rest.  I know you all are
> talking about this.  Can you share the plan with the
> rest of us...ya know...paying members of the co-op?
>
> With apologies for being snarky, this is an issue that
> could dramatically affect us and the silence is
> deafening.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Hollingsworth
>
>
>
>
>        
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> ______________
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
> Make Yahoo! your homepage.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

Matthew Rudolf
Piedmont Biofuels
www.biofuels.coop



From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com  Tue Nov 13 16:23:58 2007
From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:23:58 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Plant ethanol may help N.C.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24553.1194987871.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
References: <mailman.24553.1194987871.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
Message-ID: <1194989038.13623.1221135547@webmail.messagingengine.com>

thanks for that article, Denton. Something several of us talked about on
this listserv a bit ago is that biotech companies in NC have been
developing "uber yeasts" that convert scrap biomass into alcohol
(ethanol) instead of having to use corn. I am hesitant for several
reasons to get 100% behind the biotech companies and their GM/GMO
yeasts, but I sure would be happy if we could get away from using GM/GMO
corn (and don't get me started on the corn subsidies) and use [any type
of] waste for the biomass.

Plus, the cost of grain is causing trouble locally even:
http://www.aconews.com/articles/2007/11/13/noc/news/news11.txt
-- 
  Steve J. Rankin
  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com


From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Tue Nov 13 16:35:15 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:35:15 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Excellent article on federal RPS
Message-ID: <C35F90D3.19B7%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

>From the November 2007 Issue of Biomass Magazine

High-Voltage Debate Over Renewable Electricity Mandate
http://www.biomassmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=1334&q=&page=all
By Anduin Kirkbride McElroy

<SNIP>
The U.S. Congress is getting closer to passing a renewable electricity
mandate, which could mean dramatic growth for the biomass industry.
Ironically, the Southeastern states?the region most likely to benefit from
the development of the biomass industry?are resisting such a mandate.

Illinois and North Carolina recently enacted renewable electricity
standards, which mandate that a certain percentage of the state?s
electricity must come from renewable sources. With those additions, 25
states and the District of Columbia have passed some form of this policy,
most commonly referred to as a renewable portfolio standard (RPS).

With this kind of support, one would think that a federal RPS would be just
around the corner. And indeed, it has been?since 2001. The Senate has passed
a version of an RPS in three different Congresses, but each time it was
struck down by House Republicans, according to Leon Lowery, professional
staff for the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources. Now that the
Democrats are in control of Congress, an RPS might be closer to reality.

This summer, both houses of Congress passed major bills meant to promote
efficiency and wean the country from fossil fuels. Though the Senate bill
didn?t include an RPS, the House did approve a measure that would require 15
percent renewable energy by 2020. This is the first time the House has ever
passed an RPS. 

If an RPS becomes law, the biomass industry could see significant growth, as
it follows in the footsteps of other renewable mandates. The policy can be
compared with the renewable fuel standard (RFS) passed by Congress in the
2005 Energy Bill. The RFS mandated that an increasing percentage of the
motor fuel pool must be renewable fuel. This mandate spurred incredible
growth in the ethanol and biodiesel industries by guaranteeing a market for
the product. Many Washington policy experts agree that a national RPS has
the potential to do the same thing for various renewable industries,
including biomass. ?According to the [Energy Information Administration
(EIA)], our portfolio standard would result in a 50 percent increase in wind
generation and a 300 percent increase in biomass generation,? Lowery says.
?There's already twice as much biomass generation in the country as there is
wind generation.?
<ENDSNIP>



From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 18:38:57 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:38:57 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How to remove from yourself from the
	list (or switch to "digest")
Message-ID: <84a57a420711131538lc15ced8n3a17d0cf2e2407e1@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 13, 2007 4:21 PM, Kevin Rooney <rooneyassoc777 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> remove from list
>

Dear Kevin,

Sorry, this list is automated, and we can't remove you.  You can
remove yourself by clicking here:
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
... then scroll way down near the bottom of the page to "unsubscribe" yourself.

By the way, you might consider changing your subscription to "daily
digest" format.  Some folks have mentioned that they "get too many
emails from this list."  By choosing to receive the list in digest
form, you'll get all the posts compiled into one.  I personally find
it MUCH easier to read this way.

Hope this helps.

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From info at theforestfoundation.org  Tue Nov 13 18:53:07 2007
From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info -TFF)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:53:07 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] [Fwd: Continuing Ed courses at Wake Tech]
Message-ID: <473A38E3.9010702@theforestfoundation.org>

  
Biodiesel & Clean Diesel Technology

This fifteen hour course concentrates on the fuel, its chemistry, how
it is made and ASTM 
quality standards. The economics and environmental impact of various
feedstocks will be 
discussed. The class will produce a batch of WVO Biodiesel in lab as
part of the workshop. 
We will also discuss (in detail) the technical aspects of modern Diesel
engine management 
and new emission technologies such as particulate traps and NOx
reduction systems. Future 
fuels and technologies such as Biomass derived fuels and HCCI engines
will be covered. 
Learners will also have the opportunity to drive and examine several
Diesel vehicles in 
Lab. If you are considering purchasing a Diesel vehicle or becoming
involved in the 
production or use of biofuels, you should attend this workshop!
This class will be held during three evening sessions, 5-10 PM on
January 29,30 & 31, 
2008. The class will be repeated during two daytime sessions, 9-5 AM,
on February 26 & 27, 
2008.

Hybrid Vehicles Workshop

This ten hour course introduces the learner to hybrid vehicles.
Specific areas covered in 
detail include safety, how they work, high voltage batteries, three
phase motor/generators 
and "by wire" control for braking, throttle and traction systems. Basic
repair 
and maintenance procedures for most popular models will be covered and
vehicle specific 
quirks you need to know. We will also discuss Plug-in Hybrids and
Electric Vehicles. 
Learners will also have the opportunity to drive and examine several
hybrid vehicles in 
Lab. Anyone who owns or considering the purchase of a Hybrid vehicle
should attend this 
course. 
This class will be held during two evening sessions, 5-10 PM on
February 19 & 20, 2008. 
The class will be repeated, from 5-10 PM, on March 11 & 12, 2008.

Instructor for all sessions: Rich Cregar
Wake Technical Community College
 





From CConnor at luckstone.com  Wed Nov 14 08:11:18 2007
From: CConnor at luckstone.com (Chris . Connor)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:11:18 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] It's Supply and Demand, Silly
In-Reply-To: <3D374858-CD9E-403B-B0CA-E3B3B1613A9F@biofuels.coop>
Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B50EDDDDA4@5825-ml.luck.net>

For those of you that are interested in tracking prices on a bigger
scale, the attached link will take you to the Dept of Energy Site that
posts average prices.  You can also sign up to get weekly e-mail
notification when new prices are posted every Monday.  For the record,
NC is part of the Lower Atlantic Region.

 http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp


 


From sjhr2000 at mailcan.com  Wed Nov 14 11:12:08 2007
From: sjhr2000 at mailcan.com (Steve Rankin)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:12:08 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] New technique creates cheap,
	abundant hydrogen
Message-ID: <1195056728.22409.1221289685@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Interesting article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071112/ts_alt_afp/ussciencefuel;_ylt=AtsR4CkLSeNTGh1IRTTG0jkDW7oF
-- 
  Steve J. Rankin
  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com


From simonlobdell at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 16:07:06 2007
From: simonlobdell at gmail.com (Simon Lobdell)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:07:06 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] New technique creates cheap,
	abundant hydrogen
In-Reply-To: <1195056728.22409.1221289685@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1195056728.22409.1221289685@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <3527113b0711141307o1ae7f429pfeef079cf42e5394@mail.gmail.com>

I used to work in the labs with those folks.  It is an OK idea but it
is an order of magnitude more difficult than methane production
through anaerobic digestion. The bacteria doing the work are very weak
and when last I spoke to them they were using a genetically modified
organism that would never be able to compete with any naturally
occuring bacteria. The energy in to energy out is all good but there
really is no reason to look at hydrogen over methane if we are talking
about internal combustion fuel.  Most importantly, the microbial fuel
cell as it is called, relies on the use of a platinum catalyst and
will never be widely applicable using current technology.  Platinum is
just too damn expensive.

Finally, I would also note that when the author of the article talks
about acetate, it is really misnomer to call it a "dead end" byproduct
from the breakdown of glucose.  Acetate is about as bioavailable and
easily digestable material as you can find.  Now get the same bacteria
to try and do that with paper waste (cellulose, lignin, etc.) and you
are talking about large energy inputs to prepare the material for
digestion.  I never really understood what their idea was as far as
the social context for this technology.  It really falls more in to
the realm of "neato look what we can do!"

