From hogarth at gmail.com Mon May 1 10:55:17 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Mon May 1 08:53:22 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biofuels and veggie and Bears - Oh, my! Message-ID: <3889aa560605010655i15fd0d9em71bc3f7d5d19cbf1@mail.gmail.com> A friend's brother (in Connecticut) is thinking about converting his car to run on fryer oil (using a kit, it sounds like), has sources of used oil lined up, a place to store it, filtering plans, etc. But someone has spooked him with a story about bears invading his garage to get at the stored oil. My friend (Bev) writes: "BUT he has heard stories of wild animals (bears in general) getting into storage areas and really raising havoc. Have you or your people - - I cannot tell you how much I enjoyed typing that - - had any experience with or heard any stories regarding this problem? He has a two-story garage that he is rather fond of and would prefer that black bears not rearrange his building." If you hit 'reply all', your reply will go to Bev as well as to the list; or I am happy to relay any answers/suggestions/etc. Thanks! -- Susan Hogarth | colliething.com NC Ballot Access Coalition http://www.ncballotaccess.org From tungate at email.unc.edu Mon May 1 11:34:51 2006 From: tungate at email.unc.edu (tungate@email.unc.edu) Date: Mon May 1 09:35:08 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] info on veg oil Message-ID: <20060501103451.jn6xmgcq6sssg08g@webmail7.isis.unc.edu> I recently bought a diesel and am considering converting it to run on straight oil. Are there cons (related to engine wear) to using this vs. biodiesel? thanks for your help. kim From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon May 1 20:40:10 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon May 1 18:38:27 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] EBB Says Biodiesel Production Growth Hit Record High in 2005 Message-ID: <6FC58C80-5FDB-4B03-9998-1EDF6A93852E@blast.com> The European Biodiesel Board (EBB) recently announced that official figures confirm that overall biodiesel production in the European Union's 25 member states increased from 1.9 million tons in 2004 to nearly 3.2 million tons last year, representing an unprecedented 65-percent yearly growth. "Although most biodiesel production can be attributed to EU-15 member states, the number of EU countries with a biodiesel industry has nearly doubled in 2005," noted EBB. "Today, 20 countries are producing biodiesel on an industrial scale, up from 11 countries that produced biodiesel last year." According to EBB, Germany was the leading biodiesel producer in 2005, with a production of 1.6 million tons, followed by France (492,000 tons) and Italy (396,000 tons), while such new EU member states as Poland (100,000 tons) and the Czech Republic (133,000 tons) have emerged as major producers. EBB estimates that capacities for biodiesel production will reach 6 million tons in 2006. Contact: EBB, website http://www.ebb-eu.org. From gilmc at bellsouth.net Tue May 2 11:38:54 2006 From: gilmc at bellsouth.net (Gil McNeill) Date: Tue May 2 09:35:19 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel Mechanics In-Reply-To: <4453782F.20006@yovo.info> Message-ID: <001301c66dfe$8820ce90$6101a8c0@LAPTOP> Hello, I was wondering who folks recommend in the area (Chatham) for working on their diesel vehicles... Thanks! Gil McNeill From forrest at truffula.net Tue May 2 09:07:59 2006 From: forrest at truffula.net (Forrest English) Date: Tue May 2 10:06:14 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] CNH Announces Full Support of B5 and Backs B20 References: <37D100E9-4CFC-4F77-B01D-3CBDC68D9A30@oda.state.or.us> Message-ID: > > CNH Announces Full Support of B5 and Backs B20 > > > Case New Holland (CNH) Global N.V. announced recently that its > leading agricultural and construction equipment brands fully > support use of B5 blends (5% biodiesel and 95% petroleum-based > diesel) in all engines they manufacture. In addition, use of 20% > blends (B20) is within consideration. > > The statement covers Case IH and New Holland agricultural equipment > and Case and New Holland construction equipment brands. > > CNH noted that B5 blends must meet the requirements of U.S. > standard ASTM D6751 on the base biodiesel stock, or European > standard EN14214. When using higher 20% blends, certain handling > and maintenance requirements come into play and customers are > advised to speak with their dealers on specific issues. > > CNH officials say they are committed to working with partners to > push toward higher-level biodiesel that will be a compatible fuel > source in future low-emissions compliant engines, and has initiated > aggressive field tests to evaluate the performance with 100% > biodiesel. > > More information about CNH and its Case and New Holland products > can be found online at www.cnh.com. > -- Forrest English From john.bonitz at gmail.com Tue May 2 21:36:00 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Tue May 2 19:34:03 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] re: info on veg oil In-Reply-To: <84a57a420605021735t3ef74082t1c84174929dbabe1@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a57a420605021735t3ef74082t1c84174929dbabe1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <84a57a420605021736q7e97d0cdw6e0de7e6d75fbf74@mail.gmail.com> Hey Kim! The short answer is that if the SVO or WVO conversion kit is installed properly and maintained, and the veg-oil is brought to proper temperature before injection, then nope, your engine will not have additional wear. Also, recall that most SVO or WVO systems are dual fuel: You'll still need some biodiesel or petro-diesel to start the engine and to purge the lines before turning off your motor at night. Others on this list with first hand experience can speak to the possiblity of injection pump wear (which is a function of the kit design and your vehicle). cheers! -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC I recently bought a diesel and am considering converting it to run on straight oil. Are there cons (related to engine wear) to using this vs. biodiesel? thanks for your help. kim ----------- -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu May 4 18:57:22 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu May 4 17:33:53 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: You are cordially invited- May 5, 2006 Ribbon Cutting! References: <462F52FF2513454CB123CF6D9F1278E7018A4F77@maconpo01.macon.ga.us> Message-ID: <40895145-011D-41DF-8AB2-181788AFE614@blast.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Stephens, Charise" > Date: May 4, 2006 7:37:39 AM EDT > To: "Stephens, Charise" > Cc: , > Subject: You are cordially invited- May 5, 2006 Ribbon Cutting! > > You are cordially invited to help celebrate a milestone in Middle > Georgia! > > Day: Friday > > Date: May 5, 2006 > > Time: 10:00 AM > > Location: Fillers #25 corner of Hwy 41/ Gunn Road - Davis Oil > Company. For directions please feel free to call (478) 987-2443. > > Guest: Senator Ross Tolleson- Senate Natural Resources and > Environment Chairman > The Natural Resources Committee addresses issues > such as energy resources and development, including > regulation, conservation, strategic reserves > and standards; public lands and their renewable resources; surface > mining, coal, oil, and gas, other mineral leasing; and > water resources. > > Re: Ribbon cutting for the first public retail B20 > station in the region. Over 1.4 million gallons used in the region > through fleets now the community has the opportunity > to buy this cleaner burning fuel. Light refreshments will be served. > > If you have any questions, please call me. > Charise Stephens > Executive Director > Middle Georgia Clean Cities Coalition > Mobile Source Coordinator > Middle Georgia Clean Air Coalition > 1122 Seventh Street > Macon, Georgia 31206 > (478) 751-9178 > (478) 751-9168 fax > From mambrose at fs.fed.us Mon May 1 10:50:33 2006 From: mambrose at fs.fed.us (Mark Ambrose) Date: Thu May 4 17:43:38 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "adopt a highway" program and bio feedstock production? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A - The biggest obstacle will probably be liability issues. Many states were initially very wary of Adopt a Highway programs because of concern that someone might get run down by a car. It would be wonderful to use those medians productively, but don't expect state DOT's to be enthusiastic about the idea. Also, until/unless farmland prices skyrocket because of the need to put lots of land into oil crop production, the added operational costs of farming those areas would probably make it unattractive economically. -- Mark "A Bodkin" To Sent by: BIG biofuels_interest sts.emji.net cc Subject 04/28/2006 04:52 [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "adopt a PM highway" program and bio feedstock production? I wonder, has anyone stumbled into information pertaining to the usage of Highway medians, exit ramps etc for the planting of feedstock that could be used for Bio? I think the "adopt a highway" program offers an excellent opportunity to utilize the hundreds of thousands of national roadway miles for feedstock production. It also occurs to me that it has been deemed "unsafe" to build homes under power lines, but those tens of thousands of acres might be used as well... In my research to realize the extent of the current subsidies to farmers for letting their equipment sit idle I have not turned up any data on possible programs... any help appreciated, Thanks ~A _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From fintouch at triad.rr.com Wed May 3 10:03:48 2006 From: fintouch at triad.rr.com (Beverly Wilcox) Date: Thu May 4 17:43:39 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biofuels and veggie and Bears - Oh, my! References: Message-ID: <4458AA34.29AC7310@triad.rr.com> All, Thanks so much for your information but most of all - - -thanks for the humor. My brother has been known at times to take life a bit too seriously so this was very helpful. I am pleased to report that he is continuing his plans in spite of the bear fear. Thanks again Bev From billbus at gte.net Fri May 5 09:47:56 2006 From: billbus at gte.net (Bill Bussey) Date: Fri May 5 07:45:49 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "adopt a highway" program and bio feedstock production? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <445B497C.4030801@gte.net> Hi Folks, When I read this thread, I fondly remember a group of speleologists from the then Soviet Union touring with a friend and me on the Mall in Washington DC. Seeing the acres of grass in the middle of a big, or elsewise Capital City, they noted that if they had this much grass and open space in Moscow, it would be used for productive purposes such as growing wheat, corn or whatever. Just goes to show how our priorities are indeed different than the rest of the world. And Mark is right, all DOT agencies will always say no to doing pretty much anything different than what they are already doing. They know more than you do! Only through constant persuasion and pestering will they relent to doing anything not invented in their respective agency. But this is a good idea which might be easier accepted in the midwest or west where they have experience in letting local agriculture cut the grass on medians and shoulders. Happy Trails, Bill B. Mark Ambrose wrote: > A - > > The biggest obstacle will probably be liability issues. Many states were > initially very wary of Adopt a Highway programs because of concern that > someone might get run down by a car. It would be wonderful to use those > medians productively, but don't expect state DOT's to be enthusiastic about > the idea. > > Also, until/unless farmland prices skyrocket because of the need to put > lots of land into oil crop production, the added operational costs of > farming those areas would probably make it unattractive economically. > > -- Mark > > > > > "A Bodkin" > om> To > Sent by: BIG > biofuels_interest _group-bounces@li .net> > sts.emji.net cc > > Subject > 04/28/2006 04:52 [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "adopt a > PM highway" program and bio feedstock > production? > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder, has anyone stumbled into information pertaining to the usage > of Highway medians, exit ramps etc for the planting of feedstock that > could be used for Bio? I think the "adopt a highway" program offers an > excellent opportunity to utilize the hundreds of thousands of national > roadway miles for feedstock production. It also occurs to me that it > has been deemed "unsafe" to build homes under power lines, but those > tens of thousands of acres might be used as well... > > > > In my research to realize the extent of the current subsidies to > farmers for letting their equipment sit idle I have not turned up any > data on possible programs... > > any help appreciated, > > Thanks > > ~A > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From hogarth at gmail.com Fri May 5 10:00:15 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Fri May 5 07:58:03 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "adopt a highway" program and bio feedstock production? In-Reply-To: <445B497C.4030801@gte.net> References: <445B497C.4030801@gte.net> Message-ID: <3889aa560605050600y34c7624bi878966b1924707fe@mail.gmail.com> On 5/5/06, Bill Bussey wrote: > Hi Folks, > > When I read this thread, I fondly remember a group of speleologists from > the then Soviet Union touring with a friend and me on the Mall in > Washington DC. Seeing the acres of grass in the middle of a big, or > elsewise Capital City, they noted that if they had this much grass and > open space in Moscow, it would be used for productive purposes such as > growing wheat, corn or whatever. Was that at the time when the USSR was importing huge quantities of wheat from the US? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E4DA1E38F932A25756C0A962948260 > Just goes to show how our priorities are indeed different than the rest > of the world. The Kremlin was hardly a model of government reserve when it comes to architechture. > And Mark is right, all DOT agencies will always say no to doing pretty > much anything different than what they are already doing. They know more > than you do! ... Just like the government of the USSR knew so much about agriculture and efficiency... so much they nearly starved their people before they were finally thrown out (to some degree). -- Susan Hogarth | colliething.com NC Ballot Access Coalition http://www.ncballotaccess.org From aibodkin at gmail.com Fri May 5 11:59:31 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Fri May 5 09:57:17 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Profiteering on Bio... Message-ID: Most of the people that I have met in the biodiesel/biofuels industry don't strike me as the type of folks who are looking to "capitalize" on industry growth?but for those who have confidence that it will grow into a profitable market? 3 stocks to ride ethanol's rise http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P150550.asp Posted 5/3/2006 "..Think about this next time you fill up your car with $3 gas: Everybody is talking about the need for alternative energy, whether it's ethanol from corn or switch grass, solar, wind, nuclear, coal to liquid, or bio-diesel. So why aren't there more alternative energy stocks for an investor to buy? If you're looking for a pure play on an alternative energy -- whether it's solar or ethanol -- then the pickings are pretty slim. Subtract the overpriced, the over-hyped and the illiquid stocks, and there doesn't seem to be much left?" Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) for instance with but a $100 monthly investment since May 2000 Total of $7,600 out of pocket would equal $20,962.80 today (+$13,362)?or 175.8% increase? >From my standpoint, the profit made in the industry might make a healthy donation to protect ANWR? :0) Thinking from all directions? ~A No Farmers, No Fuel... From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri May 5 16:53:29 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri May 5 14:52:38 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: MotorWeek, Cleaner Driving with E85 References: <6D29349473E22449865356FEE7CE184950C353@CCOGSBS1.ccogdom1.local> Message-ID: <0E938845-5E28-42B4-9703-7197D34C4B89@blast.com> Begin forwarded message: > > > F YI... > > > > > View this notice online if your email client does not display HTML > and graphics properly. > > > An upcoming episode of MotorWeek will feature "Cleaner Driving with > E85," a segment that includes interviews with Tim Gerlach, > coordinator of the Twin Cities Clean Cities Coalition (TC4), and > John P. Gaydash, General Motors' Marketing Director, Fleet and > Commercial Operations. > > > > Upcoming Clean Cities/MotorWeek > Segment: "Cleaner Driving with E85" > Episode#: 2535 > Airing date: May 5, 2006 > Channel: PBS, Speed, and Armed Forces Network > > "Cleaner Driving with E85" will air starting May 5, 2006, on PBS, > the Speed Channel, and the Armed Forces Network. It will run in > regular MotorWeek time slots nationwide throughout the week. Check > your local listings and cable/satellite programming guides for time > and channel information in your area. > > If you miss the show, you can order a videotape or transcript > through the MotorWeek website. The site also has show contact > information, station listings, past and future episode guides, and > more. > > Another MotorWeek episode featuring ethanol in race cars is > scheduled to air May 26. Stay tuned for more information. > > Happy watching! > > Wendy Dafoe > > > > > > > > From efcox at charter.net Fri May 5 20:08:51 2006 From: efcox at charter.net (Everett Cox) Date: Fri May 5 18:06:40 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] re: info on vege oil Message-ID: <000001c67098$e30fa0f0$7ef3b518@CoxNC3809976> Hi Kim and John, Wege oil is good. I have been running on MB on it since labor day 2005. Probably 1500 to 2000 miles on wvo. The setup is home brew and has been through several iterations. I am not finished yet. My website shows some of the 3 phases so far. I plan to tee in a vacuum gage before the injection pump to monitor the affect (effect?) of temperature on the stress on the IP. Like John was saying the higher the temperature the less viscous the wege oil and the less hard the IP has to work...I think. Once the vacuum gage is installed I will be able to tell how hard it pulls on diesel vs vege oil. I monitor temperature of the oil in the tank under the hood as well as the tank in the trunk. I have a float switch in the tank under the hood that lights an led inside the car when I need to pump oil from the main tank. I have experimented with many variations of electric heat for the oil on board. I did not cut into my cooling system. I put and inverter in the car to convert DC to AC and have used immersion heaters, light bulbs, have been experimenting with fish tank heaters and power resistors also. I am a tinkerer at heart. Anyway, Here is the link to my site: http://webpages.charter.net/svo-to-go If you click on the "turbodiesel" emblem you enter the "photoshoot". Special thanks to Johnny Fry also for inspiration in addition to the other folks mentioned on my website. Regards, Everett From perkinsfam at yahoo.com Fri May 5 18:55:57 2006 From: perkinsfam at yahoo.com (Brian Perkins) Date: Fri May 5 19:53:42 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] methanol & H2SO4 Message-ID: <20060506005557.26029.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> Hey y'all! (Noob here.) Can someone tell me about sources for methanol in G'boro? The only place I've found so far is National Welders' Supply. The only problem is that I'd have to buy a half ton. I don't have $800 spending cash. And I'm not sure that's a good deal even if I did. http://208.178.227.196/cgi-bin/nw/WService=nw/skudetl.html?sku=1862056 I'm also looking for a good source of sulfuric acid. Help? Thanks, Brian __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Fri May 5 19:24:02 2006 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Fri May 5 20:21:59 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] re: H2SO4 In-Reply-To: <20060506005557.26029.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060506005557.26029.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <445BFAB2.8010901@localb100.com> You can use some brands of drain cleaner sulfuric acid (read the label, and it's usually high enough purity, and costs about $8 a quart) to make biodiesel. However, if you're new to it, you shouldn't really mess around with the acid-catalysed pretreatment process you're probably referring to below when asking. Sulfuric acid is much nastier in case of mess than the other chemicals we work with (ie sulfuric on your skin= no skin, whereas lye on your skin =red skin). Also, the process is much less predictable and is only necessary for really bad oil- which you have to also "dry out" (not an easy task) first to make this process work. Here's the link to the acid-catalysed esterification homebrew discussion forum: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/629605551 Unfortunately, there does not exist one single good web page article explaining how exactly it's done (I'm working on it for biodieselcommunity.org actually). The link above takes you to 'homebrew acid-base recipes' which takes you to two discussion threads which list a couple of good ways to do it. whatever you do, do NOT do the Journeytoforever.org 'foolproof method' way of doing it, it does not work, and there is so much misinformation in that article that it'll confuse you when you try to do it the real way. Mark Brian Perkins wrote: >Hey y'all! (Noob here.) > >Can someone tell me about sources for methanol in G'boro? > >The only place I've found so far is National Welders' Supply. The only problem is that I'd have to >buy a half ton. I don't have $800 spending cash. And I'm not sure that's a good deal even if I >did. >http://208.178.227.196/cgi-bin/nw/WService=nw/skudetl.html?sku=1862056 > >I'm also looking for a good source of sulfuric acid. > >Help? > >Thanks, >Brian > > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From perkinsfam at yahoo.com Fri May 5 20:09:01 2006 From: perkinsfam at yahoo.com (Brian Perkins) Date: Fri May 5 21:06:46 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] re: H2SO4 In-Reply-To: <445BFAB2.8010901@localb100.com> Message-ID: <20060506020901.86382.qmail@web60321.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks gm! Yeah, I am well aware of the idiocy of j2f's "foolproof" idea of putting the acid directly into the oil. As for drying my oil, I have a vacuum drier I built with an old fridge compressor. And yes, sometimes I use really nasty oil. I'll use whatever I can get. Actually, I'm not totally up and running here yet. Still doing small batches while I acquire parts and materials. It's just that I'm new to the area and don't know many people here. What I really wanted to know though was where to get bulk methanol in the G'boro area. Thanks again, Brian __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From perkinsfam at yahoo.com Fri May 5 21:01:14 2006 From: perkinsfam at yahoo.com (Brian Perkins) Date: Fri May 5 21:58:59 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] re: H2SO4 In-Reply-To: <445BFAB2.8010901@localb100.com> Message-ID: <20060506030114.37665.qmail@web60323.mail.yahoo.com> Oh yeah, I forgot... The only drain cleaner I've found is Roebic (same brand of the NaOH I use), but it's only 90% H2SO4 and I've always heard that it needs to be 95% or higher. Do you think 90% would be ok? http://www.roebic.com/pdf/DrainFlowMSDS.pdf By the way gm, I've read just about everything you've written on the web and I really appreciate your willingness to always help. (I haven't bought your book yet, but I plan to get it for a friend who's just starting out.) Thanks, one more time! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Fri May 5 21:08:24 2006 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Fri May 5 22:06:17 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] re: H2SO4 In-Reply-To: <20060506030114.37665.qmail@web60323.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060506030114.37665.qmail@web60323.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <445C1328.7060000@localb100.com> I've done it with lots of drain cleaner stuff and it mostly seems to work. The 95% bit comes from Journeytoforever . When I talked to Dr Jon Van Gerpen a few years ago about what he was using in the process he helped invent, he didn't even know the exact purity of what was in their lab- 90%ish all seems to work. I HAVE heard that sometimes the drain cleaner is significantly lower purity than that (down to as low as 48%), but I haven't experienced problems with it myself in several quarts of trial-and-error purchasing. I"ve also used a known 98% and there was not a significant difference- the process has a mind of it's own (not as badly as waste oil/ethanol biodiesel does though) and the exact amount of catalyst that homebrew acid-base uses is kind of variable anyway (there's a big difference between 1 ml per liter oil and 2 ml per liter of oil, yet we do processes that fall in between those two figures). I've found that the amount of methanol matters a lot more than the amount of sulfuric acid. If you read labels of several brands you find that some contain other ingredients, I'd stay away from those. I generally buy the stuff that works at Ace or True Value. I would guess that the stuff you listed below would work, but haven't tried it myself. Thanks for the compliment. Mark Brian Perkins wrote: >Oh yeah, I forgot... The only drain cleaner I've found is Roebic (same brand of the NaOH I use), >but it's only 90% H2SO4 and I've always heard that it needs to be 95% or higher. Do you think 90% >would be ok? > >http://www.roebic.com/pdf/DrainFlowMSDS.pdf > >By the way gm, I've read just about everything you've written on the web and I really appreciate >your willingness to always help. (I haven't bought your book yet, but I plan to get it for a >friend who's just starting out.) > >Thanks, one more time! > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From rickyb at rickyb.net Sat May 6 07:00:05 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Sat May 6 04:57:00 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] methanol & H2SO4 In-Reply-To: <20060506005557.26029.