From wrenchwench at blast.com  Wed Aug  1 15:53:27 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:53:27 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] North Carolina Biodiesel Quality
	Education Series
Message-ID: <C2A1F116-45DF-4D2B-B194-5E2F9E606962@blast.com>

Please save the date for the ?


North Carolina Biodiesel Quality Education Series
August 15, 2007
9:00 am ? 4:00 pm
BioNetwork BioEd Center-Gaston College - Dallas, NC

Are you interested in the quality production methods and uses of  
biodiesel? Then plan to attend the first in a series of workshops  
that addresses the role, production and use of biodiesel in North  
Carolina.

Learn about fuel quality topics such as specifications, proper fuel  
handling and analytical methods for quality control (ASTM/BQ9000)
Participate in hands-on fuel testing demonstrations
Tour a nearby biodiesel production facility
Exchange ideas with biodiesel producers, distributors and retailers

Presented by the Centralina Clean Fuels Coalition, Triangle Clean  
Cities Coalition, Piedmont Biofuels, and NC BioNetwork.

Speakers and panelists will include Rachel Burton, Piedmont Biofuels;  
Vernon Shoaf, NC BioNetwork; Grady Truett, Gaston County Schools and  
other biodiesel experts.

Cost:  $20 per person (includes lunch)

Please RSVP to Sarah Niess at sniess at centralina.org if you plan to  
attend.  Space is limited so to secure a place at the workshop please  
send your name and check made out to Centralina Clean Fuels Coalition  
to:
Centralina Clean Fuels Coalition
P.O. Box 35008
Charlotte, NC 28235

CAN?T MAKE THIS WORKSHOP?  MARK YOUR CALENDARS FOR:
September 18th at Central Carolina Community College in Pittsboro, NC
October 24th at Cherry Research Station in Goldsboro, NC

Sponsored by:







From shiftlink at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 19:31:14 2007
From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 19:31:14 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Blackle - energy saving search engine
In-Reply-To: <285293.5992.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <285293.5992.qm@web54110.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4c758e6d0708011631o6cf40b4due335bfc1028fc542@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Stephanie Kirkpatrick <cheesylibrarian34 at yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 1, 2007 7:06 PM
Subject: Blackle - energy saving search engine
To: Cameron H Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com>


I'm constantly being amazed by the folks at Google. According to some
recent calculations, if their search engine screen was black instead
of white, 750 mega watts/hour per year would be saved. So what did
they do? They teamed up with folks at Heap Media and created Blackle
www.blackle.com
Just like Google search, but in the dark.

(From the North Carolina Conservation Network blog:
http://www.ncconservationnetwork.org/mainblog )

"When an old man or woman dies, a library burns to the ground."
African proverb

 ________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
Yahoo! FareChase.

From perkinsfam at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 17:44:29 2007
From: perkinsfam at yahoo.com (Brian Perkins)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] free electric water heater in Siler City
Message-ID: <323947.93312.qm@web60321.mail.yahoo.com>

I just found this on Craig's list. No affiliation, so please don't 
contact me.

    I just removed this working hot water heater.
    It works fine and looks great. It is a 30 gal. upright type.
    No leaks. Free for pick up. Call (919) 610-2452
   









       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? 
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/

From shiftlink at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 20:31:52 2007
From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:31:52 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Here's more info on that elusive Honda
	Diesel
Message-ID: <4c758e6d0708021731j4fed41e4i3ccd4454913f9c5b@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html

62.8 MPG, that's pretty strong!

From biodiesel at yovo.info  Thu Aug  2 22:18:40 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:18:40 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 62 MPG in 2010?
In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0708021731j4fed41e4i3ccd4454913f9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4c758e6d0708021731j4fed41e4i3ccd4454913f9c5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B29080.4020105@yovo.info>

Try 160 MPG in 2009:
http://www.loremo.com/index_en.php

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen Henn
          2002 Jetta TDI
  40/50 MPG on biodiesel
http://words.yovo.info/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cameron Conover wrote:
> http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html
> 
> 62.8 MPG, that's pretty strong!
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Fri Aug  3 21:10:28 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:10:28 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC Legislature does alright by biofuels
Message-ID: <C2D94A44.CCF%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

Dear Friends,

Well, the NC Legislature is pretty much finished for the long session.  We
got a compromised RPS (which is pretty good for biopower), but no RFS (which
woulda been great for biofuels).  Still, it was a pretty good session for
biofuels -- biodiesel in particular.

Thanks to Anne Tazewell, Solar Center, for sharing this legislative update,
as enclosed.


Alternative Fuel / Advanced Technology
2007 NC Legislative Highlights
 
The following alternative fuel and advanced transportation technology
related initiatives were enacted through the efforts of the 2007 NC General
Assembly either by being included in the 2008 state budget and/or through
having specific legislation passed.  The 2008 budget bill may be searched by
keywords to find specific funding references at
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/sessions/2007/budget/budgetreport7-27.pdf.

Individual bills may be searched by writing bill number in "Find bill by
Number" box on right side of NC General Assembly web site at
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/homePage.pl
 

Establish and fund the NC Biofuels Center Of NC ($5M in 2008 State Budget
bill)
Provides $5M in non-re-occurring funds to the NC Dept of Ag and Consumer
Services to establish and fund the Biofuels Center of North Carolina ?which
will assist universities, companies, and agencies to implement the Strategic
Plan for Biofuels Leadership to encourage the growth and production of
biomass (organic raw materials) in rural areas; encourage and fund research,
identify new crops, and conduct growth trials; seek supplemental federal
funding for research, development, and facilities; and ensure unified
state approaches to incentives, agricultural and manufacturing, production
job creation and workforce preparation.?
 
Green Business Fund ($1M in state budget bill)
Provides $1M in non-reccurring funds to ?establish the NC Green Business
Fund to provide grants to private businesses with less than 100 employees,
non-profit organizations, and State agencies to encourage the growth of a
green economy in the State. Grants will be focused on three priority areas:
1. To encourage the development of the biofuels industry;
2. To foster the development of the green building industry ; and,
3. To leverage investments in additional clean technology
and renewable energy products and businesses.?
 
S567 Allow Distribution of E-Blend Fuel Sponsor: Dalton Allows E85 to be
dispensed from dispensers approved for E10 provided manufacturer has
initiated process for approval by independent testing lab (Passed Senate and
House/ Ratified)
  
S1272 Motor Fuels Tax Exemption for Biodiesel  Sponsor: Snow. Biodiesel
produced by an individual for use in private ( non-commercial) vehicle is
exempt from motor fuel tax (Ratified and presented to Gov 8/02/07)
 
S1277  State Biodiesel Vehicles? Warranties Sponsor: Snow (ratified 7/31/07)
?Every new motor vehicle purchased by the State that is designed to operate
on diesel fuel shall be covered by an express manufacturer's warranty that
allows the use of B?20 fuel, as defined in G.S. 143?58.4. This section does
not apply if the intended use, as determined by the agency, of the new motor
vehicle requires a type of vehicle for which an express manufacturer's
warranty allows the use of B?20 fuel is not available."
 
S1452 Diesel School Buses to use Minimum B20 Fuel Sponsor: Snow
Requires that 2% of the annual diesel used by NC school buses be B20 by June
2008 (NC school buses use approx 25MGY)  (ratified 8/02/07)
 
H258/S540 Revenue Laws & Motor Fuels Tax Tech. Changes
Section 20 removes requirement for $2,000 bond for small Biofuels producers.
Currently many small biodiesel producers have a disincentive to report motor
fuel tax on the biodiesel then use because of the $2,000 minimum bond
requirement (Ratified, awaiting Governor signature 8/02/07)
 
H1912 School Bus Retrofits in Non-attainment Areas Sponsor: Samuelson
Establishes a grant program within Division of Air Quality using federal
CMAQ dollars ($2M) to retrofit school buses to reduce particulate matter
emission. 2008 budget provides a $500,000 for required 20%  state match.
(Ratified 7/28/07)


~ ~ ~

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org


Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that
create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy
communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
http://www.cleanenergy.org.



From bonitz at cleanenergy.org  Fri Aug  3 21:29:10 2007
From: bonitz at cleanenergy.org (John Bonitz)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:29:10 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] P.S.
Message-ID: <C2D94EA6.CD1%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>

P.S.

I just realized I forgot to mention that the State Energy Office got funding
of $7.7 million to continue its activities.

And I should elaborate on the Renewable Electricity Portfolio Standard
bill... Very important to bioenergy.

S3 - Promote Renewable Energy / Baseload Generation, Albertson (Duplin-D),
passed yesterday, and now awaits the Governor's signature.

The bill summary: To "promote the development of renewable energy and energy
efficiency in the state through implementation of a renewable energy and
energy efficiency portfolio standard (REPS)," as well as "allow recovery of
certain nonfuel utility costs through the fuel charge adjustment procedure"
and "allow a tax credit to contributors to 501(c)(3) organizations for
renewable energy property."

The REPS will require public utilities in North Carolina to obtain 3% of
their electric power from renewables by 2012, 6% by 2015, 10% by 2018 and
12.5% by 2021. Electric membership corporations or municipalities must meet
the 2012, 2015 and 2018 requirements, but are exempt from the 2021
requirement.

As Erin Kimrey at NC Conservation Network wrote,
"At its heart, this very long and complex bill establishes a ?Renewable and
Efficiency Portfolio Standard? (REPS) requiring that 12.5% of electricity
delivered to NC customers must come from renewable sources (7.5%) or energy
efficiency measures (5%) by the end of 2021 ? a landmark event, making NC
the first southeastern state to enact an REPS. Also central to the bill are
provisions added during negotiations which allow power companies to recover
costs of construction for coal and nuclear plants from ratepayers before
they are completed, and even if construction is abandoned, known as
?construction work in progress" or CWIP. During the long negotiations and
even during the bill?s journey to the Governor, many environmental and
consumer groups worked long and hard to win many important improvements in
the bill.? The two main issues that caused many groups to oppose the bill ?
CWIP and hog waste-to-energy using old polluting lagoon technology ?
remained in the bill despite several amendments and a ton of grassroots and
lobbying pressure."

Cheers!

~ ~ ~

John Bonitz,
Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
Phone: 919-545-2920
Mobile: 919-360-2492
bonitz at cleanenergy.org


Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that
create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy
communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
http://www.cleanenergy.org.




From biodiesel at yovo.info  Fri Aug  3 22:16:19 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:16:19 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC Legislature does alright by
	biofuels
In-Reply-To: <C2D94A44.CCF%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>
References: <C2D94A44.CCF%bonitz@cleanenergy.org>
Message-ID: <46B3E173.1020106@yovo.info>

Thanks for this update, John - looks like biopower made it on the radar 
of the NC Legislature this session! Thanks to all our "lobbyists" and 
tireless supporters in Raleigh!

So homebrewers and SVOers have reason to celebrate as we got BOTH a tax 
exemption AND the removal of the bond requirement. So now we only have 
to pay Federal taxes on fuel! I think all homebrewers and SVOers in NC 
ought to write a thank-you note to Senator John Snow
http://senatorsnow.blogspot.com/2007/08/vegetable-oil-automobiles.html

Praise the Lard!

Jurgen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen Henn
          2002 Jetta TDI
  40/50 MPG on biodiesel
http://words.yovo.info/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John Bonitz wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> 
> Well, the NC Legislature is pretty much finished for the long session.  We
> got a compromised RPS (which is pretty good for biopower), but no RFS (which
> woulda been great for biofuels).  Still, it was a pretty good session for
> biofuels -- biodiesel in particular.
> 
> Thanks to Anne Tazewell, Solar Center, for sharing this legislative update,
> as enclosed.
> 
> 
> Alternative Fuel / Advanced Technology
> 2007 NC Legislative Highlights
>  
> The following alternative fuel and advanced transportation technology
> related initiatives were enacted through the efforts of the 2007 NC General
> Assembly either by being included in the 2008 state budget and/or through
> having specific legislation passed.  The 2008 budget bill may be searched by
> keywords to find specific funding references at
> http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/sessions/2007/budget/budgetreport7-27.pdf.
> 
> Individual bills may be searched by writing bill number in "Find bill by
> Number" box on right side of NC General Assembly web site at
> http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/homePage.pl
>  
> 
> Establish and fund the NC Biofuels Center Of NC ($5M in 2008 State Budget
> bill)
> Provides $5M in non-re-occurring funds to the NC Dept of Ag and Consumer
> Services to establish and fund the Biofuels Center of North Carolina ?which
> will assist universities, companies, and agencies to implement the Strategic
> Plan for Biofuels Leadership to encourage the growth and production of
> biomass (organic raw materials) in rural areas; encourage and fund research,
> identify new crops, and conduct growth trials; seek supplemental federal
> funding for research, development, and facilities; and ensure unified
> state approaches to incentives, agricultural and manufacturing, production
> job creation and workforce preparation.?
>  
> Green Business Fund ($1M in state budget bill)
> Provides $1M in non-reccurring funds to ?establish the NC Green Business
> Fund to provide grants to private businesses with less than 100 employees,
> non-profit organizations, and State agencies to encourage the growth of a
> green economy in the State. Grants will be focused on three priority areas:
> 1. To encourage the development of the biofuels industry;
> 2. To foster the development of the green building industry ; and,
> 3. To leverage investments in additional clean technology
> and renewable energy products and businesses.?
>  
> S567 Allow Distribution of E-Blend Fuel Sponsor: Dalton Allows E85 to be
> dispensed from dispensers approved for E10 provided manufacturer has
> initiated process for approval by independent testing lab (Passed Senate and
> House/ Ratified)
>   
> S1272 Motor Fuels Tax Exemption for Biodiesel  Sponsor: Snow. Biodiesel
> produced by an individual for use in private ( non-commercial) vehicle is
> exempt from motor fuel tax (Ratified and presented to Gov 8/02/07)
>  
> S1277  State Biodiesel Vehicles? Warranties Sponsor: Snow (ratified 7/31/07)
> ?Every new motor vehicle purchased by the State that is designed to operate
> on diesel fuel shall be covered by an express manufacturer's warranty that
> allows the use of B?20 fuel, as defined in G.S. 143?58.4. This section does
> not apply if the intended use, as determined by the agency, of the new motor
> vehicle requires a type of vehicle for which an express manufacturer's
> warranty allows the use of B?20 fuel is not available."
>  
> S1452 Diesel School Buses to use Minimum B20 Fuel Sponsor: Snow
> Requires that 2% of the annual diesel used by NC school buses be B20 by June
> 2008 (NC school buses use approx 25MGY)  (ratified 8/02/07)
>  
> H258/S540 Revenue Laws & Motor Fuels Tax Tech. Changes
> Section 20 removes requirement for $2,000 bond for small Biofuels producers.
> Currently many small biodiesel producers have a disincentive to report motor
> fuel tax on the biodiesel then use because of the $2,000 minimum bond
> requirement (Ratified, awaiting Governor signature 8/02/07)
>  
> H1912 School Bus Retrofits in Non-attainment Areas Sponsor: Samuelson
> Establishes a grant program within Division of Air Quality using federal
> CMAQ dollars ($2M) to retrofit school buses to reduce particulate matter
> emission. 2008 budget provides a $500,000 for required 20%  state match.
> (Ratified 7/28/07)
> 
> 
> ~ ~ ~
> 
> John Bonitz,
> Farm Outreach & Policy Advocate
> Southern Alliance for Clean Energy
> PO Box 1833, Pittsboro, NC  27312
> Phone: 919-545-2920
> Mobile: 919-360-2492
> bonitz at cleanenergy.org
> 
> 
> Southern Alliance for Clean Energy promotes responsible energy choices that
> create global warming solutions and ensure clean, safe, and healthy
> communities throughout the Southeast.  Learn more at
> http://www.cleanenergy.org.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From info at theforestfoundation.org  Mon Aug  6 11:04:44 2007
From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info-TFF)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:04:44 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
Message-ID: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	E-mail-A-Friend: Corn Can?t Solve Our Problem
Date: 	Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:21:16 -0500
From: 	info at theforestfoundation.org
To: 	info at theforestfoundation.org



The world has come full circle. A century ago our first transportation biofuels ? the hay and oats fed to our horses ? were replaced by gasoline. Today, ethanol from corn and biodiesel from soybeans have begun edging out gasoline and diesel. 

This has been hailed as an overwhelmingly positive development that will help us reduce the threat of climate change and ease our dependence on foreign oil. In political circles, ethanol is the flavor of the day, and presidential candidates have been cycling through Iowa extolling its benefits. Lost in the ethanol-induced euphoria, however, is the fact that three of our most fundamental needs ? food, energy, and a livable and sustainable environment ? are now in direct conflict. Moreover, our recent analyses of the full costs and benefits of various biofuels, performed at the University of Minnesota, present a markedly different and more nuanced picture than has been heard on the campaign trail.

For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:

http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2007/04/01/news/opinion/opin81.txt



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From william_stott at unc.edu  Mon Aug  6 13:48:03 2007
From: william_stott at unc.edu (William Stott)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:48:03 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu>

Great post. Thanks very much!

Info-TFF wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	E-mail-A-Friend: Corn Can?t Solve Our Problem
> Date: 	Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:21:16 -0500
> From: 	info at theforestfoundation.org
> To: 	info at theforestfoundation.org
>
>
>
> The world has come full circle. A century ago our first transportation biofuels ? the hay and oats fed to our horses ? were replaced by gasoline. Today, ethanol from corn and biodiesel from soybeans have begun edging out gasoline and diesel. 
>
> This has been hailed as an overwhelmingly positive development that will help us reduce the threat of climate change and ease our dependence on foreign oil. In political circles, ethanol is the flavor of the day, and presidential candidates have been cycling through Iowa extolling its benefits. Lost in the ethanol-induced euphoria, however, is the fact that three of our most fundamental needs ? food, energy, and a livable and sustainable environment ? are now in direct conflict. Moreover, our recent analyses of the full costs and benefits of various biofuels, performed at the University of Minnesota, present a markedly different and more nuanced picture than has been heard on the campaign trail.
>
> For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:
>
> http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2007/04/01/news/opinion/opin81.txt
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>  This e-mail contains information for the purpose of tracking abuse.
>  If you believe this email is offensive or may be considered spam,
>  please visit the website http://abuse.townnews.com and create an
>  incident report. From this site you can also block messages like
>  this from sending to your email address. Please retain this Mail-ID
>  [6e42f4dab796aa90cc1c672ce722b36b], it's needed to view information
>  associated with this message. Click the link below to view the incident.
>  http://abuse.townnews.com/?MailID=6e42f4dab796aa90cc1c672ce722b36b
>
>
>  Read the acceptable use policy: http://systems.townnews.com/public/aup/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>   

-- 
Dr. William R. Stott, III
Research Professor
Carolina Institute for the Environment
Diector, Center for Environmental Communication
CB # 1105 - Miller Hall 107
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-1105
(919) 966-9926
william_stott at unc.edu



From mark at veggiediesel.org  Mon Aug  6 15:22:36 2007
From: mark at veggiediesel.org (Mark Puckett)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:22:36 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC SENATE BILL 1272 - says nothing about
	SVO/WVO
Message-ID: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOIEECCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>

This bill would cover individuals "making" biodiesel from SVO/WVO, but
SVO/WVO is vegetable oil, not biodiesel. Reading Senator John Snow's blog
entry, he makes reference to vegetable oil like he intended to exempt it
from the tax, but the wording of the bill limits the exemption to biodiesel.
Courts interpret the laws that legistures pass and a court could look up the
definition of biodiesel, read that it involves a chemical reaction that
modifies the vegetable oil and properly conclude that pouring vegetable oil
into your car is not the same as "producing biodiesel". I think biofuel or
alternative fuel would have been the word to use, not biodiesel. I don't
produce biodiesel. I buy vegetable oil and pour it in my fuel tank.