Simon

On Nov 14, 2007 11:12 AM, Steve Rankin <sjhr2000 at mailcan.com> wrote:
> Interesting article:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071112/ts_alt_afp/ussciencefuel;_ylt=AtsR4CkLSeNTGh1IRTTG0jkDW7oF
> --
>  Steve J. Rankin
>  sjhr2000 at mailcan.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>



-- 
Simon Lobdell, EIT
Environmental Engineer
(412) 855 2987

From lyle at blast.com  Thu Nov 15 09:39:46 2007
From: lyle at blast.com (Lyle Estill)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:39:46 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3.50/gallon
Message-ID: <7D131199-9113-466B-BC26-1A6074F65977@blast.com>

John and company:

Allow me to end the "deafening silence."

See http://energy.biofuels.coop/general/2007/11/15/price-intersection-2/

Comments welcome.


Lyle Estill
Piedmont Biofuels
www.biofuels.coop
919-321-8260
Fax: 919-321-6769



From panthercat at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 12:14:13 2007
From: panthercat at gmail.com (Carlos Thompson)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:14:13 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3.50/gallon
In-Reply-To: <7D131199-9113-466B-BC26-1A6074F65977@blast.com>
References: <7D131199-9113-466B-BC26-1A6074F65977@blast.com>
Message-ID: <4b6e46c90711150914x33876425wcb89cc3045a4bd3@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent Article...

A question from the "Quintiles IT TDI" club.  We have 5-6 VW TDI
drivers here that all know each other.  After I forwarded this article
to the group, one of them asked:

So if I've never run bio in my jetta. How many fuel filters would I go
through if I switched to b100?

Anybody care to answer?

Thanks,
Carlos


On 11/15/07, Lyle Estill <lyle at blast.com> wrote:
> John and company:
>
> Allow me to end the "deafening silence."
>
> See http://energy.biofuels.coop/general/2007/11/15/price-intersection-2/
>
> Comments welcome.

From markj.ambrose at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 12:37:59 2007
From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:37:59 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
In-Reply-To: <4b6e46c90711150914x33876425wcb89cc3045a4bd3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7D131199-9113-466B-BC26-1A6074F65977@blast.com>
	<4b6e46c90711150914x33876425wcb89cc3045a4bd3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <473C83F7.5000804@gmail.com>

I'm no expert here, but the simple answer is "it depends."

Fuel filters clogging when switching to biodiesel is from the gunk in 
the system that biodiesel, being a better solvent, loosens up.  So it 
depends how long the car was run on petrodiesel before switching to 
biodiesel.

-- Mark

Carlos Thompson wrote:
> Excellent Article...
>
> A question from the "Quintiles IT TDI" club.  We have 5-6 VW TDI
> drivers here that all know each other.  After I forwarded this article
> to the group, one of them asked:
>
> So if I've never run bio in my jetta. How many fuel filters would I go
> through if I switched to b100?
>
> Anybody care to answer?
>
> Thanks,
> Carlos
>
>
>   

From tavanas at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 13:45:47 2007
From: tavanas at gmail.com (t avanas)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:45:47 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3.50/gallon
In-Reply-To: <4b6e46c90711150914x33876425wcb89cc3045a4bd3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7D131199-9113-466B-BC26-1A6074F65977@blast.com>
	<4b6e46c90711150914x33876425wcb89cc3045a4bd3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <473C93DB.7060405@gmail.com>

i have been using  b100 from piedmont biofuels and others in my '99 
jetta tdi for about a year now.
the car had over 150k miles, i only changed the filter once. no other 
issues encountered.

- saeed
/One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics /
/is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. /
/ Plato 427-347 BC/

Carlos Thompson wrote:
> Excellent Article...
>
> A question from the "Quintiles IT TDI" club.  We have 5-6 VW TDI
> drivers here that all know each other.  After I forwarded this article
> to the group, one of them asked:
>
> So if I've never run bio in my jetta. How many fuel filters would I go
> through if I switched to b100?
>
> Anybody care to answer?
>
> Thanks,
> Carlos
>
>
> On 11/15/07, Lyle Estill <lyle at blast.com> wrote:
>   
>> John and company:
>>
>> Allow me to end the "deafening silence."
>>
>> See http://energy.biofuels.coop/general/2007/11/15/price-intersection-2/
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>   


From mike.helms at thepantry.com  Thu Nov 15 13:50:19 2007
From: mike.helms at thepantry.com (Mike Helms)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:50:19 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
Message-ID: <24B13F0D5E6C8540A590B0BE69E006BD20534716@co-exbe-01.thepantry.corp>

Has there been any studies on this?  Also if someone is running ULSD
then runs B-20, then runs ULSD and so on, would this cause the filters
to clog on each usage of B-20? 

-----Original Message-----
From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net
[mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of
Mark J. Ambrose
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:38 PM
To: Carlos Thompson
Cc: Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters

I'm no expert here, but the simple answer is "it depends."

Fuel filters clogging when switching to biodiesel is from the gunk in 
the system that biodiesel, being a better solvent, loosens up.  So it 
depends how long the car was run on petrodiesel before switching to 
biodiesel.

-- Mark

Carlos Thompson wrote:
> Excellent Article...
>
> A question from the "Quintiles IT TDI" club.  We have 5-6 VW TDI
> drivers here that all know each other.  After I forwarded this article
> to the group, one of them asked:
>
> So if I've never run bio in my jetta. How many fuel filters would I go
> through if I switched to b100?
>
> Anybody care to answer?
>
> Thanks,
> Carlos
>
>
>   
_______________________________________________
Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group


From francismiller at comcast.net  Thu Nov 15 14:55:03 2007
From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:55:03 -0700
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
In-Reply-To: <24B13F0D5E6C8540A590B0BE69E006BD20534716@co-exbe-01.thepantry.corp>
References: <24B13F0D5E6C8540A590B0BE69E006BD20534716@co-exbe-01.thepantry.corp>
Message-ID: <473CA417.1020703@comcast.net>

Dear Group: If any of you have questions re: fuel or oil filters, the 
national expert on such matters is Scott Galles at Galles Filter in 
Billings, Montana. Yes, UPS and FedX work between Billings and North 
Carolina. Scott's email address is:  <scottgfi at 180com.net>



Mike Helms wrote:

>Has there been any studies on this?  Also if someone is running ULSD
>then runs B-20, then runs ULSD and so on, would this cause the filters
>to clog on each usage of B-20? 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net
>[mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of
>Mark J. Ambrose
>Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:38 PM
>To: Carlos Thompson
>Cc: Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
>
>I'm no expert here, but the simple answer is "it depends."
>
>Fuel filters clogging when switching to biodiesel is from the gunk in 
>the system that biodiesel, being a better solvent, loosens up.  So it 
>depends how long the car was run on petrodiesel before switching to 
>biodiesel.
>
>-- Mark
>
>Carlos Thompson wrote:
>  
>
>>Excellent Article...
>>
>>A question from the "Quintiles IT TDI" club.  We have 5-6 VW TDI
>>drivers here that all know each other.  After I forwarded this article
>>to the group, one of them asked:
>>
>>So if I've never run bio in my jetta. How many fuel filters would I go
>>through if I switched to b100?
>>
>>Anybody care to answer?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Carlos
>>
>>
>>  
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>  
>


From matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com  Fri Nov 16 00:26:37 2007
From: matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com (Matthew Scott)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:26:37 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] (no subject)
Message-ID: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300804@MAIL092.mail.lan>

Hello All

I am aware of the new laws passed in NC concerning homebrewing for
personal use without having to pay taxes. VERY ENCOURAGING.

Does anybody have details or even who to contact on the state or local
level concerning homebrewing for ones business vehicles that are owned
by the person that is the DBA?

Thanks

Matt

From matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com  Fri Nov 16 00:35:23 2007
From: matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com (Matthew Scott)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:35:23 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Methanol Suppliers?
Message-ID: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300805@MAIL092.mail.lan>

Hello all,

Any suggestions on a supplier for methanol near the Asheville area. We
will probably need 4 barrels every two or three weeks. Right now we are
driving 3 hour to get it. Any leads on a closer source would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks 
Matt

From matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com  Fri Nov 16 00:36:30 2007
From: matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com (Matthew Scott)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:36:30 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Homebrewing Legalities?
Message-ID: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300806@MAIL092.mail.lan>

Hello All

I am aware of the new laws passed in NC concerning homebrewing for
personal use without having to pay taxes. VERY ENCOURAGING.

