From n2dsky at charter.net Sat Oct 1 23:32:34 2005 From: n2dsky at charter.net (SWiley) Date: Sat Oct 1 22:30:35 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Gas to diesel conversions Message-ID: I ran across a blog or link recently that discussed a company in Florida that was converting vehicles to diesel. Now I can't find the link. Anyone able to help? Thanks in advance Steve From karlynmeow at hotmail.com Sun Oct 2 14:54:14 2005 From: karlynmeow at hotmail.com (Karlyn Jensen) Date: Sun Oct 2 13:54:17 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] ***SPAM*** mechanics Message-ID: Has anyone used any of the following in Chapel Hill/Durham for service on a VW tdi? And were they good? Absolute Automotive, Passport Motors, Automotive Solutions -Karlyn "Regret is more frightening than failure." "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot "Be the change you wish to see in the world." -Ghandi From duluthbiodiesel at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 18:40:53 2005 From: duluthbiodiesel at gmail.com (Duluth Biodiesel Co-op) Date: Sun Oct 2 18:40:53 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Gas to diesel conversions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <878221c50510021540o26d659b3n3bfaa3c5a0cfbdf2@mail.gmail.com> I also read about a company in Florida who imports used diesel engines from Japan and Europe (?). Don't have a link either... On 10/1/05, SWiley wrote: > I ran across a blog or link recently that discussed a company in Florida > that was converting vehicles to diesel. Now I can't find the link. Anyone > able to help? > > Thanks in advance > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From forrest at truffula.net Mon Oct 3 04:55:21 2005 From: forrest at truffula.net (Forrest English) Date: Mon Oct 3 06:55:21 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Gas to diesel conversions In-Reply-To: <878221c50510021540o26d659b3n3bfaa3c5a0cfbdf2@mail.gmail.com> References: <878221c50510021540o26d659b3n3bfaa3c5a0cfbdf2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52b0bdbe666d9997642bbe2ffbd5e02f@truffula.net> Howdy, I've read a couple of less than thrilled responses regarding work that the Florida company has done. There's one here: http://www.toyotadiesel.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_author=Boyd http://www.toyotadiesel.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=796&highlight= I was considering having them diesel up my truck once, but red flags went up for me after talking to AJ a couple of times and I changed my mind. Glad I did now. They also sell engines on eBay, which also seem just as sketchy. They can't seem to keep the engine's apart, often recycling the same pictures for different, never really knowing milage, guaranteeing 30+ mpg, etc. If an engine swap is what you're after, I'd suggest hunting down a local mechanic who you trust to do it and a reliable source for engines or halfcuts. On Oct 2, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Duluth Biodiesel Co-op wrote: > I also read about a company in Florida who imports used diesel engines > from Japan and Europe (?). Don't have a link either... > > On 10/1/05, SWiley wrote: >> I ran across a blog or link recently that discussed a company in >> Florida >> that was converting vehicles to diesel. Now I can't find the link. >> Anyone >> able to help? >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> Steve >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > -- Forrest English PGP Key: http://truffula.net/~forrest/pub.key 8EC5 F031 E8BC 1BA7 B572 5C32 BAF4 2073 F96C 06AC From newobjects at nc.rr.com Mon Oct 3 16:41:02 2005 From: newobjects at nc.rr.com (Toby Sarver) Date: Mon Oct 3 15:41:07 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Celebrate my first tank of biodiesel Message-ID: <4341894E.2090103@nc.rr.com> Folks, Celebrate with me about getting my first tank of biodiesel!! I went to Bull City Biodiesel where Natalie helped me pump some sweet, yellow biodiesel into my Ford F250 PSD. I bought it about a month ago purely for the purpose of carrying veg. oil and burning biodiesel (eventually home-made, that is, my garage). I put in 20 gallons of biodiesel at $3.50/gal, then went to an Exxon for about 15 gallons of low-sulfur petro-diesel at $3.40/gal. I know the biodiesel will loosen up all the crud in the fuel system, but I'm hoping that running less than B100 will slow down the process until I can learn to change the fuel filter. On the other front, I've arranged with the owner of El Dorado to pick up veg. oil (and the 4.6 gal. containers). I delivered an HDPE storage container (22 gal) for him to dump into. I'll let you know how that's going. I've asked my diesel mechanic to help me get converted to SVO; he's still researching it. I took Peter Denz's advice about getting my mechanic involved, instead of taking on the responsibility for all future repairs on my engine. He said it's common for mechanics to blame the conversion for problems, even if they're unrelated. Let me know if this topic interests you, and I'll post Peter's useful, cautionary advice. Keep it green, --Toby Sarver newobjects@nc.rr.com From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Oct 4 09:32:25 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Oct 4 08:32:18 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Biodiesel Bulletin - Oct. 3, 2005 References: <8214459.1128379058213.JavaMail.atg@atg2.prod> Message-ID: <93CEA422-7A0C-4A63-83AF-F31AA41C4FC9@blast.com> > > > > In This IssueOctober 3, 2005 > > Minnesota Implements B2 Standard > DaimlerChrysler Commits Land to Future Biodiesel Plant > Ohio Governor Announces Alternative Fuel Investment > TxLED Implementation Postponed; Biodiesel Certification Underway > Biodiesel Plays Gripping Role in Hurricane Relief > > France Steps Up Use of Biofuels > New Guidelines on Blending in the Cold > Clean Cities Coalitions Celebrate ?Beyond a Billion? > Bonnie Raitt Continues to Sing the Praises of Biodiesel > Farm Aid Concert Gives Biodiesel an Encore > Minnesota Implements B2 Standard > > Minnesota became the first to successfully implement a statewide > initiative that blends two percent biodiesel (B2) throughout its > entire diesel fuel supply last week. > Sept. 29 marked the official implementation of the effort after the > state met all requirements contained in the March 2002 legislation > that received bipartisan support. Minnesota has exceeded the > legislative requirement that the state have biodiesel production > capacity of at least eight million gallons a year. The state now > leads the nation with its annual biodiesel production capacity of > 63 million gallons. > > ?Many people talk about doing something to help change our energy > situation in this country; in Minnesota they don?t just talk - they > took a stand and did something about it,? said Joe Jobe, chief > executive officer National Biodiesel Board (NBB). ?Today, biodiesel > produced in Minnesota from soybeans grown in Minnesota, is flowing > through the veins of the state?s energy infrastructure. Liquid > solar energy from the Midwest is replacing oil from the Mid-East. > Minnesotans should be proud.? > > The Minnesota Soybean Growers Association (MSGA) first introduced > the B2 legislation in 2000 and again in 2001. With the help of many > clean air advocates and agricultural organizations, including NBB, > the legislation that had become known as the ?B2 legislation? > passed and resulted in three biodiesel plants in Redwood Falls, > Albert Lea and Brewster, with combined production capacity that far > exceeds the production requirement to implement the B2 rule. > > ?An economic study completed by the Minnesota Department of > Agriculture estimates that using just B2 blends will increase the > demand for soybean oil in Minnesota by 92 million pounds ? that?s > the equivalent of 8.5 million bushels of soybeans,? said Bob Worth, > President of MSGA. ?But we already have school bus fleets, trucking > firms and municipal fleets using a twenty percent blend ? B20. > Minnesotans really embraced biodiesel for three basic reasons: It?s > better for the environment, it?s good for the economy and it helps > our nation reduce its dependence on foreign oil.? > > The biodiesel blend will also help meet an operational need in > diesel starting in 2006. Next year, ultra-low sulfur diesel will be > phased in nationwide, and some sort of lubricity additive will be > required. Two percent biodiesel fully restores the needed lubricity > to prevent premature engine wear and tear in diesel engines. > back to top > > > DaimlerChrysler Commits Land to Future Biodiesel Plant > > NextEnergy Center, a research facility focused on developing > alternative energy technology, is bringing together automakers and > biodiesel producers to further biodiesel research and development. > > At the grand opening of the research center, located in Detroit?s > Tech Town community, NextEnergy CEO Jim Croce announced plans with > Biodiesel Industries and DaimlerChrysler to research the > development of oil producing crops that can be grown on existing > ?Brownfield? sites to produce feedstocks for renewable, alternative > fuels, as well as further refinement of biodiesel standards. Croce > also announced plans for Biodiesel Industries to build a biodiesel > production plant in Detroit. > > ?Biodiesel Industries has many years of advanced development and > production experience in the otherwise young biodiesel industry,? > said Croce. ?Given the tremendous national market demand for their > product, we are delighted that Biodiesel Industries has chosen > Detroit for their next biodiesel production facility.? > > Biodiesel Industries plans to build a three million gallon-per-year > biodiesel production facility. It will be the sixth such production > project completed by Biodiesel Industries, which already posts the > largest network of company owned biodiesel production facilities in > the world. > > DaimlerChrysler committed currently unused land at a former > SuperFund environmental site for use in producing soybeans for > NextEnergy research programs. DaimlerChrysler has promoted use of > biodiesel fuel nationally with the launch of the Jeep? Liberty CRD > diesel, which was fueled at the factory with B5, a five percent > biodiesel blend. > > NextEnergy is a non-profit organization created by the State of > Michigan to advance the Alternative Energy Technology industry in > Michigan. The organization hosted a Grand Opening of the NextEnergy > Center facility on Sept. 29. > back to top > > > Ohio Governor Announces Alternative Fuel Investment > Governor Bob Taft announced in September that after a successful > pilot program, the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) is now > fully integrating alternative fuels into its fleet. By executive > order, the Governor asked ODOT to use at least one million gallons > of biodiesel fuel and 30,000 gallons of ethanol per year, and to > purchase only new cars that are able to run on both unleaded fuel > and ethanol. > > ODOT uses about four million gallons of diesel fuel a year to fuel > its 4,200 pieces of heavy equipment that can run on biodiesel or > diesel fuel. The equipment includes pick-up trucks, dump trucks > (snow plows) and off-road equipment. > > "Thanks to the governor's leadership, ODOT has been testing the use > of alternative fuels since 1999," said ODOT Director Gordon > Proctor. "We are ready to make a seamless transition to using at > least one million gallons of biodiesel fuel each year, in addition > to other alternative fuels such as ethanol." > back to top > > > TxLED Implementation Postponed; Biodiesel Certification Underway > > Biodiesel and other fuels in Texas are in testing in response to > the state revising air quality compliance plans. The air quality in > approximately 110 east Texas counties is out of compliance with the > federal Clean Air Act?s standard for ground-level ozone. Because of > this, a change in the formulation (physical properties) of diesel > fuel offered for sale in those non-attainment counties is > forthcoming. The goal of this, and other, changes is to reduce NOx > emissions and other pollutants from diesel-powered vehicles and non- > road equipment. The new low emission diesel fuel is commonly > referred to as ?TxLED.? > > Biodiesel is covered by these new ?TxLED? regulations. The > executive director of the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality > (TCEQ) has determined that blending biodiesel into TxLED must be > approved by TCEQ as being equivalent to TxLED in reducing NOx > emissions. > > These new fuel property requirements were set to take effect for > fuel producers October 1, but that date has been delayed for 30 > days due to the impact on refining and distribution infrastructure > from the recent hurricanes. > > To date, one biodiesel blend formulation has been certified by > TCEQ. The certified blend is a B20 utilizing biodiesel made by > Biodiesel Industries and the additive Viscon. > > The National Biodiesel Board (NBB), industry members, and > stakeholders have been engaged in this issue for many months and it > is one of the industry?s top regulatory priorities. > > NBB is partnering with Octel-Starreon to test a B20 blend using > biodiesel meeting ASTM D6751 and utilizing one of their NOx > reducing additives. NBB is also testing another B20 utilizing a > generic cetane improver which has shown to lower NOx through work > done at the National Renewable Energy Lab, and a B20 using a third > additive which is yet to be selected. Testing is scheduled for late > October/first week of November. > > Metropolitan areas covered by the TxLED requirement include > Houston, Beaumont/Pt. Arthur, Austin, San Antonio and Dallas/Ft. > Worth. > > Several entities in addition to the NBB have indicated a decision > to conduct TxLED equivalency testing for biodiesel blends. Those > entities include additive companies, biodiesel producers, and > biodiesel marketers. > back to top > > > Biodiesel Plays Gripping Role in Hurricane Relief > > The Veggie Van Organization, a nonprofit advocacy group based in > Venice, Calif., recently partnered with West Central, a farmer- > owned biodiesel company based in Iowa, to transport 13,000 gallons > of biodiesel in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. The donated fuel > powered two relief ships and emergency generators for makeshift > medical facilities. The ships took 12 tons of food, water, ice and > other relief supplies to the mouth of the Mississippi River. > > ?I thought I was looking at a scene from 'Apocalypse Now? at > times,? said Josh Tickell, biodiesel advocate and founder of the > Veggie Van Organization, who made the journey to Louisiana to > assist in aid. ?But it kept me going to know that by providing fuel > for the relief ships, we were doing something important to help the > victims.? Tickell grew up in Louisiana and has been promoting > biodiesel since 1997, when he toured the United States in his > biodiesel powered van. > > After almost a week working aboard the ship and in towns devastated > by Katrina, Hurricane Rita halted Tickell?s participation in the > relief effort. ?In less than 24 hours, I went from being a second- > response relief worker to an evacuee,? he said. > > After the Veggie Van was struck by debris outside of Lake Charles, > La., he was forced to leave it. However, Tickell has since located > the van and has said it received only minor storm damage. > > Former President Bill Clinton publicly endorsed the use of > biodiesel in the hurricane relief effort and in other applications. > Speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative (CGI), a global > conference to address the world?s most challenging problems, > Clinton thanked Biodiesel America, another Tickell venture. > > ?Biodiesel America is committed to mitigating climate change and > increasing America?s energy independence through public school > education on biodiesel and restoration of the coastal areas of > Louisiana with biodiesel-generated support systems,? Clinton said. > ?...this is a very, very important thing?I hope you become a > household name in America.? > > Tickell and NBB are continuing to help coordinate fuel donations to > hurricane stricken areas. To make a monetary donation, please visit > www.veggievan.org. > back to top > > > France Steps Up Use of Biofuels > French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin announced last month > that France will further increase its support of biofuels. The > French Government will move forward by two years (to 2008) its goal > of reaching a 5.75 percent target, setting a new target of seven > percent of biofuels market penetration by 2010, and a 10 percent > target for 2015. This follows many recent declarations from > government representatives repeating that the oil era is ending for > France. > > de Villepin also announced the launch of lower biofuels taxation by > the end of the year covering 1.8 million tonnes of biofuels. > > Also, recently, a new proposal for lower taxes on biofuels, > followed by mandatory targets, was announced in the Netherlands, > followed by the publication of no taxes on biofuels in the Belgian > market. > back to top > > > New Guidelines on Blending in the Cold > > In light of greater demand for biodiesel and a growing number of > petroleum distributors getting into the biodiesel business, an > industry-established Cold Flow Blending Consortium recently issued > results of a cold weather blending study. This project employed > experts in biodiesel and petrodiesel industries from both the U.S. > and Canada. > > The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) coordinated this study because > petroleum blenders and distributors wanted more data on the most > cost effective means to achieve a homogenous, or consistent, > biodiesel blend in cold weather. > > It is well known that biodiesel blends of B20 (fuel that is a 20 > percent biodiesel and 80 percent regular diesel blend) and lower > can be used in cold climates if the finished blend has appropriate > cold flow properties for the time of year and geography where it is > used. This study addressed questions from the petroleum industry > about how to achieve that stable blend in cold weather, especially > for a B2 blend, when the temperature of the diesel fuel is colder > than the point at which the pure biodiesel starts to freeze and > become cloudy (known as cloud point). > > According to the report, successful homogenous blending of B2 (2 > percent volume biodiesel) will occur if the biodiesel is > incorporated into the diesel stream as it is going from a storage > tank to a truck, and if the temperature of the biodiesel is a > minimum of 10 degrees F above the cloud point. The temperature of > the diesel fuel did not matter, as long as its temperature was > above its cloud point. This type of in-line blending is similar to > the way conventional diesel fuel additives are incorporated. > > Additives Systems Incorporated of Broken Arrow, Okla., the firm > selected to conduct the study, blended biodiesel with diesel fuel > at a variety of temperatures, including those seen in the > wintertime in Minnesota, the state that last week started a B2 > requirement in all its diesel fuel. Unadditized No. 1 and No. 2 > diesel fuels were selected, along with three biodiesels with a > range of cold flow properties. The fuels were selected to represent > the highest and lowest freezing temperatures expected of > petrodiesel and biodiesel in the U.S. and Canadian market. To > ensure quantitative data was obtained for in-line blending, > differential pressure drop measurements were collected. > > The full study can be accessed by visiting www.biodiesel.org/ > resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/20050728_Gen-354.pdf. > back to top > > > Clean Cities Coalitions Celebrate ?Beyond a Billion? > > Clean Cities Coalitions across the country will celebrate > displacing more than a billion gallons of oil on Friday, Oct. 14. > At the current per-barrel prices, the U.S. is now spending > approximately $300 billion per year for imported petroleum; about > $200 billion of this is for the transportation sector alone. > > Clean Cities, part of the U.S. Department of Energy?s Energy > Efficiency and Renewable Energy Office, builds partnerships with > industry stakeholders, fleets, fuel suppliers and others, with the > goal of decreasing petroleum use. The nation?s 88 Clean Cities > Coalitions focus on alternative fuels and other alternative energy > to help reduce the nation?s need for imported oil. > > Through those efforts, the Clean Cities initiative has reached the > milestone of displacing one billion fuel gallon equivalents of > petroleum, enough to fuel two million cars for a year. Clean Cities > Coalitions are holding events nationwide to commemorate the > ?billionth gallon saved.? > > ?By passing the billion gallon milestone, Clean Cities Coalitions > have shown they are making a difference on a local and a national > level,? said Kevin Herdler, St. Louis region Clean Cities > Coordinator. ?While our thirst for oil puts our economic and energy > security at risk, Clean Cities Coalitions across the country are > demonstrating options that work.? > > For more information on Clean Cities, visit the Web site at > www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities. > back to top > > > Bonnie Raitt Continues to Sing the Praises of Biodiesel > > As acclaimed musician Bonnie Raitt hits the road for her year-long > Souls Alike Tour, she is once again fueling her two diesel-powered > buses and two semis with environmentally friendly biodiesel (B20). > This tour continues the Green Highway eco-partnership she began in > 2002 on the Silver Lining Tour promoting biodiesel, the environment > and alternative energy solutions at shows and benefits along the way. > > "I believe we should do everything we can to minimize our impact on > the planet, and using biodiesel is a simple step that goes a long > way,? said Raitt. ?By using B20 on my Souls Alike Tour, we are > reducing pollution and putting a dent in imported petroleum. > Biodiesel has come so far in the last few years. It's wonderful to > see it gaining momentum - we can all benefit from more biodiesel use." > > In 2002, Raitt was the first major U.S. entertainer to adopt > cleaner burning American-made biodiesel for use on tour. Since > then, other performers have followed her lead by using biodiesel on > tour including, Willie Nelson (who also has his own ?BioWillie? > brand of the fuel); Neil Young; the Indigo Girls and Jack Johnson. > back to top > > > Farm Aid Concert Gives Biodiesel an Encore > > The Farm Aid concert to benefit family farmers, held this year > Sept. 18 near Chicago, used pure biodiesel (B100) supplied by > producer Stepan Company, in its generator set as well as in > artists? buses. Willie Nelson and Neil Young, two Farm Aid co- > founders and board members, both use biodiesel in their tour buses > and personal vehicles. > > ?At Farm Aid before, I said, there is a light at the end of the > tunnel and it?s called biodiesel,? Nelson said. ?We can use > soybeans, canola, mustard seed and other crops for our fuel. > American farmers need to be growing things we can be using for our > energy.? ?Farmers are lifeblood to the future of our nutritious > food supply, and to quality products we know were created and grown > with meticulous care,? said Jeff Nelson, Biodiesel Business Manager > of Stepan Company of Northfield, Ill., a member of the National > Biodiesel Board. ?Sponsoring some of the biodiesel is a small way > of giving back to that phenomenal group of people, while also using > their product.? > > Farm Aid Tractor Parade tractors highlighted their biodiesel use > with signage on Farm Aid weekend. Another role biodiesel played in > Farm Aid 2005 was fueling the Jeep Liberty Common Rail Diesel (CRD) > that was auctioned for benefit. > > John Mellencamp, another co-founder, and Dave Matthews make up the > two other members of the board of directors. Beyond the board > members? performances, others included Kenny Chesney, Los Lonely > Boys and Emmylou Harris. > > This was the second year of biodiesel use at Farm Aid, and Farm > Aid?s twentieth anniversary. > > > > > > > Upcoming Events > > > > Annual Meeting Biodiesel Congress > IBC - International Business Communications > October 17-18 > Rio de Janeiro > Ph. 5511 30176888 > biodiesel@ibcbrasil.com.br > > 2005 World Biofuels Symposium-China > Nov. 13-15 > Beijing > www.worldbiofuelssymposium.com > > > World Methanol Conference > Dec. 12 > South Beach, Fla. > www.cmaiglobal.com/index.html?conference/2005WMC/confwmc.htm > > > National Biodiesel Conference > Feb. 5-8, 2006 > San Diego > www.biodieselconference.org > > > Biofuels Markets > Feb. 16-17, 2006 > Brussels > www.biofuelsmarkets.com > back to top > > > This bulletin is also available in PDF format online at > http://www.biodiesel.org/news/bulletin/ > back to top > > From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Oct 5 09:37:32 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Oct 5 08:37:26 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] European Commission Okays Dutch/French Biodiesel JV Message-ID: <87A79EE7-055B-401F-A6B1-9E5D1131F7DE@blast.com> European Commission Okays Dutch/French Biodiesel JV Reuters reported last week that the European Commission (EC) has granted approval for a planned joint venture (JV) between French biodiesel and glycerin producer Diester Industrie International and The Netherlands' Koninklijke Bunge, a unit of leading oilseed producer Bunge Ltd. Under the JV, Reuters said the two organizations will combine their biodiesel assets, making the JV the largest biodiesel supplier in the EU. The news service noted that the JV will also offer glycerine, a byproduct of biodiesel. According to Reuters, EC reviewed the proposed JV and approved the plans, maintaining that there will still be "sufficient credible alternative suppliers after the merger." (RETUERS: 9/30) From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Oct 5 10:09:04 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Oct 5 09:08:57 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Natural Building & Renewable energy workshop References: <001901c5c924$a74d8c10$0303a8c0@NAMASTE> Message-ID: <6653D0DD-C877-4422-90BA-FDFCC69908C3@blast.com> > > Greetings from Solar Energy International (SEI)! > > SEI is coming to Maryland in November! SEI is partnering with the > Green Building Institute (GBI) to offer a weeklong Natural Building > and Renewable Energy workshop at a new green building center, > EnviroCenter, in Jessup, MD. Conveniently located near Washington > DC, Baltimore and Annapolis, the workshop begins on Monday November > 14th ending on Friday the 18th. > > This Natural Building and Renewable Energy workshop will provide > an overview of natural building, and covers how to use solar, wind, > and water power to generate electricity for homes. Architects, > builders, home owners and students will gain an excellent > introduction to the art and science of natural building materials, > techniques, and design considerations for straw bale, adobe, > pressed block, cob, natural plasters and more. Participants will > also learn how modern renewable energy systems, like solar electric > photovoltaic (PV) systems can provide utility independence and/or > can be used to 'buy and sell' electricity with the local utility > company. Presenters will explain the solar rebate program, discuss > tax incentives, and will address how to work with local > professionals in evaluating their practical renewable energy and > natural building options. > > Please join us for this exceptional workshop! Also, thanks for > helping us spread the word about our first Maryland renewable > energy workshops. SEI and GBI are looking forward to making these > mid-Atlantic workshops a success. Please visit our website for > additional information: > http://www.solarenergy.org/workshops/workshop.php?id=30 > > Please contact SEI with any workshop details or to register. > Please contact Jack Arnold, the executive director of the Green > Business Institute atjack@greenbuildinginstitute.org for any > logistical questions. > > > > Cheers, > The SEI Colorado Staff > www.solarenergy.org > 970-963-8855 > > Registration: Register online or at our Colorado office. For > details please visit www.solarenergy.org or contact SEI at > 970.963.8855 or sei@solarenergy.org. > SEI is a non-profit 501(c) 3 educational organization whose mission > is to help others to use renewable energy and natural building > technology through education and technical assistance. > > From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 10:50:15 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Wed Oct 5 09:50:17 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Purchase Methanol in Triangle? Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510050650l6d642470y14c0d66826c279fb@mail.gmail.com> Ok, I'm stumped. After moving beyond a blender batch using HEET where do I purchase methanol in quantity. I've called the local racing shops and googled/citysearched etc. I can't find a place in the Raleigh NC area that sells methanol. Where oh where ? -Richard- -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From tim_turner at ncsu.edu Wed Oct 5 11:01:37 2005 From: tim_turner at ncsu.edu (Tim Turner) Date: Wed Oct 5 10:02:00 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Purchase Methanol in Triangle? In-Reply-To: <4e961f6b0510050650l6d642470y14c0d66826c279fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4e961f6b0510050650l6d642470y14c0d66826c279fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1693.152.1.149.176.1128520897.squirrel@webmail.ncsu.edu> Richard, Try Brenntag Southeast Inc 2000 E Pettigrew St Durham, NC 27703-4049 Phone: (919) 596-0681 They sell and deliver 55 gallon drums. I also bought 100 lb KOH from them, I think. Tim > Ok, I'm stumped. After moving beyond a blender batch using HEET where > do I purchase methanol in quantity. I've called the local racing > shops and googled/citysearched etc. I can't find a place in the > Raleigh NC area that sells methanol. > > Where oh where ? > > -Richard- > -- > http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > -- Tim Turner Graduate Student Department of Mechanical Engineering NC State University 919 280 7663 From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Wed Oct 5 09:34:13 2005 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark J Ambrose) Date: Wed Oct 5 11:34:17 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Reflections on Pimental Lecture (long) Message-ID: <20051005153415.22482.fh051.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> Folks ? I went to the seminar at Duke last night by David Pimental, the Cornell prof. who wrote the article arguing that ethanol and biodiesel were losing propositions in terms of energy (i.e. that you put more energy in producing the fuels than you get out). It was interesting. A few observations: 1) One of the worst PowerPoint/slide presentations I?d seen in years: black text on white background, no graphs or figures to help make his case. Even worse than in his paper he just threw numbers up there with no justification. His units weren?t even consistent from slide to slide! Good grief, get a calculator and do the conversions before you put your talk together!! 2) From the Q & A it was obvious that much of the audience was skeptical of his findings. 3) A big problem when trying to critique his work is that his paper basically combines figures from a number of sources. His methodology is pretty sound, the big question is whether the numbers he selects to input are reasonable choices. You need to go back to his sources to check them. Few have the time for that. Even fewer have the expertise in agronomy AND engineering AND economics necessary to evaluate all of the numbers. (I have enough background in the bio sciences to pick out problems with just a couple of his Agro. inputs but couldn?t begin to evaluate the soy to oil to biodiesel processing numbers). 