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060506005557.26029.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <445C73A5.9050707@rickyb.net> We get our methanol at Surry chemical. Its 2.30 a gallon by the 55 gallon drum. Brian Perkins wrote: > Hey y'all! (Noob here.) > > Can someone tell me about sources for methanol in G'boro? > > The only place I've found so far is National Welders' Supply. The only problem is that I'd have to > buy a half ton. I don't have $800 spending cash. And I'm not sure that's a good deal even if I > did. > http://208.178.227.196/cgi-bin/nw/WService=nw/skudetl.html?sku=1862056 > > I'm also looking for a good source of sulfuric acid. > > Help? > > Thanks, > Brian > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From john.bonitz at gmail.com Sat May 6 09:54:01 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Sat May 6 10:51:45 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: Biofuels_Interest_Group: methanol & H2SO4 sources Message-ID: <84a57a420605060854p791251b0m2c2c949368d37341@mail.gmail.com> Welcome to the community, Brian! Do you know Andy McMahan and Adrian Boggs in Greensboro? (I've cc:d Adrian.) http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050822/NEWSREC0101/508220305/1004/NEWSREC020103 They teach a class at the community college. And I know they've been open to cooperative activities in the past, perhaps y'all could get together on your chemical purchases. The folks in Burlington have a tight little coop, definitely worth touring. They are a little closer to Gboro than we are here in Chatham Co. http://www.yesweekly.com/main.asp?SectionID=18&SubSectionID=44&ArticleID=777&TM=46159.5 Here's a link to good chem source info in the central part of Cackalackey: http://www.biofuels.coop/archive/additives.php Happy motoring! -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC www.biofuels.coop Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 06:00:05 -0400 From: rickyb@rickyb.net To: Brian Perkins Cc: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] methanol & H2SO4 Message-ID: <445C73A5.9050707@rickyb.net> In-Reply-To: <20060506005557.26029.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060506005557.26029.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 We get our methanol at Surry chemical. Its 2.30 a gallon by the 55 gallon drum. Brian Perkins wrote: > Hey y'all! (Noob here.) > > Can someone tell me about sources for methanol in G'boro? > > The only place I've found so far is National Welders' Supply. The only problem is that I'd have to > buy a half ton. I don't have $800 spending cash. And I'm not sure that's a good deal even if I > did. > http://208.178.227.196/cgi-bin/nw/WService=nw/skudetl.html?sku=1862056 > > I'm also looking for a good source of sulfuric acid. > > Help? > > Thanks, > Brian From perkinsfam at yahoo.com Sat May 6 12:36:20 2006 From: perkinsfam at yahoo.com (Brian Perkins) Date: Sat May 6 13:34:02 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: methanol & H2SO4 sources In-Reply-To: <84a57a420605060854p791251b0m2c2c949368d37341@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060506183620.79847.qmail@web60314.mail.yahoo.com> Well, I happened to stop at a mom-n-pop hardware store down the street and I picked up a gallon of Comstar "Hot Power", not sure what I was getting because the label only said, "Contains Sulfuric Acid". Brought it home and did an MSDS search: II - COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS COMPONENTS OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV CAS NO. SULFURIC ACID 1 mg/m3 1 mg/m3 7664-93-9 WATER N/A N/A 7732-18-5 Normally, the MSDS will have percentages, but I think these are just safety limits. Later, in section IX (PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES), it mentions 3 concentrations: 77.67%, 93.19%, and 98%. The liquid's color is somewhere between Dos XX Cerveza and Coca Cola, so I don't think it's the 78%. It was $17 for the gallon. Now, for the not-so-good news... I also got a gallon of Klean Strip's "Denatured Alcohol", but just found the MSDS. It's 45-50% Methanol, 45-50% Ethanol, 1-4% Methyl isobutyl ketone, and doesn't say what else is in there. My guess is water picked up by the Ethanol. Oh well, maybe I'll return it. Maybe I'll use it as tank/line/injector cleaner in my gas-burner van. Or maybe a winter thinning agent??? Ahh, I guess I'll just return it and get my $12 back. Thanks everybody! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From wooster at coastalnet.com Sat May 6 23:44:05 2006 From: wooster at coastalnet.com (BENJAMIN F BARNES) Date: Sat May 6 21:41:49 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] methanol & H2SO4 Message-ID: <410-220065072445468@coastalnet.com> Are you in Greensboro or Goldsboro and I assume this is in North Carolina. I am having 4 drums of methanol delivered to a town near Wilson in Wilson Co. on Tuesday. I would like to split these 4 barrels with someone. Ben > [Original Message] > From: Brian Perkins > To: > Date: 5/5/2006 8:56:08 PM > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] methanol & H2SO4 > > Hey y'all! (Noob here.) > > Can someone tell me about sources for methanol in G'boro? > > The only place I've found so far is National Welders' Supply. The only problem is that I'd have to > buy a half ton. I don't have $800 spending cash. And I'm not sure that's a good deal even if I > did. > http://208.178.227.196/cgi-bin/nw/WService=nw/skudetl.html?sku=1862056 > > I'm also looking for a good source of sulfuric acid. > > Help? > > Thanks, > Brian > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From dentonconrad at netzero.net Mon May 8 12:02:11 2006 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad) Date: Mon May 8 10:00:02 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20060508110003.00be6f90@pop.netzero.net> Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. - "Canadian drivers will get two-seater smart cars starting in September. In fact, they'll have two models to chose from that get around 70 mpg because they're diesels, not gasoline-powered. The models use what's called common rail diesel, a technology that's cleaner than older diesel engines. The top speed is 75 mph and prices start around $12,100 for the coupe and $15,170 for the cabriolet." - http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/ From aibodkin at gmail.com Mon May 8 17:11:23 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Mon May 8 15:08:56 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] =?windows-1252?q?Pitfalls=2C_cuss_words_=26_name_calling_encouraged=85?= Message-ID: Well maybe not "encouraged" per se :0) but I am offering this opportunity to blow holes in my theory from all angles and perspectives? I have recently seen a 45,000 watt generator at an auction, it is a 4 cylinder diesel engine and in relatively new condition?my theory is that I can get it to run on grease/bio and sell electricity back to Progress Energy under PURPA of 1978 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Regulatory_Policies_Act and the Energy Policy Act of 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 Although I can't see the "down side" of this proposal, I was called names and verbally "flicked on the ear" for being a "greenie weenie dweeb" by associates and peers? which doesn't really bother me very much because I heard no qualified argument against this thought process? And so this message in a bottle to the pro's (that'd be you), anybody have a negative or "downside" argument as to why we aren't all taking advantage of the opportunity to resell electricity made from waste oil? Any input appreciated? Thanks Andy From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Mon May 8 19:25:15 2006 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark Ambrose) Date: Mon May 8 17:23:55 2006 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BBiofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup=5D__?= =?windows-1252?Q?Pitfalls=2C_cuss_words_=26_name_calling_enc?= =?windows-1252?Q?ouraged=85?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <445FC54B.5000902@alumni.princeton.edu> Andy -- Assuming you are in NC, you might want to discuss your idea with the folks at NC Green Power. http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ They would know what state laws would be relevant to what you want to do. My own initial reaction is that your idea might make economic sense IF you can get the generator to run on waste veggie oil, especially if you can get it to run on some of the lower quality stuff that is suboptimal for use in a grease car or for making biodiesel. Remember that if you use biodiesel yourself, you avoid the retail costs for the fuel. The same applies if you use biodiesel to run your oil furnace. If you sell power to the utility company, you only get paid the wholesale cost of the electricity (plus some $ from NC GreenPower, if you qualify). If you are going to make biodiesel, the biodiesel probably has more value as a motor fuel than as an electricity power source. Using it to produce electricity might only make sense if you were producing much more biodiesel than you need to meet your household needs but too little to make it worthwhile to see that it meets ASTM standards so that you can sell it. -- Mark A Bodkin wrote: > Well maybe not "encouraged" per se :0) > > but I am offering this opportunity to blow holes in my theory from all > angles and perspectives? > > I have recently seen a 45,000 watt generator at an auction, it is a 4 > cylinder diesel engine and in relatively new condition?my theory is > that I can get it to run on grease/bio and sell electricity back to > Progress Energy under PURPA of 1978 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Regulatory_Policies_Act > > and the Energy Policy Act of 2005 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 > > > Although I can't see the "down side" of this proposal, I was called > names and verbally "flicked on the ear" for being a "greenie weenie > dweeb" by associates and peers? which doesn't really bother me very > much because I heard no qualified argument against this thought > process? > > And so this message in a bottle to the pro's (that'd be you), anybody > have a negative or "downside" argument as to why we aren't all taking > advantage of the opportunity to resell electricity made from waste > oil? > > Any input appreciated? > > Thanks > Andy > _____________ From membender at hotmail.com Mon May 8 20:28:25 2006 From: membender at hotmail.com (Michael Bender) Date: Mon May 8 21:26:03 2006 Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_=5BBiofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup=5D__Pitfalls=2C_c?= =?Windows-1252?Q?uss_words_&_name_calling_encouraged=85?= References: <445FC54B.5000902@alumni.princeton.edu> Message-ID: If you can use WVO and capture and use the "waste heat" (over half of the energy produced), I think it would easily be worth it. As a matter of fact, I stumbled across this guy in the UK ( http://www.powercubes.com/listers_2.html ) doing just that! It's all about not letting anything go to "waste"!! Good luck and keep us all informed, svp. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ambrose" To: "A Bodkin" Cc: "BIG" Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pitfalls, cuss words & name calling encouraged? > Andy -- > > Assuming you are in NC, you might want to discuss your idea with the folks > at NC Green Power. > > http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ > > They would know what state laws would be relevant to what you want to do. > > My own initial reaction is that your idea might make economic sense IF you > can get the generator to run on waste veggie oil, especially if you can > get it to run on some of the lower quality stuff that is suboptimal for > use in a grease car or for making biodiesel. > > Remember that if you use biodiesel yourself, you avoid the retail costs > for the fuel. The same applies if you use biodiesel to run your oil > furnace. If you sell power to the utility company, you only get paid the > wholesale cost of the electricity (plus some $ from NC GreenPower, if you > qualify). If you are going to make biodiesel, the biodiesel probably has > more value as a motor fuel than as an electricity power source. Using it > to produce electricity might only make sense if you were producing much > more biodiesel than you need to meet your household needs but too little > to make it worthwhile to see that it meets ASTM standards so that you can > sell it. > > -- Mark > > A Bodkin wrote: > >> Well maybe not "encouraged" per se :0) >> >> but I am offering this opportunity to blow holes in my theory from all >> angles and perspectives? >> >> I have recently seen a 45,000 watt generator at an auction, it is a 4 >> cylinder diesel engine and in relatively new condition?my theory is >> that I can get it to run on grease/bio and sell electricity back to >> Progress Energy under PURPA of 1978 >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Regulatory_Policies_Act >> >> and the Energy Policy Act of 2005 >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 >> >> >> Although I can't see the "down side" of this proposal, I was called >> names and verbally "flicked on the ear" for being a "greenie weenie >> dweeb" by associates and peers? which doesn't really bother me very >> much because I heard no qualified argument against this thought >> process? >> >> And so this message in a bottle to the pro's (that'd be you), anybody >> have a negative or "downside" argument as to why we aren't all taking >> advantage of the opportunity to resell electricity made from waste >> oil? >> >> Any input appreciated? >> >> Thanks >> Andy >> _____________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From biodiesel at yovo.info Tue May 9 00:01:38 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Mon May 8 21:59:22 2006 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BBiofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup=5D__?= =?windows-1252?Q?Pitfalls=2C_cuss_words_=26_name_calling_enc?= =?windows-1252?Q?ouraged=85?= In-Reply-To: References: <445FC54B.5000902@alumni.princeton.edu> Message-ID: <44600612.4060204@yovo.info> Andy, I'd start small and test this idea with a small generator. I understand that it's a different ballgame running a diesel generator on biodiesel (or WVO) compared to a diesel car. I am curious about generators on BD/WVO myself. Any one on the list with a generator who would like to share experiences? Those listeroids are so cool - I wonder if there are any engines like this available in NC? Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Bender wrote: > If you can use WVO and capture and use the "waste heat" (over half of > the energy produced), I think it would easily be worth it. As a matter > of fact, I stumbled across this guy in the UK > ( http://www.powercubes.com/listers_2.html ) > doing just that! It's all about not letting anything go to "waste"!! > > Good luck and keep us all informed, svp. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ambrose" > > To: "A Bodkin" > Cc: "BIG" > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pitfalls, cuss words & name > calling encouraged? > > >> Andy -- >> >> Assuming you are in NC, you might want to discuss your idea with the >> folks at NC Green Power. >> >> http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ >> >> They would know what state laws would be relevant to what you want to do. >> >> My own initial reaction is that your idea might make economic sense IF >> you can get the generator to run on waste veggie oil, especially if >> you can get it to run on some of the lower quality stuff that is >> suboptimal for use in a grease car or for making biodiesel. >> >> Remember that if you use biodiesel yourself, you avoid the retail >> costs for the fuel. The same applies if you use biodiesel to run your >> oil furnace. If you sell power to the utility company, you only get >> paid the wholesale cost of the electricity (plus some $ from NC >> GreenPower, if you qualify). If you are going to make biodiesel, the >> biodiesel probably has more value as a motor fuel than as an >> electricity power source. Using it to produce electricity might only >> make sense if you were producing much more biodiesel than you need to >> meet your household needs but too little to make it worthwhile to see >> that it meets ASTM standards so that you can sell it. >> >> -- Mark >> >> A Bodkin wrote: >> >>> Well maybe not "encouraged" per se :0) >>> >>> but I am offering this opportunity to blow holes in my theory from all >>> angles and perspectives? >>> >>> I have recently seen a 45,000 watt generator at an auction, it is a 4 >>> cylinder diesel engine and in relatively new condition?my theory is >>> that I can get it to run on grease/bio and sell electricity back to >>> Progress Energy under PURPA of 1978 >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Regulatory_Policies_Act >>> >>> and the Energy Policy Act of 2005 >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 >>> >>> >>> Although I can't see the "down side" of this proposal, I was called >>> names and verbally "flicked on the ear" for being a "greenie weenie >>> dweeb" by associates and peers? which doesn't really bother me very >>> much because I heard no qualified argument against this thought >>> process? >>> >>> And so this message in a bottle to the pro's (that'd be you), anybody >>> have a negative or "downside" argument as to why we aren't all taking >>> advantage of the opportunity to resell electricity made from waste >>> oil? >>> >>> Any input appreciated? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Andy >>> _____________ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From membender at hotmail.com Tue May 9 00:09:26 2006 From: membender at hotmail.com (Michael Bender) Date: Tue May 9 01:07:03 2006 Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_=5BBiofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup=5D__Pitfalls=2C_c?= =?Windows-1252?Q?uss_words_&_name_calling_encouraged=85?= References: <445FC54B.5000902@alumni.princeton.edu> <44600612.4060204@yovo.info> Message-ID: More info on Listers and Listeroids (amongst other alternative energy solutions): http://www.utterpower.com http://www.utterpower.com/listeroi.htm He claims that "If you are looking to burn used Vegetable oil for fuel, this engine design may be the best thing you ever find to do it." He also sells them, or at least has a waiting list for interested parties, and has a CD and booklet describing his experiences. Lots of good info and pictures. 600 RPM! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jurgen Henn" To: "BIG" Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pitfalls, cuss words & name calling encouraged? > Andy, > I'd start small and test this idea with a small generator. I understand > that it's a different ballgame running a diesel generator on biodiesel (or > WVO) compared to a diesel car. > > I am curious about generators on BD/WVO myself. Any one on the list with a > generator who would like to share experiences? > > Those listeroids are so cool - I wonder if there are any engines like this > available in NC? > > Jurgen > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jurgen Henn > 2002 Jetta TDI > 40/50 MPG on biodiesel > http://words.yovo.info/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Michael Bender wrote: >> If you can use WVO and capture and use the "waste heat" (over half of the >> energy produced), I think it would easily be worth it. As a matter of >> fact, I stumbled across this guy in the UK >> ( http://www.powercubes.com/listers_2.html ) >> doing just that! It's all about not letting anything go to "waste"!! >> >> Good luck and keep us all informed, svp. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ambrose" >> >> To: "A Bodkin" >> Cc: "BIG" >> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pitfalls, cuss words & name >> calling encouraged? >> >> >>> Andy -- >>> >>> Assuming you are in NC, you might want to discuss your idea with the >>> folks at NC Green Power. >>> >>> http://www.ncgreenpower.org/ >>> >>> They would know what state laws would be relevant to what you want to >>> do. >>> >>> My own initial reaction is that your idea might make economic sense IF >>> you can get the generator to run on waste veggie oil, especially if you >>> can get it to run on some of the lower quality stuff that is suboptimal >>> for use in a grease car or for making biodiesel. >>> >>> Remember that if you use biodiesel yourself, you avoid the retail costs >>> for the fuel. The same applies if you use biodiesel to run your oil >>> furnace. If you sell power to the utility company, you only get paid >>> the wholesale cost of the electricity (plus some $ from NC GreenPower, >>> if you qualify). If you are going to make biodiesel, the biodiesel >>> probably has more value as a motor fuel than as an electricity power >>> source. Using it to produce electricity might only make sense if you >>> were producing much more biodiesel than you need to meet your household >>> needs but too little to make it worthwhile to see that it meets ASTM >>> standards so that you can sell it. >>> >>> -- Mark >>> >>> A Bodkin wrote: >>> >>>> Well maybe not "encouraged" per se :0) >>>> >>>> but I am offering this opportunity to blow holes in my theory from all >>>> angles and perspectives? >>>> >>>> I have recently seen a 45,000 watt generator at an auction, it is a 4 >>>> cylinder diesel engine and in relatively new condition?my theory is >>>> that I can get it to run on grease/bio and sell electricity back to >>>> Progress Energy under PURPA of 1978 >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Regulatory_Policies_Act >>>> >>>> and the Energy Policy Act of 2005 >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 >>>> >>>> >>>> Although I can't see the "down side" of this proposal, I was called >>>> names and verbally "flicked on the ear" for being a "greenie weenie >>>> dweeb" by associates and peers? which doesn't really bother me very >>>> much because I heard no qualified argument against this thought >>>> process? >>>> >>>> And so this message in a bottle to the pro's (that'd be you), anybody >>>> have a negative or "downside" argument as to why we aren't all taking >>>> advantage of the opportunity to resell electricity made from waste >>>> oil? >>>> >>>> Any input appreciated? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Andy >>>> _____________ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From hogarth at gmail.com Tue May 9 07:52:05 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Tue May 9 05:49:36 2006 Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_[Biofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup]_Pitfalls?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?,_cuss_words_&_name_calling_encouraged=85?= In-Reply-To: References: <445FC54B.5000902@alumni.princeton.edu> <44600612.4060204@yovo.info> Message-ID: <3889aa560605090352k608f5280gef334311f456958@mail.gmail.com> On 5/9/06, Michael Bender wrote: > More info on Listers and Listeroids (amongst other alternative energy > solutions): > > http://www.utterpower.com > http://www.utterpower.com/listeroi.htm > > He claims that "If you are looking to burn used Vegetable oil for fuel, this > engine design may be the best thing you ever find to do it." He also sells > them, or at least has a waiting list for interested parties, and has a CD > and booklet describing his experiences. Lots of good info and pictures. > 600 RPM! Bill and I have one of those, and run our backup electrical power generation off it (primary is solar). Bill generally runs it on a mix of veggie and fossil, although it has run on SVO also. Bill has blogged about it here: http://leavingthegrid.blogspot.com/ Some specific posts about the Lister (in reverse chronological order) are: http://leavingthegrid.blogspot.com/2006/01/generator-maintenance.html http://leavingthegrid.blogspot.com/2005/10/getting-waste-heat-from-veg-oil-engine.html http://leavingthegrid.blogspot.com/2005/08/things-are-mess-and-belt-tensioner-is.html (that one, above, has a nice picture) http://leavingthegrid.blogspot.com/2005/07/still-no-genset-pics-but-svo.html http://leavingthegrid.blogspot.com/2005/07/diesel-backup.html -- Susan Hogarth | colliething.com NC Ballot Access Coalition http://www.ncballotaccess.org From mackin at email.unc.edu Tue May 9 11:42:06 2006 From: mackin at email.unc.edu (William Mackin) Date: Tue May 9 09:40:31 2006 Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_[Biofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup]__Pitfalls,_cu?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?ss_words_&_name_calling_encouraged=85?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <048add145fec407fb98b7c52d5bbad2c@email.unc.edu> If you can buy/make biodiesel or straight veggie, pay for and maintain the generator, and burn that generator to make power for cheaper than you can sell power for, then you should be correct. This of course is discounting your time and the noise the generator makes and the annoyance to any neighbors you have of the 95 dB generator in your back yard. Go for it. Will On May 8, 2006, at 4:11 PM, A Bodkin wrote: > Well maybe not "encouraged" per se :0) > > but I am offering this opportunity to blow holes in my theory from all > angles and perspectives? > > I have recently seen a 45,000 watt generator at an auction, it is a 4 > cylinder diesel engine and in relatively new condition?my theory is > that I can get it to run on grease/bio and sell electricity back to > Progress Energy under PURPA of 1978 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Utility_Regulatory_Policies_Act > > and the Energy Policy Act of 2005 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005 > > > Although I can't see the "down side" of this proposal, I was called > names and verbally "flicked on the ear" for being a "greenie weenie > dweeb" by associates and peers? which doesn't really bother me very > much because I heard no qualified argument against this thought > process? > > And so this message in a bottle to the pro's (that'd be you), anybody > have a negative or "downside" argument as to why we aren't all taking > advantage of the opportunity to resell electricity made from waste > oil? > > Any input appreciated? > > Thanks > Andy > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From dentonconrad at netzero.net Tue May 9 11:46:16 2006 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad) Date: Tue May 9 09:44:55 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Out of fry pan and into the tank with canola? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20060509104542.00c54800@pop.netzero.net> Out of fry pan and into the tank with canola? - http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/437541.html From roland.clarke at gmail.com Tue May 9 12:42:21 2006 From: roland.clarke at gmail.com (Roland Clarke) Date: Tue May 9 10:39:50 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20060508110003.00be6f90@pop.netzero.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20060508110003.00be6f90@pop.netzero.net> Message-ID: Smart cars have actually been available in Canada for more than a year now. I almost bought one... Settled for a Jetta TDI instead. On 5/8/06, Denton Conrad wrote: > Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. - > > "Canadian drivers will get two-seater smart cars starting in September. In > fact, they'll have two models to chose from that get around 70 mpg because > they're diesels, not gasoline-powered. > > The models use what's called common rail diesel, a technology that's > cleaner than older diesel engines. The top speed is 75 mph and prices start > around $12,100 for the coupe and $15,170 for the cabriolet." - > > http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue May 9 12:42:14 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue May 9 11:08:38 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Diesel vehicles in England References: <001801c670a7$e7ea2910$0201a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> Message-ID: <0CE384D7-4FE6-4D24-99E0-3DC2CD54DD5E@blast.com> Guys and Gals, Last week I returned from England after a fortnight's visit. I was amazed to see all the diesel vehicles that were available. I have been to England a number of times, but this is the first time I went, seeing things through my "biodiesel spectacles". (After doing a Biodiesel course last year) Some stats report that 40% of all new vehicle sales in the UK and Western Europe are diesels. As I'm sure you are aware, diesels have been available in lots of makes for 40 to 50 years in Europe. Of course, the big question is why these vehicles aren?t available in the USA. Some say it's the emissions - I say, what about the trucks that spew out black smoke all over the country 24/7 and what about the Ford, Chevy and Dodge diesel pick-ups. The consumption of diesel compared to the consumption of gasoline in the US is but a fraction. One could be led to think that the Government doesn't want too many people driving diesel powered vehicles, as that would reduce their tax revenue on those particular users by half - nah!! the Government wouldn't do that, would they????? Strangely, in the two weeks in England, I didn't see a single Hybrid vehicle. Not that they aren't popular - I just didn't see any. Anyway, why would anyone want to buy a Hybrid when diesels are freely available in most makes and can get 60 mpg? I did see lots of Porches and speed traps. The Police are very active there when it comes to speed trapping. (Camera and radar) I had the pleasure of driving a VW Passat 1.9 TDi 130 BHP, 6 speed manual - what a gas (excuse the pun). The torque that engine has is amazing. Here is a list of current models that are available in England. There are lots of used diesels, in vehicles no longer in production, ranging from 1999-2004. I have not listed them. I have listed vehicles that are not sold here in the USA - and have diesels in their range - they are the names with no details next to them. You'll have to do the math to get the US mpg figures - mpg figures given are Imperial. (Divide the Imp. mpg by 1.2 for US mpg ) See Pdf below for vehicle list. Begin forwarded message: -------------- next part -------------- From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com Tue May 9 12:52:49 2006 From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl) Date: Tue May 9 11:39:35 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. Message-ID: I don't expect a push for more fuel-efficient vehicles into this country, until there is a change-of-command at the EPA in 2008. You can't expect an EPA run by Big Oil to be receptive to anything that will cut into petroleum profits. But, at least its on the horizon... -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Roland Clarke Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 11:42 AM To: Denton Conrad Cc: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. Smart cars have actually been available in Canada for more than a year now. I almost bought one... Settled for a Jetta TDI instead. On 5/8/06, Denton Conrad wrote: > Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. - > > "Canadian drivers will get two-seater smart cars starting in September. In > fact, they'll have two models to chose from that get around 70 mpg because > they're diesels, not gasoline-powered. > > The models use what's called common rail diesel, a technology that's > cleaner than older diesel engines. The top speed is 75 mph and prices start > around $12,100 for the coupe and $15,170 for the cabriolet." - > > http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From bknighton at nc.rr.com Tue May 9 02:06:01 2006 From: bknighton at nc.rr.com (Bill Knighton) Date: Tue May 9 11:54:53 2006 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BBiofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup=5D__?= =?windows-1252?Q?Pitfalls=2C_cuss_words_=26_name_calling_enc?= =?windows-1252?Q?ouraged=85?= References: BAY113-DAV308A45DB7141A5424012BB0A90@phx.gbl Message-ID: <44602339.8070106@nc.rr.com> I have a listeroid 6/1 running at 2000 watts for solar backup or sustained heavy machine shop work. It has been run on exclusively 100% new VO or 90% VO and 10% kerosene. It's been in use since approximately last summer. I've taken the head, cylinder and piston off for serious cleaning three times. At the third service I modified the head to accept a thermostat from napa. It no longer seems to get carboned up. I have experimented with heat recovery twice using 3/8" ID and 1/4" ID copper coils in the coolant tank using different flow rates. It is a potent source of waste heat for domestic water, but I have several sources of heat and it's the furthest from the house. Images are at leavingthegrid.blogspot.com . You may need to scroll down a ways or look in the archives section. There are images and some discussion. You might catch it in action after several cloudy days at cobblies.blogdns.net. This address is a PDA web server I rigged to monitor house power usage. If the net power reading is higher than the solar input then the veg gen is running. George at utterpower.com is a very good guy to get these from. He publishes a CD with all kinds of useful info on the subject and lives an off grid lifestyle. > Andy, > I'd start small and test this idea with a small generator. I understand > that it's a different ballgame running a diesel generator on biodiesel > (or WVO) compared to a diesel car. > > I am curious about generators on BD/WVO myself. Any one on the list with > a generator who would like to share experiences? > > Those listeroids are so cool - I wonder if there are any engines like > this available in NC? > > Jurgen > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jurgen Henn > 2002 Jetta TDI > 40/50 MPG on biodiesel > http://words.yovo.info/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Michael Bender wrote: > >/ If you can use WVO and capture and use the "waste heat" (over half of > />/ the energy produced), I think it would easily be worth it. As a matter > />/ of fact, I stumbled across this guy in the UK > />/ ( http://www.powercubes.com/listers_2.html ) > />/ doing just that! It's all about not letting anything go to "waste"!! > />/ > />/ Good luck and keep us all informed, svp. > />/ / From biodiesel at yovo.info Tue May 9 13:29:10 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Tue May 9 12:58:27 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20060508110003.00be6f90@pop.netzero.net> Message-ID: <4460C356.2020003@yovo.info> We saw quite a few SMART cars in Germany last summer. However, Mercedes axed the four-seater version and sold the roadster design. They are still loosing a ton on the two-seater. This company is supposed to sell them in the US: http://www.zapworld.com/cars/smartCar.asp But check out Q2 in their FAQ ... WHO KNOWS when they'll actually start selling them ... When it comes to micro cars, personally, I'd wait for the Loremo: http://www.loremo.com/index_en.php This 450 Kg, 2-cyl TURBO DIESEL is priced at 11,000 Euro ($13,000) and it is supposed to get 160 MPG. AND it can run on biodiesel. yes - the SMART is cuter ... Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Roland Clarke wrote: > Smart cars have actually been available in Canada for more than a year > now. I almost bought one... > Settled for a Jetta TDI instead. > > > On 5/8/06, Denton Conrad wrote: >> Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. - >> >> "Canadian drivers will get two-seater smart cars starting in >> September. In >> fact, they'll have two models to chose from that get around 70 mpg >> because >> they're diesels, not gasoline-powered. >> >> The models use what's called common rail diesel, a technology that's >> cleaner than older diesel engines. The top speed is 75 mph and prices >> start >> around $12,100 for the coupe and $15,170 for the cabriolet." - >> >> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Tue May 9 16:01:56 2006 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark Ambrose) Date: Tue May 9 18:48:10 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Diesel vehicles in England In-Reply-To: <0CE384D7-4FE6-4D24-99E0-3DC2CD54DD5E@blast.com> References: <001801c670a7$e7ea2910$0201a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> <0CE384D7-4FE6-4D24-99E0-3DC2CD54DD5E@blast.com> Message-ID: <4460E724.9030909@alumni.princeton.edu> Folks - The best explanation for the lack of diesel autos in the US market is that auto makers were stupid in the '70's and 80's and soured the public on diesels. After the first oil crisis in the 70's lots of auto manufacturers rushed to produce diesel versions of their cars for the US market. The main reason, besides better fuel efficiency, was that because of how petroleum was distilled, although we were having shortages of gasoline, we were not having comparable shortages of diesel fuel. However, a lot of the diesels that hit the market during that era were not very well built. There were also not a lot of mechanics with experience with them. So diesels gained a reputation for being noisy, dirty, and unreliable. Only a couple of manufacturers (i.e. VW & MB) produced generally high quality diesel autos for the North American market. Consider this: you can still find plenty of 1970's and 1980's VW and MB diesels on the road. How many GM or Chrysler diesels from that era are still running? Before switching to diesel I was a Volvo driver. Volvos have a reputation for high quality. The Volvo 240 has been like MB 300SD in having a reputation for lasting forever. You can find lots of 1980's gasoline 240's still on the road. It is hard to find an old 240 diesel! Lots were sold here. My uncle had one. But they just weren't as reliable as their gasoline counterparts. I think this experience soured the public on diesel, so manufacturers have been reluctant to re-enter the US market. IT also affected policy makers to the point that they haven't encouraged diesel autos at all. I don't think they have particularly discouraged diesel, but they saw no particular reason to push diesel either. My guess is that what happened in Europe was that policies that kept fuel prices high maintained an incentive to build more fuel efficient vehicles, so other manufacturers had a reason to keep making diesels and work thru the quality/relibility issues of the 70's and 80's. Does anyone know if there were more specific pro-diesel policies in Europe? -- Mark Rachel Burton wrote: > Guys and Gals, > > Last week I returned from England after a fortnight's visit. I was > amazed to see all > the diesel vehicles that were available. I have been to England a > number of > times, but this is the first time I went, seeing things through my > "biodiesel > spectacles". (After doing a Biodiesel course last year) > > Some stats report that 40% of all new vehicle sales in the UK and > Western Europe are diesels. As I'm sure you are aware, diesels have been > available in lots of makes for 40 to 50 years in Europe. > > Of course, the big question is why these vehicles aren?t available in > the USA. > Some say it's the emissions - I say, what about the trucks that spew > out black > smoke all over the country 24/7 and what about the Ford, Chevy and Dodge > diesel pick-ups. The consumption of diesel compared to the > consumption of > gasoline in the US is but a fraction. One could be led to think that the > Government doesn't want too many people driving diesel powered > vehicles, as > that would reduce their tax revenue on those particular users by half > - nah!! the > Government wouldn't do that, would they????? From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue May 9 16:23:07 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue May 9 18:49:07 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Axiom Energy to Build New Biodiesel Facility in Australia Message-ID: <6FDD3DC6-DA5C-400F-ABDE-36E8C57681CE@blast.com> Australian energy business Axiom Energy, Ltd. recently announced plans to build a new biodiesel manufacturing facility at Toll GeelongPort in Victoria, Australia. According to Axiom, the plant, which will be capable of producing 150 million liters of biodiesel annually, will be the largest such facility in the state. Axiom noted that the plant will produce biodiesel from renewable plant oils and animal fats. The plant is expected to begin production by the middle of 2007. Contact: Axiom, website http://www.axiomenergyltd.com.au. (EIN STAFF: 5/5) From bknighton at nc.rr.com Tue May 9 14:56:53 2006 From: bknighton at nc.rr.com (Bill Knighton) Date: Tue May 9 20:32:37 2006 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BBiofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup=5D__?= =?windows-1252?Q?Pitfalls=2C_cuss_words_=26_name_calling_enc?= =?windows-1252?Q?ouraged=85?= References: a7ab88920605081311v1c7675c4l23ca7f9771b26da5@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <4460D7E5.4080901@nc.rr.com> The lister style engines muffle well with a car muffler. Since they run at 600 rpm they are not at all annoying. Standing 30 feet away they are about as loud and similar in sound to a washing machine. I can easily have a conversation when one is running in the shop. One user, who you can find linked at utterpower.com runs one in his basement. He lives on small residential lot and it is not a problem. He has used a dual walled barrel with sand in between as a silencer. Of course he pipes the exhaust up and out. I think that even if you could get the SVO free it would be hard to make money. To me the best purpose for local power generation is to provide the tiny amount of electricity needed for economized, off grid individual or neighborhood community users. > If you can buy/make biodiesel or straight veggie, pay for and maintain > the generator, and burn that generator to make power for cheaper than > you can sell power for, then you should be correct. > > This of course is discounting your time and the noise the generator > makes and the annoyance to any neighbors you have of the 95 dB > generator in your back yard. > > Go for it. > > Will From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com Wed May 10 09:11:57 2006 From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl) Date: Wed May 10 07:09:24 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. Message-ID: That is what is great about this country...we are ALL entitled to our opinions. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Francis Miller [mailto:francismiller@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 8:31 AM To: Ganter, Cheryl Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. Cheryl: It seems almost pathological that people have to insert their political beliefs into the discussion assuming everyone is liberal democratic. If you want to rant about big oil and the current administration at EPA start your own site. I for one find it irritating. Fran Miller, Denver. Ganter, Cheryl wrote: >I don't expect a push for more fuel-efficient vehicles into this >country, until there is a change-of-command at the EPA in 2008. You >can't expect an EPA run by Big Oil to be receptive to anything that will >cut into petroleum profits. >But, at least its on the horizon... > >-----Original Message----- >From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net >[mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of >Roland Clarke >Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 11:42 AM >To: Denton Conrad >Cc: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Europe's 'smart' cars coming to >U.S. > > >Smart cars have actually been available in Canada for more than a year >now. I almost bought one... >Settled for a Jetta TDI instead. > > >On 5/8/06, Denton Conrad wrote: > > >>Europe's 'smart' cars coming to U.S. - >> >>"Canadian drivers will get two-seater smart cars starting in >> >> >September. In > > >>fact, they'll have two models to chose from that get around 70 mpg >> >> >because > > >>they're diesels, not gasoline-powered. >> >>The models use what's called common rail diesel, a technology that's >>cleaner than older diesel engines. The top speed is 75 mph and prices >> >> >start > > >>around $12,100 for the coupe and $15,170 for the cabriolet." - >> >>http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/ >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From daproducts at wave-net.net Wed May 10 22:18:46 2006 From: daproducts at wave-net.net (Ashley Silva) Date: Wed May 10 20:16:46 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Us and them" References: Message-ID: <000a01c67498$da58edf0$0201a8c0@dap811a019a040> Dear All, I have been receiving email from this forum for some time now and am saddened that there seems to be an "us and them" mentality - "us" being people interested in biodiesel and alternative fuels, and "them" being everyone else - namely, anyone associated with "big oil", the petrochemical industry or it's products. We need to be working together as we will never be able to do without oil/natural gas/coal. A lot of people can't answer the question when asked... "where would we get, asphalt, heavy furnace oils, alcohols, ethylene, waxes, paraffins, plastics, synthetic oils, synthetic rubber, fertilizers, pesticides, explosives, from, if not from "fossil fuels". Oil/coal/natural gas gives us chemicals for: Abrasives Adhesives Agricultural products Amines Cardboard/paper industry Catalysts Ceramic/refractory industry Cleaning agents/surfactants Coating/paint applications Corrosion/rust inhibitor Cosmetics/toiletries Crystal growth Floor care products Fluorescent lamp coatings Food/flavor/fragrance/pharmaceutical Hair care/personal care/skin care Heat transfer fluids Ink/pigment applications Insecticides Lamp fuel Lube oil additives Magnetic media Metal processing Plastic additive/plasticizer Phosphor/luminescent Process solvent Textile industry chemicals Thickeners The chemical industry depends on supplies of oils as feedstocks for the manufacture of thousands of products which contribute to the comfort and convenience of our modern lifestyle. I have researched and found that it is reported we as a planet, have 40 years left of oil, 60 years of natural gas, and 200 years of coal (at present consumption rates) The USA has the largest coal reserves in the world. Diesel made from coal or natural gas using the Fischer-Tropsch method, is ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) This is where biodiesel comes in, as I'm sure most of you know, providing the lubricity that is absent after the sulphur is removed. Let us try and work together and be thankful for the fossil fuels we have. Alternative energy is a small part of our national energy requirement and of course we should do all we can to increase that amount. We should however, be practical, think before we speak and look at the big picture of where all the contributors fit in. Go well, Ashley Silva Sanford, NC. From forrest at truffula.net Wed May 10 21:12:00 2006 From: forrest at truffula.net (Forrest English) Date: Wed May 10 22:09:36 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Us and them" In-Reply-To: <000a01c67498$da58edf0$0201a8c0@dap811a019a040> References: <000a01c67498$da58edf0$0201a8c0@dap811a019a040> Message-ID: Ashley, Sounds like you're one of them. "We will never be able to do without oil/natural gas/coal." Strange, I seem to recall people living pre-industrial revolution. Which history book have you been using? For that matter... I'll go down your list. * asphalt: Since I don't think we'll have the energy resources to support vast fleets of motor vehicles, this seems like a non issue to me. * heavy furnace oils: SVO is a lot like Fuel Oil that large ships use. They heat fuel oil to 120 F so that it can flow, and it doesn't clog the injectors. To start and shutdown, they use Diesel. Biodiesel could be used in place of that. In fact, it's almost exactly like a 2 tank SVO system. * alcohols: Ethanol has been around for a looooong time. I hear that people even know how to make it! There is also organic derived methanol * ethylene: Plastics manufacturing shouldn't require this anymore, more on plastics. * waxes: Heard of bees? * paraffins: Biofuels can be used in place of kerosene, granted the use of biofuels in colder climates requires some more creative engineering, but there are people that run B100 in very cold places by using heating elements rigged to their battery systems. * plastics: There are plant based plastics, it's here and now. * synthetic oils: Why not use non-synthetic oils? Triglycerides are here to stay. * synthetic rubber: Non-synthetic rubbers, what is this a trick question? * fertilizers: Have you ever heard of manure or compost? Holy crap, my garden loves it. * pesticides: Organic farming is a proven reality, it works well and tastes good. Loses less of our valuable topsoil and less pollutants too. * explosives: I'm still trying to figure out a use for explosives that is environmentally and socially responsible in the long run. So I'm not real concerned about this one frankly. I hate to break it to you, but the "comfort and convenience of our modern lifestyle" ain't sustainable. I think it's possible to have a very comfortable existence without most of the crap you're talkin about. On May 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Ashley Silva wrote: > Dear All, > > I have been receiving email from this forum for some time now and > am saddened that there seems to be an "us and them" mentality - > "us" being people interested in biodiesel and alternative fuels, > and "them" being everyone else - namely, anyone associated with > "big oil", the petrochemical industry or it's products. > > We need to be working together as we will never be able to do > without oil/natural gas/coal. A lot of people can't answer the > question when asked... "where would we get, asphalt, heavy furnace > oils, alcohols, ethylene, waxes, paraffins, plastics, synthetic > oils, synthetic rubber, fertilizers, pesticides, explosives, from, > if not from "fossil fuels". > > Oil/coal/natural gas gives us chemicals for: > > Abrasives > Adhesives > Agricultural products > Amines > Cardboard/paper industry > Catalysts > Ceramic/refractory industry > Cleaning agents/surfactants > Coating/paint applications > Corrosion/rust inhibitor > Cosmetics/toiletries > Crystal growth > Floor care products > Fluorescent lamp coatings > Food/flavor/fragrance/pharmaceutical > Hair care/personal care/skin care > Heat transfer fluids > Ink/pigment applications > Insecticides > Lamp fuel > Lube oil additives > Magnetic media > Metal processing > Plastic additive/plasticizer > Phosphor/luminescent > Process solvent > Textile industry chemicals > Thickeners > > The chemical industry depends on supplies of oils as feedstocks for > the manufacture of thousands of products which contribute to the > comfort and convenience of our modern lifestyle. > > I have researched and found that it is reported we as a planet, > have 40 years left of oil, 60 years of natural gas, and 200 years > of coal (at present consumption rates) The USA has the largest coal > reserves in the world. Diesel made from coal or natural gas using > the Fischer-Tropsch method, is ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) This > is where biodiesel comes in, as I'm sure most of you know, > providing the lubricity that is absent after the sulphur is removed. > > Let us try and work together and be thankful for the fossil fuels > we have. Alternative energy is a small part of our national energy > requirement and of course we should do all we can to increase that > amount. We should however, be practical, think before we speak and > look at the big picture of where all the contributors fit in. > > Go well, > > Ashley Silva > Sanford, NC. > > -- Forrest English From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com Thu May 11 09:19:50 2006 From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl) Date: Thu May 11 07:43:05 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Us and them" Message-ID: Go Forrest...Go Forrest!! -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Forrest English Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:12 PM To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Us and them" Ashley, Sounds like you're one of them. "We will never be able to do without oil/natural gas/coal." Strange, I seem to recall people living pre-industrial revolution. Which history book have you been using? For that matter... I'll go down your list. * asphalt: Since I don't think we'll have the energy resources to support vast fleets of motor vehicles, this seems like a non issue to me. * heavy furnace oils: SVO is a lot like Fuel Oil that large ships use. They heat fuel oil to 120 F so that it can flow, and it doesn't clog the injectors. To start and shutdown, they use Diesel. Biodiesel could be used in place of that. In fact, it's almost exactly like a 2 tank SVO system. * alcohols: Ethanol has been around for a looooong time. I hear that