Does anybody have details or even who to contact on the state or local
level concerning homebrewing for ones business vehicles that are owned
by the person that is the DBA?

Thanks

Matt


From matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com  Fri Nov 16 00:39:45 2007
From: matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com (Matthew Scott)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:39:45 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Dry Washing Solutions?
Message-ID: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300807@MAIL092.mail.lan>

I am having a very difficult time finding good clear info on drywashing
procedures. Can anyone point me in the right direction for a good
resource on a supplier of Purolite, Amberlite, etc. Also looking for
input into design of a system that can handel 80 gallon batches on a
daily basis.

Thanks

Matt

From mweaver at misteam.net  Fri Nov 16 07:14:25 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:14:25 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Homebrewing Legalities?
In-Reply-To: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300806@MAIL092.mail.lan>
References: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300806@MAIL092.mail.lan>
Message-ID: <473D89A1.1000701@misteam.net>

Greetings Matthew:

You can check many local regulations at www.municode.com.  If nothing 
prohibits it you may wish to just go ahead - no reason to look for 
trouble with town hall.
I have not found anything that prohibits home brewing where I am in Va.  
I do my brewing in large shed.  I don't keep large quatities of
methanol here, though.  Anecdotally, 5 gallons or so seems to be a 
trigger-point on this; I make the point that
most homeowners around here have a similar amount of gas on hand for a 
lawnmower.

You may also wish to keep your lye and isoprop. in a locked cabinet; 
most inspectors are trained to look
for these materials, not with an eye towards BD brewers, but because 
they signal a meth. lab.

As for the oil, I keep it well-sealed so there is no odor.

So far I've been doing fine with the local zoning code inspector.  He 
thinks the whole BD scenario is cool and
has been an ally.  I downloaded and read the county and state codes so I 
was able to show him that there was no violation
and was careful to be very polite.  My SUV-driving, perfect lawn with 
tons of chemicals spread on them Mcmansion neighbors
called the county on me weekly when I started but seem to have given up.

I also keep a record with the amount I poured down the tank for 
state/local tax purposes.

Good luck!

-Mike

Matthew Scott wrote:

>Hello All
>
>I am aware of the new laws passed in NC concerning homebrewing for
>personal use without having to pay taxes. VERY ENCOURAGING.
>
>Does anybody have details or even who to contact on the state or local
>level concerning homebrewing for ones business vehicles that are owned
>by the person that is the DBA?
>
>Thanks
>
>Matt
>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From mackin at email.unc.edu  Fri Nov 16 07:47:08 2007
From: mackin at email.unc.edu (Will Mackin)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:47:08 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Solution to B100 issues
Message-ID: <553cdb6cb2ca2f00a7ffa731c2edf126@email.unc.edu>

After having Elbett SVO gelling problems on the coldest days of last 
winter, I installed a frostheater (frostheater.com) on my 2001 vw tdi 
this fall.

I just checked out the results. It's just an engine coolant heater that 
works by thermosiphoning.  I'm not sure it would allow you to run B100 
if you don't have an Elsbett kit with coolant heat exchanger and fuel 
filter heater, but I can report that the entire engine block (hot to 
touch), the fuel lines from the injection pump, and (to some extent) 
the injection pump are warm this morning after 2 hours of 
timer-activated, hot frostheater action.

I think I can now run almost anything and de-gel it with 190 F fuel 
returning to the tank.

I think you would be silly not to have one of these if you're running 
biodiesel this winter.

What to do about the gelling problems at the pumps in Raleigh and 
Carrboro? That's a problem for the experts.

Note: I do not work for or receive anything from Frostheater. I just 
wanted to share my satisfaction with that product to those of you who 
have been thinking about it. It's $100. It's also nice to have hot air 
to defrost the windows without having to wait 10 minutes or more.

I'll email you from the side of the highway If I get a clogged filter 
this morning

Will Mackin


From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com  Fri Nov 16 08:31:48 2007
From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:31:48 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3.50/gallon
In-Reply-To: <473C93DB.7060405@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F00D186F7D47B4BAB1E0C9C11D134BC01B4056C@NT000836.oak.zone1.progress-energy.com>

I have been running B10-B100 in my car for over two years now, and
initially I changed the filter once or twice, but after that, no
problems. Now, it's the usual... every so often.

Cheryl

-----Original Message-----
From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net
[mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of t
avanas
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:46 PM
To: Carlos Thompson
Cc: Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3.50/gallon


i have been using  b100 from piedmont biofuels and others in my '99 
jetta tdi for about a year now.
the car had over 150k miles, i only changed the filter once. no other 
issues encountered.

- saeed
/One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics /
/is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. /
/ Plato 427-347 BC/

Carlos Thompson wrote:
> Excellent Article...
>
> A question from the "Quintiles IT TDI" club.  We have 5-6 VW TDI
> drivers here that all know each other.  After I forwarded this article
> to the group, one of them asked:
>
> So if I've never run bio in my jetta. How many fuel filters would I go
> through if I switched to b100?
>
> Anybody care to answer?
>
> Thanks,
> Carlos
>
>
> On 11/15/07, Lyle Estill <lyle at blast.com> wrote:
>   
>> John and company:
>>
>> Allow me to end the "deafening silence."
>>
>> See
http://energy.biofuels.coop/general/2007/11/15/price-intersection-2/
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>   

_______________________________________________
Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From scottkins at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 09:31:29 2007
From: scottkins at gmail.com (brandon watkins)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:31:29 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Methanol Suppliers?
In-Reply-To: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300805@MAIL092.mail.lan>
References: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300805@MAIL092.mail.lan>
Message-ID: <74d946730711160631s154e78ejc59ea62379e64fc4@mail.gmail.com>

I dont know if this will be of any help, but if you can find a LP gas
equipment distributor, they should sell 55 gallon drums of methanol.

best of luck,


On Nov 16, 2007 12:35 AM, Matthew Scott
<matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Any suggestions on a supplier for methanol near the Asheville area. We
> will probably need 4 barrels every two or three weeks. Right now we are
> driving 3 hour to get it. Any leads on a closer source would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>



-- 
Brandon Watkins

From lsudduth at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 09:48:23 2007
From: lsudduth at gmail.com (Lee Sudduth)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:48:23 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
Message-ID: <4a5cfe4c0711160648t6e9496e8g498757d9cdc5bcf2@mail.gmail.com>

In August, I began running B100 in a 2004 Ford F-250 after my '99
Dodge 2500 was totaled in a wreck.  The F-250 clogged two sets of
filters after switching to B100, the first after the first couple of
tanks of fuel, the second during our first cold snap in September when
I still had unblended B100 in the tank.  Since then, I have changed
the filters once as part of scheduled maintenance, but I have not had
any further flow issues.  I'm now running B50 per the coop
recommendations, but will switch to B100 again in the Spring.

I have the idea that clogging two sets of filters is typical for any
vehicle that has several years of petrodiesel use.  Once you are past
the initial fuel system flush out chances are you will only need to
change filters at the normal maintenance intervals.  Still, learning
to do it yourself can save you on a cold morning when your brand new
filter is full of wax.

One other hard learned piece of advice on Fords, don't ever try to use
pliers to unscrew the plastic filter caps.  Spend the money for the
proper tool.

Regards,
-Lee

From David.Little at nc.usda.gov  Fri Nov 16 15:16:29 2007
From: David.Little at nc.usda.gov (Little, David - Wilson, NC)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:16:29 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Engine Storage
Message-ID: <1447032AC8D9F54AA935A2BEF04D86D9EA32E7@MOSTLOUIS2S301.ageast.one.usda.gov>

I have bought an extra engine and transmission for my 1981 VW Jetta and
want to know what is the best way to store them.  They will be kept
under a carport.

Thanks in advance.

Dave Little

From francismiller at comcast.net  Fri Nov 16 16:37:38 2007
From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:37:38 -0700
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Engine Storage
In-Reply-To: <1447032AC8D9F54AA935A2BEF04D86D9EA32E7@MOSTLOUIS2S301.ageast.one.usda.gov>
References: <1447032AC8D9F54AA935A2BEF04D86D9EA32E7@MOSTLOUIS2S301.ageast.one.usda.gov>
Message-ID: <473E0DA2.50701@comcast.net>

I would recommend keeping it under a carport.


