From rickyb at rickyb.net Tue Aug 1 10:00:11 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Tue Aug 1 10:00:20 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Co-op vs LLC Message-ID: <20060801140012.F09FB13CD1B@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> HI everyone. The Winston gang is getting very close to completing everything on paper for our co-op and I have a question. On the Secretary of States' website they have a database search for corporations names in the state. The return lists the name type etc of each corporation. I noticed that only Piedmont Bio is listed as a real co-op in the type column. The others are listed as LLCs. Are there reasons we should be looking at LLC vs co-op? Our main goal was to strictly be a co-op but now I am not so sure. I know the Blue Ridge is actually listed as a LLC and its home page lists it as a community business not a co-op. The Charlotte one is listed as a LLC also. I guess I'm a little confused. I was under the impression that all were co-ops in the strictest sense of the word. I don't think these two co-op and LLC are interchangeable because I went down the LLC once before looking into a consulting business. Anyone got any ideas? Thanks From mattr at biofuels.coop Tue Aug 1 14:03:42 2006 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Tue Aug 1 13:03:25 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: FYI- tomorrow at internationist In-Reply-To: <20060801165548.8104.qmail@web52005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060801165548.8104.qmail@web52005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6C4CBD47-F210-4181-AD8B-D414714A3754@biofuels.coop> Thanks! This is a great film. We should put out the notice to the BIG list. ~Matt On Aug 1, 2006, at 12:55 PM, Rachel Hoff wrote: > Matt, > Thought this might intrest you and others you know. > Hope you are staying cool. > Rachel > > > Internationalist Books & Community Center > 405 W Franklin St > Chapel Hill, NC 27516 > 919-942-1740 > http://internationalistbooks.org/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 2, 7pm -- SCREENING 'THE POWER OF > COMMUNITY: HOW CUBA > SURVIVED PEAK OIL' @ INTERNATIONALIST > > This may not sound like a permaculture video but it > is. Permaculturists > came to Cuba and helped with urban farming. So this > video is a success > story of how permaculture and organic farming > techniques were > implemented to feed a nation. Cuba was suddenly shut > off from most of their oil > shipments when the Soviet Union broke up in the early > ?90s. Cuba is also prevented from receiving shipments > of many goods and supplies due to the US embargo. The > conventional farming techniques which relied heavily > on oil, chemical fertilizers and pesticides could not > continue. The country was forced to adopt and develop > new strategies. This film tells their story. > > The website describing the video is at > www.communitysolution.org/cuba. > The following is a review from the website: > "Everyone who is concerned about Peak Oil needs to see > this film. Cuba > survived an energy famine during the 1990s, and how it > did so > constitutes one of the most important and hopeful > stories of the past > few decades. It is a story not just of individual > achievement, but of > the collective mobilization of an entire society to > meet an enormous > challenge. Lest the point be missed, I will underscore > it: this > particular challenge ? the problem of energy scarcity > is one we will all > be facing very soon." > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > SATURDAY, AUGUST 12, 8am - 12pm -- INTERNATIONALIST > YARD SALE #2!! > > Come buy other people?s really great stuff for cheap > at our > yard sale, August 12, on Bim Street in Carrboro right > down the way from the Farmer?s Market. There?s all > sorts of things: books, clothes, furniture, and more. > Best of all, you get to take home great stuff and > support the Internationalist at the same time. > > AND DONATE! Got stuff? We need it! Bring your > donations by the > bookstore this week or drop them off Saturday morning > at the yard sale. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > SATURDAY, AUG 26 -- SECRET CAFE... > > It's still a secret. More info to come... > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > THURSDAY, SEPT 7 -- McSWEENEY'S BOOK CLUB > > That's still a secret too. More info to come.... > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > THE PRISON BOOKS COLLECTIVE NEEDS YOUR BOOKS... > FOR OUR BOOKSALE! (AND TO SEND TO PRISONERS!) > > The Prison Books Collective will be holding a book > sale at the end of > the summer and we need your books! All book donations > will be sorted > for content (some books we'll hang on to and ship to > prisoners, others > we'll put out for sale). All profits go towards > postage for shipping > books to prisoners. We're accepting all sorts of > books for the book > sale, but we're also attempting to collect specific > genres to send to > prisoners. Most requests we receive are for world, > political, & U.S. > history, self-help/how-to, and black history/lit. > Donations of all > kinds can be dropped off at Internationalist Books. > > The Prison Books Collective is a new prisoner support > group forming in > the Chapel Hill/Carrboro area. Like the dozens of > other similar groups > around the country, it will provide thousands of free > books, at request, > to prisoners throughout the southeast. By providing > educational, > political and legal resources, we can support people > behind bars, show > solidarity with their struggles, and fight against the > alienating and > destructive effects of the US prison system. > > But we need your help! We currently have a space to > work out of, but > are in need of books and money for shipping. We're > also going to need > lots of eager volunteers to help package and mail > books. If you would > like to help organize or support this great project > please go to > www.prisonbooks.info. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Aug 2 09:25:46 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Aug 2 08:25:45 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Texas: Gonzales Biodiesel Plant May Benefit Area Farmers Message-ID: <3800F590-A41D-47E4-9D6C-9C06ED2A9DDB@blast.com> Jul 31, 2006 - By Roger Croteau, Staff Writer, Express-News A Houston company is nearing completion of a new plant in Gonzales that will produce 3 million gallons of biodiesel fuel a year. The plant, which represents about a $3 million investment, will create about 10 local jobs and could generate a new market for area farmers. Construction started in February and the plant should be online in September, said GeoGreen Fuels Managing Director David Fisher. The plant is a little smaller than the average biodiesel plant, but has the ability to double its output. Plans are also on the table for a plant next door to turn soybeans, cottonseeds and sunflower seeds into oil ? the raw material the plant turns into fuel. From rickyb at rickyb.net Tue Aug 1 11:17:34 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Wed Aug 2 08:27:31 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] None Message-ID: <20060801151734.B5C454F3FD@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Thanks for all the responses and yes we are seeking legal advice. We just wanted to make more sure of our road we wish to follow. From all I have found LLC are not co-ops. They may call themselves co-ops but in the more strict sense they are not. The type listed is different and I believe so is the underlying structures/design of each. There is a different connotation in working for a co-op and working for LLC. I am not sure but if we tell people we are starting a co-op we would have people expecting to join a real co-op not an LLC. For profit businesses join a co-op for the betterment of all such as the apple co-op. Pooled together the co-op makes business better for each of the businesses and each person that is a member. Common marketing, pooled resources etc for the good of all. I am not sure an LLC is designed to operate in that fashion. I suppose it could but it would be an unusual model. We are going to try to stay a real co-op in the strictest sense of the word, I think. We asked once before about becoming a co-op but didnt get a lot of response on how to accomplish that one. I guess its because maybe not many have gone down that road. We did notice that Wilmington is a NP which is nonprofit. From derek at drblackburn.com Thu Aug 3 14:34:07 2006 From: derek at drblackburn.com (Derek R. Blackburn, PE) Date: Thu Aug 3 13:36:10 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] DARPA wants bio-"JP-8" (jet fuel) Message-ID: I have no idea how to make JP-8 equivalent biodiesel, but I am willing to help write the proposal (due 19 September) for the chance to be part of the 18-month project. http://www.darpa.mil/ato/solicit/BioFuels/index.htm I would also like to discuss making biodiesel with propanol and converting waste glycerin to propanol (I have NOT tried either yet). Derek R. Blackburn, PE D.R.Blackburn Engineering www.DRBlackburn.com 336.834.9599 (Greensboro, NC) former (early 80's) gasohol plant engineer and operator, current process automation engineer From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Thu Aug 3 19:15:41 2006 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark J Ambrose) Date: Thu Aug 3 14:15:34 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] JP-8 Fuel Message-ID: <20060803181542.18532.fh044.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> This is an interesting problem and will probably require a very different approach from conventional biodiesel technologies. JP-8 jet fuel is about 99% kerosene. (See: http://www.brooks.af.mil/afioh/Special%20Projects-Studies/rsrh_jp8_faqs.htm#4 ) That means that it is much less viscous than even petro-diesel, let alone biodiesel. I wouldn't even know what crop-based chemical to shoot for to give the right fuel properties, let alone an efficient process to produce it. But I trust that there are some chemical engineers out there who can make headway on such a project. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------- I have no idea how to make JP-8 equivalent biodiesel, but I am willing to help write the proposal (due 19 September) for the chance to be part of the 18-month project. http://www.darpa.mil/ato/solicit/BioFuels/index.htm I would also like to discuss making biodiesel with propanol and converting waste glycerin to propanol (I have NOT tried either yet). Derek R. Blackburn, PE D.R.Blackburn Engineering www.DRBlackburn.com 336.834.9599 (Greensboro, NC) former (early 80's) gasohol plant engineer and operator, current process automation engineer From Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com Thu Aug 3 15:33:06 2006 From: Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com (Long, Patrick) Date: Thu Aug 3 14:33:27 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] JP-8 Fuel Message-ID: Not sure if this article has any pertinent info: http://www.iccept.ic.ac.uk/pdfs/PRESAV%20final%20report%2003Sep03.pdf It mentions some research being done with alternative aviation fuels. I think Richard Branson of Virgin Airlines was trying fuel his jet liners with a biofuel of some sort. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Ambrose Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 2:16 PM To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net Cc: derek@drblackburn.com Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] JP-8 Fuel This is an interesting problem and will probably require a very different approach from conventional biodiesel technologies. JP-8 jet fuel is about 99% kerosene. (See: http://www.brooks.af.mil/afioh/Special%20Projects-Studies/rsrh_jp8_faqs.htm# 4 ) That means that it is much less viscous than even petro-diesel, let alone biodiesel. I wouldn't even know what crop-based chemical to shoot for to give the right fuel properties, let alone an efficient process to produce it. But I trust that there are some chemical engineers out there who can make headway on such a project. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------- I have no idea how to make JP-8 equivalent biodiesel, but I am willing to help write the proposal (due 19 September) for the chance to be part of the 18-month project. http://www.darpa.mil/ato/solicit/BioFuels/index.htm I would also like to discuss making biodiesel with propanol and converting waste glycerin to propanol (I have NOT tried either yet). Derek R. Blackburn, PE D.R.Blackburn Engineering www.DRBlackburn.com 336.834.9599 (Greensboro, NC) former (early 80's) gasohol plant engineer and operator, current process automation engineer _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From kkrebs at mindspring.com Thu Aug 3 17:11:10 2006 From: kkrebs at mindspring.com (Ken) Date: Thu Aug 3 16:11:01 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Industry Updates - Live 1-Hour Web Seminar Message-ID: <14279204.1154635871271.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> If you cannot view this message go to www.uptilt.com/content/11629/biod.html Web Seminar Date August 10, 2006 ??? 10:00 am ET Cost Complimentary Presenter Jim McCurry, Applications Scientist, Agilent Technologies, Inc. The recent run up in crude oil prices combined with disruptions in supply and refining capacity have driven the prices of motor fuels to new highs and created spot shortages throughout the world. This unfortunate development is likely to remain a fact of life for years to come. However it has given new urgency to the development of alternative, renewable fuels that not only reduce the reliance on petroleum feedstock, but may also result in reduced emissions of airborne pollutants. Biodiesel derived from plant and animal fats is one such fuel that is under consideration. This seminar will briefly examine the chemistry and production of biodiesel and discuss its properties as an alternative motor fuel. As with petroleum diesel, product specifications for quality must be accompanied by analytical methods. Industry standard GC methods from ASTM and CEN will be reviewed. Biodiesel solutions from Agilent Technologies will be presented that employ the latest technologies and advances; such as automated sample preparation, Microfluidics, and 2-Dimensional Gas Chromatography. These offer measurement solutions that are more reliable, easier-to-use, and provide results with better precision. Register today at www.agilent.com/chem/biodiesel Gulf Analytical Summit Interested in the latest applications presented by Agilent Technologies at The Gulf Analytical Summit? Visit agilent.com/chem/gas to download presentations on: All the Performance, All the Time - Liquid Phase Solutions From Column to LC to LC/MS HPI Applications with improved Precision, Reliability and Flexibility uing the new 1200 Series GPC-SEC system Comparison of ASTM D6839 (PIONA/Reformulyzer) and D6729 (DHA) Biodiesel Analysis and Trends Trace Oxygenates In gasoline - 2-D GC Approaches Columns Used for the Analysis of Refinery and Petrochemical Products by Capillary GC ??Agilent Technologies 2850 Centerville Road Wilmington DE 19808 From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Aug 3 22:29:21 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu Aug 3 21:29:16 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Who killed the electric car? References: <010f01c6b730$3d1ad640$1800a8c0@cleancities> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Tobin Freid" > Date: August 3, 2006 3:00:33 PM EDT > To: > Subject: Who killed the electric car? > > You are invited to view ?Who Killed the Electric Car? > A panel discussion will follow the movie > > August 11, 2006 > > 6:00 ? Electric and Alternative Fuel Expo > The Electric and Alternative Fuel Expo provides the opportunity to > see electric and other alternative fuel vehicles, as well as talk > to experts in a variety of related issues. This is free and will > be held in the parking lot of the Galaxy Cinema. > > 7:00 ? Who Killed the Electric Car -- Tickets can be purchased from > the Galaxy Cinema at the regular price. > ?With gasoline prices approaching $4/gallon, fossil fuel shortages, > unrest in oil producing regions around the globe and mainstream > consumer adoption and adoption of the hybrid electric car (more > than 140,000 Priuses sold this year), this story couldn't be more > relevant or important. The foremost goal in making this movie is to > educate and enlighten audiences with the story of this car, its > place in history and in the larger story of our car culture and how > it enables our continuing addiction to foreign oil. This is an > important film with an important message that not only calls to > task the officials who squelched the Zero Emission Vehicle mandate, > but all of the other accomplices, government, the car companies, > Big Oil, even Eco-darling Hydrogen as well as consumers, who turned > their backs on the car and embrace embracing instead the SUV. Our > documentary investigates the death and resurrection of the electric > car, as well as the role of renewable energy and sustainable living > in our country's future; issues which affect everyone from > progressive liberals to the neo-conservative right.? > From: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/plotsummary > > 8:45 ? Panel discussion about electric and other alternative fuel > vehicles > After the movie, a panel of experts will discuss the movie and the > state of other alternative fuel vehicles. > > For info on the Galaxy Cinema including directions > visitwww.mygalaxycinema.com/index.asp > > Tobin L. Freid > Project Coordinator for Energy and Environment > Triangle J Council of Governments > (919) 558-9400 > > -- Triangle J Council of Governments is a Best Workplace for > Commuters -- > From luxurious at earthlink.net Fri Aug 4 10:12:07 2006 From: luxurious at earthlink.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luc_Su=E8r?=) Date: Fri Aug 4 09:11:08 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] race fuel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51fd8f143ad2b5f35ce4c3a991ec4a57@earthlink.net> http://www.yanmar.co.jp/en/information/0606/20060712.htm From terhorst at email.unc.edu Fri Aug 4 15:08:03 2006 From: terhorst at email.unc.edu (Marc ter Horst) Date: Fri Aug 4 14:08:44 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] DDG/S from ethanol production Message-ID: <44D38D03.5000108@email.unc.edu> Is there a source for a small amount of distillers dried grain (DDG or DDGS) in the greater Raleigh, NC area? Maybe someone from NCSU who might have some to spare? I work in an analytical lab at UNC and would like to learn more about it's composition. Marc ter Horst From focus27514 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 7 10:41:44 2006 From: focus27514 at yahoo.com (BenHogan) Date: Mon Aug 7 12:41:16 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1990 Mercedes 350SDL for sale Message-ID: <20060807164144.51237.qmail@web56712.mail.re3.yahoo.com> this car has only 25k miles on the new rebuilt engine installed by Better Wrench in Chapel Hill. it is silver in color. The odometer shows 330k but the last 25K was on this newly installed motor. All service was done by Better Wrench since new ( I have all documentation showing everything that was done to the car). And I mean everygthing from shocks to new wiper blades were done by Better Wrench. The car has never been in an accident however, the paint is old and peeling (especially in the hood). It will most certainly need a paint job but the mechanicals are perfect for a biodiesel conversion. The car is in Carrboro. We are asking $6000. If you are interested or know someone who might be, please email me at focus27514@yahoo.com Also, the car will be advertised locally and on craigslist. Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Aug 8 12:31:51 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Aug 8 11:31:26 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Electric Car event date change References: <004401c6baef$04bd1b10$1800a8c0@cleancities> Message-ID: <65426E07-F19C-461A-AC1F-21F7B7D010AF@blast.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Tobin Freid" > Date: August 8, 2006 9:27:23 AM EDT > To: > Subject: Electric Car event date change > > Please note the change in date for the Electric/Alt Fuel car expo > and viewing of the movie Who Killed the Electric Car. This event > will now take place on August 19 at the Galaxy Cinema in Cary. > > You are invited to view ?Who Killed the Electric Car? > A panel discussion will follow the movie > > August 19, 2006 > > 6:00 ? Electric and Alternative Fuel Expo > The Electric and Alternative Fuel Expo provides the opportunity to > see electric and other alternative fuel vehicles, as well as talk > to experts in a variety of related issues. This is free and will > be held in the parking lot of the Galaxy Cinema. > > 7:00 ? Who Killed the Electric Car ? Galaxy Cinema ($7.50 adult, > $5.50 students/seniors) > ?With gasoline prices approaching $4/gallon, fossil fuel shortages, > unrest in oil producing regions around the globe and mainstream > consumer adoption and adoption of the hybrid electric car (more > than 140,000 Priuses sold this year), this story couldn't be more > relevant or important. The foremost goal in making this movie is to > educate and enlighten audiences with the story of this car, its > place in history and in the larger story of our car culture and how > it enables our continuing addiction to foreign oil. This is an > important film with an important message that not only calls to > task the officials who squelched the Zero Emission Vehicle mandate, > but all of the other accomplices, government, the car companies, > Big Oil, even Eco-darling Hydrogen as well as consumers, who turned > their backs on the car and embrace embracing instead the SUV. Our > documentary investigates the death and resurrection of the electric > car, as well as the role of renewable energy and sustainable living > in our country's future; issues which affect everyone from > progressive liberals to the neo-conservative right.? > From: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/plotsummary > > 8:45 (estimated) ? Panel discussion about electric and other > alternative fuel vehicles > After the movie, a panel of experts will discuss the movie and the > state of other alternative fuel vehicles. > > For info on the Galaxy Cinema including directions > visitwww.mygalaxycinema.com/index.asp > > Tobin L. Freid > Triangle Clean Cities Coalition Coordinator > Triangle J Council of Governments > (919) 558-9400 > From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Aug 8 12:45:06 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Aug 8 11:44:39 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] New York to House New Alternative Fuel Research Laboratory Message-ID: New York governor George Pataki and New York State Senate majority leader Joseph Bruno recently announced plans for the construction of a "state-of-the-art" alternative fuel research laboratory at the Saratoga Technology + Energy Park (STEP) as well as a new $10-million state program to convert vehicles in the state fleet to plug-in hybrids. "These new programs are important tools in our effort to develop clean and renewable fuels, promote greater energy efficiency and create jobs in the emerging energy sector," said Pataki adding that the STEP facility "will help spur the innovation necessary to transition away from a petroleum-based transportation sector." According to Pataki and Bruno, the new laboratory will develop scientific data to formulate new programs to conserve energy, diversify energy supplies, decrease dependence on imported fuels and protect the environment. The facility will conduct testing for advanced and emerging technologies such as fuel cell propulsion systems, alternative fuels and greenhouse gas reduction technologies. It will have a special focus on test systems to quantify all emissions from diesel buses and trucks, which will help to develop advanced control and retrofit technologies for these vehicles. The laboratory is also expected to promote public-private partnership projects and educational programs, including research grants, technology development and technician training applicable to emerging technologies such as alternative fuel concepts. Contact: Office of Governor Pataki, website http://www.ny.gov/governor; New York State Senate, website http://www.senate.state.ny.us. From CConnor at luckstone.com Tue Aug 8 14:00:53 2006 From: CConnor at luckstone.com (Chris . Connor) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:00:21 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825-ml.luck.net> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think that a Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I can get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Chris Connor cconnor@luckstone.com From effarm at earthlink.net Tue Aug 8 13:04:50 2006 From: effarm at earthlink.net (elise margoles) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:04:17 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help Message-ID: <25476600.1155056690535.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Please post any responses to the whole group as I am interested in learning as well. Thanks! Elise Margoles -----Original Message----- >From: "Chris . Connor" >Sent: Aug 8, 2006 12:00 PM >To: BIG >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > >I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think that a >Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I can >get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent would >be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, >Chris Connor >cconnor@luckstone.com > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From rickyb at rickyb.net Tue Aug 8 13:29:39 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:29:09 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help Message-ID: <20060808172939.A27159ECC1@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> We have both a Golf(appropriately named since Im an avid golfer) and a Beetle(my wifes). Both are diesel. Mine is a manual 5 speed. Hers an automatic. They have been extremely reliable, driveable and very very economical. I would not hesitate to drive either one on a long trip. They are much more comfortable then you would imagine. We did have a Jetta before these. It was an automatic diesel. Same with it. The bug has more room inside than one would expect. She absolutely loves it. The mileage around town is about 40 and close to 50 on the road. Our co-op group is making bio and I am using it in the Golf, soon to start in the Beetle. The turbo-diesel is excellent for both speed and for economy. In short, we love them both. If you have any specifics just ask me. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris . Connor" > To: BIG > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:00:53 -0400 > > > I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think that a > Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those > needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I can > get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast > experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, > non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent would > be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > Chris Connor > cconnor@luckstone.com > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From biodiesel at yovo.info Tue Aug 8 14:36:52 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:36:28 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help In-Reply-To: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825-ml.luck.net> References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825-ml.luck.net> Message-ID: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> Chris go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or 2004 and later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, which works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so there is less long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of PD-TDIs and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club forums on this issue: http://forums.tdiclub.com/ (Great resource!!) Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an automatic and did not like it. Grease be with you! Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris . Connor wrote: > I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think that a > Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those > needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I can > get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast > experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, > non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent would > be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > Chris Connor > cconnor@luckstone.com > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From depowell at email.unc.edu Tue Aug 8 18:28:21 2006 From: depowell at email.unc.edu (depowell@email.unc.edu) Date: Tue Aug 8 17:30:28 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help In-Reply-To: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825-ml.luck.net> <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> Message-ID: <20060808172821.thnugx2684wokw4w@webmail7.isis.unc.edu> I am in a similar situation as Chris, and am shopping for a used VW with a TDI engine, to make the switch to biofuel. QUESTION: Does anyone know of a VW model with a TDI (or PD-TDI) engine that also has all-wheel drive (AWD)? From some limited searching online, it seems that the only AWD VW's are the billion dollar Phaeton, the too-big Toureg, or the still pricey Passat. Basically, I am looking for a car with a diesel or TDI engine that is also all wheel drive. Doesn't even have to be a VW, if there is something else out there. Any suggestions??? Thanks Dana Quoting Jurgen Henn : > Chris > go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main > question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or 2004 > and later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, > which works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so there is > less long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of > PD-TDIs and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club > forums on this issue: > http://forums.tdiclub.com/ > (Great resource!!) > > Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an > independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... > > Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an automatic and > did not like it. > > Grease be with you! > > Jurgen > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jurgen Henn > 2002 Jetta TDI > 40/50 MPG on biodiesel > http://words.yovo.info/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Chris . Connor wrote: >> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think that a >> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I can >> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent would >> be greatly appreciated. >> Thanks in advance, >> Chris Connor >> cconnor@luckstone.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From rlanou at buildsense.com Tue Aug 8 18:45:11 2006 From: rlanou at buildsense.com (Randall Lanou) Date: Tue Aug 8 17:44:41 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 4wd Diesels, VW's Message-ID: Chris You can buy any full size truck in diesel and 4wd. My company has a Dodge 2500 and a Ford F250 (and a Sprinter and a VW) that we run on biodiesel. The fuel economy is only about 20 mpg with the big pick-ups. The Jeep Liberty 4wd is also available in diesel (automatic only). BTW, I recently bought a new Jetta for about 22K. That was only few grand more than I have seen 2 and 3 year old used TDI's advertised for. I love the car and thought it was a better deal. It runs perfectly on B99. Good luck. Randall Lanou BuildSense, Inc. office 919.667.0404 mobile 919.247.5430 fax 919.667.9984 "It's like boxing a glacier. Enjoy that metaphor, because your grandchildren will have no idea what a glacier is." -- Steven Colbert, Associated Press Dinner Speech. From rickyb at rickyb.net Tue Aug 8 14:06:09 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Tue Aug 8 22:59:30 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Starting a co-op Message-ID: <20060808180609.7B4A61099C0@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> We finally got an answer from the Secretary of State on how to form a co-op. I am enclosing their reply in the body of this email for anyone interested. Mail Envelope Properties (44D1EEF3.AA5 : 21 : 15013) Subject: Re: starting a coop Creation Date 8/3/2006 8:40:37 AM From: "daniel crabbe" Mr. Blevins: Cooperative Organizations are formed under Chapter 54 of the NC General Statutes. Our office does not provide a form for a cooperative organization. Please review Article 16 of Chapter 54 and Articles 18 and 19 of Chapter 54. These sections describe how to form a cooperative organization in North Carolina and the various requirements for the Articles of Incorporation. The NC General Statutes may be viewed online at www.ncleg.net. Please feel free to contact me with any further questions you may have regarding this matter. Sincerely, Daniel Crabbe Lead Examiner, Corporations Division NC Dept. of the Secretary of State From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Aug 9 00:01:33 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Aug 8 23:01:01 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Enthusiasts Battle for Used Fry Oil Message-ID: Check out this story on NPR: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5626701&ft=1&f=1006 -Rachel From michael.chrestensen at biogenidec.com Wed Aug 9 05:01:17 2006 From: michael.chrestensen at biogenidec.com (Michael Chrestensen) Date: Wed Aug 9 04:11:22 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Mike C is out, will return Monday 8/14 Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/08/2006 and will not return until 08/14/2006. For AE Issues see Tammy Burnett, Sean Stonham, or Anita Kretchman For PC questions contact Kyle Mikulis or Therese Danskin For mail issues contact Lucretia Chapman For Reconciliation Report questions contact Olisa Corcoran From bknighton at nc.rr.com Wed Aug 9 10:13:40 2006 From: bknighton at nc.rr.com (Bill Knighton) Date: Wed Aug 9 09:13:08 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] does north carolina impose any price fixing on biofuels? Message-ID: <44D9DF84.7070507@nc.rr.com> A Wisconsin station was selling E85 at $2.09/gal but state investigators demanded that they sell for $3.10 after a complaint from competitors. http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/15221047.htm If petroleum doubles again will NC also force B100 providers to "stay competitive". Is this done all over the US or is it just a Wisconsin thing? From biodiesel at yovo.info Wed Aug 9 10:57:48 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Wed Aug 9 09:57:14 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel Enthusiasts Battle for Used Fry Oil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44D9E9DC.3030607@yovo.info> Does anyone know whether transporting WVO is regulated in NC? Jurgen Rachel Burton wrote: > Check out this story on NPR: > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5626701&ft=1&f=1006 > > -Rachel > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From mattr at biofuels.coop Wed Aug 9 23:47:21 2006 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Wed Aug 9 23:49:06 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] August 10 is International Biodiesel Day Message-ID: <6A2AF0B7-2D3E-4F08-A498-9FC44BCB69A7@biofuels.coop> From Wikipedia... Historical background Transesterification of a vegetable oil was conducted as early as 1853, by scientists E. Duffy and J. Patrick, many years before the first diesel engine became functional. Rudolf Diesel's prime model, a single 10 ft (3 m) iron cylinder with a flywheel at its base, ran on its own power for the first time in Augsburg, Germany on August 10, 1893. In remembrance of this event, August 10 has been declared International Biodiesel Day. Diesel later demonstrated his engine and received the "Grand Prix" (highest prize) at the World Fair in Paris, France in 1900. This engine stood as an example of Diesel's vision because it was powered by peanut oil?a biofuel, though not strictly biodiesel, since it was not transesterified. He believed that the utilization of a biomass fuel was the real future of his engine. In a 1912 speech, Rudolf Diesel said "the use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today, but such oils may become, in the course of time, as important as petroleum and the coal-tar products of the present time." From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Aug 10 08:31:12 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu Aug 10 07:30:33 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Check out the article in Creative Loafing!!! References: <20060809215746.31782.qmail@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <253E6916-FA7F-4DED-AD64-8C154C78D19A@blast.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: Metrolina Biofuels > Date: August 9, 2006 5:57:46 PM EDT > To: metrolinabiofuels@yahoo.com > > Check out the article in Creative Loafing!!! > http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=61288Next > Meeting................. > > > Thursday, August 10 @ 7 PM > Expect BIG things! > > Energy Summit's Location > Charlotte Energy Solutions > 337 Baldwin Ave > Charlotte NC > http://charlotteenergysolutions.com/ > > Thanks, > Metrolina Biofuels > www.metrolinabiofuels.com > metrolinabiofuels@yahoo.com > > Check in with us at Google Groups for the latest info!! > http://groups.google.com/group/Metrolina-BioFuels/ > > Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta. From carolinabiofuels at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 09:12:50 2006 From: carolinabiofuels at gmail.com (Harry John Albert) Date: Thu Aug 10 08:12:11 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: vegetable oil needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, one more try. I thought it meant I was asking something inappropriate or something. Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks for the tip. Hello all, My name is John Albert. I am down in Wilmington with Cape Fear Biofuels. Rather Unexpectedly I am going to be making a round trip in my 1985 f-350 to Phoenix this coming week. Unfortunately I only have about 25 gallons of VO on hand. I am going to be scrounging up and filtering as much as I can before I leave, but if any one in Wilmington or over in the Piedmont area has a surplus for sale or free please let me know, I could route my departure through your area. Thanks a bunch! John Albert From john.bonitz at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 17:57:30 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Thu Aug 10 16:56:50 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? Message-ID: <84a57a420608101357q7d2f90c5sfc4cbe584775c87a@mail.gmail.com> Hey Dana, I'm no expert on VWs, but I'm not aware of any old ones with All Wheel Drive. However, I do recall that Audi made some AWD cars. I think they were called Quattro here in the US. I suppose Audi might even have made a few AWD cars with diesel engines! And I know that many Audi cars have the same engines as certain VWs. It is conceivable that you could search for a good condition older Audi, then have a diesel engine installed. Could be easy, could be tough. Worth asking around. There is a good Yahoo discussion group on Audi & VW Diesels: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Audi-VW-Diesels/ Cheers! -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bbjerregaarg at nc.rr.com Fri Aug 11 08:15:44 2006 From: bbjerregaarg at nc.rr.com (Beth Bjerregaard &(or) Bill Riggsbee) Date: Fri Aug 11 07:13:27 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] checkout walmart and e85 ( from Grist.org ) - http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/8/8/142320/7530 Message-ID: <003601c6bd37$7d342c60$6701a8c0@DC7HP081> http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/8/8/142320/7530 Wal-Mart's green makeover Posted by David Roberts at 2:23 PM on 08 Aug 2006 I have an op-ed on TomPaine.com today about Wal-Mart's recent green initiatives. Give it a read. I'm sure the accusations of corporate whoredom will come rolling in at any moment. I worry that, even given the copious pixels expended, my overall point was not entirely clear. So below the fold, I shall try to express it in more compact form. The basic dilemma Wal-Mart's greening poses is this: they're doing good environmental things -- real things, substantive things, despite knee-jerk dismissals from some quarters -- but they still suck on labor relations (wages, healthcare benefits, etc.). Since many progressives consider themselves both environmentalists and labor advocates, they're bound to be torn. For better or worse, though, the situations (labor and environment) are not entirely parallel. The fact is, there are many ways to green business operations that make perfect hard-headed pragmatic sense, from a purely bottom-line perspective. After all, reducing waste and improving efficiency are hallmarks of good management. The ways greens favor -- alternative energies and fuels, reduced packaging, shorter supply lines, closed-loop manufacturing -- have not been adopted on a wide scale for two reasons. First, they're just new, and business leaders, like most people, are creatures of habit and custom -- small-c conservative -- as well as frequently short-sighted. Second, such green methods have ideological connotations. They're associated with environmentalists, leftists, commies, whatnot, and business leaders are also often capital-c Conservative. They don't want to be associated with lefties. Wal-Mart is showing other businesses, in rather spectacular fashion, that those ideological connotations no longer hold, and that green innovation is smart even for large, middle-American companies. Which is an unqualified good, and to be celebrated. The labor question is different. Paying workers more, offering better benefits, really does cost businesses more. It really would eat into Wal-Mart's narrow profit margins. And, perhaps most importantly, it would disadvantage Wal-Mart relative to its retail competitors. There are benefits, of course, to having happy, healthy workers, but there's no real sign that Wal-Mart workers are any more unsatisfied or unhealthy than the average service worker. If we progressives want to improve labor standards -- and I do -- it seems to me we should be focusing on the public sphere. We should be advocating for universal, publicly funded health care, a repairing of the social safety net, a reversal of the post-Reagan decline in union law, a substantial bump in the minimum wage (which Wal-Mart's CEO supports, BTW), etc. So, for progressives to say, "sorry, you get no thanks from me until you green and improve labor standards" is to reject the good in favor of the perfect. Businesses exist to make money. We want to convince them that being green can help them make money. Defending the rights of workers has traditionally been the role of government; that's what progressives exist to fight for. I'm all for pressuring Wal-Mart to become more of an advocate for worker-friendly public policy -- their help in the fight for universal health care would be immeasurable -- but it just seems short-sighted to me to reject the positive steps they're making. (Incidentally, I had a whole section in the piece about the energy economy, which might do more to damage Wal-Mart's business model than anything advocates could do, but it was getting too long and complicated.) (So much for using fewer words.) From jmc27106 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 11 10:22:50 2006 From: jmc27106 at earthlink.net (jmc27106@earthlink.net) Date: Fri Aug 11 09:22:07 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] checkout walmart and e85 ( from Grist.org ) Message-ID: <380-220068511132250203@earthlink.net> I will continue my boycott of Wal Mart. I have a comment regarding this statement about why Wal-Mart might not pay its workers a decent wage: " It really would eat into Wal-Mart's narrow profit margins." Wal-Mart's owners are the wealthiest people in the world, and they got that way by paying poverty wages. Wal Mart is or almost is the largest employer in the US.They rival the govt, I don't know which one is first. Wal-Mart is doing two things - and they are always the leader in the "game" of business: 1.good business practices - they see the writing on the wall, they are reducing their dependence on costly energies which they know are destined to become even more costly. 2. good PR - thanks to some organizations that work full time to educate and organize the public to block Wal Mart from building in their towns and cannabalizing local businesses - Wal Mart is trying to look like a good citizen. Wal-Mart has even driven down the minimum wages in China which were only 25 cents an hour. Wal Mart gets corporate welfare while paying poor wages, little to no benefits and letting the taxpayers pay for medicaid for Wal Mart employees. The one positive lesson from Wal Mart is to show other businesses that clearly going green helps the bottom line - that is the ONLY reason Wal Mart would do it. WalMart's apparent efforts to go green do not signify any newly found conscience, just a newly found way to protect their bottom line. Joyce McCloy > [Original Message] > From: Beth Bjerregaard &(or) Bill Riggsbee > To: > Date: 8/11/2006 7:14:29 AM > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] checkout walmart and e85 ( from Grist.org )- http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/8/8/142320/7530 > > http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/8/8/142320/7530 > > > Wal-Mart's green makeover > Posted by David Roberts at 2:23 PM on 08 Aug 2006 > > I have an op-ed on TomPaine.com today about Wal-Mart's recent green > initiatives. Give it a read. I'm sure the accusations of corporate whoredom > will come rolling in at any moment. > I worry that, even given the copious pixels expended, my overall point was > not entirely clear. So below the fold, I shall try to express it in more > compact form. > The basic dilemma Wal-Mart's greening poses is this: they're doing good > environmental things -- real things, substantive things, despite knee-jerk > dismissals from some quarters -- but they still suck on labor relations > (wages, healthcare benefits, etc.). Since many progressives consider > themselves both environmentalists and labor advocates, they're bound to be > torn. > For better or worse, though, the situations (labor and environment) are not > entirely parallel. > The fact is, there are many ways to green business operations that make > perfect hard-headed pragmatic sense, from a purely bottom-line perspective. > After all, reducing waste and improving efficiency are hallmarks of good > management. The ways greens favor -- alternative energies and fuels, reduced > packaging, shorter supply lines, closed-loop manufacturing -- have not been > adopted on a wide scale for two reasons. First, they're just new, and > business leaders, like most people, are creatures of habit and custom -- > small-c conservative -- as well as frequently short-sighted. Second, such > green methods have ideological connotations. They're associated with > environmentalists, leftists, commies, whatnot, and business leaders are also > often capital-c Conservative. They don't want to be associated with lefties. > Wal-Mart is showing other businesses, in rather spectacular fashion, that > those ideological connotations no longer hold, and that green innovation is > smart even for large, middle-American companies. Which is an unqualified > good, and to be celebrated. From hogarth at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 10:41:26 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Fri Aug 11 09:40:42 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] checkout walmart and e85 ( from Grist.org ) In-Reply-To: <380-220068511132250203@earthlink.net> References: <380-220068511132250203@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3889aa560608110641u3826091eu463a7cb0d25ac4e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/11/06, jmc27106@earthlink.net wrote: > I will continue my boycott of Wal Mart. > > I have a comment regarding this statement about > why Wal-Mart might not pay its workers a decent wage: ... Please keep the discussions of wages off the list. The original post at least had some pretense of being connected - however marginally - to biofuels. Discussions about the redistribution of wealth are inappropriate here. Remember there are many here who love socialism, and others who loathe it. What we SHARE is an interest in biofuels. Bringing up a discussion of wages on the list will onyl emphasize our differences, not our common goals. Yes, it might be fun to argue about wealth redistribution. But it won't be very productive in terms of biofuels. Then a bunch of people will jump off the list in disgust, and what will have been accomplished? -- Susan Hogarth http://www.colliething.com From bbjerregaarg at nc.rr.com Fri Aug 11 10:56:35 2006 From: bbjerregaarg at nc.rr.com (Beth Bjerregaard &(or) Bill Riggsbee) Date: Fri Aug 11 09:53:57 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] CORRECT aritcle about walmart and e85 - http://www.grist.org/news/daily/2006/06/01/5/index.html Message-ID: <006101c6bd4d$f5cbe670$6701a8c0@DC7HP081> sorry .. i didnt realize there was more than one walmart article on grist that day .. and took the wrong one with out checking.. here's the E85 story -- which is what i MEANT to put on a biofuels list! sorry again, Beth http://www.grist.org/news/daily/2006/06/01/5/index.html Blend Game Wal-Mart looks into selling ethanol As part of its newfound determination to jump on the eco-bandwagon, Wal-Mart is considering selling E85, an ethanol/gasoline blend, at the gas stations it owns and operates. The mega-chain held an alternative-fuels summit for auto-industry reps, oil companies, government officials, and biofuel producers in Washington, D.C., this week. Still, Wal-Mart spokesflack Kevin Gardner stressed that Wal-Mart is not yet ready to commit to anything. Despite ethanol fanfare from federal lawmakers and steady manufacturing of flex-fuel cars that can run on E85, only about 600 of the nation's 170,000 retail gas stations sell the ethanol blend. Wal-Mart owns and operates 383 gas stations across the country; the ethanol industry hopes that the world's biggest retailer would have the clout to encourage other chains to carry E85 as well. Meanwhile, oil giant Chevron is eyeing the biofuels biz too; this week it announced a new business unit that will focus on ethanol and biodiesel. From jmc27106 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 11 10:57:53 2006 From: jmc27106 at earthlink.net (jmc27106@earthlink.net) Date: Fri Aug 11 09:57:11 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] checkout walmart and e85 ( fromGrist.org ) Message-ID: <380-22006851113575378@earthlink.net> I apologize. My message was in direct response to another. Someone posted a message that what a shame it would be if the public did not reward Walmart's good works. I thought it important to point out that Walmart's going green was purely out of bottom line. ****Please remove me from the list. And good luck to you all. Regards; Joyce McCloy Founder, NC Coalition for Verified Voting 336-794-1240 jmc27106@earthlink.net www.ncvoter.net > [Original Message] > From: Susan Hogarth > To: > Cc: ; Beth Bjerregaard &(or) Bill Riggsbee > Date: 8/11/2006 9:41:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] checkout walmart and e85 ( fromGrist.org ) > > On 8/11/06, jmc27106@earthlink.net wrote: > > I will continue my boycott of Wal Mart. > > > > I have a comment regarding this statement about > > why Wal-Mart might not pay its workers a decent wage: > ... > > Please keep the discussions of wages off the list. The original post > at least had some pretense of being connected - however marginally - > to biofuels. Discussions about the redistribution of wealth are > inappropriate here. > From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org Fri Aug 11 09:47:59 2006 From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Clifford Dyer) Date: Fri Aug 11 10:47:16 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Leaving the BIG list. Message-ID: <20060811144759.GA11472@sdf.lonestar.org> OK, Folks. I'm unsubscribing from the BIG list. It's just not adding anything but clutter to my inbox anymore. I don't have the time to keep up with it, nor do I have the inclination to follow every link that might have something to do with biofuels. Maybe if there were as SMALL list, I'd stick around for that. Adios. From CConnor at luckstone.com Fri Aug 11 12:05:26 2006 From: CConnor at luckstone.com (Chris . Connor) Date: Fri Aug 11 11:04:40 2006 Subject: FW: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Leaving the BIG list. Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F84622@5825-ml.luck.net> Kids, There's way too much bad energy on the list today. The reason for this list is way too important to get caught up with roasting everybody else. We all need to stop complaining about small things and keep positive energy about the main topic. PLAY NICE and keep the faith, we'll get there. C2 -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of J. Clifford Dyer Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:48 AM To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Leaving the BIG list. OK, Folks. I'm unsubscribing from the BIG list. It's just not adding anything but clutter to my inbox anymore. I don't have the time to keep up with it, nor do I have the inclination to follow every link that might have something to do with biofuels. Maybe if there were as SMALL list, I'd stick around for that. Adios. _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. ______________________________________________________________________ From john.bonitz at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 13:30:36 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Fri Aug 11 12:29:53 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] new ethanol plant to be sited in old paper factory Message-ID: <84a57a420608110930x6488060dh11e80118ccad3325@mail.gmail.com> I like the fact that they're recycling an old paper plant... Xethanol Expands To The Carolinas; Company Forms BlueRidgeXethanol LLC to Expand into New Region Xethanol Corporation announced that it has organized BlueRidgeXethanol, LLC to spearhead Xethanol's expansion into the Carolinas. BlueRidge has entered into a definitive agreement to acquire its first production plant. The facility, located in Spring Hope, North Carolina, is a former medium-density fiberboard factory. The plant has an excellent existing infrastructure that can readily be converted to production of ethanol. It will be re-engineered to support a 35 million gallons per year plant. The company, presently known as Carolina Fiberboard, will become a wholly owned subsidiary of BlueRidge and change its name to Spring Hope BioFuels, LLC. From moldylocks at nc.rr.com Fri Aug 11 19:10:08 2006 From: moldylocks at nc.rr.com (Wayne Edmonds) Date: Fri Aug 11 18:11:47 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? In-Reply-To: <84a57a420608101357q7d2f90c5sfc4cbe584775c87a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002e01c6bd92$e8a462c0$fed94147@wedmondshome> The VW version of the Quattro was called 4-Motion & they sold Passats with the 4-motion system a few years back. I'm not aware of any 4-Motion TDI's though... -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of John Bonitz Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:58 PM To: Dana Powell; BIG Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? Hey Dana, I'm no expert on VWs, but I'm not aware of any old ones with All Wheel Drive. However, I do recall that Audi made some AWD cars. I think they were called Quattro here in the US. I suppose Audi might even have made a few AWD cars with diesel engines! And I know that many Audi cars have the same engines as certain VWs. It is conceivable that you could search for a good condition older Audi, then have a diesel engine installed. Could be easy, could be tough. Worth asking around. There is a good Yahoo discussion group on Audi & VW Diesels: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Audi-VW-Diesels/ Cheers! -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From pdowker at mac.com Fri Aug 11 19:15:32 2006 From: pdowker at mac.com (Peter Dowker) Date: Fri Aug 11 18:15:05 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? In-Reply-To: <002e01c6bd92$e8a462c0$fed94147@wedmondshome> References: <002e01c6bd92$e8a462c0$fed94147@wedmondshome> Message-ID: <6A29BFA5-A0EE-4AA8-A52B-B437A088EAA1@mac.com> There are a wide variety of diesels offered in Europe for the Audi and VW product lines. However, VWOA/AoA have chosen to import VERY few. There are quattro Audi's all over Europe running diesel. On Aug 11, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Wayne Edmonds wrote: > The VW version of the Quattro was called 4-Motion & they sold > Passats with > the 4-motion system a few years back. I'm not aware of any 4- > Motion TDI's > though... > > -----Original Message----- > From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net > [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf > Of John > Bonitz > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:58 PM > To: Dana Powell; BIG > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? > > Hey Dana, > > I'm no expert on VWs, but I'm not aware of any old ones with All Wheel > Drive. > > However, I do recall that Audi made some AWD cars. I think they were > called Quattro here in the US. I suppose Audi might even have made a > few AWD cars with diesel engines! And I know that many Audi cars have > the same engines as certain VWs. It is conceivable that you could > search for a good condition older Audi, then have a diesel engine > installed. Could be easy, could be tough. Worth asking around. > > There is a good Yahoo discussion group on Audi & VW Diesels: > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Audi-VW-Diesels/ > > Cheers! > > -- > John Bonitz > Silk Hope, NC > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From panthercat at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 19:32:06 2006 From: panthercat at gmail.com (Carlos Thompson) Date: Fri Aug 11 18:31:19 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? In-Reply-To: <6A29BFA5-A0EE-4AA8-A52B-B437A088EAA1@mac.com> References: <002e01c6bd92$e8a462c0$fed94147@wedmondshome> <6A29BFA5-A0EE-4AA8-A52B-B437A088EAA1@mac.com> Message-ID: <4b6e46c90608111532k525871ffmb2f0b3fce541e902@mail.gmail.com> I spoke to Leith Audi last year before purchasing my VW Jetta TDI, and they said Audi will introduce their TDI's in America in 2007. (Hopefully this hasn't changed) This is why they are pushing the visibility of the Audi R10 TDI in the American LeMans circuit, to get Americans to look at diesels differently. The baddest TDI that ever was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10 -Carlos On 8/11/06, Peter Dowker wrote: > There are a wide variety of diesels offered in Europe for the Audi > and VW product lines. However, VWOA/AoA have chosen to import VERY few. > There are quattro Audi's all over Europe running diesel. > > On Aug 11, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Wayne Edmonds wrote: > > > The VW version of the Quattro was called 4-Motion & they sold > > Passats with > > the 4-motion system a few years back. I'm not aware of any 4- > > Motion TDI's > > though... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net > > [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf > > Of John > > Bonitz > > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:58 PM > > To: Dana Powell; BIG > > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? > > > > Hey Dana, > > > > I'm no expert on VWs, but I'm not aware of any old ones with All Wheel > > Drive. > > > > However, I do recall that Audi made some AWD cars. I think they were > > called Quattro here in the US. I suppose Audi might even have made a > > few AWD cars with diesel engines! And I know that many Audi cars have > > the same engines as certain VWs. It is conceivable that you could > > search for a good condition older Audi, then have a diesel engine > > installed. Could be easy, could be tough. Worth asking around. > > > > There is a good Yahoo discussion group on Audi & VW Diesels: > > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Audi-VW-Diesels/ > > > > Cheers! > > > > -- > > John Bonitz > > Silk Hope, NC > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From panthercat at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 11:40:47 2006 From: panthercat at gmail.com (Carlos Thompson) Date: Fri Aug 11 20:40:00 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? In-Reply-To: <8AB8D8A0-8C6C-4D1F-B64B-19FF50F81ED9@mac.com> References: <002e01c6bd92$e8a462c0$fed94147@wedmondshome> <6A29BFA5-A0EE-4AA8-A52B-B437A088EAA1@mac.com> <4b6e46c90608111532k525871ffmb2f0b3fce541e902@mail.gmail.com> <8AB8D8A0-8C6C-4D1F-B64B-19FF50F81ED9@mac.com> Message-ID: <4b6e46c90608111740k7b8846d7pc91fd8b20c449fc6@mail.gmail.com> Very True! I guess they thought diesels would not sell well in the US. That has changed i guess! Leith also said it would be impossible to import a diesel Audi/VW from Europe... Have a good weekend everyone! On 8/12/06, Peter Dowker wrote: > well, yeah, but it's not as though they haven't been selling oodles > of them in Europe for a long time... > They just haven't bothered to EPA/DOT them until now. > > On Aug 11, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Carlos Thompson wrote: > > > I spoke to Leith Audi last year before purchasing my VW Jetta TDI, and > > they said Audi will introduce their TDI's in America in 2007. > > (Hopefully this hasn't changed) > > > > This is why they are pushing the visibility of the Audi R10 TDI in the > > American LeMans circuit, to get Americans to look at diesels > > differently. > > > > The baddest TDI that ever was: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10 > > > > -Carlos > > > > > > On 8/11/06, Peter Dowker wrote: > >> There are a wide variety of diesels offered in Europe for the Audi > >> and VW product lines. However, VWOA/AoA have chosen to import VERY > >> few. > >> There are quattro Audi's all over Europe running diesel. > >> > >> On Aug 11, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Wayne Edmonds wrote: > >> > >> > The VW version of the Quattro was called 4-Motion & they sold > >> > Passats with > >> > the 4-motion system a few years back. I'm not aware of any 4- > >> > Motion TDI's > >> > though... > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net > >> > [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf > >> > Of John > >> > Bonitz > >> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:58 PM > >> > To: Dana Powell; BIG > >> > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] All Wheel Drive VWs? > >> > > >> > Hey Dana, > >> > > >> > I'm no expert on VWs, but I'm not aware of any old ones with All > >> Wheel > >> > Drive. > >> > > >> > However, I do recall that Audi made some AWD cars. I think they > >> were > >> > called Quattro here in the US. I suppose Audi might even have > >> made a > >> > few AWD cars with diesel engines! And I know that many Audi > >> cars have > >> > the same engines as certain VWs. It is conceivable that you could > >> > search for a good condition older Audi, then have a diesel engine > >> > installed. Could be easy, could be tough. Worth asking around. > >> > > >> > There is a good Yahoo discussion group on Audi & VW Diesels: > >> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Audi-VW-Diesels/ > >> > > >> > Cheers! > >> > > >> > -- > >> > John Bonitz > >> > Silk Hope, NC > >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Aug 14 21:00:44 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon Aug 14 19:59:47 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Xethanol Forms BlueRidgeXethanol to Expand Into Carolinas Message-ID: Xethanol Corporation recently announced it has organized BlueRidgeXethanol, LLC in an effort to spearhead Xethanol's expansion into the Carolinas. BlueRidgeXethanol has entered into a definitive agreement to acquire its first production plant -- a 35-million-gallon-per-year facility located in Spring Hope, NC that will use local hardwood chips and wood waste to produce approximately 5 million gallons of the alternative fuel in its first six months. The plant was previously a fiberboard factory, and Xethanol said it plans to deploy established forest products processing technologies, leveraging the plant's existing pulp digesters. "We believe that the technology that drives this plant will enable us to use feedstocks that are less expensive than corn and to efficiently convert local forest products to ethanol," said Xethanol chairman and CEO Christopher d'Arnaud-Taylor. Contact: Xethanol, website http://www.xethanol.com. From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Aug 14 21:02:54 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon Aug 14 20:01:58 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Xethanol Forms BlueRidgeXethanol to Expand Into Carolinas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: sorry for the double post. I didn't see John's previous post On Aug 14, 2006, at 8:00 PM, Rachel Burton wrote: > > Xethanol Corporation recently announced it has organized > BlueRidgeXethanol, LLC in an effort to spearhead Xethanol's > expansion into the Carolinas. > > BlueRidgeXethanol has entered into a definitive agreement to > acquire > its first production plant -- a 35-million-gallon-per-year > facility > located in Spring Hope, NC that will use local hardwood chips and > wood waste to produce approximately 5 million gallons of the > alternative fuel in its first six months. > > The plant was previously a fiberboard factory, and Xethanol > said it > plans to deploy established forest products processing > technologies, > leveraging the plant's existing pulp digesters. > > "We believe that the technology that drives this plant will > enable > us to use feedstocks that are less expensive than corn and to > efficiently convert local forest products to ethanol," said > Xethanol > chairman and CEO Christopher d'Arnaud-Taylor. > > Contact: Xethanol, website http://www.xethanol.com. > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Aug 10 11:30:37 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon Aug 14 20:03:57 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: ULSD/Biodiesel Workshop in Salisbury References: <6D29349473E22449865356FEE7CE18498699EB@CCOGSBS1.ccogdom1.local> Message-ID: > See attached announcement about an free informational workshop in > Salisbury on Aug 23 2:00-4:00 about ULSD/Biodiesel and fuel additives > > Please forward to others that may be interested in attending > > Thanks! > > > > Anne Tazewell > > Transportation Program Manager > > North Carolina Solar Center/NCSU > > Box 7902 > > Raleigh, NC 27695-7902 > > Phone: 919-513-7831 > > Fax: 919-515-6159 > > Email: anne_tazewell@ncsu.edu > > > > Visit www.NCAltfuels.blogspot.com - > > a forum for alternative fuels and advanced transportation > technologies in North Carolina > > > From: Bill Wallin [mailto:bwallin@carolina.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:14 AM > To: Tazewell, Anne > Subject: ULSD/Biodiesel Workshop > > > > Goodmorning Anne, > > > > Thank you for your time on the phone this morning. I am pleased to > send this attachment of LUBE TALK, that went all over the nation of > the article in the Salisbury Post and Superior Oil Company treating > Diesel & Biodiesel for added lubricity and thermal stability, etc. > I failed to mention that the fuel treatment that is in the fuel > exceeds the performance standards outlined by the EMA with ratings > of less than 10. > > > > I hope you will be able to attend our workshop. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Bill Wallin > > Independent Lubrication Consultant > > Texas Refinery Corp. > > > > P.O. Box 1613 > > Salisbury, NC 28145 > > Cell: 704-213-4990 > > email: bwallin@carolina.rr.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Aug 16 08:39:54 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Aug 16 07:38:53 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: the truck References: <745ea9023d17e1021e1c749ce3957b7c@email.unc.edu> Message-ID: For sale. Contact phone below. Begin forwarded message: > From: Will Mackin > Date: August 16, 2006 7:32:34 AM EDT > To: John Bonitz , Rachel Burton > > Subject: Fwd: the truck > > I would like to post this truck on the listserve for vehicles. How > do I go about that? > > Will > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Larry Boles" >> Date: August 15, 2006 11:32:54 PM EDT >> To: mackin@email.unc.edu >> Subject: the truck >> >> Will, >> >> Feel free to pass on the details about Truckasaurus. I can be >> contacted at this email address, at home at 794-3442 or on my cell >> at 512-964-1155. >> >> >> The basics: >> >> 1987 GMC truck >> 6.2 liter diesel (non-turbo) >> Automatic trans w/overdrive >> Gets 18-20 mpg >> long bed model with fiberglass camper top and bedliner >> approx 190,000 >> >> The gory details: >> >> This truck has served me well and recently moved me and a lot of >> stuff from Austin TX to the Triangle. The truck was originally a >> real cream puff. It has the "High Sierra" package meaning it has >> power doors, windows, cruise tilt, etc. Over the years the windows >> have been a little sticky, requiring periodic lubrication. The >> door lock switch on the passenger's side is a little flaky. The >> stereo I added is not professional installed by any stretch of the >> imagination but works well. The heat works great and I replaced >> the heater core not long after I bought it. The A/C does not >> currently work but I have a new compressor for it (long story). >> >> The body is in fair shape for a truck of this age. It has the >> typical 80's GM paint job. Brown and yellow earthtones will remind >> you that you are kicking it old school. The only really bad paint >> is on the cab top. I've probably waxed it three times in 8 years. >> >> The engine is the picture of simplicity. It powered the first >> military version of the Hummer. The only electronic piece on the >> engine is the black box that controls the glow plug cycling and I >> have added a manual switch that will allow bypassing if necessary. >> There is a large community devoted keeping the GMC diesel running >> that can be found at http://www.thedieselpage.com/ The engine >> compartment has room to store a deer if you happen to hit one and >> thus is easy to work inside. I've fiddled with the glow plug >> circuit, replaced a vacuum pump, and changed numerous fuel filters >> but have never had to touch much else under the hood. I have to >> occasionally add powersteering fluid but I have never been able to >> find a leak. The transmission and brake fluid levels don't require >> special attention. >> >> The truck has two batteries for good starting power even on cold >> days. I've never had it not start on cold days. It has a block >> heater that I use if temps will be in the teens and a plug is >> nearby, but it is not necessary. >> >> The transmission was rebuilt at around 100,000 and the fluid has >> been changed regularly since then. The 700r is not the greatest >> tranny in history and the truck doesn't have an auxillary >> transmission cooler so it would not be good for towing your 10,000 >> # horse trailer. The truck does have a reciever hitch and is quite >> capable of towing especially at speeds below 65 mph. I would not >> recommend ever towing a trailer in overdrive. >> >> The truck has two ~16 gallon "saddle bag" gas tanks that are >> switched from a rocker on the dash. HOWEVER, the driver's side >> tank has a leak and I have been advised that the tank is probably >> rusted through. For the last couple of months I have been using >> only the passenger side tank. The truck has run on B20 biodiesel >> for several years but has not been updated to run B100. >> >> Please contact me if you have any questions or want to see the truck. >> >> Larry >> From wooster at coastalnet.com Wed Aug 16 14:20:50 2006 From: wooster at coastalnet.com (wooster@coastalnet.com) Date: Wed Aug 16 13:19:42 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Question Message-ID: <2499331.1155748850612.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I am working on an appleseed processor presently and had an idea. I have an 83 Mercedes 300DT. My oil source uses canola oil which is still liquid at summer time temperatures. I have made a couple of small batches. The oil is poured when it is at 300 degrees so I don't think water would be a problem. I was wondering why I coudn't take the raw oil filter it through a marine diesel canister filter and use it straight in my car during the summer when the outside temperature is high. I am undecided now whether to go the biodlesel route or install an Elsbett kit and use SVO. If this works I could still use the oil and experiment a bit to see which way to go. I have limited space for a processor Ben ----- From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 16:28:40 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed Aug 16 15:27:34 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: the truck In-Reply-To: <745ea9023d17e1021e1c749ce3957b7c@email.unc.edu> References: <745ea9023d17e1021e1c749ce3957b7c@email.unc.edu> Message-ID: <84a57a420608161228p487ebfc1g49bf2e600c5bde92@mail.gmail.com> If interested, please respond to Larry Boles directly. Thanks! John > From: "Larry Boles" > Date: August 15, 2006 11:32:54 PM EDT > To: mackin@email.unc.edu > Subject: the truck > > Will, > > Feel free to pass on the details about Truckasaurus. I can be > contacted at this email address, at home at 794-3442 or on my cell at > 512-964-1155. > > > The basics: > > 1987 GMC truck > 6.2 liter diesel (non-turbo) > Automatic trans w/overdrive > Gets 18-20 mpg > long bed model with fiberglass camper top and bedliner > approx 190,000 > > The gory details: > > This truck has served me well and recently moved me and a lot of stuff > from Austin TX to the Triangle. The truck was originally a real cream > puff. It has the "High Sierra" package meaning it has power doors, > windows, cruise tilt, etc. Over the years the windows have been a > little sticky, requiring periodic lubrication. The door lock switch on > the passenger's side is a little flaky. The stereo I added is not > professional installed by any stretch of the imagination but works > well. The heat works great and I replaced the heater core not long > after I bought it. The A/C does not currently work but I have a new > compressor for it (long story). > > The body is in fair shape for a truck of this age. It has the typical > 80's GM paint job. Brown and yellow earthtones will remind you that > you are kicking it old school. The only really bad paint is on the cab > top. I've probably waxed it three times in 8 years. > > The engine is the picture of simplicity. It powered the first military > version of the Hummer. The only electronic piece on the engine is the > black box that controls the glow plug cycling and I have added a > manual switch that will allow bypassing if necessary. There is a large > community devoted keeping the GMC diesel running that can be found at > http://www.thedieselpage.com/ The engine compartment has room to > store a deer if you happen to hit one and thus is easy to work inside. > I've fiddled with the glow plug circuit, replaced a vacuum pump, and > changed numerous fuel filters but have never had to touch much else > under the hood. I have to occasionally add powersteering fluid but I > have never been able to find a leak. The transmission and brake fluid > levels don't require special attention. > > The truck has two batteries for good starting power even on cold days. > I've never had it not start on cold days. It has a block heater that I > use if temps will be in the teens and a plug is nearby, but it is not > necessary. > > The transmission was rebuilt at around 100,000 and the fluid has been > changed regularly since then. The 700r is not the greatest tranny in > history and the truck doesn't have an auxillary transmission cooler so > it would not be good for towing your 10,000 # horse trailer. The truck > does have a reciever hitch and is quite capable of towing especially > at speeds below 65 mph. I would not recommend ever towing a trailer in > overdrive. > > The truck has two ~16 gallon "saddle bag" gas tanks that are switched > from a rocker on the dash. HOWEVER, the driver's side tank has a leak > and I have been advised that the tank is probably rusted through. For > the last couple of months I have been using only the passenger side > tank. The truck has run on B20 biodiesel for several years but has not > been updated to run B100. > > Please contact me if you have any questions or want to see the truck. > > Larry > -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Join with me in marching to http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/ From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 16:41:43 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed Aug 16 15:40:35 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: the truck Message-ID: <84a57a420608161241x69c8dd69n742278843037d032@mail.gmail.com> Ooops. Sorry for the duplication. Rachel and I are practicing walking in one anothers footsteps. It's a zen thing. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 16:45:35 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed Aug 16 15:44:27 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on Xethanol plant Message-ID: <84a57a420608161245s21dc21c9yc480c10d5d92dd25@mail.gmail.com> More on the Xethanol plant in Spring Hope. Collaborating with NREL. Sounds like they're pushing the envelope: Ethanol from wood chips. What they say about the process sounds like they'll be treating the cellulose as a waste product. Could be well situated to integrate cellulosic-ethanol technologies, once they mature. http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/471371.html -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Join with me in marching to http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/ From rpace at dot.state.nc.us Wed Aug 16 21:01:06 2006 From: rpace at dot.state.nc.us (rpace@dot.state.nc.us) Date: Wed Aug 16 15:59:53 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Question In-Reply-To: <2499331.1155748850612.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2499331.1155748850612.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <460878635-1155758460-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-14892270-@bwe056-cell00.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Ben. I am currently doing something similar while I fabricate a bigger processor. I have a 1997 ford with a 7.3 liter. I make bio but at 25 gallons ( the time I spend a lot of time making it. Hence why I am making a 1000 gallon processor. In the mean time I am runnig. Mixture of 25 % diesel and 75 % waste oil hich I have filtered down to 10 microns. It comes out to .75 per gallon and is very quick. The down side is that you can only do this 9 months out of year. I also have to change filter every three tanks which is about 10 dollars. Call me at 2912319 to discuss some more. I am interested in your thinking Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless device -----Original Message----- From: wooster@coastalnet.com Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:20:50 To:Rachel Burton , BIG Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Question I am working on an appleseed processor presently and had an idea. I have an 83 Mercedes 300DT. My oil source uses canola oil which is still liquid at summer time temperatures. I have made a couple of small batches. The oil is poured when it is at 300 degrees so I don't think water would be a problem. I was wondering why I coudn't take the raw oil filter it through a marine diesel canister filter and use it straight in my car during the summer when the outside temperature is high. I am undecided now whether to go the biodlesel route or install an Elsbett kit and use SVO. If this works I could still use the oil and experiment a bit to see which way to go. I have limited space for a processor Ben ----- _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From imru at usa.com Thu Aug 17 00:38:55 2006 From: imru at usa.com (RP M) Date: Thu Aug 17 01:09:16 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Question Message-ID: <20060817043855.D5194BA503@ws3-2.us4.outblaze.com> Hi Ben, I am also working on my processor and looking for a good source of methanol (help), and have an '83 300TD (wagon), which I have installed a Racor 500FG marine filter. Taking advantage of the warm weather, for the last 1500+ miles, I have been running WVO which I settle, heat to 300F, then blend with 10% RUG (regular unleaded gas) and a 1oz Turpintine & Acetone per 10 gallon, then run it through a 2 micron in the Racor. The engine is running the quietest and smoothest in the three years I've been running on dino and B20, but there is a slight loss of power (poor cetane in the RUG?) and I have to crank it an extra turn or two. I found that blending with dino (pump diesel) was giving me a waxy buildup on my filter. After experimenting with blends, I get 400 miles per filter ($7+/-). I figure maybe I'm paying 40 cents a gallon, not including my time spent schlepping (collecting, settling, filtering, etc)...AND I'M CUTTING DOWN ON ALL THE CRAP EXPELLED INTO OUR ENVIRONMENT AND MONEY TO THE OIL COMPANIES! For more info, links, pictures get back me at imru@usa.com 'cause this is maybe kind of off-topic for this list (I guess?), and I don't want to clutter it...unless everyone is interested. Richard U in the Fuquay area wooster@coastalnet.com wrote: I am working on an appleseed processor presently and had an idea. I have an 83 Mercedes 300DT. My oil source uses canola oil which is still liquid at summer time temperatures. I have made a couple of small batches. The oil is poured when it is at 300 degrees so I don't think water would be a problem. I was wondering why I coudn't take the raw oil filter it through a marine diesel canister filter and use it straight in my car during the summer when the outside temperature is high. I am undecided now whether to go the biodlesel route or install an Elsbett kit and use SVO. If this works I could still use the oil and experiment a bit to see which way to go. I have limited space for a processor Ben -- ___________________________________________________ Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/ From JOHNS at clarion.edu Thu Aug 17 10:36:42 2006 From: JOHNS at clarion.edu (Tony Johns) Date: Thu Aug 17 09:46:08 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Filters In-Reply-To: <460878635-1155758460-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-14892270-@bwe056-cell00.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <0J4500C4Y9V9AP@earth.clarion.edu> When someone speaks of filtering SVO or another liquid and they state something like "I'm filtering down to 10 microns", how do they know this? Are they buying special filters that specify their quality or are they using some type of standard filter and estimating its filtering capabilities? On my diesel tank at home I have a standard in-line transparent filter with cartridge, is there anyway to know its filtering capability? After all these questions it seems one of the previous posters answered a question I had. He stated something to the effect that he was running 25% Diesel and 75% SVO during the summer months. Has anyone else tried this? Being in southern GA can I do this during the warmer months with my farm tractor? Also, does anyone have a list of other combinations that work in diesel engines? I've heard that 80% SVO and 20% Kerosene will work as well. I would really appreciate any information that people can spare on this. Thanks; Tony Johns From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Aug 17 13:12:52 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu Aug 17 12:11:40 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] GSPI to Build Nearly Carbon-Neutral Biodiesel Plant Message-ID: Green Star Products, Inc. (GSPI) recently announced plans to build a new biodiesel plant that will emit almost zero net carbon dioxide (CO2) from direct plant production of the alternative fuel. The facility will be located in Glenns Ferry, ID. GSPI said it will use its proprietary continuous flow waterless process, which requires less than one-third the electrical energy to operate compared to existing batch plants. The company will also furnish its own electric generators, which will run on biodiesel produced at the facility, with the existing electrical utility connections only serving as an emergency backup service. Additionally, GSPI will run its boilers, which will only serve as a backup heat source for the plant, solely on biodiesel. The facility is located within 200 yards of a co-generation power plant, and GSPI is in negotiations to utilize some of the waste heat from that plant. GSPI will use ethanol to process biodiesel, instead of methanol. According to GSPI, part of the Idaho facilities will house an ethanol research facility, which will produce ethanol from a variety of waste products including cellulose ethanol made from switchgrass, wood chips and a variety of waste stalks from local farms. Contact: Joseph LaStella, GSPI, phone 619-864-4010, e-mail info@greenstarusa.com. From cfholt at buncombe.main.nc.us Wed Aug 16 00:32:31 2006 From: cfholt at buncombe.main.nc.us (cathy holt) Date: Thu Aug 17 12:12:28 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Wanted: Used diesel car in good working condition References: Message-ID: <01e401c6c0e7$ad4c1260$6e67ec48@toshi> Dear Biofuels Interest Group, If anyone knows of any used diesel cars, near Asheville, we are looking to purchase a few to start a regional "Green Transit" service (like a jitney service, filling in the gaps left by the current bus system). Many thanks! Cathy Holt From david at biofuels.coop Thu Aug 17 11:09:25 2006 From: david at biofuels.coop (C. David Thornton) Date: Thu Aug 17 12:12:32 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: [Biofuels Workers] Fwd: the truck In-Reply-To: <84a57a420608161228p487ebfc1g49bf2e600c5bde92@mail.gmail.com> References: <745ea9023d17e1021e1c749ce3957b7c@email.unc.edu> <84a57a420608161228p487ebfc1g49bf2e600c5bde92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49203.66.207.93.145.1155823765.squirrel@isp.emji.net> I wouldn't touch a GMC 6.2 with 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ft pole. I've got some friends with 'em and they have constant engine maintenance, most with the injector pump and fuel delivery system. > If interested, please respond to Larry Boles directly. > Thanks! > John > >> From: "Larry Boles" >> Date: August 15, 2006 11:32:54 PM EDT >> To: mackin@email.unc.edu >> Subject: the truck >> >> Will, >> >> Feel free to pass on the details about Truckasaurus. I can be >> contacted at this email address, at home at 794-3442 or on my cell at >> 512-964-1155. >> >> >> The basics: >> >> 1987 GMC truck >> 6.2 liter diesel (non-turbo) >> Automatic trans w/overdrive >> Gets 18-20 mpg >> long bed model with fiberglass camper top and bedliner >> approx 190,000 >> >> The gory details: >> >> This truck has served me well and recently moved me and a lot of stuff >> from Austin TX to the Triangle. The truck was originally a real cream >> puff. It has the "High Sierra" package meaning it has power doors, >> windows, cruise tilt, etc. Over the years the windows have been a >> little sticky, requiring periodic lubrication. The door lock switch on >> the passenger's side is a little flaky. The stereo I added is not >> professional installed by any stretch of the imagination but works >> well. The heat works great and I replaced the heater core not long >> after I bought it. The A/C does not currently work but I have a new >> compressor for it (long story). >> >> The body is in fair shape for a truck of this age. It has the typical >> 80's GM paint job. Brown and yellow earthtones will remind you that >> you are kicking it old school. The only really bad paint is on the cab >> top. I've probably waxed it three times in 8 years. >> >> The engine is the picture of simplicity. It powered the first military >> version of the Hummer. The only electronic piece on the engine is the >> black box that controls the glow plug cycling and I have added a >> manual switch that will allow bypassing if necessary. There is a large >> community devoted keeping the GMC diesel running that can be found at >> http://www.thedieselpage.com/ The engine compartment has room to >> store a deer if you happen to hit one and thus is easy to work inside. >> I've fiddled with the glow plug circuit, replaced a vacuum pump, and >> changed numerous fuel filters but have never had to touch much else >> under the hood. I have to occasionally add powersteering fluid but I >> have never been able to find a leak. The transmission and brake fluid >> levels don't require special attention. >> >> The truck has two batteries for good starting power even on cold days. >> I've never had it not start on cold days. It has a block heater that I >> use if temps will be in the teens and a plug is nearby, but it is not >> necessary. >> >> The transmission was rebuilt at around 100,000 and the fluid has been >> changed regularly since then. The 700r is not the greatest tranny in >> history and the truck doesn't have an auxillary transmission cooler so >> it would not be good for towing your 10,000 # horse trailer. The truck >> does have a reciever hitch and is quite capable of towing especially >> at speeds below 65 mph. I would not recommend ever towing a trailer in >> overdrive. >> >> The truck has two ~16 gallon "saddle bag" gas tanks that are switched >> from a rocker on the dash. HOWEVER, the driver's side tank has a leak >> and I have been advised that the tank is probably rusted through. For >> the last couple of months I have been using only the passenger side >> tank. The truck has run on B20 biodiesel for several years but has not >> been updated to run B100. >> >> Please contact me if you have any questions or want to see the truck. >> >> Larry >> > > > > -- > John Bonitz > Silk Hope, NC > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Join with me in marching to http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Workers mailing list > Workers@lists.biofuels.coop > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/workers > -- David Thornton Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop (703) 347-4599 From n4hgz at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 17 19:17:03 2006 From: n4hgz at bellsouth.net (Eric) Date: Thu Aug 17 18:15:57 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1995 e 300 d Mercedes biodiesel Message-ID: <44E4EADF.2090108@bellsouth.net> Hello, I am new to your group, I would like to get some information on running my 1995 e 300 d Mercedes on biodiesel. I have joined the local club and have asked them and no one knew about my specific car. I understand that it would be better to run biodiesel than to convert my car and run straight veg oil. I was wondering what if any fuel lines I should replace and if I should install an additional fuel filter in my car. Has anyone used biodiesel in one of these cars? I don't want to do anything wrong and dammage my fuel system. Thank you, Eric From skepticbill at mac.com Thu Aug 17 23:39:43 2006 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Thu Aug 17 22:38:45 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 1995 e 300 d Mercedes biodiesel In-Reply-To: <44E4EADF.2090108@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Hey Eric, I have a 1998 E300 Turbodiesel that I bought 2 weeks before Katrina hit last year. Since the car was new to me I spent about a month running her on straight diesel to get a baseline for how she drove. Then I started slowly adding bio to dino. I'd wait till she had 3/4 tank and I'd top off with bio. So I was I was running B25. Then, when she dropped to 3/4 again I topped off with bio again. I estimate that was about B40. I stayed at that level for a while then went to B50 for a few tankfuls. Now, it's B100 all the time. I changed the fuel filters after about a month, bio really scoured the crud out of the tank. The car had 190k so it had a while to build up. I replaced all of the fuel lines though that was probably not necessary. The only problem I have had is that the bio dissolved the gasket seal around the fuel filler under the gas flap. Tioga Honigmann replaced that and checked the lines and everything looks great. She is a little less peppy on bio than dino but it sure smells better. Tioga does great work, his shop is: Automotive Solutions 2809 White Cross Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-933-3884 And no, I am not a paid endorser, just a very satisfied customer. Hope that helps! -Bill- On 8/17/06 6:17 PM, "Eric" wrote: > Hello, > > I am new to your group, I would like to get some information on running > my 1995 e 300 d Mercedes on biodiesel. I have joined the local club and > have asked them and no one knew about my specific car. I understand > that it would be better to run biodiesel than to convert my car and run > straight veg oil. I was wondering what if any fuel lines I should > replace and if I should install an additional fuel filter in my car. > Has anyone used biodiesel in one of these cars? I don't want to do > anything wrong and dammage my fuel system. > > Thank you, > > Eric > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From maxisaacs at earthlink.net Sat Aug 19 13:25:26 2006 From: maxisaacs at earthlink.net (Max) Date: Sat Aug 19 12:24:05 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 99 WVO Ford F-20 For sale Message-ID: <11954088.1156004727018.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Howdy everybody! I am selling my 99 F-250 Super duty that I have converted to run on waste vegetable oil. 7.3L engine, 101k miles. The truck is equipped with four wheel drive, automatic transmission, power windows and locks, supercab, regular trailer hitch plus a Draw-Tite Remov-A-Ball Gooseneck Trailer Hitch, new tires, new power steering pump, new steering gear, and new ball joints. But the most impressive feature on this truck is a 100 gallon waste vegetable oil fuel system. You can run this truck off of straight vegetable oil without having to go through the process of converting it to biodiesel. The fuel is free and since this system has an integrated transfer pump as well as the dual chambered tank, you can filter your fuel on the road. The truck gets about 18 mpg so with the 100 gallon tank you can drive about halfway across the country without having to fill up! The truck is in good mechanical condition but there are some scratches and dings in the body. The tailgate works but would need to be replaced to be cosmetically perfect. The interior is also in good condition. My asking price is $20000 obo. Give me a call at (336) 404-5269 if you are interested From chase at cs.duke.edu Sat Aug 19 10:32:18 2006 From: chase at cs.duke.edu (Jeff Chase) Date: Sat Aug 19 12:48:25 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: [BCBD-Members] Who Killed the Electric Car showing this Saturday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44E712E2.4080805@cs.duke.edu> The movie is also showing at Carolina Theater in Durham and in Chapel Hill and Raleigh.....but without the expo and panel discussion. Jeff Carolina Theatre - Durham 309 West Morgan Street, Durham, NC, 27701 (2:00), (4:15), 7:00, 9:15 Chelsea Theater Timberlyne Shopping Center, Chapel Hill, NC, 27514 (4:10), 9:10 Colony Theatres Colony Shopping Center, Raleigh, NC, 27608 (2:15), (4:15), 7:15, 9:15 Marc Dreyfors-President wrote: > Any one interested in carpooling tomorrow, let me know. If we get > enough folks we can rent the BioBus, which is available. Otherwise we > have a couple of Mecedes running B100, leaving from Woodcroft equal > distance from Durham and Chapel Hill. > Let me know, > Marc > 812-7805 > NCGreenCar.com > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Tobin Freid [mailto:tobin@tjcog.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:05 PM > *To:* tcc@tjcog.org > *Subject:* Who Killed the Electric Car showing this Saturday > > *You are invited to view ?Who Killed the Electric Car??* > > *A panel discussion will follow the movie* > > *Special Guest Chris Paine, Director of ?Who Killed the Electric > Car??* > > * * > > *August 19, 2006 * > > * * > > *6:00 ? Electric and Alternative Fuel Expo * > > The Electric and Alternative Fuel Expo provides the opportunity to > see electric and other alternative fuel vehicles, as well as talk > to experts in a variety of related issues. This is free and will > be held in the parking lot of the Galaxy Cinema.** > > * * > > *7:00 ? Who Killed the Electric Car ? Tickets can be purchased > from the Galaxy Cinema* > > *?*With gasoline prices approaching $4/gallon, fossil fuel > shortages, unrest in oil producing regions around the globe and > mainstream consumer adoption and adoption of the hybrid electric > car (more than 140,000 Priuses sold this year), this story > couldn't be more relevant or important. The foremost goal in > making this movie is to educate and enlighten audiences with the > story of this car, its place in history and in the larger story of > our car culture and how it enables our continuing addiction to > foreign oil. This is an important film with an important message > that not only calls to task the officials who squelched the Zero > Emission Vehicle mandate, but all of the other accomplices, > government, the car companies, Big Oil, even Eco-darling Hydrogen > as well as consumers, who turned their backs on the car and > embrace embracing instead the SUV. Our documentary investigates > the death and resurrection of the electric car, as well as the > role of renewable energy and sustainable living in our country's > future; issues which affect everyone from progressive liberals to > the neo-conservative right.? > > From: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/plotsummary > > * * > > *8:45 ? Panel discussion about electric and other alternative fuel > vehicles* > > After the movie, Chris Paine (the film?s director) will discuss > the movie. > > * * > > *For info on the Galaxy Cinema including directions visit > www.mygalaxycinema.com/index.asp* > > Tobin L. Freid > Project Coordinator for Energy and Environment > Triangle J Council of Governments > (919) 558-9400 > > -- Triangle J Council of Governments is a Best Workplace for > Commuters -- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Members mailing list >Members@bullcitybiodiesel.org >http://bullcitybiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/members_bullcitybiodiesel.org > > From aboggs100 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 19 16:59:39 2006 From: aboggs100 at hotmail.com (adrian boggs) Date: Sat Aug 19 15:58:21 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Removal from list Message-ID: TWIMC: Please remove my address from this list. Thank you very much. Adrian Boggs aboggs100@hotmail.com From michael.chrestensen at biogenidec.com Sat Aug 19 17:01:08 2006 From: michael.chrestensen at biogenidec.com (Michael Chrestensen) Date: Sat Aug 19 15:59:50 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Mike C is out, will return Monday 8/21 Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/18/2006 and will not return until 08/21/2006. For AE Issues see Tammy Burnett, Sean Stonham, or Anita Kretchman For PC questions contact Kyle Mikulis or Therese Danskin For mail issues contact Lucretia Chapman For Reconciliation Report questions contact Olisa Corcoran From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Aug 21 09:50:48 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:49:21 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Green Building Class At CCCC this Fall Message-ID: <4A57FF2C-89AA-4B51-9A2C-ED1269881802@blast.com> Hey Folks! Stephen Hren of cob building fame is teaching a green building class at Central Carolina Community College, this Fall 2006 Semester Check it out! Here is the outline of the class. Rachel 7 Class Days and 2 Workshop days Tuesday, September 12 7-9pm Introduction Seminar 1. Our Home?s Impact on Ourselves 2. Our Home?s Impact on Our Environment a. Sink limits (pollution, global warming, etc) b. Source limits (oil and fossil energy depletion, forest and metals depletion, etc) 3. What is Green Building? a. Health b. Sustainability/Energy Use c. Best Use of Available Resources Tuesday, Sept. 19, 7-9pm 1. Fundamentals of Structure and Loads a. Basic stresses (lateral, compressive, tensile, etc) 2. Natural Building Materials and Their Response to Loads a. Basic materials (wood, earth, bamboo, glass, etc) 3. Natural Materials, Building Codes, and Inspectors a. Current law b. How the law affects you and how it can be changed Tuesday, Sept. 26, 7-9pm 1. The Solar Window a. The sun?s journey b. Trees and landscape c. Our daily solar energy budget d. Storing surplus energy (thermal mass, biomass, batteries, etc) 2. What is Heat and How Can We Trap It a. Radiation b. Conduction c. Convection Sat-Sunday Sept. 30-Oct. 1 Students participate on either a Saturday or Sunday from about 10am to 4pm on a strawbale and cob greenhouse and cooler for an organic farm in Person County. Afterwards, students see completed passive solar cob home with active solar PV. Tuesday, Oct. 10th 7-9pm Seminar 1. Fundamentals of Building with Natural Materials a. Cob and Adobe b. Rammed Earth c. Underground d. Earthship e. Log, Pole, and Post and Beam f. Bamboo g. Cordwood h. Strawbale Tuesday, Oct. 17th 7-9pm Seminar 1. Protecting Buildings and Materials a. Natural Plasters b. Overhangs c. Natural Oils and Paints d. Foundation and Landscaping 2. Living Buildings a. Breathing/Ventilation b. Living Walls 3. Designing Appropriate Systems a. Rainwater collection b. Grey and Blackwater Treatment Sat-Sun Oct. 21-22 2nd Workshop Day 10am-4pm Continue and hopefully finish work on strawbale and cob greenhouse and cooler in Person County. Students participate on either Sat. or Sun. Tuesday, Oct. 31 7-9pm Seminar 1. Heating with the Sun a. Solar Pathfinder demonstration b. Passive Solar Heating and Design c. Greenhouse Additions d. Solar Water Heating Design, Costs, and Systems e. Solar Radiators Tuesday, Nov. 7th 7-9pm Seminar and Conclusion 1. Thermal Mass and Insulation a. Storm Windows b. Insulated Shutters c. Nighttime Cool Capture 2. Appliances and Wasted Energy 3. Photovoltaic and Renewable Energy Systems a. Off-grid basics b. Grid-tied basics c. Wind, Water, and Potential Advances 4. Conclusion a. Easiest Steps to Take/Where to Begin b. Transportation and Food in the Context of Green Living From jsymon at safenet-inc.com Mon Aug 21 10:10:00 2006 From: jsymon at safenet-inc.com (Jim Symon) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:08:37 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] cellulosic Message-ID: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC364A@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> I read this as saying the Xethanol plant WILL be doing cellulosic ethanol. If so it seems like pretty big news. Are there any other commercial cellulosic plants on line yet? Outside of cellulosic, I've been viewing ethanol as a biofuel imposter, an agribusiness scam because of questionable sustainability ratios and non-neutral CO2 emissions during production. Am I wrong? Symon Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:45:35 -0400 From: "John Bonitz" To: BIG More on the Xethanol plant in Spring Hope. Collaborating with NREL. Sounds like they're pushing the envelope: Ethanol from wood chips. What they say about the process sounds like they'll be treating the cellulose as a waste product. Could be well situated to integrate cellulosic-ethanol technologies, once they mature. The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. From aibodkin at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 12:05:39 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Mon Aug 21 11:04:09 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Closed system biodiesel process? Message-ID: Anybody aware if there is a "closed system" process to create biodiesel without evaporation loss? ___ By Alister Doyle, Environment Correspondent August 20 2006 at 05:53PM "..Stockholm - Surging demand for irrigation to produce food and biofuels is likely to aggravate scarcities of water but the world's supply is not running out, an international report said on Monday. "One in three people is enduring one form or another of water scarcity," the International Water Management Institute (IWMI) said in a report compiled by 700 experts and backed by the United Nations and farm research groups. The scarcity figures were higher than previous estimates. "Conquering hunger and coping with an estimated 3 billion extra people by 2050 will result in an 80 percent increase in water use for agriculture on rainfed and irrigated lands," it added. Demand for irrigation - which absorbs about 74 percent of all water used by people against 18 percent for hydropower and other industrial uses and just 8 percent for households - was likely to surge by 2050..." http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=143&art_id=qw1156087262432S516 _ From wrenchwench at blast.com Mon Aug 21 16:43:50 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon Aug 21 15:42:25 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Field Technician Job Posting Message-ID: <7A62D493-B862-4DC8-8F2F-9D3268156E18@blast.com> Hey folks! Southern Energy management is hiring. Email them at the address below: Job description: Field-testing of both new and existing homes for energy efficiency parameters. Whole house air leakage measurements, Duct leakage air measurements and duct sealing. Visual inspections of subcontractors work in new construction. Filling out field reports accurately and writing reports for customers. Also includes field active solar system installation work and PV installation work. This includes panel installation on roofs and installation of solar water heater storage tanks. Plumbing and electrical experience a plus. Some heavy lifting required. All of the above duties require close interaction with homeowners and builders so strong interpersonal skills are imperative. Full time position with room for growth. Salary based on experience. For more details please email us a resume to the address below. Thanks, Maria Kingery info@southern-energy.com From rickyb at rickyb.net Tue Aug 22 08:45:49 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Tue Aug 22 23:32:43 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] None Message-ID: <20060822124549.F065B4F4FD@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> This week on WFDD 88.5 Wake Forest public radio there is a piece on alternative fuels in North Carolina. The gentleman from WFDD, Thibault Worth made a trip to our "Laboratory" on a workday one Saturday to include the Winston group. So far it has been very good and very good info covering waster vegetable oil and diesel car conversion to retail sales. Its only about 10 minutes a segment but every bit of exposure is another possibility of a new resource. Give a listen and thanks Thibault. From markj.ambrose at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 11:58:29 2006 From: markj.ambrose at gmail.com (Mark J. Ambrose) Date: Tue Aug 22 23:32:47 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] cellulosic In-Reply-To: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC364A@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> References: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC364A@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> Message-ID: <44EB1B95.7000802@gmail.com> I would say that ethanol does not live up to its claims but that it is not an "imposter." No, ethanol is not 100% sustainable, but no energy source really is. I view ethanol as a step in the right direction, but not THE ANSWER. If ethanol gives you, say, 130% of the energy that you put in making it, that is not great. You still use a lot of fossil fuel, but you use less than you would have otherwise. It is equivalent to improving your fuel efficiency 30%. Not bad My big frustration is that our energy policy (to the extent that we have one) seems to be dictated by economic interests (and some pie in the sky) rather on the technologies that have the most promise for immediate benefit. If one were to prioritize motor vehicle technologies based on potential for rapid improvement of the current situation, the list would be something like: impoved fuel efficiency standards biodiesel electric (together with more renewable electric generation, including biomass to energy) . ethanol . . . . . hydrogen rather than having ethanol and hydrogen at the top of the agenda. -- Mark Jim Symon wrote: >I read this as saying the Xethanol plant WILL be doing cellulosic ethanol. >If so it seems like pretty big news. Are there any other commercial >cellulosic plants on line yet? > >Outside of cellulosic, I've been viewing ethanol as a biofuel imposter, an >agribusiness scam because of questionable sustainability ratios and >non-neutral CO2 emissions during production. Am I wrong? > >Symon > > >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:45:35 -0400 >From: "John Bonitz" >To: BIG > >More on the Xethanol plant in Spring Hope. Collaborating with NREL. >Sounds like they're pushing the envelope: Ethanol from wood chips. >What they say about the process sounds like they'll be treating the >cellulose as a waste product. Could be well situated to integrate >cellulosic-ethanol technologies, once they mature. > > > > >The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Aug 23 00:40:54 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Aug 22 23:39:33 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel Mechanic testimonies, feel free to add someone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Michael, Here are some recommendations that I have collected in the last year. Some have experience with biodiesel. Some are good with diesels. Hope this helps. Everyone, Feel free to post others recommendations! Thanks, Rachel 1. Dan (919)544-6174 or e-mail dagsautorepair@aol.com - taken the biofuels class 2. AutoMotion in Carrboro (967-9821) for scheduled maintenance and 1 diagnostics/repair on my '02 Golf TDI. I have found the owner, Ronnie, very reasonable and fair. Think there are several mechanics there who work on diesels; usually it has been Hilton who's worked on mine. Initially he was a bit skeptical of biodiesel esp running anything over B50, though he was openminded, and it's gone fine. They are at 103 Brewer Lane, just off Franklin Street, near the car wash. " Wendy 2. We can highly recommend Tioga at Automotive Solutions, out 54 by White Cross: 2809 White cross road, chapel hill nc 27516. don't have his # handy. honest, knowledgeable, low key. Great detective work straightening out a 1998 Passat (gas). 3. I really like the folks at Passport Motors, 600 Franklin St, Chapel Hill _________ 4. Have used Robert, at Autobahn Automotive, just off atlantic blvd in Raleigh for YEARS. _______ 5. the guy in Cary is Cary Motor Co. 531 E. Chatham St. Cary, NC 27511 Telephone: (919) 465-1776 Fax: (919) 465-0566 On Aug 21, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Michael Chrestensen wrote: > > Hi there, > > I use 100% biodiesel in a '98 Jetta sedan. I have used about 6 > tanks and changed the fuel filter twice. My car is sputtering > almost like it had water in the engine (you know that bucking > sensation - but there is no water). My mechanic noticed the fuel > lines were leaking and replaced those. I didn't think fuel lines > in newer (newer than the'80s mercerdes) cars would be impacted by > biodiesel. Is that so? Alternatively maybe the fuel filter was > clogged again and out too much pressure on the fuel lines? Anyway, > question is should I purchase special fuel lines to avoid future > issues? Also does anyone know a good diesel mechanic in Durham > that has some biodiesel awareness. I like mine a lot (Absolute > Automotive), but would love someone who has some BD awareness. > > Thanks, Mike Chrestensen > > > biofuels_interest_group-request@lists.emji.net > Sent by: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net > 08-Aug-2006 10:59 PM > Please respond to > biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > > Message Size: 20.0 KB > > To > biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > cc > Subject > Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 > > > > > > Send Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list submissions to > biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/ > biofuels_interest_group > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > biofuels_interest_group-request@lists.emji.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > biofuels_interest_group-owner@lists.emji.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Biofuels_Interest_Group digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. > New York to House New Alternative Fuel Research Laboratory > (Rachel Burton) > 2. Beetle TDI Info and Help (Chris . Connor) > 3. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help (elise margoles) > 4. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help > 5. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help (Jurgen Henn) > 6. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help > 7. 4wd Diesels, VW's (Randall Lanou) > 8. Starting a co-op > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:45:06 -0400 > From: Rachel Burton > To: BIG > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] > New York to House New Alternative Fuel Research Laboratory > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 1 > > > New York governor George Pataki and New York State Senate > majority > leader Joseph Bruno recently announced plans for the > construction of > a "state-of-the-art" alternative fuel research laboratory at the > Saratoga Technology + Energy Park (STEP) as well as a new > $10-million state program to convert vehicles in the state > fleet to > plug-in hybrids. > > "These new programs are important tools in our effort to develop > clean and renewable fuels, promote greater energy efficiency and > create jobs in the emerging energy sector," said Pataki adding > that > the STEP facility "will help spur the innovation necessary to > transition away from a petroleum-based transportation sector." > > According to Pataki and Bruno, the new laboratory will develop > scientific data to formulate new programs to conserve energy, > diversify energy supplies, decrease dependence on imported > fuels and > protect the environment. The facility will conduct testing for > advanced and emerging technologies such as fuel cell propulsion > systems, alternative fuels and greenhouse gas reduction > technologies. It will have a special focus on test systems to > quantify all emissions from diesel buses and trucks, which will > help > to develop advanced control and retrofit technologies for these > vehicles. > > The laboratory is also expected to promote public-private > partnership projects and educational programs, including research > grants, technology development and technician training > applicable to > emerging technologies such as alternative fuel concepts. > > Contact: Office of Governor Pataki, website > http://www.ny.gov/governor; New York State Senate, website > http://www.senate.state.ny.us. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:00:53 -0400 > From: "Chris . Connor" > To: "BIG" > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- > ml.luck.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Precedence: list > Message: 2 > > I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think > that a > Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those > needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I can > get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast > experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, > non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent would > be greatly appreciated. > =20 > Thanks in advance, > Chris Connor > cconnor@luckstone.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:04:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > From: elise margoles > To: "Chris . Connor" , > BIG > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > Message-ID: <25476600.1155056690535.JavaMail.root@elwamui- > cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Reply-To: elise margoles > Message: 3 > > Please post any responses to the whole group as I am interested in > learning as well. Thanks! Elise Margoles > > -----Original Message----- > >From: "Chris . Connor" > >Sent: Aug 8, 2006 12:00 PM > >To: BIG > >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > > > >I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think > that a > >Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those > >needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I > can > >get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast > >experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, > >non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent > would > >be greatly appreciated. > > > >Thanks in advance, > >Chris Connor > >cconnor@luckstone.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:29:39 -0500 > From: rickyb@rickyb.net > To: "Chris . Connor" , > BIG > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > Message-ID: <20060808172939.A27159ECC1@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Precedence: list > Message: 4 > > We have both a Golf(appropriately named since Im an avid golfer) > and a Beet= > le(my wifes). Both are diesel. Mine is a manual 5 speed. Hers an > automat= > ic. They have been extremely reliable, driveable and very very > economical.= > I would not hesitate to drive either one on a long trip. They are > much m= > ore comfortable then you would imagine. We did have a Jetta before > these. = > It was an automatic diesel. Same with it. The bug has more room > inside th= > an one would expect. She absolutely loves it. The mileage around > town is = > about 40 and close to 50 on the road. Our co-op group is making > bio and I = > am using it in the Golf, soon to start in the Beetle. The turbo- > diesel is = > excellent for both speed and for economy. In short, we love them > both. If = > you have any specifics just ask me.