Not trying to throw cold water on the celebration, just looking at the
actual wording of the bill and I think it comes up short.

Mark Puckett

http://senatorsnow.blogspot.com/2007/08/vegetable-oil-automobiles.html

http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2007&BillID=
s1272&submitButton=Go

SENATE BILL 1272

AN ACT TO EXEMPT BIODIESEL THAT IS PRODUCED BY AN INDIVIDUAL
FOR PERSONAL USE IN A PRIVATE PASSENGER VEHICLE FROM THE
MOTOR FUEL EXCISE TAX.

The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts:

SECTION 1. G.S. 105-449.88 is amended by adding a new subdivision to
read:

105-449.88. Exemptions from the excise tax.
...
(9) Biodiesel that is produced by an individual for use in a private
passenger vehicle registered in that individual's name pursuant to
Chapter 20 of the General Statutes. For the purposes of this
subdivision, the term 'private passenger vehicle' has the same meaning
as in G.S. 20-4.01."
...


From biodiesel at yovo.info  Mon Aug  6 15:45:19 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 15:45:19 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC SENATE BILL 1272 - says nothing
 about	SVO/WVO
In-Reply-To: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOIEECCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>
References: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOIEECCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>
Message-ID: <46B77A4F.3060608@yovo.info>

Mark is right that the exemption is limited to homebrew - as far as I 
can tell. Originally the bill had references to ASTM specs ... That's a 
bit of damper on the celebrations. But I also think that S540 is a 
bigger deal, as it removes the bond requirement for both homebrewers AND 
SVOers.
(more info on S540: http://tinyurl.com/2y5tyx)

Personally, I don't mind paying the fuel tax. I plan to donate the 
roughly $150/year to a worth-while, alt. energy  cause like Piedmont 
Biofuels. But to me the bond requirement was a much bigger obstacle. Now 
we can just file the paperwork, pay the NCDOR what we owe them, and we 
don't have to deal with a bonding agency. THAT is the biggest reason to 
celebrate.

Cheers,
Jurgen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen Henn
          2002 Jetta TDI
  40/50 MPG on biodiesel
http://words.yovo.info/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark Puckett wrote:
> This bill would cover individuals "making" biodiesel from SVO/WVO, but
> SVO/WVO is vegetable oil, not biodiesel. Reading Senator John Snow's blog
> entry, he makes reference to vegetable oil like he intended to exempt it
> from the tax, but the wording of the bill limits the exemption to biodiesel.
> Courts interpret the laws that legistures pass and a court could look up the
> definition of biodiesel, read that it involves a chemical reaction that
> modifies the vegetable oil and properly conclude that pouring vegetable oil
> into your car is not the same as "producing biodiesel". I think biofuel or
> alternative fuel would have been the word to use, not biodiesel. I don't
> produce biodiesel. I buy vegetable oil and pour it in my fuel tank.
> 
> Not trying to throw cold water on the celebration, just looking at the
> actual wording of the bill and I think it comes up short.
> 
> Mark Puckett
> 
> http://senatorsnow.blogspot.com/2007/08/vegetable-oil-automobiles.html
> 
> http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2007&BillID=
> s1272&submitButton=Go
> 
> SENATE BILL 1272
> 
> AN ACT TO EXEMPT BIODIESEL THAT IS PRODUCED BY AN INDIVIDUAL
> FOR PERSONAL USE IN A PRIVATE PASSENGER VEHICLE FROM THE
> MOTOR FUEL EXCISE TAX.
> 
> The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts:
> 
> SECTION 1. G.S. 105-449.88 is amended by adding a new subdivision to
> read:
> 
> 105-449.88. Exemptions from the excise tax.
> ...
> (9) Biodiesel that is produced by an individual for use in a private
> passenger vehicle registered in that individual's name pursuant to
> Chapter 20 of the General Statutes. For the purposes of this
> subdivision, the term 'private passenger vehicle' has the same meaning
> as in G.S. 20-4.01."
> ...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From mark at veggiediesel.org  Mon Aug  6 17:46:24 2007
From: mark at veggiediesel.org (Mark Puckett)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:46:24 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC SENATE BILL 1272 - says nothing about
	SVO/WVO
In-Reply-To: <46B77A4F.3060608@yovo.info>
Message-ID: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOMEEDCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>


J?rgen,

Good point about the removal of the bond requirement being more of a reason
to celebrate, but that still seems to only apply to people who make
biodiesel out of SVO/WVO, not people who use SVO/WVO. Unless the state's
definition of biodiesel includes SVO/WVO which I think is at the heart of
this discussion because if I am a biodiesel producer/provider I would be
exempt on the personal use of my biodiesel under bill 1272.

For some intellectual excercise, please help me wade through S540 and apply
it to me purchasing canola oil and pouring it into my tank.

In buying canola oil and pouring it into my tank, am I?

"a. A blender."
or
"b. A supplier that is a fuel alcohol provider or a biodiesel provider
but is neither a position holder nor a person that receives motor
fuel pursuant to a two-party exchange."

(What is a "position holder"?)

I'm not blending anything. I'm not a fuel alcohol provider. I'm not a
biodiesel provider. When I buy canola oil at BJ's, is that not a two party
exchange? (Under section 16e, could BJ's be fined $250 for "allowing me to
dispense untaxed motor fuel into my tank"? I sometimes pour it in right
there in their parking lot.)

If I am not a or b, I don't qualify to skip the bond.

I guess I should forget what biodiesel really is and just confuse the issue
and call anything I pour into my tank "biodiesel"! Yea, that's it. Pouring
SVO into my tank turns it into "biodiesel"! I've discovered a new process to
make biodiesel without chemicals! Nobel prize please?

Mark Puckett

S540:
...
SECTION 16.(d) G.S. 105-449.117(b) reads as rewritten:
"(b) Civil Penalty. ? The civil penalty is payable to the agency that
assessed the penalty and is payable by the person in whose name the highway
vehicle is
registered. The amount of the penalty depends on the amount of fuel in the
supply tank
of the highway vehicle. The penalty is the greater of one thousand dollars
($1,000) or
five times the amount of motor fuel tax payable on the fuel in the supply
tank. A penalty
imposed under this section is in addition to any motor fuel tax assessed."

SECTION 16.(e) G.S. 105-449.118 reads as rewritten:
"? 105-449.118. Civil penalty for buying or selling non-tax-paid motor fuel.
A person who dispenses non-tax-paid motor fuel into the supply tank of a
highway
vehicle or who allows non-tax-paid motor fuel to be dispensed into the
supply tank of a
highway vehicle is subject to a civil penalty of two hundred fifty dollars
($250.00) per
occurrence.
The penalty is payable to the agency that assessed the penalty. Failure to
pay a penalty imposed under this section is grounds under G.S. 20-88.01(b)
to withhold
or revoke the registration plate of the motor vehicle into which the motor
fuel was
dispensed."
...
...
SECTION 17.(a) G.S. 105-449.72(a) reads as rewritten:
"(a) Initial Bond. ? An applicant for a license as a refiner, a terminal
operator, a supplier, an importer, a blender, a permissive supplier, or a
distributor must file with the Secretary a bond or an irrevocable letter of
credit. A bond or an irrevocable letter of credit must be conditioned upon
compliance with the requirements of this Article, be payable to the State,
and be in the form required by the Secretary. The amount of the bond or
irrevocable letter of credit is determined as follows:
...
(3) For an applicant for a license as any of the following, a
bond is required only if the applicant's average expected annual tax
liability under this Article, as determined by the Secretary, is at least
two thousand dollars ($2,000). When a bond is required, the bond
amount is the same as under subdivision (2) of this subsection.
a. A blender.
b. A supplier that is a fuel alcohol provider or a biodiesel provider
but is neither a position holder nor a person that receives motor
fuel pursuant to a two-party exchange."
...


From mweaver at misteam.net  Sun Aug  5 20:28:27 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:28:27 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC SENATE BILL 1272 - says nothing
 about	SVO/WVO
In-Reply-To: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOMEEDCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>
References: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOMEEDCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>
Message-ID: <46B66B2B.2040808@misteam.net>

Seems to me that there 2 items of note:

1. "non-tax-paid" - hence, if you pay, or even pre-pay, the required 
fuel tax, you're ok.
2. I believe that a reasonable reading of the text would interpret 
"blender" as a fuel distributor that adds BD to petro. I would be 
surprised if it meant one
who blends SVO with RUG and ISO, as this is a very small percentage of 
the alternative fuel universe. Also, the addition of a small amount of 
kerosene
to petro diesel has long been tolerated, at least here where it 
sometimes can get cold enough to gel petro diesel. I used to run both a 
towing business and moving business and we routinely put kerosene into 
the fuel tanks, as did other large fleet operators.

IANAL, though, so my thoughts are worth what you pay for them...

-Mike


Mark Puckett wrote:

>J?rgen,
>
>Good point about the removal of the bond requirement being more of a reason
>to celebrate, but that still seems to only apply to people who make
>biodiesel out of SVO/WVO, not people who use SVO/WVO. Unless the state's
>definition of biodiesel includes SVO/WVO which I think is at the heart of
>this discussion because if I am a biodiesel producer/provider I would be
>exempt on the personal use of my biodiesel under bill 1272.
>
>For some intellectual excercise, please help me wade through S540 and apply
>it to me purchasing canola oil and pouring it into my tank.
>
>In buying canola oil and pouring it into my tank, am I?
>
>"a. A blender."
>or
>"b. A supplier that is a fuel alcohol provider or a biodiesel provider
>but is neither a position holder nor a person that receives motor
>fuel pursuant to a two-party exchange."
>
>(What is a "position holder"?)
>
>I'm not blending anything. I'm not a fuel alcohol provider. I'm not a
>biodiesel provider. When I buy canola oil at BJ's, is that not a two party
>exchange? (Under section 16e, could BJ's be fined $250 for "allowing me to
>dispense untaxed motor fuel into my tank"? I sometimes pour it in right
>there in their parking lot.)
>
>If I am not a or b, I don't qualify to skip the bond.
>
>I guess I should forget what biodiesel really is and just confuse the issue
>and call anything I pour into my tank "biodiesel"! Yea, that's it. Pouring
>SVO into my tank turns it into "biodiesel"! I've discovered a new process to
>make biodiesel without chemicals! Nobel prize please?
>
>Mark Puckett
>
>S540:
>...
>SECTION 16.(d) G.S. 105-449.117(b) reads as rewritten:
>"(b) Civil Penalty. ? The civil penalty is payable to the agency that
>assessed the penalty and is payable by the person in whose name the highway
>vehicle is
>registered. The amount of the penalty depends on the amount of fuel in the
>supply tank
>of the highway vehicle. The penalty is the greater of one thousand dollars
>($1,000) or
>five times the amount of motor fuel tax payable on the fuel in the supply
>tank. A penalty
>imposed under this section is in addition to any motor fuel tax assessed."
>
>SECTION 16.(e) G.S. 105-449.118 reads as rewritten:
>"? 105-449.118. Civil penalty for buying or selling non-tax-paid motor fuel.
>A person who dispenses non-tax-paid motor fuel into the supply tank of a
>highway
>vehicle or who allows non-tax-paid motor fuel to be dispensed into the
>supply tank of a
>highway vehicle is subject to a civil penalty of two hundred fifty dollars
>($250.00) per
>occurrence.
>The penalty is payable to the agency that assessed the penalty. Failure to
>pay a penalty imposed under this section is grounds under G.S. 20-88.01(b)
>to withhold
>or revoke the registration plate of the motor vehicle into which the motor
>fuel was
>dispensed."
>...
>...
>SECTION 17.(a) G.S. 105-449.72(a) reads as rewritten:
>"(a) Initial Bond. ? An applicant for a license as a refiner, a terminal
>operator, a supplier, an importer, a blender, a permissive supplier, or a
>distributor must file with the Secretary a bond or an irrevocable letter of
>credit. A bond or an irrevocable letter of credit must be conditioned upon
>compliance with the requirements of this Article, be payable to the State,
>and be in the form required by the Secretary. The amount of the bond or
>irrevocable letter of credit is determined as follows:
>...
>(3) For an applicant for a license as any of the following, a
>bond is required only if the applicant's average expected annual tax
>liability under this Article, as determined by the Secretary, is at least
>two thousand dollars ($2,000). When a bond is required, the bond
>amount is the same as under subdivision (2) of this subsection.
>a. A blender.
>b. A supplier that is a fuel alcohol provider or a biodiesel provider
>but is neither a position holder nor a person that receives motor
>fuel pursuant to a two-party exchange."
>...
>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From mattr at biofuels.coop  Mon Aug  6 21:13:25 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:13:25 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bond and Motor Fuels Tax
In-Reply-To: <46B66B2B.2040808@misteam.net>
References: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOMEEDCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>
	<46B66B2B.2040808@misteam.net>
Message-ID: <EAEBE258-68D2-4038-A575-9E58226449CF@biofuels.coop>

Okay everybody,
I have been crawling through this with a fine tooth comb since last  
Friday so that when I finally reported back to everybody I would have  
some useful information to share with everyone.  I'm not a tax  
lawyer, I'm a homebrewer, so pouring through these statutes is  
horribly painful for me, but hopefully this information will provide  
some clarity.  This email will eventually be refined into a reference  
for the new law, and for now here is the deal regarding the two new  
laws as best as I can piece it together.

First of all, S540 (the bond requirement):
The requirement to post a $2000 bond in order to remit road tax has  
been lifted for all biodiesel producers whose "average expected  
annual tax liability under this Article, as determined by the  
Secretary, is at least two thousand dollars ($2,000)".  Currently  
North Carolina motor fuels tax for biodiesel is $0.297/gal.  $2000  
divided by $0.297 = 6734 gallons of biodiesel.  This means that if  
you produce under 6734 gallons of biodiesel per year, you do NOT need  
to post a bond in order to remit the motor fuels tax to the North  
Carolina Department of Revenue, Motor Fuels Tax Division.  The amount  
of road taxes due changes from time to time, and you can always check  
the current NC motor fuels road tax at: http://www.dor.state.nc.us/ 
taxes/motor/rates.html

Second of all, S1272 (the wavier of motor fuels tax):
This is an interesting one because it came completely out of the  
blue.  First of all, as Jurgen pointed out it did indeed morph from  
an attempt to change the definition of biodiesel to more correctly  
represent what biodiesel really is (ie. the ASTM spec).  Currently,  
according to the North Carolina State Statutes for motor fuels (see:  
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ 
ByArticle/Chapter_105/Article_36C.html) Biodiesel is defined as  
"Biodiesel. ? Any fuel or mixture of fuels derived in whole or in  
part from agricultural products or animal fats or wastes from these  
products or fats."
Reading this, two things come to mind:
First off, this is an absolutely terrible definition of biodiesel,  
and secondly, according to this definition SVO would be considered  
biodiesel as far as the NC Dept. of Revenue is concerned.

At the last minute S1272 somehow morphed into a law that has exempted  
"Biodiesel that is produced by an individual for use in a private  
passenger vehicle registered in that individual's name" from paying  
motor fuels tax.  This means that individual homebrewers (and SVOers  
under the current NC definition of biodiesel) do not need to pay  
motor fuels taxes at all, so the bond wavier mentioned above is a  
moot point for them.  However, interestingly, this does not apply to  
cooperatives, since the definition is very clear that this exemption  
is for individuals, not business entities.  That said, if a biodiesel  
producer cooperative makes under the 6734 gallons per year, they no  
longer need to post a bond (see above), even though they still need  
to pay road tax.  The motor fuels tax exemption law goes into effect  
October 1, 2007.

Obviously this is wonderful and exciting news, however, why did the  
DOR decide to completely change their course from altering the  
definition to exempting homebrewers from road tax?  In fact, there is  
a rumor that Conocophillips has been talking to the DOR about getting  
the same biodiesel tax breaks for their "biodiesel" that they produce  
on a massive scale through a thermal depolymerization process and  
then blending it in their current diesel fuel.  This issue was  
discussed on an earlier thread on the BIG list, or you can get more  
information at: http://www.biodiesel.org/news/07clicktrhrus/ 
20070416_renewablediesel.shtm
A potential problem if we don't change the definition of biodiesel to  
reflect the ASTM D6751 spec is that companies may take advantage of  
tax credits that were specifically designed to benefit biodiesel  
producers.  Therefore, although the current definition is  
advantageous to SVOers it is important that we continue to push to  
update the definition.    I know SVOers are going to cringe, but we  
need to continue to push to update this definition.

Finally, as far as the Feds are concerned one, you still need to pay  
the IRS your fuel tax on a quarterly basis if you are a homebrewer.   
We are working on updating the taxes section of our website to  
include information on how to file with the Feds, or you can give us  
a call at Piedmont Biofuels and in exchange for becoming a member we  
can help get you set up to file with the IRS.  SVOers, unfortunately,  
are still out of luck, as I still believe the EPA is not going to  
consider SVO a legal fuel for use in the United States.  See the  
following link: http://www.epa.gov/smartway/growandgo/documents/ 
factsheet-biodiesel.htm

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

Regards,
Matt


Matthew Rudolf
Executive Director
Piedmont Biofuels
www.biofuels.coop
919-533-0172



From biodiesel at yovo.info  Mon Aug  6 21:21:54 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:21:54 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC SENATE BILL 1272 - says nothing
 about	SVO/WVO
In-Reply-To: <46B66B2B.2040808@misteam.net>
References: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOMEEDCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>
	<46B66B2B.2040808@misteam.net>
Message-ID: <46B7C932.3090300@yovo.info>

Good points, Mike and Mark.