Little, David - Wilson, NC wrote:

>I have bought an extra engine and transmission for my 1981 VW Jetta and
>want to know what is the best way to store them.  They will be kept
>under a carport.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Dave Little
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>  
>


From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 18:04:57 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:04:57 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] update on co-processing or "renewable
	diesel"
Message-ID: <84a57a420711161504j56e5b1f1r49648b3ae09186e6@mail.gmail.com>

Ya'll remember this: It's the problem with the oil majors getting the
biodiesel subsidy for pouring a lil chicken fat into their existing
refineries.  This text is from an NBB factsheet, and it describes
their stance and the status of possible legislative remedies.  Still
no final word yet from the Senate...

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Biodiesel, Renewable Diesel
& Co-Processed Renewable Diesel

What are Biodiesel, Renewable Diesel, and Co-Processed
Renewable Diesel?
? Biodiesel:  A fuel comprised of mono-alkyl esters of long chain fatty acids
derived from vegetable oils or animal fats that meets the fuel specification
requirements of ASTM D6751.  Produced in free-standing facilities.
? Renewable Diesel:  Defined in the Internal Revenue Code  (IRC) as fuel
produced from biological material using a process called "thermal
depolymerization" that meets the fuel specification requirements of ASTM
D975 (petroleum diesel fuel) or ASTM D396 (home heating oil).  Produced in
free-standing facilities.
? Co-Processed Renewable Diesel:  Renewable diesel that is produced when
an oil company adds small amounts vegetable oils or animal fats to the
traditional petroleum refining process when producing diesel fuel (co-
processing).  Scheduled to be produced in existing oil refineries.

Background
The JOBS Act of 2004 provided a $1.00 per gallon tax incentive for
biodiesel.  The
Energy Policy Act of 2005 extended the biodiesel credit through 2008 and
added a new $1.00 per gallon tax credit for renewable diesel.  When enacted,
the renewable diesel credit was meant to apply to a very specific, limited
technology.

In April 2007, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) issued regulatory
guidance that
broadly defined renewable diesel as including processes that allow integrated
oil companies to add minimum amounts of animal or vegetable oils to the
existing refining process ? co-processing - and claim the $1.00 per gallon
renewable diesel credit.

Why Co-Processed Renewable Diesel should not qualify for the $1 tax
incentive
In a time of budget deficits and rising fuel prices due in large part
to limited
domestic refining capacity, the National Biodiesel Board (NBB) questions the
wisdom of directing tax benefits to subsidize existing oil refining
operations at the
expense of free-standing producers of biodiesel and renewable diesel.  Co-
processed Renewable Diesel already qualifies for a 50 cent per gallon
tax credit
that is provided under current law.

? A key component of rising fuel prices is the lack of refining capacity in the
U.S.  Free-standing biodiesel and renewable diesel producers add both fuel
and refining capacity to the nation's diesel pool.  By contrast, the production
of co-processed renewable diesel adds no net new fuel and no new refining
capacity to the diesel pool.

? The availability of feedstock, such as animal fat and vegetable oils, is
essentially fixed.  The $1.00 renewable diesel tax credit is the motivation for
integrated oil companies engaged in co-processing.  This will clearly increase
demand for the feedstock needed to produce biodiesel and increase costs.
It is not wise for tax policy to drive tax incentives and limited feedstock to
support existing oil refining operations at the expense of biodiesel and free-
standing renewable diesel production.

? There are substantial economic benefits associated with domestic biodiesel
production.  Under current assumptions, the biodiesel industry is estimated to
support 39,102 jobs and add $24 billion to the economy between now and
2015.  The economic benefits associated with free-standing biodiesel
production could be lost if the $1.00 per gallon renewable diesel tax
incentive is directed to support operations in existing oil refineries.

Congress agrees with NBB
In 2007, the U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation that among other
things clarified that co-processed renewable diesel does not qualify for the $1
per gallon tax credit.  Renewable diesel from free-standing facilities would
continue to qualify for the $1 credit.  This mirrors bipartisan
legislation introduced
by U.S. Representatives Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) and Kenny Hulshof (R-MO) that the
NBB has endorsed.

The report issued by the U.S. House Committee on Ways and Means on June 27,
2007 to accompany H.R. 2776, the Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation
Tax Act of 2007, noted the following:

The Committee believes that the tax incentives for renewable diesel
should be used to encourage the building of new plants to provide new
refining capacity for renewable diesel.  The incentive was not intended to
subsidize existing petroleum refining capacity.  In the opinion of the
Committee, IRS Notice 2007-37, which permits the co-processing of
biomass with petroleum feedstocks, is inconsistent with the statutory
requirement that renewable diesel be derived from biomass.

September 2007

From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 18:29:08 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:29:08 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off-Topic: Farm Bill delays
Message-ID: <84a57a420711161529j1985a45ak839ddc8662918f98@mail.gmail.com>

Two choice articles, one from yesterday, another from today.  Bottom
line: Don't expect any progress until after Thanksgiving recess.
Which also means there is still time to call, write, fax, and fuss.
Whatever you fuss about, please make sure to encourage them to pass it
soon.
Thanks,

John


Farm Bill May Be Delayed Until 2009
Thursday, November 15, 2007; 7:05 PM

WASHINGTON -- The Senate farm bill may have to wait until after next
year's elections, Senate Agriculture Committee Chairman Tom Harkin
said Thursday.

The $286 billion bill, which extends agriculture and nutrition
programs, has been stalled for more than a week in the Senate, where
Republicans and Democrats are bickering over how many amendments to
the bill will be offered.

Harkin suggested Thursday that extending current farm law for one year
is an option if a Democratic attempt to cut off debate fails on
Friday. That move requires the votes of 60 of the 100 senators.

Republicans have balked at a Democratic attempt to limit amendments,
while Democrats are accusing Republicans of slowing the bill down.
Some Republicans want to offer amendments dealing with the alternative
minimum tax, immigration and other nonagricultural issues.

"If we can't get a farm bill through the Senate that came out of the
committee without one dissenting vote ... If we can't do that then
what's the use trying to do it next year with the same Senate?" asked
Harkin, D-Iowa.

Sensing an unbreakable Senate impasse, the top Republican on the House
Agriculture Committee said Thursday that he would support extending
the bill until Sept. 30, the end of the current budget year.

"The consequences of the Senate's inaction are already impacting the
planning decisions of our farmers and ranchers," said GOP Rep. Bob
Goodlatte of Virginia.

Goodlatte supported the farm bill passed by his committee but voted
against the bill in the full House after Democrats added a tax on some
foreign companies to pay for it. He was joined by more than 20 other
farm state Republicans in calling for the extension Thursday.

The Republicans said they would rather pass a new bill but Goodlatte
said the situation has become "most urgent" for farmers as weeks pass
by.

House Agriculture Committee Chairman Collin Peterson, D-Minn., said
talk of an extension is premature.

"The budget situation isn't getting any better, and a year from now,
we may have less money available to write the farm bill," he said.

In the Senate, Harkin said voting to continue debate would be "like
killing the farm bill."

"That's it, folks," he said. "That's the end of the ball game."

He said the bill might fare better under a new Congress and a new
president. The Bush administration has issued a veto threat against
the bill, saying it is too expensive and would pay wealthy farmers too
much. Bush also threatened to veto the House bill, which passed in
July.

"Bankers need to know and farmers need to know what the program will
be next year," Harkin said.

Despite opposition to the bill, the Bush administration discouraged an
extension.

"Priorities such as conservation, nutrition and renewable energy would
all be shelved without a new farm bill," said Acting Agriculture
Secretary Charles Conner in a statement Thursday. "There is still time
for Congress to pass a new farm bill."

The current farm law was passed in 2002 and parts of it have been
temporarily extended since it expired Sept. 30. The law governs farm
subsidies, rural development, programs to protect
environmentally-sensitive farm land and nutrition programs, including
food stamps.

The law is popular in farm country, but members of Congress and farm
groups have been reluctant to support an extension because the new
bill would provide increases for several crops and domestic nutrition
programs.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Senate Farm Bill Stalled on the Floor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On November 16, 2007, the U.S. Senate essentially voted to kill
the 2007 farm bill. When a vote to invoke cloture (ie, cut off debate) failed
55-42.  Deliberations began on the Farm, Nutrition, and Bioenergy Act of 2007
(H.R.2419)11 days ago, but quickly came to a screeching halt when majority
and minority leadership could not come to an agreement on amendments being
offered to the bill.