4) I hit him with a first question, citing inflated numbers for lime inputs for soybean production and was very prepared (had his own source cited in his paper in hand). His response was that he may need to look at those numbers again. It was kind of sad. I didn?t know what to make of the guy. Was he being dishonest or did he just do sloppy scientific research? Or did he just get wed to an idea (that liquid biofuels are losers in terms of energetics), which may have been valid when applied to ethanol produced with 1980?s technology, and utterly failed to see that the situation has changed? What is most frustrating is that there were some good points buried in his presentation that we all should be considering as we search for energy solutions. If he had done a solid, fair analysis of ethanol and biodiesel, these points would be taken more seriously and his work could have contributed to more intelligent debate over energy options. Some of the points worth considering: 1) There are environmental costs to renewable fuels. They may be much less than those associated with fossil fuels, but they aren?t zero. We need to factor in those costs. [Note: As a forester, my own personal concern is the effects of increasing the land area used for agriculture to produce all our biofuel needs. The US saw a massive conversion of forest and prairie to agriculture in its first century or so. During the mid 20th cent., the trend reversed and the forest area of the country increased significantly as farm land was taken out of cultivation. There were 2 main reasons for this: (1) new ag technology increased production on the best land so that more marginal lands were abandoned, and (2) fossil fuels meant we no longer needed much of the original biofuel for transportation and farm machinery, pasture and grain for horses and oxen. I do fear the environmental impact of a massive expansion of agriculture to produce huge quantities of biofuels. It may be the least of all evils, but it should be considered by policy makers.] 2) Our demand for liquid fuels is so high that it would be very difficult to meet ALL our needs with biofuels, so we must consider other energy options and find ways to reduce our energy use per capita as well. 3) His point: No one alternative energy source will be ?the answer.? My obvious corollary to that: We need to look at a lot of different sources of energy to meet some portion of our needs. 4) Gov?t subsidies for renewable fuels don?t always make good sense in terms of promoting the best alternatives, and they often end up benefiting large corporations rather than small producers. 5) Using biomass directly to generate electricity or to run factories is more energy efficient than converting biomass to liquid fuels. This is, I think, the most important point that he made. It suggests that, in the short run, it might be better to focus bio-energy efforts on biomass for electricity production, freeing scarce petroleum and natural gas for uses requiring more portable fuels. 6) Finally, the point I think he could have made if his analyses had been sound: Pimental?s paper concludes that biodiesel is a loser in terms of energy and that ethanol is even worse. I SUSPECT that, if he had done a better job in his analysis, he would have found that both ethanol and biodiesel had positive energy balances but that biodiesel would come out much better (distilling alcohol just takes a lot of energy). Combine that with the fact that soy requires no N fertilizer (less pollution in run-off) and that diesel engines are more efficient at converting the chemical energy in the fuel to mechanical energy than gasoline engines, and I would conclude that it makes sense to devote a limited land base for biofuels production to soy for diesel rather than corn for ethanol. I know some other folks on this list were there. Any other thoughts? -- Mark From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 13:11:59 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Wed Oct 5 12:12:05 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Purchase Methanol in Triangle? In-Reply-To: <1693.152.1.149.176.1128520897.squirrel@webmail.ncsu.edu> References: <4e961f6b0510050650l6d642470y14c0d66826c279fb@mail.gmail.com> <1693.152.1.149.176.1128520897.squirrel@webmail.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510050911h39c36616g876a2c1f99821cf3@mail.gmail.com> I called these folks at Brenntag Southeast Inc. Here's the breakdown on methanol sales They only sell to businesses (I have a busines so that's not a problem). But... Buyer must commit to minimum $2000/year in orders Prices are as follows 55gal drums tech grade methanol: Order: 1-3 drums $3.19/gal 4-9 drums $2.78/gal cheaper as you go up obviously. For each order there is a $37.50 fuel surcharge plus a $25 LAS (insurance) fee. I don't think I'd personally have cause to meet the minimum $2000/yr order so unless people across combine orders this wouldn't work. They also won't deliver to a residence. I have a truck and a trailer so that's not a big problem, but it might be for others. They also said they are no longer selling KOH. Any other places where individuals might be able to buy one or two drums at a time? Or other locations for KOH in bulk? -Richard- On 10/5/05, Tim Turner wrote: > Richard, > Try > > Brenntag Southeast Inc > 2000 E Pettigrew St > Durham, NC 27703-4049 > Phone: (919) 596-0681 > > They sell and deliver 55 gallon drums. I also bought 100 lb KOH from > them, I think. > Tim > > > Ok, I'm stumped. After moving beyond a blender batch using HEET where > > do I purchase methanol in quantity. I've called the local racing > > shops and googled/citysearched etc. I can't find a place in the > > Raleigh NC area that sells methanol. > > > > Where oh where ? > > > > -Richard- > > -- > > http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > -- > Tim Turner > Graduate Student > Department of Mechanical Engineering > NC State University > 919 280 7663 > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Oct 5 16:11:43 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Oct 5 15:11:31 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Reflections on Pimental Lecture (long) In-Reply-To: <20051005153415.22482.fh051.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> References: <20051005153415.22482.fh051.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> Message-ID: <37D23E1E-7B17-431B-B96F-4C427A156078@blast.com> Hey Mark! Have you read Lyle's take on the talk? http://www.biofuels.coop/blog/archives/000303.html In my opinion, we a different voice for biofuels on that lecture series. Pimentel dodged most every question he was asked last night. Overall, not a constructive discussion on the viability of biofuels as petroleum replacement. Coal is not the answer. What about air quality and emissions from coal- does that not matter? -Rachel On Oct 5, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Mark J Ambrose wrote: > Folks ? > > I went to the seminar at Duke last night by David > Pimental, the Cornell prof. who wrote the article > arguing that ethanol and biodiesel were losing > propositions in terms of energy (i.e. that you put more > energy in producing the fuels than you get out). It > was interesting. A few observations: > > 1) One of the worst PowerPoint/slide presentations I?d > seen in years: black text on white background, no > graphs or figures to help make his case. Even worse > than in his paper he just threw numbers up there with > no justification. His units weren?t even consistent > from slide to slide! Good grief, get a calculator and > do the conversions before you put your talk together!! > > 2) From the Q & A it was obvious that much of the > audience was skeptical of his findings. > > 3) A big problem when trying to critique his work is > that his paper basically combines figures from a number > of sources. His methodology is pretty sound, the big > question is whether the numbers he selects to input are > reasonable choices. You need to go back to his sources > to check them. Few have the time for that. Even fewer > have the expertise in agronomy AND engineering AND > economics necessary to evaluate all of the numbers. (I > have enough background in the bio sciences to pick out > problems with just a couple of his Agro. inputs but > couldn?t begin to evaluate the soy to oil to biodiesel > processing numbers). > > 4) I hit him with a first question, citing inflated > numbers for lime inputs for soybean production and was > very prepared (had his own source cited in his paper in > hand). His response was that he may need to look at > those numbers again. > > It was kind of sad. I didn?t know what to make of the > guy. Was he being dishonest or did he just do sloppy > scientific research? Or did he just get wed to an idea > (that liquid biofuels are losers in terms of > energetics), which may have been valid when applied to > ethanol produced with 1980?s technology, and utterly > failed to see that the situation has changed? > > What is most frustrating is that there were some good > points buried in his presentation that we all should be > considering as we search for energy solutions. If he > had done a solid, fair analysis of ethanol and > biodiesel, these points would be taken more seriously > and his work could have contributed to more intelligent > debate over energy options. Some of the points worth > considering: > > 1) There are environmental costs to renewable fuels. > They may be much less than those associated with fossil > fuels, but they aren?t zero. We need to factor in > those costs. [Note: As a forester, my own personal > concern is the effects of increasing the land area used > for agriculture to produce all our biofuel needs. The > US saw a massive conversion of forest and prairie to > agriculture in its first century or so. During the mid > 20th cent., the trend reversed and the forest area of > the country increased significantly as farm land was > taken out of cultivation. There were 2 main reasons > for this: (1) new ag technology increased production on > the best land so that more marginal lands were > abandoned, and (2) fossil fuels meant we no longer > needed much of the original biofuel for transportation > and farm machinery, pasture and grain for horses and > oxen. I do fear the environmental impact of a massive > expansion of agriculture to produce huge quantities of > biofuels. It may be the least of all evils, but it > should be considered by policy makers.] > > 2) Our demand for liquid fuels is so high that it > would be very difficult to meet ALL our needs with > biofuels, so we must consider other energy options and > find ways to reduce our energy use per capita as well. > 3) His point: No one alternative energy source will > be ?the answer.? My obvious corollary to that: We > need to look at a lot of different sources of energy to > meet some portion of our needs. > 4) Gov?t subsidies for renewable fuels don?t always > make good sense in terms of promoting the best > alternatives, and they often end up benefiting large > corporations rather than small producers. > 5) Using biomass directly to generate electricity or > to run factories is more energy efficient than > converting biomass to liquid fuels. This is, I think, > the most important point that he made. It suggests > that, in the short run, it might be better to focus > bio-energy efforts on biomass for electricity > production, freeing scarce petroleum and natural gas > for uses requiring more portable fuels. > 6) Finally, the point I think he could have made if > his analyses had been sound: Pimental?s paper > concludes that biodiesel is a loser in terms of energy > and that ethanol is even worse. I SUSPECT that, if he > had done a better job in his analysis, he would have > found that both ethanol and biodiesel had positive > energy balances but that biodiesel would come out much > better (distilling alcohol just takes a lot of energy). > Combine that with the fact that soy requires no N > fertilizer (less pollution in run-off) and that diesel > engines are more efficient at converting the chemical > energy in the fuel to mechanical energy than gasoline > engines, and I would conclude that it makes sense to > devote a limited land base for biofuels production to > soy for diesel rather than corn for ethanol. > > I know some other folks on this list were there. Any > other thoughts? > > -- Mark > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 16:38:31 2005 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Wed Oct 5 15:38:32 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Mark's review of Pimental's talk Message-ID: <84a57a420510051238n2003f316uefd160ee78617645@mail.gmail.com> Wow, Mark, Thanks for the beefy review of Pimental's talk. It's very helpful. I especially appreciate you taking the time to dig out something meaningful from what sounds like a very frustrating talk to sit through. My only comment on your observations is to dispute the conclusion in your second to last sentence: "Combine that with the fact that soy requires no N fertilizer (less pollution in run-off) and that diesel engines are more efficient at converting the chemical energy in the fuel to mechanical energy than gasoline engines, and I would conclude that it makes sense to devote a limited land base for biofuels production to soy for diesel rather than corn for ethanol." In my view the more sensible choice would be for America to devote some amount of agricultural production to oilseed crops OTHER than soy. Canola and mustard and some other oilseed varieties appear to have the potential of even lesser environmental impact than soy. I'm interested in seeing more oil per acre, less petro-chemical inputs required, more valuable side-products, and less vulnerability to the rusts and blights which could prove devastating to soy. I'm no agronomist, but I know enough to observe that there is insufficient research into these alternatives to soy. That's one reason why we at Piedmont Biofuels Cooperative have been experimenting with oilseed crops. http://www.biofuels.coop/newsblog/archives/2005/08/post.html It's a very compelling area of discussion, which makes me sad that Piemental was such a poor devil's advocate. Thanks again for sharing your observations. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC www.biofuels.coop From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Oct 5 16:58:33 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Oct 5 15:58:23 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] TexCom to Build New Biodiesel Plant in Seabrook, TX Message-ID: <2858A5C7-9FA4-4F35-83F3-8B79DA17CED1@blast.com> INDUSTRY REPORT --------------- TexCom to Build New Biodiesel Plant in Seabrook, TX TexCom, Inc. recently announced it has signed a letter of intent with LBC Houston, LP to build and operate a new biodiesel plant in Seabrook, TX. According to TexCom, the facility will produce 30 million gallons of biodiesel annually, using virgin soybean oil. The plant will be located at LBC?s bulk liquids terminal, and will be designed and built by Memphis, TN-based Lurgi PSI. ?By locating our biodiesel production unit at an existing bulk terminal facility, we will be reducing our initial capital cost for the project and, at the same time, increasing our capability to serve the local fuels distribution market,? said TexCom president Louis Ross. TexCom noted that construction of the plant could begin before the end of the year, while production could start by the end of 2006. Contact: Brit Brooks, TexCom, phone 713-914-9193, website http://www.texcomresources.com. (EIN STAFF: 10/3) From mambrose at fs.fed.us Wed Oct 5 17:39:58 2005 From: mambrose at fs.fed.us (Mark Ambrose) Date: Wed Oct 5 22:51:33 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Mark's review of Pimental's talk In-Reply-To: <84a57a420510051238n2003f316uefd160ee78617645@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: John -- Good point. We do need more research into other oil seed crops. But your comment does remind me of one other item from Pimentel's talk that suggests soybeans for biodiesel as a good choice. In his critique of ethanol, he argued that others overvalued the by-products of ethanol production because the corn residue was not a particularly good choice for livestock feed. He argued that livestock do much better with a food supplement of soybean meal. Well, a high-protein soy meal is what is left after extracting soybean oil! Because this by-product is a relatively high-value feed, more of the inputs of growing the soy can be allocated to it and there is somewhat less of a trade-off between land-for-food and land-for-fuel than with some other crops. (Of course, animal production (esp. beef) is not a particularly efficient use of land to produce protein. [That's why I'm mostly a vegetarian] But so long as we are a nation of meat-eaters, it is important to consider the value of that soy meal to farmers/ranchers). I don't know what value the residue from other oil seed crops has for livestock feed (or something else). But the relative value of the by-products must be considered. The high protein content of soy makes it hard to beat in terms of the value of the by-product. But, of course, the high protein, is a trade-off that comes with lower oil yield compared with other seeds. ************************************************************ Mark J. Ambrose North Carolina State University Dept. of Forestry & Environmental Resources USDA FS Forest Health Monitoring Program (919) 549-4078 FAX: (919) 549-4047 mambrose@fs.fed.us ************************************************************ John Bonitz To Sent by: mambrose@alumni.princeton.edu, BIG biofuels_interest sts.emji.net cc Subject 10/05/2005 03:38 [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Mark's PM review of Pimental's talk Please respond to John Bonitz Wow, Mark, Thanks for the beefy review of Pimental's talk. It's very helpful. I especially appreciate you taking the time to dig out something meaningful from what sounds like a very frustrating talk to sit through. My only comment on your observations is to dispute the conclusion in your second to last sentence: "Combine that with the fact that soy requires no N fertilizer (less pollution in run-off) and that diesel engines are more efficient at converting the chemical energy in the fuel to mechanical energy than gasoline engines, and I would conclude that it makes sense to devote a limited land base for biofuels production to soy for diesel rather than corn for ethanol." In my view the more sensible choice would be for America to devote some amount of agricultural production to oilseed crops OTHER than soy. Canola and mustard and some other oilseed varieties appear to have the potential of even lesser environmental impact than soy. I'm interested in seeing more oil per acre, less petro-chemical inputs required, more valuable side-products, and less vulnerability to the rusts and blights which could prove devastating to soy. I'm no agronomist, but I know enough to observe that there is insufficient research into these alternatives to soy. That's one reason why we at Piedmont Biofuels Cooperative have been experimenting with oilseed crops. http://www.biofuels.coop/newsblog/archives/2005/08/post.html It's a very compelling area of discussion, which makes me sad that Piemental was such a poor devil's advocate. Thanks again for sharing your observations. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC www.biofuels.coop _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 08:11:20 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Thu Oct 6 07:11:21 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fuel drum pump/filter questions Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510060411i5c1b4250te9af6c0155770f4e@mail.gmail.com> I picked up two 55 gal metal drums yesterday. They formerly held Isopropyl alchohol and appear to be spotless inside. I'm ready to order the drum pump from Northern Tool but I have a question concerning which filter I should buy. Do I buy the "standard" goldenrod fuel filter or the "water block"? Lastly do I need a special fitting for the air-inlet side of the drum to dry the air or if the tank is stored in a garage is there no concern over drying the air that enters the tank? Thanks for everyone's patience with my questions as I tool up. -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From john.bonitz at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 13:40:12 2005 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Thu Oct 6 14:44:18 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] if you have a sec, please call Etheridge about the energy bill Message-ID: <84a57a420510060940q3796a94evdd2a335a1bc367bf@mail.gmail.com> Hello folks, If you have a second, please give a call to Bob Etheridge and ask him to vote against the energy bill tomorrow. It is chock-full of the same-old subsidies for big oil, and it does nothing for current high prices, renewables, nor conservation. Congressman Bob Etheridge's phone: 202-225-4531 He needs to hear from us! More details follow. Thanks, -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC **************************************** Dear Friends, Gas prices are off the charts. Many Americans are already saving up for what could be the most expensive winter ever for home heating. But, Tom DeLay and his friends in Washington aren't working hard to protect American families from high gas prices or solve one of the biggest crises facing middle-class families. Instead, they're working to make sure their big donors in the oil industry?who gave more than $20 million to Republicans for the 2004 elections?get even more taxpayer handouts.1 Just days after Hurricane Katrina, DeLay told reporters that he was already working on a new energy plan?one that would loosen environmental protections for oil refineries and power plants and give new tax breaks to oil and gas companies.2 DeLay used Katrina to push through things he couldn't get into his first energy plan instead of working to address the real energy problem?our dependence on oil. Tomorrow, our representatives will vote on this plan?and it's expected to be an incredibly close vote. Our allies at environmental groups have told us that your representative, Rep. Etheridge will be key. Can you call Rep. Etheridge and ask him to vote against the energy bill tomorrow? Congressman Bobby Etheridge Phone: 202-225-4531 When you call, you can tell the staffer who answers something like the following, but it's always best to speak from the heart: "Hi, my name is [YOUR NAME] and I'm from [YOUR TOWN]. I strongly urge Rep. Etheridge to vote against the energy bill tomorrow. I am paying through the nose for gas. I think it's time we started looking to a clean energy future, not more giveaways to Tom DeLay's donors in the oil industry." Then, please report your call by clicking here: http://political.moveon.org/call?tg=FHNC_02&cp_id=105&id=6088-5780383-FlvYhEah53AIvOtAF7pA4Q&t=2 Here are some of the worst provisions of the new energy package: * Weakens penalties for price gouging on gas: The new plan weakens the Federal Trade Commission Act by limiting penalties for price gouging to $11,000 per day. This means that if an oil company were found to be guilty of price gouging, it would only owe $11,000 per day, even if the profits it made by price gouging far exceeded that.3 * Includes new giveaways for the oil industry: Even as major oil companies like ExxonMobil report record profits, the new plan contains potentially unlimited taxpayer subsidies for oil companies. These subsidies won't lower gas prices, they'll just line the pockets of Tom DeLay's oil executive donors.4 * Increases air pollution: Rolls back many of the Clean Air Act's most important protections, allowing more than 20,000 industrial facilities, including power plants, chemical plants, and oil refineries to increase air pollution without installing modern pollution controls.5 * Opens the Puget Sound to tankers: Undoes a 28-year-old law that limits tanker traffic in the sensitive waters of Puget Sound, placing it at greater risk for oil spills.6 Republicans in Congress are telling us that we need to cut vital services like Medicare to pay for Hurricane Katrina. But at the same time, they're offering bills like this one, which give billions to their oil company donors. It's important for us to call their bluff. Washington is gearing up for a big fight over our energy policy. It is vitally important that your representative know where you stand on this issue. Republicans are already trying to cut deals that would allow for drilling in coastal communities that have long been off-limits.7 Will you make a call today? Congressman Bobby Etheridge Phone: 202-225-4531 If Congress wants to solve our gas and energy crisis, they need to work toward a real solution that is based on alternative energy sources, conservation and higher fuel efficiency standards. We need solutions that address our long-term crisis?not more handouts for DeLay's cronies in big oil companies. Thanks for all you do, ?Eli, Nita, Rosalyn, Adam and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team Thursday, October 6th, 2005 Sources: 1 Open Secrets: Oil & Gas: Long-Term Contribution Trends http://opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=E01 2 Capitalizing on Katrina, Salon.com, September 17, 2005 http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/09/17/muckraker/ 3 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 4 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 5 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 6 House bill threatens Sound with oil tankers, Seattle Post Intelligencer, October 5, 2005 http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/243443_joel05.html 7 Gov. Bush reverses on Gulf drilling, Orlando Sentinel, October 5, 2005 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=965 Support our member-driven organization: MoveOn.org Political Action is entirely funded by our 3.3 million members. We have no corporate contributors, no foundation grants, no money from unions, no major donors program. And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. If you'd like to support our work, you can give now at: http://www.moveonpac.org/donate/email.html?id=6088-5780383-FlvYhEah53AIvOtAF7pA4Q&t=3 PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. From chris at witzgall.org Thu Oct 6 16:21:44 2005 From: chris at witzgall.org (Chris Witzgall) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:21:49 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] if you have a sec, please call Etheridge about the energy bill In-Reply-To: <84a57a420510060940q3796a94evdd2a335a1bc367bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051006192146.C2540D2584@mail2.blast.com> Done. Chris -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of John Bonitz Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:40 PM To: BIG; chatcit Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] if you have a sec, please call Etheridge about the energy bill Hello folks, If you have a second, please give a call to Bob Etheridge and ask him to vote against the energy bill tomorrow. It is chock-full of the same-old subsidies for big oil, and it does nothing for current high prices, renewables, nor conservation. Congressman Bob Etheridge's phone: 202-225-4531 He needs to hear from us! More details follow. Thanks, -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC **************************************** Dear Friends, Gas prices are off the charts. Many Americans are already saving up for what could be the most expensive winter ever for home heating. But, Tom DeLay and his friends in Washington aren't working hard to protect American families from high gas prices or solve one of the biggest crises facing middle-class families. Instead, they're working to make sure their big donors in the oil industry-who gave more than $20 million to Republicans for the 2004 elections-get even more taxpayer handouts.1 Just days after Hurricane Katrina, DeLay told reporters that he was already working on a new energy plan-one that would loosen environmental protections for oil refineries and power plants and give new tax breaks to oil and gas companies.2 DeLay used Katrina to push through things he couldn't get into his first energy plan instead of working to address the real energy problem-our dependence on oil. Tomorrow, our representatives will vote on this plan-and it's expected to be an incredibly close vote. Our allies at environmental groups have told us that your representative, Rep. Etheridge will be key. Can you call Rep. Etheridge and ask him to vote against the energy bill tomorrow? Congressman Bobby Etheridge Phone: 202-225-4531 When you call, you can tell the staffer who answers something like the following, but it's always best to speak from the heart: "Hi, my name is [YOUR NAME] and I'm from [YOUR TOWN]. I strongly urge Rep. Etheridge to vote against the energy bill tomorrow. I am paying through the nose for gas. I think it's time we started looking to a clean energy future, not more giveaways to Tom DeLay's donors in the oil industry." Then, please report your call by clicking here: http://political.moveon.org/call?tg=FHNC_02&cp_id=105&id=6088-5780383-FlvYhE ah53AIvOtAF7pA4Q&t=2 Here are some of the worst provisions of the new energy package: * Weakens penalties for price gouging on gas: The new plan weakens the Federal Trade Commission Act by limiting penalties for price gouging to $11,000 per day. This means that if an oil company were found to be guilty of price gouging, it would only owe $11,000 per day, even if the profits it made by price gouging far exceeded that.3 * Includes new giveaways for the oil industry: Even as major oil companies like ExxonMobil report record profits, the new plan contains potentially unlimited taxpayer subsidies for oil companies. These subsidies won't lower gas prices, they'll just line the pockets of Tom DeLay's oil executive donors.4 * Increases air pollution: Rolls back many of the Clean Air Act's most important protections, allowing more than 20,000 industrial facilities, including power plants, chemical plants, and oil refineries to increase air pollution without installing modern pollution controls.5 * Opens the Puget Sound to tankers: Undoes a 28-year-old law that limits tanker traffic in the sensitive waters of Puget Sound, placing it at greater risk for oil spills.6 Republicans in Congress are telling us that we need to cut vital services like Medicare to pay for Hurricane Katrina. But at the same time, they're offering bills like this one, which give billions to their oil company donors. It's important for us to call their bluff. Washington is gearing up for a big fight over our energy policy. It is vitally important that your representative know where you stand on this issue. Republicans are already trying to cut deals that would allow for drilling in coastal communities that have long been off-limits.7 Will you make a call today? Congressman Bobby Etheridge Phone: 202-225-4531 If Congress wants to solve our gas and energy crisis, they need to work toward a real solution that is based on alternative energy sources, conservation and higher fuel efficiency standards. We need solutions that address our long-term crisis-not more handouts for DeLay's cronies in big oil companies. Thanks for all you do, -Eli, Nita, Rosalyn, Adam and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team Thursday, October 6th, 2005 Sources: 1 Open Secrets: Oil & Gas: Long-Term Contribution Trends http://opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=E01 2 Capitalizing on Katrina, Salon.com, September 17, 2005 http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/09/17/muckraker/ 3 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 4 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 5 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 6 House bill threatens Sound with oil tankers, Seattle Post Intelligencer, October 5, 2005 http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/243443_joel05.html 7 Gov. Bush reverses on Gulf drilling, Orlando Sentinel, October 5, 2005 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=965 Support our member-driven organization: MoveOn.org Political Action is entirely funded by our 3.3 million members. We have no corporate contributors, no foundation grants, no money from unions, no major donors program. And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. If you'd like to support our work, you can give now at: http://www.moveonpac.org/donate/email.html?id=6088-5780383-FlvYhEah53AIvOtAF 7pA4Q&t=3 PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. From chris at witzgall.org Thu Oct 6 16:26:26 2005 From: chris at witzgall.org (Chris Witzgall) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:26:31 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel powered Motorcycle In-Reply-To: <84a57a420510060940q3796a94evdd2a335a1bc367bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051006192628.23B4F744EB@mail2.blast.com> HDT is getting ready to release their diesel powered motorcycle to the public. I have been watching this company for some time. The bike has been supplied solely to the military for a few years, but they have announced that it will be made available, as a street legal bike, in March 2006. 