First to be very clear:
 >> I am NOT a tax adviser - this is just my personal opinion <<

I think that the key aspect of this change is that the requirement for 
the bond only applies to fuel suppliers who's tax liability is expected 
to be over $2,000, not so much the type of fuel specifically mentioned. 
I think the intent of this change is to make it easier for folks who 
provide small quantities of fuel for their own use from alternative 
sources, to do so.

The final word, of course, have our friends at the NCDOR. Once these 
changes go into effect, the first SVOer to apply for a license as an 
Alternative Fuel Provider will find out exactly how this law is 
interpreted by the folks who handle the applications. Are they going to 
require the bond for a license as an Alternative Fuels Provider to pay 
your couple-hundred-dollar road taxes a year, but not for a license as a 
Biodiesel Provider? Also, I did not find a definition of biodiesel 
anywhere in the text .... I really doubt that they have any interest in 
making it HARDER for us to pay taxes.

Again - just my opinion. I am not at all qualified to give tax advice!

Cheers,
Jurgen


Mike Weaver wrote:
> Seems to me that there 2 items of note:
> 
> 1. "non-tax-paid" - hence, if you pay, or even pre-pay, the required 
> fuel tax, you're ok.
> 2. I believe that a reasonable reading of the text would interpret 
> "blender" as a fuel distributor that adds BD to petro. I would be 
> surprised if it meant one
> who blends SVO with RUG and ISO, as this is a very small percentage of 
> the alternative fuel universe. Also, the addition of a small amount of 
> kerosene
> to petro diesel has long been tolerated, at least here where it 
> sometimes can get cold enough to gel petro diesel. I used to run both a 
> towing business and moving business and we routinely put kerosene into 
> the fuel tanks, as did other large fleet operators.
> 
> IANAL, though, so my thoughts are worth what you pay for them...
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> Mark Puckett wrote:
> 
>> J?rgen,
>>
>> Good point about the removal of the bond requirement being more of a reason
>> to celebrate, but that still seems to only apply to people who make
>> biodiesel out of SVO/WVO, not people who use SVO/WVO. Unless the state's
>> definition of biodiesel includes SVO/WVO which I think is at the heart of
>> this discussion because if I am a biodiesel producer/provider I would be
>> exempt on the personal use of my biodiesel under bill 1272.
>>
>> For some intellectual excercise, please help me wade through S540 and apply
>> it to me purchasing canola oil and pouring it into my tank.
>>
>> In buying canola oil and pouring it into my tank, am I?
>>
>> "a. A blender."
>> or
>> "b. A supplier that is a fuel alcohol provider or a biodiesel provider
>> but is neither a position holder nor a person that receives motor
>> fuel pursuant to a two-party exchange."
>>
>> (What is a "position holder"?)
>>
>> I'm not blending anything. I'm not a fuel alcohol provider. I'm not a
>> biodiesel provider. When I buy canola oil at BJ's, is that not a two party
>> exchange? (Under section 16e, could BJ's be fined $250 for "allowing me to
>> dispense untaxed motor fuel into my tank"? I sometimes pour it in right
>> there in their parking lot.)
>>
>> If I am not a or b, I don't qualify to skip the bond.
>>
>> I guess I should forget what biodiesel really is and just confuse the issue
>> and call anything I pour into my tank "biodiesel"! Yea, that's it. Pouring
>> SVO into my tank turns it into "biodiesel"! I've discovered a new process to
>> make biodiesel without chemicals! Nobel prize please?
>>
>> Mark Puckett
>>
>> S540:
>> ...
>> SECTION 16.(d) G.S. 105-449.117(b) reads as rewritten:
>> "(b) Civil Penalty. ? The civil penalty is payable to the agency that
>> assessed the penalty and is payable by the person in whose name the highway
>> vehicle is
>> registered. The amount of the penalty depends on the amount of fuel in the
>> supply tank
>> of the highway vehicle. The penalty is the greater of one thousand dollars
>> ($1,000) or
>> five times the amount of motor fuel tax payable on the fuel in the supply
>> tank. A penalty
>> imposed under this section is in addition to any motor fuel tax assessed."
>>
>> SECTION 16.(e) G.S. 105-449.118 reads as rewritten:
>> "? 105-449.118. Civil penalty for buying or selling non-tax-paid motor fuel.
>> A person who dispenses non-tax-paid motor fuel into the supply tank of a
>> highway
>> vehicle or who allows non-tax-paid motor fuel to be dispensed into the
>> supply tank of a
>> highway vehicle is subject to a civil penalty of two hundred fifty dollars
>> ($250.00) per
>> occurrence.
>> The penalty is payable to the agency that assessed the penalty. Failure to
>> pay a penalty imposed under this section is grounds under G.S. 20-88.01(b)
>> to withhold
>> or revoke the registration plate of the motor vehicle into which the motor
>> fuel was
>> dispensed."
>> ...
>> ...
>> SECTION 17.(a) G.S. 105-449.72(a) reads as rewritten:
>> "(a) Initial Bond. ? An applicant for a license as a refiner, a terminal
>> operator, a supplier, an importer, a blender, a permissive supplier, or a
>> distributor must file with the Secretary a bond or an irrevocable letter of
>> credit. A bond or an irrevocable letter of credit must be conditioned upon
>> compliance with the requirements of this Article, be payable to the State,
>> and be in the form required by the Secretary. The amount of the bond or
>> irrevocable letter of credit is determined as follows:
>> ...
>> (3) For an applicant for a license as any of the following, a
>> bond is required only if the applicant's average expected annual tax
>> liability under this Article, as determined by the Secretary, is at least
>> two thousand dollars ($2,000). When a bond is required, the bond
>> amount is the same as under subdivision (2) of this subsection.
>> a. A blender.
>> b. A supplier that is a fuel alcohol provider or a biodiesel provider
>> but is neither a position holder nor a person that receives motor
>> fuel pursuant to a two-party exchange."
>> ...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>  
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From john at shoenc.com  Mon Aug  6 13:57:55 2007
From: john at shoenc.com (John Redditt)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:57:55 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] finetuning-close to topic
Message-ID: <46B76123.2010503@shoenc.com>

Does anyone have any experience with a "chip", for the '06 High Output 
Cummins.  I'm aware that Dodge has approved B-20 for current use.  I'm 
just days away from activating my biofuels group involvement.  I've long 
been watching via the group this list.

Any advice or instructions will be sincerely appreciated.


John Redditt

From MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 21:25:33 2007
From: MarkJ.Ambrose at gmail.com (Mark Ambrose)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:25:33 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bond and Motor Fuels Tax
In-Reply-To: <EAEBE258-68D2-4038-A575-9E58226449CF@biofuels.coop>
References: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOMEEDCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>
	<46B66B2B.2040808@misteam.net>
	<EAEBE258-68D2-4038-A575-9E58226449CF@biofuels.coop>
Message-ID: <46B7CA0D.9090507@gmail.com>

Yes, it is interesting how a bill to update the definition of biodiesel 
morphed into a bill to exempt small producers from the roads tax.

Also interesting is that an intermediate version would have granted a 
tax credit to biodiesel providers equal to the excise tax paid by the 
producers (it essentially would have repealed the state excise tax on 
biodiesel produced in NC and sold in NC).  But that provision didn't go 
anywhere.

-- MArk

Matthew Rudolf wrote:
> Okay everybody,
> I have been crawling through this with a fine tooth comb since last  
> Friday so that when I finally reported back to everybody I would have  
> some useful information to share with everyone.  I'm not a tax  
> lawyer, I'm a homebrewer, so pouring through these statutes is  
> horribly painful for me, but hopefully this information will provide  
> some clarity.  This email will eventually be refined into a reference  
> for the new law, and for now here is the deal regarding the two new  
> laws as best as I can piece it together.
>
> First of all, S540 (the bond requirement):
> The requirement to post a $2000 bond in order to remit road tax has  
> been lifted for all biodiesel producers whose "average expected  
> annual tax liability under this Article, as determined by the  
> Secretary, is at least two thousand dollars ($2,000)".  Currently  
> North Carolina motor fuels tax for biodiesel is $0.297/gal.  $2000  
> divided by $0.297 = 6734 gallons of biodiesel.  This means that if  
> you produce under 6734 gallons of biodiesel per year, you do NOT need  
> to post a bond in order to remit the motor fuels tax to the North  
> Carolina Department of Revenue, Motor Fuels Tax Division.  The amount  
> of road taxes due changes from time to time, and you can always check  
> the current NC motor fuels road tax at: http://www.dor.state.nc.us/ 
> taxes/motor/rates.html
>
> Second of all, S1272 (the wavier of motor fuels tax):
> This is an interesting one because it came completely out of the  
> blue.  First of all, as Jurgen pointed out it did indeed morph from  
> an attempt to change the definition of biodiesel to more correctly  
> represent what biodiesel really is (ie. the ASTM spec).  Currently,  
> according to the North Carolina State Statutes for motor fuels (see:  
> http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ 
> ByArticle/Chapter_105/Article_36C.html) Biodiesel is defined as  
> "Biodiesel. ? Any fuel or mixture of fuels derived in whole or in  
> part from agricultural products or animal fats or wastes from these  
> products or fats."
> Reading this, two things come to mind:
> First off, this is an absolutely terrible definition of biodiesel,  
> and secondly, according to this definition SVO would be considered  
> biodiesel as far as the NC Dept. of Revenue is concerned.
>
> At the last minute S1272 somehow morphed into a law that has exempted  
> "Biodiesel that is produced by an individual for use in a private  
> passenger vehicle registered in that individual's name" from paying  
> motor fuels tax.  This means that individual homebrewers (and SVOers  
> under the current NC definition of biodiesel) do not need to pay  
> motor fuels taxes at all, so the bond wavier mentioned above is a  
> moot point for them.  However, interestingly, this does not apply to  
> cooperatives, since the definition is very clear that this exemption  
> is for individuals, not business entities.  That said, if a biodiesel  
> producer cooperative makes under the 6734 gallons per year, they no  
> longer need to post a bond (see above), even though they still need  
> to pay road tax.  The motor fuels tax exemption law goes into effect  
> October 1, 2007.
>
> Obviously this is wonderful and exciting news, however, why did the  
> DOR decide to completely change their course from altering the  
> definition to exempting homebrewers from road tax?  In fact, there is  
> a rumor that Conocophillips has been talking to the DOR about getting  
> the same biodiesel tax breaks for their "biodiesel" that they produce  
> on a massive scale through a thermal depolymerization process and  
> then blending it in their current diesel fuel.  This issue was  
> discussed on an earlier thread on the BIG list, or you can get more  
> information at: http://www.biodiesel.org/news/07clicktrhrus/ 
> 20070416_renewablediesel.shtm
> A potential problem if we don't change the definition of biodiesel to  
> reflect the ASTM D6751 spec is that companies may take advantage of  
> tax credits that were specifically designed to benefit biodiesel  
> producers.  Therefore, although the current definition is  
> advantageous to SVOers it is important that we continue to push to  
> update the definition.    I know SVOers are going to cringe, but we  
> need to continue to push to update this definition.
>
> Finally, as far as the Feds are concerned one, you still need to pay  
> the IRS your fuel tax on a quarterly basis if you are a homebrewer.   
> We are working on updating the taxes section of our website to  
> include information on how to file with the Feds, or you can give us  
> a call at Piedmont Biofuels and in exchange for becoming a member we  
> can help get you set up to file with the IRS.  SVOers, unfortunately,  
> are still out of luck, as I still believe the EPA is not going to  
> consider SVO a legal fuel for use in the United States.  See the  
> following link: http://www.epa.gov/smartway/growandgo/documents/ 
> factsheet-biodiesel.htm
>
> Hope this helps clear things up a bit.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
>
>
> Matthew Rudolf
> Executive Director
> Piedmont Biofuels
> www.biofuels.coop
> 919-533-0172
>   



From biodiesel at yovo.info  Mon Aug  6 21:35:31 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:35:31 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bond and Motor Fuels Tax
In-Reply-To: <EAEBE258-68D2-4038-A575-9E58226449CF@biofuels.coop>
References: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOMEEDCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>	<46B66B2B.2040808@misteam.net>
	<EAEBE258-68D2-4038-A575-9E58226449CF@biofuels.coop>
Message-ID: <46B7CC63.6070304@yovo.info>

Matt,
excellent - thanks for clarifying this.

I have one lingering question: as a homebrewer of biodiesel in NC, do 
you think I still need to apply for a Biodiesel Provider license and 
report my on-road fuel use? I don't really see any reason why the NCDOR 
would care at this point ...

Jurgen



Matthew Rudolf wrote:
> Okay everybody,
> I have been crawling through this with a fine tooth comb since last  
> Friday so that when I finally reported back to everybody I would have  
> some useful information to share with everyone.  I'm not a tax  
> lawyer, I'm a homebrewer, so pouring through these statutes is  
> horribly painful for me, but hopefully this information will provide  
> some clarity.  This email will eventually be refined into a reference  
> for the new law, and for now here is the deal regarding the two new  
> laws as best as I can piece it together.
> 
> First of all, S540 (the bond requirement):
> The requirement to post a $2000 bond in order to remit road tax has  
> been lifted for all biodiesel producers whose "average expected  
> annual tax liability under this Article, as determined by the  
> Secretary, is at least two thousand dollars ($2,000)".  Currently  
> North Carolina motor fuels tax for biodiesel is $0.297/gal.  $2000  
> divided by $0.297 = 6734 gallons of biodiesel.  This means that if  
> you produce under 6734 gallons of biodiesel per year, you do NOT need  
> to post a bond in order to remit the motor fuels tax to the North  
> Carolina Department of Revenue, Motor Fuels Tax Division.  The amount  
> of road taxes due changes from time to time, and you can always check  
> the current NC motor fuels road tax at: http://www.dor.state.nc.us/ 
> taxes/motor/rates.html
> 
> Second of all, S1272 (the wavier of motor fuels tax):
> This is an interesting one because it came completely out of the  
> blue.  First of all, as Jurgen pointed out it did indeed morph from  
> an attempt to change the definition of biodiesel to more correctly  
> represent what biodiesel really is (ie. the ASTM spec).  Currently,  
> according to the North Carolina State Statutes for motor fuels (see:  
> http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ 
> ByArticle/Chapter_105/Article_36C.html) Biodiesel is defined as  
> "Biodiesel. ? Any fuel or mixture of fuels derived in whole or in  
> part from agricultural products or animal fats or wastes from these  
> products or fats."
> Reading this, two things come to mind:
> First off, this is an absolutely terrible definition of biodiesel,  
> and secondly, according to this definition SVO would be considered  
> biodiesel as far as the NC Dept. of Revenue is concerned.
> 
> At the last minute S1272 somehow morphed into a law that has exempted  
> "Biodiesel that is produced by an individual for use in a private  
> passenger vehicle registered in that individual's name" from paying  
> motor fuels tax.  This means that individual homebrewers (and SVOers  
> under the current NC definition of biodiesel) do not need to pay  
> motor fuels taxes at all, so the bond wavier mentioned above is a  
> moot point for them.  However, interestingly, this does not apply to  
> cooperatives, since the definition is very clear that this exemption  
> is for individuals, not business entities.  That said, if a biodiesel  
> producer cooperative makes under the 6734 gallons per year, they no  
> longer need to post a bond (see above), even though they still need  
> to pay road tax.  The motor fuels tax exemption law goes into effect  
> October 1, 2007.
> 
> Obviously this is wonderful and exciting news, however, why did the  
> DOR decide to completely change their course from altering the  
> definition to exempting homebrewers from road tax?  In fact, there is  
> a rumor that Conocophillips has been talking to the DOR about getting  
> the same biodiesel tax breaks for their "biodiesel" that they produce  
> on a massive scale through a thermal depolymerization process and  
> then blending it in their current diesel fuel.  This issue was  
> discussed on an earlier thread on the BIG list, or you can get more  
> information at: http://www.biodiesel.org/news/07clicktrhrus/ 
> 20070416_renewablediesel.shtm
> A potential problem if we don't change the definition of biodiesel to  
> reflect the ASTM D6751 spec is that companies may take advantage of  
> tax credits that were specifically designed to benefit biodiesel  
> producers.  Therefore, although the current definition is  
> advantageous to SVOers it is important that we continue to push to  
> update the definition.    I know SVOers are going to cringe, but we  
> need to continue to push to update this definition.
> 
> Finally, as far as the Feds are concerned one, you still need to pay  
> the IRS your fuel tax on a quarterly basis if you are a homebrewer.   
> We are working on updating the taxes section of our website to  
> include information on how to file with the Feds, or you can give us  
> a call at Piedmont Biofuels and in exchange for becoming a member we  
> can help get you set up to file with the IRS.  SVOers, unfortunately,  
> are still out of luck, as I still believe the EPA is not going to  
> consider SVO a legal fuel for use in the United States.  See the  
> following link: http://www.epa.gov/smartway/growandgo/documents/ 
> factsheet-biodiesel.htm
> 
> Hope this helps clear things up a bit.
> 
> Regards,
> Matt
> 
> 
> Matthew Rudolf
> Executive Director
> Piedmont Biofuels
> www.biofuels.coop
> 919-533-0172
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From mweaver at misteam.net  Sun Aug  5 23:54:50 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:54:50 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu>
Message-ID: <46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>

Model T's ran on ethanol - it was a toss up as to which fuel would win - 
big finds in oil nudged Ford to gasoline.