people even know how to make it! There is also organic derived methanol * ethylene: Plastics manufacturing shouldn't require this anymore, more on plastics. * waxes: Heard of bees? * paraffins: Biofuels can be used in place of kerosene, granted the use of biofuels in colder climates requires some more creative engineering, but there are people that run B100 in very cold places by using heating elements rigged to their battery systems. * plastics: There are plant based plastics, it's here and now. * synthetic oils: Why not use non-synthetic oils? Triglycerides are here to stay. * synthetic rubber: Non-synthetic rubbers, what is this a trick question? * fertilizers: Have you ever heard of manure or compost? Holy crap, my garden loves it. * pesticides: Organic farming is a proven reality, it works well and tastes good. Loses less of our valuable topsoil and less pollutants too. * explosives: I'm still trying to figure out a use for explosives that is environmentally and socially responsible in the long run. So I'm not real concerned about this one frankly. I hate to break it to you, but the "comfort and convenience of our modern lifestyle" ain't sustainable. I think it's possible to have a very comfortable existence without most of the crap you're talkin about. On May 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Ashley Silva wrote: > Dear All, > > I have been receiving email from this forum for some time now and > am saddened that there seems to be an "us and them" mentality - > "us" being people interested in biodiesel and alternative fuels, > and "them" being everyone else - namely, anyone associated with > "big oil", the petrochemical industry or it's products. > > We need to be working together as we will never be able to do > without oil/natural gas/coal. A lot of people can't answer the > question when asked... "where would we get, asphalt, heavy furnace > oils, alcohols, ethylene, waxes, paraffins, plastics, synthetic > oils, synthetic rubber, fertilizers, pesticides, explosives, from, > if not from "fossil fuels". > > Oil/coal/natural gas gives us chemicals for: > > Abrasives > Adhesives > Agricultural products > Amines > Cardboard/paper industry > Catalysts > Ceramic/refractory industry > Cleaning agents/surfactants > Coating/paint applications > Corrosion/rust inhibitor > Cosmetics/toiletries > Crystal growth > Floor care products > Fluorescent lamp coatings > Food/flavor/fragrance/pharmaceutical > Hair care/personal care/skin care > Heat transfer fluids > Ink/pigment applications > Insecticides > Lamp fuel > Lube oil additives > Magnetic media > Metal processing > Plastic additive/plasticizer > Phosphor/luminescent > Process solvent > Textile industry chemicals > Thickeners > > The chemical industry depends on supplies of oils as feedstocks for > the manufacture of thousands of products which contribute to the > comfort and convenience of our modern lifestyle. > > I have researched and found that it is reported we as a planet, > have 40 years left of oil, 60 years of natural gas, and 200 years > of coal (at present consumption rates) The USA has the largest coal > reserves in the world. Diesel made from coal or natural gas using > the Fischer-Tropsch method, is ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) This > is where biodiesel comes in, as I'm sure most of you know, > providing the lubricity that is absent after the sulphur is removed. > > Let us try and work together and be thankful for the fossil fuels > we have. Alternative energy is a small part of our national energy > requirement and of course we should do all we can to increase that > amount. We should however, be practical, think before we speak and > look at the big picture of where all the contributors fit in. > > Go well, > > Ashley Silva > Sanford, NC. > > -- Forrest English _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From bknighton at nc.rr.com Wed May 10 23:24:14 2006 From: bknighton at nc.rr.com (Bill Knighton) Date: Thu May 11 08:02:16 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Us and them" Message-ID: <4462A04E.9050204@nc.rr.com> I applaud the big tent tone Ashley Silva post and I agree petroleum has valuable uses. I disagree with some of the post, though. > We need to be working together as we will never be able to do without oil/natural gas/coal. Never goes too far. We will be doing without it when it's gone. People on the list are experimenting and communicating about the success they are finding in replacements. Along the way it seems fitting to flame elements that are grossly exacerbating the oil dependence. Some are popularizing home built biodiesel reactors and feedstock methods and others (General Motors for example) are finding how they can coax 1000 horsepower out of a Cadillac prototype. Some will be producing and selling B100 and biomass derived ethanol while Dodge is producing a 500 hp "hemi" engined pickup and creating a market for it with excessive advertising. I don't want them in my tent. I'd rather they fell into a deep hole. The list you provided of valuable petro-products is a useful reminder how far we have to go but it is encouraging also. All of the items on the list will be replaced by renewables eventually. Some in the short term, possibly. I think I could do without petroleum based food additives right now, for example. I'm sure there are all kinds of innocent and surprising substances that make it into everyday foods, but let's sacrifice just a little. One example is in soybean products. Get them with expeller pressed oil instead of hexane processed. Better stores like Whole Foods carry brands that tell you how their soy oil is produced. Pay a little more. Paints, lamp oils, plastics, adhesives....there are plenty of potential and even ready marketed solutions that are plant oil based. > Diesel made from coal or natural gas using the Fischer-Tropsch > method, is ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) This is where biodiesel comes in, > as I'm sure most of you know, providing the lubricity that is absent after > the sulphur is removed. I think it's the other way around. Biodiesel or vegetable oil is the main ingredient and a small percentage of petrochemicals used in production or for anti-gelling or whatever can be tolerated temporarily until replacements are found. Looking forward to a process that converts coal to diesel and liberates more CO2 seems a dismal future. If the good of biodiesel is as a token additive for coal diesel then I ask why bother? From hogarth at gmail.com Thu May 11 10:02:55 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Thu May 11 09:10:49 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Us and them" In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c67498$da58edf0$0201a8c0@dap811a019a040> Message-ID: <3889aa560605110602ue254056p920becd6846ec41b@mail.gmail.com> On 5/10/06, Forrest English wrote: > ... I hate to break it to you, but the "comfort and convenience of our > modern lifestyle" ain't sustainable. That remains to be seen. It's quite likely that we could live both more comfortably/conveniently and more sustainably. Some folks seem wedded to the idea of discomfort/inconvenience as virtuous; perhaps it's a remnant of our puritan heritage. > I think it's possible to have > a very comfortable existence without most of the crap you're talkin > about. Please understand that both 'comfort' and 'crap' are highly subjective descriptors. You may be fine living in a world without rayon (for instance), but for me, it would be a much poorer world. -- Susan Hogarth | colliething.com NC Ballot Access Coalition http://www.ncballotaccess.org From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu May 11 10:05:46 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu May 11 09:11:12 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Article about biodiesel in Charlotte Message-ID: <6777AC08-ADAA-4807-A65B-26625F071064@blast.com> Seeking support for use of biodiesel http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/14541868.htm On the rise nationally, use of vegetable oil fuel slow to catch on locally KERRY HALL I pull up to the service station bay around 7 p.m. Monday and park in front of a row of rusting sedans. George, who organized the evening's meeting, stops tinkering under the hood of a Ford truck and welcomes me inside. "I'm so glad you could come," he says as he pours sand over fresh oil spots. "We want to get the word out to everyone in Charlotte. What we're a part of here is a real grass-roots movement." During the past few months, George has held weekly meetings in northwest Charlotte for people interested in biodiesel. Biodiesel is a vegetable oil-based fuel that can burn in diesel engines and oil-fired home furnaces. It can be made from soy, peanut or canola oil or recycled fryer oil from restaurants. There is no petroleum in it. Interest in biodiesel has sprouted nationally as energy prices have spiked, giving rise to a cottage industry of people brewing their own fuel. Concern about dwindling energy supplies and reliance on foreign nations has also drawn supporters. Nationally, biodiesel is the country's fastest growing alternative fuel, with U.S. sales tripling annually to reach 75 million gallons, according to the Energy Department. Still, biodiesel only accounts for 1 percent of diesel fuel sold nationwide, according to the National Biodiesel Board, a trade association. North Carolina is home to a handful of biodiesel cooperatives, including one in Asheville and another in Burlington. But the movement has been slow to catch on in Charlotte, those familiar with the industry say. George, who won't give his last name, says the group operates on a first-name basis. It's still only loosely organized and figuring out what it needs to do to comply with regulations. He wants to create a cooperative where members invest time and money in exchange for fuel. Attendance at his weekly meetings has varied, he says. Once, 16 people came. On Monday, five did, excluding me. Attendees bring their own chairs. It's hard to find biodiesel supporters, and startup cash, in a banking town, George says, adding "you can't get the money because it's not mainstream." George learned about biodiesel a year and a half ago when he attended a seminar on the topic sponsored by Central Carolina Community College and Piedmont Biofuels, both in Pittsboro. Conference sponsors hooked him up with fellow biodiesel enthusiasts Melvin and Stuart, also in the Charlotte area. Together, the three men invested about $5,000 to build a prototype biodiesel processor. "I love the idea of taking what is currently a waste product and turning it into something useful," George says. At Monday's meeting, the five attendees, all men, arrange chairs in a circle inside the service station bay. George, a muscular man with tanned, grease-stained hands, gray curls and brown eyes, sits on a bar stool. I ask people why they came. All said they want to save money on energy costs. They also like the idea of creating their own fuel, of not being dependent on Big Oil. Jim, a retiree sporting a rugby shirt, says his curiosity simply was piqued when he read a flyer advertising the meeting. Dave, who owns his own sales business, spends $80 a day on petroleum diesel. "Because I'm self-employed, it's killing me," he says. Excluding startup costs, people can make biodiesel for between 50 cents and $1.50 a gallon, according to Blue Ridge Biofuels, the Asheville cooperative. Lowell, who drives a gasoline-powered pickup, says he started paying serious attention to biodiesel when fuel prices spiked last year. He plans on driving to Charleston this weekend to pick up a diesel Suburban, "a real truck," which he will repair himself. "I'd love to just go offline," he says. Don, the youngest of the group with wavy blond hair, adds: "I like not having to pay a tax on fuel." (The government taxes biodiesel sold at retail.) George starts the meeting explaining how he learned of biodiesel. Oil rhythmically drips from a nearby truck into a pan while gasoline fumes waft by. We walk to the back of the service station bay. Beneath the hum of fluorescent lights, we admire George's prototype processor, a web of barrels, plastic tubes, pumps and buckets connected to a hot water heater. A vat holds waste vegetable oil, or "WVO" in biodiesel lingo. George filters the oil a number of times, using sheets to strain out cornmeal and flour. He prefers oil that was used to fry vegetables or fish because animal fats can cause problems during processing. George is looking for a permanent home for the processor. Ideally, he'd like to find 20 people willing to invest $500 each to support a site and the power and labor necessary to process enough fuel for members, possibly about 10,000 gallons a year. "Ladies and gentleman, we have..." George said as he lifted a lid to reveal a vat of creamy white goo. George stuck his finger into the glop. "A very fine soap," he said, laughing. "It's a bad batch." The lightheartedness aside, the men are concerned the government could create problems for those who home-brew biodiesel. There's an attitude among the group that the U.S. government is allied too closely with oil concerns. Paul Beaton, a partner with the Blue Ridge Biofuels cooperative, said that it can be difficult for small groups to enter the energy industry and that backyard brewers tend to shun publicity. "There's no guide out there to help you," he said, referring to the maze of taxes, permits and licenses involved. Blue Ridge Biofuels was started by a few guys brewing biodiesel in their backyard and today sells biodiesel at a retail pump. George also has big dreams involving biodiesel. He'd like to create a nonprofit group where he can repair diesel-powered cars and give them to people who can't afford to buy their own. But that's for the future. For now, he'll hold his weekly meetings and hope people come. "I'll keep meeting to see if something gels," he said. -- Kerry Hall: (704) 358-5085; khall@charlotteobserver.com Examples of Alternative Fuels ? Biodiesel: A vegetable oil-based fuel usually made from soy or canola oil, or from recycled fryer oil. ? Ethanol: An alcohol-based fuel produced by fermenting and distilling starch crops, such as corn.? Methanol: Also known as wood alcohol, can be used as an alternative fuel in flexible fuel vehicles that run on M85 (a blend of 85 percent methanol and 15 percent gasoline). However, it is not commonly used because automakers are no longer supplying methanol- powered vehicles. ? Vegetable oil-fueled cars: Diesel-powered cars can be converted to run on unprocessed vegetable oil. This is different than biodiesel, which can be made from vegetable oil. -- SOURCE: U.S. Energy Department Growing Business While many biodiesel producers remain backyard operations, the number of commercial producers in North Carolina is about to take off. Currently, North Carolina is home to one commercially operating biodiesel plant. Six more are scheduled to come on line in the next few years. -- SOURCE: Blue Ridge Biofuels How Much Does It Cost? Retail prices for biodiesel can vary widely, depending on where the fuel is produced, said Paul Beaton, partner with Blue Ridge Biofuels in Asheville.Blue Ridge Biofuels currently sells its biodiesel for $3.30 a gallon at its retail pump in Asheville. Friday's average U.S. retail price for regular diesel was $2.97. Beaton said he knows of a producer selling biodiesel for $2.53 a gallon near Atlanta. Typically, prices will range from costing a quarter less to a quarter more than petroleum diesel. Home-brewers can make biodiesel at a cost ranging from 50 cents a gallon to $1.50 a gallon. Want to Learn How to Home-brew Biodiesel? Blue Ridge Biofuels is hosting a workshop June 10 and 11. Biodiesel expert Maria "Mark" Alovert will provide a mix of lecture and hands-on lab time where students will make biodiesel. The workshop will cover quality control and incorporate "engineered mistakes" from which students can learn. To register, go to: http://girlmark.com/asheville.html or e-mail: classregistration@girlmark.com For more information call: (828) 253-1034 INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE ABOUT GEORGE'S BIODIESEL CO-OP? ? What: The Metrolina Biodiesel Network's weekly meeting. ? When: 7 p.m. Thursdays. ? Where: Gus' Sir Beef at Monroe and Eastway. (No need to bring a chair) ? For more information: www.metrolinabiodiesel.com Kerry Hall From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu May 11 10:12:20 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu May 11 09:14:02 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: VW for sale References: Message-ID: <76AD1372-04EA-4783-96A1-AD846620ECF4@blast.com> Please contact the seller directly. Begin forwarded message: > From: "adrian boggs" > Date: May 10, 2006 11:28:45 PM EDT > > The info on the VW is as follows: > > 1981 VW Rabbit, 4-door, 5-speed, > AC (probably hasn't run in years); heater and fan run strong > As of friday will have four BRAND NEW tires and will be NC road- > inspected next week > 1.6 Non-turbo diesel 4-cyl > 160+k miles > Spare identical motor w/ tranny, probably needs rebuild but > crank spins freely (no seized pistons or bearings), excellent > source for parts like injection pump, head, etc > Runs strong, $900 takes all (including Haynes VW Diesel manual) > > > This car is dark forest green and has only the two front seats > (I got it like that). I have put basically no miles on it since I > bought it, due to school. The interior (what's left of it) has been > cleaned out, as most of it has rotted away. It still has the dash, > front seats, carpet and interior door panels. This vehicle is > destined to be a work car or a co-op grease goat. Most of the door > handles work and I have cleaned and lubed the window regulators to > get them moving again. This will be a good project/conversion car, > and would be best suited to hauling things around, since there are > no back seats. At some point down the road it will need new axles, > but since they are bolt-on shafts (no draining the tranny), that > will be a simple task. It smokes a bit on start-up, but after about > 30 seconds the idle levels out, the smoke clears and it runs > beautifully. This is one of two identical cars that I bought > together and I am including the engine from the other one as a > spare (if desired). If a buyer want the car but not the motor, the > price stays the same. > I don't have much wiggle room at all on the price since I am > putting brand new rubber on it and getting it past the safety > inspection. It was not inspected when I bought it, and had not been > for years. The tires that were on it shredded themselves to death > on I-40 on the way home (dry rot), so I guess I'm lucky to still be > talking. All told, for the budget-conscious, tinkering biodieselist > type, this will be a great way to get a cheap, inspected and > running diesel car that gets 50 mpg and has a spare motor. > Please feel free to post this email to the list to spare you > from retyping this exercise in creative writing. I can be reached > at (919) 608-1642. For those that don't know, the car is in > Greensboro at my apartment near UNCG. I'd be happy to provide > directions, as my place is easy to find. Thank you so much and I > look forward to getting together again sometime! > > Adrian > From francismiller at comcast.net Wed May 10 19:21:06 2006 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis Miller) Date: Thu May 11 09:14:32 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Hijacking of Site by Politicos Message-ID: <44628372.9060708@comcast.net> Ashley: Before I received your email I had responded directly to two people who had used the site to rant and rave about their political views. I appreciate your willlingness to express your opinion in a rational way. I agree that a solution will require a multi-pronged approach and will involve a transition over time. Biodiesel is just one part of the puzzle. Solar obviously has to be a big part. Those people who try to hijack the site for their personal soapbox need to be met with a swift and firm reaction. Best regards, Fran Miller, Denver, CO P.S. I continue to be favorably impressed with the enthusiasm of the people in North Carolina. I do not know of another state or region that has become a nexus of biodiesel the way North Carolinians have. From biodiesel at yovo.info Thu May 11 10:58:26 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Thu May 11 09:14:40 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] "Us and them" In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c67498$da58edf0$0201a8c0@dap811a019a040> Message-ID: <44634302.4040204@yovo.info> Seems to me that there is a fair amount of dogma on both sides of this argument. I am not keen on going back to pre-industrial life styles (and I HAVE had a taste of what that's like). The petro-chem industry has contributed greatly to public health, mobility and information infrastructure - to name a few. But it is also an exploitative, power-hungry industry that is based on an unsustainable product (petroleum) and on unsustainable economic and political principles (short-sighted capitalism and corruption). As a biofuels enthusiast, I want to: - conserve energy - minimize petroleum usage - use sustainable, non-petro fuels - decentralize energy production - fairly share available resources These ideas fundamentally subvert everything the petro-chem industrial complex stands for: - sell more product - sell MORE product MORE profitably - destroy competitors (or buy them) - control energy production - maximize shareholder value So forgive me for my perception of the petro-chem industrial complex as the evil robber barons of the industrial age. But the irreparable damage they have done to our planet and to society overshadows the progress this technology has fostered. Petroleum is a vital and mostly depleted resource. It needs careful and fair stewardship, not greedy exploitation. Grease for Peace! Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forrest English wrote: > Ashley, > > Sounds like you're one of them. > > "We will never be able to do without oil/natural gas/coal." Strange, I > seem to recall people living pre-industrial revolution. Which history > book have you been using? > > For that matter... I'll go down your list. > * asphalt: Since I don't think we'll have the energy resources to > support vast fleets of motor vehicles, this seems like a non issue to me. > * heavy furnace oils: SVO is a lot like Fuel Oil that large ships use. > They heat fuel oil to 120 F so that it can flow, and it doesn't clog the > injectors. To start and shutdown, they use Diesel. Biodiesel could be > used in place of that. In fact, it's almost exactly like a 2 tank SVO > system. > * alcohols: Ethanol has been around for a looooong time. I hear that > people even know how to make it! There is also organic derived methanol > * ethylene: Plastics manufacturing shouldn't require this anymore, > more on plastics. > * waxes: Heard of bees? > * paraffins: Biofuels can be used in place of kerosene, granted the use > of biofuels in colder climates requires some more creative engineering, > but there are people that run B100 in very cold places by using heating > elements rigged to their battery systems. > * plastics: There are plant based plastics, it's here and now. > * synthetic oils: Why not use non-synthetic oils? Triglycerides are > here to stay. > * synthetic rubber: Non-synthetic rubbers, what is this a trick question? > * fertilizers: Have you ever heard of manure or compost? Holy crap, my > garden loves it. > * pesticides: Organic farming is a proven reality, it works well and > tastes good. Loses less of our valuable topsoil and less pollutants too. > * explosives: I'm still trying to figure out a use for explosives that > is environmentally and socially responsible in the long run. So I'm not > real concerned about this one frankly. > > I hate to break it to you, but the "comfort and convenience of our > modern lifestyle" ain't sustainable. I think it's possible to have a > very comfortable existence without most of the crap you're talkin about. > > On May 10, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Ashley Silva wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> I have been receiving email from this forum for some time now and am >> saddened that there seems to be an "us and them" mentality - "us" >> being people interested in biodiesel and alternative fuels, and "them" >> being everyone else - namely, anyone associated with "big oil", the >> petrochemical industry or it's products. >> >> We need to be working together as we will never be able to do without >> oil/natural gas/coal. A lot of people can't answer the question when >> asked... "where would we get, asphalt, heavy furnace oils, alcohols, >> ethylene, waxes, paraffins, plastics, synthetic oils, synthetic >> rubber, fertilizers, pesticides, explosives, from, if not from "fossil >> fuels". >> >> Oil/coal/natural gas gives us chemicals for: >> >> Abrasives >> Adhesives >> Agricultural products >> Amines >> Cardboard/paper industry >> Catalysts >> Ceramic/refractory industry >> Cleaning agents/surfactants >> Coating/paint applications >> Corrosion/rust inhibitor >> Cosmetics/toiletries >> Crystal growth >> Floor care products >> Fluorescent lamp coatings >> Food/flavor/fragrance/pharmaceutical >> Hair care/personal care/skin care >> Heat transfer fluids >> Ink/pigment applications >> Insecticides >> Lamp fuel >> Lube oil additives >> Magnetic media >> Metal processing >> Plastic additive/plasticizer >> Phosphor/luminescent >> Process solvent >> Textile industry chemicals >> Thickeners >> >> The chemical industry depends on supplies of oils as feedstocks for >> the manufacture of thousands of products which contribute to the >> comfort and convenience of our modern lifestyle. >> >> I have researched and found that it is reported we as a planet, have >> 40 years left of oil, 60 years of natural gas, and 200 years of coal >> (at present consumption rates) The USA has the largest coal reserves >> in the world. Diesel made from coal or natural gas using the >> Fischer-Tropsch method, is ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD) This is >> where biodiesel comes in, as I'm sure most of you know, providing the >> lubricity that is absent after the sulphur is removed. >> >> Let us try and work together and be thankful for the fossil fuels we >> have. Alternative energy is a small part of our national energy >> requirement and of course we should do all we can to