102MPG!! Runs on biodiesel! For the non-motoheads out there, this is essentially a Kawasaki KLR650, a dual-sport bike that has been around since the stone age, fitted with a diesel engine. How does a range of 600 miles sound? http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com Chris From david.berglund at sailstarusa.com Thu Oct 6 16:48:44 2005 From: david.berglund at sailstarusa.com (David Berglund) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:51:05 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] if you have a sec, please callEtheridge about the energy bill In-Reply-To: <20051006192146.C2540D2584@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: Done. -David -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net]On Behalf Of Chris Witzgall Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:22 PM To: 'John Bonitz'; 'BIG'; 'chatcit' Subject: RE: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] if you have a sec, please callEtheridge about the energy bill Done. Chris -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of John Bonitz Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:40 PM To: BIG; chatcit Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] if you have a sec, please call Etheridge about the energy bill Hello folks, If you have a second, please give a call to Bob Etheridge and ask him to vote against the energy bill tomorrow. It is chock-full of the same-old subsidies for big oil, and it does nothing for current high prices, renewables, nor conservation. Congressman Bob Etheridge's phone: 202-225-4531 He needs to hear from us! More details follow. Thanks, -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC **************************************** Dear Friends, Gas prices are off the charts. Many Americans are already saving up for what could be the most expensive winter ever for home heating. But, Tom DeLay and his friends in Washington aren't working hard to protect American families from high gas prices or solve one of the biggest crises facing middle-class families. Instead, they're working to make sure their big donors in the oil industry-who gave more than $20 million to Republicans for the 2004 elections-get even more taxpayer handouts.1 Just days after Hurricane Katrina, DeLay told reporters that he was already working on a new energy plan-one that would loosen environmental protections for oil refineries and power plants and give new tax breaks to oil and gas companies.2 DeLay used Katrina to push through things he couldn't get into his first energy plan instead of working to address the real energy problem-our dependence on oil. Tomorrow, our representatives will vote on this plan-and it's expected to be an incredibly close vote. Our allies at environmental groups have told us that your representative, Rep. Etheridge will be key. Can you call Rep. Etheridge and ask him to vote against the energy bill tomorrow? Congressman Bobby Etheridge Phone: 202-225-4531 When you call, you can tell the staffer who answers something like the following, but it's always best to speak from the heart: "Hi, my name is [YOUR NAME] and I'm from [YOUR TOWN]. I strongly urge Rep. Etheridge to vote against the energy bill tomorrow. I am paying through the nose for gas. I think it's time we started looking to a clean energy future, not more giveaways to Tom DeLay's donors in the oil industry." Then, please report your call by clicking here: http://political.moveon.org/call?tg=FHNC_02&cp_id=105&id=6088-5780383-FlvYhE ah53AIvOtAF7pA4Q&t=2 Here are some of the worst provisions of the new energy package: * Weakens penalties for price gouging on gas: The new plan weakens the Federal Trade Commission Act by limiting penalties for price gouging to $11,000 per day. This means that if an oil company were found to be guilty of price gouging, it would only owe $11,000 per day, even if the profits it made by price gouging far exceeded that.3 * Includes new giveaways for the oil industry: Even as major oil companies like ExxonMobil report record profits, the new plan contains potentially unlimited taxpayer subsidies for oil companies. These subsidies won't lower gas prices, they'll just line the pockets of Tom DeLay's oil executive donors.4 * Increases air pollution: Rolls back many of the Clean Air Act's most important protections, allowing more than 20,000 industrial facilities, including power plants, chemical plants, and oil refineries to increase air pollution without installing modern pollution controls.5 * Opens the Puget Sound to tankers: Undoes a 28-year-old law that limits tanker traffic in the sensitive waters of Puget Sound, placing it at greater risk for oil spills.6 Republicans in Congress are telling us that we need to cut vital services like Medicare to pay for Hurricane Katrina. But at the same time, they're offering bills like this one, which give billions to their oil company donors. It's important for us to call their bluff. Washington is gearing up for a big fight over our energy policy. It is vitally important that your representative know where you stand on this issue. Republicans are already trying to cut deals that would allow for drilling in coastal communities that have long been off-limits.7 Will you make a call today? Congressman Bobby Etheridge Phone: 202-225-4531 If Congress wants to solve our gas and energy crisis, they need to work toward a real solution that is based on alternative energy sources, conservation and higher fuel efficiency standards. We need solutions that address our long-term crisis-not more handouts for DeLay's cronies in big oil companies. Thanks for all you do, -Eli, Nita, Rosalyn, Adam and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team Thursday, October 6th, 2005 Sources: 1 Open Secrets: Oil & Gas: Long-Term Contribution Trends http://opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=E01 2 Capitalizing on Katrina, Salon.com, September 17, 2005 http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/09/17/muckraker/ 3 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 4 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 5 Dissenting Views of Democratic Members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce on H.R. 3893 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=964 6 House bill threatens Sound with oil tankers, Seattle Post Intelligencer, October 5, 2005 http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/243443_joel05.html 7 Gov. Bush reverses on Gulf drilling, Orlando Sentinel, October 5, 2005 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=965 Support our member-driven organization: MoveOn.org Political Action is entirely funded by our 3.3 million members. We have no corporate contributors, no foundation grants, no money from unions, no major donors program. And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. If you'd like to support our work, you can give now at: http://www.moveonpac.org/donate/email.html?id=6088-5780383-FlvYhEah53AIvOtAF 7pA4Q&t=3 PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From biodiesel at yovo.info Fri Oct 7 14:35:15 2005 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Fri Oct 7 13:35:36 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Purchase Methanol in Triangle? In-Reply-To: <4e961f6b0510050911h39c36616g876a2c1f99821cf3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4e961f6b0510050650l6d642470y14c0d66826c279fb@mail.gmail.com> <1693.152.1.149.176.1128520897.squirrel@webmail.ncsu.edu> <4e961f6b0510050911h39c36616g876a2c1f99821cf3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4346B1D3.2090409@yovo.info> Richard, Tim, Marc Dreyfors of Carolina Biodiesel (marc@theforestfoundation.org) can hook you up with a guy who is willing to fill 5 gal carboys (or more) with methanol. Cheers, Jurgen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jurgen Henn biodiesel@yovo.info +01 919-423-3861 http://words.yovo.info/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Richard Carpenter Photography wrote: > I called these folks at Brenntag Southeast Inc. > Here's the breakdown on methanol sales > > They only sell to businesses (I have a busines so that's not a problem). But... > > Buyer must commit to minimum $2000/year in orders > > Prices are as follows 55gal drums tech grade methanol: > > Order: > 1-3 drums $3.19/gal > 4-9 drums $2.78/gal > cheaper as you go up obviously. > > For each order there is a $37.50 fuel surcharge plus a $25 LAS (insurance) fee. > > I don't think I'd personally have cause to meet the minimum $2000/yr > order so unless people across combine orders this wouldn't work. > > They also won't deliver to a residence. I have a truck and a trailer > so that's not a big problem, but it might be for others. > > They also said they are no longer selling KOH. > > Any other places where individuals might be able to buy one or two > drums at a time? Or other locations for KOH in bulk? > > -Richard- > > On 10/5/05, Tim Turner wrote: > >>Richard, >>Try >> >>Brenntag Southeast Inc >>2000 E Pettigrew St >>Durham, NC 27703-4049 >>Phone: (919) 596-0681 >> >>They sell and deliver 55 gallon drums. I also bought 100 lb KOH from >>them, I think. >>Tim >> >> >>>Ok, I'm stumped. After moving beyond a blender batch using HEET where >>>do I purchase methanol in quantity. I've called the local racing >>>shops and googled/citysearched etc. I can't find a place in the >>>Raleigh NC area that sells methanol. >>> >>>Where oh where ? >>> >>>-Richard- >>>-- >>>http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>>Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >> >> >>-- >>Tim Turner >>Graduate Student >>Department of Mechanical Engineering >>NC State University >>919 280 7663 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > > > > -- > http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From daproducts at wave-net.net Sat Oct 8 22:22:44 2005 From: daproducts at wave-net.net (Ashley Silva) Date: Sat Oct 8 21:22:47 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Purchase Methanol in Triangle? References: <4e961f6b0510050650l6d642470y14c0d66826c279fb@mail.gmail.com> <1693.152.1.149.176.1128520897.squirrel@webmail.ncsu.edu> <4e961f6b0510050911h39c36616g876a2c1f99821cf3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004101c5cc6f$f37f9cb0$0201a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> For methanol, P&P Speed Shop has 55 gallons for $137.50 - $25.00 drum deposit if you don't have your own drum. 919-575-4626. Carochem, Markham Ave. Durham - has KOH @ $211.00 for 100# drum and NaOH @ $85.00 for 50 # bag. 919-682-5121. Ashley Silva. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Carpenter Photography" To: "Tim Turner" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Purchase Methanol in Triangle? I called these folks at Brenntag Southeast Inc. Here's the breakdown on methanol sales They only sell to businesses (I have a busines so that's not a problem). But... Buyer must commit to minimum $2000/year in orders Prices are as follows 55gal drums tech grade methanol: Order: 1-3 drums $3.19/gal 4-9 drums $2.78/gal cheaper as you go up obviously. For each order there is a $37.50 fuel surcharge plus a $25 LAS (insurance) fee. I don't think I'd personally have cause to meet the minimum $2000/yr order so unless people across combine orders this wouldn't work. They also won't deliver to a residence. I have a truck and a trailer so that's not a big problem, but it might be for others. They also said they are no longer selling KOH. Any other places where individuals might be able to buy one or two drums at a time? Or other locations for KOH in bulk? -Richard- On 10/5/05, Tim Turner wrote: > Richard, > Try > > Brenntag Southeast Inc > 2000 E Pettigrew St > Durham, NC 27703-4049 > Phone: (919) 596-0681 > > They sell and deliver 55 gallon drums. I also bought 100 lb KOH from > them, I think. > Tim > > > Ok, I'm stumped. After moving beyond a blender batch using HEET where > > do I purchase methanol in quantity. I've called the local racing > > shops and googled/citysearched etc. I can't find a place in the > > Raleigh NC area that sells methanol. > > > > Where oh where ? > > > > -Richard- > > -- > > http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > -- > Tim Turner > Graduate Student > Department of Mechanical Engineering > NC State University > 919 280 7663 > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From vidrinmr at wfu.edu Mon Oct 10 14:44:54 2005 From: vidrinmr at wfu.edu (Robert Vidrine) Date: Mon Oct 10 13:44:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pollack fuel switch valve question. Message-ID: <434AA896.4030608@wfu.edu> Greetings all, I have an '85 MB 300D which is converted to run on SVO, but I would very much like to substitute Biodiesel for Petrodiesel for startup/purge. The guy who did the conversion said that the Pollack brand fuel switching valve (solenoid?) is incompatible with BioD, and would leak unless I switched to a brass valve. Can someone corroborate this, and if this is true, can anyone give me an idea of the tolerance of this part? (In other words, can I run a blend of a certain percentage and be OK?) Also, the Pollack part seems to be a standard item in these conversions, so if this is true, does anyone know where I could get a brass replacement? Thanks much, Robert From Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com Mon Oct 10 18:08:22 2005 From: Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com (Long, Patrick) Date: Mon Oct 10 17:08:48 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pollack fuel switch valve question. Message-ID: <05EA7F4ED0E67C4F8651D90A7FA0E8CF01EAA241@SUSMNREX001.colfaxpumpgroup.com> Robert I'm not sure if anyone has replied to this question yet. What you are asking is one of the Pandora's boxes of questions. What you, and I, and all of us here are, are pioneers. We are the ones who are going to figure out how to get vehicles to run on what no car manufacturer (or solenoid manufacture) will be willing to offer a warranty to. So "we" (that's all of us) are trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work, for how long and for what price range. With that said, from my understanding bio-diesel (B100) reacts poorly with copper and its alloys (brass and bronze). So you really are looking for components made of aluminum and stainless steel...also natural rubbers are going to start chemically breaking down over time, with higher blends (you might want to look at replacing all of your tank o-rings and fuel line with a viton plastic). But, you are also going to need to look at your budget...stainless steel and viton are expensive. You might start asking yourself how long you plan to own this car (most components on a car are designed to last 10 years...your car is twice this old). I have 10,000 miles on a MB300TD running B100 and SVO. I'm using Pollack solenoids, and currently they are operating fine. I have heard of these solenoids failing (all mechanical things at some point are guaranteed do this). Of all the components to fail first in my fuel delivery system, I expect it will be the solenoids. When will that be? Maybe tomorrow...maybe next year. Your best bet is to buy a solenoid with stainless steel components (at least the one's that come in contact with fuel). These are not cheep and at some point in time they too will fail (because of wearing parts). So then you've got yourself a basis of comparison maybe 2 Pollack solenoids for every Stainless Steel one. If the stainless steel one costs you 4 times as much as one Pollack...what do you choose? And welcome to the box. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Robert Vidrine Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:45 PM To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pollack fuel switch valve question. Greetings all, I have an '85 MB 300D which is converted to run on SVO, but I would very much like to substitute Biodiesel for Petrodiesel for startup/purge. The guy who did the conversion said that the Pollack brand fuel switching valve (solenoid?) is incompatible with BioD, and would leak unless I switched to a brass valve. Can someone corroborate this, and if this is true, can anyone give me an idea of the tolerance of this part? (In other words, can I run a blend of a certain percentage and be OK?) Also, the Pollack part seems to be a standard item in these conversions, so if this is true, does anyone know where I could get a brass replacement? Thanks much, Robert _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group ----------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is intended even if addressed incorrectly. Please delete it from your files if you are not the intended recipient. Thank you for your compliance. From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Oct 11 00:20:36 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Mon Oct 10 23:20:19 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: biodiesel job opening References: <20051002170052.95405.qmail@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: Frankie Lind > Date: October 2, 2005 1:00:52 PM EDT > To: leif@biofuels.coop, rachel@biofuels.coop > Subject: biodiesel job opening > > > Hi Leif and Rachel! > > Can you think of anyone that would be interested in a > full-time paid job saving the planet with biodiesel? > In DC? Keep up the good work in NC! > > Frankie (804.363.5563) > > > >>> >>> > Pogoil Job Description: Biodiesel Production Associate > > Farm operation in central Maryland seeks biodiesel > production associate to help with low-tech biodiesel > ?refinery.? > > Pogoil is a farm-brew biodiesel refinery, creating > cleaner-burning American biodiesel fuel for use on the > premises in large diesel-powered equipment. We create > quality biodiesel fuel from used frying oil collected > from local restaurants. > > The Biodiesel Production Associate?s primary > responsibility will be supporting the refinery > operator with a combination of duties: coordinating > vegetable oil sourcing and collection; providing > technical and labor support for operating the > refinery; communicating our message and needs to our > restaurant partners and other interested parties; and > helping ensure the safety, efficiency and > effectiveness of this exciting project. Opportunities > exist to expand our involvement with vegetable oil > fuels in other directions as well. > > Experience with biofuels is valued but not required. > Ideal candidate is familiar with vegetable oil fuels; > handy with tools and equipment; humble enough to pump > used frying oil from barrels; experienced in customer > service and enthusiastic about biofuels. > > Full time position starts immediately and requires at > least one year commitment. Compensation is $15/hr > negotiable. Location is 45 minutes from DC or > Baltimore. > > To apply call Frankie Lind at 804.363.5563 or email > frankielind@yahoo.com. > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > From john.bonitz at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 07:50:10 2005 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Tue Oct 11 09:50:12 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging story Message-ID: <84a57a420510110650m44b5202br38ccaab020a9f9ec@mail.gmail.com> State suing distributor of gasoline Durham County store resists pressure to make rates leap Steve Grover considered it price-fixing. By ANNE BLYTHE, Staff Writer http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2814596p-9260538c.html DURHAM -- Steve Grover prides himself on keeping gas at his rural minimart pumps below $3 per gallon despite the higher prices all around him. Grover, a co-owner of the A&P Mini Mart off Interstate 85, saw too many people having to choose between basic necessities or pumping enough gas for the work commute. So when his gasoline wholesaler tried to force him to charge more at the pump, Grover cried price-fixing. Now a powerful ally is echoing his complaint. N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper filed suit against fuel distributors McLeod Oil Co. and Home Oil of Mebane, their owner Wesley Mehring of Burlington and any unknown co-conspirators, accusing them of trying to coerce the minimart co-owner to raise his gas prices. The lawsuit is the first in the state to allege price gouging in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. "It's absolutely outrageous what happened in this case," Cooper said Monday. The complaint dates back to Sept. 28, when Grover and his wife, Denise, were finishing up for the day and heading out to Wednesday church services in Mebane. The couple had spent most of that day at their convenience store at 1709 Glenn School Road near the I-85 interchange. As they were leaving, Grover said, they encountered two representatives from McLeod, the company that fills and owns the three tanks at their store. The distributor had filled the tanks two days earlier, he said. But they were back insisting that the Grovers raise the pump price by 40 cents a gallon -- to $3.26. Grover balked. He had seen the "margin sheets" that showed the customer price and the store's profits. For September, according to the margin sheet, Grover could buy his regular gasoline for $2.825 a gallon. He was obligated to sell gas at his pumps for no less than $2.869 per gallon. Of that 4.4-cent profit, Grover would get 2.2 cents and the distributor would take the other 2.2 cents. But if Grover chose to charge $2.979 per gallon of regular unleaded gas, that 11-cent increase over the lowest allowed price would give the minimart a profit of 7.7 more cents a gallon, and the distributor 7.7 more cents a gallon. "The higher I go, the more money they make," Grover said. Told to raise prices On that Wednesday in September, McLeod distributors told him to raise his prices. Grover said he asked for a margin sheet so he could show his customers where their money was going. He had been posting the information on his cash register since Hurricane Katrina, when gas prices spiked. "McLeod did not like it at all that I put them out there for the public. Neither did the competitors around here," Grover said. "They said, 'Y'all ought to get with the program.' " Grover said the McLeod distributors refused to give him a margin sheet, so he refused to raise his prices. He and his wife left for church. While the Grovers were away, he said, McLeod representatives padlocked the tanks. Neither Mehring nor David Permar, a company spokesman, could be reached for comment Monday. At a news conference Monday afternoon, Cooper spoke about the difficulties of proving price-fixing. The state must show collusion with either witness testimony or circumstantial evidence. "Clearly in this case there had been some talk among retailers about the prices," Cooper said. "In fact, in this case, the retailer was told, 'You better get with the program.' I'm going to find out what 'the program' is and take action against anyone who's clearly involved." By filing a lawsuit, Cooper can subpoena people and demand testimony. On Saturday, the day after the suit was filed, McLeod representatives unlocked the pumps at A&P Mini Mart. Grover said he felt like dancing, but he didn't. "You've got to try and be a gentleman, no matter how mad you get," Grover said. On Monday, he was a hero among his customers. Not only was he selling regular unleaded gas for $2.81 a gallon, he was the little guy who took a stand. "He's an honest person," said Joanne Leverette, 49, of Butner. "We're glad to have people like him in the world." Staff writer Anne Blythe can be reached at 932-8741 or ablythe@newsobserver.com. From tomjarrett at alumni.unc.edu Tue Oct 11 13:27:16 2005 From: tomjarrett at alumni.unc.edu (thomas m. jarrett) Date: Tue Oct 11 12:27:25 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Organic Standards Under Fire In-Reply-To: <84a57a420510060940q3796a94evdd2a335a1bc367bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a57a420510060940q3796a94evdd2a335a1bc367bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <434BE7E4.80604@alumni.unc.edu> Folks please have a look at http://www.organicconsumers.org/sos.cfm. The Organic Consumers Association (OCA) needs your immediate help to stop Congress and the Bush administration from seriously degrading organic standards. After 35 years of hard work, the U.S. organic community has built up a multi-billion dollar alternative to industrial agriculture, based upon strict organic standards and organic community control over modification to these standards. Now, large corporations such as Kraft & Dean Foods--aided and abetted by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), are moving to lower organic standards by allowing a Bush appointee to create a list of synthetic ingredients that would be allowed organic production. Even worse these proposed regulatory changes will reduce future public discussion and input and take away the National Organic Standards Board's (NOSB) traditional lead jurisdiction in setting standards. What this means, in blunt terms. is that USDA bureaucrats and industry lobbyists, not consumers, will now have more control over what can go into organic foods and products. From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Oct 11 15:28:49 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Oct 11 14:28:29 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] ADM Announces Plans to Build Biodiesel Facility Message-ID: <814AD020-AFC3-4EF5-B0AD-017140A2B86C@blast.com> INDUSTRY REPORT --------------- ADM Announces Plans to Build Biodiesel Facility Archer Daniels Midland Company (ADM) recently announced plans to build its first wholly owned biodiesel production facility in the U.S. According to ADM, the 50-million-gallon facility will be located in Velva, ND, near the existing ADM crushing facility, and will use canola oil as its primary feedstock. ADM said the construction completion date will be dependent on final engineering and permit approval. Contact: ADM, website http://www.admworld.com . (EIN STAFF: 10/4) From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Oct 11 15:30:17 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Oct 11 14:29:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] NC State receives funding for Glycerol research Message-ID: USDA Awards $12.6 Million for Biomass Research & Development U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) secretary Mike Johanns announced late last week that 11 biomass research, development and demonstration projects have been selected to receive $12.6 million for the Biomass Research and Development Initiative, a joint effort of USDA and the Department of Energy (DOE). Johanns noted that the total value of the projects is nearly $19 million, including cost sharing of the private-sector partners. "This cooperative conservation partnership benefits our nation with enhanced energy security, a cleaner environment and revitalized rural economies," said Johanns. "The selected projects support President Bush's goal to enhance renewable energy supplies. The grants will help to develop additional renewable energy resources and expand markets for agricultural products." The 11 selected projects include the University of Idaho's "Increasing the Potential for the Utilization of Cellulose From Straw for Biofuel and Bioproduct Production," the Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation Inc.'s "Development of Low-lignin Switchgrass for Improved Ethanol Production," the Tampa Bay Area Ethanol Consortium's "Implementation of a Scale-up Pilot Plant Demonstration Facility Toward the Commercialization of Florida Biomass Feedstocks for Ethanol Production," the University of Montana, College of Technology's "Biopower Demonstration and Educational Outreach," the North Carolina State University, Department of Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering's "Conversion of Biodiesel Derived Glycerol to Glycidol, Glycerol Carbonate and C-3 Oxygenates by Catalytic and Biocatalytic Pathways," Iowa State University's "Environmental Enhancement Through Corn Stover Utilization," Oak Ridge National Laboratory's "Carbon Fiber From Biomass Lignins," Clarkson University's "Environmental and Economic Performance of an Integrated, Digester-Cogeneration-Value-Added Process," the University of Minnesota, Morris' "Biomass Gasification: A Comprehensive Demonstration of a Community-scale Biomass Energy System," the University of Florida's "Bioenergy: Optimum Incentives and Sustainability of Non-industrial Private Forests in the U.S. South" and the Environmental Resources Trust's "Incentives for Biomass Commercialization: Pioneering Markets for Biomass Using Renewable Energy Certificates, Emission Reduction Credits and Incentive Programs for Ammonia, PM10 and PM2.4 Reductions." Additional information on each project can be found online at http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov. Contact: Ed Loyd, USDA, phone 202-720-4623. (EIN STAFF: 10/6) From wrenchwench at blast.com Tue Oct 11 15:40:30 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Tue Oct 11 14:40:13 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Transfer of Technology from Cambridge University for Building Mobile Refineries to Convert Rape-Seed Oil into Bio-Diesel Message-ID: UTEK Corporation Completes Technology Transfer with Kwikpower International for Mobile Bio-Diesel Refineries Transfer of Technology from Cambridge University for Building Mobile Refineries to Convert Rape-Seed Oil into Bio-Diesel LONDON & PLANT CITY, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 10, 2005-- Kwikpower International plc, a diversified renewable energy and fuels company offering 'carbon recycling' solutions, and UTEK Corporation (AMEX:UTK - News; LSE-AIM:UTKA), an innovative technology transfer company, announced today the completion of a technology transfer to Kwikpower International in a securities exchange transaction. The technology transferred contained the license to a process enabling the continuous conversion for onward sale of plant-based oils into bio-diesel using a mobile refinery. This system uses a tubular oscillatory flow reactor and was demonstrated for the first time at the Clean Energy Technology Show in London earlier this year. Conventional bio-diesel plants require the use of large tanks which must be emptied and cleaned after each batch. A substantial potential market for bio-diesel has been created by the European Directive 2003/30/EU which sets a target that, by the end of 2005, 2% of all road transport should be powered by bio-fuels, aiming for 5.75% by 2010. The UK government provides a rebate of 20p ($0.35) on the duty of every liter of bio-diesel. The technology was developed by Professor Malcolm Mackley and his team in the Department of Chemical Engineering at the University of Cambridge and is being licensed by Cambridge Enterprise on behalf of the University. Dr. Jim Watkins, CEO and Chairman of Kwikpower International said: "This technology transfer of the bio-diesel intensification process with Cambridge and UTEK will allow us to rapidly expand Kwikpower's opportunities in the bio-fuels markets. We see major growth opportunities in both the USA and Europe." He added: "Our KP Wellman engineering subsidiary is already working on integrating the new reactor design into an innovative continuous production module which will fit into a 40 foot container. This technology offers real promise to allow us to reduce the time and cost of production of bio-diesel from a variety of feedstocks, allowing bio-diesel to compete on a level playing field with crude oil derived diesel." Dr. Clifford M. Gross, CEO and Chairman of UTEK said: "We are very pleased to have completed our first technology transfer to a UK based company since UTEK's admission to AIM in April this year. It demonstrates that our U2B technology transfer model works well on both sides of the Atlantic and can be used by UK companies to develop their product portfolios with university discoveries." Terms of the Transaction Biodiesel Technologies, Inc. ("BTI"), a company established by UTEK specifically for this transaction and which holds the technology rights being transferred, has been acquired by Kwikpower International plc in a securities exchange in which Kwikpower International plc issued a GBP 1.25 million (US $2,217,627) convertible debenture to UTEK Corporation in exchange for 100% of the issued and outstanding shares of BTI. The transaction closed on September 30, 2005. About Kwikpower International plc Kwikpower is a diversified renewable energy and fuels company offering 'Carbon Recycling' solutions through its engineering division, KP Wellman, and KP Renewables plc, its AIM quoted renewable energy subsidiary. Kwikpower utilizes proprietary technology for recycling carbon waste streams into clean burning renewable fuels or energy. The Kwikpower Group has a turnover of more than US$80.0 million (on an annualized basis) and employs around 280 people. About Cambridge Enterprise Cambridge Enterprise facilitates the commercial development of University of Cambridge's intellectual property. Specialist technology transfer staff manage all aspects of patents, copyright and contractual arrangements. Cambridge Enterprise licenses patents and other intellectual property to existing companies, both large and small, as well as to spinouts formed to exploit University technology. Working together with venture capital funds, Cambridge Enterprise forms around five new companies each year. During 2004 the University applied for 61 patents based on 141 invention disclosures, while a total of 41 new licenses and other commercial agreements were completed. Income from patent and software licenses exceeded GBP 2m, and demand for academics' technical advice added a further GBP 1.8 million of revenue. 