William Stott wrote:

> Great post. Thanks very much!
>
> Info-TFF wrote:
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject:     E-mail-A-Friend: Corn Can?t Solve Our Problem
>> Date:     Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:21:16 -0500
>> From:     info at theforestfoundation.org
>> To:     info at theforestfoundation.org
>>
>>
>>
>> The world has come full circle. A century ago our first 
>> transportation biofuels ? the hay and oats fed to our horses ? were 
>> replaced by gasoline. Today, ethanol from corn and biodiesel from 
>> soybeans have begun edging out gasoline and diesel.
>> This has been hailed as an overwhelmingly positive development that 
>> will help us reduce the threat of climate change and ease our 
>> dependence on foreign oil. In political circles, ethanol is the 
>> flavor of the day, and presidential candidates have been cycling 
>> through Iowa extolling its benefits. Lost in the ethanol-induced 
>> euphoria, however, is the fact that three of our most fundamental 
>> needs ? food, energy, and a livable and sustainable environment ? are 
>> now in direct conflict. Moreover, our recent analyses of the full 
>> costs and benefits of various biofuels, performed at the University 
>> of Minnesota, present a markedly different and more nuanced picture 
>> than has been heard on the campaign trail.
>>
>> For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:
>>
>> http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2007/04/01/news/opinion/opin81.txt
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  This e-mail contains information for the purpose of tracking abuse.
>>  If you believe this email is offensive or may be considered spam,
>>  please visit the website http://abuse.townnews.com and create an
>>  incident report. From this site you can also block messages like
>>  this from sending to your email address. Please retain this Mail-ID
>>  [6e42f4dab796aa90cc1c672ce722b36b], it's needed to view information
>>  associated with this message. Click the link below to view the 
>> incident.
>>  http://abuse.townnews.com/?MailID=6e42f4dab796aa90cc1c672ce722b36b
>>
>>
>>  Read the acceptable use policy: http://systems.townnews.com/public/aup/
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>   
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>


From shiftlink at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 23:28:00 2007
From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:28:00 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu> <46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>
Message-ID: <4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>

This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
resources of this earth.
Cameron

On 8/5/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
> Model T's ran on ethanol - it was a toss up as to which fuel would win -
> big finds in oil nudged Ford to gasoline.
>
> William Stott wrote:
>
> > Great post. Thanks very much!
> >
> > Info-TFF wrote:
> >
> >> -------- Original Message --------
> >> Subject:     E-mail-A-Friend: Corn Can't Solve Our Problem
> >> Date:     Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:21:16 -0500
> >> From:     info at theforestfoundation.org
> >> To:     info at theforestfoundation.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The world has come full circle. A century ago our first
> >> transportation biofuels ? the hay and oats fed to our horses ? were
> >> replaced by gasoline. Today, ethanol from corn and biodiesel from
> >> soybeans have begun edging out gasoline and diesel.
> >> This has been hailed as an overwhelmingly positive development that
> >> will help us reduce the threat of climate change and ease our
> >> dependence on foreign oil. In political circles, ethanol is the
> >> flavor of the day, and presidential candidates have been cycling
> >> through Iowa extolling its benefits. Lost in the ethanol-induced
> >> euphoria, however, is the fact that three of our most fundamental
> >> needs ? food, energy, and a livable and sustainable environment ? are
> >> now in direct conflict. Moreover, our recent analyses of the full
> >> costs and benefits of various biofuels, performed at the University
> >> of Minnesota, present a markedly different and more nuanced picture
> >> than has been heard on the campaign trail.
> >>
> >> For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:
> >>
> >> http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2007/04/01/news/opinion/opin81.txt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>  This e-mail contains information for the purpose of tracking abuse.
> >>  If you believe this email is offensive or may be considered spam,
> >>  please visit the website http://abuse.townnews.com and create an
> >>  incident report. From this site you can also block messages like
> >>  this from sending to your email address. Please retain this Mail-ID
> >>  [6e42f4dab796aa90cc1c672ce722b36b], it's needed to view information
> >>  associated with this message. Click the link below to view the
> >> incident.
> >>  http://abuse.townnews.com/?MailID=6e42f4dab796aa90cc1c672ce722b36b
> >>
> >>
> >>  Read the acceptable use policy: http://systems.townnews.com/public/aup/
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From kcfoxie at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 10:07:15 2007
From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:07:15 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu> <46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>
	<4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>

To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the land they
grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly for both
ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and paper, heck
our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its termed "weed"
because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces enough oil
per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting (can't
have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as horribly over
time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the paper for all
those bills the companies send out).

In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does. Plastics (an
Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the process it
takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after cooling), fuel,
clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been shown that
THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the tumor size.
This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still criminalize such a
helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is far more
complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating buddies
the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
investments post-Industrial Revolution.

Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on the "right track."

On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com> wrote:
> This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
> Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
> population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
> amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
> effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
> at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
> resources of this earth.
> Cameron

From mark at veggiediesel.org  Tue Aug  7 10:47:28 2007
From: mark at veggiediesel.org (Mark Puckett)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:47:28 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC SENATE BILL 1272
Message-ID: <BLEKKDPJLPNNLOHDKNGOGEEGCDAA.mark@veggiediesel.org>

Thank you Matt for digging into this and providing clearer information. You
also illuminated a key point. The effect of 1272 depends on the state's
definition of biodiesel and that is something that legislators are trying to
change. Currently that seems to include SVO/WVO, but if it changes to
specify the ASTM spec, SVO/WVO and possibly most homebrew biodiesel might
not qualify. Hopefully they will leave the current definition of biodiesel
in place and change the tax credit to use the ASTM spec.

I received a prompt reply from Senator Snow last night and he assured me
that the state's current definition of biodiesel includes SVO/WVO.

>From Senator Snow's email:
"...
Under the North Carolina tax code anything that is made of agriculture or
animal waste is considered biodiesel. This  definition includes SVO and the
ASTM definition of biodiesel within it for tax purposes.
...
One thing that I have been working on this session was to get the ASTM
D-6725 definition for biodiesel put in place so that we can ensure that
people that get a tax credit will have this definition to build to when they
are trying to get the tax credit. I think that this is something we're going
to get next session."

For now, I'll join the celebration. Removing the bond requirement for
reporting road taxes was a common sense thing to do and the exemption was an
unexpected recognition by state legislators that individuals should be
encouraged to use alternative fuels, not punished.

Mark Puckett









From markj.ambrose at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 11:53:46 2007
From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:53:46 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] On How Senate Bills Morph
Message-ID: <46B8958A.9090606@gmail.com>

I was thinking how odd it was that the NC Senate Bill to better define 
biodiesel morphed into a bill to exempt home brewers from the excise tax.

My guess is that the issue of the difficulty for SVOers and small home 
brewers paying the tax came to Se. Snow's attention after the deadline 
for filing bills, so the only option was to add the tax exemption as an 
amendment to a bill he had already filed.  An in the strange way that 
legislation happens, the addition can get enacted, even if the original 
bill it was attached to doesn't.

-- Mark.

From mweaver at misteam.net  Mon Aug  6 13:48:59 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:48:59 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] On How Senate Bills Morph
In-Reply-To: <46B8958A.9090606@gmail.com>
References: <46B8958A.9090606@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B75F0B.2010901@misteam.net>

Have you ever made sausage? ;-)

Mark J. Ambrose wrote:

>I was thinking how odd it was that the NC Senate Bill to better define 
>biodiesel morphed into a bill to exempt home brewers from the excise tax.
>
>My guess is that the issue of the difficulty for SVOers and small home 
>brewers paying the tax came to Se. Snow's attention after the deadline 
>for filing bills, so the only option was to add the tax exemption as an 
>amendment to a bill he had already filed.  An in the strange way that 
>legislation happens, the addition can get enacted, even if the original 
>bill it was attached to doesn't.
>
>-- Mark.
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From mweaver at misteam.net  Mon Aug  6 13:53:02 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:53:02 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu>
	<46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>	<4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B75FFE.6070306@misteam.net>

Or, lawns.  20 billion a year on a crop we can't eat...


Chris Browder wrote:

>To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
>plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the land they
>grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly for both
>ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and paper, heck
>our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its termed "weed"
>because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces enough oil
>per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
>cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting (can't
>have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as horribly over
>time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the paper for all
>those bills the companies send out).
>
>In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does. Plastics (an
>Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the process it
>takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after cooling), fuel,
>clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
>clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been shown that
>THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the tumor size.
>This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still criminalize such a
>helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is far more
>complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
>because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating buddies
>the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
>investments post-Industrial Revolution.
>
>Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on the "right track."
>
>On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
>>Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
>>population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
>>amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
>>effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
>>at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
>>resources of this earth.
>>Cameron
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From shiftlink at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 12:06:14 2007
From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:06:14 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <46B75FFE.6070306@misteam.net>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu> <46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>
	<4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B75FFE.6070306@misteam.net>
Message-ID: <4c758e6d0708070906p7aa103c1x2956af03cc600aa1@mail.gmail.com>

So all you need to do now is convince the golf club crowd that
industrial hemp is a fashionable choice for their front lawns!!  That
would be hilarious!  Aren't we the only industrialized nation to
outlaw industrial hemp?  I think I heard that on a documentary or
something.
 Cameron

On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
> Or, lawns.  20 billion a year on a crop we can't eat...
>
>
> Chris Browder wrote:
>
> >To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
> >plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the land they
> >grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly for both
> >ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and paper, heck
> >our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its termed "weed"
> >because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces enough oil
> >per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
> >cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting (can't
> >have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as horribly over
> >time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the paper for all
> >those bills the companies send out).
> >
> >In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does. Plastics (an
> >Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the process it
> >takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after cooling), fuel,
> >clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
> >clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been shown that
> >THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the tumor size.
> >This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still criminalize such a
> >helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is far more
> >complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
> >because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating buddies
> >the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
> >investments post-Industrial Revolution.
> >
> >Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on the "right track."
> >
> >On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
> >>Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
> >>population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
> >>amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
> >>effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
> >>at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
> >>resources of this earth.
> >>Cameron
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From mweaver at misteam.net  Mon Aug  6 14:09:33 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:09:33 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <4c758e6d0708070906p7aa103c1x2956af03cc600aa1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu>
	<46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>	<4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>	<1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>	<46B75FFE.6070306@misteam.net>
	<4c758e6d0708070906p7aa103c1x2956af03cc600aa1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B763DD.2010909@misteam.net>

I've learned it makes people mad if you grow tomatos and basil and so on 
in your front yard...

Cameron Conover wrote:

>So all you need to do now is convince the golf club crowd that
>industrial hemp is a fashionable choice for their front lawns!!  That
>would be hilarious!  Aren't we the only industrialized nation to
>outlaw industrial hemp?  I think I heard that on a documentary or
>something.
> Cameron
>
>On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>Or, lawns.  20 billion a year on a crop we can't eat...
>>
>>
>>Chris Browder wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
>>>plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the land they
>>>grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly for both
>>>ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and paper, heck
>>>our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its termed "weed"
>>>because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces enough oil
>>>per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
>>>cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting (can't
>>>have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as horribly over
>>>time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the paper for all
>>>those bills the companies send out).
>>>
>>>In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does. Plastics (an
>>>Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the process it
>>>takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after cooling), fuel,
>>>clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
>>>clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been shown that
>>>THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the tumor size.
>>>This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still criminalize such a
>>>helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is far more
>>>complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
>>>because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating buddies
>>>the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
>>>investments post-Industrial Revolution.
>>>
>>>Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on the "right track."
>>>
>>>On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
>>>>Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
>>>>population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
>>>>amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
>>>>effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
>>>>at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
>>>>resources of this earth.
>>>>Cameron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From kcfoxie at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 12:11:49 2007
From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:11:49 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <46B763DD.2010909@misteam.net>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu> <46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>
	<4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B75FFE.6070306@misteam.net>
	<4c758e6d0708070906p7aa103c1x2956af03cc600aa1@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B763DD.2010909@misteam.net>
Message-ID: <1bb86e040708070911m47889918s8332e589d111275a@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah,

and adding solar panels to my roof is an 'eye sore.'

what has the world come to? :(

On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
> I've learned it makes people mad if you grow tomatos and basil and so on
> in your front yard...
>
> Cameron Conover wrote:
>
> >So all you need to do now is convince the golf club crowd that
> >industrial hemp is a fashionable choice for their front lawns!!  That
> >would be hilarious!  Aren't we the only industrialized nation to
> >outlaw industrial hemp?  I think I heard that on a documentary or
> >something.
> > Cameron
> >
> >On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Or, lawns.  20 billion a year on a crop we can't eat...
> >>
> >>
> >>Chris Browder wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
> >>>plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the land they
> >>>grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly for both
> >>>ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and paper, heck
> >>>our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its termed "weed"
> >>>because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces enough oil
> >>>per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
> >>>cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting (can't
> >>>have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as horribly over
> >>>time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the paper for all
> >>>those bills the companies send out).
> >>>
> >>>In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does. Plastics (an
> >>>Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the process it
> >>>takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after cooling), fuel,
> >>>clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
> >>>clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been shown that
> >>>THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the tumor size.
> >>>This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still criminalize such a
> >>>helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is far more
> >>>complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
> >>>because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating buddies
> >>>the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
> >>>investments post-Industrial Revolution.
> >>>
> >>>Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on the "right track."
> >>>
> >>>On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
> >>>>Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
> >>>>population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
> >>>>amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
> >>>>effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
> >>>>at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
> >>>>resources of this earth.
> >>>>Cameron
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >
> >
>
>

From mweaver at misteam.net  Mon Aug  6 14:18:23 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:18:23 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <1bb86e040708070911m47889918s8332e589d111275a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu>
	<46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>	<4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>	<1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>	<46B75FFE.6070306@misteam.net>	<4c758e6d0708070906p7aa103c1x2956af03cc600aa1@mail.gmail.com>	<46B763DD.2010909@misteam.net>
	<1bb86e040708070911m47889918s8332e589d111275a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B765EF.2020001@misteam.net>

I've learned it pays to read the municipal codes *before* doing anything.


Chris Browder wrote:

>Yeah,
>
>and adding solar panels to my roof is an 'eye sore.'
>
>what has the world come to? :(
>
>On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>I've learned it makes people mad if you grow tomatos and basil and so on
>>in your front yard...
>>
>>Cameron Conover wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>So all you need to do now is convince the golf club crowd that
>>>industrial hemp is a fashionable choice for their front lawns!!  That
>>>would be hilarious!  Aren't we the only industrialized nation to
>>>outlaw industrial hemp?  I think I heard that on a documentary or
>>>something.
>>>Cameron
>>>
>>>On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Or, lawns.  20 billion a year on a crop we can't eat...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Chris Browder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
>>>>>plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the land they
>>>>>grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly for both
>>>>>ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and paper, heck
>>>>>our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its termed "weed"
>>>>>because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces enough oil
>>>>>per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
>>>>>cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting (can't
>>>>>have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as horribly over
>>>>>time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the paper for all
>>>>>those bills the companies send out).
>>>>>
>>>>>In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does. Plastics (an
>>>>>Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the process it
>>>>>takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after cooling), fuel,
>>>>>clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
>>>>>clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been shown that
>>>>>THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the tumor size.
>>>>>This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still criminalize such a
>>>>>helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is far more
>>>>>complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
>>>>>because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating buddies
>>>>>the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
>>>>>investments post-Industrial Revolution.
>>>>>
>>>>>Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on the "right track."
>>>>>
>>>>>On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
>>>>>>Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
>>>>>>population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
>>>>>>amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
>>>>>>effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
>>>>>>at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
>>>>>>resources of this earth.
>>>>>>Cameron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>  
>


From shiftlink at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 12:23:08 2007
From: shiftlink at gmail.com (Cameron Conover)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:23:08 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Corn Cant Solve Our Problem
In-Reply-To: <46B765EF.2020001@misteam.net>
References: <46B7388C.2020709@theforestfoundation.org>
	<46B75ED3.9040201@unc.edu> <46B69B8A.6060708@misteam.net>
	<4c758e6d0708062028v46ef2a6j6f1c151e1591bd4b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1bb86e040708070707q60eb304aq4d9444f98b00619b@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B75FFE.6070306@misteam.net>
	<4c758e6d0708070906p7aa103c1x2956af03cc600aa1@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B763DD.2010909@misteam.net>
	<1bb86e040708070911m47889918s8332e589d111275a@mail.gmail.com>
	<46B765EF.2020001@misteam.net>
Message-ID: <4c758e6d0708070923w356ef3cbj7b1101cecdd6b9a5@mail.gmail.com>

Or to avoid the municipality all together!

On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
> I've learned it pays to read the municipal codes *before* doing anything.
>
>
> Chris Browder wrote:
>
> >Yeah,
> >
> >and adding solar panels to my roof is an 'eye sore.'
> >
> >what has the world come to? :(
> >
> >On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I've learned it makes people mad if you grow tomatos and basil and so on
> >>in your front yard...
> >>
> >>Cameron Conover wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>So all you need to do now is convince the golf club crowd that
> >>>industrial hemp is a fashionable choice for their front lawns!!  That
> >>>would be hilarious!  Aren't we the only industrialized nation to
> >>>outlaw industrial hemp?  I think I heard that on a documentary or
> >>>something.
> >>>Cameron
> >>>
> >>>On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Or, lawns.  20 billion a year on a crop we can't eat...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Chris Browder wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
> >>>>>plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the land they
> >>>>>grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly for both
> >>>>>ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and paper, heck
> >>>>>our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its termed "weed"
> >>>>>because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces enough oil
> >>>>>per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
> >>>>>cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting (can't
> >>>>>have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as horribly over
> >>>>>time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the paper for all
> >>>>>those bills the companies send out).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does. Plastics (an
> >>>>>Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the process it
> >>>>>takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after cooling), fuel,
> >>>>>clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
> >>>>>clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been shown that
> >>>>>THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the tumor size.
> >>>>>This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still criminalize such a
> >>>>>helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is far more
> >>>>>complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
> >>>>>because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating buddies
> >>>>>the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
> >>>>>investments post-Industrial Revolution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on the "right track."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover <shiftlink at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really productive,
> >>>>>>Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc.  maybe the massive global human
> >>>>>>population is a huge part of this problem?  The production of massive
> >>>>>>amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive in the
> >>>>>>effort to build a balanced global ecology.  Not a popular way to look
> >>>>>>at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
> >>>>>>resources of this earth.
> >>>>>>Cameron
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >>>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >
> >
>
>

From mweaver at misteam.net  Mon Aug  6 16:08:49 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (Mike Weaver)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:08:49 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Ron Paul for President
	www.ronpaul2008.com
In-Reply-To: <384711.89025.qm@web50301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <384711.89025.qm@web50301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46B77FD1.5020509@misteam.net>

Kevin,

Are you just a man of few words or a very terse spammer?