increase that >> amount. We should however, be practical, think before we speak and >> look at the big picture of where all the contributors fit in. >> >> Go well, >> >> Ashley Silva >> Sanford, NC. >> >> > > -- > Forrest English > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From dentonconrad at netzero.net Thu May 11 13:23:41 2006 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad) Date: Thu May 11 15:59:24 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] UI researcher makes crude oil from pig manure Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20060511122238.017d1128@pop.netzero.net> UI researcher makes crude oil from pig manure - "Zhang's fuel behaves like diesel." http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/state/14449289.htm From john.bonitz at gmail.com Thu May 11 16:11:40 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Thu May 11 16:21:22 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] political beliefs and biofuels Message-ID: <84a57a420605111211n458a4421lbe510101cf0bcf9@mail.gmail.com> Fran wrote: Cheryl: It seems almost pathological that people have to insert their political beliefs into the discussion assuming everyone is liberal democratic. If you want to rant about big oil and the current administration at EPA start your own site. I for one find it irritating. Fran Miller, Denver. ****************** Dear Fran, I'm sympathetic to your point. It's a rather awkward situation we find on this list, because the discussion of biofuels is inextricably tied to current politics. I'm sorry you find it irritating to hear hard-nosed assessments of the current administration. But I could easily find a conservative Republican to say the exact same thing Cheryl said. ...My 75 year old father (a retired construction executive) voted for Republican Senator Jesse Helms every chance he had: He often recognizes this administration's bias for Big Oil. Of course, his idea of conservatism is to drive a fuel-efficient, money-saving car. I'm reminded of the jokes about the mass media being branded by our White House staff as the "reality-based-community." Sadly, our current president has as much to do with conservatism as GM has to do with environmental ethics. I think realistic assessments of policy priorities are important to a productive discussion of biofuels, and the related topic of vehicular energy efficiency. Sincerely, -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC From debra_lea at hotmail.com Thu May 11 13:17:42 2006 From: debra_lea at hotmail.com (Debra Gomes) Date: Thu May 11 16:21:49 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Hello from California Message-ID: Hello, My name is Debra and my family and I are in the process of moving from California to the Raleigh area (house is just entering escrow). I found your website and I wanted to thank you all for the great information. We are considering purchasing an older Mercedes and turning it into a veggie car (actually we will pay to have the kit installed as we aren't that mechanically inclined:-) Before we make the purchase, I wanted to know if their are many mechanics in the area that can work on a car with a conversion kit. Also, we are thinking about purchasing the car out here before we move since they seem more readily available. But, we don't want to do the conversion until we arrive in the area. We would rather have someone who installs the kitsbe local and able to "tweak" as necessary. I'm just looking for some info and reassurance. Will the kits work with any diesel mercedes we choose? Will their be amble people around to answer questions and fix the kit as needed? Any advice as we start car shopping? Thanks so very much. Can't wait to get to NC! Debra From aibodkin at gmail.com Thu May 11 18:47:21 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Thu May 11 16:44:40 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] political beliefs and biofuels In-Reply-To: <84a57a420605111211n458a4421lbe510101cf0bcf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a57a420605111211n458a4421lbe510101cf0bcf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "..I'm sympathetic to your point. It's a rather awkward situation we find on this list, because the discussion of biofuels is inextricably tied to current politics.." I think that is a pretty fair assessment. It doesn't matter which administration is/was in the Whitehouse, common knowledge has it that subsidies to "Big Oil" have been deemed a "necessity". And if the deregulation of the Power industry is any indication of things to come, pulling those subsidies might do more harm than good...(see California rolling brown outs) Better watch out though Fran, the rumor is Colorado is turning Blue, North Carolina is hard ? Red - all day long :0) Saluda Andy On 5/11/06, John Bonitz wrote: > Fran wrote: > > Cheryl: > It seems almost pathological that people have to insert their > political beliefs into the discussion assuming everyone is liberal > democratic. If you want to rant about big oil and the current > administration at EPA start your own site. I for one find it > irritating. Fran Miller, Denver. > > ****************** > > Dear Fran, > > I'm sympathetic to your point. It's a rather awkward situation we > find on this list, because the discussion of biofuels is inextricably > tied to current politics. I'm sorry you find it irritating to hear > hard-nosed assessments of the current administration. > > But I could easily find a conservative Republican to say the exact > same thing Cheryl said. ...My 75 year old father (a retired > construction executive) voted for Republican Senator Jesse Helms every > chance he had: He often recognizes this administration's bias for Big > Oil. Of course, his idea of conservatism is to drive a > fuel-efficient, money-saving car. > > I'm reminded of the jokes about the mass media being branded by our > White House staff as the "reality-based-community." Sadly, our > current president has as much to do with conservatism as GM has to do > with environmental ethics. > > I think realistic assessments of policy priorities are important to a > productive discussion of biofuels, and the related topic of vehicular > energy efficiency. > > Sincerely, > > -- > John Bonitz > Silk Hope, NC > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From wrightjim at gmail.com Fri May 12 10:10:01 2006 From: wrightjim at gmail.com (Jim Wright) Date: Fri May 12 08:07:18 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] article about biodiesel from sewage Message-ID: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10381404 this was posted on slashdot...so you can read the always intellectually stimulating discussion there, if you wish ;) http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/12/0215234&from=rss -- Jim Wright Wright Business Solutions wrightjim@gmail.com 919-417-2257 From ntnth at care2.com Fri May 12 10:17:49 2006 From: ntnth at care2.com (Chris Smith) Date: Fri May 12 08:15:10 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please unsubscribe Message-ID: <0D79DEA4E993D3C43A9C6557DD9C847C@ntnth.care2.com> i love it but its too much. Care2 make the world greener! More than 300,000 seals could be killed in Canada this year - most of them babies. Tell Canada's Prime Minister to stop the hunt now! http://go.care2.com/stophunt http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps nonprofits. From hogarth at gmail.com Fri May 12 10:23:26 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Fri May 12 08:20:42 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] political beliefs and biofuels In-Reply-To: References: <84a57a420605111211n458a4421lbe510101cf0bcf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3889aa560605120623u15ac2eaam3b4745e91314696d@mail.gmail.com> On 5/11/06, A Bodkin wrote: > ... > I think that is a pretty fair assessment. It doesn't matter which > administration is/was in the Whitehouse, common knowledge has it that > subsidies to "Big Oil" have been deemed a "necessity". How true! Sitting here as a Libertarian listening to the whole red/blue thing play out yet again, I am - as always - struck by how little difference in practice there is between Republicans and Democrats, and how the closer they become in policy the more heated the rhetoric becomes. Big business in America - contrary to common belief - *loves* regulation and often obligingly writes it up for politicians so they can say they are Doing Something. The benefit for business? Keeping the little, leaner competitors out: competitiors such as biofuels (except those which manage to buy their own subsidies, such as ethanol), competitors such as wind and solar and forms of energy we don't even know about but would be seeing if government wasn't the mob enforcing the will of big business. People who think that getting their gang in will make things better because their gang has a 'better idea for government' are thinking wishfully. Government is *by nature* a bad idea - it is one group of people forcing (not persuading) people to do things simply because the first group believes it knows best. If you think you know what's best for other people and you are willing to use force to get them to accept your wisdom, government is for you. If you believe that people should control their own destiny regardless of your opinion of their actions (as long as they are not harming anyone), then you should strive to minimize the influence of government - not harness it to your desires. > And if the > deregulation of the Power industry is any indication of things to > come, pulling those subsidies might do more harm than good...(see > California rolling brown outs) Deregulation is a bastardized word these days and bears no relationship to the concept of 'removing regulation'. It should be stressed that what is -sold- as 'deregulation' is actually 'reregulation' or even 'extra regulation'. Deregulation means getting government OUT of business, not simply having a different gang of government thugs writing the regulation. It's a shell game (or myabe I should say it's a Shell Oil game) - one gang promises to reform the excesses of other, while not mentioning that their own agenda includes even more excesses of a slightly different nature. The winners, of course, are the pupetteers behind the whole thing, and those people aren't loyal to any political party. They are just as happy to use Democrats as Republicans - happier, really, I suspect, because they are more easily manipulated. -- Susan Hogarth | colliething.com NC Ballot Access Coalition http://www.ncballotaccess.org From bodefamily at mindspring.com Fri May 12 13:31:29 2006 From: bodefamily at mindspring.com (bode) Date: Fri May 12 11:28:45 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please unsubscribe me Message-ID: <26326590.1147451490026.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From john.bonitz at gmail.com Fri May 12 14:16:36 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Fri May 12 12:13:52 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] concerned about imported biofuels? Message-ID: <84a57a420605121016i631c5b18u409d086efdabd07d@mail.gmail.com> For those who are really upset about tropical rainforests being leveled for oil-palm plantations for biodiesel, here is something to read. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ********************************** NEWS FROM THE AMERICAN CORN GROWERS ASSOCIATION 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 911, Washington, DC 20036 For Immediate Release Contact: Larry Mitchell (202) 835-0330 www.acga.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Administration's Plans to Import Ethanol Too Expensive for Farmers, Taxpayers and Consumers Imported Ethanol Drives Down Corn Prices and Drives Up Federal Spending WASHINGTON, May 11, 2006 ? Importation of ethanol into the United States will be very costly to U.S. farmers, taxpayers and consumers according to the American Corn Growers Association (ACGA). "We are very alarmed by recent announcements from the Bush administration that they want to suspend the current import tariff on ethanol and are looking for ways to increase ethanol imports to the United States," declared Larry Mitchell, ACGA's Chief Executive. "Importing ethanol is not the proper course to treat what the President diagnosed as an 'addiction to imported oil." "Our analysis of the issues reveals that every billion gallons of ethanol imported displaces approximately 357 million bushels of U.S. raised corn," explained Mitchell. "The Department of Agriculture is already projecting a huge surplus of corn for this year as it is. The current projected surplus, estimated at almost 2 billion bushels (or about almost 20 percent of one year's crop), is already suppressing cash prices for corn paid to our farm families. The addition of 357 million bushels to the surplus will reduce corn prices another 6 cents per bushel ? or about $666 million out of the pockets of our farmers." "Under the current farm program, taxpayers will be asked to pay for most of the $666 million in farm income loss due to every billion gallons of ethanol imported," added Mitchell. "Such federal spending will further deepen the national debt, and will further threaten the political sustainability of current farm programs." Mitchell also explained that the cost of importing ethanol goes well beyond the cost to farmers and the farm program. "The president also wants to suspend or eliminate the 54-cent per gallon import tariff on ethanol and pay the 51-cent per gallon blenders tax credit to gasoline distributors on the imported ethanol. In all, we figure that the President's plan will cost the taxpayers approximately $1.7 billion for every billion gallons of imported ethanol. That is $1.70 per gallon to be paid by the taxpayers PLUS consumers will still have to pay the gasoline companies for the fuel at the pump at today's high prices. The total cost could exceed $5 per gallon!" ACGA opposes the President's plan to suspend or eliminate the ethanol import tariff and further recommends the following changes be made to current federal laws to guarantee that Congress's original objectives for the nation's biofuel industry are met; + Imported biofuels should not be allowed to count toward the newly enacted Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), + IRS code should not allow biofuel tax incentives for imported biofuels, + All biofuels should be labeled at the pump as to its country of origin, + Imported biofuels should be held to the same high quality standards as domestically produced biofuels, and + The current tariffs on imported ethanol, established to allow the U.S. to develop a domestic biofuels industry, must be retained. The American Corn Growers Association represents 14,000 members in 35 states. See www.acga.org . -30- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe - Email to: acganewsletter@acga.org Type "unsubscribe" in the Subject Line From soozie at solarenergy.org Fri May 12 12:46:47 2006 From: soozie at solarenergy.org (soozie@solarenergy.org) Date: Fri May 12 12:36:24 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please unsubscribe Message-ID: <446475A7.3198.6D2C82@soozie.solarenergy.org> please unsubscribe me! I love you all and whatnot, but i can't handle the influx of emails. Bye now, soozie ================================ Soozie Lindbloom, Coordinator Solar in the Schools Solar Energy International 76 South 2nd Street (shipping) PO Box 715 Carbondale, CO 81623 (970) 963-8855, fax: (970) 963-8866 soozie@solarenergy.org www.solarenergy.org "Creating the world we want is a much more subtle but more powerful mode of operation than destroying the one we don't want." -Marianne Williamson From hogarth at gmail.com Fri May 12 14:50:21 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Fri May 12 12:47:36 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] DIY guide to getting off the list Message-ID: <3889aa560605121050m2c65d9cfv7a388495cf2c3778@mail.gmail.com> For those of you leaving the list because there is too much discussion, you can accomplish your goal *and* leave less 'noise' for the rest of us by going to the link at the bottom of each post to unsubscribe yourself: http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group Scroll to the bottom for the 'unsubscribe' field. Thanks for this courtesy! -- Susan Hogarth | colliething.com NC Ballot Access Coalition http://www.ncballotaccess.org From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org Fri May 12 16:18:43 2006 From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Clifford Dyer) Date: Fri May 12 14:16:15 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Unsubscribing. Message-ID: <20060512191843.GA22711@sdf.lonestar.org> As Susan pointed out, you can unsubscribe from the list by going to the website. Alternatively, if you send an email with only the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject linke (just like that--all capitalized), it will unsubscribe you and not post the message to the list. That works with pretty much every mailing list I've ever been on. Cheers, Cliff From aibodkin at gmail.com Fri May 12 17:57:06 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Fri May 12 18:54:20 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: concerned about imported biofuels? In-Reply-To: <84a57a420605121016i631c5b18u409d086efdabd07d@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a57a420605121016i631c5b18u409d086efdabd07d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This is a prime exampleof how politics and biofuels integrate. It is very rare that I can't find "something nice to say" ... this is one of thosetimes... On 5/12/06, John Bonitz wrote: > For those who are really upset about tropical rainforests being > leveled for oil-palm plantations for biodiesel, here is something to > read. > -- > John Bonitz > Silk Hope, NC > > ********************************** > > NEWS FROM THE AMERICAN CORN GROWERS ASSOCIATION > 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 911, Washington, DC 20036 > For Immediate Release > Contact: Larry Mitchell (202) 835-0330 > www.acga.org > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Administration's Plans to Import Ethanol > Too Expensive for Farmers, Taxpayers and Consumers > > Imported Ethanol Drives Down Corn > Prices and Drives Up Federal Spending > > WASHINGTON, May 11, 2006 ? Importation of ethanol into the United > States will be very costly to U.S. farmers, taxpayers and consumers > according to the American Corn Growers Association (ACGA). > > "We are very alarmed by recent announcements from the Bush > administration that they want to suspend the current import tariff on > ethanol and are looking for ways to increase ethanol imports to the > United States," declared Larry Mitchell, ACGA's Chief Executive. > "Importing ethanol is not the proper course to treat what the > President diagnosed as an 'addiction to imported oil." > > "Our analysis of the issues reveals that every billion gallons of > ethanol imported displaces approximately 357 million bushels of U.S. > raised corn," explained Mitchell. "The Department of Agriculture is > already projecting a huge surplus of corn for this year as it is. The > current projected surplus, estimated at almost 2 billion bushels (or > about almost 20 percent of one year's crop), is already suppressing > cash prices for corn paid to our farm families. The addition of 357 > million bushels to the surplus will reduce corn prices another 6 cents > per bushel ? or about $666 million out of the pockets of our farmers." > > "Under the current farm program, taxpayers will be asked to pay for > most of the $666 million in farm income loss due to every billion > gallons of ethanol imported," added Mitchell. "Such federal spending > will further deepen the national debt, and will further threaten the > political sustainability of current farm programs." > > Mitchell also explained that the cost of importing ethanol goes well > beyond the cost to farmers and the farm program. "The president also > wants to suspend or eliminate the 54-cent per gallon import tariff on > ethanol and pay the 51-cent per gallon blenders tax credit to gasoline > distributors on the imported ethanol. In all, we figure that the > President's plan will cost the taxpayers approximately $1.7 billion > for every billion gallons of imported ethanol. That is $1.70 per > gallon to be paid by the taxpayers PLUS consumers will still have to > pay the gasoline companies for the fuel at the pump at today's high > prices. The total cost could exceed $5 per gallon!" > > ACGA opposes the President's plan to suspend or eliminate the ethanol > import tariff and further recommends the following changes be made to > current federal laws to guarantee that Congress's original objectives > for the nation's biofuel industry are met; > > + Imported biofuels should not be allowed to count toward the newly > enacted Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), > + IRS code should not allow biofuel tax incentives for imported biofuels, > + All biofuels should be labeled at the pump as to its country of origin, > + Imported biofuels should be held to the same high quality standards > as domestically produced biofuels, and > + The current tariffs on imported ethanol, established to allow the > U.S. to develop a domestic biofuels industry, must be retained. > > The American Corn Growers Association represents 14,000 members in 35 > states. See www.acga.org . > > -30- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe - Email to: acganewsletter@acga.org > Type "unsubscribe" in the Subject Line > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From francismiller at comcast.net Fri May 12 05:26:07 2006 From: francismiller at comcast.net (Francis Miller) Date: Fri May 12 18:54:22 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause Message-ID: <446462BF.9080908@comcast.net> I no longer choose to participate in this group. It has been hijacked by individuals with a political agenda who like to hear themselves speaking to the choir. After rereading Orwell's "Animal Farm" I realized there was very little hope of this thing getting back to where alternative fuels were the central issue. An area like biodiesel, by its very nature, tends to attract certain people. Bon voyage. Fran Miller From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org Fri May 12 21:27:49 2006 From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Clifford Dyer) Date: Fri May 12 19:25:16 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause In-Reply-To: <446462BF.9080908@comcast.net> References: <446462BF.9080908@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20060513002749.GA26404@sdf.lonestar.org> I totally hear this. It's not even a left-right issue. It's a bandwidth issue. I come here to get information about biofuels. Naturally, as an emerging technology, it's going to get wrapped up in politics at times, but biofuels are embraced by Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Greens, and who knows what other party members, not to mention independents. On a list this size, we need to make sure we are staying on subject, so people get what they came here for. Namely, a good, solid, supportive biofuels community discussing (can you believe it?) biofuels. We just had several folks bow out of the list because we're getting out of hand. Anyone else want to get back on track? How should we do this? Moderate the list, like Gene does with the Chatham Chatlist (sorry to you non-Chatham County folks for the probably obscure reference)? It may be a big commitment to do so. What about just coming up with a good set of guidelines, which we all agree to live by, and gently reminding folks who don't stick to them? Or do we think that just seeing these good folks leave will be enough of a reminder for us? Just my two cents. Cheers, Cliff On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 04:26:07AM -0600, Francis Miller wrote regarding [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause: > Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 04:26:07 -0600 > From: Francis Miller > To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause > > I no longer choose to participate in this group. It has been hijacked by > individuals with a political agenda who like to hear themselves speaking > to the choir. After rereading Orwell's "Animal Farm" I realized there > was very little hope of this thing getting back to where alternative > fuels were the central issue. An area like biodiesel, by its very > nature, tends to attract certain people. Bon voyage. Fran Miller > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri May 12 21:46:49 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri May 12 19:44:09 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause In-Reply-To: <20060513002749.GA26404@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <446462BF.9080908@comcast.net> <20060513002749.GA26404@sdf.lonestar.org> Message-ID: <76874D8A-DF29-407E-817B-31EF884CE093@blast.com> These are the list guidelines... please try not to stray too far: Welcome to the BIOFUELS INTEREST GROUP listserve. We think it is BIG! This group is here for you, so feel free to ask any question or to discuss anything biofuel related. But before you post, please take a few minutes to read the following rules and guidelines about posting on this listserve. By being mindful of the rules, everyone can have a good time talking about biofuels. The normal rules of civil discourse and netiquette apply to users of the BIG list: Edit your replies. When replying to a previous post, select the meaningful portions, and quote from it, but do not include the entire text in your reply. Use ?in-line,? rather than using ?on-top? responses. Example: Quote from post --your reply Quote from post --your reply ?On-top? responses tend to reverse the conversation, make things exceedingly hard to follow and are commonly ignored by many subscribers Provide links instead of whole articles. If your post is of interest, the reader can link out to it and enjoy it with a browser, rather than using their mail client. Not all text formats appear correctly in all mail clients. Formatting problems can be eliminated by providing links. Keep advertisements to a minimum. A lot of diesel vehicles are traded on this list, which is fine, but the number of posts selling goods and services should be proportional to other contributions you make to the conversation. This is not a commercial list. No inappropriate language or subject matter will be