2004 saw the launch of five new University spin-out companies, and the University invested a total of GBP 800,000 in ventures formed by staff and students. Cambridge Enterprise is at http://www.enterprise.cam.ac.uk/. About UTEK Corporation UTEK? is a leading, market-driven technology transfer company that enables companies to rapidly acquire innovative technologies from universities and research laboratories worldwide. UTEK facilitates the identification and then finances the acquisition of external technologies for clients in exchange for their equity securities. This unique process is called U2B?. In addition to its U2B? service, UTEK offers both large and small capitalization companies the tools to search, analyze and manage university intellectual properties. UTEK has operations in the United States, United Kingdom and Israel. For more information about UTEK, please visit its website at http:// www.UTEKcorp.com. Forward-Looking Statements Certain matters discussed in this press release are "forward-looking statements." These forward-looking statements can generally be identified as such because the context of the statement will include words, such as UTEK or Kwikpower International plc or KP Renewables plc "expects," "should," "believes," "anticipates" or words of similar import. Similarly, statements that describe UTEK's or Kwikpower International plc or KP Renewables plc's future plans, objectives or goals are also forward-looking statements. Such forward- looking statements are subject to certain risks and uncertainties, including the financial performance of UTEK or Kwikpower International plc or KP Renewables plc, as appropriate, and the valuation of UTEK's investment portfolio, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those currently anticipated. Although UTEK and Kwikpower International plc or KP Renewables plc believe the expectations reflected in any forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, they cannot give any assurance that their expectations will be attained. Shareholders, potential investors and other readers are urged to consider these factors carefully in evaluating any forward-looking statements. Certain factors could cause results and conditions to differ materially from those projected in these forward-looking statements and some of these factors are discussed below. These factors are not exhaustive. New factors, risks and uncertainties may emerge from time to time that may affect the forward-looking statements made herein. These forward- looking statements are only made as of the date of this press release and both UTEK and Kwikpower International plc or KP Renewables plc do not undertake any obligation to publicly update such forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances. UTEK's operating results could fluctuate significantly due to a number of factors. These factors include the small number of transactions that are completed each quarter, the value of individual transactions, the timing of the recognition and the magnitude of unrealized gains and losses, UTEK's dependence on the performance of companies in its portfolio, the possibility that advances in technology could render the technologies it has transferred obsolete, the loss of technology licenses by companies in its portfolio, the degree to which it encounters competition in its markets, the volatility of the stock market and the volatility of the valuations of the companies it has invested in as it relates to its realized and unrealized gains and losses, the concentration of investments in a small number of companies, as well as other general economic conditions. As a result of these and other factors, current results may not be indicative of UTEK's future performance. For more information on UTEK and for a more complete discussion of the risks pertaining to an investment in UTEK, please refer to UTEK's filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Contact: Kwikpower International plc / KP Renewables plc Dr. Jim Watkins, +44 (0)208-899-6140 or Cambridge Enterprise Karen Dean, +44 (0)1223-765542 or UTEK Corporation, Plant City (USA) Nicole Tyson, 813-754-4330, ext 231 or Bankside Consultants (UK) Steve Liebmann or Susan Scott +44 (0)20-7367-8883 / 07802-888159 From tbb10785 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 11 20:22:59 2005 From: tbb10785 at hotmail.com (Bruce Brown) Date: Tue Oct 11 15:23:02 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Organic Standards Under Fire In-Reply-To: <434BE7E4.80604@alumni.unc.edu> Message-ID: Take a look at this article http://www.newfarm.org/depts/nf_classics/0604/logsdon.shtml I have to agree with the author Gene Logsdon, if the goverment is involved it's always going to be screwed up. Similar to how the big soy bean growers group have already locked up bio-diesel government supply contracts in North Carolina (like the of city of Greenboro), even through soy beans aren't the most effiencient seed for producing bio-diesel. Same old, same old. Those with the dollars usually win. >From: "thomas m. jarrett" >To: BIG >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Organic Standards Under Fire >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:27:16 -0400 > >Folks please have a look at http://www.organicconsumers.org/sos.cfm. > >The Organic Consumers Association (OCA) needs your immediate help to stop >Congress and the Bush administration from seriously degrading organic >standards. After 35 years of hard work, the U.S. organic community has >built up a multi-billion dollar alternative to industrial agriculture, >based upon strict organic standards and organic community control over >modification to these standards. > >Now, large corporations such as Kraft & Dean Foods--aided and abetted by >the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), are moving to lower organic >standards by allowing a Bush appointee to create a list of synthetic >ingredients that would be allowed organic production. Even worse these >proposed regulatory changes will reduce future public discussion and input >and take away the National Organic Standards Board's (NOSB) traditional >lead jurisdiction in setting standards. What this means, in blunt terms. is >that USDA bureaucrats and industry lobbyists, not consumers, will now have >more control over what can go into organic foods and products. > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From cbutler at alltel.net Tue Oct 11 18:11:52 2005 From: cbutler at alltel.net (butler) Date: Tue Oct 11 17:11:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Message-ID: <000701c5cea8$6755c8f0$6401a8c0@youro0kwkw9jwc> Connie M. Butler, CPC Score Counselor From vidrinmr at wfu.edu Tue Oct 11 18:40:45 2005 From: vidrinmr at wfu.edu (Robert Vidrine) Date: Tue Oct 11 17:40:45 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pollack fuel switch valve question. In-Reply-To: <05EA7F4ED0E67C4F8651D90A7FA0E8CF01EAA241@SUSMNREX001.colfaxpumpgroup.com> References: <05EA7F4ED0E67C4F8651D90A7FA0E8CF01EAA241@SUSMNREX001.colfaxpumpgroup.com> Message-ID: <434C315D.6090606@wfu.edu> Thanks very much Patrick! This is a wise and reasoned reply. I really don't know much about the Pollack solenoid in my system (I opted to have someone else design and install my SVO conversion), but hadn't heard a lot about these failing under B100 use, so wanted to do some fact-checking. I suppose that similar to fuel filters (I carry a replacement of each in my car), I should expect that I might have to replace the Pollack solenoid at some point, and that it will be hard to determine when that will be. Does anyone else have an opinion to weigh in? Know of stainless-steel fuel switching solenoids to use as a comparison? Thanks! Robert On 10/10/2005 5:08 PM, Long, Patrick wrote: > Robert > > I'm not sure if anyone has replied to this question yet. What you are asking > is one of the Pandora's boxes of questions. What you, and I, and all of us > here are, are pioneers. We are the ones who are going to figure out how to > get vehicles to run on what no car manufacturer (or solenoid manufacture) > will be willing to offer a warranty to. So "we" (that's all of us) are > trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work, for how long and for > what price range. > > With that said, from my understanding bio-diesel (B100) reacts poorly with > copper and its alloys (brass and bronze). So you really are looking for > components made of aluminum and stainless steel...also natural rubbers are > going to start chemically breaking down over time, with higher blends (you > might want to look at replacing all of your tank o-rings and fuel line with > a viton plastic). But, you are also going to need to look at your > budget...stainless steel and viton are expensive. You might start asking > yourself how long you plan to own this car (most components on a car are > designed to last 10 years...your car is twice this old). > > I have 10,000 miles on a MB300TD running B100 and SVO. I'm using Pollack > solenoids, and currently they are operating fine. I have heard of these > solenoids failing (all mechanical things at some point are guaranteed do > this). Of all the components to fail first in my fuel delivery system, I > expect it will be the solenoids. When will that be? Maybe tomorrow...maybe > next year. Your best bet is to buy a solenoid with stainless steel > components (at least the one's that come in contact with fuel). These are > not cheep and at some point in time they too will fail (because of wearing > parts). So then you've got yourself a basis of comparison maybe 2 Pollack > solenoids for every Stainless Steel one. If the stainless steel one costs > you 4 times as much as one Pollack...what do you choose? > > And welcome to the box. > > Patrick > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net > [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Robert > Vidrine > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:45 PM > To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Pollack fuel switch valve question. > > Greetings all, > > I have an '85 MB 300D which is converted to run on SVO, but I would very > much like to substitute Biodiesel for Petrodiesel for startup/purge. The > guy who did the conversion said that the Pollack brand fuel switching > valve (solenoid?) is incompatible with BioD, and would leak unless I > switched to a brass valve. > Can someone corroborate this, and if this is true, can anyone give me an > idea of the tolerance of this part? (In other words, can I run a blend > of a certain percentage and be OK?) > > Also, the Pollack part seems to be a standard item in these conversions, > so if this is true, does anyone know where I could get a brass replacement? > > Thanks much, > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > ----------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please > immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This e-mail > transmission may contain confidential information. This information is > intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is > intended even if addressed incorrectly. Please delete it from your files > if you are not the intended recipient. Thank you for your compliance. > > > From natureinspiredhuman at yahoo.com Tue Oct 11 21:13:57 2005 From: natureinspiredhuman at yahoo.com (David Prins) Date: Tue Oct 11 23:13:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Diesel powered Motorcycle In-Reply-To: <20051006192628.23B4F744EB@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <20051012031357.9962.qmail@web61119.mail.yahoo.com> This is great. Thanks Chris for the heads up. For clairification, I was just on the site and the US model (Bulldog) will begin production in march, 2006...that may mean a slightly longer wait for sales release. David Prins --- Chris Witzgall wrote: > > HDT is getting ready to release their diesel powered > motorcycle to the > public. I have been watching this company for some > time. The bike has been > supplied solely to the military for a few years, but > they have announced > that it will be made available, as a street legal > bike, in March 2006. > 102MPG!! Runs on biodiesel! > > For the non-motoheads out there, this is essentially > a Kawasaki KLR650, a > dual-sport bike that has been around since the stone > age, fitted with a > diesel engine. How does a range of 600 miles sound? > > http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From natureinspiredhuman at yahoo.com Tue Oct 11 21:24:52 2005 From: natureinspiredhuman at yahoo.com (David Prins) Date: Tue Oct 11 23:24:50 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging story In-Reply-To: <84a57a420510110650m44b5202br38ccaab020a9f9ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> Way to go! --- John Bonitz wrote: > State suing distributor of gasoline > Durham County store resists pressure to make rates > leap > Steve Grover considered it price-fixing. > > By ANNE BLYTHE, Staff Writer > http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2814596p-9260538c.html > > DURHAM -- Steve Grover prides himself on keeping gas > at his rural > minimart pumps below $3 per gallon despite the > higher prices all > around him. > > Grover, a co-owner of the A&P Mini Mart off > Interstate 85, saw too > many people having to choose between basic > necessities or pumping > enough gas for the work commute. So when his > gasoline wholesaler tried > to force him to charge more at the pump, Grover > cried price-fixing. > > Now a powerful ally is echoing his complaint. > > N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper filed suit against > fuel distributors > McLeod Oil Co. and Home Oil of Mebane, their owner > Wesley Mehring of > Burlington and any unknown co-conspirators, accusing > them of trying to > coerce the minimart co-owner to raise his gas > prices. > > The lawsuit is the first in the state to allege > price gouging in the > aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. > > "It's absolutely outrageous what happened in this > case," Cooper said Monday. > > The complaint dates back to Sept. 28, when Grover > and his wife, > Denise, were finishing up for the day and heading > out to Wednesday > church services in Mebane. > > The couple had spent most of that day at their > convenience store at > 1709 Glenn School Road near the I-85 interchange. As > they were > leaving, Grover said, they encountered two > representatives from > McLeod, the company that fills and owns the three > tanks at their > store. > > The distributor had filled the tanks two days > earlier, he said. But > they were back insisting that the Grovers raise the > pump price by 40 > cents a gallon -- to $3.26. > > Grover balked. He had seen the "margin sheets" that > showed the > customer price and the store's profits. For > September, according to > the margin sheet, Grover could buy his regular > gasoline for $2.825 a > gallon. He was obligated to sell gas at his pumps > for no less than > $2.869 per gallon. Of that 4.4-cent profit, Grover > would get 2.2 cents > and the distributor would take the other 2.2 cents. > > But if Grover chose to charge $2.979 per gallon of > regular unleaded > gas, that 11-cent increase over the lowest allowed > price would give > the minimart a profit of 7.7 more cents a gallon, > and the distributor > 7.7 more cents a gallon. > > "The higher I go, the more money they make," Grover > said. > > Told to raise prices > > On that Wednesday in September, McLeod distributors > told him to raise > his prices. Grover said he asked for a margin sheet > so he could show > his customers where their money was going. He had > been posting the > information on his cash register since Hurricane > Katrina, when gas > prices spiked. > > "McLeod did not like it at all that I put them out > there for the > public. Neither did the competitors around here," > Grover said. "They > said, 'Y'all ought to get with the program.' " > > Grover said the McLeod distributors refused to give > him a margin > sheet, so he refused to raise his prices. He and his > wife left for > church. > > While the Grovers were away, he said, McLeod > representatives padlocked > the tanks. > > Neither Mehring nor David Permar, a company > spokesman, could be > reached for comment Monday. > > At a news conference Monday afternoon, Cooper spoke > about the > difficulties of proving price-fixing. The state must > show collusion > with either witness testimony or circumstantial > evidence. > > "Clearly in this case there had been some talk among > retailers about > the prices," Cooper said. "In fact, in this case, > the retailer was > told, 'You better get with the program.' I'm going > to find out what > 'the program' is and take action against anyone > who's clearly > involved." > > By filing a lawsuit, Cooper can subpoena people and > demand testimony. > > On Saturday, the day after the suit was filed, > McLeod representatives > unlocked the pumps at A&P Mini Mart. Grover said he > felt like dancing, > but he didn't. > > "You've got to try and be a gentleman, no matter how > mad you get," Grover said. > > On Monday, he was a hero among his customers. Not > only was he selling > regular unleaded gas for $2.81 a gallon, he was the > little guy who > took a stand. > > "He's an honest person," said Joanne Leverette, 49, > of Butner. "We're > glad to have people like him in the world." > > Staff writer Anne Blythe can be reached at 932-8741 > or ablythe@newsobserver.com. > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From bknighton at nc.rr.com Wed Oct 12 14:02:57 2005 From: bknighton at nc.rr.com (Bill Knighton) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:08:20 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging story In-Reply-To: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> I don't see why this is a good thing. Anything that raises the price of gas makes fuel efficient cars more attractive. Additionally, I like the idea of people who drive having to pay more since nearly every one of them is getting obscenely poor mileage. Also, why is it good for government to control the price of fuel? Should they be controlling the price or quality of what you do for a living too? If this is good then maybe you'd like it if the co op and industrial were also price controlled. I wouldn't. Since the fuel company owned the fuel and the equipment I'd say it's their right to decide what to charge. It seems like during this time period fuel was hard to come by. My local station had none to sell. If the oil company has a limited quantity then it's logical for them to charge more per gallon since they are moving fewer gallons. Charging more also causes some conservation on the customer's part. But here's this guy selling gas 40 cents less then market price. He was making 2 cents/gallon profit. The fuel distributor making 2 cents also. Why should they splurge that limited resource for 2 cents/gallon at a time when everyone should be conserving? The gas station owner is making a bunch of money selling gas at fire sale prices not on the gas, but on people buying snacks, coke and other useless overpriced, over packaged, health deteriorating convenience store garbage. I say this with sarcasm, but why not have an investigation on the price of gas station garbage-food? Let's limit this gas station owner so that he can only mark up his junk by 2 cents/item. All of the sudden a can a beans will cost about 50 cents and then he'll be only too happy to charge more for gas. David Prins wrote: >Way to go! > > >--- John Bonitz wrote: > > > >>State suing distributor of gasoline >>Durham County store resists pressure to make rates >>leap >>Steve Grover considered it price-fixing. >> >>By ANNE BLYTHE, Staff Writer >> >> >> >http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2814596p-9260538c.html > > >>DURHAM -- Steve Grover prides himself on keeping gas >>at his rural >>minimart pumps below $3 per gallon despite the >>higher prices all >>around him. >> >>Grover, a co-owner of the A&P Mini Mart off >>Interstate 85, saw too >>many people having to choose between basic >>necessities or pumping >>enough gas for the work commute. So when his >>gasoline wholesaler tried >>to force him to charge more at the pump, Grover >>cried price-fixing. >> >>Now a powerful ally is echoing his complaint. >> >>N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper filed suit against >>fuel distributors >>McLeod Oil Co. and Home Oil of Mebane, their owner >>Wesley Mehring of >>Burlington and any unknown co-conspirators, accusing >>them of trying to >>coerce the minimart co-owner to raise his gas >>prices. >> >>The lawsuit is the first in the state to allege >>price gouging in the >>aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. >> >>"It's absolutely outrageous what happened in this >>case," Cooper said Monday. >> >>The complaint dates back to Sept. 28, when Grover >>and his wife, >>Denise, were finishing up for the day and heading >>out to Wednesday >>church services in Mebane. >> >>The couple had spent most of that day at their >>convenience store at >>1709 Glenn School Road near the I-85 interchange. As >>they were >>leaving, Grover said, they encountered two >>representatives from >>McLeod, the company that fills and owns the three >>tanks at their >>store. >> >>The distributor had filled the tanks two days >>earlier, he said. But >>they were back insisting that the Grovers raise the >>pump price by 40 >>cents a gallon -- to $3.26. >> >>Grover balked. He had seen the "margin sheets" that >>showed the >>customer price and the store's profits. For >>September, according to >>the margin sheet, Grover could buy his regular >>gasoline for $2.825 a >>gallon. He was obligated to sell gas at his pumps >>for no less than >>$2.869 per gallon. Of that 4.4-cent profit, Grover >>would get 2.2 cents >>and the distributor would take the other 2.2 cents. >> >>But if Grover chose to charge $2.979 per gallon of >>regular unleaded >>gas, that 11-cent increase over the lowest allowed >>price would give >>the minimart a profit of 7.7 more cents a gallon, >>and the distributor >>7.7 more cents a gallon. >> >>"The higher I go, the more money they make," Grover >>said. >> >>Told to raise prices >> >>On that Wednesday in September, McLeod distributors >>told him to raise >>his prices. Grover said he asked for a margin sheet >>so he could show >>his customers where their money was going. He had >>been posting the >>information on his cash register since Hurricane >>Katrina, when gas >>prices spiked. >> >>"McLeod did not like it at all that I put them out >>there for the >>public. Neither did the competitors around here," >>Grover said. "They >>said, 'Y'all ought to get with the program.' " >> >>Grover said the McLeod distributors refused to give >>him a margin >>sheet, so he refused to raise his prices. He and his >>wife left for >>church. >> >>While the Grovers were away, he said, McLeod >>representatives padlocked >>the tanks. >> >>Neither Mehring nor David Permar, a company >>spokesman, could be >>reached for comment Monday. >> >>At a news conference Monday afternoon, Cooper spoke >>about the >>difficulties of proving price-fixing. The state must >>show collusion >>with either witness testimony or circumstantial >>evidence. >> >>"Clearly in this case there had been some talk among >>retailers about >>the prices," Cooper said. "In fact, in this case, >>the retailer was >>told, 'You better get with the program.' I'm going >>to find out what >>'the program' is and take action against anyone >>who's clearly >>involved." >> >>By filing a lawsuit, Cooper can subpoena people and >>demand testimony. >> >>On Saturday, the day after the suit was filed, >>McLeod representatives >>unlocked the pumps at A&P Mini Mart. Grover said he >>felt like dancing, >>but he didn't. >> >>"You've got to try and be a gentleman, no matter how >>mad you get," Grover said. >> >>On Monday, he was a hero among his customers. Not >>only was he selling >>regular unleaded gas for $2.81 a gallon, he was the >>little guy who >>took a stand. >> >>"He's an honest person," said Joanne Leverette, 49, >>of Butner. "We're >>glad to have people like him in the world." >> >>Staff writer Anne Blythe can be reached at 932-8741 >>or ablythe@newsobserver.com. >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> >> >> >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > From symon at safenet-inc.com Wed Oct 12 15:25:33 2005 From: symon at safenet-inc.com (Jim Symon) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:26:24 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging - or not Message-ID: <434D551D.6040708@safenet-inc.com> And another way to look at it: As a station owner I am going along just making a living at current profit levels. Suddenly I am faced with shortly having no gas to sell so no customers coming in. I will have no income. If I raise my prices now, maybe I can salt away enough to get me through the lean times around the corner. I face a serious risk. A risk analysis could give me a current cost of risk to add to my other costs of doing business. Now I have to raise my prices just to maintain the current profit level above the new cost structure. Anyway, metoo on high gas prices being a good thing. Symon The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. From hogarth at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 15:30:30 2005 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:30:31 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging - or not In-Reply-To: <434D551D.6040708@safenet-inc.com> References: <434D551D.6040708@safenet-inc.com> Message-ID: <3889aa560510121130o757935e4l1528da5903709c42@mail.gmail.com> John Stossel writes in praise of "price gouging": http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/JohnStossel/2005/09/07/155361.html "If you want to score points cracking down on mean, greedy profiteers, pushing anti-"gouging" rules is a very good thing. But if you're one of the people the law "protects" from "price gouging," you won't fare as well." On 10/12/05, Jim Symon wrote: > > And another way to look at it: As a station owner I am going along just > making a living at current profit levels. Suddenly I am faced with > shortly having no gas to sell so no customers coming in. I will have no > income. If I raise my prices now, maybe I can salt away enough to get me > through the lean times around the corner. > > I face a serious risk. A risk analysis could give me a current cost of > risk to add to my other costs of doing business. Now I have to raise my > prices just to maintain the current profit level above the new cost > structure. > > Anyway, metoo on high gas prices being a good thing. > > Symon > > > The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > -- Susan Hogarth | hogarth@gmail.com "When the will to power is in charge, the higher the ideals, the lower the results." - Lao Tzu www.wakelp.org | www.colliething.com From biodiesel at yovo.info Wed Oct 12 15:52:19 2005 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Wed Oct 12 14:52:41 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging story In-Reply-To: <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> References: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> Message-ID: <434D5B63.7040809@yovo.info> Price gouging on Mars bars has less of an impact on people's lives than price-gouging on fuel. I am all for higher gas prices, but that money should support the development of alternatives to the petro-fueled economy, not finance the golf vacation of some oil-executive (or gas-station owner). The economic impact of unstable fuel prices is too significant to ignore. If the inability of the oil industry to secure its infrastructure results in fuel shortage there should be NEGATIVE consequences for the INDUSTRY. Instead it is rewarded in the form of increased profits (and tax breaks) and working Americans have to bear the burden. Jurgen Bill Knighton wrote: > I don't see why this is a good thing. Anything that raises the price of > gas makes fuel efficient cars more attractive. Additionally, I like the > idea of people who drive having to pay more since nearly every one of > them is getting obscenely poor mileage. > Also, why is it good for government to control the price of fuel? > Should they be controlling the price or quality of what you do for a > living too? > If this is good then maybe you'd like it if the co op and industrial > were also price controlled. I wouldn't. > Since the fuel company owned the fuel and the equipment I'd say it's > their right to decide what to charge. It seems like during this time > period fuel was hard to come by. My local station had none to sell. If > the oil company has a limited quantity then it's logical for them to > charge more per gallon since they are moving fewer gallons. Charging > more also causes some conservation on the customer's part. But here's > this guy selling gas 40 cents less then market price. He was making 2 > cents/gallon profit. The fuel distributor making 2 cents also. Why > should they splurge that limited resource for 2 cents/gallon at a time > when everyone should be conserving? The gas station owner is making a > bunch of money selling gas at fire sale prices not on the gas, but on > people buying snacks, coke and other useless overpriced, over packaged, > health deteriorating convenience store garbage. I say this with > sarcasm, but why not have an investigation on the price of gas station > garbage-food? Let's limit this gas station owner so that he can only > mark up his junk by 2 cents/item. All of the sudden a can a beans will > cost about 50 cents and then he'll be only too happy to charge more for > gas. > > From bknighton at nc.rr.com Wed Oct 12 16:25:59 2005 From: bknighton at nc.rr.com (bill) Date: Wed Oct 12 15:25:27 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging story In-Reply-To: <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> References: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> Message-ID: <200510121525.59561.bknighton@nc.rr.com> In case anyone thought I was in a hostile rant it was not in that tone. Maybe I should use emoticons. On Wednesday 12 October 2005 1:02 pm, Bill Knighton wrote: > I don't see why this is a good thing. Anything that raises the price of > gas makes fuel efficient cars more attractive. Additionally, I like the > idea of people who drive having to pay more since nearly every one of > them is getting obscenely poor mileage. > Also, why is it good for government to control the price of fuel? > Should they be controlling the price or quality of what you do for a > living too? > If this is good then maybe you'd like it if the co op and industrial > were also price controlled. I wouldn't. > Since the fuel company owned the fuel and the equipment I'd say it's > their right to decide what to charge. It seems like during this time > period fuel was hard to come by. My local station had none to sell. If > the oil company has a limited quantity then it's logical for them to > charge more per gallon since they are moving fewer gallons. Charging > more also causes some conservation on the customer's part. But here's > this guy selling gas 40 cents less then market price. He was