Major action
on the 2007 farm bill started in the House with the Agriculture
Committee's unanimous approval of the bill, which only came after long nights
of debate and compromise. The
House then passed the bill with a of vote 231-191 on July 27. The
House bill includes new investments in conservation, nutrition, specialty crops
(fruit and vegetable) and renewable energy production.  The bill
includes what Speaker
of the House
Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) says is a "critical first step toward reform."
The bill includes
several extensions to the
2002 Farm Bill Energy Title and many new energy and energy efficiency programs.
Programs include loan guarantees for biorefineries; grants for internships in
bioenergy, woody-biomass energy research and demonstration; and several other
biomass and renewable energy-related programs.

Official
Senate action started on October 4, when the Senate Finance
Committee's voted 17-4
to approve the Heartland, Habitat,
Harvest, and Horticulture Act of 2007 (S. 2242 or "4-H Bill"). This long
awaited tax package created a permanent agriculture disaster program, converted
some conservation payments into optional tax credits, created incentives for
economic development, and expanded and extended tax provisions for renewable
fuels. This bill also provided an additional $3 billion in funding for the
Senate Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry Committee's farm bill.

Under the leadership of Chairman Tom Harkin (D-IA), the
Senate Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry Committee reported out of committee
(on a voice vote) The Food and Energy
Security Act (S.2302) on October 25. The $1.1 billion Energy Title in this bill
also includes important
extensions to the existing Renewable Energy Systems and Energy Efficiency
Improvements Program (Sec. 9006), renamed Rural Energy for America
Program. Furthermore,
this bill included a new program called Bioenergy Crop Transition Assistance;
this program will help mitigate the risk for farmers interested in
transitioning into perennial feedstocks for power, fuels and biobased products.
Sen. Harkin then kicked off floor debate on November 5 with great
bipartisan support.
In his opening statement he identified and thanked Ranking Member Saxby
Chambliss (R-GA) and other leading Senators for months of work on the formation
of the bill. After a day of these speeches, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid
(D-NV) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) brought things back to
reality.

With a little over a month of legislative days left in the 2007
calendar, few of the 12 appropriations bills passed or signed by the president,
a huge energy bill pending conference, veto threats from the president on
almost every bill going through Congress and several other bills still pending
action - partisan party politics took over.

The tick of the political clock was very loud during the debate
on the farm bill. While the Senate majority
leader said the week would be devoted to passage of the farm bill, the need to
pass other significant legislation as well as gridlock over the farm bill
interrupted Senate debate several times. With the introduction of
amendments that
could take up a lot of time on
the floor and which did not pertain directly to agriculture, such as
immigration, the estate tax, the alternative minimum tax and a renewable fuel
standard, the majority leader decided to limit debate to relevant amendments to
the farm bill only by filing a request for "unanimous consent" to do
so. Unfortunately,
for Reid, Ranking Member
Chambliss objected. Since in the Senate it only takes one Senator to object to
a 'unanimous consent request' to prevent the legislation from moving forward
Reid had to try another procedure called 'filling the amendment tree.' This
parliamentary tactic, which any Senator can do and which has been done many
times before, blocks all other amendments from being considered unless a "limb"
of the tree comes open.

On the whole, this complicated farm bill has had a bumpy
ride. In addition to a tight budget year, a short time period for actual debate
on the bill, procedural gridlock and an eventual difficult conference,
President George W. Bush has threatened to veto the bill. Given all this, it
now appears that the bill will not be brought back to the Senate floor
this year.
The authorization of the current farm bill expired on September 3rd
and some members
of Congress, such as
Representative Jerry Moran (R-KS), are now discussing the possibility of a one
year extension.  Other lawmakers think a
longer term extension (2-years) may be more productive given the complications
of an election year on legislative priorities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

***This article will be published on RenewableEnergyAccess.com
[http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001UVSqzl_pjcM3g2xHuhezkWKxTNJnq90XsPmU6a4xOfTJ3E7HRCPktz7NYwZvdoNk07NeCoR0VeCP-sSsjZaLaqvCXclZtTvCGLG0OjZv7szo7n68BgZDTPN7Cs9POiE_OMqTrOXsYak2hrbZQupN8A==]
in the next few days.***
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quick Links
Environmental and Energy Study Insititute
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About Environmental and Energy Study Institute

EESI is a national nonprofit that works to advance a cleaner, more
secure and sustainable
energy path. EESI was established in 1984 by a bipartisan group of Congressional
 environmental and energy leaders to meet the critical need for
rigorous, informed
debate, independent analysis and innovative policy development related to energy
 and environmental issues.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Environmental and Energy Study Institute
Jetta Wong
Agriculture and Energy Senior Policy Associate

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 18:39:56 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:39:56 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Homebrew Legalities
Message-ID: <84a57a420711161539kb3924a3scb6ad3f0f0fd1ae4@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to thank Matt Scott for posing this question.  I'd also like
to underscore the important distinction here: The new laws give
exemption to individuals, but not businesses.

Businesses and farmers are no less in need of the exemption than are
individuals.  Many of our state's small businesses would easily fit
under the 5,000 gallon per year cap on the homebrew biodiesel tax
exemption.

Can anyone help us figure out, on behalf of our state's farmers and
small businesses, what are they expected to do?

Is NC Dept of Revenue really going to come looking for that $2000 bond
from a farmer with a 50 gallon appleseed reactor?

I have already heard that DOR has smacked a few farmers with fines for
driving off-road fuel in silage trucks (i.e., vehicles that  drive
many more miles on dirt than on pavement).  Are they going to be
similarly punitive towards nominally for-profit biodieselers, now that
the legislature has taken a stand on a related constituency?

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:36:30 -0500
From: "Matthew Scott" <matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com>
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Homebrewing Legalities?
To: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Message-ID: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300806 at MAIL092.mail.lan>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"

Hello All

I am aware of the new laws passed in NC concerning homebrewing for
personal use without having to pay taxes. VERY ENCOURAGING.

Does anybody have details or even who to contact on the state or local
level concerning homebrewing for ones business vehicles that are owned
by the person that is the DBA?

Thanks

Matt



------------------------------

From wrenchwench at blast.com  Fri Nov 16 19:31:08 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:31:08 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: E85 workshop Dec. 5
References: <02e701c82889$75232fd0$1800a8c0@cleancities>
Message-ID: <3B7B6499-972D-423C-AE10-A3D3ACDB806D@blast.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Tobin Freid" <tobin at tjcog.org>
> Date: November 16, 2007 2:46:23 PM EST
> To: <tcc at tjcog.org>
> Subject: E85 workshop Dec. 5
>
> Ethanol: Building a Business Case
>
> Attend this workshop and learn about North Carolina E85  
> infrastructure requirements, pricing and economics of ethanol  
> distribution, vehicle availability, funding assistance and  
> partnership opportunities!
>
> December 4 in Winston Salem (DENR Regional Office)
> December 5 in Raleigh (DENR Central Office)
> December 6 in Mooresville (DENR Regional Office)
>
> The workshops will take place from 12:00-3:00 and are held directly  
> after the Department of Natural Resources UST Division's workshops  
> on the new underground storage tank system requirements.
>
> A $20 workshop fee includes lunch. Call 919-558-9400 or go to
> www.cleantransportation.org by November 30 to register.
>
> Tobin L. Freid
> Project Coordinator for Energy and Environment
> Triangle J Council of Governments
> (919) 558-9400
>
> -- Triangle J Council of Governments is a Best Workplace for  
> Commuters -- 


From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 19:44:16 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:44:16 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] algae development
Message-ID: <84a57a420711161644o6c4a6507mc07f1436720b7f5c@mail.gmail.com>

Green Star Products, Inc. (GSPI) has signed a contract to build a
100-acre commercial algae facility in the midwest with consortium
partner Biotech Research, Inc.  Construction is set to begin in March,
2008.  The new facility will be built adjacent to an existing
biodiesel plant and will use the CO2 emitted from the biodiesel
plant's boilers to feed a portion of the algae facility needs.

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From mbcahoon at blast.com  Fri Nov 16 22:42:20 2007
From: mbcahoon at blast.com (Mary Beth Cahoon)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:42:20 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
Message-ID: <5BCDD5AD-DE5E-4DCB-9990-736A3E6FF728@blast.com>

When replacing a fuel filter does the new one need to be COMPLETELY  
filled with fuel when you screw it on?  I just replaced one  (thanks  
for the special wrench Jim!)  filled with fuel from the used filter  
but it didn't fill it completely.  The car will not start now - could  
this be the cause?