-Mike "RuPaul for President" Weaver


kevin rooney wrote:

>
>
> */Mike Weaver <mweaver at misteam.net>/* wrote:
>
>     I've learned it pays to read the municipal codes *before* doing
>     anything.
>
>
>     Chris Browder wrote:
>
>     >Yeah,
>     >
>     >and adding solar panels to my roof is an 'eye sore.'
>     >
>     >what has the world come to? :(
>     >
>     >On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >>I've learned it makes people mad if you grow tomatos and basil
>     and so on
>     >>in your front yard...
>     >>
>     >>Cameron Conover wrote:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>>So all you need to do now is convince the golf club crowd that
>     >>>industrial hemp is a fashionable choice for their front lawns!!
>     That
>     >>>would be hilarious! Aren't we the only industrialized nation to
>     >>>outlaw industrial hemp? I think I heard that on a documentary or
>     >>>something.
>     >>>Cameron
>     >>>
>     >>>On 8/6/07, Mike Weaver wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>>Or, lawns. 20 billion a year on a crop we can't eat...
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>Chris Browder wrote:
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>>To expand on Cameron's comment... we also prohibit the growth of
>     >>>>>plants that could solve many problems that don't destroy the
>     land they
>     >>>>>grow on. Hemp makes a great fiber, it can also be used oddly
>     for both
>     >>>>>ethanol and biodiesel. Its fibers can replace cotton and
>     paper, heck
>     >>>>>our Declaration of Independence is written on hemp! Its
>     termed "weed"
>     >>>>>because it grows like kudzu, grows anywhere, and produces
>     enough oil
>     >>>>>per plant to warrant its use in the biofuels realm. A 50/50
>     >>>>>cotton/hemp mix would make clothes softer and longer lasting
>     (can't
>     >>>>>have that can we?), and hemp paper doesn't degrade as
>     horribly over
>     >>>>>time (again, can't have a truly renewable source for the
>     paper for all
>     >>>>>those bills the companies send out).
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>In many respects, Hemp offers as many uses as Soy does.
>     Plastics (an
>     >>>>>Australian outfit makes plastic out of Hemp, oddly in the
>     process it
>     >>>>>takes on a wooden/grained texture to the surface after
>     cooling), fuel,
>     >>>>>clothing, paper... so can do fuel and plastic, but not so much
>     >>>>>clothing or paper! To further the argument, it's also been
>     shown that
>     >>>>>THC can stop lung cancer in its tracks and even reduce the
>     tumor size.
>     >>>>>This is data from 10-year studies, why do we still
>     criminalize such a
>     >>>>>helpful plant? The problem of sustained energy and living is
>     far more
>     >>>>>complex when you look at what the government says we cannot use
>     >>>>>because it is bad for us, versus what their money generating
>     buddies
>     >>>>>the corporations want to farm and work with given their expensive
>     >>>>>investments post-Industrial Revolution.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>Many, many laws will need to be changed before we will be on
>     the "right track."
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>On 8/6/07, Cameron Conover wrote:
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>>This country does grow a lot of crops that aren't really
>     productive,
>     >>>>>>Surplus cotton, Tobacco, etc. maybe the massive global human
>     >>>>>>population is a huge part of this problem? The production of
>     massive
>     >>>>>>amounts of food for the human race may be counter productive
>     in the
>     >>>>>>effort to build a balanced global ecology. Not a popular way
>     to look
>     >>>>>>at things, but the massive population does put a strain on the
>     >>>>>>resources of this earth.
>     >>>>>>Cameron
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>_______________________________________________
>     >>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>     >>>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>     >>>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>_______________________________________________
>     >>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>     >>>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>     >>>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>_______________________________________________
>     >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>     >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>     >>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >_______________________________________________
>     >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>     >Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>     >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>     >
>     >
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>     Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>     http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47093/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222>to 
> see what's on, when. 



From info at theforestfoundation.org  Wed Aug  8 13:34:18 2007
From: info at theforestfoundation.org (Info-TFF)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 13:34:18 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] [Fwd: NYTimes.com: Cooking Up More Uses
 for the Leftovers of Biofuel Production]
Message-ID: <46B9FE9A.2070507@theforestfoundation.org>


	
The New York Times <http://www.nytimes.com/>E-mail This 
<http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&page=www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/business&pos=TopRight-EmailThis&camp=foxsearch2007-emailtools02b-nyt5-511278&ad=SUN_88x31.gif&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efoxsearchlight%2Ecom%2Fsunshine> 

*This page was sent to you by: * mdreyfors at yahoo.com

*BUSINESS *   | August 8, 2007
* The Energy Challenge:  Cooking Up More Uses for the Leftovers of 
Biofuel Production 
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/business/08biodiesel.html?ex=1187236800&en=4dd5579e2e680d3e&ei=5070&emc=eta1>* 

By HILLARY ROSNER
Scientists, entrepreneurs and venture capitalists are becoming 
increasingly interested in making more than fuel out of the raw 
materials for biodiesel fuel and ethanol.

	

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2. To Punish Thai Police, a Hello Kitty Armband 
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/world/asia/07cnd-thai.html?ex=1187236800&en=55e15adb735be00b&ei=5070&emc=eta1> 

3. Timbuktu Hopes Ancient Texts Spark a Revival 
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/world/africa/07mali.html?ex=1187236800&en=16d81058cc4ad583&ei=5070&emc=eta1> 

4. Basics: Its Poor Reputation Aside, Our Fat Is Doing Us a Favor 
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/science/07angi.html?ex=1187236800&en=67df950914c390e7&ei=5070&emc=eta1> 

5. Practical Traveler | Overcoming the Exchange Rate: 10 Ways to Keep 
Europe Within Reach 
<http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/travel/05practical.html?ex=1187236800&en=b6a0631ea91c2a9a&ei=5070&emc=eta1> 


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From pcantrell at gmail.com  Wed Aug  8 23:02:07 2007
From: pcantrell at gmail.com (Paul S Cantrell)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 23:02:07 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] SVO Conversion loan on Prosper.com
Message-ID: <aa8505380708082002l1bafac3w4d252971111f3a39@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if anyone has heard of Prosper.com, but I have recently
become involved there after hearing a story about it on NPR.  I look
for listings that are green and/or energy/biofuel related.  Anyone
else on there?

Anyway, this listing is to convert a Mercedes diesel to SVO/WVO:
http://tinyurl.com/2m8pev


-- 
Thanks,
Paul

He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch

From don.brannon at gmail.com  Thu Aug  9 09:57:55 2007
From: don.brannon at gmail.com (Don Brannon)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:57:55 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] The Biodiesel Bullet Bike,
	from Popular Science
Message-ID: <058B2A33-8C83-4DDD-A4FF-E0856F801BAE@gmail.com>

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/environment/ 
ac2e09e7eec93110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

From biodiesel at yovo.info  Fri Aug 10 15:36:31 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:36:31 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Happy Internationall Biodiesel Day
Message-ID: <46BCBE3F.1010508@yovo.info>

On this day in 1893 Rudolf Diesel?s engine ran for the first time, and 
it ran on peanut oil. So today we celebrate ?International Biodiesel 
Day? and raise our glasses to the genius of using fuel that grows back!

Praise the Lard!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Historical_background

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen Henn
          2002 Jetta TDI
  40/50 MPG on biodiesel
http://words.yovo.info/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From wrenchwench at blast.com  Fri Aug 10 20:56:29 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 20:56:29 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fall Biofuels/Sustainability Classes @
	CCCC
References: <46BAED600200004300001AC9@groupwise.cccc.edu>
Message-ID: <8A7650B3-F401-41BC-9EE0-E5915B67DBCA@blast.com>





> From: "Andrew McMahan" <ajmcma23 at cccc.edu>
> Date: August 9, 2007 10:33:04 AM EDT
> To: "Rachel  Burton" <wrenchwench at blast.com>
> Subject: Fall Biofuels/Sustainability Classes @ CCCC
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> This fall Central Carolina Community College will be offering a  
> number of courses on biofuels, sustainability, green building  
> practices, and sustainable agriculture through their continuing  
> education department.  All of the classes will be based out of the  
> Pittsboro Campus of CCCC.  Most of the classes meet once a week in  
> the evening and last from six to twelve weeks.
>
> Courses for the fall include:
> Intro to Biofuels
> Biofuels II (different guest speaker each week)
> Biofuels Analytics
> Sustainable Living: A Practical Guide (recommended to be taken with  
> Sustainability 101)
> Sustainability 101(field trip based)
> Natural Building
> Energy-10T
> Fiber Animals
> Growing Organic Vegetables
> Organic Farming
> Permaculture
> Sustainable Cut Flowers
> Solar Electricity
> Wild, Edible, and Medical Flowers
> Green Building Construction Strategies
>
>
> Class starting dates range from late August to early October so  
> check the following link for more details on specific classes  
> (pages 24 and 25 of the document)  or feel free to contact me with  
> questions.
>
> http://www.cccc.edu/resources/PDFs/flexi.pdf
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
> Andrew McMahan
> Biofuels Coordinator
> Central Carolina Community College
> (919).542.6495 x214
> amcmahan at cccc.edu


From aibodkin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 22:38:38 2007
From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:38:38 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] HW Tank sale
Message-ID: <a7ab88920708101938s899bc43jc612f6eb29c68990@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry about the cross post but I thought this was pretty big news...
Lowes on 15/501 has a 30% off display model hot water tanks...if you
have sidelined waiting for a "deal" on a Bio processor (as I have
been) opportunity awaits...

Cheers
Andy

From mattr at biofuels.coop  Fri Aug 17 14:48:32 2007
From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:48:32 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Green Building class today
References: <25204.32220.qm@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <701B5BF1-08C1-4EAC-9EA6-A97962E9A781@biofuels.coop>



Begin forwarded message:

> Fall 2007 Green Building Class
>
> Taught by Stephen Hren, 683-2619.  Email:
> themudranch at yahoo.com
>
> Eight session - Four in-class periods at CCCC campus
> in Pittsboro, four hands on sessions in Person County
> at Bernard Obie's farm.  Students will be exptected to
> attend at least three of each for successful
> completion of the class.  Carpooling will be arranged
> for each.  Please contact me if you either have space
> in your car or need a ride.
>
> Syllabus
>
> 1st Class  Tues, August 21st  7-9pm
> -  Our homes impact on ourselves and our environment
> -  Sink limits (global climate disruption, pollution,
> etc)
> -  Source limits (peak oil, efficiencies of current
> renewables, etc)
> -  What is Green Building?
> -  Film
> -  Design workshop
>
> 1st Workshop  Sat, August 25th  10am-4pm
> Hands on experience with natural building:  straw
> bale, waddle and daub, natural plasters, etc
>
> 2nd Class  Tues, Sept. 4th  7-9pm
> -  Fundmentals of structures and loads
> -  Natural building materials and their interaction to
> load and environmental stresses
> -  Basic natural materials
> -  Codes and natural materials
>
> 2nd Workshop  Sat, Sept. 8th  10am-4pm
> Continue with building of cob/strawbale
> greenhouse/cooler
> Solar pathfinder demonstration
>
> 3rd Class  Tues, Sept. 18th
> -  Our daily solar energy budget
> -  The solar window and passive solar design
> -  Storing surplus energy
> -  Heat and how it moves
> -  Landscaping, green roofs and walls
>
> 3rd Workshop  Sat, Sept. 22nd 10am-4pm
> Continue building out at Obie's farm, tour finished
> off grid cob home
>
> 4th Class, Tues. Oct. 2nd  7-9pm
> -  Renewable energy basics, including PV, solar hot
> water, and solar thermal
> -  Appliances and wasted energy
> -  Conclusions, discussion, where to begin
>
> 4th Workshop  Sun, Oct. 7th 10am-4pm
> Finish up out at Obie's farm, rendevous in Durham for
> tour of urban permaculture
>
> For registration call Central Carolina Community
> College 1.919.542.6495

Matthew Rudolf
Piedmont Biofuels
www.biofuels.coop



From transfur1 at gmx.net  Sat Aug 18 23:27:01 2007
From: transfur1 at gmx.net (transfur1 at gmx.net)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 05:27:01 +0200
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] For sale : 1986 VW Golf diesel, 202K,
	5-speed, AC.
Message-ID: <20070819032701.200370@gmx.net>


This car has been "gone through" in a manner which can only be described
as obsessive. Virtually everything it needed or even _might_ need has been done. The car was sold new at Star VW in Durham, and it has always
lived in NC, which means it has no rust.

The work done includes, but is not limited to, a suspension which is 100% new, brand new Yokohama all-season tires, German-made ATS alloy wheels, Recaro seats, and too much more to list here ( I know people will wonder mainly about the timing belt,and it's got 1200 miles on it since new, along with a new tensioner ). The AC is the coldest I've seen in any VW, by a wide margin - even during the ( hellish ) heat last week, the AC was so cold that I had to move the air mixing lever such that heat 
was mixed with the cooled air ( either that or put on a jacket ! ).

I originally intended to keep this car forever, but I have new plans which involve moving abroad, and sadly the car cannot go with me.

I am asking $4400. The condition of this car more than justifies the price, and this will be apparent to any knowledgable person who sees it and drives it. To put it another way, this car will in a short time be far less expensive than a car which initially cost less, because it will need no major maintenance for years to come.

Photos here : 

http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u164/schweinfahrer/VW%20Golf%20diesel/

If interested, please email me here :

transfur1 at gmx.net

and include a phone number where you can be reached ( and please indicate what time intervals during which you'd prefer to receive a call ).

It might not be obvious, so I had better mention that I cannot take a car in trade, nor can I "take payments" in the manner of an installment loan.

                                   cheers,

                                     Ed




-- 
Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt?
Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger

From george at sunsetcoachmen.com  Sun Aug 19 11:32:33 2007
From: george at sunsetcoachmen.com (George Bostic)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:32:33 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] BioDiesel Ready Peugeots For Sale
Message-ID: <20070819153247.A798A45F76A@smtp21.dc2.safesecureweb.com>

Sunset Coachmen in Charlotte, NC has several 505's and one 604 ready for the
road. Autos have been checked out mechanically from front to rear. All fuel
lines and the fuel filter have been replaced.  The injection pumps were
rebuilt and calibrated by Southeast Power Systems. A/C systems work and have
been converted to R-134. Prices range from $2500 to $6500. Automatic and
5-speeds are available. For details and photos please contact George @
704.491.6278. 



From transfur1 at gmx.net  Sun Aug 19 22:40:57 2007
From: transfur1 at gmx.net (transfur1 at gmx.net)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:40:57 +0200
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] update re : For sale : 1986 VW Golf
	diesel, 202K. etc.
Message-ID: <20070820024057.107590@gmx.net>



The car I am selling does _not_ have a sunroof. This means it is lighter,
and it also has a lower center of gravity due to the location of the weight at the top of the car. Most significantly, this means it has several inches more headroom. Also, it thus lacks a source for leaks, which can be expensive to cure.

Having said that, there IS a company in Raleigh which does very nice installs of Webasto ( German designed / Belgian made ) sunroofs which are electrically operated and have a wireless remote available as an option. These sunroofs cost between $1200 and $1800, but the result is well worth it, and is indistinguishable from a factory OEM sunroof. I forget the name of this company, but they're in the Yellow Pages.

******************************************************

NOTE :

I am currently experiencing severe problems with my internet service provider, and I request that anyone who has questions about the 
Golf diesel I'm selling _please_ EMAIL ME WITH A PHONE NUMBER, BECAUSE I CANNOT SEND OR RECEIVE EMAILS as would normally be the case. ( a word to the wise : avoid DSL via what was once Bellsouth and is now "the new AT&T" ).

Sorry for the "caps lock" ( I do realize it's tantamount to yelling ) but it seems to be the only way to make sure people actually read something these days.



-- 
GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail

From carolinabiofuels at gmail.com  Mon Aug 20 01:07:18 2007
From: carolinabiofuels at gmail.com (Harry John Albert)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:07:18 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] update re : For sale : 1986 VW Golf
	diesel, 202K. etc.
In-Reply-To: <b1ef95f10708192159u518090ecp491c26bdb6606bbc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070820024057.107590@gmx.net>
	<b1ef95f10708192159u518090ecp491c26bdb6606bbc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b1ef95f10708192207o38390f0fkfa2b6389d15f6b33@mail.gmail.com>

Notice in advance that the email I received from this individual
contains language no appropriate fro children.  I would not normally
do this, but after my experience with this individual, I would like to
save someone else the trouble.  If anyone needs references as to my
integrity and reputation, just ask. I copied and pasted this from an
email transaction I received from this individual after I went to look
at this golf he is selling.  I had bought a car from him a few years
ago, so I thought it would be ok to deal with him again. I was wrong.
 So if any of you know me, as some of you may, do not bother
contacting him, as I have disgusted him that much since I drove six
hours to look at his car, and did not buy it.  This is the email I
received after I got home.  The subject said "OK I will sell you the
golf for 2800",  Which is funny because I told him before I went to
look at it that If I did not want to pay his price, I would not ask to
pay less, I just would not buy it.  John



... just kidding. It's no longer for sale to you, at any price.



It's an understatement to say I was disgusted by the manner in which
my time was wasted by you today ( arriving an hour late was a
particularly nice touch ... I bet you didn't do that shit in the
Marines ) and by the persistent and appalling rudeness of your wife's
interruptions on the cell phone. I'm certain she was calling you
specifically to prevent you buying the car. If you let your wife push
you around like that you're a pathetic pussywhipped pretender at
being a man.

There's not a thing wrong mechanically with my car. You don't know
nearly as much about cars as you seem to believe you do  ( "...what's
a stub axle ?" ). I would have been more impressed if you'd had the
courage to admit that your wife told you not to buy it, and you had
to obey her because she had your balls in a vise.

Don't bother "sending me someone" who might "be interested" in my car
- if they even
_know_ you, I'm not interested in knowing them for any reason.

I don't want to hear from you EVER again, so I can forget about how
my time has been wasted, and quit being so pissed off I'm ready to
eat 16D nails and shit machine gun bullets.

                                                                Ed


PS - I don't wonder that your wife _does_ want to control which cars
you buy, after you paid
         $6000 for that Dasher ( when I told my buddy at the shop
what you paid, he said
         you ought to be locked in a padded room ... LOL !!! ).






 ReplyForwardInvite da to Gmail









 Reply

  Reply to all Forward  Print  Add Harry to Contacts list  Delete this
message Report phishing  Show original  Message text garbled?
 Harry John Albert
to da
show details Jul 28  Ed,      Wow, talk about courage.

I received this email when I signed on to send you the timing info
like I said I would.  I do not know what your deal is, but based on
this email, I am glad I did not buy the car.  My wife was calling
because she could not figure out the complicated 15 year old alarm
system on the house we just bought.  I swear on my grave she did not
say a word about the car. She trusts me to make good decisions.

I do not know what conversation you remember, but I am fairly sure I
said between 10 and 11. When I called you at 10:05 to let you know I
would be arriving in about 30 minutes you did not sound like you had a
problem, then you even called back to tell us to stop and get a bite
to eat since the people at Wendy's had been so slow that I asked for
our money back.  I thought that was very nice of you.

If this is how you deal with your anger thats fine.  I have known lots
of people who have bigger issues then that.

I really do think that your golf is a good car, It just did not feel
right.  If it had been the first diesel vw I had driven I probably
would have bought it, but I guess I have driven enough to know that
there is something specific I am looking for, and for the price you
are asking, I could not purchase it and still be happy, and I know
that you have worked hard on the car, and that it is worth that to
someone, so I do not feel bad in taking the time to look.  In one of
our phone conversations I told you that if I liked it and it felt
right (or something to that effect) I would buy it.  You said there
was no pressure, and wanted me to have the opportunity to purchase the
car. (obviously these are not quotes, just what I recall).  If I had
known that it would bother you so much if I did not want it, I would
not have wasted your time, or mine.

Regarding the dasher, There are some times that I agree with your
buddy, mainly because I trusted some one else when I should not have.
 The car may have been expensive, as well as over priced for what it
has turned out to be, but the lesson has been worth every penny.