making 2 > cents/gallon profit. The fuel distributor making 2 cents also. Why > should they splurge that limited resource for 2 cents/gallon at a time > when everyone should be conserving? The gas station owner is making a > bunch of money selling gas at fire sale prices not on the gas, but on > people buying snacks, coke and other useless overpriced, over packaged, > health deteriorating convenience store garbage. > I say this with sarcasm, but why not have an investigation on the > price of gas station garbage-food? Let's limit this gas station owner > so that he can only mark up his junk by 2 cents/item. All of the > sudden a can a beans will cost about 50 cents and then he'll be only too > happy to charge more for gas. > > David Prins wrote: > >Way to go! > > > >--- John Bonitz wrote: > >>State suing distributor of gasoline > >>Durham County store resists pressure to make rates > >>leap > >>Steve Grover considered it price-fixing. > >> > >>By ANNE BLYTHE, Staff Writer > > > >http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2814596p-9260538c.html > > > >>DURHAM -- Steve Grover prides himself on keeping gas > >>at his rural > >>minimart pumps below $3 per gallon despite the > >>higher prices all > >>around him. > >> > >>Grover, a co-owner of the A&P Mini Mart off > >>Interstate 85, saw too > >>many people having to choose between basic > >>necessities or pumping > >>enough gas for the work commute. So when his > >>gasoline wholesaler tried > >>to force him to charge more at the pump, Grover > >>cried price-fixing. > >> > >>Now a powerful ally is echoing his complaint. > >> > >>N.C. Attorney General Roy Cooper filed suit against > >>fuel distributors > >>McLeod Oil Co. and Home Oil of Mebane, their owner > >>Wesley Mehring of > >>Burlington and any unknown co-conspirators, accusing > >>them of trying to > >>coerce the minimart co-owner to raise his gas > >>prices. > >> > >>The lawsuit is the first in the state to allege > >>price gouging in the > >>aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. > >> > >>"It's absolutely outrageous what happened in this > >>case," Cooper said Monday. > >> > >>The complaint dates back to Sept. 28, when Grover > >>and his wife, > >>Denise, were finishing up for the day and heading > >>out to Wednesday > >>church services in Mebane. > >> > >>The couple had spent most of that day at their > >>convenience store at > >>1709 Glenn School Road near the I-85 interchange. As > >>they were > >>leaving, Grover said, they encountered two > >>representatives from > >>McLeod, the company that fills and owns the three > >>tanks at their > >>store. > >> > >>The distributor had filled the tanks two days > >>earlier, he said. But > >>they were back insisting that the Grovers raise the > >>pump price by 40 > >>cents a gallon -- to $3.26. > >> > >>Grover balked. He had seen the "margin sheets" that > >>showed the > >>customer price and the store's profits. For > >>September, according to > >>the margin sheet, Grover could buy his regular > >>gasoline for $2.825 a > >>gallon. He was obligated to sell gas at his pumps > >>for no less than > >>$2.869 per gallon. Of that 4.4-cent profit, Grover > >>would get 2.2 cents > >>and the distributor would take the other 2.2 cents. > >> > >>But if Grover chose to charge $2.979 per gallon of > >>regular unleaded > >>gas, that 11-cent increase over the lowest allowed > >>price would give > >>the minimart a profit of 7.7 more cents a gallon, > >>and the distributor > >>7.7 more cents a gallon. > >> > >>"The higher I go, the more money they make," Grover > >>said. > >> > >>Told to raise prices > >> > >>On that Wednesday in September, McLeod distributors > >>told him to raise > >>his prices. Grover said he asked for a margin sheet > >>so he could show > >>his customers where their money was going. He had > >>been posting the > >>information on his cash register since Hurricane > >>Katrina, when gas > >>prices spiked. > >> > >>"McLeod did not like it at all that I put them out > >>there for the > >>public. Neither did the competitors around here," > >>Grover said. "They > >>said, 'Y'all ought to get with the program.' " > >> > >>Grover said the McLeod distributors refused to give > >>him a margin > >>sheet, so he refused to raise his prices. He and his > >>wife left for > >>church. > >> > >>While the Grovers were away, he said, McLeod > >>representatives padlocked > >>the tanks. > >> > >>Neither Mehring nor David Permar, a company > >>spokesman, could be > >>reached for comment Monday. > >> > >>At a news conference Monday afternoon, Cooper spoke > >>about the > >>difficulties of proving price-fixing. The state must > >>show collusion > >>with either witness testimony or circumstantial > >>evidence. > >> > >>"Clearly in this case there had been some talk among > >>retailers about > >>the prices," Cooper said. "In fact, in this case, > >>the retailer was > >>told, 'You better get with the program.' I'm going > >>to find out what > >>'the program' is and take action against anyone > >>who's clearly > >>involved." > >> > >>By filing a lawsuit, Cooper can subpoena people and > >>demand testimony. > >> > >>On Saturday, the day after the suit was filed, > >>McLeod representatives > >>unlocked the pumps at A&P Mini Mart. Grover said he > >>felt like dancing, > >>but he didn't. > >> > >>"You've got to try and be a gentleman, no matter how > >>mad you get," Grover said. > >> > >>On Monday, he was a hero among his customers. Not > >>only was he selling > >>regular unleaded gas for $2.81 a gallon, he was the > >>little guy who > >>took a stand. > >> > >>"He's an honest person," said Joanne Leverette, 49, > >>of Butner. "We're > >>glad to have people like him in the world." > >> > >>Staff writer Anne Blythe can be reached at 932-8741 > >>or ablythe@newsobserver.com. > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >>Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > > > >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From newobjects at nc.rr.com Wed Oct 12 17:47:16 2005 From: newobjects at nc.rr.com (Toby Sarver) Date: Wed Oct 12 16:47:18 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Changing habits (was "petroleum price gouging story") In-Reply-To: <434D5B63.7040809@yovo.info> References: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> <434D5B63.7040809@yovo.info> Message-ID: <434D7654.5030205@nc.rr.com> Folks, I don't want to go too far into the political discussion because there are plenty of boards for discussing that. However, I would like to agree with Bill K. because I think that higher fuel prices cause people to look for alternative ways to accomplish their goals, or eliminate some things that are not worth the higher price tag. One of the studies that has been done this year (I'm sorry I don't have the reference) shows that people haven't really changed the amount of gasoline they buy even though prices have gone from $2.30/gal to $3.30/gal in a very short time. What this suggests to me is that it takes time for people to change their habits, vehicle, or mode of transportation. It takes even longer to make a change when talking about non-transportation energy usage. Can you imagine putting in a new furnace because the price of natural gas has gone up? You're talking thousands of dollars to replace something that works perfectly well. Many of the people with whom I work have voiced their concerns about gas prices, and that they plan to either buy a different vehicle or car-pool more often. Now, maybe I'm getting a self-selecting sample of the population because I have told everyone I know that I'm working on biodiesel and SVO for my F250. Or maybe people in general are thinking of ways that they can reduce their energy bills. I think this is a very good thing. The impact of Hurricane Katrina on our economy has been relatively slight, (i.e., non-disruptive) but I think it has raised awareness in the public at large about the role that energy plays in their lives, and how our dependence on foreign oil is a vulnerability to our economy. When people wake up and realize that they can't get energy (in their preferred form) at any price, there's going to be panic. The people who realize the inevitability of the situation are able to change their condition, to some extent, in order to be less vulnerable. I'm not speaking "doom and gloom"; I'm suggesting a rational response to an inevitable event: This world will run out of fossil fuels. The question is how tumultuous and disruptive will be the transition from our current infrastructure, which is very dependent on fossil fuels, to one that is not. Unfortunately, people have the expectation that the new infrastructure will be just as convenient as the current one. Fossil fuels are very dense, easy-to-manipulate forms of energy. I suspect that their replacement will not be so convenient. Lyle likes to say that making biodiesel is like heating with wood (except for the methanox, I think its more like doing the laundry :-). I believe the times when we can flip a switch without thinking about the systems required to bring about the desired effect will be in the past. Brazil learned its lesson from the 1970's OPEC crisis. Much of their energy comes from sugar cane. I'm hoping we (in the U.S.) collectively learn the same lesson in time to avert the looming chaos. Having fun making biodiesel, --Toby Sarver Raleigh, NC newobjects@nc.rr.com Member of Piedmont Biofuels Coop Jurgen Henn wrote: > Price gouging on Mars bars has less of an impact on people's lives > than price-gouging on fuel. I am all for higher gas prices, but that > money should support the development of alternatives to the > petro-fueled economy, not finance the golf vacation of some > oil-executive (or gas-station owner). > > The economic impact of unstable fuel prices is too significant to > ignore. If the inability of the oil industry to secure its > infrastructure results in fuel shortage there should be NEGATIVE > consequences for the INDUSTRY. Instead it is rewarded in the form of > increased profits (and tax breaks) and working Americans have to bear > the burden. > > Jurgen > > > Bill Knighton wrote: > >> I don't see why this is a good thing. Anything that raises the price >> of gas makes fuel efficient cars more attractive. Additionally, I >> like the idea of people who drive having to pay more since nearly >> every one of them is getting obscenely poor mileage. >> Also, why is it good for government to control the price of fuel? >> Should they be controlling the price or quality of what you do for a >> living too? >> If this is good then maybe you'd like it if the co op and industrial >> were also price controlled. I wouldn't. >> Since the fuel company owned the fuel and the equipment I'd say it's >> their right to decide what to charge. It seems like during this time >> period fuel was hard to come by. My local station had none to sell. >> If the oil company has a limited quantity then it's logical for them >> to charge more per gallon since they are moving fewer gallons. >> Charging more also causes some conservation on the customer's part. >> But here's this guy selling gas 40 cents less then market price. He >> was making 2 cents/gallon profit. The fuel distributor making 2 >> cents also. Why should they splurge that limited resource for 2 >> cents/gallon at a time when everyone should be conserving? The gas >> station owner is making a bunch of money selling gas at fire sale >> prices not on the gas, but on people buying snacks, coke and other >> useless overpriced, over packaged, health deteriorating convenience >> store garbage. I say this with sarcasm, but why not have an >> investigation on the price of gas station garbage-food? Let's limit >> this gas station owner so that he can only mark up his junk by 2 >> cents/item. All of the sudden a can a beans will cost about 50 cents >> and then he'll be only too happy to charge more for gas. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From hogarth at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 20:13:11 2005 From: hogarth at gmail.com (Susan Hogarth) Date: Wed Oct 12 19:13:10 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging story In-Reply-To: <434D5B63.7040809@yovo.info> References: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> <434D5B63.7040809@yovo.info> Message-ID: <3889aa560510121613o100cc16ev325d2d907e677781@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/05, Jurgen Henn wrote: > ... > The economic impact of unstable fuel prices is too significant to > ignore. If the inability of the oil industry to secure its > infrastructure results in fuel shortage there should be NEGATIVE > consequences for the INDUSTRY. Instead it is rewarded in the form of > increased profits (and tax breaks) and working Americans have to bear > the burden. Seems like an entreprenurial opening to me. Someone ought to be sneaking/charging into the market with viable fuels like biodiesel and high-mileage vehicles. But, wait! The government hampers new industries by 'protecting' the consumer with a bazillion regulations to hinder the entry of new companies/technologies into the market. Seems like what they are 'protecting' is the oil industry. I'm sure I don't feel 'protected'. When the oil industry is no longer protected form the operation of the free market by regulations hampering small entrepreneurs, *then* those 'negative consequences' you mentioned will happen. Trying to pick on individual companies who are simply doing what companies try to do - profit - is the wrong strategy. FURTHER hindering of the market is not what we need - we need LESS hindering of the market. -- Susan Hogarth | hogarth@gmail.com "When the will to power is in charge, the higher the ideals, the lower the results." - Lao Tzu www.wakelp.org | www.colliething.com From biodiesel at yovo.info Wed Oct 12 21:58:09 2005 From: biodiesel at yovo.info (Jurgen Henn) Date: Wed Oct 12 20:58:30 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] petroleum price gouging story In-Reply-To: <3889aa560510121613o100cc16ev325d2d907e677781@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> <434D5B63.7040809@yovo.info> <3889aa560510121613o100cc16ev325d2d907e677781@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <434DB121.3090103@yovo.info> see comments ... Jurgen Susan Hogarth wrote: > > When the oil industry is no longer protected form the operation of the > free market by regulations hampering small entrepreneurs, *then* those > 'negative consequences' you mentioned will happen. Could not agree more ... > Trying to pick on > individual companies who are simply doing what companies try to do - > profit - is the wrong strategy. Companies engaging in criminal conspiracies to artificially inflate fuel prices is not exactly in the proper capitalist spirit. Remember, the story that started this discussion was not about government regulation, it was about an alleged criminal conspiracy. > FURTHER hindering of the market is not > what we need - we need LESS hindering of the market. I am not going to take the free market "bait" here :) this is probably a discussion for another forum ... Cheers! > > -- > Susan Hogarth | hogarth@gmail.com > "When the will to power is in charge, > the higher the ideals, the lower the results." - Lao Tzu > www.wakelp.org | www.colliething.com > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From tengu at unc.edu Wed Oct 12 20:29:08 2005 From: tengu at unc.edu (tengu) Date: Wed Oct 12 23:23:33 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Oil Storm In-Reply-To: <3889aa560510121613o100cc16ev325d2d907e677781@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051012032452.54026.qmail@web61116.mail.yahoo.com> <434D41C1.8040300@nc.rr.com> <434D5B63.7040809@yovo.info> <3889aa560510121613o100cc16ev325d2d907e677781@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <55000.24.163.40.107.1129159748.squirrel@secure.ibiblio.org> The movie deals with the impact that a Category 5 downgrading to a Category 4 hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico would have if it hit New Orleans, destroyed large numbers of offshore oil rigs in the Gulf, and crippled the primary nerve center of the Gulf Coast petroleum industry at Port Fourchon, Louisiana. It shows how the effects of that disaster could have significant consequences throughout the United States, even in areas far removed from landfall. While the loss of life and property in the storm is staggering, the greater impact is on the crippled energy industry. -from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_Storm also dig: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461695/ stay greasy, tengu --- Anarchists don't price gouge. From john.bonitz at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 22:47:24 2005 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Thu Oct 13 00:47:22 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: New Energy on Capitol Hill Message-ID: <84a57a420510122147s7acd7651nb9e4662364f233a0@mail.gmail.com> FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: The Apollo Alliance Date: Oct 12, 2005 5:37 PM Subject: New Energy on the Hill To: john.bonitz@gmail.com Dear John, As working families continue to pay $3 for a gallon of gas and brace for a spike in heating costs for the winter, the House of Representatives passed a bill that would give even more taxpayer financed subsidies to big oil companies. After Republicans extended the initial five-minute vote by an unprecedented additional forty minutes to persuade two moderate Republicans to change their votes, the bill passed 212-210-largely along party lines with twelve Republicans and one Independent voting with the unified Democratic Party against the bill. The deceptively named Gasoline for America's Security Act will do nothing to help lower record high gas prices or to relieve our perilous dependence on foreign oil. Instead, under the guise of hurricane relief, this new bill shamefully rolls back critical environmental protections, undermines state and local lawmakers, and even comes to the rescue of price gougers by limiting penalties that can be levied against those who take advantage of Americans at the pump. As the vote was being taken, the Apollo Alliance held press conference featuring, Robert L. Borosage, Apollo Alliance; Rep. Jay Inslee (D-WA), William Klinefelter, USWA; Jeff Rickert, Apollo Alliance; and Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), calling on Congress to fight back against the wrong-headed "Gasoline for America's Security Act" and call for a crash program to achieve American energy independence. Listen to the Press Conference [http://action.apolloalliance.org/ctt.asp?u=4028865&l=108135 ***Activities in Washington DC Give Us Hope of America's New Energy Future*** At the same time, there are glimmers of hope and proactive proposals gaining momentum on the Hill. Prominent figures in Washington, like Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, have called for an Apollo Project for Energy. The project echoes Apollo Alliance's call for a massive commitment to support research and development necessary to develop alternative energy sources to free us from foreign oil by 2020. Learn More About Senator Harry Reid's Plan [http://action.apolloalliance.org/ctt.asp?u=4028865&l=108143 Senator Reid joins a chorus of voices calling for proactive approaches to dealing with our perilous dependence on foreign oil. Representative Jay Inslee has proposed the New Apollo Energy Act. The act will invest in America's new energy future and reduce our dependence on foreign oil by including incentives for consumers to purchase fuel efficient vehicles. The act seeks to produce notable reductions in domestic oil consumption -- cuts of 600,000 barrels a day by 2010, 1,700,000 barrels by 2015, and 3,000,000 barrels by 2020. Learn More About the New Apollo Energy Act [http://action.apolloalliance.org/ctt.asp?u=4028865&l=108144 Senator Joe Lieberman put forward a slate of legislative solutions to our energy crisis by unveiling a plan to break America's dependence on foreign oil. Senator Lieberman proposes to push the development and marketing of hybrid technologies and alternative fuel vehicles, and providing tax credits to help American manufacturers compete in this emerging market. Learn More About Senator Lieberman's Plan [http://action.apolloalliance.org/ctt.asp?u=4028865&l=108138 Furthermore, Senator Barack Obama and Senator Richard G. Lugar are sponsoring a briefing on the future of the U.S. automotive industry in an era of historically high oil and gasoline prices. You can participate in this briefing tomorrow, Thursday, October 13th at 2:00pm EST at 902 Hart Senate Office Building. Find Out More About the Briefing [http://action.apolloalliance.org/ctt.asp?u=4028865&l=108146 Leadership on the Hill reflects what the public knows: that the time for a solution is now. A recent poll by the Democracy Corps illustrated the public's continuing support for an Apollo-like crash program to achieve energy independence. According to their poll, two of the most strongly supported policy proposals in response to Hurricane Katrina were to: 1. Take steps to reduce our dependence on oil. 2. Make a massive commitment, similar to the Apollo project that put a man on the moon, to support the research and development necessary to develop alternative energy sources to free us from dependence on foreign oil within ten years. Read the Poll [http://action.apolloalliance.org/ctt.asp?u=4028865&l=108147 In the recent cover article of The Nation, Robert L. Borosage (Apollo Alliance Steering Committee Member) calls for a "real contract with America" in which Congress unleashes new energy for America. "In contrast to the Big Oil policies of the Administration that leave us more dependent on foreign supplies, pledge to launch a concerted drive for energy independence like the one called for by the Apollo Alliance. Create new jobs by investing in efficiency and alternative energy sources, helping America capture the growing green industries of the future." Read the Article [http://action.apolloalliance.org/ctt.asp?u=4028865&l=108141 +++++++++++++++++++++++ You received this message because john.bonitz@gmail.com is a member of the mailing list originating from alerts@action.apolloalliance.org . To unsubscribe from all mailing lists originating fromalerts@action.apolloalliance.org , send an email to alerts@action.apolloalliance.org from john.bonitz@gmail.com with the word "remove" in the subject line. +++++++++++++++++++++++ -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC From panthercat at mac.com Thu Oct 13 11:04:29 2005 From: panthercat at mac.com (Carlos Thompson) Date: Thu Oct 13 12:50:28 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] http://www.dieselsecret.com ??? In-Reply-To: <84a57a420510122147s7acd7651nb9e4662364f233a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <84a57a420510122147s7acd7651nb9e4662364f233a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4456478.1129212269885.JavaMail.panthercat@mac.com> What is this? And why are they anti-BioD? Who Else is going out to the TDI meet at Umstead? http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB25&Number=1075792&page=0&fpart=1 Have a great day everyone! Carlos From forrest at truffula.net Thu Oct 13 11:08:28 2005 From: forrest at truffula.net (Forrest English) Date: Thu Oct 13 13:08:12 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] http://www.dieselsecret.com ??? In-Reply-To: <4456478.1129212269885.JavaMail.panthercat@mac.com> References: <84a57a420510122147s7acd7651nb9e4662364f233a0@mail.gmail.com> <4456478.1129212269885.JavaMail.panthercat@mac.com> Message-ID: <8d3d299555eab49d2bc073f3ce4b2308@truffula.net> Howdy, Diesel Secret is another word for Snake Oil. It's essentially thinned SVO, which people have been doing with some success (and some failure...) long before DS. Read this: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/ 9741005301 If you still want more: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc:80/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/ 1311010701?a=tpc&s=447609751&m=1311010701&f=419605551 They're anti-biodiesel because it would destroy their marketed image. Biodiesel is a widely used and tested fuel, DS is someone trying to make a quick buck. On Oct 13, 2005, at 7:04 AM, Carlos Thompson wrote: > What is this? And why are they anti-BioD? > > Who Else is going out to the TDI meet at Umstead? > http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php? > Cat=0&Board=UBB25&Number=1075792&page=0&fpart=1 > > > Have a great day everyone! > Carlos > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > -- Forrest English PGP Key: http://truffula.net/~forrest/pub.key 8EC5 F031 E8BC 1BA7 B572 5C32 BAF4 2073 F96C 06AC From john.bonitz at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 10:15:37 2005 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Fri Oct 14 12:15:37 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] awesome article about "aqueous phase" biodiesel production! Message-ID: <84a57a420510140915l3eb8df17s81714e4dd0e7efb4@mail.gmail.com> http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/06/wo/wo_060705jaffe.asp?trk=top -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC EXCERPT: Biodiesel: A New Way of Turning Plants into Fuel By Sam Jaffe June 7, 2005 Eco-dreamers have long hoped for a way to drive around without contributing to global warming, but the slow pace of progress in alternative fuel technologies has kept that vision from materializing. Now, a promising new process, designed by researchers at the University of Wisconsin and outlined in a paper that appeared in the journal Science on June 2, could be a significant step toward turning that dream into a reality. The paper details a new way to produce biodiesel fuel, which is made out of plant matter. Traditional biodiesel refining uses only the fatty acids of a plant, which typically make up less than 10 percent of the mass of dried plants. Rather than converting only the fat, this new method promises to turn all of the dried plant material, including roots, stems, leaves, and fruit, into biodiesel or heat energy. The new method is divided into four parts. First, a stream of processed biomass consisting of water and sugars is fed over a nickel-tin catalyst to strip off some of its hydrogen atoms. Then the stream is treated with acids that take out most of the water. The resulting "goo" is then transported over a solid base catalyst, which forms it into long carbon chains, called alkanes. Finally, those alkanes are run through a platinum-silica-alumina catalyst at high temperatures, while the hydrogen from the first step is fed into the reactor. The resulting liquid has almost the exact same chemical structure as traditionally refined biodiesel and burns the same way in diesel engines. And the only byproducts are water and heat. If the process can be scaled up to industrial levels, it could be a major step toward the creation of a transportation fuel that is relatively clean burning, doesn't contribute to global warming, and provides U.S. farmers with billions of dollars of new income. From alizard at ecis.com Sat Oct 15 04:16:29 2005 From: alizard at ecis.com (A.Lizard) Date: Sat Oct 15 06:16:44 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] awesome article about "aqueous phase" biodiesel production! In-Reply-To: <20051014161552.ECFDBD2229@mail2.blast.com> References: <20051014161552.ECFDBD2229@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20051015030725.04c0c1d0@mail.ecis.com> At 09:15 AM 10/14/05, you wrote: IMHO, less there than meets the eye: Using Biomass for Biodiesel http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/06/using_biomass_f.html "So far the team has managed to produce hexane (C6H14)-a lighter alkane. One of the areas of concentration of the work now is to identify catalysts and reactor designs that can produce the heavier C8-C15 alkanes from biomass reactants. The other major challenge, from a commercialization point of view, is how to extract the carbohydrates from the plant matter, and how "dirty" the stream can be. In the research, the team used a pure carbohydrate supply." =================== end quote This process appears to be at a very early lab stage. From this, I suspect that this is at minimum, 5 years and more likely, a decade from something that can be turned into a commercial process..It may even be that the process may never be commercially feasible. Or, like pyrolysis, it's a niche product that's more valuable for disposing of plant waste than for making low-cost energy. A.Lizard >From: John Bonitz >To: BIG , > Piedmont Biofuels Co-op worker members >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] > awesome article about "aqueous phase" biodiesel production! >Message-ID: <84a57a420510140915l3eb8df17s81714e4dd0e7efb4@mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Precedence: list >Message: 7 > >http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/06/wo/wo_060705jaffe.asp?trk=3D= >top > >-- >John Bonitz >Silk Hope, NC > > > >EXCERPT: > >Biodiesel: A New Way of Turning Plants into Fuel >By Sam Jaffe June 7, 2005 > >Eco-dreamers have long hoped for a way to drive around without >contributing to global warming, but the slow pace of progress in >alternative fuel technologies has kept that vision from materializing. >Now, a promising new process, designed by researchers at the >University of Wisconsin and outlined in a paper that appeared in the >journal Science on June 2, could be a significant step toward turning >that dream into a reality. > >The paper details a new way to produce biodiesel fuel, which is made >out of plant matter. Traditional biodiesel refining uses only the >fatty acids of a plant, which typically make up less than 10 percent >of the mass of dried plants. Rather than converting only the fat, this >new method promises to turn all of the dried plant material, including >roots, stems, leaves, and fruit, into biodiesel or heat energy. member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild. "The responsibility of government for the public safety is absolute and requires no mandate. It is in fact, the prime object for which governments come into existence." Winston Churchill - 9/1936 - speech to the UK Parliament Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard business Website http://www.reptilelabs.com backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard@gmail.com PGP 8.0 key available by request or keyserver. Download PGP from: http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy. Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html ***Looking for INTELLIGENT new technology public policy alternatives?*** http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/technology.html From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 11:52:42 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Mon Oct 17 10:52:44 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Blue Ridge Biofuels and ... name that smell Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510170752p326c5441r94bc9e702d71a2cf@mail.gmail.com> I was in Asheville last week and had a chance to fillup at the public B100 pump and also go see the good folks at Blue Ridge Biofuels production facility in the basement of the Mechanic building. They are undergoing some reonovations and have no doors or windows at the moment so hopefully they'll get buttoned up before it get's too cool in Asheville but they seem to be a dedicated bunch of folks. It was nice to be able to stop at a publicly available B100 pump and fillup without connecting my own battery to the pump :) Although I must admit I missed the flowers on the tank. Counting the fuel I filled up with from Piedmont biofuels coop my trip from Fuquay to Asheville, toodeling around in the mountains and pulling the camper back to Fuquay consumed about 50 gallons of B100 last week. The truck ran great although I did have a hard start one monring. I still haven't been able to quantify the B100 smell out of the Powerstroke. I don't know if the catalytic converter is changing the odor but it doesn't smell as much like cooked food as it does... a charcoal grille. We are still blending biodiesel in the Jetta so I haven't been able to do a sniff comparison between the two vehicles although the 2006 Jetta TDI definitely smells different buring petro-diesel than the F250 ever did. It's downright stinky. Since my wife calls it "peppy" I think I'll call it "Pepe Le'Pew" until we get brave enough to convert the new Jetta over to pure B100. -Richard- -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 10:07:15 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Tue Oct 18 09:07:16 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Polymerization fact or fiction? Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510180607p7f12c16dvb2fb9fa95a1f1faa@mail.gmail.com> O' Biodiesel experts, I have a technical question... Now that I'm running between an 80-90% blend in my 2005 F250 I've been reading a bit more on the message boards concerning performance of B100 in the Powerstroke 6.0L I see a number of posts concerning the effect of the 21,000 - 28,000 psi injector pressures in the Powerstroke 6.0L having the potential for polymerizing biodiesel and clogging the extremely small injection nozzle openings on the PSD6. I'm no chemist, so I wondered what makes biodiesel more suceptible to polymerization than petro-diesel? Or is this more web misinformation? Last week I pulled a camper about 500 on the interstate with the engine running at near continual boost pressures of 18-21 lbs. I was running on a self mixed B90 blend. I would think that would be the most extreme condition I could run the engine under, other than B100. Does the last 10% create the potential for polymerization? -Richard- -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From abbeymassage at hotmail.com Wed Oct 19 14:26:26 2005 From: abbeymassage at hotmail.com (abbey nicholson) Date: Wed Oct 19 09:26:28 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] looking for a car Message-ID: I am looking for a diesel so that I can start to buy biodiesel and drive with less guilt. Does anyone know anyone who is selling a car or a good place to look. The ones they are selling here in Asheville are crazy expensive for what they are. abbeymassage@hotmail.com Each moment, each breath, is the opportunity Abbey Nicholson, LMT www.rebalancingmassage.com 818-601-9859 From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Oct 19 10:29:23 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Oct 19 09:29:24 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Anyone heard of Chinese Tallow tree? References: <1129722072.133.775.m16@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <8EA410F5-C1DF-47C8-A6CC-903AF35F4056@blast.com> > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:14:12 -0500 > From: Joe Greene > Subject: 'New' Biodiesel Feed Stock > > Here is it - right under our noses. . . A 'new' prolific oilseed feed > stock source that grows > very well in the Southern U.S. and beyond. (actually a bit too well > - it > is currently considered > a plant pest. > > The potential for this plant to be part of the biodiesel future in the > U.S. is enormous... > > Just read on . . . > > Cordially - Joe Greene > > **************************************************************** > Production of Biodiesel from Lipids Extracted from Chinese Tallow > Tree., > S. Crymble1, B. Copeland1, M. Zappi1, R. Hernandes1, T. French1, B. > Baldwin1, D. Thomas2, 1Mississippi State University, USA, 2Mississippi > Chemical, USA. > > Sapium sebiferum, commonly known as the Chinese Tallow tree, was > introduced into the United States from its native China as early as > the > 1700s. Unfortunately, the tree's nonnative characteristics allow it to > overrun and easily displace native foliage. Despite its attractive > appearance and valuable oil content, many regions have placed > restrictions on the distribution of the tree, as it has invaded areas > throughout the southeastern United States Chinese Tallow grows quickly > in a variety of soils. The fruit of the tree is a white seed that > contains approximately 40% extractable lipids. This extract can be > used > to produce a number of products, including biodiesel. One hectare of > Chinese Tallow trees can produce approximately 12,500 kg of seed, > which > could potentially yield 5,500 kg of oil. This amount of oil per > hectare > is almost 15 times that of soy oil, which is the most commonly oil for > making biodiesel.The oil that is produced from the Chinese Tallow tree > has been found to contain high amounts of palmitic fatty acid, along > with some oleic, linoleic and linolinic fatty acids. These acids > can be > base transesterified to form biodiesel. Making biodiesel from Chinese > Tallow oil would accomplish two major goals. The invasive Chinese > Tallow > tree would become a useful, commercially viable crop. Also, the > biodiesel produced from Chinese Tallow would allow the United > States to > decrease its dependence on imported energy by displacing foreign > petroleum with a domestic source of biodiesel that would not increase > the necessary crop acreage. > > ************************************** > > The Chinese Tallow Tree - Sapium sebiferum - is in the same plant > family > as Jatropha Curcas (EUPHORBIACEAE - Spurge family) and in the same > family as its Hawaiian 'First Cousin' - Aleurites moluccana - > Candle Nut > - (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/tungoil1.htm -- go down the page). > > Current range in the U.S. - All of Texas, Arkansas, Louisana, > Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and North > Carolina with a cousin in Hawaii. > > For your reference . . . > > http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/alert/alrtsapi.html > > http://home.att.net/~larvalbugbio/chinesetrees.html > > > In the southern United States, S. sebiferum initiates growth in > February, and flowers from March through May. Fruits ripen from August > to November. Trees generally live 15-25 years with a potential > maximum ageof 100, though rootstocks may live much longer > (Jubinsky 1995). > > S. sebiferum can begin flowering and fruiting when the plant is one > meter tall or approximately three years old (Jubinsky 1995). In the > southern U.S., catkins appear from March to June. S. sebiferum > produces two types of inflorescences that are composed of two > different > types of seed clusters, commonly called "grape" and "eagle claw." > The "grape" form, on which the female flowers mature first, produces > pedicelled pods, usually three seeds to a pod, spirally arranged > around a fruiting terminal branchlet. The "eagle claw" form, on > which the > male flowers mature first, produces pedicelled pods arranged around > two or more short stems that branch from the terminal branchlet. > > S. sebiferum plants have tremendous reproductive potential. They may > reach reproductive age in as little as three years, and in greenhouse > experiments, seedlings flowered in their first year of growth. A > mature > tree may annually produce an average of 100,000 seeds that are > dispersed > primarily by birds and water (Duke 1983; Jubinsky and Anderson 1996). > Under favorable conditions, a mature stand of trees can produce > 4,500 kg > of seeds per hectare per year. Trees can remain productive for 100 > years. Tree stumps have the ability to resprout, and roots > fragments can > readily develop shoots (Conway 1). > > > Chemistry > > The fatty acid composition of the oil is: caprylic, 1.50; capric, > 1.00; > myristic, 0.97; palmitic, 2.80; stearic, 1.00; oleic, 9.40; linoleic, > 53.40; and linolenic, 30.00%. A Hong Kong sample contained 26.8% oil, > with: capric, traces; palmitic, 7; stearic, 3; 2,4-decadienoic, 5; > oleic, 7; linoleic, 24; and linolenic, 54%. Stillingia oil is > considered > superior to linseed oil in its drying and polymerizing properties, > probably due to the presence of 2,4-decadienoic acid. Seed meal, left > after the extraction of oil, possesses a high content of protein, > and is > a valuable feed and fertilizer. It can be processed into a refined > flour, containing 75% protein, fit for human consumption. The amino > acid > composition of the protein is as follows: arginine, 16.6; aspartic > acid, > 11.7; cistine, 1.3; glycine, 4.9; glutamic acid, 17.3; histidine, 2.9; > leucine, 7.4; lycine, 2.6; methionine, 1.6; tyrosine, 3.7; and valine, > 7.8%. The vitamin-B content of the flour compares favorably with > that of > wheat-flour. The flour, supplemented with lysine and methionine, is > reported to be superior to wheat-flour. Ethanol extraction of powdered > root bark yielded 0.1% phloracetophenone 2,4-dimethylether, and > reethanol extraction gave xanthoxylin (C10H12O4). The bark also > contains > moretenone, moretenol and a new triterpene, 3-epimoretenol. Leaves > contain gallic and ellagic acids, isoquercitrin, and tannin (5.5%) > (C.S.I.R., 1948-1976). > > Chinese tallow tree is cultivated for its seeds as a source of > vegetable > tallow, a drying oil and protein food, and as an ornamental. Fruits > yield two types of fats: outer covering of seeds contain a solid fat > with low iodine value, known as Chinese Vegetable Tallow; kernels > produce a drying oil with high iodine value, called Stillingia Oil. > > Tallow is used for manufacturing candles, a layer of wax being placed > over the tallow body to prevent too rapid burning; has excellent > burning > quality, and gives an inodorous clear bright flame; also used for > making > soap, cloth dressing and fuel. Pure tallow fat is known in commerce as > Pi-yu. Oil is used in making varnishes and native paints because of > its > quick-drying properties, in machine oils and as a crude lamp oil. Pure > oil expressed from the inner part of the seeds is known in commerce as > Ting-yu. Oil cakes made from crushed seeds with tallow and oil > together > is known as Mou-yu. Residual cake, after oil is expressed, is used as > manure, particularly for tobacco fields. Wood is white and > close-grained, suitable for carving and used for making blocks in > Chinese printing; also used for furniture making and incense. Chinese > prepare a black dye by boiling leaves in alum water. Tree grows > rapidly, > developes an attractive crown, and, as leaves turn red in fall, is > cultivated as a shade or lawn tree about houses. It is used as a soil > binder along roads and canals. > > leaves and fruit > > > > [This message contained attachments] > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > local-b100-biz-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com Wed Oct 19 11:13:03 2005 From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl) Date: Wed Oct 19 10:13:47 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Anyone heard of Chinese Tallow tree? Message-ID: <354CA61AEBC6D944B4268F04D429FD863A7BB8@NT000836.oak.zone1.progress-energy.com> Wow...this is so interesting. Maybe we could start growing some at the Moncure Farm. Sounds like we'd get more oil out of these trees than mustard plants, etc. Cheryl -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_interest_group-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of Rachel Burton Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:29 AM To: Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Anyone heard of Chinese Tallow tree? > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:14:12 -0500 > From: Joe Greene > Subject: 'New' Biodiesel Feed Stock > > Here is it - right under our noses. . . A 'new' prolific oilseed feed > stock source that grows > very well in the Southern U.S. and beyond. (actually a bit too well > - it > is currently considered > a plant pest. > > The potential for this plant to be part of the biodiesel future in the > U.S. is enormous... > > Just read on . . . > > Cordially - Joe Greene > > **************************************************************** > Production of Biodiesel from Lipids Extracted from Chinese Tallow > Tree., > S. Crymble1, B. Copeland1, M. Zappi1, R. Hernandes1, T. French1, B. > Baldwin1, D. Thomas2, 1Mississippi State University, USA, 2Mississippi > Chemical, USA. > > Sapium sebiferum, commonly known as the Chinese Tallow tree, was > introduced into the United States from its native China as early as > the > 1700s. Unfortunately, the tree's nonnative characteristics allow it to > overrun and easily displace native foliage. Despite its attractive > appearance and valuable oil content, many regions have placed > restrictions on the distribution of the tree, as it has invaded areas > throughout the southeastern United States Chinese Tallow grows quickly > in a variety of soils. The fruit of the tree is a white seed that > contains approximately 40% extractable lipids. This extract can be > used > to produce a number of products, including biodiesel. One hectare of > Chinese Tallow trees can produce approximately 12,500 kg of seed, > which > could potentially yield 5,500 kg of oil. This amount of oil per > hectare > is almost 15 times that of soy oil, which is the most commonly oil for > making biodiesel.The oil that is produced from the Chinese Tallow tree > has been found to contain high amounts of palmitic fatty acid, along > with some oleic, linoleic and linolinic fatty acids. These acids > can be > base transesterified to form biodiesel. Making biodiesel from Chinese > Tallow oil would accomplish two major goals. The invasive Chinese > Tallow > tree would become a useful, commercially viable crop. Also, the > biodiesel produced from Chinese Tallow would allow the United > States to > decrease its dependence on imported energy by displacing foreign > petroleum with a domestic source of biodiesel that would not increase > the necessary crop acreage. > > ************************************** > > The Chinese Tallow Tree - Sapium sebiferum - is in the same plant > family > as Jatropha Curcas (EUPHORBIACEAE - Spurge family) and in the same > family as its Hawaiian 'First Cousin' - Aleurites moluccana - > Candle Nut > - (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/tungoil1.htm -- go down the page). > > Current range in the U.S. - All of Texas, Arkansas, Louisana, > Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and North > Carolina with a cousin in Hawaii. > > For your reference . . . > > http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/alert/alrtsapi.html > > http://home.att.net/~larvalbugbio/chinesetrees.html > > > In the southern United States, S. sebiferum initiates growth in > February, and flowers from March through May. Fruits ripen from August > to November. Trees generally live 15-25 years with a potential > maximum ageof 100, though rootstocks may live much longer > (Jubinsky 1995). > > S. sebiferum can begin flowering and fruiting when the plant is one > meter tall or approximately three years old (Jubinsky 1995). In the > southern U.S., catkins appear from March to June. S. sebiferum > produces two types of inflorescences that are composed of two > different > types of seed clusters, commonly called "grape" and "eagle claw." > The "grape" form, on which the female flowers mature first, produces > pedicelled pods, usually three seeds to a pod, spirally arranged > around a fruiting terminal branchlet. The "eagle claw" form, on > which the > male flowers mature first, produces pedicelled pods arranged around > two or more short stems that branch from the terminal branchlet. > > S. sebiferum plants have tremendous reproductive potential. They may > reach reproductive age in as little as three years, and in greenhouse > experiments, seedlings flowered in their first year of growth. A > mature > tree may annually produce an average of 100,000 seeds that are > dispersed > primarily by birds and water (Duke 1983; Jubinsky and Anderson 1996). > Under favorable conditions, a mature stand of trees can produce > 4,500 kg > of seeds per hectare per year. Trees can remain productive for 100 > years. Tree stumps have the ability to resprout, and roots > fragments can > readily develop shoots (Conway 1). > > > Chemistry > > The fatty acid composition of the oil is: caprylic, 1.50; capric, > 1.00; > myristic, 0.97; palmitic, 2.80; stearic, 1.00; oleic, 9.40; linoleic, > 53.40; and linolenic, 30.00%. A Hong Kong sample contained 26.8% oil, > with: capric, traces; palmitic, 7; stearic, 3; 2,4-decadienoic, 5; > oleic, 7; linoleic, 24; and linolenic, 54%. Stillingia oil is > considered > superior to linseed oil in its drying and polymerizing properties, > probably due to the presence of 2,4-decadienoic acid. Seed meal, left > after the extraction of oil, possesses a high content of protein, > and is > a valuable feed and fertilizer. It can be processed into a refined > flour, containing 75% protein, fit for human consumption. The amino > acid > composition of the protein is as follows: arginine, 16.6; aspartic > acid, > 11.7; cistine, 1.3; glycine, 4.9; glutamic acid, 17.3; histidine, 2.9; > leucine, 7.4; lycine, 2.6; methionine, 1.6; tyrosine, 3.7; and valine, > 7.8%. The vitamin-B content of the flour compares favorably with > that of > wheat-flour. The flour, supplemented with lysine and methionine, is > reported to be superior to wheat-flour. Ethanol extraction of powdered > root bark yielded 0.1% phloracetophenone 2,4-dimethylether, and > reethanol extraction gave xanthoxylin (C10H12O4). The bark also > contains > moretenone, moretenol and a new triterpene, 3-epimoretenol. Leaves > contain gallic and ellagic acids, isoquercitrin, and tannin (5.5%) > (C.S.I.R., 1948-1976). > > Chinese tallow tree is cultivated for its seeds as a source of > vegetable > tallow, a drying oil and protein food, and as an ornamental. Fruits > yield two types of fats: outer covering of seeds contain a solid fat > with low iodine value, known as Chinese Vegetable Tallow; kernels > produce a drying oil with high iodine value, called Stillingia Oil. > > Tallow is used for manufacturing candles, a layer of wax being placed > over the tallow body to prevent too rapid burning; has excellent > burning > quality, and gives an inodorous clear bright flame; also used for > making > soap, cloth dressing and fuel. Pure tallow fat is known in commerce as > Pi-yu. Oil is used in making varnishes and native paints because of > its > quick-drying properties, in machine oils and as a crude lamp oil. Pure > oil expressed from the inner part of the seeds is known in commerce as > Ting-yu. Oil cakes made from crushed seeds with tallow and oil > together > is known as Mou-yu. Residual cake, after oil is expressed, is used as > manure, particularly for tobacco fields. Wood is white and > close-grained, suitable for carving and used for making blocks in > Chinese printing; also used for furniture making and incense. Chinese > prepare a black dye by boiling leaves in alum water. Tree grows > rapidly, > developes an attractive crown, and, as leaves turn red in fall, is > cultivated as a shade or lawn tree about houses. It is used as a soil > binder along roads and canals. > > leaves and fruit > > > > [This message contained attachments] > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > local-b100-biz-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From wrenchwench at blast.com Wed Oct 19 15:05:36 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Wed Oct 19 14:07:34 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Elsbett Vegetable Fuel Conversion Workshop Message-ID: Elsbett Vegetable Fuel Systems Workshop this weekend in Pittsboro, North Carolina with special guest, Alexander Noack from Elsbett Technologies in Germany. We will be converting 10 vehicles (mostly VW and Mercedes) over the weekend. Come participate in a Straight Vegetable Oil conversion workshop! This Saturday, October 22nd 2005 10:00am ? 5:00pm Pittsboro Campus Central Carolina Community College www.cccc.edu Workshop Fee: $60.00 To register for the workshop please contact: Ramona or Shelly at 919-542-6495 ext 223 From symon at safenet-inc.com Wed Oct 19 16:08:04 2005 From: symon at safenet-inc.com (Jim Symon) Date: Wed Oct 19 15:08:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length Message-ID: <43569994.4050500@safenet-inc.com> Please, folks. Could we learn to make replies that don't copy the whole initial message and/or digest into the reply message? Greatly appreciated. Symon (Boy, I hope I don't have a lot of junk inadvertently appended to this message. Can't help the corp disclaimer.) The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. From vidrinmr at wfu.edu Thu Oct 20 13:04:40 2005 From: vidrinmr at wfu.edu (Robert Vidrine) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:01:51 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Blue Ridge Biofuels and ... name that smell In-Reply-To: <4e961f6b0510170752p326c5441r94bc9e702d71a2cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <4e961f6b0510170752p326c5441r94bc9e702d71a2cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4357C018.9000506@wfu.edu> Hi Richard, > Counting the fuel I filled up with from Piedmont biofuels coop my trip > from Fuquay to Asheville, toodeling around in the mountains and > pulling the camper back to Fuquay consumed about 50 gallons of B100 > last week. The truck ran great although I did have a hard start one > monring. That's good fuel mileage! > I still haven't been able to quantify the B100 smell out of the > Powerstroke. I don't know if the catalytic converter is changing the > odor but it doesn't smell as much like cooked food as it does... a > charcoal grille. I run SVO so far (still getting BioD production ramped up), and I was a little disappointed the first time I ran a full tank. I was expecting the "french fry" smell, but, like you said, it smelled more like someone firing up the grill and burning off the old bits of food and grease. Haven't really smelled burning BioD as a comparison... Happy toodeling! Robert From Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com Thu Oct 20 17:28:44 2005 From: Cheryl.Ganter at pgnmail.com (Ganter, Cheryl) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:11:06 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] FW: [Biofuels_class] Question? Message-ID: <354CA61AEBC6D944B4268F04D429FD863A7BCE@NT000836.oak.zone1.progress-energy.com> It eats it up. -----Original Message----- From: biofuels_class-bounces@lists.emji.net [mailto:biofuels_class-bounces@lists.emji.net] On Behalf Of terry hagemeier Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 10:07 AM To: biofuels_class@lists.emji.net Subject: [Biofuels_class] Question? What does biodiesel do to silicon sealant? __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ _______________________________________________ Biofuels_class mailing list Biofuels_class@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_class From jcbaron at verizon.net Thu Oct 20 17:20:54 2005 From: jcbaron at verizon.net (Jim Baron) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:20:59 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Blue Ridge Biofuels and ... name that smell Message-ID: <529423.1129843254308.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> >I run SVO so far (still getting BioD production ramped up), and I was a >little disappointed the first time I ran a full tank. I was expecting >the "french fry" smell, but, like you said, it smelled more like someone >firing up the grill and burning off the old bits of food and grease. > >Haven't really smelled burning BioD as a comparison... > >Happy toodeling! >Robert > At bible study last night, one of the elderly ladies in the group mentioned that her home heating oil supplier had circulated a notice that they might have to blend some biofuel into their deliveries this winter because of the shortage of petrofuels which is expected. She knew from other conversations that I'd be interested, but unfortunately had no other information to add. This is in southeastern Virginia. Jim Baron Senex From jcbaron at verizon.net Thu Oct 20 17:24:04 2005 From: jcbaron at verizon.net (Jim Baron) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:24:06 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Blue Ridge Biofuels and ... name that smell Message-ID: <8268281.1129843444973.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> >I run SVO so far (still getting BioD production ramped up), and I was a >little disappointed the first time I ran a full tank. I was expecting >the "french fry" smell, but, like you said, it smelled more like someone >firing up the grill and burning off the old bits of food and grease. > >Haven't really smelled burning BioD as a comparison... > >Happy toodeling! >Robert > At bible study last night, one of the elderly ladies in the group mentioned that her home heating oil supplier had circulated a notice that they might have to blend some biofuel into their deliveries this winter because of the shortage of petrofuels which is expected. She knew from other conversations that I'd be interested, but unfortunately had no other information to add. This is in southeastern Virginia. Jim Baron Senex From jcbaron at verizon.net Thu Oct 20 17:25:09 2005 From: jcbaron at verizon.net (Jim Baron) Date: Thu Oct 20 17:25:13 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Blue Ridge Biofuels and ... name that smell Message-ID: <17744312.1129843509609.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> >I run SVO so far (still getting BioD production ramped up), and I was a >little disappointed the first time I ran a full tank. I was expecting >the "french fry" smell, but, like you said, it smelled more like someone >firing up the grill and burning off the old bits of food and grease. > >Haven't really smelled burning BioD as a comparison... > >Happy toodeling! >Robert > At bible study last night, one of the elderly ladies in the group mentioned that her home heating oil supplier had circulated a notice that they might have to blend some biofuel into their deliveries this winter because of the shortage of petrofuels which is expected. She knew from other conversations that I'd be interested, but unfortunately had no other information to add. This is in southeastern Virginia. Jim Baron Senex From oakleaf1 at charter.net Thu Oct 20 20:39:51 2005 From: oakleaf1 at charter.net (Randy C Almendinger) Date: Thu Oct 20 19:40:00 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length References: <43569994.4050500@safenet-inc.com> Message-ID: <00d901c5d5cf$91ff4760$6501a8c0@RANDY> Actually, I prefer the replies along with the original message. That way I can delete the original and keep the message with the latest replies. It is all in one e-mail that way. Just food for thought. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Symon" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:08 PM Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length > > Please, folks. Could we learn to make replies that don't copy the whole > initial message and/or digest into the reply message? Greatly appreciated. > > Symon > > (Boy, I hope I don't have a lot of junk inadvertently appended to this > message. Can't help the corp disclaimer.) > > > The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be > privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If > you have received this communication in error, please notify us > immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer > without copying or disclosing it. > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From wrenchwench at blast.com Thu Oct 20 22:54:22 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Thu Oct 20 21:54:27 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Duke/UNC Seminar Series: Energy in Transition References: Message-ID: <6441BF4E-D594-4C22-B1B1-4C63736F75F7@blast.com> > > Greetings: > > On Monday, Oct. 24th, from 5:30-7:00 pm at Duke University, in the > PhysicsBuilding room 114, we will be hosting the fourth seminar of > the Robertson Seminar Series: Energy in Transition. Please note > time and location as these have changed. (Further details and > directions can be found here:www.nicholas.duke.edu/robertson or > email energy@nicholas.duke.edu.) > > Dr. Joel Swisher of the Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI) will deliver > a talk titled "Facility-Level Greenhouse Gas Management: Strategies > for Energy Efficiency and Carbon Neutrality", summarizing > strategies that an organization can use to reduce its greenhouse > gas emissions at low cost. These include energy efficiency, > distributed power, carbon trading, and financial innovation. A > description of the RMI's work to devise a carbon neutral strategy > for Oberlin College provides an example of the use of these > strategies at an educational institution. > > The Robertson Program Seminars on Energy in Transition is co- > sponsored by the NicholasSchool of the Environment and Earth > Sciences at Duke University and the University of North Carolina at > Chapel Hill, with the generous support of the Robertson Program > Foundation. > > Information on other upcoming events is pasted below. We hope you > can join us, and look forward to seeing you! > > Best, > > Chris Murphy, Program Coordinator for Energy & Environment at the > Nicholas School of Environment & Earth Sciences > Gerald Cecil, Professor of Physics & Astronomy, UNC Chapel Hill > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tuesday, 10/25/05 starting at 7pm > Friday Center, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > Amory Lovins of Rocky Mountain Institute and Bill Schlesinger of > the Nicholas School: > "Transitioning to Safe, Economical Electricity" (more info at > http://www.ncwarn.org/Forum.htm) > > Wednesday, 10/26/05 from 4:30-6pm > Old Chemistry, Room 116, Duke University > Pete Rose, President of the American Association of Petroleum > Geologists, presents the 2005 Perkins Lecture on: > "Perspectives on Petroleum Exploration & Production, Oil and Gas > Prices, and Intelligent Energy Futures" > > Monday, 11/28/05 from 6-7:30pm > Love Auditorium, LSRC, Duke University > Matthew Simmons of Simmons & Co, Int'l and author of "Twilight in > the Desert" presents the final installment of the Robertson Seminar > Series: > "How Do We Dig Out of Our Energy Hole?" > > From alizard at ecis.com Thu Oct 20 20:29:14 2005 From: alizard at ecis.com (A.Lizard) Date: Thu Oct 20 22:29:22 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: Biofuels_class Digest, Vol 24, Issue 4 Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20051020192851.04e059d0@mail.ecis.com> At 06:43 AM 10/20/05, you wrote: Who is considering them? A.Lizard >Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:27:41 -0400 >From: "Allen Giles" >To: "'Jim Baron'" , > "'John Bonitz'" , > , >Subject: RE: [Biofuels_class] paying attention to the Chinese tallow tree >Message-ID: <200510201127.j9KBRe3p008875@baubau.cape.com> >In-Reply-To: <21457084.1129762643687.JavaMail.root@vms070.mailsrvcs.