MB Cahoon


From mattr at biofuels.coop  Fri Nov 16 23:33:43 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:33:43 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Homebrew Legalities
In-Reply-To: <84a57a420711161539kb3924a3scb6ad3f0f0fd1ae4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84a57a420711161539kb3924a3scb6ad3f0f0fd1ae4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6794EBFB-EF61-4279-9723-B7CBDD125CDB@biofuels.coop>

No, in fact the DOR is going around contacting people that have  
posted the bond offering to return it, after an audit to make sure  
the organization or person has been remitting road tax.


On Nov 16, 2007, at 6:39 PM, John Bonitz wrote:

> I'd like to thank Matt Scott for posing this question.  I'd also like
> to underscore the important distinction here: The new laws give
> exemption to individuals, but not businesses.
>
> Businesses and farmers are no less in need of the exemption than are
> individuals.  Many of our state's small businesses would easily fit
> under the 5,000 gallon per year cap on the homebrew biodiesel tax
> exemption.
>
> Can anyone help us figure out, on behalf of our state's farmers and
> small businesses, what are they expected to do?
>
> Is NC Dept of Revenue really going to come looking for that $2000 bond
> from a farmer with a 50 gallon appleseed reactor?
>
> I have already heard that DOR has smacked a few farmers with fines for
> driving off-road fuel in silage trucks (i.e., vehicles that  drive
> many more miles on dirt than on pavement).  Are they going to be
> similarly punitive towards nominally for-profit biodieselers, now that
> the legislature has taken a stand on a related constituency?
>
> -- 
> John Bonitz
> Silk Hope, NC
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:36:30 -0500
> From: "Matthew Scott" <matthew.scott at morningdewlandscapes.com>
> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Homebrewing Legalities?
> To: <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
> Message-ID: <73AC256AEF2DB44E856796D508A5A395300806 at MAIL092.mail.lan>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hello All
>
> I am aware of the new laws passed in NC concerning homebrewing for
> personal use without having to pay taxes. VERY ENCOURAGING.
>
> Does anybody have details or even who to contact on the state or local
> level concerning homebrewing for ones business vehicles that are owned
> by the person that is the DBA?
>
> Thanks
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

Matthew Rudolf
Piedmont Biofuels
www.biofuels.coop



From mattr at biofuels.coop  Sun Nov 18 02:00:06 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 02:00:06 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: listserve
References: <BLU110-W1082A2F4A3127C43DECEF1C57C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2363CB21-2BCE-4D6B-9056-BEF52A2E09BE@biofuels.coop>

please contact seller directly.

Begin forwarded message:

> --Forwarded Message Attachment--
> From: bracketb at hotmail.com
> To: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net
> Subject: 1982 datsun diesel for sale
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 00:51:43 +0000
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am selling a 1982 Datsun diesel SD 22 truck. It's a very reliable  
> small-sized truck with king cab, camper top, hitch, manual  
> transmission, and low mileage at 161k. Aside from some cosmetic  
> issues the truck runs great. I need to sell it because I am moving  
> abroad. I am asking $5,000 although the price is negotiable, and I  
> am happy to provide more detailed information if you email me:   
> bmhood at gmail.com
>
> Thanks,
> Braxton
>
>

Matthew Rudolf
Piedmont Biofuels
www.biofuels.coop



From rickyb at rickyb.net  Sun Nov 18 06:05:33 2007
From: rickyb at rickyb.net (Rick Blevins)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 06:05:33 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
In-Reply-To: <5BCDD5AD-DE5E-4DCB-9990-736A3E6FF728@blast.com>
References: <5BCDD5AD-DE5E-4DCB-9990-736A3E6FF728@blast.com>
Message-ID: <47401C7D.4030700@rickyb.net>

Yes it does and I usually use some sort of diesel injector 
cleaner/setane booster from an auto place. You can fill the filter with 
only that and it should fire right up and clean everything at the same 
time. I found that trick on line at the tdi club

Mary Beth Cahoon wrote:
> When replacing a fuel filter does the new one need to be COMPLETELY  
> filled with fuel when you screw it on?  I just replaced one  (thanks  
> for the special wrench Jim!)  filled with fuel from the used filter  
> but it didn't fill it completely.  The car will not start now - could  
> this be the cause?
>
> MB Cahoon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>
>   


From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Sun Nov 18 07:22:51 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:22:51 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] The VW 1 Litre: 62 miles on 1.3 qts of
	fuel
Message-ID: <20071118.072251.19068.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>

FYI;

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm


From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Sun Nov 18 07:29:29 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:29:29 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
Message-ID: <20071118.072929.19068.1@webmail02.dca.untd.com>

I would be careful about that-- you need to maintain lubricity at all times. I keep some Diesel on hand in a one gallon can, or use ATF (any automatic transmission fluid)to prime the filter. Diesel additives are designed to enter the fuel system under high dilution. Subjecting the system to these additives "neat" could cause scoring of metal surfaces, glow plug failure from detonation, etc. 

-Rich Cregar  


From mbcahoon at blast.com  Sun Nov 18 13:47:39 2007
From: mbcahoon at blast.com (Mary Beth Cahoon)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:47:39 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Dagmar is alive (WAS Fuel Filters)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.24887.1195388750.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
References: <mailman.24887.1195388750.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
Message-ID: <587B69D2-DEA2-4D72-BD09-A59912A1D591@blast.com>


On Nov 18, 2007
>
> When replacing a fuel filter does the new one need to be COMPLETELY
> filled with fuel when you screw it on?  ...

> ...The car will not start now - could this be the cause?
>
> MB Cahoon


Thanks to all the suggestions and encouragement from the list, Dagmar  
is happy and running once again.  Much obliged gang!  : D

mb



From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Mon Nov 19 00:09:05 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 05:09:05 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] The Liberty CRD is history
Message-ID: <20071119.000905.25518.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

Well folks, I done did it!
The 05 Liberty CRD no longer sits in the carport. After 30k miles we traded it in for a Grand Cherokee Diesel. I did a measured fuel economy run with both vehicles and data suggests the new G.C.-D gets about .5 better MPG than the CRD doing a city-highway drive cycle. (With Blu-Tec!) The addition of Piezo injectors, Variable Nozzle Turbo and lower compression ratio in the G.C.-D all would contribute to this finding. 
By the way, don't know what happened to Jeep's "B5 Factory Fill" that Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Oh) announced with such flair 3 years ago. Don't know what was in the tank when we took delivery but whatever it was, there was only about 3 gallons of it with 40 miles on the odometer! Maybe they mean 5 gal of B5? When I have time I will inquire with the folks in Toledo about that. (The dealer did provide a full tank of ULSD from the local Kangaroo Station.
Initial impression; This is a Mercedes E 320D with a Jeep body & chassis wrapped around it. It is a very sweet ride. 

Rich Cregar


From evan at biofuels.coop  Mon Nov 19 10:09:03 2007
From: evan at biofuels.coop (Evan Ashworth)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:09:03 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
In-Reply-To: <5BCDD5AD-DE5E-4DCB-9990-736A3E6FF728@blast.com>
References: <5BCDD5AD-DE5E-4DCB-9990-736A3E6FF728@blast.com>
Message-ID: <04C7C0E2-78C1-4EC0-ACAC-AF8C2B1F54B1@biofuels.coop>

MB,

If the filter wasn't full enough you may have pulled air into your  
fuel lines, which would keep the car from starting.

See if you can find someone who knows how to crack the injectors on  
the engine--loosen the bolts at the end of the injector lines one at  
a time, and crank the engine until fuel squirts out.  Tighten that  
bolt, and then move on to the next one.  This will purge the air out  
of the fuel system.

Also, you never want to use the fuel from a used filter to fill a new  
one. . .then you're pouring the gunk that's clogging your filter into  
the fresh one.

Hope that helps,

-Evan



On Nov 16, 2007, at 10:42 PM, Mary Beth Cahoon wrote:

> When replacing a fuel filter does the new one need to be COMPLETELY
> filled with fuel when you screw it on?  I just replaced one  (thanks
> for the special wrench Jim!)  filled with fuel from the used filter
> but it didn't fill it completely.  The car will not start now - could
> this be the cause?
>
> MB Cahoon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group


From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com  Mon Nov 19 14:39:50 2007
From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:39:50 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] water heater wanted
Message-ID: <4741E686.3010407@localb100.com>

Hi folks,

I'm permanently living here now in Moncure (the co-op has a way of
dragging people in) and am looking for an electric water heater to build
an oil dewatering setup and/or a better methanol recovery still. Anyone
got a spare one sitting around? I'm hoping to use something other than a
low-boy if possible, which I already have and dislike. The bigger, the
better, for this particular application. I can pick up.