=20 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris . Connor" > > To: BIG > > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:00:53 -0400 > >=20 > >=20 > > I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think > that a > > Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those > > needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that > I can > > get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast > > experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, > > non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent > would > > be greatly appreciated. > >=20 > > Thanks in advance, > > Chris Connor > > cconnor@luckstone.com > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:36:52 -0400 > From: Jurgen Henn > To: "Chris . Connor" > Cc: BIG > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > Message-ID: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> > In-Reply-To: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- > ml.luck.net> > References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- > ml.luck.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 5 > > Chris > go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main > question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or > 2004 and > later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, which > works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so there is less > long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of PD-TDIs > and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club forums on > this issue: > http://forums.tdiclub.com/ > (Great resource!!) > > Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an > independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... > > Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an automatic and > did not like it. > > Grease be with you! > > Jurgen > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jurgen Henn > 2002 Jetta TDI > 40/50 MPG on biodiesel > http://words.yovo.info/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Chris . Connor wrote: > > I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think > that a > > Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those > > needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that > I can > > get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast > > experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, > > non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent > would > > be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Chris Connor > > cconnor@luckstone.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:28:21 -0400 > From: depowell@email.unc.edu > To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help > Message-ID: <20060808172821.thnugx2684wokw4w@webmail7.isis.unc.edu> > In-Reply-To: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> > References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- > ml.luck.net> > <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=US-ASCII; > format="flowed" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 6 > > I am in a similar situation as Chris, and am shopping for a used VW > with a TDI engine, to make the switch to biofuel. > QUESTION: Does anyone know of a VW model with a TDI (or PD-TDI) engine > that also has all-wheel drive (AWD)? From some limited searching > online, it seems that the only AWD VW's are the billion dollar > Phaeton, > the too-big Toureg, or the still pricey Passat. > Basically, I am looking for a car with a diesel or TDI engine that is > also all wheel drive. Doesn't even have to be a VW, if there is > something else out there. > Any suggestions??? > > Thanks > Dana > > Quoting Jurgen Henn : > > > Chris > > go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main > > question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or 2004 > > and later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, > > which works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so there is > > less long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of > > PD-TDIs and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club > > forums on this issue: > > http://forums.tdiclub.com/ > > (Great resource!!) > > > > Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an > > independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... > > > > Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an automatic > and > > did not like it. > > > > Grease be with you! > > > > Jurgen > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Jurgen Henn > > 2002 Jetta TDI > > 40/50 MPG on biodiesel > > http://words.yovo.info/ > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Chris . Connor wrote: > >> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I > think that a > >> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those > >> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that > I can > >> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast > >> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, > >> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent > would > >> be greatly appreciated. > >> Thanks in advance, > >> Chris Connor > >> cconnor@luckstone.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:45:11 -0400 > From: Randall Lanou > To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 4wd Diesels, VW's > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Message: 7 > > Chris > > You can buy any full size truck in diesel and 4wd. My company has a > Dodge 2500 and a Ford F250 (and a Sprinter and a VW) that we run on > biodiesel. The fuel economy is only about 20 mpg with the big > pick-ups. The Jeep Liberty 4wd is also available in diesel (automatic > only). > > BTW, I recently bought a new Jetta for about 22K. That was only few > grand more than I have seen 2 and 3 year old used TDI's advertised > for. > I love the car and thought it was a better deal. It runs > perfectly on > B99. > > Good luck. > > Randall Lanou > BuildSense, Inc. > > office 919.667.0404 > mobile 919.247.5430 > fax 919.667.9984 > > "It's like boxing a glacier. Enjoy that metaphor, because your > grandchildren will have no idea what a glacier is." -- Steven Colbert, > Associated Press Dinner Speech. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:06:09 -0500 > From: rickyb@rickyb.net > To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > Cc: Tom Waters > Cc: Tim Drye > Cc: Rick Blevins > Cc: Van Coe > Cc: Keith Hanes > Cc: Martha Ware > Cc: tcbrown@wfubmc.edu > Cc: Thibault Worth > Cc: Jay Jenkins > Cc: jamestm@cityofws.org > Cc: Jones Abernethy > Cc: Dan Moore > Cc: Lan Holtsclaw > Cc: Marcus Wright > Cc: rhoneysl@surry.net > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Starting a co-op > Message-ID: <20060808180609.7B4A61099C0@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Precedence: list > Message: 8 > > We finally got an answer from the Secretary of State on how to form > a co-op= > . I am enclosing their reply in the body of this email for anyone > interest= > ed. > > > > Mail Envelope Properties (44D1EEF3.AA5 : 21 : 15013) > > Subject: Re: starting a coop > Creation Date 8/3/2006 8:40:37 AM > From: "daniel crabbe" > > > Mr. Blevins: > > Cooperative Organizations are formed under Chapter 54 of the NC > General Sta= > tutes. Our office does not provide a form for a cooperative > organization. = > Please review Article 16 of Chapter 54 and Articles 18 and 19 of > Chapter 5= > 4. These sections describe how to form a cooperative organization > in North= > Carolina and the various requirements for the Articles of > Incorporation. = > The NC General Statutes may be viewed online at www.ncleg.net. > Please feel= > free to contact me with any further questions you may have > regarding this = > matter.=20=20 > > Sincerely, > Daniel Crabbe > Lead Examiner, Corporations Division > NC Dept. of the Secretary of State > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > End of Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 > ****************************************************** > From rickyb at rickyb.net Wed Aug 23 09:27:23 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:25:46 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Winstons Monthly meeting Message-ID: <20060823132723.8599AEE53B@ws6-1.us4.outblaze.com> Just a reminded we have our monthly bio co-op meeting this Thursday 7pm South Fork Recreation center. Lots of news and new stuff to discuss. From skepticbill at mac.com Wed Aug 23 10:46:17 2006 From: skepticbill at mac.com (Bill O'Luanaigh (.mac)) Date: Wed Aug 23 09:45:28 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel Mechanic testimonies, feel free to add someone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey all, I want to second the Tioga Honigmann recommendation. Very sharp, very honest, and will talk you out of needless repairs. Great "problem solver too. His contact info is: Automotive Solutions 2809 White Cross Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-933-3884 -Bill- On 8/22/06 11:40 PM, "Rachel Burton" wrote: > Dear Michael, > > Here are some recommendations that I have collected in the last year. > Some have experience with biodiesel. Some are good with diesels. > Hope this helps. > > Everyone, > Feel free to post others recommendations! > > > Thanks, > Rachel > > > 1. Dan (919)544-6174 or e-mail dagsautorepair@aol.com - taken the > biofuels class > > 2. AutoMotion in Carrboro (967-9821) for scheduled maintenance and 1 > diagnostics/repair on my '02 Golf TDI. I have found the owner, > Ronnie, very reasonable and fair. Think there are several mechanics > there who work on diesels; usually it has been Hilton who's worked on > mine. Initially he was a bit skeptical of biodiesel esp running > anything over B50, though he was openminded, and it's gone fine. > They are at 103 Brewer Lane, just off Franklin Street, near the car > wash. " > Wendy > > 2. We can highly recommend Tioga at Automotive Solutions, out 54 by > White Cross: 2809 White cross road, chapel hill nc 27516. don't have > his # handy. honest, knowledgeable, low key. Great detective work > straightening out a 1998 Passat (gas). > > 3. I really like the folks at Passport Motors, 600 Franklin St, > Chapel Hill > _________ > 4. Have used Robert, at Autobahn Automotive, just off atlantic blvd > in Raleigh for YEARS. > _______ > > 5. the guy in Cary is > Cary Motor Co. > 531 E. Chatham St. > Cary, NC 27511 > Telephone: (919) 465-1776 > Fax: (919) 465-0566 > > > > > On Aug 21, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Michael Chrestensen wrote: > >> >> Hi there, >> >> I use 100% biodiesel in a '98 Jetta sedan. I have used about 6 >> tanks and changed the fuel filter twice. My car is sputtering >> almost like it had water in the engine (you know that bucking >> sensation - but there is no water). My mechanic noticed the fuel >> lines were leaking and replaced those. I didn't think fuel lines >> in newer (newer than the'80s mercerdes) cars would be impacted by >> biodiesel. Is that so? Alternatively maybe the fuel filter was >> clogged again and out too much pressure on the fuel lines? Anyway, >> question is should I purchase special fuel lines to avoid future >> issues? Also does anyone know a good diesel mechanic in Durham >> that has some biodiesel awareness. I like mine a lot (Absolute >> Automotive), but would love someone who has some BD awareness. >> >> Thanks, Mike Chrestensen >> >> >> biofuels_interest_group-request@lists.emji.net >> Sent by: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net >> 08-Aug-2006 10:59 PM >> Please respond to >> biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> >> Message Size: 20.0 KB >> >> To >> biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> cc >> Subject >> Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 >> >> >> >> >> >> Send Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list submissions to >> biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/ >> biofuels_interest_group >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> biofuels_interest_group-request@lists.emji.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> biofuels_interest_group-owner@lists.emji.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Biofuels_Interest_Group digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. >> New York to House New Alternative Fuel Research Laboratory >> (Rachel Burton) >> 2. Beetle TDI Info and Help (Chris . Connor) >> 3. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help (elise margoles) >> 4. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help >> 5. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help (Jurgen Henn) >> 6. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help >> 7. 4wd Diesels, VW's (Randall Lanou) >> 8. Starting a co-op >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:45:06 -0400 >> From: Rachel Burton >> To: BIG >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] >> New York to House New Alternative Fuel Research Laboratory >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed >> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 1 >> >> >> New York governor George Pataki and New York State Senate >> majority >> leader Joseph Bruno recently announced plans for the >> construction of >> a "state-of-the-art" alternative fuel research laboratory at the >> Saratoga Technology + Energy Park (STEP) as well as a new >> $10-million state program to convert vehicles in the state >> fleet to >> plug-in hybrids. >> >> "These new programs are important tools in our effort to develop >> clean and renewable fuels, promote greater energy efficiency and >> create jobs in the emerging energy sector," said Pataki adding >> that >> the STEP facility "will help spur the innovation necessary to >> transition away from a petroleum-based transportation sector." >> >> According to Pataki and Bruno, the new laboratory will develop >> scientific data to formulate new programs to conserve energy, >> diversify energy supplies, decrease dependence on imported >> fuels and >> protect the environment. The facility will conduct testing for >> advanced and emerging technologies such as fuel cell propulsion >> systems, alternative fuels and greenhouse gas reduction >> technologies. It will have a special focus on test systems to >> quantify all emissions from diesel buses and trucks, which will >> help >> to develop advanced control and retrofit technologies for these >> vehicles. >> >> The laboratory is also expected to promote public-private >> partnership projects and educational programs, including research >> grants, technology development and technician training >> applicable to >> emerging technologies such as alternative fuel concepts. >> >> Contact: Office of Governor Pataki, website >> http://www.ny.gov/governor; New York State Senate, website >> http://www.senate.state.ny.us. >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:00:53 -0400 >> From: "Chris . Connor" >> To: "BIG" >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="us-ascii" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Precedence: list >> Message: 2 >> >> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think >> that a >> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I can >> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent would >> be greatly appreciated. >> =20 >> Thanks in advance, >> Chris Connor >> cconnor@luckstone.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:04:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >> From: elise margoles >> To: "Chris . Connor" , >> BIG >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <25476600.1155056690535.JavaMail.root@elwamui- >> cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Reply-To: elise margoles >> Message: 3 >> >> Please post any responses to the whole group as I am interested in >> learning as well. Thanks! Elise Margoles >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Chris . Connor" >>> Sent: Aug 8, 2006 12:00 PM >>> To: BIG >>> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >>> >>> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think >> that a >>> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >>> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I >> can >>> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >>> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >>> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >>> be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Chris Connor >>> cconnor@luckstone.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:29:39 -0500 >> From: rickyb@rickyb.net >> To: "Chris . Connor" , >> BIG >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <20060808172939.A27159ECC1@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Precedence: list >> Message: 4 >> >> We have both a Golf(appropriately named since Im an avid golfer) >> and a Beet= >> le(my wifes). Both are diesel. Mine is a manual 5 speed. Hers an >> automat= >> ic. They have been extremely reliable, driveable and very very >> economical.= >> I would not hesitate to drive either one on a long trip. They are >> much m= >> ore comfortable then you would imagine. We did have a Jetta before >> these. = >> It was an automatic diesel. Same with it. The bug has more room >> inside th= >> an one would expect. She absolutely loves it. The mileage around >> town is = >> about 40 and close to 50 on the road. Our co-op group is making >> bio and I = >> am using it in the Golf, soon to start in the Beetle. The turbo- >> diesel is = >> excellent for both speed and for economy. In short, we love them >> both. If = >> you have any specifics just ask me.=20 >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris . Connor" >>> To: BIG >>> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >>> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:00:53 -0400 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think >> that a >>> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >>> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that >> I can >>> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >>> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >>> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >>> be greatly appreciated. >>> =20 >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Chris Connor >>> cconnor@luckstone.com >>> =20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:36:52 -0400 >> From: Jurgen Henn >> To: "Chris . Connor" >> Cc: BIG >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> >> In-Reply-To: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 5 >> >> Chris >> go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main >> question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or >> 2004 and >> later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, which >> works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so there is less >> long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of PD-TDIs >> and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club forums on >> this issue: >> http://forums.tdiclub.com/ >> (Great resource!!) >> >> Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an >> independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... >> >> Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an automatic and >> did not like it. >> >> Grease be with you! >> >> Jurgen >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jurgen Henn >> 2002 Jetta TDI >> 40/50 MPG on biodiesel >> http://words.yovo.info/ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Chris . Connor wrote: >>> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think >> that a >>> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >>> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that >> I can >>> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >>> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >>> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >>> be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Chris Connor >>> cconnor@luckstone.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:28:21 -0400 >> From: depowell@email.unc.edu >> To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <20060808172821.thnugx2684wokw4w@webmail7.isis.unc.edu> >> In-Reply-To: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> >> References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset=US-ASCII; >> format="flowed" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 6 >> >> I am in a similar situation as Chris, and am shopping for a used VW >> with a TDI engine, to make the switch to biofuel. >> QUESTION: Does anyone know of a VW model with a TDI (or PD-TDI) engine >> that also has all-wheel drive (AWD)? From some limited searching >> online, it seems that the only AWD VW's are the billion dollar >> Phaeton, >> the too-big Toureg, or the still pricey Passat. >> Basically, I am looking for a car with a diesel or TDI engine that is >> also all wheel drive. Doesn't even have to be a VW, if there is >> something else out there. >> Any suggestions??? >> >> Thanks >> Dana >> >> Quoting Jurgen Henn : >> >>> Chris >>> go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main >>> question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or 2004 >>> and later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, >>> which works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so there is >>> less long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of >>> PD-TDIs and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club >>> forums on this issue: >>> http://forums.tdiclub.com/ >>> (Great resource!!) >>> >>> Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an >>> independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... >>> >>> Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an automatic >> and >>> did not like it. >>> >>> Grease be with you! >>> >>> Jurgen >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Jurgen Henn >>> 2002 Jetta TDI >>> 40/50 MPG on biodiesel >>> http://words.yovo.info/ >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> Chris . Connor wrote: >>>> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I >> think that a >>>> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >>>> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that >> I can >>>> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >>>> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >>>> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >>>> be greatly appreciated. >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> Chris Connor >>>> cconnor@luckstone.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>>> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:45:11 -0400 >> From: Randall Lanou >> To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 4wd Diesels, VW's >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 7 >> >> Chris >> >> You can buy any full size truck in diesel and 4wd. My company has a >> Dodge 2500 and a Ford F250 (and a Sprinter and a VW) that we run on >> biodiesel. The fuel economy is only about 20 mpg with the big >> pick-ups. The Jeep Liberty 4wd is also available in diesel (automatic >> only). >> >> BTW, I recently bought a new Jetta for about 22K. That was only few >> grand more than I have seen 2 and 3 year old used TDI's advertised >> for. >> I love the car and thought it was a better deal. It runs >> perfectly on >> B99. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Randall Lanou >> BuildSense, Inc. >> >> office 919.667.0404 >> mobile 919.247.5430 >> fax 919.667.9984 >> >> "It's like boxing a glacier. Enjoy that metaphor, because your >> grandchildren will have no idea what a glacier is." -- Steven Colbert, >> Associated Press Dinner Speech. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:06:09 -0500 >> From: rickyb@rickyb.net >> To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> Cc: Tom Waters >> Cc: Tim Drye >> Cc: Rick Blevins >> Cc: Van Coe >> Cc: Keith Hanes >> Cc: Martha Ware >> Cc: tcbrown@wfubmc.edu >> Cc: Thibault Worth >> Cc: Jay Jenkins >> Cc: jamestm@cityofws.org >> Cc: Jones Abernethy >> Cc: Dan Moore >> Cc: Lan Holtsclaw >> Cc: Marcus Wright >> Cc: rhoneysl@surry.net >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Starting a co-op >> Message-ID: <20060808180609.7B4A61099C0@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Precedence: list >> Message: 8 >> >> We finally got an answer from the Secretary of State on how to form >> a co-op= >> . I am enclosing their reply in the body of this email for anyone >> interest= >> ed. >> >> >> >> Mail Envelope Properties (44D1EEF3.AA5 : 21 : 15013) >> >> Subject: Re: starting a coop >> Creation Date 8/3/2006 8:40:37 AM >> From: "daniel crabbe" >> >> >> Mr. Blevins: >> >> Cooperative Organizations are formed under Chapter 54 of the NC >> General Sta= >> tutes. Our office does not provide a form for a cooperative >> organization. = >> Please review Article 16 of Chapter 54 and Articles 18 and 19 of >> Chapter 5= >> 4. These sections describe how to form a cooperative organization >> in North= >> Carolina and the various requirements for the Articles of >> Incorporation. = >> The NC General Statutes may be viewed online at www.ncleg.net. >> Please feel= >> free to contact me with any further questions you may have >> regarding this = >> matter.=20=20 >> >> Sincerely, >> Daniel Crabbe >> Lead Examiner, Corporations Division >> NC Dept. of the Secretary of State >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> End of Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 >> ****************************************************** >> > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From jsymon at safenet-inc.com Wed Aug 23 14:46:00 2006 From: jsymon at safenet-inc.com (Jim Symon) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:44:22 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] put this in your Jetta Message-ID: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC3654@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> http://designnews.com/article/CA6358116.html The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. From mattr at biofuels.coop Wed Aug 23 15:55:21 2006 From: mattr at biofuels.coop (Matthew Rudolf) Date: Wed Aug 23 14:53:04 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel Mechanic testimonies, feel free to add someone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B1A054B-038F-490F-875F-B38FC06AD109@biofuels.coop> Michael, In general we have seen TDI fuel lines are compatible with biodiesel, but not 100% of the time and in all cases. If you want to be 100% sure for the future you can order Viton fuel lines from Greaseworks in Oregon. http://www.greaseworks.org/ Piedmont Biofuels will carry B100 compatible fuel lines in the future. ~Matt On Aug 22, 2006, at 11:40 PM, Rachel Burton wrote: > Dear Michael, > > Here are some recommendations that I have collected in the last year. > Some have experience with biodiesel. Some are good with diesels. > Hope this helps. > > Everyone, > Feel free to post others recommendations! > > > Thanks, > Rachel > > > 1. Dan (919)544-6174 or e-mail dagsautorepair@aol.com - taken the > biofuels class > > 2. AutoMotion in Carrboro (967-9821) for scheduled maintenance and > 1 diagnostics/repair on my '02 Golf TDI. I have found the owner, > Ronnie, very reasonable and fair. Think there are several > mechanics there who work on diesels; usually it has been Hilton > who's worked on mine. Initially he was a bit skeptical of > biodiesel esp running anything over B50, though he was openminded, > and it's gone fine. They are at 103 Brewer Lane, just off Franklin > Street, near the car wash. " > Wendy > > 2. We can highly recommend Tioga at Automotive Solutions, out 54 > by White Cross: 2809 White cross road, chapel hill nc 27516. don't > have his # handy. honest, knowledgeable, low key. Great detective > work straightening out a 1998 Passat (gas). > > 3. I really like the folks at Passport Motors, 600 Franklin St, > Chapel Hill > _________ > 4. Have used Robert, at Autobahn Automotive, just off atlantic blvd > in Raleigh for YEARS. > _______ > > 5. the guy in Cary is > Cary Motor Co. > 531 E. Chatham St. > Cary, NC 27511 > Telephone: (919) 465-1776 > Fax: (919) 465-0566 > > > > > On Aug 21, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Michael Chrestensen wrote: > >> >> Hi there, >> >> I use 100% biodiesel in a '98 Jetta sedan. I have used about 6 >> tanks and changed the fuel filter twice. My car is sputtering >> almost like it had water in the engine (you know that bucking >> sensation - but there is no water). My mechanic noticed the fuel >> lines were leaking and replaced those. I didn't think fuel lines >> in newer (newer than the'80s mercerdes) cars would be impacted by >> biodiesel. Is that so? Alternatively maybe the fuel filter was >> clogged again and out too much pressure on the fuel lines? >> Anyway, question is should I purchase special fuel lines to avoid >> future issues? Also does anyone know a good diesel mechanic in >> Durham that has some biodiesel awareness. I like mine a lot >> (Absolute Automotive), but would love someone who has some BD >> awareness. >> >> Thanks, Mike Chrestensen >> >> >> biofuels_interest_group-request@lists.emji.net >> Sent by: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net >> 08-Aug-2006 10:59 PM >> Please respond to >> biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> >> Message Size: 20.0 KB >> >> To >> biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> cc >> Subject >> Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 >> >> >> >> >> >> Send Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list submissions to >> biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/ >> biofuels_interest_group >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> biofuels_interest_group-request@lists.emji.