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Precedence: list >Reply-To: agiles@cape.com >Message: 5 > >Jatropha and the algae farms are being considered for the Southwestern arid >states. From symon at safenet-inc.com Fri Oct 21 09:09:26 2005 From: symon at safenet-inc.com (Jim Symon) Date: Fri Oct 21 08:10:19 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length In-Reply-To: <00d901c5d5cf$91ff4760$6501a8c0@RANDY> References: <43569994.4050500@safenet-inc.com> <00d901c5d5cf$91ff4760$6501a8c0@RANDY> Message-ID: <4358DA76.10809@safenet-inc.com> Randy C Almendinger wrote: > Actually, I prefer the replies along with the original message... Randy, I guess it may depend on whether you get the messages directly or in digest form. If I got them directly I'd probably agree. In the digest it makes a repetitive mess that is a pain to sort through for the fresh material. Maybe judicious trimming of the original is the answer. The worst, of course, is when someone who gets the digest replies including the whole digest! Apologies to the group but I thought a brief meta-post might be acceptable. JS The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer without copying or disclosing it. From panthercat at mac.com Fri Oct 21 09:56:28 2005 From: panthercat at mac.com (Carlos Thompson) Date: Fri Oct 21 08:56:32 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length In-Reply-To: <00d901c5d5cf$91ff4760$6501a8c0@RANDY> References: <43569994.4050500@safenet-inc.com> <00d901c5d5cf$91ff4760$6501a8c0@RANDY> Message-ID: <3990679.1129899388524.JavaMail.panthercat@mac.com> Yes I agree that I like the whole thread life coming through because it makes it easy to send to friends not on this list. And even more (even though I used my .Mac account for this list) if you aren't using Gmail which organizes thread's *beautifully* then well you really should be. If you want an invite to Google Gmail just send me your current email address...don't know if they have opened it up yet. (Because of the great thread organization, my friends and I use Gmail as a corporate safe IM system during the day.) Great News! My brother just purchased a 01(?) Jetta GL TDI! Two TDI's in the family now plus his roomates! We are definitely looking into our own BioD kit now. -Carlos On Thursday, October 20, 2005, at 07:40PM, Randy C Almendinger wrote: >Actually, I prefer the replies along with the original message. That way I >can delete the original and keep the message with the latest replies. It is >all in one e-mail that way. > >Just food for thought. > >Randy > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Symon" >To: ; > >Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:08 PM >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length > > >> >> Please, folks. Could we learn to make replies that don't copy the whole >> initial message and/or digest into the reply message? Greatly appreciated. >> >> Symon >> >> (Boy, I hope I don't have a lot of junk inadvertently appended to this >> message. Can't help the corp disclaimer.) >> >> >> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be >> privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure. If >> you have received this communication in error, please notify us >> immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer >> without copying or disclosing it. >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > > From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri Oct 21 11:53:02 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri Oct 21 10:53:02 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length In-Reply-To: <3990679.1129899388524.JavaMail.panthercat@mac.com> References: <43569994.4050500@safenet-inc.com> <00d901c5d5cf$91ff4760$6501a8c0@RANDY> <3990679.1129899388524.JavaMail.panthercat@mac.com> Message-ID: Here is a kind reminder of the rules of the BIG list, in case you have not seen them. Thank you for your interest & contributions. ----------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the Biofuels Interest Group List Serv. We think it is BIG! This group is here for you, so feel free to ask any question or to discuss anything biofuel related. But before you post, please take a few minutes to read the following rules and guidelines about posting on this listserve. By being mindful of the rules, everyone can have a good time talking about biofuels. The normal rules of civil discourse and netiquette apply to users of the BIG list: Edit your replies. When replying to a previous post, select the meaningful portions, and quote from it, but do not include the entire text in your reply. Use ?in-line,? rather than using ?on-top? responses. Example: Quote from post --your reply Quote from post --your reply ?On-top? responses tend to reverse the conversation, make things exceedingly hard to follow and are commonly ignored by many subscribers Provide links instead of whole articles. If your post is of interest, the reader can link out to it and enjoy it with a browser, rather than using their mail client. Not all text formats appear correctly in all mail clients. Formatting problems can be eliminated by providing links. Keep advertisements to a minimum. A lot of diesel vehicles are traded on this list, which is fine, but the number of posts selling goods and services should be proportional to other contributions you make to the conversation. This is not a commercial list. No inappropriate language or subject matter will be tolerated. If you chose to post something that is inappropriate, you will be permanently banned from the listserve. No warnings will be given. If you have a question about what is inappropriate and what is not, please ask before you post and we will be happy to guide you on this matter. Please try to keep your ?signature? to a minimum. It is extremely difficult to follow posts with short messages and really long signatures. Also, high graphic signatures eat up a lot of bandwidth and slow things down. If you have signatures that fit either of these descriptions, we ask that you modify them when using this list. Please stay on-topic or your post will be deleted. Please keep your post to the topics listed above. Casual conversations between posters will be deleted without notice. We do not use ?chat room? or ?short- cut English" on this list. Posts using, for example, "kewl," "u" for "you," or no capitalization or punctuation will be deleted. While it is true that we do ?lyt ? (luv ya tons), we prefer proper usage. Disagreeing with another poster will inevitably happen. However, ?flaming? another poster will not be tolerated. You can post a dissenting opinion without attacking another poster. If you do, you will be banned. From time to time you will receive messages from the BIG list administrators. These messages will have Please Read in the subject line, and they will notify list users of maintenance, or other issues associated with the list. Please do not post messages directly to the webmaster or administrator. The only exception would be to notify them that there is a technical problem with the list. They are here to make sure things run smoothly and that posters are following the rules -- not to get into discussions/debates with posters. For virus control, the BIG list does not accept attachments. They are stripped off before messages are sent to list members. This way it is not possible to get a virus from the BIG list. From time to time you will receive messages from the BIG list administrators. These messages will have Please Read in the subject line, and they will notify list users of maintenance, or other issues associated with the list. For more information on netiquette, try Ben Goren?s ?Play Nice, Children? http://www.trumpetpower.com/Rants/Netiquette. We are grateful to Keith Addison for his ?Rules of the List,? which you can visit at http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/000005.html Our goal is to further information sharing about biofuels throughout the Southeast and North Carolina. It is important to have a place to network with others who are producing, using or researching biofuels. Be sure to visit the links and other discussion forums listed below for more helpful information on biodiesel, straight vegetable oil, and other biofuels. Below are some highly recommended resources for learning more. Piedmont Biofuels Energy Blog www.biofuels.coop/blog Biodiesel Blogs http://biodieselblogs.truffula.net/ Collaborative Biodiesel Tutorial www.biodieselcommunity.org Biodiesel Homebrewing Guide available from www.localb100.com InfoPop Biodiesel Forum Forum for all things Biodiesel http://biodiesel.infopop.cc Biodiesel Now A great forum for general biodiesel information. www.biodieselnow.com Other recommended Biofuel discussion Groups: Biodieselbasics www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biodieselbasics Local B100 Biz Forum of dedicated to biodiesel businesses & regulations :http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz Vegoil-Diesel Dedicated to all thing's SVO vegoil- diesel@yahoogroups.com Biofuel mailing list (Journey to Forever.org) Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Thanks for your interest and happy biofueling! Signed, Biofuel Interest Group listserve moderators On Oct 21, 2005, at 8:56 AM, Carlos Thompson wrote: > Yes I agree that I like the whole thread life coming through > because it makes it easy to send to friends not on this list. And > even more (even though I used my .Mac account for this list) if you > aren't using Gmail which organizes thread's *beautifully* then well > you really should be. > > If you want an invite to Google Gmail just send me your current > email address...don't know if they have opened it up yet. > > (Because of the great thread organization, my friends and I use > Gmail as a corporate safe IM system during the day.) > > Great News! My brother just purchased a 01(?) Jetta GL TDI! Two > TDI's in the family now plus his roomates! We are definitely > looking into our own BioD kit now. > > -Carlos > > > On Thursday, October 20, 2005, at 07:40PM, Randy C Almendinger > wrote: > > >> Actually, I prefer the replies along with the original message. >> That way I >> can delete the original and keep the message with the latest >> replies. It is >> all in one e-mail that way. >> >> Just food for thought. >> >> Randy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Symon" >> To: ; >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:08 PM >> Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] reply email length >> >> >> >>> >>> Please, folks. Could we learn to make replies that don't copy the >>> whole >>> initial message and/or digest into the reply message? Greatly >>> appreciated. >>> >>> Symon >>> >>> (Boy, I hope I don't have a lot of junk inadvertently appended to >>> this >>> message. Can't help the corp disclaimer.) >>> >>> >>> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission >>> may be >>> privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from >>> disclosure. If >>> you have received this communication in error, please notify us >>> immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your >>> computer >>> without copying or disclosing it. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >> Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >> http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Tue Oct 25 10:12:33 2005 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark J Ambrose) Date: Tue Oct 25 12:12:34 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Re: Chinese Tallow tree Message-ID: <20051025161233.28179.fh050.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> Folks - I'm weighing in a little late on the Chinese tallow tree discussion. I was reading the thread last week while attending the Society of American Foresters national convention in TX. Now that I have time to respond, I'll keep my forester's hat on to give a few comments. Chinese tallow tree is problematic for a number of reasons all relating to the fact that the part of the tree that makes it potentially valuable for biofuels is the fruit. If the woody material in the tree were of value, then one might find a way to use that biomass and use the profit to subsidize eradication efforts. That has been happening in S. Florida with melaleuca (Melaleuca quinquenervia). A company there buys the trees, chips them up and sells the chips as an eco-friendly garden mulch. This allows landowners to recover some of the cost of clearing melaleuca from their property and gives them an easy way to dispose of the material. However, the part of Chinese tallow of interest to us is the fruit. There is really no economical way of harvesting fruit that is growing all over the place where the tree is invaded. If one considers planting the tree, fruit is also the problem. If we were just interested in biomass, the tree could be planted and harvested before it was old enough to produce fruit. However, that won't work for oil production. The flip side of this, however, is that if one could manage near 100% harvest of the fruit without seed dispersers (birds) getting at them, there would be little risk. This is hard to do UNLESS the fruit becomes usable for its oil value before it becomes palatable to birds (I don't know if this is the case). I think the only situation where it might be viable to grow chinese tallow tree as an oil crop in the US would be in places that were already so badly infested with the tree that any additional seed that got out from the oil seed plantations could not make things any worse (yet where the state has not listed it as a noxious weed, making planting of it illegal). There are not many such locations. [On a much lighter note, this discussion of oil-crop plants getting out of control reminded me of the John Wyndham novel, "Day of the Triffids" (1951). Some of you may be old enough to remember the 1962 movie of the same name. One element of the book that is not in the movie is that the triffids were being widely grown all over the world as an oil producing plant. While Chinese tallow could never be as dangerous as a triffid (an ambulatory, carnivorous, oil-producing plant), the book does serve as a warning of the danger of propogating organisms that we think we can control.] -- Mark From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Tue Oct 25 10:27:35 2005 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark J Ambrose) Date: Tue Oct 25 12:27:38 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] More on Chinese Tallow Tree Message-ID: <20051025162736.1804.fh050.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> Bob -- A good idea, except that there is no way to harvest the quantity of fruit needed to biodiesel production from all those scattered trees already on the landscape. However, for folks living down on the coastal plain and further south where Chinese tallow has become established, a cottage industy use does come to mind. The fruit description makes it sound like the perfect input for candle-making. One should be able to use the fruit just like bayberry (wax myrtle) -- put fruit in boiling water and wax from outer layer floats to the top. -- Mark -------------------------------------------- Wendy, Pay attention. I understand your diatribe on invasive species. We have many that are impossible to control. But to go to heart of the matter, the statement from Rachel says they have been here since the 1700's. That is over THREE HUNDRED years. They are imbedded by now. The best next thing is to USE them. Harvesting them or the fruit actually reduces the spread. At least there are many uses. Most invasive plants do not. My two cents worth. Bob From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Tue Oct 25 23:35:10 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Tue Oct 25 22:35:10 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510251935l6c816e5u8b64e14185b2ac9a@mail.gmail.com> Beware... long post follows concerning use of biodiesel in high percent blends in modern diesel engines: After exchanging emails with a number of individuals on this list and spending far too long reading hundreds of postings in many different diesel forums I've gleaned some knowledge that I'd like to share. So with suitable skepticism on your part, here it goes: I've been running biodiesel blends from B20 up to B90 in my 2005 Ford F250 Powerstroke 6.0 engine for most of the summer (over 6,500 miles on BD in various blends, hundreds on B90). I recently purchased a 2006 Jetta with the PD-TDI motor for my family. I was about to begin using a B50 blend in the new Jetta when I asked a question last week on the list concerning polymerization in high psi injector systems. It turns out that polymerization seems to be a typical "web tale" that no one can substantiate but failures of sensors and pump motors in the new PD-TDI do seem to occur, over time, when running high blends of BD. I wanted to find out why because I wanted to eventually get to B100 in both my vehicles. In some cases it seemed that the failure was simply a case of bad biodiesel (emulsified, high water content, etc.) But in other cases the biodiesel seemed to be quality stuff. Hopefully what I've gleaned will help someone: You probably have heard of the ASTM 6571 specification for biodiesel. The ASTM D-6571 spec for biodiesel is a specification for B100 _blended_ with petrodiesel up to B20 (20%). Simply having ASTM spec'd fuel does not mean it's suitable as a NEAT (pure) fuel source. Modern diesel engines are designed for ASTM D-975 which is the specification for petrodiesel. Now biodiesel will of course combust in any compression ignition engine but it's physical characteristics differ from the 975 specification that modern diesel engines ARE DESIGNED to burn. One of the most notable physical differences between petrodiesel and biodiesel is viscosity. D-975 specifies a viscosity between 1.9 - 4.1. The 6751 spec specifies 4.1 - 6.0 . That is quite a difference. New ULS diesel comes in at the low end of the 975 spec (1.9). While most biodiesel comes in between 4.2 - 5.0 (depending on feedstock source). You can see that if your trying to inject biodiesel in near pure form you are trying to compress a liquid that is near 2.5x as viscous as what the injection system was designed for. In older motors with lower injection pressures, designed for dirtier high sulfur fuel this doesn't seem to be an issue but in modern diesels with very high injection pressures and microscopic injector nozzle openings it becomes important. The mechanical forces on the injector and pump are multiplied. Apparently as fuel approaches it's cloud point the viscosity numbers climb much higher (I haven't seen any hard numbers but it's logical). It's not just a matter of worrying that your fuel filter gets clogged with wax crystals., Far before the cloud point the injector pump may be exposed to pressures that are triple it's design spec due to increased viscosity. That will result in the extra load being transmitted to the pump armature or cam bearing lobe (in the case of the PD-TDI). Physical internal pressures on the injector itself will go up dramatically as well. Keep in mind all of this is arm chair engineering but it's also logical. My point in all this is that we need to be aware that modern diesel engines are designed for different physical characteristics of the fuel than biodiesel possesses, especially in regard to viscosity and that we need to be careful with our blends. The vehicle manufacturers may be testing their engines for compatibility with biodiesel but the engines that are being sold in new cars and trucks today are not "designed" for biodiesel. Blends up to B5 are obviously safe because the conservative industry is supporting it. I'm not aware of any official support from any manufacturer for B20 but it's probably on it's way. Above a B20 blend use common sense. If you're running a PD-TDI with extremely high psi unit injectors and microscopic injector nozzle holes don't expect it to work forever at a limit for which it wasn't designed. Anecdotal information will be helpful in making up your mind... so and so has run their xyz engine for 20,000 miles on B100 so I can to... who knows what wear is taking place in that motor. VW began selling the PD (pump dusse) TDI motor in the US in 2004 vehicles. The high pressure Ford Powerstroke 6.0 came out in 2003. Older VW TDI engines had injector pressures of around 16,000psi rather than 26,000psi, similar specs between old versus new Powerstroke engines. Personally I feel that the HEUI designs like the Powerstroke will be more forgiving because the injector pump is a bay of high pressure oil where the pressure is transmitted to each injector through a 7-1 ratio plunger. Any pressure overload only occurs inside the injector body itself, and in the case of the PS 6.0 motor it's injector nozzles are have bigger holes than a VW PD-TDI. The VW PD-TDI has separate injector units for each cylinder powered by a physical pressure exerted by lobes on the camshaft. That sort of direct connection will transmit higher loads all the way back through to the lobe surface without any "give". More potential for overpressure in the injection unit. Also the for reasons that I haven't discovered the new Jetta TDI with the automatic transmission uses smaller injector openings than the manual shift version of the car, so auto transmission TDI drivers should be even more careful. However, I'm not knocking these engine designs. Both engines work wonderfully for the type of fuel they were designed for. Just keep in mind what happens when you raise viscosity of a liquid under pressure you are also raising the pressures. Personally I'm going to continue to run B50 in my Powerstroke 6.0 motor this winter and run B20 in the PD-TDI. As more data becomes available we may find out that the PD-TDI pump unit is over designed and can handle the higher pressures over the life of the engine. I haven't read as much concerning the Jeep Liberty CRD with it's Italian built Detroit Motors engine, but it appears that it's common rail injector system is probably more compatible with higher BD blends than the VW PD-TDI. It's also of note that apparently VW will transition away from the PD motor to a common rail design over the next few years, so that may bode well for future buyers who want to use high blends of biodiesel. New cars are rarely a _wise_ investment but I've made the choice of investing in two of them this year and I'd like to keep them running on as high a percentage of clean, renewable, domestically produced fuel as long as possible without threatening my investments. Hopefully this information is accurate and it will help others of you trying to decide whether to run biodiesel in a new diesel engine or those of you considering whether to purchase an older diesel versus a new one. -Richard- -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From john.bonitz at gmail.com Tue Oct 25 20:51:16 2005 From: john.bonitz at gmail.com (John Bonitz) Date: Tue Oct 25 22:51:14 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] don't get comfortable with high petro-diesel prices Message-ID: <84a57a420510251951r61f9bd4fh84ce8d5533b1eed2@mail.gmail.com> Hi gang, Last night Jim Woodfin (Brevard Biodiesel Coop) and I went over to Duke Univ to see Joel Swisher speak on energy efficiency and climate neutrality. Swisher is an energy economist and efficiency expert with Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI). During the Q&A, the conversation turned to automobiles. I asked for Joel's thoughts on the likelihood of the big automakers (or RMI's spinoff, HyperCar, Inc.) introducing hybrid diesel-electric vehicles. His response was interesting. Rather than giving me some insights based on his working relationship with the big automakers, he offered speculation. But his speculation struck me as spot-on, clear-headed, and quite likely. He said that he expected that the big trucking corporations would respond to current high fuel-prices, and wield their buying power to get the truckmakers to build more fuel efficient trucks. This coupled with other (more immediate) demand-reduction efforts (like anti-idling campaigns) would likely cause demand to drop so much that diesel prices would drop. Cheaper diesel fuel would probably cause the automakers to respond with more diesel engines in their showrooms. And if the numbers of diesels sold grows, then these numbers might very well include some diesel-electric hybrids. (Of course, he said all this much more succinctly than I have, but some readers here might not have grasped the jargon.) It seems a complicated stream of events, I realize. (But such is the nature of economics!) Whaddya know, tonight I find a news item that confirms the first step of Joel's emerging scenario! "Wal-Mart Launches Environmental Drive" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051025/ap_on_bi_ge/wal_mart QUOTE: "...Targets include increasing fuel efficiency in Wal-Mart's truck fleet by 25 percent over three years and doubling it within 10 years; investing $500 million annually in efficient energy technologies at stores; and cutting solid waste from U.S. stores and Sam's Clubs by 25 percent in three years. We biodieselers better not assume these high petro-diesel costs are going to last much longer than this winter. -- John Bonitz Silk Hope, NC www.biofuels.coop From info at independentbiofuels.com Wed Oct 26 07:16:49 2005 From: info at independentbiofuels.com (Independent Biofuels) Date: Wed Oct 26 09:16:51 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel availible in Greenville NC Message-ID: <20051026131649.98309.qmail@web404.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> B-5 is availible in Greenville NC at the Shell station on Greenville Bvld, beside the Pizza Inn. It is provided by POtter oil and is 2.99 as of October 26, 2005, $0.20 cents cheaper than diesel anywhere else in town! Independent Biofuels 919-341-4436 866-691-3031 info@independentbiofuels.com www.independentbiofuels.com From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Wed Oct 26 16:57:49 2005 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark J Ambrose) Date: Wed Oct 26 18:57:50 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines Message-ID: <20051026225749.16578.fh038.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> If your info/analysis is correct, it seems like there is a fairly straightforward fix to allow the use of higher biodiesel blends -- heat the fuel to lower the viscosity. A system similar to that used by SVO folks to heat their veggie oil should be able to lower the biodiesel viscosiy to very close to that of petrodiesel. Of course, I wouldn't want to try it out on a brand new car, but it would be worth experimenting on a slightly older TDI. -- Mark ----------------- Richard wrote: ------------- ----stuff deleted ---- Apparently as fuel approaches it's cloud point the viscosity numbers climb much higher (I haven't seen any hard numbers but it's logical). It's not just a matter of worrying that your fuel filter gets clogged with wax crystals., Far before the cloud point the injector pump may be exposed to pressures that are triple it's design spec due to increased viscosity. That will result in the extra load being transmitted to the pump armature or cam bearing lobe (in the case of the PD-TDI). Physical internal pressures on the injector itself will go up dramatically as well. From Trip at netpath.net Wed Oct 26 10:26:37 2005 From: Trip at netpath.net (G.T. Overholt) Date: Thu Oct 27 06:49:34 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines References: <4e961f6b0510251935l6c816e5u8b64e14185b2ac9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003e01c5dae4$1d8fa900$06c56bd1@Snowcamp1> Dear Richard, Thank you very much for doing the research on a question my business partner and I have been wondering about for some time now. About a year ago, we dove in to biodiesel (to fulfill the dream of as near total sustainability as we could muster in our lives) and built a small commercial grade biodiesel processing operation. We also bought two new Ford F250 trucks. Those trucks are rather pricey and we really don't want to mess up their engines. We called Navistar, the manufacturer of the Ford Powerstroke diesel engine and asked them what might go wrong in their engines running biodiesel. They speculated that the only problem they foresaw was the injectors as they were high tech and designed for petrodiesel with precise characteristics and additives. We have been running blends haphazardly mixed together in the b80 range all summer. We have noticed that the trucks start up differently on B80. Rather than burst into life with a roar they sort of gently coax themselves into life. The valves seem to be quieter which we've ascribed to the greater lubridicity of biodiesel. It is nice to know about the viscosity and injector pressures. One idea they gave me to monitor potential degradation of injector systems was to take a baseline emissions test on the vehicle right now, while they are still new and then another in six months. If the emissions change, then you know something is probably going on with the injectors. We have not done that yet, but now that I'm giving advice to others I think I'll take my own and get it done. This winter, we will continue to run B80 in temperatures above 32 degrees. Below that we will go to B50 or less if the trucks are hard to start. One more thing. We go to great lengths to produce the purest biodiesel we can. To do that we get the highest quality feedstock we can, heat our processor during reaction and wash the hell out of our fuel - often as many as 4-6 washings. We filter it twice before putting it ino our trucks and we add an algecide to our storage tank. We would be surprised if other home brewers went to these lengths and we are not surprised at all to hear the stories of poor starting, clogged filters etc. in their TDI's. When posting personal stories to the biodiesel blog, it would be helpful to know what processes bloggers have used to purify their biodiesel. Seems to me a broad spectrum of diesel engine performance might occur in the same engine based on purity. Trip Overholt Sustainable Living ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Carpenter Photography" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:35 PM Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines Beware... long post follows concerning use of biodiesel in high percent blends in modern diesel engines: After exchanging emails with a number of individuals on this list and spending far too long reading hundreds of postings in many different diesel forums I've gleaned some knowledge that I'd like to share. So with suitable skepticism on your part, here it goes: I've been running biodiesel blends from B20 up to B90 in my 2005 Ford F250 Powerstroke 6.0 engine for most of the summer (over 6,500 miles on BD in various blends, hundreds on B90). I recently purchased a 2006 Jetta with the PD-TDI motor for my family. I was about to begin using a B50 blend in the new Jetta when I asked a question last week on the list concerning polymerization in high psi injector systems. It turns out that polymerization seems to be a typical "web tale" that no one can substantiate but failures of sensors and pump motors in the new PD-TDI do seem to occur, over time, when running high blends of BD. I wanted to find out why because I wanted to eventually get to B100 in both my vehicles. In some cases it seemed that the failure was simply a case of bad biodiesel (emulsified, high water content, etc.) But in other cases the biodiesel seemed to be quality stuff. Hopefully what I've gleaned will help someone: You probably have heard of the ASTM 6571 specification for biodiesel. The ASTM D-6571 spec for biodiesel is a specification for B100 _blended_ with petrodiesel up to B20 (20%). Simply having ASTM spec'd fuel does not mean it's suitable as a NEAT (pure) fuel source. Modern diesel engines are designed for ASTM D-975 which is the specification for petrodiesel. Now biodiesel will of course combust in any compression ignition engine but it's physical characteristics differ from the 975 specification that modern diesel engines ARE DESIGNED to burn. One of the most notable physical differences between petrodiesel and biodiesel is viscosity. D-975 specifies a viscosity between 1.9 - 4.1. The 6751 spec specifies 4.1 - 6.0 . That is quite a difference. New ULS diesel comes in at the low end of the 975 spec (1.9). While most biodiesel comes in between 4.2 - 5.0 (depending on feedstock source). You can see that if your trying to inject biodiesel in near pure form you are trying to compress a liquid that is near 2.5x as viscous as what the injection system was designed for. In older motors with lower injection pressures, designed for dirtier high sulfur fuel this doesn't seem to be an issue but in modern diesels with very high injection pressures and microscopic injector nozzle openings it becomes important. The mechanical forces on the injector and pump are multiplied. Apparently as fuel approaches it's cloud point the viscosity numbers climb much higher (I haven't seen any hard numbers but it's logical). It's not just a matter of worrying that your fuel filter gets clogged with wax crystals., Far before the cloud point the injector pump may be exposed to pressures that are triple it's design spec due to increased viscosity. That will result in the extra load being transmitted to the pump armature or cam bearing lobe (in the case of the PD-TDI). Physical internal pressures on the injector itself will go up dramatically as well. Keep in mind all of this is arm chair engineering but it's also logical. My point in all this is that we need to be aware that modern diesel engines are designed for different physical characteristics of the fuel than biodiesel possesses, especially in regard to viscosity and that we need to be careful with our blends. The vehicle manufacturers may be testing their engines for compatibility with biodiesel but the engines that are being sold in new cars and trucks today are not "designed" for biodiesel. Blends up to B5 are obviously safe because the conservative industry is supporting it. I'm not aware of any official support from any manufacturer for B20 but it's probably on it's way. Above a B20 blend use common sense. If you're running a PD-TDI with extremely high psi unit injectors and microscopic injector nozzle holes don't expect it to work forever at a limit for which it wasn't designed. Anecdotal information will be helpful in making up your mind... so and so has run their xyz engine for 20,000 miles on B100 so I can to... who knows what wear is taking place in that motor. VW began selling the PD (pump dusse) TDI motor in the US in 2004 vehicles. The high pressure Ford Powerstroke 6.0 came out in 2003. Older VW TDI engines had injector pressures of around 16,000psi rather than 26,000psi, similar specs between old