Mark

From wrenchwench at blast.com  Wed Nov 21 21:54:00 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 21:54:00 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] alternative means to heat your home
References: <20071116231828.5e5burm5ckkooko0@webmail7.isis.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <400A52A3-8F72-412F-BB1B-DD4775995ADB@blast.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: terhorst at email.unc.edu
> Date: November 16, 2007 11:18:28 PM EST
> To: Rachel Burton <wrenchwench at blast.com>
> Subject: forward survey link to the big list?
>
>
> There is a survey on home heating related to the use of wood pellets:
>
> http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?p=WEB2275PBDNKDN
>
> What thoughts do you have on using alternative means to heat your  
> home?


From mbcahoon at blast.com  Sun Nov 25 20:16:53 2007
From: mbcahoon at blast.com (Mary Beth Cahoon)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:16:53 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel on Wikipedia
Message-ID: <FF333F8A-7DBA-4072-B4A5-8265047B7E14@blast.com>

Would anyone care to edit the Wikipedia entry for "Biodiesel" to get  
it up to their quality standards?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com  Mon Nov 26 13:08:30 2007
From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:08:30 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
In-Reply-To: <20071118.072929.19068.1@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <8F00D186F7D47B4BAB1E0C9C11D134BC01B40580@NT000836.oak.zone1.progress-energy.com>

I recently had someone tell me that they know people using ATF as fuel
in their diesel vehicles. I mentioned that it can't possibly be good as
far as emissions go. Has anyone heard of anyone else doing this?

Cheryl


-----Original Message-----
From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net
[mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of
rudolfdiesel at netzero.net
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:29 AM
To: rickyb at rickyb.net
Cc: mbcahoon at blast.com; Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters


I would be careful about that-- you need to maintain lubricity at all
times. I keep some Diesel on hand in a one gallon can, or use ATF (any
automatic transmission fluid)to prime the filter. Diesel additives are
designed to enter the fuel system under high dilution. Subjecting the
system to these additives "neat" could cause scoring of metal surfaces,
glow plug failure from detonation, etc. 

-Rich Cregar  

_______________________________________________
Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From rudolfdiesel at netzero.net  Mon Nov 26 14:07:47 2007
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net (rudolfdiesel at netzero.net)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:07:47 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
Message-ID: <20071126.140747.20211.1@webmail08.dca.untd.com>


The thing about ATF is it contains alot of detergent. This is necessary to prevent any lacquers or oils creating deposits on internal transmission components. The detergent in the ATF is always breaking those types of deposits down. Of course ATF will perform the same function in a diesel fuel system. The strong detergents in the ATF clean the internal components of the injection system and tank!
I know of truckers who collect used ATF from auto shops and mix it with their diesel with no reported ill effects. 
I do not know the chemical formulation of ATF, but if it contains inorganic materials or metals it would be bad for any 2007 or newer emission system. 
Remember that the Germans still call Diesels "Oil Motors". They are quite happy running on the heavier hydro-carbons used for lubrication!


From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com  Mon Nov 26 14:30:25 2007
From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:30:25 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
In-Reply-To: <20071126.140747.20211.1@webmail08.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <8F00D186F7D47B4BAB1E0C9C11D134BC01B40582@NT000836.oak.zone1.progress-energy.com>

Thanks for the information. They probably use it the way you explain it,
mixed with diesel fuel. He said it was free, so I assumed he meant it
was used ATF that they acquired from a garage or someplace. I guess if
it doesn't contain volatile chemicals that a Catalytic converter cant
break down, it may be ok.

Cheryl

-----Original Message-----
From: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net [mailto:rudolfdiesel at netzero.net] 
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:08 PM
To: Ganter, Cheryl
Cc: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net;
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters



The thing about ATF is it contains alot of detergent. This is necessary
to prevent any lacquers or oils creating deposits on internal
transmission components. The detergent in the ATF is always breaking
those types of deposits down. Of course ATF will perform the same
function in a diesel fuel system. The strong detergents in the ATF clean
the internal components of the injection system and tank!
I know of truckers who collect used ATF from auto shops and mix it with
their diesel with no reported ill effects. 
I do not know the chemical formulation of ATF, but if it contains
inorganic materials or metals it would be bad for any 2007 or newer
emission system. 
Remember that the Germans still call Diesels "Oil Motors". They are
quite happy running on the heavier hydro-carbons used for lubrication!


From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com  Mon Nov 26 15:45:23 2007
From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:45:23 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] soap test procedure using sulfuric acid?
Message-ID: <474B3063.8030705@localb100.com>

Hi folks,

Has anyone done the standard soap test using sulfuric acid instead of
hydrochloric? What concentration of acid-water did you use and how did
you do the calculations?

Mark

From jcbaron at verizon.net  Mon Nov 26 16:36:05 2007
From: jcbaron at verizon.net (Jim Baron)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:36:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters
Message-ID: <2315982.19618291196112965859.JavaMail.root@vms071.mailsrvcs.net>

>From: "Ganter, Cheryl" <Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com>
>Date: 2007/11/26 Mon PM 01:30:25 CST
>To: rudolfdiesel at netzero.net
>Cc: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net, 
	Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel filters

>Thanks for the information. They probably use it the way you explain it,
>mixed with diesel fuel. He said it was free, so I assumed he meant it
>was used ATF that they acquired from a garage or someplace. I guess if
>it doesn't contain volatile chemicals that a Catalytic converter cant
>break down, it may be ok.
>
>Cheryl
>

Two extra points in one: years ago, early VW diesel mechanics were told to fill a new fuel filter with ATF before installing it, but only with a warm motor, so it would start easily.  Then the ATF would flush out the fuel system and spread into the tank through the bypass as the engine ran for the first few minutes.  However, that was in the days of natural petroleum ATF, whereas most of the content of contemporary Dexron III is apt to be synthetic.  In fact, the high detergent component of old GM type A hydramatic fluid used to be whale oil, which makes excellent diesel fuel, but as harvestable whales became scarce, the Dexron/Mercon type was developed.  I suspect that type F might still work well in this way, though.


Jim Baron
Senex

From jcbaron at verizon.net  Mon Nov 26 17:08:49 2007
From: jcbaron at verizon.net (Jim Baron)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:08:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] CORRECTION
Message-ID: <11838374.19629371196114929968.JavaMail.root@vms071.mailsrvcs.net>

The whale oil was actually a friction modifier, not a detergent.

Type F never had any whale oil, because the Borg-Warners and Fordomatics didn't need friction modifiers.

>Two extra points in one: years ago, early VW diesel mechanics were told to fill a new fuel filter with ATF before installing it, but only with a warm motor, so it would start easily.  Then the ATF would flush out the fuel system and spread into the tank through the bypass as the engine ran for the first few minutes.  However, that was in the days of natural petroleum ATF, whereas most of the content of contemporary Dexron III is apt to be synthetic.  In fact, the high detergent component of old GM type A hydramatic fluid used to be whale oil, which makes excellent diesel fuel, but as harvestable whales became scarce, the Dexron/Mercon type was developed.  I suspect that type F might still work well in this way, though.
>
>
>Jim Baron
>Senex
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group


Jim Baron
Senex

From mweaver at misteam.net  Mon Nov 26 18:04:29 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:04:29 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] CORRECTION - Good News/Bad News
In-Reply-To: <11838374.19629371196114929968.JavaMail.root@vms071.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <11838374.19629371196114929968.JavaMail.root@vms071.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <474B50FD.6080906@misteam.net>

The Good News is: I've been using biodiesel for years now.
The Bad News is: It's whale oil.