Regarding your opinion of me as an individual, I am sorry you feel
that way.  I do not think there is any thing I could have said or done
that would make you a happier person, or raise your opinion of me.  I
really did appreciate your help looking at the hub, and the advice you
gave me.

Good luck selling your cars, and moving. I hope you like the people
more somewhere else.  John
- Hide quoted text -

On 7/28/07, da < disposable_addy at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> ... just kidding. It's no longer for sale to you, at any price.
>
>
>
> It's an understatement to say I was disgusted by the manner in which
> my time was wasted by you today ( arriving an hour late was a
> particularly nice touch ... I bet you didn't do that shit in the
> Marines ) and by the persistent and appalling rudeness of your wife's
> interruptions on the cell phone. I'm certain she was calling you
> specifically to prevent you buying the car. If you let your wife push
> you around like that you're a pathetic pussywhipped pretender at
> being a man.
>
> There's not a thing wrong mechanically with my car. You don't know
> nearly as much about cars as you seem to believe you do  ( "...what's
> a stub axle ?" ). I would have been more impressed if you'd had the
> courage to admit that your wife told you not to buy it, and you had
> to obey her because she had your balls in a vise.
>
> Don't bother "sending me someone" who might "be interested" in my car
> - if they even
> _know_ you, I'm not interested in knowing them for any reason.
>
> I don't want to hear from you EVER again, so I can forget about how
> my time has been wasted, and quit being so pissed off I'm ready to
> eat 16D nails and shit machine gun bullets.
>
>                                                                 Ed
>
>
> PS - I don't wonder that your wife _does_ want to control which cars
> you buy, after you paid
>          $6000 for that Dasher ( when I told my buddy at the shop
> what you paid, he said
>          you ought to be locked in a padded room ... LOL !!! ).
>


 On 8/19/07, transfur1 at gmx.net <transfur1 at gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> The car I am selling does _not_ have a sunroof. This means it is lighter,
> and it also has a lower center of gravity due to the location of the weight at the top of the car. Most significantly, this means it has several inches more headroom. Also, it thus lacks a source for leaks, which can be expensive to cure.
>
> Having said that, there IS a company in Raleigh which does very nice installs of Webasto ( German designed / Belgian made ) sunroofs which are electrically operated and have a wireless remote available as an option. These sunroofs cost between $1200 and $1800, but the result is well worth it, and is indistinguishable from a factory OEM sunroof. I forget the name of this company, but they're in the Yellow Pages.
>
> ******************************************************
>
> NOTE :
>
> I am currently experiencing severe problems with my internet service provider, and I request that anyone who has questions about the
> Golf diesel I'm selling _please_ EMAIL ME WITH A PHONE NUMBER, BECAUSE I CANNOT SEND OR RECEIVE EMAILS as would normally be the case. ( a word to the wise : avoid DSL via what was once Bellsouth and is now "the new AT&T" ).
>
> Sorry for the "caps lock" ( I do realize it's tantamount to yelling ) but it seems to be the only way to make sure people actually read something these days.
>
>
>
> --
> GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
> Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>  Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From transfur1 at gmx.net  Mon Aug 20 17:33:52 2007
From: transfur1 at gmx.net (transfur1 at gmx.net)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:33:52 +0200
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] update re : For sale : 1986 VW Golf
 diesel, 202K. etc.
Message-ID: <20070820213352.123050@gmx.net>


QUOTE :
On Aug 20, 2007, at 1:07 AM, Harry John Albert wrote:

Notice in advance that the email I received from this individual
contains language no appropriate fro children.  I would not normally
do this, but after my experience with this individual, I would like to
save someone else the trouble. <rest snipped to keep this brief )
END QUOTE
______________________________

The above message has no place in this biodiesel list, and I would have hoped the moderator would have caught it and prevented it from being posted. Regrettably, this did not happen.

I AM the seller of the Golf diesel in question.

Personal vendettas have NO place on a mailing list, and I am not going to misuse this mailing list to pursue a counter-argument. If anyone wants a really nice Golf diesel, I invite them to come see and drive the car I am selling.

Let's keep the personal stuff where it belongs, and that's not in a public mailing list.



-- 
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! 
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

From bruce.sprague at gilbarco.com  Mon Aug 20 17:39:44 2007
From: bruce.sprague at gilbarco.com (Sprague, Bruce)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:39:44 -0700
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Please remove me from this list.
In-Reply-To: <20070820213352.123050@gmx.net>
References: <20070820213352.123050@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <9F458056801E574DAA4F35425547526701D2BD6F@dhrseasvxb04.messaging.danaherad.com>


Please remove me from this list. 

-----Original Message-----
From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of transfur1 at gmx.net
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 5:34 PM
To: Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] update re : For sale : 1986 VW Golf diesel, 202K. etc.


QUOTE :
On Aug 20, 2007, at 1:07 AM, Harry John Albert wrote:

Notice in advance that the email I received from this individual contains language no appropriate fro children.  I would not normally do this, but after my experience with this individual, I would like to save someone else the trouble. <rest snipped to keep this brief ) END QUOTE ______________________________

The above message has no place in this biodiesel list, and I would have hoped the moderator would have caught it and prevented it from being posted. Regrettably, this did not happen.

I AM the seller of the Golf diesel in question.

Personal vendettas have NO place on a mailing list, and I am not going to misuse this mailing list to pursue a counter-argument. If anyone wants a really nice Golf diesel, I invite them to come see and drive the car I am selling.

Let's keep the personal stuff where it belongs, and that's not in a public mailing list.



--
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! 
Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
_______________________________________________
Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group


This message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee.  
Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on 
the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may 
constitute a violation of law.  If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to 
this e-mail, and delete the message from your system.  If you 
have any questions about this e-mail please notify the sender 
immediately. 

From panthercat at gmail.com  Mon Aug 20 18:31:44 2007
From: panthercat at gmail.com (panthercat at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:31:44 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Please remove me from this list.
In-Reply-To: <9F458056801E574DAA4F35425547526701D2BD6F@dhrseasvxb04.messaging.danaherad.com>
References: <20070820213352.123050@gmx.net>
	<9F458056801E574DAA4F35425547526701D2BD6F@dhrseasvxb04.messaging.danaherad.com>
Message-ID: <4b6e46c90708201531h4c5188a0hffc113f2b4e7fc22@mail.gmail.com>

Please keep me on this list.  I love bio-hippie drama.
-Carlos

On 8/20/07, Sprague, Bruce <bruce.sprague at gilbarco.com> wrote:
>
> Please remove me from this list.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of transfur1 at gmx.net
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 5:34 PM
> To: Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] update re : For sale : 1986 VW Golf diesel, 202K. etc.
>
>
> QUOTE :
> On Aug 20, 2007, at 1:07 AM, Harry John Albert wrote:
>
> Notice in advance that the email I received from this individual contains language no appropriate fro children.  I would not normally do this, but after my experience with this individual, I would like to save someone else the trouble. <rest snipped to keep this brief ) END QUOTE ______________________________
>
> The above message has no place in this biodiesel list, and I would have hoped the moderator would have caught it and prevented it from being posted. Regrettably, this did not happen.
>
> I AM the seller of the Golf diesel in question.
>
> Personal vendettas have NO place on a mailing list, and I am not going to misuse this mailing list to pursue a counter-argument. If anyone wants a really nice Golf diesel, I invite them to come see and drive the car I am selling.
>
> Let's keep the personal stuff where it belongs, and that's not in a public mailing list.
>
>
>
> --
> Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
> and/or proprietary information intended only for the addressee.
> Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on
> the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
> constitute a violation of law.  If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately by responding to
> this e-mail, and delete the message from your system.  If you
> have any questions about this e-mail please notify the sender
> immediately.
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From shipyardphil at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 20 19:12:23 2007
From: shipyardphil at yahoo.com (Phil Carter)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How a bout Fuso NPR Box truck
In-Reply-To: <46BCBE3F.1010508@yovo.info>
Message-ID: <473975.76235.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello:

I am thinking of getting a Mitsubishi Fuso or Izuzu
NPR for my business and running it on SVO or
biodiesel.

Does anyone have any experience related to using
alternative fuels in these vehicles. At a later date I
may try a Dodge Sprinter.

Thanks for any info....

Cheers,
Phil


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

From tavanas at gmail.com  Mon Aug 20 19:30:45 2007
From: tavanas at gmail.com (t avanas)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:30:45 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How a bout Fuso NPR Box truck
References: <473975.76235.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <048301c7e382$240799c0$59656b80@amer.cisco.com>

a friend in Pittsboro is selling one, let me know if you need details.

-saeed
one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Carter" <shipyardphil at yahoo.com>
To: "Jurgen Henn" <biodiesel at yovo.info>; "BIG" 
<biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>; <members at biodiesel.yovo.info>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How a bout Fuso NPR Box truck


> Hello:
>
> I am thinking of getting a Mitsubishi Fuso or Izuzu
> NPR for my business and running it on SVO or
> biodiesel.
>
> Does anyone have any experience related to using
> alternative fuels in these vehicles. At a later date I
> may try a Dodge Sprinter.
>
> Thanks for any info....
>
> Cheers,
> Phil
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who 
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group 


From carolinabiofuels at gmail.com  Mon Aug 20 21:51:21 2007
From: carolinabiofuels at gmail.com (Harry John Albert)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:51:21 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] update re : For sale : 1986 VW Golf
	diesel, 202K. etc.
In-Reply-To: <20070820213352.123050@gmx.net>
References: <20070820213352.123050@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <b1ef95f10708201851s3d43207btd5fe08f9dda1ba93@mail.gmail.com>

I agree. This is not a place for personal vendettas. I just want to
clarify: To all who may have considered buying this car, It is a very
nice golf.   I had no problem with the seller until I received that
email. He was never rude to me until that email. Today we spoke on the
phone.  He apologized for the email he sent me. I asked him to more
considerate of other people and try and treat people decent.  All he
wants to do is sell the car so he can move.   If you are looking for a
good solid diesel car that has had all of the maintenance items done,
has cold a/c and a smooth ride, this is a good car to consider.  The
seller has unsubscribed from this list, and wishes not to hear from
anyone on it unless it is related to buying the car.

On 8/20/07, transfur1 at gmx.net <transfur1 at gmx.net> wrote:
>
> QUOTE :
> On Aug 20, 2007, at 1:07 AM, Harry John Albert wrote:
>
> Notice in advance that the email I received from this individual
> contains language no appropriate fro children.  I would not normally
> do this, but after my experience with this individual, I would like to
> save someone else the trouble. <rest snipped to keep this brief )
> END QUOTE
> ______________________________
>
> The above message has no place in this biodiesel list, and I would have hoped the moderator would have caught it and prevented it from being posted. Regrettably, this did not happen.
>
> I AM the seller of the Golf diesel in question.
>
> Personal vendettas have NO place on a mailing list, and I am not going to misuse this mailing list to pursue a counter-argument. If anyone wants a really nice Golf diesel, I invite them to come see and drive the car I am selling.
>
> Let's keep the personal stuff where it belongs, and that's not in a public mailing list.
>
>
>
> --
> Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
> Ideal f?r Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From dentonconrad at netzero.net  Tue Aug 21 08:10:41 2007
From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:10:41 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel fuels an industry
Message-ID: <46CAD641.2050301@netzero.net>


    *Biodiesel fuels an industry*

*
http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/677412.html*



From kcfoxie at gmail.com  Tue Aug 21 10:20:42 2007
From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:20:42 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel fuels an industry
In-Reply-To: <46CAD641.2050301@netzero.net>
References: <46CAD641.2050301@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <1bb86e040708210720s28907b7bt274bb3bd888260d1@mail.gmail.com>

Seeing stories like this makes me smile. Link was broken for me, but
searching their site for Biodiesel found the article.

In all reality, when an unsubsidized fuel costs 3.50 and the
subsidized fuel is nearing or basically at 3.00 with all the taxes
included, it makes one wonder. If Dean takes on part of Texas, I bet
those of us using B100 will be paying less for fuel than anyone using
Petrol. (I remember the 4.19 diesel pricing of Katrina, tho that was
mostly in Tennessee).

On 8/21/07, Denton Conrad <dentonconrad at netzero.net> wrote:
>
>     *Biodiesel fuels an industry*
>
> *
> http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/677412.html*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From tami at blast.com  Tue Aug 21 10:54:32 2007
From: tami at blast.com (Tami Schwerin)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:54:32 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel fuels an industry
In-Reply-To: <1bb86e040708210720s28907b7bt274bb3bd888260d1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46CAD641.2050301@netzero.net>
	<1bb86e040708210720s28907b7bt274bb3bd888260d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A32D2DEA-DE4A-45D1-8D14-DE697A13EAF4@blast.com>

The link had an extra * in it....

Here it is:
http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/677412.html


Tami Schwerin
tami at blast.com
919-444-9300
http://www.theabundancefoundation.org





On Aug 21, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Chris Browder wrote:

> Seeing stories like this makes me smile. Link was broken for me, but
> searching their site for Biodiesel found the article.
>
> In all reality, when an unsubsidized fuel costs 3.50 and the
> subsidized fuel is nearing or basically at 3.00 with all the taxes
> included, it makes one wonder. If Dean takes on part of Texas, I bet
> those of us using B100 will be paying less for fuel than anyone using
> Petrol. (I remember the 4.19 diesel pricing of Katrina, tho that was
> mostly in Tennessee).
>
> On 8/21/07, Denton Conrad <dentonconrad at netzero.net> wrote:
>>
>>     *Biodiesel fuels an industry*
>>
>> *
>> http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/677412.html*
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group


From backhausf at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 21 20:06:03 2007
From: backhausf at earthlink.net (96ramdiesel)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:06:03 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] methanol for your hobby.
Message-ID: <3932700.1187741163409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Is anybody in Raleigh interested in buying methanol for their hobby. I have a connection to get methanol (racing fuel, around 96-97%)by the 55 gallon drum. I don't need it all and figured i'd share if there is enough interest. It would cost around $3.25 a gallon.

From wrenchwench at blast.com  Wed Aug 22 11:48:47 2007
From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:48:47 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] PLEASE READ
In-Reply-To: <84a57a420708211016h5039bccfo5251ac27367ed9f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84a57a420708211016h5039bccfo5251ac27367ed9f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DFCC6CA4-362D-47FD-A85D-13A8E0AA27A3@blast.com>

Hello folks,

This a reminder of the listserve rules:

But before you post, please take a few minutes to read the following  
rules and guidelines about posting on this listserve.  By being  
mindful of the rules, everyone can have a good time talking about  
biofuels. The normal rules of civil discourse and netiquette apply to  
users of the BIG list:

Edit your replies.  When replying to a previous post, select the  
meaningful portions, and quote from it, but do not include the entire  
text in your reply.

Use ?in-line,? rather than using ?on-top? responses.
Example:
Quote from post
?your reply
Quote from post
?your reply

?On-top? responses tend to reverse the conversation, make things  
exceedingly hard to follow and are commonly ignored by many subscribers

Provide links instead of whole articles.  If your post is of  
interest, the reader can link out to it and enjoy it with a browser,  
rather than using their mail client.  Not all text formats appear  
correctly in all mail clients.  Formatting problems can be eliminated  
by providing links.

Keep advertisements to a minimum.  A lot of diesel vehicles are  
traded on this list, which is fine, but the number of posts selling  
goods and services should be proportional to other contributions you  
make to the conversation.  This is not a commercial list.

No inappropriate language or subject matter will be tolerated. If you  
chose to post something that is inappropriate, you will be  
permanently banned from the listserve. No warnings will be given. If  
you have a question about what is inappropriate and what is not,  
please ask before you post and we will be happy to guide you on this  
matter.

Please try to keep your ?signature? to a minimum. It is extremely  
difficult to follow posts with short messages and really long  
signatures. Also, high graphic signatures eat up a lot of bandwidth  
and slow things down. If you have signatures that fit either of these  
descriptions, we ask that you modify them when using this list.

Please stay on-topic or your post will be deleted. Please keep your  
post to the topics listed above. Casual conversations between posters  
will be deleted without notice. We do not use ?chat room? or ?short- 
cut English? on this list. Posts using, for example, ?kewl,? ?u? for  
?you,? or no capitalization or punctuation will be deleted.  While it  
is true that we do ?lyt ? (luv ya tons), we prefer proper usage.

Disagreeing with another poster will inevitably happen. However,  
?flaming? another poster will not be tolerated. You can post a  
dissenting opinion without attacking another poster. If you do, you  
will be banned.

 From time to time you will receive messages from the BIG list  
administrators.  These messages will have Please Read in the subject  
line, and they will notify list users of maintenance, or other issues  
associated with the list.

Please do not post messages directly to the webmaster or  
administrator. The only exception would be to notify them that there  
is a technical problem with the list. They are here to make sure  
things run smoothly and that posters are following the rules ? not to  
get into discussions/debates with posters.

For virus control, the BIG list does not accept attachments.  They  
are stripped off before messages are sent to list members.  This way  
it is not possible to get a virus from the BIG list.
 From time to time you will receive messages from the BIG list  
administrators.  These messages will have Please Read in the subject  
line, and they will notify list users of maintenance, or other issues  
associated with the list.
For more information on netiquette, try Ben Goren?s ?Play Nice,  
Children?: http://www.trumpetpower.com/Rants/Netiquette.

We are grateful to Keith Addison for his ?Rules of the List,? which  
you can visit at:
http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/000005.html

Our goal is to further information sharing about biofuels throughout  
the Southeast and  North Carolina.  It is important to have a place  
to network with others who are producing, using or researching biofuels.

Thanks.

From biodiesel at yovo.info  Wed Aug 22 20:10:12 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:10:12 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1989 GMC Suburban 6.2 diesel in Durham
Message-ID: <46CCD064.8070505@yovo.info>

FYI
I checked out this Suburban and it did not fit my needs, but someone 
else might like it. I have no connection to the seller and no interest 
in this vehicle. This is purely a "public service announcement" ...

You can see the vehicle on Roxboro Road, just north of Northern High, in 
a driveway on the left (going North).

1989 GMC Suburban 6.2 diesel in Durham for $3,000
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/car/384259321.html

Cheers,
Jurgen
-- 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen Henn
          2002 Jetta TDI
  40/50 MPG on biodiesel
http://words.yovo.info/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From dcwilson at mindspring.com  Wed Aug 22 21:02:18 2007
From: dcwilson at mindspring.com (Douglas C Wilson)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:02:18 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How a bout Fuso NPR Box truck
In-Reply-To: <473975.76235.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <473975.76235.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46CCDC9A.5030106@mindspring.com>

Phil,

We have a 2005 Fuso FG140 that we have been running on biodiesel since 
we got it new about a year ago. It has run fine for us but it is still 
pretty low mileage.