versus new Powerstroke engines. Personally I feel that the HEUI designs like the Powerstroke will be more forgiving because the injector pump is a bay of high pressure oil where the pressure is transmitted to each injector through a 7-1 ratio plunger. Any pressure overload only occurs inside the injector body itself, and in the case of the PS 6.0 motor it's injector nozzles are have bigger holes than a VW PD-TDI. The VW PD-TDI has separate injector units for each cylinder powered by a physical pressure exerted by lobes on the camshaft. That sort of direct connection will transmit higher loads all the way back through to the lobe surface without any "give". More potential for overpressure in the injection unit. Also the for reasons that I haven't discovered the new Jetta TDI with the automatic transmission uses smaller injector openings than the manual shift version of the car, so auto transmission TDI drivers should be even more careful. However, I'm not knocking these engine designs. Both engines work wonderfully for the type of fuel they were designed for. Just keep in mind what happens when you raise viscosity of a liquid under pressure you are also raising the pressures. Personally I'm going to continue to run B50 in my Powerstroke 6.0 motor this winter and run B20 in the PD-TDI. As more data becomes available we may find out that the PD-TDI pump unit is over designed and can handle the higher pressures over the life of the engine. I haven't read as much concerning the Jeep Liberty CRD with it's Italian built Detroit Motors engine, but it appears that it's common rail injector system is probably more compatible with higher BD blends than the VW PD-TDI. It's also of note that apparently VW will transition away from the PD motor to a common rail design over the next few years, so that may bode well for future buyers who want to use high blends of biodiesel. New cars are rarely a _wise_ investment but I've made the choice of investing in two of them this year and I'd like to keep them running on as high a percentage of clean, renewable, domestically produced fuel as long as possible without threatening my investments. Hopefully this information is accurate and it will help others of you trying to decide whether to run biodiesel in a new diesel engine or those of you considering whether to purchase an older diesel versus a new one. -Richard- -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com _______________________________________________ Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com Thu Oct 27 09:52:06 2005 From: Patrick.Long at colfaxcorp.com (Long, Patrick) Date: Thu Oct 27 08:52:20 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: Biodiesel use in modern diesel engi nes Message-ID: <05EA7F4ED0E67C4F8651D90A7FA0E8CF01FBB905@SUSMNREX001.colfaxpumpgroup.com> I'll have to agree with Mark on this one. There may be some misconception as to what is meant by the term "viscosity". A fluid does not have one viscosity value. Its viscosity value follows a curve based on pressure and temperature (at least for a Newtonian fluid). By heating "fuels" that follow a lower viscosity curve then petroleum diesel, you can raise this curve and "trick" the engine into thinking that it is running on diesel. This is great if you are running an old mechanically injected system. But, on a newer computer injected system, the computer running the injection system is much more sophisticated, and harder to "trick". I believe the newer systems monitor either the temperature and/or the actually viscosity of the fuel being sent through the injection system. When you present it with a fuel that is not "fitting" the temperature/viscosity curve that it is programmed for, it may be getting "confused". This could be the reason for hard starting, and my result in poor emissions. My thoughts are that to get these modern injection systems to run on higher blends of bio-diesel, not only should the fuel be heated (like an SVO system), but the computers may need to be "recalibrated" to respond to a slightly different viscosity curve. Patrick -------------------Mark wrote:---------------- If your info/analysis is correct, it seems like there is a fairly straightforward fix to allow the use of higher biodiesel blends -- heat the fuel to lower the viscosity. A system similar to that used by SVO folks to heat their veggie oil should be able to lower the biodiesel viscosiy to very close to that of petrodiesel. Of course, I wouldn't want to try it out on a brand new car, but it would be worth experimenting on a slightly older TDI. -- Mark ----------------- Richard wrote: ------------- ----stuff deleted ---- Apparently as fuel approaches it's cloud point the viscosity numbers climb much higher (I haven't seen any hard numbers but it's logical). It's not just a matter of worrying that your fuel filter gets clogged with wax crystals., Far before the cloud point the injector pump may be exposed to pressures that are triple it's design spec due to increased viscosity. That will result in the extra load being transmitted to the pump armature or cam bearing lobe (in the case of the PD-TDI). Physical internal pressures on the injector itself will go up dramatically as well. ----------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is intended even if addressed incorrectly. Please delete it from your files if you are not the intended recipient. Thank you for your compliance. From wrenchwench at blast.com Fri Oct 28 16:39:51 2005 From: wrenchwench at blast.com (Rachel Burton) Date: Fri Oct 28 15:39:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Fwd: Biofuel Station Grand Opening References: <6D29349473E22449865356FEE7CE184917572C@CCOGSBS1.ccogdom1.local> Message-ID: <708FF872-DBEF-44C4-A2FC-39C6E600C510@blast.com> > > > Grand Opening of Region?s First Biofuel Stations > > On November 3rd, Ray Thomas Petroleum will hold the grand opening > of two new alternative fuels stations in the region. These are > located in Charlotte and Statesville and represent the first > biofuel stations in the region. Both stations will offer customers > alternative fuels, including E85, E10 and Biodiesel. > > Our coalition is also planning to celebrate at this opening a Clean > Cities milestone - this fall the Department of Energy?s Clean > Cities Program is celebrating the passing of the 1 billion gallon > mark of gasoline displaced by Clean Cities activities. This > celebration highlights some of the ways we can reduce our > dependence on foreign oil while also making the important > connection between public health and air quality. > > We would like to invite you to attend both of these events to help > us welcome biofuels to the region. > > Charlotte Grand Opening: Nov. 3rd, 10:00 am > > Fuel Land #2 > 10222 Johnston Road > Charlotte, NC 28210 > > > Statesville Grand Opening: Nov. 3rd, 2:00 pm > > Homer's Truck Stop of Statesville > 306 Stamey Farm Rd > Statesville, NC 28677 > > If you have any question please contact Sarah Niess from the > Centralina Clean Fuels Coalition at sniess@centralina.org. For > more information about biofuels visit www.4cleanfuels.com. > > > PLEASE JOIN US ON NOVEMBER 3RD! From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Sat Oct 29 10:24:54 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Sat Oct 29 09:24:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines In-Reply-To: <20051027174953.7470.qmail@web60623.mail.yahoo.com> References: <003e01c5dae4$1d8fa900$06c56bd1@Snowcamp1> <20051027174953.7470.qmail@web60623.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510290624g2bd1fd8fg5178e526e0c0c333@mail.gmail.com> Here are some specifics on modern injector operation: Snippet from http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/injector.htm ----------------- When the injector solenoid is actuated, it opens a poppet valve which allows high pressure oil to flow into the intensifier piston. The intensifier piston is forced down, pressurizing the fuel inside the injector. When fuel pressure inside the injector reaches approximatly 2700 psi, it causes the injector pintle to rise off its seat and fuel is injected into the cylinder from the nozzel. As long as the poppet valve is open and oil is flowing into the injector, fuel will be injected. The computer controls how long the injector solenoid is energized (pulse-width, or time on in milliseconds), but it also determines the pressure of the fuel being injected by controlling the pressure of the oil (IPR duty-cycle, or the percentage of time on vs. off--AKA dwell) in the cylinder heads. The computer determines this based on engine load and driver demand by monitoring various sensors. Since the cavity at the top of the intensifier piston is seven times the size of the fuel cavity at the bottom, fuel is injected at a pressure seven times that of the computer-controlled oil pressure--oil pressure 3000 psi = injected fuel pressure 21000 psi. ------------------- (note this is for the older 7.3L PS some minor differences exist in the injector function of the 6.0L PSD) Also note from threads in thedieselstop forum that the timing for the injection is determined by when the pintle rises and breaks the circuit due to the pressure rise (begin injection) to the point at which the solenoid closes off the HP oil from the intensifier piston. So the computer knows the duration of the injection but it can't know the volume. It must assume volume from a map of fuel/temp and the D-975 spec for viscosity. So as you surmise higher viscosity may cause the injector to fire prematurely and consequently not as much fuel will be delivered as the ICM assumes, resulting in decreased performance (which I've noticed while towing in the PSD). I don't have such details for the PD-TDI injectors so I don't know if the injector fires based on pressure or some other means. Some people running BD in PSD report better than petrodiesel mpg but that may be the case of less fuel making it through the injector (due to viscosity) and resultant lower engine performance (kind of de-rates the engine). But overpressure conditions may manifest because design assumptions still apply. Even if the injector fires early because the minimum pressure is reached too soon an overpressure condition could develop at higher engine loads. Anyway these are all untestable assumptions (by me) but they could explain some behaviors I see in the PSD and other see in the PD-TDI motors at high blend levels. Some users of B100 in PD-TDI motors have reported absolutely terrible drops in performance from the motor when it's pushed hard but then report things return to normal under reduced load. It could be due to fuel starvation because not enough fuel can be squeezed through the microscopic injector openings (following snippet from TDICLUB FAQ): --------------------------- If you have a vehicle with a 90hp TDI and 5-speed manual transmission, you have injectors with 0.184mm orifices. If you have a 90hp TDI with automatic transmission in North America, you have injectors with 0.158mm orifices and a higher-pressure injector pump so as to push the same amount of fuel through these smaller injectors (for emissions reasons, at a cost of increased stress on the components and increased engine noise) --------------------------- Are there any mechanical engineers in the audience who can do to the math to determine the max flow through those injector openings across various fluid viscosities @21,000-26,000psi ? Always learning... -Richard- On 10/27/05, Patrick Sells wrote: > > > > > I have been watching the list but never written. Some questins for thought, I have little background in this so please correct me if i'm wrong. > > On fuel viscosity vs. internal pump pressure/stress, how are the injectors on the newer computer timed/injected engines set to discharge? Is it electronically timed to fire the injector or is it based on fuel pressure from the injection pump? It would also depend where the computer ties in to the injection process at the pump or at the injector? > > If as in gas engines, the fuel pump maintains a proper static pressure in the line and the computer opens/fires the injector at the proper time, my point only applies to older mechanical engines. > > In the old mechanical injection systems, the injectors fire fuel into the cylinders when they reach a specific fuel line pressure set by a spring valve within the injector itself. In the older cummins B series engines, and others if they operate on this principle, it wouldn't so much be an issue of increased injection system pressures but an issue of engine timing and inneficiency. The higher viscosity bioD fuel would reach injection pressure prematurely and be discharged into the cylinder before the piston is in the correct position to accept fuel. This could cause increased wear and loss of power as the engine would be fighting against itself combusting before the piston reached the top of its stroke. > > Pat > > > -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From alizard at ecis.com Sat Oct 29 19:31:38 2005 From: alizard at ecis.com (A.Lizard) Date: Sat Oct 29 22:25:43 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re:Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines In-Reply-To: <20051027104945.A8CE9CE68C@mail2.blast.com> References: <20051027104945.A8CE9CE68C@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.1.20051029183019.041c20d0@mail.ecis.com> At 03:49 AM 10/27/05, you wrote: Can biodiesel be reformulated for lower fuel viscosity so it can be used safely without blending with petroleum diesel? A.Lizard >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:35:10 -0400 >From: Richard Carpenter Photography >To: biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines >Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510251935l6c816e5u8b64e14185b2ac9a@mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Precedence: list >Message: 1 > >Beware... long post follows concerning use of biodiesel in high >percent blends in modern diesel engines: > >After exchanging emails with a number of individuals on this list and >spending far too long reading hundreds of postings in many different >diesel forums I've gleaned some knowledge that I'd like to share. > >So with suitable skepticism on your part, here it goes: > >I've been running biodiesel blends from B20 up to B90 in my 2005 Ford >F250 Powerstroke 6.0 engine for most of the summer (over 6,500 miles >on BD in various blends, hundreds on B90). I recently purchased a >2006 Jetta with the PD-TDI motor for my family. I was about to begin >using a B50 blend in the new Jetta when I asked a question last week >on the list concerning polymerization in high psi injector systems. > >It turns out that polymerization seems to be a typical "web tale" that >no one can substantiate but failures of sensors and pump motors in the >new PD-TDI do seem to occur, over time, when running high blends of >BD. I wanted to find out why because I wanted to eventually get to >B100 in both my vehicles. In some cases it seemed that the failure >was simply a case of bad biodiesel (emulsified, high water content, >etc.) But in other cases the biodiesel seemed to be quality stuff. > >Hopefully what I've gleaned will help someone: > >You probably have heard of the ASTM 6571 specification for biodiesel.=20 >The ASTM D-6571 spec for biodiesel is a specification for B100 >_blended_ with petrodiesel up to B20 (20%). Simply having ASTM spec'd >fuel does not mean it's suitable as a NEAT (pure) fuel source. Modern >diesel engines are designed for ASTM D-975 which is the specification >for petrodiesel. Now biodiesel will of course combust in any >compression ignition engine but it's physical characteristics differ >from the 975 specification that modern diesel engines ARE DESIGNED to >burn. One of the most notable physical differences between >petrodiesel and biodiesel is viscosity. D-975 specifies a viscosity >between 1.9 - 4.1. The 6751 spec specifies 4.1 - 6.0 . That is quite >a difference. New ULS diesel comes in at the low end of the 975 spec >(1.9). While most biodiesel comes in between 4.2 - 5.0 (depending on >feedstock source). You can see that if your trying to inject >biodiesel in near pure form you are trying to compress a liquid that >is near 2.5x as viscous as what the injection system was designed for. > In older motors with lower injection pressures, designed for dirtier >high sulfur fuel this doesn't seem to be an issue but in modern >diesels with very high injection pressures and microscopic injector >nozzle openings it becomes important. The mechanical forces on the >injector and pump are multiplied. > >Apparently as fuel approaches it's cloud point the viscosity numbers >climb much higher (I haven't seen any hard numbers but it's logical).=20 >It's not just a matter of worrying that your fuel filter gets clogged >with wax crystals., Far before the cloud point the injector pump may >be exposed to pressures that are triple it's design spec due to >increased viscosity. That will result in the extra load being >transmitted to the pump armature or cam bearing lobe (in the case of >the PD-TDI). Physical internal pressures on the injector itself will >go up dramatically as well. > >Keep in mind all of this is arm chair engineering but it's also logical. > >My point in all this is that we need to be aware that modern diesel >engines are designed for different physical characteristics of the >fuel than biodiesel possesses, especially in regard to viscosity and >that we need to be careful with our blends. The vehicle manufacturers >may be testing their engines for compatibility with biodiesel but the >engines that are being sold in new cars and trucks today are not >"designed" for biodiesel. Blends up to B5 are obviously safe because >the conservative industry is supporting it. I'm not aware of any >official support from any manufacturer for B20 but it's probably on >it's way. Above a B20 blend use common sense. If you're running a >PD-TDI with extremely high psi unit injectors and microscopic injector >nozzle holes don't expect it to work forever at a limit for which it >wasn't designed. Anecdotal information will be helpful in making up >your mind... so and so has run their xyz engine for 20,000 miles on >B100 so I can to... who knows what wear is taking place in that motor. > VW began selling the PD (pump dusse) TDI motor in the US in 2004 >vehicles. The high pressure Ford Powerstroke 6.0 came out in 2003.=20 >Older VW TDI engines had injector pressures of around 16,000psi rather >than 26,000psi, similar specs between old versus new Powerstroke >engines. > >Personally I feel that the HEUI designs like the Powerstroke will be >more forgiving because the injector pump is a bay of high pressure oil >where the pressure is transmitted to each injector through a 7-1 ratio >plunger. Any pressure overload only occurs inside the injector body >itself, and in the case of the PS 6.0 motor it's injector nozzles are >have bigger holes than a VW PD-TDI. The VW PD-TDI has separate >injector units for each cylinder powered by a physical pressure >exerted by lobes on the camshaft. That sort of direct connection will >transmit higher loads all the way back through to the lobe surface >without any "give". More potential for overpressure in the injection >unit. Also the for reasons that I haven't discovered the new Jetta >TDI with the automatic transmission uses smaller injector openings >than the manual shift version of the car, so auto transmission TDI >drivers should be even more careful. > >However, I'm not knocking these engine designs. Both engines work >wonderfully for the type of fuel they were designed for. Just keep in >mind what happens when you raise viscosity of a liquid under pressure >you are also raising the pressures. > >Personally I'm going to continue to run B50 in my Powerstroke 6.0 >motor this winter and run B20 in the PD-TDI. As more data becomes >available we may find out that the PD-TDI pump unit is over designed >and can handle the higher pressures over the life of the engine. I >haven't read as much concerning the Jeep Liberty CRD with it's Italian >built Detroit Motors engine, but it appears that it's common rail >injector system is probably more compatible with higher BD blends than >the VW PD-TDI. It's also of note that apparently VW will transition >away from the PD motor to a common rail design over the next few >years, so that may bode well for future buyers who want to use high >blends of biodiesel. > >New cars are rarely a _wise_ investment but I've made the choice of >investing in two of them this year and I'd like to keep them running >on as high a percentage of clean, renewable, domestically produced >fuel as long as possible without threatening my investments. > >Hopefully this information is accurate and it will help others of you >trying to decide whether to run biodiesel in a new diesel engine or >those of you considering whether to purchase an older diesel versus a >new one. > >-Richard- > >-- >http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com >------------------------------ member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild. "The responsibility of government for the public safety is absolute and requires no mandate. It is in fact, the prime object for which governments come into existence." Winston Churchill - 9/1936 - speech to the UK Parliament Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard business Website http://www.reptilelabs.com backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard@gmail.com PGP 8.0 key available by request or keyserver. Download PGP from: http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy. Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html ***Looking for INTELLIGENT new technology public policy alternatives?*** http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/technology.html From leif at biofuels.coop Sun Oct 30 14:13:39 2005 From: leif at biofuels.coop (Leif Forer) Date: Sun Oct 30 14:14:04 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] ACTION ALERT - Renewable Energy Instead of New Coal and Nuke Plants in NC Message-ID: <00ca6cf6a4bb8344cf9b1ca5538c5233@biofuels.coop> Dear biofuels enthusiasts~ You may be aware the Duke Power and Progress Energy are trying to get licenses from the state to build new nuclear and old-style coal fired power plants, including a new nuke in Chatham. If you'd rather see more efficient, economic, even renewable options explored first please consider calling the Utilities Commission chair to let her know. HELP START A SWITCH TO ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN NORTH CAROLINA On October 4, 2005, the North Carolina Sustainable Energy Association requested that the North Carolina Utilities Commission open a docket (a formal proceeding) on energy efficiency and conservation BEFORE they consider any requests to build new power plants. Please add your voice and muscle to this effort by writing or calling the Chair of the N.C. Utilities Commission and letting her know that you prefer energy efficiency and conservation as the least expensive and quickest ways to provide new resources to meet North Carolina's growing electric demand. Efficiency and conservation yield the biggest bang for the buck to reduce consumer's utility bills and eliminate the economic and environmentally damaging consequences of new fossil fuel and nuclear power generation. Calls or letters should be made during the first two weeks of November. Chair Jo Anne Sanford North Carolina Utilities Commission 4325 Mail Service Center Raleigh NC 27699-4325 Phone: (919)733-4249 Fax: (919)733-7300 For more information contact Richard Harkrader, Policy Chair NCSEA, rharkrader@mindspring.com ~leif --------------------------- Leif Forer Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop (919) 321-8260 From mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu Sun Oct 30 23:37:50 2005 From: mambrose at alumni.princeton.edu (Mark Ambrose) Date: Sun Oct 30 23:29:32 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines In-Reply-To: <4e961f6b0510290624g2bd1fd8fg5178e526e0c0c333@mail.gmail.com> References: <003e01c5dae4$1d8fa900$06c56bd1@Snowcamp1> <20051027174953.7470.qmail@web60623.mail.yahoo.com> <4e961f6b0510290624g2bd1fd8fg5178e526e0c0c333@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43659F9E.2000109@alumni.princeton.edu> If the aim is to maximize the proportion of biodiesel without damaging your engine, I wonder if using a biodiesel - #1 petrodiesel blend would be better than the more typical biodiesel - #2 diesel blend. #1 diesel (essentially kerosene) is less viscous than #2 diesel, so one should be able to blend in a higher proportion of biodiesel with it and still have an acceptable viscosity to the blend. However, straight undyed #1 diesel can be hard to come by. -- Mark From biasjo at yadtel.net Mon Oct 31 08:19:55 2005 From: biasjo at yadtel.net (John Bias) Date: Mon Oct 31 08:19:47 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Re: Biofuels_Interest_Group Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 References: <20051030191413.95AF3D5144@mail2.blast.com> Message-ID: <002101c5de1d$c900ae10$0a01a8c0@thejys5qzym2dk> Hi, I don't know a darn thing about viscosity or anything else for that matter. I have a '05 PSD 6.0 with the Superchip 1704 fuel map running on it. Maybe this addresses some of the questions about fuel maps. I run B100 from the start and put the 1704 on about 20,000 miles. I get tons of torque and no lag as well as no slow starts. Maybe you could invest $300.00 in a 1704 and kick up your peformance Yes they have a Tow mode also for anything over 8,000 lbs. I do not have any problems with Tranny overheat nore EGT overheat. Just my 2 Cents John From richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 09:00:43 2005 From: richard.c.carpenter at gmail.com (Richard Carpenter Photography) Date: Mon Oct 31 09:00:45 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Biodiesel use in modern diesel engines In-Reply-To: <43659F9E.2000109@alumni.princeton.edu> References: <003e01c5dae4$1d8fa900$06c56bd1@Snowcamp1> <20051027174953.7470.qmail@web60623.mail.yahoo.com> <4e961f6b0510290624g2bd1fd8fg5178e526e0c0c333@mail.gmail.com> <43659F9E.2000109@alumni.princeton.edu> Message-ID: <4e961f6b0510310600v47f32526p727445c73fc77bf4@mail.gmail.com> Diesel #1 is a poor fuel and contains even less energy than B100. An additive package would probably be a better solution. On 10/30/05, Mark Ambrose wrote: > If the aim is to maximize the proportion of biodiesel without damaging > your engine, I wonder if using a biodiesel - #1 petrodiesel blend would > be better than the more typical biodiesel - #2 diesel blend. #1 diesel > (essentially kerosene) is less viscous than #2 diesel, so one should be > able to blend in a higher proportion of biodiesel with it and still have > an acceptable viscosity to the blend. However, straight undyed #1 > diesel can be hard to come by. > > -- Mark > > -- http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com From evan at biofuels.coop Mon Oct 31 11:43:30 2005 From: evan at biofuels.coop (Evan Ashworth) Date: Mon Oct 31 11:43:31 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Cold Flow Thread In-Reply-To: <4e961f6b0510310600v47f32526p727445c73fc77bf4@mail.gmail.com> References: <003e01c5dae4$1d8fa900$06c56bd1@Snowcamp1> <20051027174953.7470.qmail@web60623.mail.yahoo.com> <4e961f6b0510290624g2bd1fd8fg5178e526e0c0c333@mail.gmail.com> <43659F9E.2000109@alumni.princeton.edu> <4e961f6b0510310600v47f32526p727445c73fc77bf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a13a713656e355d706ac53ca32044db@biofuels.coop> #1 diesel (kerosene) may be a poor fuel, but it's a better additive if cold flow is your concern. At the NBB conference back in February I had a conversation with the guy who runs the biggest biodiesel distribution company in wintery Chicago, and they rely on 20% kerosene to keep things flowing. From what I've gathered, B90 should be sufficient for NC's climate, and a 10% blend of either #1 or #2 diesel should get the job done on all but the worst cold snaps. I guess this winter will be the real-world test! -Evan Piedmont Biofuels On Oct 31, 2005, at 9:00 AM, Richard Carpenter Photography wrote: > Diesel #1 is a poor fuel and contains even less energy than B100. An > additive package would probably be a better solution. > > On 10/30/05, Mark Ambrose wrote: >> If the aim is to maximize the proportion of biodiesel without damaging >> your engine, I wonder if using a biodiesel - #1 petrodiesel blend >> would >> be better than the more typical biodiesel - #2 diesel blend. #1 >> diesel >> (essentially kerosene) is less viscous than #2 diesel, so one should >> be >> able to blend in a higher proportion of biodiesel with it and still >> have >> an acceptable viscosity to the blend. However, straight undyed #1 >> diesel can be hard to come by. >> >> -- Mark >> >> > > > -- > http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com > _______________________________________________ > Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list > Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net > http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From dentonconrad at netzero.net Mon Oct 31 10:43:24 2005 From: dentonconrad at netzero.net (Denton) Date: Mon Oct 31 12:06:56 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Honda's HCCI Engine Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20051031104132.00c4a198@pop.netzero.net> Honda Making Significant Progress on HCCI Engine for Hybrid Application Theoretically it can operate using a variety of fuels: gasoline, diesel, natural gas, biofuels, or hydrogen. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/10/honda_making_si.html From hkfbo at hotmail.com Mon Oct 31 12:07:41 2005 From: hkfbo at hotmail.com (Bo Lozoff) Date: Mon Oct 31 12:07:45 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Cold Flow Thread In-Reply-To: <3a13a713656e355d706ac53ca32044db@biofuels.coop> Message-ID: Last year we used less than 10% kerosene -- about a gallon in a 15-gal tank of fuel, and found no problems starting our vehicles at all. A 10% blend should be the most anyone in our area needs. >From: Evan Ashworth >To: Richard Carpenter Photography >CC: Mark Ambrose , >biofuels_interest_group@lists.emji.net >Subject: Re: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] Cold Flow Thread >Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:43:30 -0500 > >#1 diesel (kerosene) may be a poor fuel, but it's a better additive if cold >flow is your concern. At the NBB conference back in February I had a >conversation with the guy who runs the biggest biodiesel distribution >company in wintery Chicago, and they rely on 20% kerosene to keep things >flowing. > >From what I've gathered, B90 should be sufficient for NC's climate, and a >10% blend of either #1 or #2 diesel should get the job done on all but the >worst cold snaps. I guess this winter will be the real-world test! > >-Evan >Piedmont Biofuels > > >On Oct 31, 2005, at 9:00 AM, Richard Carpenter Photography wrote: > >>Diesel #1 is a poor fuel and contains even less energy than B100. An >>additive package would probably be a better solution. >> >>On 10/30/05, Mark Ambrose wrote: >>>If the aim is to maximize the proportion of biodiesel without damaging >>>your engine, I wonder if using a biodiesel - #1 petrodiesel blend would >>>be better than the more typical biodiesel - #2 diesel blend. #1 diesel >>>(essentially kerosene) is less viscous than #2 diesel, so one should be >>>able to blend in a higher proportion of biodiesel with it and still have >>>an acceptable viscosity to the blend. However, straight undyed #1 >>>diesel can be hard to come by. >>> >>>-- Mark >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>http://RichardCarpenterPhotography.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >>Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >>http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuels_Interest_Group mailing list >Biofuels_Interest_Group@lists.emji.net >http://lists.emji.net/mailman/listinfo/biofuels_interest_group From cliffhollis at mac.com Mon Oct 31 22:52:02 2005 From: cliffhollis at mac.com (Cliff Hollis) Date: Wed Nov 2 16:25:43 2005 Subject: [Biofuels_Interest_Group] SVO WVO conversions Message-ID: I am in Greenville NC and am looking to acquire a couple of diesels in the next few months and am looking for someone to do the WVO conversions. Anyone out there doing this? I am also considering a Suzuki Samurai conversion to diesel with a VW engine. Anyone doing anything like this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Cliff Hollis