tolerated. If you chose to post something that is inappropriate, you will be permanently banned from the listserve. No warnings will be given. If you have a question about what is inappropriate and what is not, please ask before you post and we will be happy to guide you on this matter. Please try to keep your ?signature? to a minimum. It is extremely difficult to follow posts with short messages and really long signatures. Also, high graphic signatures eat up a lot of bandwidth and slow things down. If you have signatures that fit either of these descriptions, we ask that you modify them when using this list. Please stay on-topic or your post will be deleted. Please keep your post to the topics listed above. Casual conversations between posters will be deleted without notice. We do not use ?chat room? or ?short- cut English" on this list. Posts using, for example, "kewl," "u" for "you," or no capitalization or punctuation will be deleted. While it is true that we do ?lyt ? (luv ya tons), we prefer proper usage. Disagreeing with another poster will inevitably happen. However, ?flaming? another poster will not be tolerated. You can post a dissenting opinion without attacking another poster. If you do, you will be banned. From time to time you will receive messages from the BIG list administrators. These messages will have Please Read in the subject line, and they will notify list users of maintenance, or other issues associated with the list. Please do not post messages directly to the webmaster or administrator. The only exception would be to notify them that there is a technical problem with the list. They are here to make sure things run smoothly and that posters are following the rules -- not to get into discussions/debates with posters. For virus control, the BIG list does not accept attachments. They are stripped off before messages are sent to list members. This way it is not possible to get a virus from the BIG list. From time to time you will receive messages from the BIG list administrators. These messages will have Please Read in the subject line, and they will notify list users of maintenance, or other issues associated with the list. For more information on netiquette, try Ben Goren?s ?Play Nice, Children?: http://www.trumpetpower.com/Rants/Netiquette. We are grateful to Keith Addison for his ?Rules of the List,? which you can visit at: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/000005.html Our goal is to further information sharing about biofuels throughout the Southeast and North Carolina. It is important to have a place to network with others who are producing, using or researching biofuels. Be sure to visit the links and other discussion forums listed below for more helpful information on biodiesel, straight vegetable oil, and other biofuels. Below are some highly recommended resources for learning more: Piedmont Biofuels Energy Blog: www.biofuels.coop/blog Biodiesel Blogs: http://biodieselblogs.truffula.net/ Collaborative Biodiesel Tutorial: www.biodieselcommunity.org Biodiesel Homebrewing Guide available from: www.localb100.com InfoPop Biodiesel Forum Forum for all things Biodiesel: http:// biodiesel.infopop.cc Biodiesel Now A great forum for general biodiesel information: www.biodieselnow.com Other recommended Biofuel discussion Groups: Biodieselbasics: www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biodieselbasics Local B100 Biz Forum of dedicated to biodiesel businesses & regulations: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz Vegoil-Diesel Dedicated to all thing's SVO vegoil- diesel@yahoogroups.com Biofuel mailing list (Journey to Forever.org) Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Thanks for your interest and happy biofueling! Signed, Biofuels Interest Group listserve moderators On May 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, J. Clifford Dyer wrote: > I totally hear this. It's not even a left-right issue. It's a > bandwidth issue. I come here to get information about biofuels. > Naturally, as an emerging technology, it's going to get wrapped up > in politics at times, but biofuels are embraced by Democrats, > Republicans, Libertarians, Greens, and who knows what other party > members, not to mention independents. On a list this size, we need > to make sure we are staying on subject, so people get what they > came here for. Namely, a good, solid, supportive biofuels > community discussing (can you believe it?) biofuels. > > We just had several folks bow out of the list because we're getting > out of hand. Anyone else want to get back on track? How should we > do this? Moderate the list, like Gene does with the Chatham > Chatlist (sorry to you non-Chatham County folks for the probably > obscure reference)? It may be a big commitment to do so. What > about just coming up with a good set of guidelines, which we all > agree to live by, and gently reminding folks who don't stick to > them? Or do we think that just seeing these good folks leave will > be enough of a reminder for us? > > Just my two cents. > > Cheers, > Cliff > > > On Fri, May 12, 2006 at 04:26:07AM -0600, Francis Miller wrote > regarding [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause: >> Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 04:26:07 -0600 >> From: Francis Miller >> To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause >> >> I no longer choose to participate in this group. It has been >> hijacked by >> individuals with a political agenda who like to hear themselves >> speaking >> to the choir. After rereading Orwell's "Animal Farm" I realized there >> was very little hope of this thing getting back to where alternative >> fuels were the central issue. An area like biodiesel, by its very >> nature, tends to attract certain people. Bon voyage. Fran Miller >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From alizard at ecis.com Sat May 13 02:11:46 2006 From: alizard at ecis.com (A.Lizard) Date: Sat May 13 03:09:06 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <20060512234423.8335310F4C2@mail2.blast.com> References: <20060512234423.8335310F4C2@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20060513010934.7bc00c30@mail.ecis.com> At 11:44 PM 5/12/2006, you wrote: If you like the information but don't like the number of e-mails, go to the web unsubscribe address listed elsewhere and change your subscription to digest format, you get ONE or so e-mails a day with all the separate posts in it. That's how I subscribe to *all* my mailing lists. (and if it doesn't permit this, I usually don't subscribe.) A.Lizard >Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 11:46:47 -0600 >From: soozie@solarenergy.org >To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please unsubscribe >Message-ID: <446475A7.3198.6D2C82@soozie.solarenergy.org> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Precedence: list >Message: 1 > >please unsubscribe me! I love you all and whatnot, but i can't handle the >influx of emails. > >Bye now, > >soozie member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild. "You can't have in a democracy various groups with arms - you have to have the state with a monopoly on power." Condoleeza Rice, US Secretary of State Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard business Website http://www.reptilelabs.com backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard@gmail.com PGP 8.0 key available by request or keyserver. Download PGP from: http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy. Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html ***Looking for INTELLIGENT new technology public policy alternatives?*** http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/technology.html From dentonconrad at netzero.net Sat May 13 08:03:54 2006 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton Conrad) Date: Sat May 13 06:01:35 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Simple solution Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20060513065741.00bd2e30@pop.netzero.net> There is a simply solution for handling the off subject tangents that sometimes occur as a result of the mix of politics/environment/biofuels. DO NOT send your replies to the whole group. Send it ONLY to the particular person who posted the email. I found this approach to be a good way to vent and also to get the other person's view. I have found that one can disagree and yet still have a meaningful discourse. From wrenchwench at blast.com Sat May 13 09:58:26 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Sat May 13 07:55:38 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Texas: Chevron Invests in Biodiesel Plant Message-ID: May 12, 2006 - San Francisco Business Times - Oil giant Chevron Corp. said it invested in a Texas company that is building a biodiesel plant with the capacity to produce 100 million gallons per year. That would more than double the current production volume of biodiesel in the United States, the San Ramon company said Thursday. Chevron (NYSE:CVX) didn't say how much it invested in the project.The plant will produce biodiesel from soybeans and other feedstocks. The plan is to sell pure biodiesel or biodiesel blended with off-road or on-road diesel fuel for marine, commercial, trucking and industrial users in Houston and Galveston, Texas. http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2006/05/08/ daily25.html From mwwhiting at fedex.com Sat May 13 10:09:25 2006 From: mwwhiting at fedex.com (Matthew Whiting) Date: Sat May 13 09:06:14 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please unsubscribe References: <446475A7.3198.6D2C82@soozie.solarenergy.org> Message-ID: <4465E895.9489F42A@fedex.com> Same here. thanx, m soozie@solarenergy.org wrote: > please unsubscribe me! I love you all and whatnot, but i can't handle the > influx of emails. > > Bye now, > > soozie > ================================ > Soozie Lindbloom, Coordinator Solar in the Schools > Solar Energy International > 76 South 2nd Street (shipping) > PO Box 715 > Carbondale, CO 81623 > (970) 963-8855, fax: (970) 963-8866 > soozie@solarenergy.org > www.solarenergy.org > > "Creating the world we want is a much more subtle but more > powerful mode of operation than destroying the one we don't > want." -Marianne Williamson > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From mwwhiting at fedex.com Sat May 13 10:13:18 2006 From: mwwhiting at fedex.com (Matthew Whiting) Date: Sat May 13 09:10:05 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause References: <446462BF.9080908@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4465E97E.99BCE8DA@fedex.com> I agree, waaaaaay too much. I am gone also. Take me off the list. M Francis Miller wrote: > I no longer choose to participate in this group. It has been hijacked by > individuals with a political agenda who like to hear themselves speaking > to the choir. After rereading Orwell's "Animal Farm" I realized there > was very little hope of this thing getting back to where alternative > fuels were the central issue. An area like biodiesel, by its very > nature, tends to attract certain people. Bon voyage. Fran Miller > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From tfitznc at bellsouth.net Sat May 13 11:45:20 2006 From: tfitznc at bellsouth.net (tfitznc@bellsouth.net) Date: Sat May 13 09:42:34 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause References: <446462BF.9080908@comcast.net> <4465E97E.99BCE8DA@fedex.com> Message-ID: <001a01c6769b$dc4585b0$210110ac@TERRYLAPTOP> Remove me as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Whiting" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause >I agree, waaaaaay too much. I am gone also. Take me off the list. M > > Francis Miller wrote: > >> I no longer choose to participate in this group. It has been hijacked by >> individuals with a political agenda who like to hear themselves speaking >> to the choir. After rereading Orwell's "Animal Farm" I realized there >> was very little hope of this thing getting back to where alternative >> fuels were the central issue. An area like biodiesel, by its very >> nature, tends to attract certain people. Bon voyage. Fran Miller >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From aibodkin at gmail.com Sat May 13 19:58:05 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Sat May 13 17:55:14 2006 Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_[Biofuels=5FInterest=5FGroup]_Pitfalls?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?,_cuss_words_&_name_calling_encouraged=85?= In-Reply-To: <4460D7E5.4080901@nc.rr.com> References: <4460D7E5.4080901@nc.rr.com> Message-ID: I appreciate all who responded to my "grease generator theory" and well, from the responses I had received, I learned some things. First that the grease generator has already been prototyped and pilot projects have been successful, both locally and globally. Although these were relatively small productions using a "listeroid" and not reaching beyond a few thousand watts it certainly is electrifying (hold your boo's to a dull roar please :0) ), feasibility is proven. Secondly it appears that further progress has, for what ever reason, stalled or at least slowed considerably. And lastly I learned that Bill Knighton appears to be the cross between a geek and an Amish dood...btw Bill I wouldn't expect any corporations to be banging on your door to get the code for your PDA web server...no matter how cool it is, it just ain't happening brother... :0) I have put some thoughts together and covered my trail with hyperlinks and because it has implications other than just the technology, I have dumped it here... http://www.kooktalk.com/ if anybody has any further input it would be appreciated... Thanks again Andy On 5/9/06, Bill Knighton wrote: > The lister style engines muffle well with a car muffler. Since they run > at 600 rpm they are not at all annoying. Standing 30 feet away they are > about as loud and similar in sound to a washing machine. I can easily > have a conversation when one is running in the shop. One user, who you > can find linked at utterpower.com runs one in his basement. He lives > on small residential lot and it is not a problem. He has used a dual > walled barrel with sand in between as a silencer. Of course he pipes the > exhaust up and out. > I think that even if you could get the SVO free it would be hard to > make money. To me the best purpose for local power generation is to > provide the tiny amount of electricity needed for economized, off grid > individual or neighborhood community users. > > If you can buy/make biodiesel or straight veggie, pay for and maintain > > the generator, and burn that generator to make power for cheaper than > > you can sell power for, then you should be correct. > > > > This of course is discounting your time and the noise the generator > > makes and the annoyance to any neighbors you have of the 95 dB > > generator in your back yard. > > > > Go for it. > > > > Will > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From mattr at biofuels.coop Sun May 14 17:46:35 2006 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Sun May 14 15:43:44 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Roof Inspection Message-ID: <14E7F87A-545F-4CA2-BBF2-B567E46BB173@biofuels.coop> Hi everyone, Here at the Piedmont Biofuels Cooperative we have been watching our roof slowly deteriorate over the past few years and have increasingly felt compelled to repair and replace our roofing (we currently have shingles). As we come into the summer months with many projects to complete, we are trying to assess the priority of our roof repair, and how big a job it really is. To that end, we are putting out a cosmic waiter order for a building inspector or someone who has experience in the field that would be willing to come down and give us a courtesy inspection of the roof. If anyone is interested please drop me an email directly at matt@biofuels.coop. Thanks! Matt Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From rikkilarson at hotmail.com Mon May 15 09:29:51 2006 From: rikkilarson at hotmail.com (Rikki Larson) Date: Mon May 15 10:26:54 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] UNSUBSCRIBE PLEASE!!!! In-Reply-To: <4465E895.9489F42A@fedex.com> Message-ID: From: Matthew Whiting To: soozie@solarenergy.org CC: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] please unsubscribe Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 09:09:25 -0500 Same here. thanx, m soozie@solarenergy.org wrote: > please unsubscribe me! I love you all and whatnot, but i can't handle the > influx of emails. > > Bye now, > > soozie > ================================ > Soozie Lindbloom, Coordinator Solar in the Schools > Solar Energy International > 76 South 2nd Street (shipping) > PO Box 715 > Carbondale, CO 81623 > (970) 963-8855, fax: (970) 963-8866 > soozie@solarenergy.org > www.solarenergy.org > > "Creating the world we want is a much more subtle but more > powerful mode of operation than destroying the one we don't > want." -Marianne Williamson > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From simplylive2be at hotmail.com Mon May 15 21:18:31 2006 From: simplylive2be at hotmail.com (Willard Harper) Date: Mon May 15 19:15:36 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause In-Reply-To: <4465E97E.99BCE8DA@fedex.com> Message-ID: Ditto. please remove me as well. Sincerely, Russell Harper (simplylive2be@hotmail.com) >From: Matthew Whiting >To: francismiller@comcast.net >CC: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from List for Just Cause >Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 09:13:18 -0500 > >I agree, waaaaaay too much. I am gone also. Take me off the list. M > >Francis Miller wrote: > > > I no longer choose to participate in this group. It has been hijacked by > > individuals with a political agenda who like to hear themselves speaking > > to the choir. After rereading Orwell's "Animal Farm" I realized there > > was very little hope of this thing getting back to where alternative > > fuels were the central issue. An area like biodiesel, by its very > > nature, tends to attract certain people. Bon voyage. Fran Miller > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement From aibodkin at gmail.com Tue May 16 10:28:51 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Tue May 16 08:25:48 2006 Subject: Fwd: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How long can you store Bio-Diesel? In-Reply-To: <0IZB002X8BU4CM@earth.clarion.edu> References: <0IZB002X8BU4CM@earth.clarion.edu> Message-ID: Hey Tony, I think you meant to send this email to all participants, please be sure if you click reply option on a Biofuels Interest Group (BIG) email that you choose "reply to all" and it will include the entire BIG group. You should get answers from a multitude of sources... :0) I can take a shot at one of your questions: Q. How long can biodiesel be stored. A. Depends how you are storing it. Keep it dark. Keep it at constant temperature. Keep the water out of it. Give it a year. http://biofuels.coop/faq.shtml some of the other folks might be more help with your other questions... Regards Andy ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tony Johns Date: May 15, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] How long can you store Bio-Diesel? To: A Bodkin Hello; I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and this is my first post. Let me thank all of you for being willing to share your knowledge about bio-diesel. I do have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find definitive answers for. Please help me out and also point me to a website with the answers if there is one. How long can I store Bio-Diesel if I store it in an airtight container that roughly maintains a constant temperature? If it does get 'old' can I reprocess it and then use it? I have several used 30 gallon plastic drums that have a '2' on the bottom and say HDPE, can these be used in the bio-diesel process? I'm thinking of making bio-diesel but I want to keep my startup costs to a minimum. Thanks for all the great help; Tony From JOHNS at clarion.edu Tue May 16 14:38:51 2006 From: JOHNS at clarion.edu (Tony Johns) Date: Tue May 16 12:35:52 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Some Newbie Questions In-Reply-To: <14E7F87A-545F-4CA2-BBF2-B567E46BB173@biofuels.coop> Message-ID: <0IZD0076BD0RWG@earth.clarion.edu> Hello; I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and this is my first post. Let me thank all of you for being willing to share your knowledge about bio-diesel. I do have three questions that I can't seem to find definitive answers for. Please help me out and also point me to a website with the answers if there is one. How long can I store Bio-Diesel if I store it in an airtight container that roughly maintains a constant temperature? I've heard one-year but has that been tested or is that a WAG? What I'm really interested in is my next question. If it does get 'old' can I reprocess it and then use it? I have several used 30 gallon plastic drums that have a '2' on the bottom and say HDPE, can these be used in the bio-diesel process? I'm thinking of making bio-diesel but I want to keep my startup costs to a minimum. Thanks for all the great help; Tony From biodiesel at yovo.info Tue May 16 21:25:32 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Tue May 16 19:22:33 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Some Newbie Questions In-Reply-To: <0IZD0076BD0RWG@earth.clarion.edu> References: <0IZD0076BD0RWG@earth.clarion.edu> Message-ID: <446A6D7C.6030806@yovo.info> Hi Tony, The NREL has some good information about storage issues. You definitely want to keep the B100 from growing fuzzy. Pure biodiesel can be contaminated with a variety of algae, fungi and microbes. See this document for a good overview: http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy06osti/39451.pdf check out sections 3.6 B100 Stability, 3.7 B100 Microbial Contamination, and 3.9 Material Compatibility ================ 3.7 B100 Microbial Contamination Biocides are recommended for conventional and biodiesel fuels wherever biological growth in the fuel has been a problem. If biological contamination is a problem, water contamination needs to be controlled since the aerobic fungus, bacteria, and yeast hydrocarbon utilizing microorganisms (HUMBUGS) usually grow at the fuel-water interface. Anaerobic colonies, usually sulfur reducing, can be active in sediments on tank surfaces and cause corrosion. Since the biocides work where the HUMBUGS live (in the water), products that are used with diesel fuels will work equally well with biodiesel. ================ And of course keep it dry and protected from UV light. Personally, I have stored B99 for months in 5-gallon jerry cans, which worked just fine. Grease be with you! Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tony Johns wrote: > Hello; > > I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and this is my first post. > Let me thank all of you for being willing to share your knowledge about > bio-diesel. > > I do have three questions that I can't seem to find definitive answers for. > Please help me out and also point me to a website with the answers if there > is one. > > > How long can I store Bio-Diesel if I store it in an airtight container that > roughly maintains a constant temperature? I've heard one-year but has that > been tested or is that a WAG? What I'm really interested in is my next > question. > > If it does get 'old' can I reprocess it and then use it? > > I have several used 30 gallon plastic drums that have a '2' on the bottom > and say HDPE, can these be used in the bio-diesel process? I'm thinking of > making bio-diesel but I want to keep my startup costs to a minimum. > > Thanks for all the great help; > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From petkemail-biodieselbasics at yahoo.com Thu May 11 11:44:29 2006 From: petkemail-biodieselbasics at yahoo.com (petkemail-biodieselbasics@yahoo.com) Date: Tue May 16 20:05:40 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: Biodiesel coop Meeeting Thursday @ Gus' In-Reply-To: <20060511033654.66341.qmail@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060511174429.40929.qmail@web30414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How long do these meetings usually last? I'm going to try to make my first appearance. --- Metrolina Biodiesel Network wrote: > We will be there this week!!! > Every Thursday at 7pm > @ Gus' Sir Beef Restaurant > located at > 4101 Monroe Road > Charlotte, NC 28205 > > > > Thanks, > Melvin and The Metrolina Biodiesel Network > http://metrolinabiodiesel.com/ > > > > From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Thu May 11 13:32:26 2006 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Tue May 16 20:05:45 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Co-ops Conference, July 14-16, Registration page now up Message-ID: <4463914A.6040900@localb100.com> Local Biodiesel: A Biodiesel Co-ops Conference, to be held July 14-16, is now open for attendee registration. The conference will present case studies and panel discussions about biodiesel groups- co-ops, educational groups, small business biodiesel, along with technical, legal, distribution, and feedstock discussions from the perspective of small-scale availability. There will be a large amount of time devoted to networking and informal discussions, to assist in meeting others from your region and with your specific interests in biodiesel organizing. We are trying to present presentations based on actual experiences, rather than theory about how groups should be run. We are looking for speakers who wish to come talk about their groups and the biodiesel progress in their community. The conference is $60 (including two meals a day), with some optional dorm room accommodations available. Preregistration is required, and the deadline for that is July 7 (with an earlier deadline for dorm room reservations unfortunately). Friday night the 14th is a free presentation to the general public along with a networking social/dorms check-in afterward. The conference sesssions/presentations will take place Saturday and Sunday. The conference website is www.b100.org, and the new Paypal registration page is www.b100.org/registration For more information, please see our website or email us at conference@b100.org This conference is being organized by a group of people including: Graydon Blair (utahbiodieselsupply.com, utahbiodiesel.org) John Bush (boulderbiodiesel.com) Jon Meuser (Colorado School of Mines student council on sustainability) Maria 'Mark' Alovert (www.localb100.com) and various Colorado biodiesel activists including members of Denver Biodiesel (denverbiodiesel.org) Input and ideas for this conference have come from Maud Essen, Lan Barnes, BioLyle (Lyle Rudensey of NW Biodiesel Network) , Matthew Steiman, and many others from the national 'local biodiesel' community. From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Thu May 11 13:42:00 2006 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl mark) Date: Tue May 16 20:05:52 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Co-ops Conference, July 14-16, Registration page now up Message-ID: <44639388.7020807@localb100.com> Loops, I forgot to include in my message the conference location (though it's listed at the web page that was buried in the original message). That's what I get for composing messages while rushing to the airport. The Local Biodiesel co-ops conference will be held July 14-16 at Colorado School of Mines in Golden, a suburb (?) of Denver. More info is at the web page www.b100.org From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue May 16 22:13:36 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue May 16 20:10:26 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] For those wanting to unsubscribe References: <3889aa560605121050m2c65d9cfv7a388495cf2c3778@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <85EFDC68-EC35-490B-BD47-A13AA80A5620@blast.com> Hello folks, If you would like to be removed from this list, you can do it simply by going to the link at the bottom of each post to unsubscribe yourself: http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group Scroll to the bottom for the 'unsubscribe' field. I know this was posted by Susan recently but I thought it may be helpful to others. Please do not email the list that you would like to unsubscribe. Thank you. Now back to biofuels, Rachel From alizard at ecis.com Wed May 17 02:12:21 2006 From: alizard at ecis.com (A.Lizard) Date: Wed May 17 03:09:20 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Chevron Invests in Biodiesel Deal In-Reply-To: <20060517000615.7F15410DBC9@mail2.blast.com> References: <20060517000615.7F15410DBC9@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20060517011143.7a9bc760@mail.ecis.com> fair usage quote, rest at the URL. A.Lizard >Chevron Invests in Biodiesel Deal >http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-chevron12may12,1,1095737.story?