Since it had never really run on diesel, we did not do an early change 
out of the fuel filter and that was a mistake. It clogged at about 6000 
miles. We guess that it did sludge up a bit sitting on the lot for 
nearly two years before we bought it. No damage, the truck went into a 
special low power mode and we were able to limp home.

Best Regards,
Doug Wilson
> I am thinking of getting a Mitsubishi Fuso or Izuzu
> NPR for my business and running it on SVO or
> biodiesel.
>
> Does anyone have any experience related to using
> alternative fuels in these vehicles. At a later date I
> may try a Dodge Sprinter.
>
> Thanks for any info....
>
> Cheers,
> Phil
>
>
>   



From francismiller at comcast.net  Wed Aug 22 21:23:55 2007
From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis M. Miller)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:23:55 -0600
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How a bout Fuso NPR Box truck
In-Reply-To: <46CCDC9A.5030106@mindspring.com>
References: <473975.76235.qm@web50805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<46CCDC9A.5030106@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <46CCE1AB.4070504@comcast.net>

Gentlemen:
You have turned this into a frigging Craigslist used car lot. It has 
been a long time since any of the innovative comments that used to 
appear with regards to biodiesel have been posted. I suspect those 
people have been driven off. Fran Miller

Douglas C Wilson wrote:

>Phil,
>
>We have a 2005 Fuso FG140 that we have been running on biodiesel since 
>we got it new about a year ago. It has run fine for us but it is still 
>pretty low mileage.
>
>Since it had never really run on diesel, we did not do an early change 
>out of the fuel filter and that was a mistake. It clogged at about 6000 
>miles. We guess that it did sludge up a bit sitting on the lot for 
>nearly two years before we bought it. No damage, the truck went into a 
>special low power mode and we were able to limp home.
>
>Best Regards,
>Doug Wilson
>  
>
>>I am thinking of getting a Mitsubishi Fuso or Izuzu
>>NPR for my business and running it on SVO or
>>biodiesel.
>>
>>Does anyone have any experience related to using
>>alternative fuels in these vehicles. At a later date I
>>may try a Dodge Sprinter.
>>
>>Thanks for any info....
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Phil
>>
>>
>>  
>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>
>  
>


From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Wed Aug 22 23:20:21 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:20:21 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] LOCAL GROUP ANNOUNCES FREE FALL FILM
	SERIES ON SUSTAINABLE ENERGY
Message-ID: <84a57a420708222020q7024c940k8e255846f29c8ac9@mail.gmail.com>

PRESS RELEASE

LOCAL GROUP ANNOUNCES FREE FALL FILM SERIES ON SUSTAINABLE ENERGY

Chatham Alliance for Sustainable Energy (CASE) is sponsoring four free
feature-length documentary films dealing with different aspects of
sustainable energy to be shown at 7pm every final Thursday of each
month from August through November. The first film, "Who Killed the
Electric Car?" (2006, 93 min.) will be shown at the multi-purpose room
of the Central Carolina Community College at 7pm, Thursday, August 30.

The films are being shown by CASE as a community service at various
venues of Chatham County to both educate and stimulate discussion of
sustainable energy topics presented in the films. After the initial
public presentation in Chatham County, each film will be available for
free small group or private viewing upon request. Those who miss the
initial showing and would like to use the film as a resource for their
church, club, or small group program may contact Ed King at
919-933-4254 for more information. No admission will be charged to see
the films but volunteer contributions will be accepted for the
non-profit organization CASE at each showing.

The Chatham Alliance for Sustainable Energy is a grassroots movement
in Chatham County that began in the Fall of 2006 with a growing group
of volunteers who wanted to make Chatham County into a showcase of
sustainable development in North Carolina.

Meeting monthly, the group began to articulate its mission: "To build
a community vision incorporating renewable energy for a sustainable
Chatham future." The idea from the outset was that this vision was to
involve as broad a base of private and public institutions in Chatham
County as possible. Indeed, the CASE planning team is composed of
green contractors and architects, elected public officials, business
leaders, educators, farmers, church members, non-profit organization
leaders, artists, retirees, and stay-at-home parents-----all residents
of Chatham County.

Early community activities sponsored by CASE were large public
showings of Al Gore's documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth," and the
filmed-in-Chatham documentary, "Kilowatt Ours: A Plan to Re-Energize
America," by Jeff Barrie. As the community's interest in renewable
energy grew, Central Carolina Community College in Pittsboro added
courses on sustainable agriculture and biofuels, Piedmont Biofuels,
Inc., was opened, local farmers markets grew, and Chatham Marketplace
became Chatham's first retail food co-op. More and more green
construction began to dot Chatham's horizon and public officials began
to talk about a green code for future construction of public schools
and other public buildings. In December 2006 CASE began a long-term
process to plan a major Chatham-wide event for the Spring of 2008 that
would bring together all partners, private and public, that were
building the same sustainable future for Chatham.

This series of "CASE movie nights" this Fall is CASE's effort to build
further momentum, public interest, and awareness of the global
dimensions of renewable energy/sustainable development as we plan for
the culminating Spring event in 2008.

Other films in the series will be:

"Who Killed the Electric Car?" (93 min.), Aug. 30, 7pm, CCCC multi-purpose room.

"Power of Community: Cuba and Peak Oil" (53 min.), Sept. 27, 7pm, Location TBA.

"Future of Food" (88 min.), Oct. 25, 7pm, Location TBA (in Siler City).

"Trinkets & Beads" (90 min.), Nov. 29, 7pm, Location TBA.

Copies of "Kilowatt Ours" and "An Inconvenient Truth" can be scheduled
at any time by contacting Ed King at 933-4254.

(Volunteer contributions to CASE for use of films is welcomed but no
admission is to be charged.)


-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Thu Aug 23 10:55:07 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:55:07 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] great way to spend a day in the mountains
Message-ID: <84a57a420708230755h620c825cx45f9ac6379f65528@mail.gmail.com>

Hello friends!

I'd like to let folks know about the Southern Environment and Energy
Expo happening this weekend near Asheville, NC.  This outstanding
event is a great way to spend a day in the mountains, learning and
meeting good people.

http://www.seeexpo.com

There are dozens of interesting presentations, workshops, and panels
planned, including four on biofuels!  Read more about them here:
http://www.seeexpo.com/schedule/descriptions.htm

This is a great event, and my third time going.  Wish I'd known about
it sooner!

Cheers!
John
-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

P.S.
At I'll be giving a Biofuels Feedstocks Update on Sat at 4:30 & Sun at
3:30.  Hope to see you there!

From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Thu Aug 23 10:58:03 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:58:03 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Post Script: Carpooling to SEE Expo from
	the piedmont?
Message-ID: <84a57a420708230758n4657e42dy15cbe0920019850d@mail.gmail.com>

I should have added this note about carpooling:  Anyone planning on
heading up Friday and returning Sunday, feel free to contact me about
carpooling.  I live in Chatham County, smack in the geographic center
of NC.

-- 
John Bonitz
Silk Hope, NC
919-360-2492
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com  Thu Aug 23 12:24:31 2007
From: Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com (Long, Patrick)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:24:31 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FW: 280HP Biodiesel Mustang
Message-ID: <AFCD5647CC8DC04B85C6F79A730D10010E6A2B@susmnrex003.na.colfaxcorporation.net>

The following is a link to Lurgi, a German company I've been doing some
subcontracting work for. Apparently they have built and plan to race a
modified Mustang. Note that the "skin" of the car is made from a
vegetable derived plastic.

http://www.lurgi.com/website/index.php?L=1

Patrick




From wooster at coastalnet.com  Thu Aug 23 21:57:34 2007
From: wooster at coastalnet.com (BENJAMIN F BARNES)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:57:34 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3/27/test
Message-ID: <410-22007852415734453@coastalnet.com>

I have made a couple of batches of biodiesel and have run the 3/27 test and
got some oil settling. Is there anything that can be done to improve the
quality of the oil?  Does it really make a difference for  a homebrewer,
especially in the summertime?

Thanks



BENJAMIN F BARNES
wooster at coastalnet.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink



From biodiesel at yovo.info  Thu Aug 23 22:25:11 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:25:11 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3/27/test
In-Reply-To: <410-22007852415734453@coastalnet.com>
References: <410-22007852415734453@coastalnet.com>
Message-ID: <46CE4187.4080301@yovo.info>

Benjamin,
what's your veggie quality? High/low titration? wet or dry? yucky or 
yummy? What's your reaction temperature? If you have trouble with 
incomplete reactions, oil quality and reaction temp. are important.

I understand the 3/27 test has to done at 68 F or it'll produce false 
results. Finally, the effects of triglycerides in your biodiesel on your 
engine depend on how picky your engine is. In an '81 300D I wouldn't 
worry about it. In a newer, high-injection-pressure engine it might be a 
problem.

Cheers,
Jurgen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             J?rgen Henn
          2002 Jetta TDI
  40/50 MPG on biodiesel
http://words.yovo.info/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BENJAMIN F BARNES wrote:
> I have made a couple of batches of biodiesel and have run the 3/27 test and
> got some oil settling. Is there anything that can be done to improve the
> quality of the oil?  Does it really make a difference for  a homebrewer,
> especially in the summertime?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> BENJAMIN F BARNES
> wooster at coastalnet.com
> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From mweaver at misteam.net  Fri Aug 24 10:39:18 2007
From: mweaver at misteam.net (mweaver at misteam.net)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:39:18 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 3/27/test
In-Reply-To: <410-22007852415734453@coastalnet.com>
References: <410-22007852415734453@coastalnet.com>
Message-ID: <20070824093918.pcpqf1hnfo4400wo@www.misteam.net>

Sounds more like you need a better reaction - what temp. are you  
blending at and how long do you mix it?

Being lazy, I let my feedstock WVO settle weeks if not longer then  
draw it off the top.  If the leftover isn't too nasty I pour it into  
another batch and settle that.  I never get to the bottom layer which  
is where the crud and water settles.

I have a VW Tdi and added a second cheap clear fuel filter in front of  
the real expensive one - it catches pretty much anything that might  
slip through but I find I don't have to change it often.

Quoting BENJAMIN F BARNES <wooster at coastalnet.com>:

> I have made a couple of batches of biodiesel and have run the 3/27 test and
> got some oil settling. Is there anything that can be done to improve the
> quality of the oil?  Does it really make a difference for  a homebrewer,
> especially in the summertime?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> BENJAMIN F BARNES
> wooster at coastalnet.com
> Why Wait? Move to EarthLink
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>




From tavanas at gmail.com  Sun Aug 26 15:21:28 2007
From: tavanas at gmail.com (t avanas)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 15:21:28 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
Message-ID: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>

folks,

a friend of mine is looking to use b100 in his 2002 f250 while it is still 
under warranty. does anyone know if his warranty will be impacted by using 
b100?
thanks

-saeed
one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC 


From panthercat at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 10:12:16 2007
From: panthercat at gmail.com (panthercat at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:12:16 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
In-Reply-To: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
References: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <4b6e46c90708270712x60f86230w67d6bd61798a2dae@mail.gmail.com>

I know VW only warraties up to B5.  Regardless of this outcome, just
tell him to flush his tank with a full tank of dino diesel before ever
visiting the dealership.

-Carlos

On 8/26/07, t avanas <tavanas at gmail.com> wrote:
> folks,
>
> a friend of mine is looking to use b100 in his 2002 f250 while it is still
> under warranty. does anyone know if his warranty will be impacted by using
> b100?
> thanks
>
> -saeed
> one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
> is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From tavanas at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 10:38:34 2007
From: tavanas at gmail.com (t avanas)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:38:34 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
References: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
	<4b6e46c90708270712x60f86230w67d6bd61798a2dae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <017b01c7e8b7$f324c180$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>

good idea,
does that really work? are there ways to determine what the engine has been 
burning?

-saeed
one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <panthercat at gmail.com>
To: "t avanas" <tavanas at gmail.com>
Cc: "biofuels_interest_group" <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees


>I know VW only warraties up to B5.  Regardless of this outcome, just
> tell him to flush his tank with a full tank of dino diesel before ever
> visiting the dealership.
>
> -Carlos
>
> On 8/26/07, t avanas <tavanas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> folks,
>>
>> a friend of mine is looking to use b100 in his 2002 f250 while it is 
>> still
>> under warranty. does anyone know if his warranty will be impacted by 
>> using
>> b100?
>> thanks
>>
>> -saeed
>> one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
>> is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>> 


From kcfoxie at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 10:46:29 2007
From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:46:29 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
In-Reply-To: <017b01c7e8b7$f324c180$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
References: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
	<4b6e46c90708270712x60f86230w67d6bd61798a2dae@mail.gmail.com>
	<017b01c7e8b7$f324c180$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <1bb86e040708270746g78a8e702x4ae94a74c2ac7db2@mail.gmail.com>

They can do a fuel sample test, usually taken from the tank. It's like
a drug test for cars.

I don't know the cost, but I'd bet it's not cheap and likely isn't
something they'd do if you take the precautions of running a full D2
tank before taking it to the shop.

My car is brand new, and having been on a mostly veggie diet from day
one.. when you open my fuel cap, it smells like B100.... even with a
full D2 tank.

On 8/27/07, t avanas <tavanas at gmail.com> wrote:
> good idea,
> does that really work? are there ways to determine what the engine has been
> burning?
>
> -saeed
> one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
> is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <panthercat at gmail.com>
> To: "t avanas" <tavanas at gmail.com>
> Cc: "biofuels_interest_group" <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
>
>
> >I know VW only warraties up to B5.  Regardless of this outcome, just
> > tell him to flush his tank with a full tank of dino diesel before ever
> > visiting the dealership.
> >
> > -Carlos
> >
> > On 8/26/07, t avanas <tavanas at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> folks,
> >>
> >> a friend of mine is looking to use b100 in his 2002 f250 while it is
> >> still
> >> under warranty. does anyone know if his warranty will be impacted by
> >> using
> >> b100?
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> -saeed
> >> one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
> >> is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com  Mon Aug 27 11:07:10 2007
From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:07:10 -0500
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Washington DC area biodiesel homebrew
	classes
Message-ID: <46D2E89E.9020008@localb100.com>

This is a bit far North for most of you but I know there are some
Virginia/DC folks on this list for whom this class might be accessible:


Biodiesel Homebrew Classes:
Chambersburg PA Sept 8-9
Carlisle PA Sept 13-14

System Tricks and Reactor Mechanics class:
Brookeville MD Sept 29-30
(preceded by an optional beginner class taught by Frankie Abralind and
Lindsay Madera on Sept 28)
Biodiesel barbeque and campfire on Sept 29th at the System Tricks
location, open to the public I believe

More info at wwwg.girlmark.com/tour


I have a few biodiesel classes coming up in Chambersburg PA and
Carlisle, PA, and near DC in Brookeville, MD. There is a rough syllabus
below with some of the information we're covering in the regular
Pennsylvania classes (they're the same, you wouldn't go to both
Chambersburg and Carlisle, but you could attend one PA class and the
Brookeville System Tricks class).

 I will also have a more advanced class in Brookeville MD the last
weekend of September, which will go over hands-on homebrew processing
using several pieces of live equipment, and focuses on 'system tricks'
to make your biodiesel process more efficient and safe.

 The PA classes focus on chemistry and quality control, and take place
in a 'lab' setting (actually, a barn setting, but we'll turn it into a
lab). We cover all the concepts needed to make and test your biodiesel,
and discuss several processes used by homebrewers.

There will be a homebrew system at both places, though- even though we
probably won't actually operate it in the PA classes. The material
presented in the Brookeville class and the Pennsylvania class(es)
doesn't overlap.

Both classes include an equipment building session and you can take a
processor home if you buy a kit from b100supply.com (not enough time to
do it with hardware store parts). B100supply gives us a discount for kit
orders- register first, then contact them.

There is more info on my website about all of these: www.girlmark.com/tour


sample syllabus for the Pennsylvania classes:

Saturday:
10-noon- lecture: general biofuels introduction, SVO conversions and
diesel blending (ie DSE, etc) discussions, cold weather issues,
emissions, discussion of early biofuels research that has gotten us
where we are today with biodiesel, explanation of biodiesel chemistry
and the basic process

noon-12:30 demonstration of the basic process

12:30-1:15 lunch

1:15-4 : students practice titration and make 1-liter batches, and we'll
discuss the full-size processor I'm bringing on the trailer outside and
how it works.

During the basic practice you'll practice oil water content testing,
blank titration, titration with a burette as well as cheaper equipment,
phenol red and turmeric titrations, really nasty oil as well as normal
oil, 5% glycerine remix prewash and two-stage process, along with
intentionally making mistakes for Sunday's class.

If we get through the basic 1-liter batches quickly enough, I"ll start
the next day's topics and demonstrations on Saturday afternoon.

Sunday:
10-12:30 lecture and demo: washing, biodiesel equipment, quality control
and quality testing discussion and demonstration, and a more detailed
discussion of quality problems that can affect vehicles. Discussion of
water neutralization and introduction to testing for soap.

12:30-1:15 lunch

1:15-2:15 -students do 'open lab' practice- you can perform quality
tests, wash your test batches from the day before, make more test
batches with different oil and different variables if you wish, do
ethanol-based biodiesel, attempt to fix some of the 'mistakes' we'll
intentionally make (ie emulsion and 'glop'), and more . You can also
start on your processor if you wish to instead. Intermittent lecturing
will take place during the lab, on topics such as ethanol-based
biodiesel and alternative lab techniques

2:15-4 plumbing/techniques demo and processor building (and continuation
of open lab, with help available for either lab or processor build- you
can filter back and forth between activities).

**************************************************

Below is a System Tricks class syllabus from my July class, the
Brookeville class will be similar:


Start a batch of fuel in Appleseed homebrew processor.
Discuss safe heating, tank fires, use of hydronic heating methods, and
heat exchangers. Demonstrate heat exchanger-based Appleseed.
Discuss some electrical safety interconnects proposed for heating
element control in ?regular? electric heaters.
Discuss tricks for measuring lye safely
Discuss tricks for measuring methanol safely
Discuss pumps for pumping methanol safely
Demonstrate air-powered pumps and discuss air compressor requirements
and electrical consumption if using air pumps for reactor mixing.
Discuss materials compatibility with various fuel processes and
chemicals used, and discuss where inappropriate plastics can still be
used with fewer consequences.
Discuss sight tubes and sight glass sources, ways of using them, ways of
installing them, what to look for in industrial parts catalogs
Demonstrate use of powered methanol/lye mixers that are not just passive
carboy method. Discuss pros and cons of both types of systems.
Discuss methanol vapor release to atmosphere.
Discuss fire safety issues.

drain a batch of glycerine in another Appleseed and discuss how to avoid
methanol vapor exposure during this process
discuss/demonstrate how to separate glycerine from biodiesel to minimize
emulsions. Most beginner mistakes having to do with emulsion are
actually a separation issue where the person inadvertently contaminates
their wash tank with extra soap because they haven?t separated the
glycerine from the biodiesel completely. There are some tests to ensure
this is actually done.
Discuss standpipe separating tanks, and demonstrate several ways of
designing them.
Discuss ways to minimize contamination with unwanted material.
Discuss various kinds of quick-connects and other ways to deal with the
messes caused by hoses. Most spills and other hazards are probably due
to homebrewers relying on hose rather than pipe.
Demonstrate the use of hard plumbing and ways of managing multiple valves
Demonstrate different methods of labeling the process and the steps, and
demonstrate one system using a ?protocol checklist? to minimize
confusion when operating multiple valves.