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> biofuels_interest_group-owner@lists.emji.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Biofuels_Interest_Group digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. >> New York to House New Alternative Fuel Research Laboratory >> (Rachel Burton) >> 2. Beetle TDI Info and Help (Chris . Connor) >> 3. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help (elise margoles) >> 4. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help >> 5. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help (Jurgen Henn) >> 6. Re: Beetle TDI Info and Help >> 7. 4wd Diesels, VW's (Randall Lanou) >> 8. Starting a co-op >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:45:06 -0400 >> From: Rachel Burton >> To: BIG >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] >> New York to House New Alternative Fuel Research Laboratory >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed >> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 1 >> >> >> New York governor George Pataki and New York State Senate >> majority >> leader Joseph Bruno recently announced plans for the >> construction of >> a "state-of-the-art" alternative fuel research laboratory at the >> Saratoga Technology + Energy Park (STEP) as well as a new >> $10-million state program to convert vehicles in the state >> fleet to >> plug-in hybrids. >> >> "These new programs are important tools in our effort to develop >> clean and renewable fuels, promote greater energy efficiency and >> create jobs in the emerging energy sector," said Pataki adding >> that >> the STEP facility "will help spur the innovation necessary to >> transition away from a petroleum-based transportation sector." >> >> According to Pataki and Bruno, the new laboratory will develop >> scientific data to formulate new programs to conserve energy, >> diversify energy supplies, decrease dependence on imported >> fuels and >> protect the environment. The facility will conduct testing for >> advanced and emerging technologies such as fuel cell propulsion >> systems, alternative fuels and greenhouse gas reduction >> technologies. It will have a special focus on test systems to >> quantify all emissions from diesel buses and trucks, which will >> help >> to develop advanced control and retrofit technologies for these >> vehicles. >> >> The laboratory is also expected to promote public-private >> partnership projects and educational programs, including >> research >> grants, technology development and technician training >> applicable to >> emerging technologies such as alternative fuel concepts. >> >> Contact: Office of Governor Pataki, website >> http://www.ny.gov/governor; New York State Senate, website >> http://www.senate.state.ny.us. >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:00:53 -0400 >> From: "Chris . Connor" >> To: "BIG" >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="us-ascii" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Precedence: list >> Message: 2 >> >> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think >> that a >> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that I >> can >> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >> be greatly appreciated. >> =20 >> Thanks in advance, >> Chris Connor >> cconnor@luckstone.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:04:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >> From: elise margoles >> To: "Chris . Connor" , >> BIG >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <25476600.1155056690535.JavaMail.root@elwamui- >> cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Reply-To: elise margoles >> Message: 3 >> >> Please post any responses to the whole group as I am interested in >> learning as well. Thanks! Elise Margoles >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: "Chris . Connor" >> >Sent: Aug 8, 2006 12:00 PM >> >To: BIG >> >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> > >> >I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I think >> that a >> >Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >> >needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that >> I can >> >get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >> >experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >> >non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >> >be greatly appreciated. >> > >> >Thanks in advance, >> >Chris Connor >> >cconnor@luckstone.com >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:29:39 -0500 >> From: rickyb@rickyb.net >> To: "Chris . Connor" , >> BIG >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <20060808172939.A27159ECC1@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Precedence: list >> Message: 4 >> >> We have both a Golf(appropriately named since Im an avid golfer) >> and a Beet= >> le(my wifes). Both are diesel. Mine is a manual 5 speed. Hers >> an automat= >> ic. They have been extremely reliable, driveable and very very >> economical.= >> I would not hesitate to drive either one on a long trip. They >> are much m= >> ore comfortable then you would imagine. We did have a Jetta >> before these. = >> It was an automatic diesel. Same with it. The bug has more room >> inside th= >> an one would expect. She absolutely loves it. The mileage around >> town is = >> about 40 and close to 50 on the road. Our co-op group is making >> bio and I = >> am using it in the Golf, soon to start in the Beetle. The turbo- >> diesel is = >> excellent for both speed and for economy. In short, we love them >> both. If = >> you have any specifics just ask me.=20 >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Chris . Connor" >> > To: BIG >> > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> > Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:00:53 -0400 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I >> think that a >> > Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >> > needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that >> I can >> > get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >> > experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >> > non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >> > be greatly appreciated. >> >=20 >> > Thanks in advance, >> > Chris Connor >> > cconnor@luckstone.com >> >=20 >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:36:52 -0400 >> From: Jurgen Henn >> To: "Chris . Connor" >> Cc: BIG >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> >> In-Reply-To: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 5 >> >> Chris >> go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main >> question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or >> 2004 and >> later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, which >> works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so there is less >> long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of PD- >> TDIs >> and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club forums on >> this issue: >> http://forums.tdiclub.com/ >> (Great resource!!) >> >> Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an >> independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... >> >> Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an automatic and >> did not like it. >> >> Grease be with you! >> >> Jurgen >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jurgen Henn >> 2002 Jetta TDI >> 40/50 MPG on biodiesel >> http://words.yovo.info/ >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Chris . Connor wrote: >> > I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I >> think that a >> > Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. Those >> > needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids that >> I can >> > get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with vast >> > experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >> > non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or indifferent >> would >> > be greatly appreciated. >> > >> > Thanks in advance, >> > Chris Connor >> > cconnor@luckstone.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:28:21 -0400 >> From: depowell@email.unc.edu >> To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Beetle TDI Info and Help >> Message-ID: <20060808172821.thnugx2684wokw4w@webmail7.isis.unc.edu> >> In-Reply-To: <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> >> References: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F845F9@5825- >> ml.luck.net> >> <44D8CBB4.3080109@yovo.info> >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset=US-ASCII; >> format="flowed" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 6 >> >> I am in a similar situation as Chris, and am shopping for a used VW >> with a TDI engine, to make the switch to biofuel. >> QUESTION: Does anyone know of a VW model with a TDI (or PD-TDI) >> engine >> that also has all-wheel drive (AWD)? From some limited searching >> online, it seems that the only AWD VW's are the billion dollar >> Phaeton, >> the too-big Toureg, or the still pricey Passat. >> Basically, I am looking for a car with a diesel or TDI engine that is >> also all wheel drive. Doesn't even have to be a VW, if there is >> something else out there. >> Any suggestions??? >> >> Thanks >> Dana >> >> Quoting Jurgen Henn : >> >> > Chris >> > go for it! Get a used one - new cars a bit of a rip-off. The main >> > question in the fuel technology arena is what year: pre 2004 or >> 2004 >> > and later. In 2004 VW introduced the Pumpe Duese (PD) TDI engine, >> > which works a bit differently from the pre-2004 engines, so >> there is >> > less long-term info re. biodiesel use. I have spoken with owners of >> > PD-TDIs and no one had any serious complaints. Search the TDI club >> > forums on this issue: >> > http://forums.tdiclub.com/ >> > (Great resource!!) >> > >> > Here in Durham, I would also recommend taking the vehicle to an >> > independent mechanic, not to the local VW dealer ... >> > >> > Oh - manual shift is a good choice, I think. I tried an >> automatic and >> > did not like it. >> > >> > Grease be with you! >> > >> > Jurgen >> > >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > Jurgen Henn >> > 2002 Jetta TDI >> > 40/50 MPG on biodiesel >> > http://words.yovo.info/ >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > >> > Chris . Connor wrote: >> >> I am considering jumping into the diesel/biodiesel pool. I >> think that a >> >> Beetle (manual tranny only) would fit the bill for my needs. >> Those >> >> needs would be reliable transportation for my wife and kids >> that I can >> >> get worked on by others without much hassle. Would those with >> vast >> >> experience out there be willing to share advice with a neophyte, >> >> non-mechanical know nothing? All info, good, bad or >> indifferent would >> >> be greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Chris Connor >> >> cconnor@luckstone.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:45:11 -0400 >> From: Randall Lanou >> To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] 4wd Diesels, VW's >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Precedence: list >> Message: 7 >> >> Chris >> >> You can buy any full size truck in diesel and 4wd. My company has a >> Dodge 2500 and a Ford F250 (and a Sprinter and a VW) that we run on >> biodiesel. The fuel economy is only about 20 mpg with the big >> pick-ups. The Jeep Liberty 4wd is also available in diesel >> (automatic >> only). >> >> BTW, I recently bought a new Jetta for about 22K. That was only few >> grand more than I have seen 2 and 3 year old used TDI's advertised >> for. >> I love the car and thought it was a better deal. It runs >> perfectly on >> B99. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Randall Lanou >> BuildSense, Inc. >> >> office 919.667.0404 >> mobile 919.247.5430 >> fax 919.667.9984 >> >> "It's like boxing a glacier. Enjoy that metaphor, because your >> grandchildren will have no idea what a glacier is." -- Steven >> Colbert, >> Associated Press Dinner Speech. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:06:09 -0500 >> From: rickyb@rickyb.net >> To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >> Cc: Tom Waters >> Cc: Tim Drye >> Cc: Rick Blevins >> Cc: Van Coe >> Cc: Keith Hanes >> Cc: Martha Ware >> Cc: tcbrown@wfubmc.edu >> Cc: Thibault Worth >> Cc: Jay Jenkins >> Cc: jamestm@cityofws.org >> Cc: Jones Abernethy >> Cc: Dan Moore >> Cc: Lan Holtsclaw >> Cc: Marcus Wright >> Cc: rhoneysl@surry.net >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Starting a co-op >> Message-ID: <20060808180609.7B4A61099C0@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Precedence: list >> Message: 8 >> >> We finally got an answer from the Secretary of State on how to >> form a co-op= >> . I am enclosing their reply in the body of this email for anyone >> interest= >> ed. >> >> >> >> Mail Envelope Properties (44D1EEF3.AA5 : 21 : 15013) >> >> Subject: Re: starting a coop >> Creation Date 8/3/2006 8:40:37 AM >> From: "daniel crabbe" >> >> >> Mr. Blevins: >> >> Cooperative Organizations are formed under Chapter 54 of the NC >> General Sta= >> tutes. Our office does not provide a form for a cooperative >> organization. = >> Please review Article 16 of Chapter 54 and Articles 18 and 19 of >> Chapter 5= >> 4. These sections describe how to form a cooperative organization >> in North= >> Carolina and the various requirements for the Articles of >> Incorporation. = >> The NC General Statutes may be viewed online at www.ncleg.net. >> Please feel= >> free to contact me with any further questions you may have >> regarding this = >> matter.=20=20 >> >> Sincerely, >> Daniel Crabbe >> Lead Examiner, Corporations Division >> NC Dept. of the Secretary of State >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> End of Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 >> ****************************************************** >> > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group Matthew Rudolf Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 17:11:10 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed Aug 23 16:09:30 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] ethanol an imposter? Message-ID: <84a57a420608231311s370e321es6b71954e0a869ff5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:10:00 -0400 From: Jim Symon To: "Biofuels Group (E-mail)" Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] cellulosic I read this as saying the Xethanol plant WILL be doing cellulosic ethanol. If so it seems like pretty big news. Are there any other commercial cellulosic plants on line yet? Outside of cellulosic, I've been viewing ethanol as a biofuel imposter, an agribusiness scam because of questionable sustainability ratios and non-neutral CO2 emissions during production. Am I wrong? Jim Symon ******************** Hey Jim! I agree with much of what Marc Ambrose wrote. In my mind, the comparison must be made with the dominant paradigm we are hoping to replace as we move towards a more sustainable future. That's oil, fossil fuels, and the wasteful economy, right? It costs 1.8 units to get 1 usable unit of fossil fuel out of the ground and into your fuel-tank. I dunno what the current life-cycle energy cost figures are for sugar/starch ethanol. I realize it is a source of hot debate, but let's suppose it's 1.3 to 1, as Marc suggested. Heck, even if the lifecycle costs / energy ratio were the same (ethanol the same as gasoline), I'd still be supportive of ethanol. Why? We come out ahead because we're transferring that much less fossil CO2 into the atmosphere. To the extent that ADM can supplant EXXON, I'm cool with that. I feel we must pursue all the pieces: Conservation, mass transit, reshaping our neighborhoods, as well as new supplies of renewable energy. >From conversations around the Piedmont Biofuels Coop Refinery, I gather that soy-based commercial biodiesel has an energy ratio of something like 1 to 3: Three units of usable energy for every single unit of energy input. We had a graduate student do a life-cycle analysis on our little homebrew system (where we use recycled veggie oil feedstock, solar thermal for process heat, gravity, handpumping, etc.). As I recall, he found that we deliver 7 units for every 1 unit input. (But that's because, by using waste oil, we get to charge off the production of that oil to the restaurant.) But the role homebrew biodiesel can play, globally, is quite small. Even industrial scale biodiesel refineries using waste veggie oil will be limited by the supply of used grease. Many folks are fond of saying there is no silver bullet for killing the Climate Change / Peak Oil monster. I prefer to think of a silver shotgun instead of a silver bullet. As in a shotgun shell, it may take 500 to 1,000 technologies/strategies to knock out the target. I figure, about half the shot-pellets have "supply-side" written on them, the other half say "demand-side". To be perfectly honest, it bugs me that so many people dismiss sugar/starch ethanol out-of-hand. "It's too corporate." "It's environmentally destructive." "They'll force their GMOs on us." "The MegaAgri-Business Lobby is evil." Yeah, but is it worse than sucking dead dinosaurs out of the ground in regions where we are not wanted? Is it worse than the evil of the Oil-NG-Coal lobby? I've never known an Iowa corngrower's son to be a suicide bomber. I prefer to think big picture: And as bad is the problem, and as long as it will take to fix, I don't think we can afford to dismiss any ethanol at this point in time. JMHO. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Join with me in marching to http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/ From perkinsfam at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 16:36:49 2006 From: perkinsfam at yahoo.com (Brian Perkins) Date: Wed Aug 23 18:35:12 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: when replying Message-ID: <20060823223649.99382.qmail@web60312.mail.yahoo.com> biofuels_interest_group-request@lists.emji.net wrote: > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Biofuels_Interest_Group digest..." > And when replying, please edit your post so that you're not including everything that everybody has posted. Be selective in what you quote (if anything) so as not to waste the time of other readers. When I receive posts like that, I just delete the whole thing rather than taking the (precious) time sifting through for the actual content for some scrap of new or potentially interesting information. Thank you for your kind consideration of all subscribers, Brian __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 19:43:33 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed Aug 23 18:41:59 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: ethanol an imposter? Message-ID: <84a57a420608231543i7375bc62u5afcfed838b558c2@mail.gmail.com> Hey Jurgen, My response to you got bounced because your email service has blacklisted Gmail accounts. (See below.) Not the first time: Can you put me in your safe list? To answer your question about the source/citation for the fossil fuels energy life-cycle analysis, I am repeating what I recall from Rachel Burton and Leif Forer's "Intro to Biofuels" class at CCCC. Their whole curriculum is on the website: http://www.biofuels.coop/education.shtml#curriculum Thanks, John ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Date: Aug 23, 2006 6:37 PM Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) To: john.bonitz@gmail.com This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: biodiesel@yovo.info Technical details of permanent failure: PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 550-Message rejected because ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175] is 550 blacklisted at relays.ordb.org see ----- Original message ----- Received: by 10.66.216.6 with SMTP id o6mr503606ugg; Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.28.1 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <84a57a420608231537l5da89018r62cea5bb46e029a8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 18:37:42 -0400 From: "John Bonitz" To: "Jurgen Henn" Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] ethanol an imposter? Cc: "Burton@blast, Rachel" , "Forer, Leif" In-Reply-To: <44ECD748.4070207@yovo.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <84a57a420608231311s370e321es6b71954e0a869ff5@mail.gmail.com> <44ECD748.4070207@yovo.info> Hey Jurgen, I am repeating what I recall from Rachel Burton and Leif Forer's "intro to biofuels" class at CCCC. Their whole curriculum is on the website. Not sure I could direct you to the specific page, so I'm Cc:ing Rachel and Leif in case they recall the link. Thanks, John From CConnor at luckstone.com Thu Aug 24 10:24:59 2006 From: CConnor at luckstone.com (Chris . Connor) Date: Thu Aug 24 09:23:28 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F8463E@5825-ml.luck.net> Before we get too excited about ethanol in Spring Hope, here is some additional info.....as much as I would like to see it work, this does not look to promising. Chris http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/moonshine_blindness.html http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/xethanol_update.html#more From biodiesel at yovo.info Thu Aug 24 10:53:55 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Thu Aug 24 09:52:14 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NPR story on biodiesel Message-ID: <44EDAF73.6060608@yovo.info> While I am not a big fan on fluff pieces that are short on facts, this is a pretty entertaining roundup of some of the texas alt. fuel nuts: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5698538 I think the BioWillie-Green-Trucker image probably works well for biodiesel. It paints us a bit into a "fringy" corner of society, but it also gives a face to the "fuel issue" which usually only revolves around the price at the pump and wars in dusty, far-away countries. Praise the Lard! Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn biodiesel@yovo.info 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From steve at gogoetz.com Thu Aug 24 12:39:39 2006 From: steve at gogoetz.com (Stephen Goetz) Date: Thu Aug 24 11:39:53 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... In-Reply-To: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F8463E@5825-ml.luck.net> Message-ID: <44EDC8AE.E4A5E.236D@pop.directnic.com> Look further, much of this has been refuted by both company officials and impartial third party analysts. Look on the Yahoo finance pages to read the news coverage of this company. Impartiality in coverage of small stocks is especially important. As you can see from this story, Sharesleuth's billionaire backer, Mark Cuban, had a vested interest in driving the share price down. Just a caveat emptor - do you due diligence before you invest your hard-earned cash. http://biz.yahoo.com/indie/060821/200_id.html?.v=1 I personally have a vested interest (a few hundred dollars) in the company, but more importantly I believe in the approach - cellulose waste to ethanol instead of siphoning off corn from the world food supply. My apologies to the group for the digression into finance, but let's keep looking to those who will build our energy future on renewable energy. Stephen Goetz -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Chris . Connor Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:25 AM To: BIG Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... Before we get too excited about ethanol in Spring Hope, here is some additional info.....as much as I would like to see it work, this does not look to promising. Chris http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/moonshine_blindness.html http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/xethanol_update.html#more _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From CConnor at luckstone.com Thu Aug 24 12:48:51 2006 From: CConnor at luckstone.com (Chris . Connor) Date: Thu Aug 24 11:47:06 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... In-Reply-To: <44EDC8AE.E4A5E.236D@pop.directnic.com> Message-ID: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F84642@5825-ml.luck.net> Please don't take the original post the wrong way. I hope all this info is not correct, and they are successful with this project, but stuff like this make me wonder. I have heard from some that most are saying that the commercial technology they are promoting is a couple of years away from being ready for prime time. Personally I am not the investor type, so I do not have a dog in the fight, but would hate to see another alternative fuel get a black eye if the some people are not in it for the long haul and just trying to make a quick buck. c2 -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Goetz Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:40 AM To: Chris . Connor; 'BIG' Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... Look further, much of this has been refuted by both company officials and impartial third party analysts. Look on the Yahoo finance pages to read the news coverage of this company. Impartiality in coverage of small stocks is especially important. As you can see from this story, Sharesleuth's billionaire backer, Mark Cuban, had a vested interest in driving the share price down. Just a caveat emptor - do you due diligence before you invest your hard-earned cash. http://biz.yahoo.com/indie/060821/200_id.html?.v=1 I personally have a vested interest (a few hundred dollars) in the company, but more importantly I believe in the approach - cellulose waste to ethanol instead of siphoning off corn from the world food supply. My apologies to the group for the digression into finance, but let's keep looking to those who will build our energy future on renewable energy. Stephen Goetz -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Chris . Connor Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:25 AM To: BIG Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... Before we get too excited about ethanol in Spring Hope, here is some additional info.....as much as I would like to see it work, this does not look to promising. Chris http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/moonshine_blindness.html http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/xethanol_update.html#more _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. ______________________________________________________________________ From newobjects at nc.rr.com Thu Aug 24 14:27:12 2006 From: newobjects at nc.rr.com (Toby Sarver) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:25:57 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... In-Reply-To: <251B95786C295C48BD9C2E0D678D84B508F84642@5825-ml.luck.net> Message-ID: <200608241727.k7OHRUMS011734@ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com> Folks, I don't think this is a "digression into finance". Whether the allegations are true or not, If we want alternative energy to be perceived as a viable direction (i.e., worthy of investment), then we collectively have a vested interest in keeping alternative energy companies honest, and exposing those who are not. With every frontier there comes the "snake-oil salesmen" and "carpetbaggers". We have to play "watchdog" in this new frontier in order to show that fraud doesn't pay, and protect the investment that has been or could be made in the industry, not just a single company. I'll get off my soap box now. Stay vigilant. --Toby Sarver Member of Piedmont Biofuels (http://biofuels.coop) -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Chris . Connor Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:49 AM To: BIG Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... Please don't take the original post the wrong way. I hope all this info is not correct, and they are successful with this project, but stuff like this make me wonder. I have heard from some that most are saying that the commercial technology they are promoting is a couple of years away from being ready for prime time. Personally I am not the investor type, so I do not have a dog in the fight, but would hate to see another alternative fuel get a black eye if the some people are not in it for the long haul and just trying to make a quick buck. c2 -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Goetz Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:40 AM To: Chris . Connor; 'BIG' Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... Look further, much of this has been refuted by both company officials and impartial third party analysts. Look on the Yahoo finance pages to read the news coverage of this company. Impartiality in coverage of small stocks is especially important. As you can see from this story, Sharesleuth's billionaire backer, Mark Cuban, had a vested interest in driving the share price down. Just a caveat emptor - do you due diligence before you invest your hard-earned cash. http://biz.yahoo.com/indie/060821/200_id.html?.v=1 I personally have a vested interest (a few hundred dollars) in the company, but more importantly I believe in the approach - cellulose waste to ethanol instead of siphoning off corn from the world food supply. My apologies to the group for the digression into finance, but let's keep looking to those who will build our energy future on renewable energy. Stephen Goetz -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Chris . Connor Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:25 AM To: BIG Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on info Xethanol..... Before we get too excited about ethanol in Spring Hope, here is some additional info.....as much as I would like to see it work, this does not look to promising. Chris http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/moonshine_blindness.html http://sharesleuth.com/2006/08/xethanol_update.html#more _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Aug 24 14:29:36 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:27:54 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] SEE Expo this weekend in Western NC! Message-ID: <41A2A794-7F14-4C2F-BEF1-A204AD96527C@blast.com> Hey folks! This weekend is the SEE Expo, our regional renewable energy fair. Piedmont Biofuels and other renewable energies organizations will be exhibiting and providing free talks and workshops. The Southern Energy & Environment Expo, being held at the The Western N.C. Agricultural Center in Fletcher NC, is an annual event designed to showcase renewable energy and sustainable economics in a context of responsible environmental stewardship. By working together in a cooperative spirit, we CAN make a difference for the future of our children and our planet. Admission only $8 a Day! Admission price includes all one hour presentations! For directions and details, visit: www.seeexpo.com If you want to jump in with the Piedmont folks, the Biobus will be carpooling from the Pittsboro/Chatham County area. We may have a few open seats available, give us a call at the office 919-321-8260 Take care, Rachel Burton Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop 919-321-8260 rachel@biofuels.coop From terhorst at email.unc.edu Thu Aug 24 14:38:51 2006 From: terhorst at email.unc.edu (Marc ter Horst) Date: Thu Aug 24 13:37:19 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] cellulose ethanol Message-ID: <44EDE42B.5070603@email.unc.edu> Making cellulose ethanol an economically viable option is not a trivial matter. A company in Canada, Iogen, has been working on the first pilot/demonstration plant, see for example: http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/05/golman_sachs_in.html For information on their process: http://www.iogen.ca/cellulose_ethanol/what_is_ethanol/process.html Xethanol plans to use technology from research done at NREL. I think the trick is bringing the cost of the enzyme down to make the process cost competitive. *2004 R&D 100 Award:* "Enzymatic Hydrolysis of Biomass Cellulose to Sugars (for the production of fuels and chemicals)," Genencor International, Novozymes Biotech Inc., National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL). The NREL/DOE Biomass Program process design for breaking biomass down to sugars for subsequent fermentation to ethanol and other fuels and chemicals is based on enzymatic rather than thermochemical hydrolysis of cellulose. Our studies indicate this has greater potential for reduced effective cost in the long run. A key element of that reduced cost is lower cellulase enzyme cost. We therefore contracted with two major enzyme producers to reduce the cost of their respective cellulase mixtures. Both companies met their goals of reducing enzyme cost ten-fold, a very key contribution to biorefinery technology. http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/ From john.bonitz at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 17:44:26 2006 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Thu Aug 24 16:42:42 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Xethanol Message-ID: <84a57a420608241344x73ea5a01q38362b8f3c209af2@mail.gmail.com> Mark Cuban is a notorious stock trader. I first learned of him in the late 90s, through extensive discussions on The Motley Fool website. He is a "pump & dumper" and a short-trader. He is well known for several egregious examples of either promoting or dissing stocks in which he had financial interest. I haven't the time to evaluate the links provided (sharesleuth or whatever), but I would take it with a huge grain of salt. I also agree that there are valid realms of discussion of finance and stocks, as they are related to the world of biofuels R&D and production and industry growth. All of which is entirely relevant to the way our society will be shaped in the future. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Join with me in marching to http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/ From biodiesel at yovo.info Thu Aug 24 23:33:19 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Thu Aug 24 22:31:37 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Methanol drums for biodiesel storage Message-ID: <44EE616F.9020101@yovo.info> Has anyone seen problems when storing biodiesel in methanol drums? I just pumped 20 gallons of homebrew into an old methanol drum and now the stuff comes out murky looking. There was probably a swig of methanol left at the bottom - but no more than a swig. I put a bubbler in a couple of gallons to see if it clears up again. I am also re-reacting a test batch ... Any ideas? Jurgen From jsymon at safenet-inc.com Fri Aug 25 09:31:38 2006 From: jsymon at safenet-inc.com (Jim Symon) Date: Fri Aug 25 08:29:54 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] ethanol an imposter? Message-ID: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC365D@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> John, ...pursue all the pieces...silver shotgun... yep ...1.8...1.3... Ok. Say for current-industry corn ethanol it takes 1.3 units of terrorism, war, and carbon compared to 2.8 units of twc for petro to put my monomolecular layer of rubber on the road. That certainly is better, but the number is greater than one. The "extent that ADM can supplant EXXON" still requires EXXON. That path eventually must be abandoned. If ethanol gets big you end up with two entrenched, powerful (not evil) industries fighting to maintain their vested interest in a non-sustainable fuel market. The fight for sustainability becomes even more difficult after the multi-million dollar "go yellow" advertising campaign convinces people that corn is green. The fight is hard enough now despite fairly universal acceptance that oil is bad. Sustainability caveats should be injected into every discussion of ethanol and every letter to editors and politicians. If giant farm corn production ramps up in the name of energy independence, the next PR/political battle will be spun as being anti-farmer. Not good. Push now for a distinction between green ethanol and yellow. Jim Symon The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. From tbuckner at ibiblio.org Fri Aug 25 11:51:22 2006 From: tbuckner at ibiblio.org (tbuckner@ibiblio.org) Date: Fri Aug 25 10:49:33 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biofuels performance art? In-Reply-To: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC365D@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> References: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC365D@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> Message-ID: <36419.152.2.60.242.1156517482.squirrel@secure.ibiblio.org> Anyone know of any biofuels performance artists? We're looking for someone to perform at Campus Sustainability Day (UNC-CH). If you are an artist or know of one who might be interested in talking with us--this is just conceptual right now--please ask them to contact me at tbuckner@fac.unc.edu. Thanks, Terri From rickyb at rickyb.net Fri Aug 25 13:02:13 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:00:26 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Winston Co-op Message-ID: <20060825170214.0FA339EFE6@ws6-2.us4.outblaze.com> We mailed in our articles to the Secretary of State day before yesterday. We should hopefully hear back from them within a couple of days. It looks like we should be an official coop in a few days. Also does any know anything about a 2000 bond needed to make biodiesel? I had an email from someone concerning that question. thanks in advance. From rickyb at rickyb.net Fri Aug 25 13:14:41 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:12:53 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Winston Co-op Message-ID: <20060825171441.415E3109B59@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com> My bad. Yes a $2000 bond. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Wright" > To: rickyb@rickyb.net > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Winston Co-op > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:10:45 -0400 > > > What kind of "2000 bond"?? Are we talking money type bonds?? > > Let me know if you guys want me to run a GC analysis on your B100. Marcus > > On 8/25/2006 1:02 PM, rickyb@rickyb.net wrote: > > > We mailed in our articles to the Secretary of State day before > > yesterday. We should hopefully hear back from them within a > > couple of days. It looks like we should be an official coop in a > > few days. > > > > Also does any know anything about a 2000 bond needed to make > > biodiesel? I had an email from someone concerning that question. > > thanks in advance. > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > > > > > > > From msuppan at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 15:11:29 2006 From: msuppan at gmail.com (Manfred Stanfield) Date: Fri Aug 25 14:09:39 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Winston Co-op Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060825141127.063a6e98@gmail.com> I am pretty sure that it is referring to paying the NC state road tax. See this URL for more information/details: http://www.biofuels.coop/taxes.shtml Manfred At 01:14 PM 8/25/2006, you wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marcus Wright" > > To: rickyb@rickyb.net > > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Winston Co-op > > Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:10:45 -0400 > > > > What kind of "2000 bond"?? Are we talking money type bonds?? > > > > Let me know if you guys want me to run a GC analysis on your B100. Marcus > > > > On 8/25/2006 1:02 PM, rickyb@rickyb.net wrote: > > > > > We mailed in our articles to the Secretary of State day before > > > yesterday. We should hopefully hear back from them within a > > > couple of days. It looks like we should be an official coop in a > > > few days. > > > > > > Also does any know anything about a 2000 bond needed to make > > > biodiesel? I had an email from someone concerning that question. > > > thanks in advance. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > Manfred Stanfield MCT, MCSE, MCP+I MSuppan@gmail.com "The 4 R's - Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, and Respect." - Manfred Stanfield "The man who would choose security over freedom deserves neither." - Thomas Jefferson "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin From alizard at ecis.com Sat Aug 26 16:48:41 2006 From: alizard at ecis.com (A.Lizard) Date: Sat Aug 26 18:46:50 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] cellulose ethanol In-Reply-To: <20060825180949.69CF6111D61@mail2.blast.com> References: <20060825180949.69CF6111D61@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20060826154545.7bb6b210@mail.ecis.com> At 06:09 PM 8/25/2006, you wrote: From what I remember of studies done with respect to cellulosic ethanol, the ability of iogen to sell it at 90 cents/gallon basically depends on demand staying small enough that they can use ag waste and wood chippings as a base, once they have to pay farmers to grow switchgrass to feed their plants, their prices will go up by quite a bit. Which doesn't make this a bad idea, just keep in mind that supercheap ethanol will be a short-term phase, not the future of transportation energy. A.Lizard >Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:38:51 -0400 >From: Marc ter Horst >To: "'BIG'" >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] cellulose ethanol >Message-ID: <44EDE42B.5070603@email.unc.edu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Precedence: list >Message: 2 > >Making cellulose ethanol an economically viable option is not a trivial >matter. A company in Canada, Iogen, >has been working on the first pilot/demonstration plant, see for example: > >http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/05/golman_sachs_in.html > >For information on their process: > >http://www.iogen.ca/cellulose_ethanol/what_is_ethanol/process.html > >Xethanol plans to use technology from research done at NREL. I think >the trick is bringing the cost of the enzyme down to make the process >cost competitive. > >*2004 R&D 100 Award:* "Enzymatic Hydrolysis of Biomass Cellulose to >Sugars (for the production of fuels and chemicals)," Genencor >International, Novozymes Biotech Inc., National Renewable Energy >Laboratory (NREL). The NREL/DOE Biomass Program process design for >breaking biomass down to sugars for subsequent fermentation to ethanol >and other fuels and chemicals is based on enzymatic rather than >thermochemical hydrolysis of cellulose. Our studies indicate this has >greater potential for reduced effective cost in the long run. A key >element of that reduced cost is lower cellulase enzyme cost. We >therefore contracted with two major enzyme producers to reduce the cost >of their respective cellulase mixtures. Both companies met their goals >of reducing enzyme cost ten-fold, a very key contribution to biorefinery >technology. > >http://www.nrel.gov/biomass/ member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild. "You can't have in a democracy various groups with arms - you have to have the state with a monopoly on power." Condoleeza Rice, US Secretary of State Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard business Website http://www.reptilelabs.com backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard@gmail.com PGP 8.0 key available by request or keyserver. Download PGP from: http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy. Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html ***Looking for INTELLIGENT new technology public policy alternatives?*** http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/technology.html From hogarth at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 11:48:11 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Mon Aug 28 10:46:14 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Dictator mobile for sale Message-ID: <3889aa560608280748q7944caf9lb05c4bab344f7d92@mail.gmail.com> I'm just passing this on - contact Chris Haney at the address/phone below for info. The title is my private joke - this is a lovely model but I always imagine these being used to drive around some South American or African dictator. It -would- look boss amored, you've got to admit! ;-) ******************************** New Michelin Pilot tires, AC serviced last month. Some extra filters and parts included. 183,000 miles $5,500 Located in Apex NC 919.362.1318 evenings chrismhaneyatbellsouth.net From hogarth at gmail.com Mon Aug 28 11:48:49 2006 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Mon Aug 28 10:46:47 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: Dictator mobile for sale In-Reply-To: <3889aa560608280748q7944caf9lb05c4bab344f7d92@mail.gmail.com> References: <3889aa560608280748q7944caf9lb05c4bab344f7d92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3889aa560608280748q44e8af4dobb5a53ece63bd745@mail.gmail.com> GRRR. I forgot the model information!!! 1991 Mercedes 350 SDL Sorry! On 8/28/06, Susan Hogarth wrote: > I'm just passing this on - contact Chris Haney at the address/phone > below for info. The title is my private joke - this is a lovely model > but I always imagine these being used to drive around some South > American or African dictator. It -would- look boss amored, you've got > to admit! ;-) > > ******************************** > New Michelin Pilot tires, AC serviced last month. Some extra filters and > parts included. > > 183,000 miles > $5,500 > > Located in Apex NC > > 919.362.1318 evenings > chrismhaneyatbellsouth.net > -- Susan Hogarth http://www.colliething.com From jsymon at safenet-inc.com Mon Aug 28 13:31:03 2006 From: jsymon at safenet-inc.com (Jim Symon) Date: Mon Aug 28 12:29:03 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Shell exec comments Message-ID: <06EC80D6ECEB204997F3B7A799D3485C07EC3664@bel1mail002.sfnt.local> Of interest: http://www.cleantechblog.com/2006/08/thoughts-from-shell.html The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. From marc at theforestfoundation.org Mon Aug 28 13:51:27 2006 From: marc at theforestfoundation.org (Marc Dreyfors-President) Date: Mon Aug 28 12:57:33 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Sustainable Heating and Cooling for the home... soon?! Message-ID: Hey All, Just spoke with Dr. Henkel from Chapel Hill, who is working on a variety of sustainable energy projects and is on the Board of NCSEA. I called in response to a person is looking for green options to replace her oil furnance. I told her of the Green Building Conference Sept 7th coming up at the McKimmomon Center, and what we have learned about converting fuel oil furnances to run biodiesel (i.e. clogging and burner issues). Dr. Henkel told me of Broad China's production of residential Absorption Chiller heating and cooling systems that he figures are two years out from being sold in the US. These will likely be 4.6 ton units, duel fired, either gas or #2 fuel oil/biodiesel and modified to use solar hot-water. "Solar hot water and absorption chiller heating and cooling systems can use natural gas or biofuels for backup when solar resources are low and permanently relieve the grid of electric power demand, (with 1000 tons of cooling displacing approximately 1 MW of demand). A solar-driven 2E absorption chiller with fuel backup will use about one-third the primary fuel for space cooling that the average electric A/C unit consumes." The systems have been available for years to commercial markets in 50 to 250 ton versions, and residential version are available in China. http://www.broad.com/english/include/en_index_pro.htm >From what little research I have done, this seems the best coming technology (and may be cheaper than geothermal). Of course, the best bang for the buck is energy conservation, weatherization and good home design (and a nice alpaca sweater and quilts for cold nights!). FYI Marc CarolinaBiofuels.org From biodiesel at yovo.info Mon Aug 28 16:45:08 2006 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Mon Aug 28 15:43:07 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] rubber hose and biodiesel Message-ID: <44F347C4.5010203@yovo.info> Hi there, the problem I posted recently re. the murky color of the biodiesel after pumping it from an empty methanol drum seems to have been caused by the hose of the pump (brand-new Tuthill Fill-Rite Rotary Hand Pump). After sitting around in a bucket it cleared up a bit, and a small amount of tiny rubber bits settled at the bottom of the bucket. Additional biodiesel I pumped from the same drum, same batch, using a new PVC hose was unchanged and not murky. QUESTION: If I filter the thusly discolored, murky biodiesel to 5 microns, is it usable in a '02 TDI? Or should I wash it again? Any opinions, experiences? Thanks, Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn 2002 Jetta TDI 40/50 MPG on biodiesel http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From wooster at coastalnet.com Tue Aug 29 10:15:36 2006 From: wooster at coastalnet.com (BENJAMIN F BARNES) Date: Tue Aug 29 09:13:43 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Wilson-Rocky Mount Message-ID: <410-220068229131536984@coastalnet.com> Are there any members of this list serv in the Wilson- Rocky Mount NC area? If so I think we should make contact and possibly pool resources and info Thanks Ben Barnes From wooster at coastalnet.com Tue Aug 29 10:15:38 2006 From: wooster at coastalnet.com (BENJAMIN F BARNES) Date: Tue Aug 29 09:13:48 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Wilson-Rocky Mount Message-ID: <410-220068229131538125@coastalnet.com> Are there any members of this list serv in the Wilson- Rocky Mount NC area? If so I think we should make contact and possibly pool resources and info Thanks Ben Barnes From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Aug 30 09:53:22 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Aug 30 08:52:21 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] TDI parts car wanted References: <20060830012415.18570.qmail@web31112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87885DA6-B1E4-4504-979E-9DDA812B5D14@blast.com> Hello Big list, I have a friend looking for a TDI parts car for some diesel projects... > ..looking for an A4 chassis (99.5 to 2004 golf or jetta, or new > beetle) vw tdi parts car ....it has to be a five speed manual with > the ALH engine....wrecked beyond repair ok....flooded ok....some > engine damage ok....mileage is not important....I need the parts to > complete two projects then life would be perfect...... You can email him directly > flamingbuddhamonkey@yahoo.com > Thanks, Rachel Burton Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop 919-321-8260 rachel@biofuels.coop From dave at kovach.com Wed Aug 30 08:48:18 2006 From: dave at kovach.com (David Kovach) Date: Wed Aug 30 11:45:27 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing Message-ID: <20060830154818.D0E7F4F4EA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Hi all - Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... ya know... the shortest line between... Looking forward to the grand opening :-) Best Regards - David From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Aug 30 15:14:10 2006 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Aug 30 14:15:40 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: 1985 300TD References: Message-ID: <2D4E6627-3DC8-4D5A-8D75-5ECF4F3D6837@blast.com> Mercedes for sale: Begin forwarded message: > > 1985 Mercedes 300TD for sale. Lovely car in great shape. Almost > 270K, good compression . . asking $7000, open to bartering or > unconventional financing. > Call 919.923.3222 > > Hannah From lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us Thu Aug 31 02:00:50 2006 From: lpetrovick at co.wake.nc.us (lpetrovick@co.wake.nc.us) Date: Thu Aug 31 00:58:36 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Larry M Petrovick/CDS/Wake County is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 08/30/2006 and will not return until 09/11/2006. I will respond to your message when I return on 09/11/06. From aibodkin at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 10:06:21 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Thu Aug 31 09:04:06 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing In-Reply-To: <20060830154818.D0E7F4F4EA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20060830154818.D0E7F4F4EA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage the essential cost reductions. Thanks, Andy On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: > Hi all - > > Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... ya know... the shortest line between... > > Looking forward to the grand opening :-) > > Best Regards - > > David > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From evan at biofuels.coop Thu Aug 31 12:40:01 2006 From: evan at biofuels.coop (Evan Ashworth) Date: Thu Aug 31 11:37:48 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing In-Reply-To: References: <20060830154818.D0E7F4F4EA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <3894edcc995256c2d32570aaa2f656ff@biofuels.coop> This is an important discussion, so I wanted to weigh in. The International Center for Technology Assessment release a report in '94 called "The Real Price of Gasoline." It's on our website. It estimated that petroleum actually costs between $6-$15 a gallon, and the low American prices at the pump hide the tremendous cost of drilling, defending, transporting, and refining liquid petroleum fuels. European fuel is sitting at $5-$6/gallon, which is a little closer to the actual cost. Building a sustainable world requires that we understand and respect the impacts of our fuel production and use, and a higher price is the best motivation to think about efficient vehicles and sustainable lifestyles. Biodiesel at $3.50/gallon is cheap, and it won't be long until the price of petroleum is way above that. In any case, cheap fuel is not the reason that Piedmont Biofuels exists--the benefits of clean, renewable, domestic fuel are priceless. Cheers, -Evan On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:06 AM, A Bodkin wrote: > That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage > others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively > priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, > ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping > there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage > the essential cost reductions. > > Thanks, > Andy > > On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: >> Hi all - >> >> Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per >> gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if >> its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume >> volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is >> probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... >> ya know... the shortest line between... >> >> Looking forward to the grand opening :-) >> >> Best Regards - >> >> David >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From aibodkin at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 13:18:50 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Thu Aug 31 12:16:33 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing In-Reply-To: <3894edcc995256c2d32570aaa2f656ff@biofuels.coop> References: <20060830154818.D0E7F4F4EA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> <3894edcc995256c2d32570aaa2f656ff@biofuels.coop> Message-ID: Wonderful and noble aspirations to be sure, but the separation of Dollars and Sense occurs at the bottom line. I don't recall anyone asking for "cheap fuel" but if we can't compete with petrol, if we can't drive the costs associated with manufacture of biofuel vs. importing biofuel, where is the sense in manufacturing vs. just reselling? If the costs associated with manufacturing can be alleviated by using all available resources toward consumer cost reductions, I hope they have been evaluated for viability... Objectively if the benefits of clean, renewable, domestic fuel are the goal, the more vehicles using it the more benefit is realized...few people in the mainstream are going to drive out of their way, to pay MORE for their fuel, to realize a virtually immeasurable return, it be an easier sell if it is a "break even" proposition.... ~A On 8/31/06, Evan Ashworth wrote: > This is an important discussion, so I wanted to weigh in. > > The International Center for Technology Assessment release a report in > '94 called "The Real Price of Gasoline." It's on our website. It > estimated that petroleum actually costs between $6-$15 a gallon, and > the low American prices at the pump hide the tremendous cost of > drilling, defending, transporting, and refining liquid petroleum fuels. > > European fuel is sitting at $5-$6/gallon, which is a little closer to > the actual cost. > > Building a sustainable world requires that we understand and respect > the impacts of our fuel production and use, and a higher price is the > best motivation to think about efficient vehicles and sustainable > lifestyles. > > Biodiesel at $3.50/gallon is cheap, and it won't be long until the > price of petroleum is way above that. In any case, cheap fuel is not > the reason that Piedmont Biofuels exists--the benefits of clean, > renewable, domestic fuel are priceless. > > Cheers, > > -Evan > > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:06 AM, A Bodkin wrote: > > > That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage > > others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively > > priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, > > ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping > > there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage > > the essential cost reductions. > > > > Thanks, > > Andy > > > > On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: > >> Hi all - > >> > >> Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per > >> gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if > >> its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume > >> volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is > >> probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... > >> ya know... the shortest line between... > >> > >> Looking forward to the grand opening :-) > >> > >> Best Regards - > >> > >> David > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From marc at theforestfoundation.org Thu Aug 31 14:36:45 2006 From: marc at theforestfoundation.org (Marc Dreyfors-President) Date: Thu Aug 31 13:41:59 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I disagree, new technologies always enter the market at the high-end. In this case, I don't expect fuel prices (bio or petro) to lessen as we are exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet for food (competitor for feedstock), it ability to absorb pollution, and a source of other materials. The market system is broken and unless bottom-lines are made "real" by regulation and ethical decisions by consumers and producers, we are toast. That is why it is critical to shop wisely, consume less and lobby like hell to get our leaders and government to fix the system. -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net]On Behalf Of A Bodkin Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:19 PM To: Evan Ashworth Cc: David Kovach; biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing Wonderful and noble aspirations to be sure, but the separation of Dollars and Sense occurs at the bottom line. I don't recall anyone asking for "cheap fuel" but if we can't compete with petrol, if we can't drive the costs associated with manufacture of biofuel vs. importing biofuel, where is the sense in manufacturing vs. just reselling? If the costs associated with manufacturing can be alleviated by using all available resources toward consumer cost reductions, I hope they have been evaluated for viability... Objectively if the benefits of clean, renewable, domestic fuel are the goal, the more vehicles using it the more benefit is realized...few people in the mainstream are going to drive out of their way, to pay MORE for their fuel, to realize a virtually immeasurable return, it be an easier sell if it is a "break even" proposition.... ~A On 8/31/06, Evan Ashworth wrote: > This is an important discussion, so I wanted to weigh in. > > The International Center for Technology Assessment release a report in > '94 called "The Real Price of Gasoline." It's on our website. It > estimated that petroleum actually costs between $6-$15 a gallon, and > the low American prices at the pump hide the tremendous cost of > drilling, defending, transporting, and refining liquid petroleum fuels. > > European fuel is sitting at $5-$6/gallon, which is a little closer to > the actual cost. > > Building a sustainable world requires that we understand and respect > the impacts of our fuel production and use, and a higher price is the > best motivation to think about efficient vehicles and sustainable > lifestyles. > > Biodiesel at $3.50/gallon is cheap, and it won't be long until the > price of petroleum is way above that. In any case, cheap fuel is not > the reason that Piedmont Biofuels exists--the benefits of clean, > renewable, domestic fuel are priceless. > > Cheers, > > -Evan > > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:06 AM, A Bodkin wrote: > > > That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage > > others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively > > priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, > > ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping > > there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage > > the essential cost reductions. > > > > Thanks, > > Andy > > > > On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: > >> Hi all - > >> > >> Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per > >> gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if > >> its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume > >> volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is > >> probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... > >> ya know... the shortest line between... > >> > >> Looking forward to the grand opening :-) > >> > >> Best Regards - > >> > >> David > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From rickyb at rickyb.net Thu Aug 31 13:51:08 2006 From: rickyb at rickyb.net (rickyb@rickyb.net) Date: Thu Aug 31 13:47:42 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing Message-ID: <20060831175108.E36ED13CD54@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> I believe, but I might be mistaken, what will the price be of the fuel? I think that is a fair question. Anyone entering the market should know what the cost and target price will be. So again what will the price be? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Dreyfors-President" > To: "A Bodkin" , biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:36:45 -0400 > > > I disagree, new technologies always enter the market at the high-end. In > this case, I don't expect fuel prices (bio or petro) to lessen as we are > exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet for food (competitor for > feedstock), it ability to absorb pollution, and a source of other > materials. The market system is broken and unless bottom-lines are made > "real" by regulation and ethical decisions by consumers and producers, we > are toast. That is why it is critical to shop wisely, consume less and > lobby like hell to get our leaders and government to fix the system. > > -----Original Message----- > From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net > [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net]On Behalf Of A > Bodkin > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:19 PM > To: Evan Ashworth > Cc: David Kovach; biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing > > > Wonderful and noble aspirations to be sure, but the separation of > Dollars and Sense occurs at the bottom line. I don't recall anyone > asking for "cheap fuel" but if we can't compete with petrol, if we > can't drive the costs associated with manufacture of biofuel vs. > importing biofuel, where is the sense in manufacturing vs. just > reselling? If the costs associated with manufacturing can be > alleviated by using all available resources toward consumer cost > reductions, I hope they have been evaluated for viability... > > Objectively if the benefits of clean, renewable, domestic fuel are the > goal, the more vehicles using it the more benefit is realized...few > people in the mainstream are going to drive out of their way, to pay > MORE for their fuel, to realize a virtually immeasurable return, it be > an easier sell if it is a "break even" proposition.... > > ~A > > > > On 8/31/06, Evan Ashworth wrote: > > This is an important discussion, so I wanted to weigh in. > > > > The International Center for Technology Assessment release a report in > > '94 called "The Real Price of Gasoline." It's on our website. It > > estimated that petroleum actually costs between $6-$15 a gallon, and > > the low American prices at the pump hide the tremendous cost of > > drilling, defending, transporting, and refining liquid petroleum fuels. > > > > European fuel is sitting at $5-$6/gallon, which is a little closer to > > the actual cost. > > > > Building a sustainable world requires that we understand and respect > > the impacts of our fuel production and use, and a higher price is the > > best motivation to think about efficient vehicles and sustainable > > lifestyles. > > > > Biodiesel at $3.50/gallon is cheap, and it won't be long until the > > price of petroleum is way above that. In any case, cheap fuel is not > > the reason that Piedmont Biofuels exists--the benefits of clean, > > renewable, domestic fuel are priceless. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Evan > > > > > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:06 AM, A Bodkin wrote: > > > > > That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage > > > others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively > > > priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, > > > ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping > > > there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage > > > the essential cost reductions. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Andy > > > > > > On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: > > >> Hi all - > > >> > > >> Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per > > >> gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if > > >> its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume > > >> volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is > > >> probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... > > >> ya know... the shortest line between... > > >> > > >> Looking forward to the grand opening :-) > > >> > > >> Best Regards - > > >> > > >> David > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From aibodkin at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 14:59:35 2006 From: aibodkin at gmail.com (A Bodkin) Date: Thu Aug 31 13:57:19 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "I disagree, new technologies always enter the market at the high-end. .." I agree with your disagreement... hmmm :0/ however, "new technologies" almost have immediate benefit. I bought a new computer I can process digits faster. I bought a flat screen DLP TV...I can hang it on the wall, great picture and frees up space...I can pay more to put vegetables in my fuel tank, I get...um I get...I get the satisfaction of putting vegetables in my tank, I hate vegetables... :0) most people in the mainstream (unless they are highly environmentally conscientious) are not going to go out of their way to fill up...until we have "maxed out" the waste oil that is being discarded, I don't think the Food vs Fuel debate is qualified...of course I am no subject matter expert but this should be a welcome discussion across the board...I need to have an explanation when trying to support my Biofuels arguments with friends family and other potential biofuel user prospects One thing I do know, I would rather the government keep their grabbing hands off Biofuel...they already had their shot with petrol and boy did they screw that up... Thanks Andy On 8/31/06, Marc Dreyfors-President wrote: > I disagree, new technologies always enter the market at the high-end. In > this case, I don't expect fuel prices (bio or petro) to lessen as we are > exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet for food (competitor for > feedstock), it ability to absorb pollution, and a source of other > materials. The market system is broken and unless bottom-lines are made > "real" by regulation and ethical decisions by consumers and producers, we > are toast. That is why it is critical to shop wisely, consume less and > lobby like hell to get our leaders and government to fix the system. > > -----Original Message----- > From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net > [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net]On Behalf Of A > Bodkin > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:19 PM > To: Evan Ashworth > Cc: David Kovach; biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing > > > Wonderful and noble aspirations to be sure, but the separation of > Dollars and Sense occurs at the bottom line. I don't recall anyone > asking for "cheap fuel" but if we can't compete with petrol, if we > can't drive the costs associated with manufacture of biofuel vs. > importing biofuel, where is the sense in manufacturing vs. just > reselling? If the costs associated with manufacturing can be > alleviated by using all available resources toward consumer cost > reductions, I hope they have been evaluated for viability... > > Objectively if the benefits of clean, renewable, domestic fuel are the > goal, the more vehicles using it the more benefit is realized...few > people in the mainstream are going to drive out of their way, to pay > MORE for their fuel, to realize a virtually immeasurable return, it be > an easier sell if it is a "break even" proposition.... > > ~A > > > > On 8/31/06, Evan Ashworth wrote: > > This is an important discussion, so I wanted to weigh in. > > > > The International Center for Technology Assessment release a report in > > '94 called "The Real Price of Gasoline." It's on our website. It > > estimated that petroleum actually costs between $6-$15 a gallon, and > > the low American prices at the pump hide the tremendous cost of > > drilling, defending, transporting, and refining liquid petroleum fuels. > > > > European fuel is sitting at $5-$6/gallon, which is a little closer to > > the actual cost. > > > > Building a sustainable world requires that we understand and respect > > the impacts of our fuel production and use, and a higher price is the > > best motivation to think about efficient vehicles and sustainable > > lifestyles. > > > > Biodiesel at $3.50/gallon is cheap, and it won't be long until the > > price of petroleum is way above that. In any case, cheap fuel is not > > the reason that Piedmont Biofuels exists--the benefits of clean, > > renewable, domestic fuel are priceless. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Evan > > > > > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:06 AM, A Bodkin wrote: > > > > > That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage > > > others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively > > > priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, > > > ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping > > > there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage > > > the essential cost reductions. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Andy > > > > > > On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: > > >> Hi all - > > >> > > >> Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per > > >> gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if > > >> its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume > > >> volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is > > >> probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... > > >> ya know... the shortest line between... > > >> > > >> Looking forward to the grand opening :-) > > >> > > >> Best Regards - > > >> > > >> David > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From dave at kovach.com Thu Aug 31 11:16:06 2006 From: dave at kovach.com (David Kovach) Date: Thu Aug 31 14:12:50 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing Message-ID: <20060831181606.674BB4F467@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> Certainly, okay PB doesnt exist cause of cheap fuel... but, is dollars and cents not always a part of the determing factor in the evolving mission of such an organization? If the Chatham Marketplace was so singularly focused on its original idea for forming - then bye bye CM at some point. All things evolve and I cannot believe that you would work against a lower priced retail biodiesel? Would you? I am shocked at that view. I live in the real-world and expend the mental energy to help shift the world into making the improbable probable. End World Hunger. NOT - End World Hunger, but to do so will require everyone moving to where the water is or "you can have this food flown in - but, it's gonna cost you quadruple! take it or leave it." I too would love to really educate this country on the subsized fictional pricing they are used to just to shake them up!! Shake em up enough to make them change their attitudes, behavior and thinking. If you want to go from 50 people using just a bit of biodiesel in a local community to 500,000 or 5,000,000 - well, then it sounds to me, we need another organization :-) to work this topic... Ethanol obviously has an arm that is not even making price a part of the discussion or marketing message. Obviously, their methods and piggybacking doesn't provoke the pricing question. They just contend with - "where are the Ethanol dealers and pumps?? If I need it - can I find it?" I never hear price even in discussions about Ethanol. If we are living or discussing a fantasy world of dreams and fluffy little ponies and dancing little rainbows (or where all consumers understand the noble values of why they must ahere to these real prices and do so now) then the benchmark to me is .01 cent per mile set by straight electric power... or some hydrogen solution... these become the real potential solutions... and biodiesel is just good for Willy's tourbus? I mean is - Willy Nelson touting biodiesel - just to have low income Texas families (or elsewhere) be expected to understand and adapt their already constrained lives even further to come to believe that to save the environment they must pay $8 a gallon to do so? I would rather be an Ed Begley Jr. and tout electric... Save the world or the environment only works when it is saved for everyone. Not just a select few that can afford it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A Bodkin" > To: "Evan Ashworth" > Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:18:50 -0400 > > > Wonderful and noble aspirations to be sure, but the separation of > Dollars and Sense occurs at the bottom line. I don't recall anyone > asking for "cheap fuel" but if we can't compete with petrol, if we > can't drive the costs associated with manufacture of biofuel vs. > importing biofuel, where is the sense in manufacturing vs. just > reselling? If the costs associated with manufacturing can be > alleviated by using all available resources toward consumer cost > reductions, I hope they have been evaluated for viability... > > Objectively if the benefits of clean, renewable, domestic fuel are the > goal, the more vehicles using it the more benefit is realized...few > people in the mainstream are going to drive out of their way, to pay > MORE for their fuel, to realize a virtually immeasurable return, it be > an easier sell if it is a "break even" proposition.... > > ~A > > > > On 8/31/06, Evan Ashworth wrote: > > This is an important discussion, so I wanted to weigh in. > > > > The International Center for Technology Assessment release a report in > > '94 called "The Real Price of Gasoline." It's on our website. It > > estimated that petroleum actually costs between $6-$15 a gallon, and > > the low American prices at the pump hide the tremendous cost of > > drilling, defending, transporting, and refining liquid petroleum fuels. > > > > European fuel is sitting at $5-$6/gallon, which is a little closer to > > the actual cost. > > > > Building a sustainable world requires that we understand and respect > > the impacts of our fuel production and use, and a higher price is the > > best motivation to think about efficient vehicles and sustainable > > lifestyles. > > > > Biodiesel at $3.50/gallon is cheap, and it won't be long until the > > price of petroleum is way above that. In any case, cheap fuel is not > > the reason that Piedmont Biofuels exists--the benefits of clean, > > renewable, domestic fuel are priceless. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Evan > > > > > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:06 AM, A Bodkin wrote: > > > > > That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage > > > others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively > > > priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, > > > ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping > > > there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage > > > the essential cost reductions. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Andy > > > > > > On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: > > >> Hi all - > > >> > > >> Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per > > >> gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if > > >> its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume > > >> volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is > > >> probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... > > >> ya know... the shortest line between... > > >> > > >> Looking forward to the grand opening :-) > > >> > > >> Best Regards - > > >> > > >> David > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > Best Regards, David 650-274-3736 cel 919-533-0139 alt From dave at kovach.com Thu Aug 31 14:15:21 2006 From: dave at kovach.com (David Kovach) Date: Thu Aug 31 17:11:48 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing Message-ID: <20060831211522.15C2B2027AC@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> Food for thought... QUOTE: "Scientists have projected that in the long run, ethanol made from biomass could be cheaper than gasoline or corn ethanol, costing as little as 60 cents a gallon to produce and selling for less than $2 a gallon at the pump. But right now it would be more expensive than gasoline, and the low prices are likely to be achieved only after large plants have been built and technical breakthroughs achieved in operating them." QUOTE: "The most promising future for biomass energy comes from developments to break down cellulose (often referred to as "cellulosic technology") so that all of a plant could get converted into ethanol and many more types of plants could serve as inputs to ethanol production.." Won't refinement of the technology required to manufacture reduce costs to produce and ultimately drive down final consumer pricing regardless of things having subsidy today or not? This is not apples to apples. Ulimately, the winner will be the one power solution that doesn't have to grapple with subsidies I bet - not recreate or retrain or think it has to deal in the all the politics around them. As was pointed out - I was just interested in Industrial's pricing. Not my own novice replies on the matter :-) From marc at theforestfoundation.org Thu Aug 31 18:59:00 2006 From: marc at theforestfoundation.org (Marc Dreyfors-President) Date: Thu Aug 31 18:07:36 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing In-Reply-To: <20060831211522.15C2B2027AC@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: Hey David, The question is did they do a "cradle to grave" assessment of true costs when they came up with $.60 a gallon? Biomass on this plant has a purpose, in some cases invaluable roles and purposes, i.e. Amazon's role in moderating climate and sequestration of carbon. High efficiency vehicles and energy conservation must play a greater role in our future and cheap energy is not likely to "drive" innovation. Marc -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net]On Behalf Of David Kovach Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:15 PM To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing Food for thought... QUOTE: "Scientists have projected that in the long run, ethanol made from biomass could be cheaper than gasoline or corn ethanol, costing as little as 60 cents a gallon to produce and selling for less than $2 a gallon at the pump. But right now it would be more expensive than gasoline, and the low prices are likely to be achieved only after large plants have been built and technical breakthroughs achieved in operating them." QUOTE: "The most promising future for biomass energy comes from developments to break down cellulose (often referred to as "cellulosic technology") so that all of a plant could get converted into ethanol and many more types of plants could serve as inputs to ethanol production.." Won't refinement of the technology required to manufacture reduce costs to produce and ultimately drive down final consumer pricing regardless of things having subsidy today or not? This is not apples to apples. Ulimately, the winner will be the one power solution that doesn't have to grapple with subsidies I bet - not recreate or retrain or think it has to deal in the all the politics around them. As was pointed out - I was just interested in Industrial's pricing. Not my own novice replies on the matter :-) _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From agiles at cape.com Thu Aug 31 21:15:24 2006 From: agiles at cape.com (Allen Giles) Date: Thu Aug 31 20:43:15 2006 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005001c6cd5b$b8a42140$7701a8c0@YOUR1FEA1ED08B> Folks, hang on to your hat. A bit of macro perspective for you. If you think we have it tough now, just wait till China & India finish their deals with PDVSA. Citgo and Hess will only be able to sell gasoline. No USLD is allowed to come to the US from Venezuela now. Soon they'll shut down the crude coming to up the Gulf & NY/NJ refineries. Most of the refineries in the Medertirrian and Rea Sea are not equipped to mfg ULSD. Sulfur content too high; all the diesel will move to developing countries which have no mandates. What ever ULSD is available is going to the EU where there is more margin to be made. Be prepared for the USLD price spike in October. China signed the Kyoto and is about ready to eliminate the 27% import duty on biofuels. Brazil and Argentina are preparing off-take agreements for biodiesel and ethanol with China and India that will make your head spin. China is throwing money around to build what ever it takes. Malaysia will be producing more Palm Biodiesel in the next 2/3 years than the current world's total production in anticipation of China's and India's demand. ABCD (Archer,Bunge,Cargil,Dryfus)has contracts for 90% of the worlds soybean, canola and rapeseed. If you think they are going to lower their prices so we can have low cost fuel, we're all dreaming. They make more money making margarine than they do biodiesel. Low cost second generation biofuels are going to have to make their way to the US market in the next 3-5 years or we are really going to feel the pain. Good news is if you have IP for a process; there's tons of money being thrown at it, just like the early Internet days. Hope this make you feel better; I just got back from the EU where diesel is cheaper than gas and it is still over $4.00 US per gallon. The next President better make a trip to meet with the OPEC ministers like the Chinese have, along with a special visit to Venezuela and Brazil. The current Biodiesel Blenders Credit was a good first step, but because of the way it is structured, biodiesel will always be $1.00 more than the wholesale price of diesel; no matter what the feedstock price is. There must be an incentive to dive the feedstock prices down and increase the supply. Just to let you folks in on a little secret, many terminal operators have been buying low cost biodiesel and blending in with the diesel and not telling you; anywhere from 2-10%. Most of it went to extend the LSD inventory before it was phased out in anticipation for this October's turn over to ULSD. After the Blender's credit is applied, they have been making 5-6 cents more per gallon over the past 6 months. Folks are going to be quite surprised at how much biodiesel has been blended when the reports come out at the beginning of next year. You might notice that's it's a bit more than the US produced. Lots of biodiesel has been coming in from Canada and from Malaysia. They are also, blending biodiesel with 1/10 of 1% diesel to make it available for the $1 Blender's Credit and shipping it to the EU where they blend it with the Rapeseed Biodiesel to make it less expensive. Boats of B99.9 biodiesel, 10,000 MT (2.9 million gallons) at a time are leaving Houston headed for Rotterdam every day. -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Marc Dreyfors-President Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:37 PM To: A Bodkin; biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing I disagree, new technologies always enter the market at the high-end. In this case, I don't expect fuel prices (bio or petro) to lessen as we are exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet for food (competitor for feedstock), it ability to absorb pollution, and a source of other materials. The market system is broken and unless bottom-lines are made "real" by regulation and ethical decisions by consumers and producers, we are toast. That is why it is critical to shop wisely, consume less and lobby like hell to get our leaders and government to fix the system. -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net]On Behalf Of A Bodkin Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:19 PM To: Evan Ashworth Cc: David Kovach; biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Industrial Pricing Wonderful and noble aspirations to be sure, but the separation of Dollars and Sense occurs at the bottom line. I don't recall anyone asking for "cheap fuel" but if we can't compete with petrol, if we can't drive the costs associated with manufacture of biofuel vs. importing biofuel, where is the sense in manufacturing vs. just reselling? If the costs associated with manufacturing can be alleviated by using all available resources toward consumer cost reductions, I hope they have been evaluated for viability... Objectively if the benefits of clean, renewable, domestic fuel are the goal, the more vehicles using it the more benefit is realized...few people in the mainstream are going to drive out of their way, to pay MORE for their fuel, to realize a virtually immeasurable return, it be an easier sell if it is a "break even" proposition.... ~A On 8/31/06, Evan Ashworth wrote: > This is an important discussion, so I wanted to weigh in. > > The International Center for Technology Assessment release a report in > '94 called "The Real Price of Gasoline." It's on our website. It > estimated that petroleum actually costs between $6-$15 a gallon, and > the low American prices at the pump hide the tremendous cost of > drilling, defending, transporting, and refining liquid petroleum fuels. > > European fuel is sitting at $5-$6/gallon, which is a little closer to > the actual cost. > > Building a sustainable world requires that we understand and respect > the impacts of our fuel production and use, and a higher price is the > best motivation to think about efficient vehicles and sustainable > lifestyles. > > Biodiesel at $3.50/gallon is cheap, and it won't be long until the > price of petroleum is way above that. In any case, cheap fuel is not > the reason that Piedmont Biofuels exists--the benefits of clean, > renewable, domestic fuel are priceless. > > Cheers, > > -Evan > > > On Aug 31, 2006, at 9:06 AM, A Bodkin wrote: > > > That is a great question, it is discouraging to try to encourage > > others to use "green fuel" when the green fuels are not competitively > > priced. When I am explaining the benefits to a prospective user, > > ALWAYS the first question is "how much does it cost?". I am hoping > > there is a plan to utilize the co-ops membership as labor to leverage > > the essential cost reductions. > > > > Thanks, > > Andy > > > > On 8/30/06, David Kovach wrote: > >> Hi all - > >> > >> Once industrial is online and producing - what is the projected per > >> gallon $ price going to be? How low can it possibly go? Obviously, if > >> its driven down by .50 cents then wow... but, somehow I would assume > >> volume production could drive it even lower. Thoughts? This is > >> probably in your book or in your course or online curriculm... but... > >> ya know... the shortest line between... > >> > >> Looking forward to the grand opening :-) > >> > >> Best Regards - > >> > >> David > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group