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true > >When it's completed, a Texas plant will increase U.S. production of the >fuel, which is made from soybeans, by 54%. > From Bloomberg News > May 12, 2006 > > Chevron Corp. said Thursday that it would acquire a 22% stake in a > Houston company that is building a plant to make diesel from vegetable oil. > >Galveston Bay Biodiesel's facility in Galveston, Texas, will produce up to >100 million gallons a year of biodiesel, a fuel that is made from >components of soybean oil, San Ramon, Calif.-based Chevron said. The plant >will boost U.S. biodiesel output by 54%. > > >ADVERTISEMENT > >Chevron's statement did not list the value of its Galveston Bay Biodiesel >investment. > >The investment follows Chevron's January announcement of plans to begin >selling fuel made mostly from corn-based ethanol this summer in >California. With crude oil approaching $75 a barrel, President Bush is >encouraging production of biodiesel and ethanol as alternatives to >petroleum-based fuels. member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild. "You can't have in a democracy various groups with arms - you have to have the state with a monopoly on power." Condoleeza Rice, US Secretary of State Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard business Website http://www.reptilelabs.com backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard@gmail.com PGP 8.0 key available by request or keyserver. Download PGP from: http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy. Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html ***Looking for INTELLIGENT new technology public policy alternatives?*** http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/technology.html From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed May 17 09:40:53 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed May 17 07:38:27 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Metalworking Lubricant From Soybean Oil Message-ID: May 16, 2006 - By: Jan Suszkiw, ARS, USDA A biodegradable metalworking fluid derived from soybean oil is earning high marks in trials by Alcoa, Inc., a global supplier of primary and fabricated aluminum products. The Pittsburgh-based company is conducting the trials under a five- year, cooperative research and development agreement involving a team led by chemist Sevim Erhan at the Agricultural Research Service's (ARS) National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research in Peoria, Ill. The partnership began in 2001 when Alcoa technical consultant Ronald Reich contacted the ARS team about the feasibility of developing metalworking fluids from biobased resources rather than petroleum, which is nonrenewable. The fluids are critical to Alcoa's hot and cold flat-rolling operations, which produce aluminum sheets for everything from beer cans to aircraft-wing panels. Alcoa sought a biobased formulation that readily breaks down in the environment and comes from a domestic resource, such as oilseed crops. Furthermore, the method for producing it had to be economic and nonpolluting. And, of course, the biobased fluid had to meet all industry criteria for safety and performance. The ARS team's first step was to examine the chemical structures that give mineral-oil-based metalworking fluids their functional properties. Then they had to keep those observations in mind in making a biobased equivalent, which they did using modified soy oil and antioxidants for oxidative stability. According to Erhan, who leads the ARS center's Food and Industrial Oil Research Unit, they chose soy oil because it's plentiful, home- grown and chemically versatile to work with. After evaluating several soy-based formulations, Alcoa chose one for a first round of tests at its aluminum-continuous casting plant in Reno, Nev. Operators there who evaluated the formulation were so pleased, according to Reich, they promptly substituted it for their synthetic fluids. The soy-based formulation also performed well this past December in large-scale trials involving a reversing-mill process at Alcoa's Lancaster, Penn., plan From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed May 17 09:42:12 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed May 17 07:39:49 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Florida: Biomass Resources Corporation Announces Ethanol from Pineapple Success Message-ID: May 16, 2006 - Business Wire Biomass Resources Corporation (OTC Pink Sheets: BMSS) announced on May 8 that it has achieved initial success at extracting Ethanol from pineapple fruit and pineapple plant waste. "Today's test results are tremendously significant by demonstrating that we can successfully extract Ethanol from plant waste," said Dr. Arnold Ramirez, Chief Scientist of Biomass. "Current Ethanol processes from products such as sugar cane and corn require the producer to select either food or Ethanol as the end product," Ramirez explains. "By using the unique Biomass Resources method of processing the plant waste we are not required to make a 'food or fuel' decision which provides a 'win-win' situation." Biomass Resources Corporation has established unique methods of processing both the ingestible produce (fruit/vegetable) and the plant waste product to mine valuable by-product extractions. Initially, the company is focusing on the pineapple industry for its production and has established a 5,000 sq. ft. R&D and production facility outside of Cali, Columbia in the heart of the pineapple industry. The company's unique pineapple separation technology is producing several valuable by-products such as: Cellulose and Hemi-Cellulose - Ethanol - this by-product is the key component of ethanol. Recent and future fossil fuel limitations have brought the production of ethanol from agriculture sources to the forefront. Biomass Resources has the unique ability to create ethanol from the plant waste as well as the plant fruit (in the case of pineapples). Bromelain - This by-product is comprised of a group of enzymes found in pineapple juice and in the stem of pineapple plants. Bromelain has been found to have various nutraceutical benefits. Xylitol- This is a natural by-product from pineapple that is used as a sugar substitute. Xylitol is a non-toxic and safe to take (unlike many other alternative sweeteners). Lignin - Lignin is derived from pineapple plants and is nontoxic and extremely versatile. Physical and chemical properties differ depending on the extraction technology and can produce such outputs as, cleaning compounds, animal feed pellets, dyes, pigments and more. Protein Laden Plant waste - This by-product, when added to a secondary plant supplement known as Trichanthera Gigantean, produces a beneficial dietary supplement. From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org Wed May 17 13:09:18 2006 From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Clifford Dyer) Date: Wed May 17 11:06:21 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 81 VW Rabbit for Sale. Message-ID: <20060517160918.GA19823@sdf.lonestar.org> Hey All, I've got a 1981 VW Diesel Rabbit that I'd like to sell to anyone interested. It's a project car for someone with an interest in biodiesel, and more car smarts than me. It has a a transmission from a 1982 Rabbit, a new alternator, and new fuel lines from the pump to the injectors. However, it stalls out, and I'm told the suspension needs work. It has run about 500 miles on biodiesel. The car is in Pittsboro, NC. Asking price is $650. Contact me off-list at jcd@sdf.lonestar.org or call me at (919) 545-9679 Cheers, Cliff From girlmark_list_email at localb100.com Thu May 18 06:09:09 2006 From: girlmark_list_email at localb100.com (girl Mark) Date: Thu May 18 07:05:59 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel coop conference now includes ride board/regional conference travel forum Message-ID: <2440.207.108.169.182.1147954149.squirrel@webmail.localb100.com> A reminder, the July 14-16 biodiesel co-ops conference website is www.b100.org We have just set up a "rideshare board" forum at the conference website, feel free to use it to meet up with others traveling to the conference from your area. I expect it'll take a bit of time for the rideboard to truly get going - dont be surprised if there's nothing there for a few days. Feel free to use it for regional resources sharing or to meet biodieselers from your area also: www.b100.org/rideboard ************************************ Local Biodiesel: A Biodiesel Co-ops Conference, to be held July 14-16, is now open for attendee registration. The conference will present case studies and panel discussions about biodiesel groups- co-ops, educational groups, small business biodiesel, along with technical, legal, distribution, and feedstock discussions from the perspective of small-scale availability. There will be a large amount of time devoted to networking and informal discussions, to assist in meeting others from your region and with your specific interests in biodiesel organizing. We are trying to present presentations based on actual experiences, rather than theory about how groups should be run. We are looking for speakers who wish to come talk about their groups and the biodiesel progress in their community. The conference is $60 (including two meals a day), with some optional dorm room accommodations available. Preregistration is required, and the deadline for that is July 7 (with an earlier deadline for dorm room reservations unfortunately). Friday night the 14th is a free presentation to the general public along with a networking social/dorms check-in afterward. The conference sesssions/presentations will take place Saturday and Sunday. The conference website is www.b100.org, and the new Paypal registration page is www.b100.org/registration For more information, please see our website or email us at conference@b100.org This conference is being organized by a group of people including: Graydon Blair (utahbiodieselsupply.com, utahbiodiesel.org) John Bush (boulderbiodiesel.com) Jon Meuser (Colorado School of Mines student council on sustainability) Maria 'Mark' Alovert (www.localb100.com) and various Colorado biodiesel activists including members of Denver Biodiesel (denverbiodiesel.org) Input and ideas for this conference have come from Maud Essen, Lan Barnes, BioLyle (Lyle Rudensey of NW Biodiesel Network) , Matthew Steiman, and many others from the national 'local biodiesel' community. From john.bonitz at gmail.com Sat May 20 10:21:11 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Sat May 20 11:17:52 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 81 VW Rabbit for Sale Message-ID: <84a57a420605200921k73c34876j780dc786e11a8675@mail.gmail.com> Rabbit fixer-upper available. Please respond to Cliff directly. Act fast: He's leaving town soon. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ************************************ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 12:09:18 -0400 From: "J. Clifford Dyer" Subject: 81 VW Rabbit for Sale. Hey All, I've got a 1981 VW Diesel Rabbit that I'd like to sell to anyone interested. It's a project car for someone with an interest in biodiesel, and more car smarts than me. It has a a transmission from a 1982 Rabbit, a new alternator, and new fuel lines from the pump to the injectors. However, it stalls out, and I'm told the suspension needs work. It has run about 500 miles on biodiesel. The car is in Pittsboro, NC. Asking price is $650. Contact me off-list at jcd@sdf.lonestar.org or call me at (919) 545-9679 Cheers, Cliff From biodiesel at yovo.info Sat May 20 14:03:34 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Sat May 20 12:00:16 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] water heater question Message-ID: <446F4BE6.3050307@yovo.info> Is anyone here aware of any problems or potential problems with operating a water heater upside down? (besides making sure that the heating element that's not submerged is disconnected.) I am building an appleseed reactor, and it seems that the only way to completely drain the glycerol is by operating the water heater upside down and draining the reactor through the pipes connected at the top (what used to be the top). Or am I just nuts? Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From mattr at biofuels.coop Sun May 21 21:04:07 2006 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Sun May 21 19:00:44 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] conservative ad campaign to promote CO2 production References: <51DCDCB1-89F0-4982-B86C-3802F0CA52CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6C9F298B-C8E6-475E-8694-19EF694A6D18@biofuels.coop> this is totally serious. i swear. just go to their website. Competitive Enterprises Institute http://streams.cei.org/ try both of the ad streams. From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue May 23 16:42:37 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue May 23 14:39:05 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: VW for sale References: Message-ID: <12A96D81-B8A9-4864-B844-3B1FE385D78F@blast.com> > > Rachel: > I sold the spare motor from the VW on sat., so could you please > add this excerpt to the list serve? Thank you very much! > > [[ The 1981 VW Rabbit that was $900 with spare motor is now $700; > the spare motor was sold on saturday, so the price is reduced. Car > spec's are: > > Rabbit Diesel 4 dr. 5spd > Mechanically sound and recent NC inspection > 4 brand new tires > excellent work car (no back seats) > Running and ready to go...$700 firm > Call Adrian at (919) 608-1642 to see car in Greensboro ]] > > > Thanks a million! > Adrian > >> From: Rachel Burton >> To: BIG >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: VW for sale >> Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 09:12:20 -0400 >> >> Please contact the seller directly. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "adrian boggs" >>> Date: May 10, 2006 11:28:45 PM EDT >>> >>> The info on the VW is as follows: >>> >>> 1981 VW Rabbit, 4-door, 5-speed, >>> AC (probably hasn't run in years); heater and fan run strong >>> As of friday will have four BRAND NEW tires and will be NC >>> road- inspected next week >>> 1.6 Non-turbo diesel 4-cyl >>> 160+k miles >>> Spare identical motor w/ tranny, probably needs rebuild but >>> crank spins freely (no seized pistons or bearings), excellent >>> source for parts like injection pump, head, etc >>> Runs strong, $900 takes all (including Haynes VW Diesel manual) >>> >>> >>> This car is dark forest green and has only the two front >>> seats (I got it like that). I have put basically no miles on it >>> since I bought it, due to school. The interior (what's left of >>> it) has been cleaned out, as most of it has rotted away. It >>> still has the dash, front seats, carpet and interior door >>> panels. This vehicle is destined to be a work car or a co-op >>> grease goat. Most of the door handles work and I have cleaned >>> and lubed the window regulators to get them moving again. This >>> will be a good project/conversion car, and would be best suited >>> to hauling things around, since there are no back seats. At some >>> point down the road it will need new axles, but since they are >>> bolt-on shafts (no draining the tranny), that will be a simple >>> task. It smokes a bit on start-up, but after about 30 seconds >>> the idle levels out, the smoke clears and it runs beautifully. >>> This is one of two identical cars that I bought together and I >>> am including the engine from the other one as a spare (if >>> desired). If a buyer want the car but not the motor, the price >>> stays the same. >>> I don't have much wiggle room at all on the price since I am >>> putting brand new rubber on it and getting it past the safety >>> inspection. It was not inspected when I bought it, and had not >>> been for years. The tires that were on it shredded themselves to >>> death on I-40 on the way home (dry rot), so I guess I'm lucky to >>> still be talking. All told, for the budget-conscious, tinkering >>> biodieselist type, this will be a great way to get a cheap, >>> inspected and running diesel car that gets 50 mpg and has a >>> spare motor. >>> Please feel free to post this email to the list to spare you >>> from retyping this exercise in creative writing. I can be >>> reached at (919) 608-1642. For those that don't know, the car is >>> in Greensboro at my apartment near UNCG. I'd be happy to >>> provide directions, as my place is easy to find. Thank you so >>> much and I look forward to getting together again sometime! >>> >>> Adrian >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue May 23 16:47:35 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue May 23 14:44:02 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sustainable Farming Program recruiting instructors References: Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Robin Kohanowich" > Date: May 23, 2006 12:58:01 PM EDT > To: > Cc: > Subject: [growingsmallfarms] Sustainable Farming Program recruiting > instructors > > CCCC's Sustainable Farming Program is recruiting part-time adjunct > instructors for the following curriculum courses to be taught this > Fall: > AGR170 -Soil Science- Candidates should have a related degree and > experience working in organic agriculture, preferably in the > southeast. The course is currently scheduled for Monday from 9 am > to 12:40 pm, but may be changed to suit the schedule of the ideal > instructor. > AGR220 - Ag Mechanics- Candidates should have a related degree and > experience working on small farm equipment and machinery. Equipment > here at CCCC include new John Deere diesel tractor, 50+ year old > Massey gas powered tractor, a BCS walk-behind tractor and various > other pieces of maintenance equipment. The course is currently > scheduled for Wednesday from 4pm to 7:40 pm, but may be changed to > suit the schedule of the ideal instructor. > We are also in the process of seeking a replacement for our current > farm manager, Doug Jones. Doug is moving down the road to Moncure > to work in agriculture related enterprises at the Biofuels > Cooperative. An official position announcement will be posted soon, > however, please contact me if you are interested now and I can > share the details. > AND, not to be too lengthy- we are also looking for new courses and > people to teach them in our sustainable farming continuing > education program for the Fall. The current line-up will most > likely include: cut flowers, organic vegetables, livestock and > green building. What would you like to see? Let me hear from you! > For more information on any of the above, please contact Robin > Kohanowich 919-542-6495 ext 229 or by e-mail rkohanowich@cccc.edu > > > Robin Kohanowich > Coordinator, The Sustainable Farming Program > CCCC > 764 West Street > Pittsboro, NC 27312 > From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue May 23 16:54:08 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue May 23 14:50:35 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: E85/B20 station opening in Southern Pines References: <011301c67e9a$6b93f5c0$1800a8c0@cleancities> Message-ID: <64B28125-71B6-46CE-A153-EDCE0500EE8C@blast.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Tobin Freid" > Date: May 23, 2006 2:53:20 PM EDT > To: > Subject: E85/B20 station opening in Southern Pines > > Come celebrate the Grand Opening of "America's Fuel", the first > commercial station to sell E85 in the Triangle Region, and the > second selling B20 biodiesel! Station Owner Bill Smith is > committed to alternative fuel and will only be selling E85, B20 and > E10 at this location. > > When: June 1, 11:00 AM > Where: America's Fuel, 801 SW Broad Street, Southern Pines 28387 > (910-692-7337) > What: Ribbon Cutting, food, music, ethanol, biodiesel > Who: The Mayor of Southern Pines Frank Quis, Deputy Commissioner of > Agriculture David Smith, State Energy Director Larry Shirley, and > other alternative fuels enthusiasts > > Show your support of biofuels in the Triangle and be a part of the > celebration! > > Tobin L. Freid > Triangle Clean Cities Coalition Coordinator > Triangle J Council of Governments > (919) 558-9400 > > -- Triangle J Council of Governments is a Best Workplace for > Commuters -- > From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue May 23 22:31:15 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue May 23 20:27:42 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fundraiser for Green Energy Park Message-ID: <88EDEFA5-1C81-4DDD-A11D-448F14978B90@blast.com> Jackson County Green Energy Park Dillsboro, North Carolina - www.GreenEnergyPark.org Contact: Timm Muth ? Project Manager (828) 631-0271 or (828) 507-1800 (cell) Upcoming Event: Benefit Fund Raiser Thursday evening May 25, 2006 at 7pm Soul Infusion Tea House & Bistro in Sylva (828) 586-1717 Live Music, Silent Auction, Door Prizes, Raffle and more Help us raise $4,500 for our new glass-blowing studios! The Jackson County Green Energy Park will capture methane gas from the old Dillsboro landfill for use as a fuel. This gas will be used to provide process heat for a series of pottery studios, glass- blowing studios, blacksmithing forges, greenhouses, a biodiesel refinery, and a botanicals and agricultural products drying facility. Existing buildings on site will be refurbished to house the artisan studios and refinery. By using the gas in this fashion, the County will realize a wide range of economic, environmental, and educational benefits. From conrad1 at nc.rr.com Tue May 23 23:07:22 2006 From: conrad1 at nc.rr.com (conrad1@nc.rr.com) Date: Tue May 23 21:03:47 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: hmmmmmmm...I wonder/Eggs Message-ID: Pass It On. hmmmmmmmm Conrad From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org Wed May 24 12:46:31 2006 From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Clifford Dyer) Date: Wed May 24 10:43:01 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 81 Rabbit has pictures. Message-ID: <20060524154631.GA3535@sdf.lonestar.org> For those of you who asked, I now have pictures of the 81 VW Rabbit on the web. Check them out at http://jcd.freeshell.org/rabbit/ As a reminder, this vehicle is for sale for $650 or best offer. It is located in Pittsboro, NC. I am moving out of state a week from today, so please, let me know (off list) if you're interested. Cheers, Cliff From rickyb at rickyb.net Wed May 24 12:43:59 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Wed May 24 11:40:23 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] coop Message-ID: <20060524164359.6110ADA543@ws6-6.us4.outblaze.com> Hi gang, We in Winston Salem have our first reactor, bulk methanol supplier, bulk potassium supplier and several very promising lead for our WVO supplier. One thing we lack is explicit information on how to form a coop. We have contact various state's offices of North Carolina, local state coop agencies Blue Ridge Coop and here we are on the forum. We have the Piedmonts bylaws rules etc thanks to Lyle's pointing us with a link. Can someone give us specifics such as, "You can find the forms at ....." and " you will need forms ....". "You should contact ... at the state's office of ...". All those blanks need to be filled in by someone. We are so close we can just taste it, no pun intended. It appears that starting a coop is, paraphasing Jimmy Buffet, like the Texan two-step, so simple it just escapes us. Anyway thanks in advance for any an all help. We right on the parapet and just need a little push. As they say down on the farm,,,...eggggggggggggcellent. From mary at crews.com Wed May 24 18:19:58 2006 From: mary at crews.com (mary robinson crews) Date: Wed May 24 16:15:39 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] mercedes fuel cap in carrboro In-Reply-To: <20060524164359.6110ADA543@ws6-6.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060524164359.6110ADA543@ws6-6.