Transfer finished fuel from processor trailer to wash tanks and discuss
washing equipment
Demonstrate several types of washing nozzles and important considerations
Discuss closed versus open wash tanks
Discuss venting and air displacement
Demonstrate use of non-siphoning overflow mistwash tank plumbing
Demonstrate use of sump pump to move water to a drain
Demonstrate soap test titration
Discuss emulsions (I will make one for us to play with)
Break emulsion with various ways
Discuss wash tank heating methods
Discuss water disposal and ways of separating oils and water and what
happens when it is done with various methods
Discuss/demonstrate water neutralizing

Drain wash water from first wash and discuss ?how you know when you?re
finished with washing?
Go into more detail on emulsions and water retention
Demonstrate separation of water and biodiesel using various kinds of tanks
Discuss ?white stuff? that isn?t emulsion
Discuss materials compatibility and water hardness issues with regards
to washing
Discuss three different drying methods for getting water out of washed
biodiesel
Discuss tests for dryness of finished biodiesel

Test some finished biodiesel for quality in various ways

When the batch that we?re making is finished processing, we can perform
an 80%/20% two-stage base-base process and demonstrate various equipment
methods required to make it easier
We will follow it with a 5% water prewash for minimizing soap in wash.
There are many ways of handling this complex process (80/20 followed by
5%) and we?ll demonstrate and discuss several possible solutions to the
unwanted complexity

We will burn some glycerine in a homemade glycerine burner and
demonstrate ways of moving the heat safely to heat a batch of oil for
another batch of biodiesel.

I?ll briefly discuss filtration though this isn?t terribly complex
We?ll discuss different hosing material and tricks for
handling/wrangling lots of hose

 We'll discuss a ?cubee handling? system for minimizing the hassle
involved in processing oil that comes in 5 gallon cubes
We?ll demonstrate straining of oil
We?ll discuss, possibly only theoretically as it cant be shown in a
one-day class, the ?heat and let settle? method of dewatering wet oil
We?ll discuss fire safety if you choose to dewater oil using boiling
temperatures.









To register, please see www.girlmark.com/tour














From tobin at tjcog.org  Mon Aug 27 11:25:28 2007
From: tobin at tjcog.org (Tobin L. Freid)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:25:28 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
References: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <005601c7e8be$8324b640$53e46f47@BlueHeel>

Technically it is illegal for them to void your warranty based on what fuel 
you use.  They warranty their own parts and workmanship, not fuel.  The 
burden of proof would be on them to prove that the biodiesel caused whatever 
harm you are claiming under the warranty.  This is based on the Magnuson 
Moss Warranty Act.  For more info see the "warranty" section at 
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/standards_and_warranties.shtm

Tobin L. Freid
Triangle Clean Cities Coalition
(919) 558-9400

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "t avanas" <tavanas at gmail.com>
To: "biofuels_interest_group" <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:21 PM
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees


> folks,
>
> a friend of mine is looking to use b100 in his 2002 f250 while it is still
> under warranty. does anyone know if his warranty will be impacted by using
> b100?
> thanks
>
> -saeed
> one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
> is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
> 



From mapmantx at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 11:45:26 2007
From: mapmantx at yahoo.com (John Hollingsworth)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19110.1188227363.25899.biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net>
Message-ID: <283432.65955.qm@web55310.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

In the For What It's Worth department,
 
I have a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD that has been running
on B100 for the last 22K miles.  I have a
biofuels.coop sticker on the back that says "this
vehicle runs on renewable fuel".
 
I have only had the Jeep serviced at dealerships and
have taken it in for service with a belly full of B100
more than once.  Some of these services were engine
related.  I have never even been asked about the fuel,
let alone challenged on its use.
 
I have taken the Jeep both to David O'Neal on Capital
and Westgate on US70.
 
John Hollingsworth
 
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 15:21:28 -0400
From: "t avanas" 
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees

folks,

a friend of mine is looking to use b100 in his 2002
f250 while it is still 
under warranty. does anyone know if his warranty will
be impacted by using 
b100?

John Hollingsworth
mapmantx at yahoo.com


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

From biodiesel at yovo.info  Mon Aug 27 12:32:41 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:32:41 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
In-Reply-To: <005601c7e8be$8324b640$53e46f47@BlueHeel>
References: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
	<005601c7e8be$8324b640$53e46f47@BlueHeel>
Message-ID: <46D2FCA9.4090602@yovo.info>

Thanks, Tobin! That is a very important point ...

The flip side of the warranty issue is the fact that the fuel 
manufacturers guarantee their product(s). So if you can show that the 
damage to your vehicle was caused by the fuel you used, you can go to 
the fuel manufacturer with the repair bill (at least you can try to).

Piedmont Biofuels states it this way:
"Every drop of biodiesel we sell is fully warranted, EPA-registered 
biodiesel that meets the national ASTM quality specification (D-6751).
We stand behind our product and will cover any fuel quality related 
problems should they occur." (http://biofuels.coop/services/)

Three cheers for the good juice!
J?rgen



Tobin L. Freid wrote:
> Technically it is illegal for them to void your warranty based on what fuel 
> you use.  They warranty their own parts and workmanship, not fuel.  The 
> burden of proof would be on them to prove that the biodiesel caused whatever 
> harm you are claiming under the warranty.  This is based on the Magnuson 
> Moss Warranty Act.  For more info see the "warranty" section at 
> http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/standards_and_warranties.shtm
> 
> Tobin L. Freid
> Triangle Clean Cities Coalition
> (919) 558-9400
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "t avanas" <tavanas at gmail.com>
> To: "biofuels_interest_group" <biofuels_interest_group at lists.emji.net>
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:21 PM
> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
> 
> 
>> folks,
>>
>> a friend of mine is looking to use b100 in his 2002 f250 while it is still
>> under warranty. does anyone know if his warranty will be impacted by using
>> b100?
>> thanks
>>
>> -saeed
>> one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
>> is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato 427-347 BC
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
>> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From one at swimmindustries.com  Mon Aug 27 13:36:46 2007
From: one at swimmindustries.com (Mike Swimm)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:36:46 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
In-Reply-To: <46D2FCA9.4090602@yovo.info>
References: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>
	<005601c7e8be$8324b640$53e46f47@BlueHeel>
	<46D2FCA9.4090602@yovo.info>
Message-ID: <BA60937C-B4C7-47AD-B6E7-E1320D2C2BE2@swimmindustries.com>

So this means that Piedmont Biofuels would have paid to replace my  
injector pump when the seals fell apart earlier this year?
-Mike


> Thanks, Tobin! That is a very important point ...
>
> The flip side of the warranty issue is the fact that the fuel
> manufacturers guarantee their product(s). So if you can show that the
> damage to your vehicle was caused by the fuel you used, you can go to
> the fuel manufacturer with the repair bill (at least you can try to).
>
> Piedmont Biofuels states it this way:
> "Every drop of biodiesel we sell is fully warranted, EPA-registered
> biodiesel that meets the national ASTM quality specification (D-6751).
> We stand behind our product and will cover any fuel quality related
> problems should they occur." (http://biofuels.coop/services/)
>
> Three cheers for the good juice!
> J?rgen
>


From biodiesel at yovo.info  Mon Aug 27 13:44:03 2007
From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:44:03 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] b100 and warrantees
In-Reply-To: <BA60937C-B4C7-47AD-B6E7-E1320D2C2BE2@swimmindustries.com>
References: <00f201c7e816$4edc8d70$120d530a@amer.cisco.com>	<005601c7e8be$8324b640$53e46f47@BlueHeel>	<46D2FCA9.4090602@yovo.info>
	<BA60937C-B4C7-47AD-B6E7-E1320D2C2BE2@swimmindustries.com>
Message-ID: <46D30D63.1080807@yovo.info>

Mike - I suspect you'd have to show that the damage was caused by fuel 
quality problems ...

Jurgen


Mike Swimm wrote:
> So this means that Piedmont Biofuels would have paid to replace my  
> injector pump when the seals fell apart earlier this year?
> -Mike
> 
> 

From panthercat at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 15:00:41 2007
From: panthercat at gmail.com (panthercat at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:00:41 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd:  b100 and warrantees
In-Reply-To: <4b6e46c90708271159k4e044223te6cbe1d6352e09c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070827.132707.29040.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
	<4b6e46c90708271159k4e044223te6cbe1d6352e09c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b6e46c90708271200p112b1754t3c297a977755828@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for your knowledge Rich!

I would say that my advice to fill with regular dinodiesel before
visiting the dealership was more a nonconfrontational purpose than
misleading purpose.

Ever since a good gentlemen on this list posted a rather large
informed research email about the viscostiy concerns with B100's and
PD-TDI's, I only use B20 in my 2004 Jetta *PD* TDI.  If i had to buy
the car over again I would have bought the pre-PD Jetta; that was my
ignorance even after researching TDI's.  So I only run *retail* B20
because I'm worried about the PD injector's and B100 (Feel free to
edumacate me more ppl).

That said, Leith VW interoggated me one visit when i had something i
repaired under warranty.  It was not a fuel related repair, and at
this point i was not using B20 hardly any, but my BIODIESEL sticker I
purchased before I even got my TDI was showing proudly on my car.

They left me very uncomfortable after asking questions regarding my
biodiesel usage, and I just repeated over and over that I blend down
to B5, the legal answer.

So now I flush my tank, and take off my sticker on every visit.  My
retail B20 is good and not damaging my car, and I just don't want to
get hassled about it by VW.  I drive all the time to Atlanta and stop
at the great Sphinx station at the Greenville,SC airport that has a
ton of B20 pumps.

P.S. I love Gmail, this ad link is on the right as I type this:
http://www.dieselpage.com/trivia1.htm

-Carlos

From rlanou at buildsense.com  Mon Aug 27 15:10:57 2007
From: rlanou at buildsense.com (Randall Lanou)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:10:57 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sprinter
Message-ID: <502FAF91-B5E7-40B8-B3F2-22F45B0D92D0@buildsense.com>

We have been running B99 in our Dodge Sprinter (and our VW Jetta,  
Kubota TLB48, Ford F250, and Dodge 2500) for more than 100,000  
combined miles.  The Sprinter lost power at about 30K and we took it  
to a dealer -- it really just needed the fuel filter replaced.   
However, the tech that worked on the van cautioned us about two  
things: that the fuel lines were disintegrating (I thought that all  
fuel lines were good for biodiesel after the mid nineties?) and that  
the injectors may get clogged if we continue to run the fuel.  While  
I obviously paid for the fuel pump and service, there were no threats  
from the dealer about voided warranties, just  the recommendation to  
stop using the fuel.  Does anyone know what type of fuel lines are  
used in the 2005 Sprinters?  Does the injector clogging warning have  
any merit?

Thanks.


From kcfoxie at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 15:32:53 2007
From: kcfoxie at gmail.com (Chris Browder)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:32:53 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sprinter
In-Reply-To: <502FAF91-B5E7-40B8-B3F2-22F45B0D92D0@buildsense.com>
References: <502FAF91-B5E7-40B8-B3F2-22F45B0D92D0@buildsense.com>
Message-ID: <1bb86e040708271232l6d6231bfo34662d52570c56e0@mail.gmail.com>

I've seen a "study" by Bosch that shows in 1,000 hours (approc 60k
miles) B100 puts more deposits on the injector than Diesel #2 does. I
don't buy it, backed by the scientists I work with here at the NIH.
Not only have we now found out that par the math Ethal-Ester Biodiesel
has 2% more BTU than Diesel #2 (note that Piedmont uses the
lesser-kapow Methanol), but also that the Ester itself is not
distinguishable to the engine in combustion.

In other words, I feel its entirely safe. There are too many vehicles
with one and two owner histories -- PD TDI VWs, Sprinters, etc -- that
contradict the catastrophic events that will happen par the
Dealership.

All lines post-96 should be OK, but speaking with Matt at Piedmont, he
mentioned their intern bought a late 80s Mercedes diesel and has been
running B100 for some time with it (6+ months if I remember) and he
hasn't had a line fall to pieces yet.

I've been scammed too many times with gasoline cars by dealerships and
repair shops to really trust them anymore. The handful of mechanics I
do have faith in, don't have an issue with running Ethanol or
biodiesel in an engine. To quote one (who Jurgen Henn has used many
times in the past) "A diesel can burn anything, I've used Automatic
tramsission fluid to refill the fuel filter housing before and the
engine started right up on it."

It should be noted that some ATFs are actually just as combustable at
1900F as Diesel fuel.

So... I feel it's safe. But I have only 24,000 miles on B100 in a 2006
Jetta Special Edition TDI-PD.

-Chris

On 8/27/07, Randall Lanou <rlanou at buildsense.com> wrote:
> We have been running B99 in our Dodge Sprinter (and our VW Jetta,
> Kubota TLB48, Ford F250, and Dodge 2500) for more than 100,000
> combined miles.  The Sprinter lost power at about 30K and we took it
> to a dealer -- it really just needed the fuel filter replaced.
> However, the tech that worked on the van cautioned us about two
> things: that the fuel lines were disintegrating (I thought that all
> fuel lines were good for biodiesel after the mid nineties?) and that
> the injectors may get clogged if we continue to run the fuel.  While
> I obviously paid for the fuel pump and service, there were no threats
> from the dealer about voided warranties, just  the recommendation to
> stop using the fuel.  Does anyone know what type of fuel lines are
> used in the 2005 Sprinters?  Does the injector clogging warning have
> any merit?
>
> Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
> Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group
>

From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com  Mon Aug 27 15:33:11 2007
From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:33:11 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sprinter
In-Reply-To: <502FAF91-B5E7-40B8-B3F2-22F45B0D92D0@buildsense.com>
Message-ID: <8F00D186F7D47B4BAB1E0C9C11D134BC01B4032C@NT000836.oak.zone1.progress-energy.com>

I have been running B100 ( and every possible mixture ) in my 1996 VW
Passat for over 2 years now, and have not experienced
clogged fuel injectors from using biodiesel. I would think that it
actually would clean any residue or anything on your fuel lines, because
of its solvent properties. It will eventually eat at your fuel lines, so
replacing them with Viton is a good idea. I do not know anything about
the Sprinters, but was told that 2004 Tdi's were the best, if you were
to get a Tdi.
I also spoke to someone at Leith VW once about using biodiesel, and the
dealer spoke against using it. I'd say, just don't mention it, and it
won't be an issue. VW might as well get on the biodiesel band-wagon,
because it's use is only going to increase.

Cheryl


-----Original Message-----
From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net
[mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces at lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of
Randall Lanou
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:11 PM
To: Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sprinter


We have been running B99 in our Dodge Sprinter (and our VW Jetta,  
Kubota TLB48, Ford F250, and Dodge 2500) for more than 100,000  
combined miles.  The Sprinter lost power at about 30K and we took it  
to a dealer -- it really just needed the fuel filter replaced.   
However, the tech that worked on the van cautioned us about two  
things: that the fuel lines were disintegrating (I thought that all  
fuel lines were good for biodiesel after the mid nineties?) and that  
the injectors may get clogged if we continue to run the fuel.  While  
I obviously paid for the fuel pump and service, there were no threats  
from the dealer about voided warranties, just  the recommendation to  
stop using the fuel.  Does anyone know what type of fuel lines are  
used in the 2005 Sprinters?  Does the injector clogging warning have  
any merit?

Thanks.

_______________________________________________
Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list
Biofuels_Interest_Group at lists.emji.net
http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group

From john.bonitz at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 17:37:09 2007
From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:37:09 -0400
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Free film this Thursday evening, 7pm!
Message-ID: <84a57a420708271437x77777bfetff1a41c52e2fa21b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Neighbors!

The Chatham Alliance for Sustainable Energy (CASE) is sponsoring a
free film this Thursday evening.   At 7pm, we will screen "Who Killed
the Electric Car?" (2006, 93 min.), in the multi-purpose room of the
Central Carolina Community College at 7pm, Thursday, August 30.

That's the largest room in the second building, directly across the
hall from Continuing Education.

Who Killed the Electric Car is a 2006 documentary film that explores
the birth, limited commercialization, and subsequent death of the
battery electric vehicle in the United States, specifically the
General Motors EV1 of the 1990s. The film explores the roles of
automobile manufacturers, the oil industry, the US government,
batteries, hydrogen vehicles, and consumers in limiting the
development and adoption of this technology.

The film explores some of the reasons that the auto and oil industries
worked to kill off the electric car.  The film explains that the oil
companies were afraid of losing out on trillions in potential profit
from their transportation fuel monopoly over the coming decades, while
the auto companies were afraid of losses over the next six months of
EV production.

Come see the film!

John Bonitz

http://www.caseinchatham.org/

From theemperoroficecream at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 12:58:32 2007
From: theemperoroficecream at yahoo.com (kimberly bullock)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:58:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: biodiesel in 2005 Dodge Sprinter
Message-ID: <738859.28543.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> 
> We have a 2005 Dodge Sprinter running on b100 and we haven't
> had trouble with fuel line disintegration, but twice last
> winter we had to take it to the shop because the Auxiliary
> Heater failed. Our mechanic (at Hendrick Dodge over in
> Raleigh) blamed it on the biodiesel "burning hotter," which
> seemed like typical biodiesel-blaming, but we ran the Sprinter
> on petrodiesel for a few months to see whether it made a
> difference. We haven't had problems since then, and we slowly
> reintroduced biodiesel and then totally reverted after a
> while, but this was also at the end of winter, so I don't know
> how much the cold has to do with it. I will am waiting to see
> what happens this winter.
> 
> kim         



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

From ttsinc624 at juno.com  Fri Aug 31 22:51:16 2007
From: ttsinc624 at juno.com (Mr. Turner)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 02:51:16 GMT
Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bill was signed!!
Message-ID: <20070831.225116.3213.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com>

Wooo Hoooo! the governor signed the bill S1272

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2007/Bills/Senate/HTML/S1272v6.html
_____________________________________________________________
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