Sounds like a Washington Post Contest


Jim Baron wrote:

>The whale oil was actually a friction modifier, not a detergent.
>
>Type F never had any whale oil, because the Borg-Warners and Fordomatics didn't need friction modifiers.
>
>  
>
>>Two extra points in one: years ago, early VW diesel mechanics were told to fill a new fuel filter with ATF before installing it, but only with a warm motor, so it would start easily.  Then the ATF would flush out the fuel system and spread into the tank through the bypass as the engine ran for the first few minutes.  However, that was in the days of natural petroleum ATF, whereas most of the content of contemporary Dexron III is apt to be synthetic.  In fact, the high detergent component of old GM type A hydramatic fluid used to be whale oil, which makes excellent diesel fuel, but as harvestable whales became scarce, the Dexron/Mercon type was developed.  I suspect that type F might still work well in this way, though.
>>
>>
>>Jim Baron
>>Senex
>>_______________________________________________
>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>    
>>
>
>
>Jim Baron
>Senex
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From nmcknight78 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 26 21:10:23 2007
From: nmcknight78 at yahoo.com (nikki mcknight)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:10:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1990 Mercedes 300D 2.5 turbo for sale
Message-ID: <517631.30730.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I'm selling my 1990 300D 2.5 turbo Mercedes.  It's got
253K and frankly needs a lot of TLC.  The exterior
body is ok, no rust or major body damage; but there is
a small dent on the trunk and it could definitely use
a new paint job.  It is drivable and I drive it
regularly, but the engine often bucks when changing
gears.  To be frank, here is a list of the basic
things that need repairs:

-needs timing chain and tensioner
-the back two passenger windows no longer go down d/t
problems with their individual motors
-the ac/heat doesn't work, needs new blower motor
and/or blower speed control and freon
-the original radio/cassette deck no longer works and
needs to be replaced
-the trunk doesn't lock

The safety inspection is up to date as of May 2007. 
The sunroof and power seats still work and are in good
condition.

I'm pricing it at $1500 obo.  Feel free to e-mail or
call me at 919.382.7207 if you're interested.

Thanks,
Nikki McKnight


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Tue Nov 27 11:02:07 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:02:07 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Off-Topic: Stop the Coal Rush
Message-ID: <C371A9AF.1B09%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

Friends,

You may be aware that the US is undergoing a rush to build new coal-fired
power plants.  There are currently 138 new plants proposed in the US.  The
following map illustrates their distribution:
http://www.sierraclub.org/maps/coal.asp

(Note that you can click on each dot and to read more info on each plant,
including status updates.)

My organization is opposed to construction of new coal plants in light of
anthropogenic climate change, unless provision is made for secure capture
and storage of the fossil-CO2 emitted by coal-firing.  Climate skeptics may
disagree with this, but may agree that investment in energy efficiency and
affordable renewable power is a far more intelligent path than one which
brings more mountaintop removal, acid rain, dangerous airborne particulates,
and mercury contamination of edible fish.

Among the many affordable renewable energies, biopower will boost our rural
economy, and give farmers and forestland-owners additional markets for their
low-value biomass materials.  This is especially important here in North
Carolina and in the Southeast, where our furniture, paper and pulp
industries have been hard hit by global economics.

I welcome everyone to join us in our efforts to stop the Cliffside Coal
Plant proposed for western North Carolina.
http://www.cleanenergy.org/programs/hottopic.cfm?ID=71

If you live elsewhere, please join the efforts in your local community.

Sincerely,

John

~ ~ ~

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org


Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that
create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy
communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
http://www.cleanenergy.org.



From markj.ambrose at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 16:49:08 2007
From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:49:08 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel Vehicles at Auction
Message-ID: <474C90D4.8020709@gmail.com>

I thought some folks on the list might find this useful.  Periodically 
the gov't auctions off surplus vehicles, and occasionally there are 
diesels available.
Info on items being auctioned are available at:

http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/

You can search by state and item category and/or type in key words.

Unfortunately, the nearest site to the Triangle where vehicles are 
typically being auctioned is Asheville.  At the moment, the only diesel 
there are 2 1997 Chevy dump trucks.  There are other unusual diesel 
vehicles being auctioned at other locations.  Be aware that most of the 
surplus vehicles in Asheville were used by the Forest  Service (notice 
the lovely pale green color), so though they may have relatively low 
mileage, they may have been used hard on rough roads.  The same goes for 
Forest Service vehicles on auction at other locations.

-- Mark

From leif at biofuels.coop  Wed Nov 28 23:56:52 2007
From: leif at biofuels.coop (Leif Forer)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:56:52 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] SFGreasecycle
References: <168A2569-A96F-4DEF-9F24-A54267033FFB@biofuels.coop>
Message-ID: <2ADA9F03-7517-44D2-8D7F-F02B1681A638@biofuels.coop>

San Francisco has a city sponsored grease to biofuels program.  Very  
cool:  http://www.sfgreasecycle.org/

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Tuesday, November 20, 2007
Contact: Mayor?s Office of Communications, 415-554-6131
              Tyrone Jue, SFPUC, 415-554-3247

*** PRESS RELEASE ***

MAYOR NEWSOM LAUNCHES SFGREASECYCLE ? THE NATION?S FIRST CITYWIDE  
PROGRAM THAT COLLECTS WASTE GREASE TO CREATE BIOFUEL FOR MUNICIPAL FLEET

SAN FRANCISCO, CA ? In an effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,  
combat climate change and curb the growing number of clogged sewers  
plaguing City residents and businesses, Mayor Gavin Newsom today  
launched an innovative solution to collect fats, oil and grease (FOG)  
free of charge from City restaurants and turn them into biofuel for  
City-owned vehicles. SFGreasecycle is the nation?s first citywide  
program to turn FOG into fuel for municipal fleets and will save  
residents and businesses money, unclog City sewers, and reduce  
greenhouse gas emissions. The first SFGreasecycle restaurant waste  
grease pickup occurred today at Puccini and Pinetti in Union Square.

"San Francisco?s entrepreneurial and environmental spirit is once  
again front and center with our innovative biodiesel creation  
program," said Mayor Newsom. "Our program will serve as a model for  
cities throughout the world who aim to transform their grease waste  
into useable, sustainable energy."

SFGreasecycle is a program that was developed by the San Francisco  
Public Utilities Commission (SFPUC) as a sustainable alternative to  
combat sewer blockages caused in part by excess cooking oils and fats  
discharged down drains from restaurants and homes. Each year, the  
SFPUC estimates that 50% of sewer emergency calls are related to  
backups caused by grease blockages costing their ratepayers $3.5  
million a year in repairs.

"We?re taking a serious City problem and using the best available  
technology to save our ratepayers? money and do something good for  
the environment," said SFPUC General Manager Susan Leal. "For every 5  
gallons of grease we collect and keep out of our sewers, we displace  
5 gallons of petroleum diesel. That is a net 100 pound reduction in  
carbon emission."

San Francisco, a national leader in initiatives to reduce greenhouse  
gas emissions, has a City fleet of more than 1600 diesel vehicles  
being retrofitted to accept the new biofuel source. In 2006, Mayor  
Newsom signed an executive directive mandating that the entire city  
fleet be converted by December 31, 2007. The City is currently on  
pace to meet that goal. Initially, biodiesel for the City fleet will  
be purchased through an existing city contract, with the future plan  
to procure all biodiesel generated from San Francisco?s restaurant  
waste oil stream.

Recycled FOG from San Francisco restaurants is estimated to generate  
1.5 million gallons of biofuel each year. 59 restaurants have already  
signed up for the SFGreasecycle program before its launch with more  
expressing interest every day.

"The SFPUC?s SFGreasecycle program provides an immediate financial  
benefit to one of San Francisco?s most important economic engines ?  
the restaurant and food service establishment industry," said Golden  
Gate Restaurant Association President Kevin Westlye. "I encourage all  
restaurants and food service establishments to sign up for the program."

Mayor Newsom and the SFPUC also announced that this Thanksgiving,  
residents can drop-off their holiday waste cooking oil for conversion  
to biodiesel for the City fleet at Costco, located at 450 10th  
Street. The Costco drop-off location will be open from November 23-26  
during their normal operating hours of Friday, 9-8:30pm; Saturday,  
9:30-7:00pm; Sunday, 10-6pm; and Monday, 11-8:30pm.

For more information or to sign up for the SFPUC?s free restaurant  
waste oil collection service, please call (415) 695-7366 or visit  
sfgreasecycle.org.

From mattr at biofuels.coop  Thu Nov 29 17:20:53 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:20:53 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] fwd: The Live Lightly Tour ... coming to
	Piedmont Biofuels
Message-ID: <AEA3577B-0E54-4786-8896-39E179969F00@biofuels.coop>

From: "Matt and Sara Janssen" < janssenfamily at gmail.com>
To: biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:52:44 -0500
Subject: The Live Lightly Tour ... coming to Piedmont Biofuels
The Live Lightly Tour will be at Piedmont Biofuels in Moncure on  
Friday, November 30 from 12:00 - 3:00 p.m.

We are a family of three...traveling the country in an RV powered by  
straight veggie oil. The inside of the RV is remodeled with green  
materials as well. We'd love to meet you all!

Check out our website for more information: www.livelightlytour.com

Thanks!

-- 
Sara Janssen
Live Lightly Tour
www.livelightlytour.com
t: 515.720.7139