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: hey all, i was fueling up at the pump in carrboro this morning and saw a mercedes fuel cap sitting on the pump. it may have already been claimed by now, but if you've fueled up recently you might want to check to make sure you've got your cap. From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed May 24 23:10:47 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed May 24 21:07:08 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] New Holland Becomes First OEM to Fully Approve B20 Message-ID: The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) recently announced that agricultural and construction equipment manufacturer New Holland has approved B20, a blend of 20 percent biodiesel and 80 percent standard petroleum diesel, for use in all of its equipment using the company's engines. According to NBB, New Holland is the first original equipment manufacturer (OEM) to fully support the use of B20 in all of its diesel engines. NBB noted that it has worked with New Holland and other diesel engine, fuel injection and vehicle companies to research and test the use of B20. Contact: Jenna Higgins, NBB, phone 573-635-3893; Gene Hemphill, New Holland, phone 717-355-1371. From dieselem at biofuels.coop Mon May 29 18:44:33 2006 From: dieselem at biofuels.coop (Emily Lancaster) Date: Mon May 29 16:40:30 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] CANOLA HARVEST Message-ID: <8d1d1f370605291444x49dd6000jb4d8c4c149006a51@mail.gmail.com> For anyone who is interested in biodiesel *pre-crush*: We here at the Piedmont Biofuels Co-op (Moncure, NC) will be harvesting our canola research crop this Sunday from 2 pm until we're done. Depending on volunteer turnout, that could be pretty quick. This particular variety of canola (which itself is a varitety of rapeseed, or Brassica rapa) is a cross from Virginia State University, "VSX-1." The main point of this research is to determine how varieties of oilseed crops grow in this climate without the use of petrochemicals. Once we extract the oil from the seeds (which you are all welcome to help with also) we will be looking at characteristics like overall yield and oil quality. For those of you who helped last year, thank you for your efforts. Here's a link to the photos from 2005: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/chatham/ag/SustAg/farmphotoaugust0105.html Our 2005 harvest was so small that we have not yet processed the seeds, so our production was unknown. However, this year's crop was much more successful, and Matt is eagerly looking forward to ensuring that the seeds get threshed (stomped--dance party?), cleaned, and weighed after harvest. I've already harvested some of the other research varieties, and they are drying in the greenhouse. The canola, however, is a bigger project (without a grant, sadly) and we could use all the help we can get. We will have the standard pot luck lunch around noon, and anyone that wants to join the co-op tour at 1 pm is welcome to do so. We'll probably start harvesting around 2. If anyone has extra hedge trimmers or old unwanted bedsheets, please bring them. If you need directions to the co-op, check out the Piedmont Biofuels website (www.biofuels.coop). Thank you and hope to see you there. Emily From marc at theforestfoundation.org Tue May 30 18:12:00 2006 From: marc at theforestfoundation.org (Marc Dreyfors-President) Date: Tue May 30 16:14:09 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Bull City Coop User Profile Message-ID: Hi Everyone: Thought you would like to hear this. Today, a 23 year old Marine from Lousiana came by looking for B100 on his way back to Camp Lejune, NC. He had a very nice VW Jetta TDI on which he put an SVO kit. He wanted to fill up and find a way he could get more biodiesel. He was an adament biofuels advocate, and said he had been to Baghdad and did not want to go back. He understood the value of biofuels as an alternative to fossil fuels and what our fossil fuel "addiction" was doing. His buddies called him a "hippie Marine." He, along with several other of our tank users, are military or ex-military and seem to have come to the alt. fuel world because of their experience in service to our country. We filled him a 50 gal. plastic barrel and four of us heaved it into the back seat of his TDI, putting it on a nice cardboard box to keep his seat clean. We gave him a $.20 per gallon break, which I hope the Coop will appreciate and stuffed him full of literature to take back to his buddies. We even included our "How to start a B100 Coop and Tank Trail Tank" from our website, carolinabiofuels.org. We hope that this may start a revolution down there. Maybe we should offer a special program for the military? He wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life and asked us lots of questions about what we do and where he could go to college. We pray he doesn't have to return to the Mideast, and that he can help get more military interested in real solutions to our geopolitical problems. Marc Other news: Mk and I "christened" the B100 Tank Trail tank at Cape Fear Biofuels Coop. this weekend, being the first "outsiders" filling up in Wilmington, NC while at the beach. "Come on down, the grease is good!" From john.bonitz at gmail.com Tue May 30 18:23:53 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Tue May 30 16:20:08 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: CANOLA HARVEST! Message-ID: <84a57a420605301423t22b21c43nd0623a43071c08ee@mail.gmail.com> Dear friends of biofuels, I feel compelled to chime-in here. With a lot of help last year, I organized the 2005 harvest. It was lots of fun! http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/chatham/ag/SustAg/farmphotoaugust0105.html If the pictures don't convince you, I should speak to the importance of this effort. Even more so than last year, we all recognize the imperative of diversifying our nation's energy sources and supplies. The harm of our reliance upon foreign fossil fuels is becoming more and more clear to people of all political persuasions. Due in part to Piedmont Biofuels taking the lead with oilseeds, NCSU finally got involved: They got a grant and persuaded an NC grain farmer to plant a 3.5 acre test plot of canola. They even held a very informative "field day" on the subject, which Matt Rudolph, David Thornton and I attended. http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/437541.html Trouble is, the approach is totally conventional, with no effort to minimize fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, GMOs, etc. And even at this, the farmer is quite skeptical as to the market and profitability for this crop. In all likelihood, without subsidies, commodity canola may become just as much a money-loser as corn is in North Carolina. So, one bright shining hope is that sustainable methods may prove to open the door to economically viable canola production. Our small organic plot may yield valuable data that farmers can use in considering larger scale production of the crop. But it won't happen if we don't get a few more hands to pitch-in this Sunday from 2 until... Please consider lending a hand for a couple hours. It's a very worthwhile cause. Towards energy independence! John -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC On 5/29/06, Emily Lancaster wrote: > For anyone who is interested in biodiesel *pre-crush*: We here at the > Piedmont Biofuels Co-op (Moncure, NC) will be harvesting our canola > research crop this Sunday from 2 pm until we're done. Depending on > volunteer turnout, that could be pretty quick. This particular > variety of canola (which itself is a varitety of rapeseed, or Brassica > rapa) is a cross from Virginia State University, "VSX-1." The main > point of this research is to determine how varieties of oilseed crops > grow in this climate without the use of petrochemicals. Once we > extract the oil from the seeds (which you are all welcome to help with > also) we will be looking at characteristics like overall yield and oil > quality. For those of you who helped last year, thank you for your > efforts. Here's a link to the photos from 2005: > > http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/chatham/ag/SustAg/farmphotoaugust0105.html > > Our 2005 harvest was so small that we have not yet processed the seeds, so our > production was unknown. However, this year's crop was much more > successful, and Matt is eagerly looking forward to ensuring that the > seeds get threshed (stomped--dance party?), cleaned, and weighed after > harvest. I've already harvested some of the other research varieties, > and they are drying in the greenhouse. The canola, however, is a > bigger project (without a grant, sadly) and we could use all the help > we can get. We will have the standard pot luck lunch around noon, and > anyone that wants to join the co-op tour at 1 pm is welcome to do so. > We'll probably start harvesting around 2. If anyone has extra hedge > trimmers or old unwanted bedsheets, please bring them. If you need > directions to the co-op, check out the Piedmont Biofuels website > (www.biofuels.coop). > Thank you and hope to see you there. > > Emily From biodiesel at yovo.info Wed May 31 10:14:10 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Wed May 31 08:10:02 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: [BCBD-Members] Bull City Coop User Profile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <447D96A2.1040605@yovo.info> Very interesting, Marc. I posted your email on my blog http://words.yovo.info/2006/05/31/bull-city-coop-user-profile/ BTW: The US Navy is the world's largest diesel user and it has a B20 mandate for all Navy and Marine non-tactical diesel vehicles: http://renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=24024 grease for peace! Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Marc Dreyfors-President wrote: > Hi Everyone: > > Thought you would like to hear this. > > Today, a 23 year old Marine from Lousiana came by looking for B100 on his > way back to Camp Lejune, NC. He had a very nice VW Jetta TDI on which he > put an SVO kit. He wanted to fill up and find a way he could get more > biodiesel. He was an adament biofuels advocate, and said he had been to > Baghdad and did not want to go back. He understood the value of biofuels as > an alternative to fossil fuels and what our fossil fuel "addiction" was > doing. His buddies called him a "hippie Marine." He, along with several > other of our tank users, are military or ex-military and seem to have come > to the alt. fuel world because of their experience in service to our > country. > > We filled him a 50 gal. plastic barrel and four of us heaved it into the > back seat of his TDI, putting it on a nice cardboard box to keep his seat > clean. We gave him a $.20 per gallon break, which I hope the Coop will > appreciate and stuffed him full of literature to take back to his buddies. > We even included our "How to start a B100 Coop and Tank Trail Tank" from our > website, carolinabiofuels.org. We hope that this may start a revolution > down there. Maybe we should offer a special program for the military? > > He wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life and asked us lots of > questions about what we do and where he could go to college. We pray he > doesn't have to return to the Mideast, and that he can help get more > military interested in real solutions to our geopolitical problems. > > Marc > > Other news: Mk and I "christened" the B100 Tank Trail tank at Cape Fear > Biofuels Coop. this weekend, being the first "outsiders" filling up in > Wilmington, NC while at the beach. "Come on down, the grease is good!" > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Members mailing list > Members@bullcitybiodiesel.org > http://bullcitybiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/members_bullcitybiodiesel.org From rickyb at rickyb.net Wed May 31 10:30:01 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Wed May 31 09:25:55 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] test Message-ID: <20060531143001.B0A069E83F@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> this is just a test. I sent a post yesterday and never saw it or got a response. thanks From morris_rl at yahoo.com Wed May 31 09:08:02 2006 From: morris_rl at yahoo.com (Rodger Morris) Date: Wed May 31 10:03:51 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 10, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <20060531132604.AA3211117A5@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <20060531150802.67697.qmail@web50615.mail.yahoo.com> The United Atates Navy also recycles all the cooking WVO at Naval Base Ventura County through a biodiesel reactor. Eventually, the Navy may send portable biodiesel processing units into the field. The biodiesel produced by the Navy also goes to Channel Islands National Park to power their diesel equipment. It also goes to the County of Ventura. This plant has been in operation since October of 2003. See: http://www.zyn.com/flcfw/brnews/navybio05.htm http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/pressreleases/gen/20031030_Navy_to_produce_Biodiesel.pdf http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:pMU8OB733JIJ:www.gsa.gov/gsa/cm_attachments/GSA_DOCUMENT/vv27%2520Navy%2520Biodiesel_R2-iD1-o_0Z5RDZ-i34K-pR.doc+navy+biodiesel+ventura+county&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7 ------ U.S. Navy to Produce its Own Biodiesel Alternative Fuel Helps Strengthen U.S. Energy Security, Protect the Environment By Jenna Higgins The largest diesel fuel user in the world is making a significant move in the drive for domestic energy security. At Naval Base Ventura County (NBVC) in Port Hueneme, Calif., U.S. Navy leaders announced plans to recycle the Navy?s used cooking oil by processing it into cleaner burning biodiesel for use in its diesel vehicles. Biodiesel is an established, commercially available fuel that works in any diesel engine, and the Department of Energy calls it the fastest growing alternative fuel in America. The Naval Facilities Engineering Service Center (NFESC) is partnering with Santa Barbara-based Biodiesel Industries, Inc., a biodiesel manufacturer and technology provider. Using a modular biodiesel processing unit, the base will collect its used cooking oil and transform it into biodiesel through a chemical process known as transesterification. Biodiesel can be made from any fat or vegetable oil, such as soybean oil. It?s nontoxic, biodegradable and works in any diesel engine with few or no modifications. Although biodiesel contains no petroleum, it can be blended with petroleum diesel at any level, the most common blend level being 20 percent biodiesel mixed with 80 percent diesel (B20). The U.S. Military is one of the largest users of B20, but this is the first attempt to create a self-sustaining plant. If the project is successful, ultimately the Navy could send portable biodiesel processing units overseas to produce its own fuel while on missions abroad. ?This is a win-win,? said Kurt Buehler, Chemical Engineer at NFESC. ?By producing our own biodiesel from used cooking oil, we can eliminate a solid waste disposal problem on bases. In return, our diesel vehicles will burn cleaner, and we?ll be using less foreign oil.? ?I think it is significant to note that the Navy is charged with protecting shipping routes to import petroleum to the United States,? said Joe Jobe, executive director of the nonprofit National Biodiesel Board. ?I admire the military leaders who have the foresight to use their existing resources to create cleaner burning biodiesel. The Navy is the largest diesel fuel user in the world, and they?re working proactively and creatively to use more renewable fuel. It?s truly groundbreaking.? The demonstration validation plant?s annual capacity is one million gallons. The base plans on using 20,000 gallons a year. Nearby Channel Islands National Park, which has used biodiesel for several years to help meet its goal of making the islands petroleum-free, will use 20,000 gallons a year. Ventura County will also use 20,000 gallons annually. ------ ... > > Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 09:14:10 -0400 > From: Jurgen Henn > To: marc@theforestfoundation.org > Cc: "Biofuels_Interest_Group@Lists. Emji. Net" > > Cc: Members > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: > [BCBD-Members] Bull City Coop User > Profile > Message-ID: <447D96A2.1040605@yovo.info> > In-Reply-To: > > References: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 7 > > Very interesting, Marc. I posted your email on my > blog > http://words.yovo.info/2006/05/31/bull-city-coop-user-profile/ > > BTW: The US Navy is the world's largest diesel user > and it has a B20 > mandate for all Navy and Marine non-tactical diesel > vehicles: > http://renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=24024 > > grease for peace! > Jurgen > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jurgen Henn > 2002 Jetta TDI > 40/50 MPG on biodiesel > http://words.yovo.info/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ... Wishing you and yours the very best, I remain... Rodger Morris morris_rl@yahoo.com MCSE+I, MCSE(NT4,W2K), CCAI, CCNP, CCDP, CTT, Security+, and so on Adjunct Professor, Oxnard College, Department of Engineering Technology Scouter, AE6JC, LASFS Life Member, and Sidewalk Astronomer Unitarian Jihad Name: "Brother Rail Gun of Quiet Reflection" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rickyb at rickyb.net Wed May 31 11:11:14 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Wed May 31 10:07:04 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] help? I think? Message-ID: <20060531151114.BAC9E9E87C@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> Group? We in Winston were preparing to make our first 15 gallons of bio. I had sucked up the oil into the reactor and decided to make sure the pump would lift and have no problems recirculating the oil for the methanol/lye mixing part. I opened my reactor bottom value and the pump started to pull the oil from the tank. It was a milky caramel color. I think maybe there was some water left in the bottom of the reactor where we had tested the whole thing to make sure everything worked and we had no leeks. It couldn't have been much but I am guessing the mixing action of the pump and recirculation caused the oil to change to the caramel color. Or is that the color it should be anyway? Anyway my question is this. The "book" says to heat up the oil and let it sit for a couple of days and bleed off the water that is on the bottom. That is the process I started yesterday. I heated it to at least 170 and then turned it off to let it settle out the water. But what is to be done with the residual that will always be in the bottom of the reactor? Without a drain in the immediate bottom there appears there will always be something on the bottom? Water glycerin etc. How do u get that out so it doesnt mix with your next batch? Also is the above solution the best thing to do? Thanks for any and all advice. WE are so close we can taste it...no pun intended. From mattr at biofuels.coop Wed May 31 14:24:35 2006 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Wed May 31 12:41:54 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] help? I think? In-Reply-To: <20060531151114.BAC9E9E87C@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060531151114.BAC9E9E87C@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <0511338D-5225-4DBA-AFDF-AEE3EA602310@biofuels.coop> Ricky, Are you using electricity to heat? If so it will be very energy intensive to use heat to settle out the water and sediment. You need very large settling capacity (we have 1800 gallons here at Piedmont) at room temperature or warmer, and the warmer you have, the quicker you will get out the water. If you have large amounts of water, it might take a month to settle out the water. Two suggestions: one, get feedstock with as little water as possible. two, if one is not possible, then set up a separate water separation/ evaporation tank. It should be open top and have a heat source, and incorporate a way to get lots of the oil's surface area in contact with the air to facilitate evaporation of the water. Matt On May 31, 2006, at 11:11 AM, rickyb@rickyb.net wrote: > Group? > > We in Winston were preparing to make our first 15 gallons of bio. > I had sucked up the oil into the reactor and decided to make sure > the pump would lift and have no problems recirculating the oil for > the methanol/lye mixing part. I opened my reactor bottom value and > the pump started to pull the oil from the tank. It was a milky > caramel color. I think maybe there was some water left in the > bottom of the reactor where we had tested the whole thing to make > sure everything worked and we had no leeks. It couldn't have been > much but I am guessing the mixing action of the pump and > recirculation caused the oil to change to the caramel color. Or is > that the color it should be anyway? > > Anyway my question is this. The "book" says to heat up the oil and > let it sit for a couple of days and bleed off the water that is on > the bottom. That is the process I started yesterday. I heated it > to at least 170 and then turned it off to let it settle out the > water. But what is to be done with the residual that will always > be in the bottom of the reactor? Without a drain in the immediate > bottom there appears there will always be something on the bottom? > Water glycerin etc. How do u get that out so it doesnt mix with > your next batch? Also is the above solution the best thing to do? > > Thanks for any and all advice. WE are so close we can taste > it...no pun intended. > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From biodiesel at yovo.info Wed May 31 17:50:34 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Wed May 31 15:46:23 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] help? I think? In-Reply-To: <20060531151114.BAC9E9E87C@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060531151114.BAC9E9E87C@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <447E019A.5060506@yovo.info> Ricky, the only way I can figure out to get the stuff from the bottom of the waterheater out is to turn the whole thing upside-down and drain it through the cold water intake. That's what I did with mine. Once the water is gone, there should only be glycerol settling to the bottom, which is no big deal, I think. Jurgen rickyb@rickyb.net wrote: > Group? > > We in Winston were preparing to make our first 15 gallons of bio. I had sucked up the oil into the reactor and decided to make sure the pump would lift and have no problems recirculating the oil for the methanol/lye mixing part. I opened my reactor bottom value and the pump started to pull the oil from the tank. It was a milky caramel color. I think maybe there was some water left in the bottom of the reactor where we had tested the whole thing to make sure everything worked and we had no leeks. It couldn't have been much but I am guessing the mixing action of the pump and recirculation caused the oil to change to the caramel color. Or is that the color it should be anyway? > > Anyway my question is this. The "book" says to heat up the oil and let it sit for a couple of days and bleed off the water that is on the bottom. That is the process I started yesterday. I heated it to at least 170 and then turned it off to let it settle out the water. But what is to be done with the residual that will always be in the bottom of the reactor? Without a drain in the immediate bottom there appears there will always be something on the bottom? Water glycerin etc. How do u get that out so it doesnt mix with your next batch? Also is the above solution the best thing to do? > > Thanks for any and all advice. WE are so close we can taste it...no pun intended. > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From Rusty_Haynes at ncsu.edu Wed May 31 09:44:13 2006 From: Rusty_Haynes at ncsu.edu (Haynes, Rusty) Date: Thu Jun 1 18:59:51 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] RE: [BCBD-Members] Bull City Coop User Profile Message-ID: <4C240F81528CF041982A912C2B43D86A205DC4@avalon.iesnet.ad.ncsu.edu> Marc -- thanks for sharing this story. I passed it along to my father, a retired general, and my brother, a cadet at West Point. How about tweaking your message and submitting it to the Independent Weekly as a contribution for the "Front Porch" section? Rusty -----Original Message----- From: Members-bounces@biodiesel.yovo.info [mailto:Members-bounces@biodiesel.yovo.info] On Behalf Of Marc Dreyfors-President Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:12 PM To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@Lists. Emji. Net; Members Subject: [BCBD-Members] Bull City Coop User Profile Hi Everyone: Thought you would like to hear this. Today, a 23 year old Marine from Lousiana came by looking for B100 on his way back to Camp Lejune, NC. He had a very nice VW Jetta TDI on which he put an SVO kit. He wanted to fill up and find a way he could get more biodiesel. He was an adament biofuels advocate, and said he had been to Baghdad and did not want to go back. He understood the value of biofuels as an alternative to fossil fuels and what our fossil fuel "addiction" was doing. His buddies called him a "hippie Marine." He, along with several other of our tank users, are military or ex-military and seem to have come to the alt. fuel world because of their experience in service to our country. We filled him a 50 gal. plastic barrel and four of us heaved it into the back seat of his TDI, putting it on a nice cardboard box to keep his seat clean. We gave him a $.20 per gallon break, which I hope the Coop will appreciate and stuffed him full of literature to take back to his buddies. We even included our "How to start a B100 Coop and Tank Trail Tank" from our website, carolinabiofuels.org. We hope that this may start a revolution down there. Maybe we should offer a special program for the military? He wasn't sure what he wanted to do with his life and asked us lots of questions about what we do and where he could go to college. We pray he doesn't have to return to the Mideast, and that he can help get more military interested in real solutions to our geopolitical problems. Marc Other news: Mk and I "christened" the B100 Tank Trail tank at Cape Fear Biofuels Coop. this weekend, being the first "outsiders" filling up in Wilmington, NC while at the beach. "Come on down, the grease is good!" _______________________________________________ Members mailing list Members@bullcitybiodiesel.org http://bullcitybiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/members_bullcitybiodiesel. org